In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about recent items in the news, and dive deep into analyzing 2 articles that are very critical of MAPS’ involvement with the police, military, and government.
They first discuss Canada-based nonprofit TheraPsil’s recent win of four people with incurable cancer being granted the ability to use psilocybin for end-of-life therapy, and how this framework could be copied and used in the US through the Right-to-try act, signed into law in 2018.
They then discuss Dimitri Mugianis’s recent article in Salon, which highlighted the long history of psychedelics being used in negative ways, from Vikings presumably using some sort of mushroom to get to a pillaging, “Berserker warrior” mindstate, to the 11th century Nizari Isma’ili State, which reportedly used hashish as a tool for motivation and control, to MKUltra and experiments on Whitey Bulger, to the most recent death of Elijah McLain from a large forced injection of ketamine. And they discuss David Nickles’s article in Psymposia, which poses that since MAPS is working to provide treatment to police and soldiers with PTSD, they are essentially in bed with the enemy, and only promoting organizations that create more violence, division, trauma, and PTSD, while treating the perpetrators instead of the victims.
Both articles are critical of MAPS but neglect to see the importance of diplomacy and working to see eye to eye with people in disagreement for the greater good- that yes, these tools can be used against people, but can also be used by people, with immense benefits. Joe reads a comment sent in by listener Danny McCraken, pointing out that “as the saying goes, ‘only Siths deal in absolutes.’” This leads to more discussion: when and how should ketamine be used for submission? Why do healthy, trained cops need to even get to that point? How much of this is just governments trying to make the costs of war cheaper? Why don’t more people see things from all sides?
Lastly, they remind us that on September 17th, 2 new rounds of (now CE-approved) Navigating Psychedelics will be starting up, and there is a new class for sale developed with Johanna Hilla-Maria Sopanen called “Imagination as Revelation,” which focuses on Jungian psychology and how it can be applied to understanding psychedelic experience.
Notable quotes
“I remember when we chatted with Dr. Katherine MacLean way, way back when we first got it rolling. Something that she said- ‘it’s almost like a birthright for us to try to prepare for death. And do we have to wait to have some sort of end-of-life illness, or can we start trying to prepare a little bit earlier?’ Just really awesome to see that these 4 patients will be able to have an experience and maybe discover things about themselves during their last time here. So congrats TheraPsil for making that work for these folks.” -Kyle
“From the anarchist perspective, this just helps governments, which are typically organizations that have monopolies on power (what anarchists are against, primarily). So any kind of government that’s using tools against people is bad, and these are tools that are being used against people. They’re also being used for people. It’s this weird dichotomy of: these things have such huge healing benefit for so many different types of people, and they can also be used to support things that are against people, like any tool. Like a knife or a gun- it can be used to save a life or take a life.” -Joe
“Is this what we want? Last episode, we talked a lot about decriminalization vs. legalization, and we didn’t really talk about how that contrasts with medicalization. Do we really want these powerful people in groups telling you when you can and cannot take these things? I think the answer is no. We don’t want that. We want autonomy. We want cognitive liberty. We want to not go to jail for this stuff. We want safe access.” -Joe
“Essentially, the critique is that MAPS is supporting cops (PTSD) and soldiers (PTSD), and as a result, MAPS is supporting violent organizations that are causing more PTSD, and treating the perpetrators vs. treating the victims. I understand why they would write this article, but I think it’s not done in good taste. I think it’s not necessarily aware of the broader implications of these things coming to market and being prescribable and healing a lot of people. But it is helpful in that it says, ‘Look, cops are doing bad stuff. Military has done bad stuff. Should we be supporting it?’ …How do we balance those two things? …I think MAPS is almost at the finish line, so I’m going to cheerlead for MAPS to finish [and] cross the line with MDMA, even though they’re kind of pandering to the militarized people who have a monopoly on violence, both inside and outside of the country.” -Joe
In today’s episode, Joe speaks with spiritual coach, author, and creator of the upcoming High Together app, John Selby. Selby’s most recent book is titled Cannabis for Couples: Enhance Intimacy and Elevate Your Relationship.
Selby talks about how he got to where he is today, from signing up for a hypnosis research center at Princeton that turned out to be a secret government NIH psychedelic research center studying if psychedelic states could be induced through hypnosis, to working on the first quantitative EG study of heavy LSD users to determine if it caused permanent damage (that was marred with corrupted data and later found out to have been an MKUltra mind manipulation project), to becoming excommunicated by the Presbyterian church for teaching his youth group yoga and Buddhist meditation, to becoming a therapist, spiritual counselor and author, to his time at Microsoft and Plantronics leading to him wanting to create an app for improving cannabis use.
His High Together app (which should be available soon) works in conjunction with his latest book to help cannabis users focus their attention, augment consciousness, and in the case of couples, improve their relationships. Through short guided sessions, statements of intent, and a strong emphasis on breathwork, his goal is to help regular users aim their attention towards more rewarding ventures, and help new users get through their first cannabis experiences safely and enjoyably (some estimate that 10 million boomer couples will try cannabis for the first time within the next 2-3 years).
Notable Quotes
On leaving Plantronics: “Right when it was time to do the funding and to launch this as their first software product in your headphones, two people on the board- these two old guys- Presbyterian guys- they decided that I was some sort of subterfuge revolutionary trying to undermine American capitalism. And I had to say, ‘I think you’ve got that just about right.’”
On his High Together App: “It’s everything that I’ve found, as a therapist and spiritual guide, that’s really, really effective for helping people to focus their attention in directions that augment higher consciousness. We can either get stoned, or we can get high, and people don’t realize that really, they have the choice.”
“Most of the people, they really need help in the basics. It’s very scary for most people. If you’re 60 years old and you’ve never basically let go of control of your ego, it’s like ‘WHOA!’ I’m there to help people make it safely and enjoyably through that first 10 minutes, when you actually have the muse of marijuana come in and say ‘Okay, here we go! Let go- there’s nothing you can do about this, so enjoy the ride.’”
“There’s a pretty sober sense of responsibility that we really have a world civilization that can really self destruct if we don’t wake up and act. I think that cannabis and psychedelics are powerful medicines to help us in that direction.”
John is both a fiction and non-fiction author with over thirty published self-help/meditation books plus eleven feature screenplays and half a dozen novels and 40 published folk-jazz songs. John’s most recent book is titled Cannabis for Couples: Enhance Intimacy and Elevate Your Relationship. Over the years he has been a cognitive therapist and spiritual counselor, and conducted NIH brain-research studies examining the inner mechanics of mindfulness meditation. John has taught creative writing and publishing strategies, coached authors in book-project development, and ghostwritten over a dozen books for aspiring authors on a wide variety of themes and genres. He now continues with this satisfying work, while also developing a new app-driven approach to mindfulness training and personality growth.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to discuss recent topics in the news and analyze the ongoing debate of decriminalization vs. legalization.
They first discuss the story of LSD chemist William Leonard Pickard, who was released from prison on July 27th due mostly to his age, health status and risk for contracting Covid-19, and while it’s great that he’s out, how it changes nothing about the conspiracy surrounding his arrest (“Halperngate”) and the very questionable DEA claims of LSD availability decreasing by 95% after his imprisonment.
They then talk about Denver mushroom grower Kole Milner, who is facing up to 20 years in prison and a $1 million fine, and all the complications surrounding state or city legality vs. federal legality, and how anyone in this space should be extremely careful about what personal information they share publicly, regardless of any perceived legal safety.
This leads to a long discussion about decriminalization vs. legalization: the need for more conversation, what the model might look like for the US, what we can learn from Portugal, how Covid-related economic issues might influence things, the “my drug is better than your drug” issue with advertising, the problem with D.A.R.E.’s “scare you straight” model and the need for truth instead of manipulation, and how advertising and corporate profit incentives may come into play- does legality mean that companies will try to convince more people to use these powerful medicines irresponsibly?
Notable quotes
“It’s a false dichotomy to just say ‘decriminalization vs. legalization.’ As we say, decriminalization doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It can mean something for a municipality or a county or a state but it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the case for the feds. And as soon as you’re crossing state lines, that’s when they can be really into it. But realistically, the DEA seems to have plenty of power to do whatever they want.” -Joe
“I remember a few years ago, I started making this comment: ‘Oh cool, so you want it to stay illegal so you can have your heady, farm-to-table LSD. Cute, but that’s not really how it works and there’s plenty of people getting hurt as a result of not having these controls in place.’ …It just takes a couple high schoolers whipping up a shitty lab, or non-safety-oriented people just trying to make a quick buck to get a few people hurt. I want to be a libertarian, but I don’t necessarily trust people’s motives enough to fully be a libertarian. I feel like there needs to be incentive structures in place and regulation in place for a lot of things.” -Joe
“I remember them threatening us: ‘If you do this, we will come and arrest you.’ Like, whoa… What if you had somebody that was like, “Hey, psilocybin mushrooms- these were originally used in ceremonial contexts, they had these kinds of safety mechanisms built in place, and this is what’s going on, here are the risks and dangers, this is why you would want to do it in a situation like this, people are using it to find spiritual growth…” And I don’t know, is that more enticing to people? Like, “Oh. I’m really curious!” But at least when they would practice, hopefully, they’d be like, “Oh yea, remember, they told us to do it in this context” instead of being like “This is an illegal thing, we’re going to get arrested so let’s hide and do it in secrecy and not tell anybody about it because the police chief is going to kick down my door and arrest me and tell me I’m a bad person.” -Kyle
“Let’s just be fact-based. Like, ‘Ok, here are the laws, here’s where it comes from, here’s the history, here are the pluses and minuses, and here are the legal consequences at this point in time.’ I would just like the facts, you know? I don’t need to be manipulated. Because that’s all I felt it was- a manipulation of the truth and a manipulation of us. This is not science-based policy, and I think a lot of us now want science-based policy.” -Joe
In today’s episode, Kyle interviews Lauren Taus: yoga instructor with 20 years of experience, host of the Inbodied Life podcast, and psychotherapist specializing in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.
Taus talks about growing tired of more traditional therapy and cognitive loops so many people find themselves in through cognitive behavioral therapy leading to her taking a break from therapy altogether, trying psychedelics with her brother, learning of psychedelics being used therapeutically, and coming out of the psychedelic closet to her father (who now works with her). She speaks about her practice, and the process and importance of building up therapeutic relationships first before introducing any psychedelics.
She discusses how Covid-19, cannabis legalization and the way our culture is set up are all exacerbating mental health issues and the challenges of fighting through that while trying to better partner with disadvantaged communities, the frustrations around the illegality of certain medicines, the power of ketamine, the concept of spiritual bypassing, what she’s doing differently during this disconnected time, harm reduction around psychedelics without a therapist nearby, mindfulness, and the importance of touch and dancing.
Notable Quotes
“Healing happens in relationship, and it happens in relationship with self too. I believe that so many people (and I certainly have been one of them) are walking warzones. The violence that happens inside of an individual heart and mind is far more outrageous than what you’d read in the news, and what you read in the news is a lot. …With my work, I want to know you, I want to feel you, I want you to feel safe, I want you to feel love, I want you to feel unconditional regard and care. And that doesn’t happen overnight, and that doesn’t happen when you take a pill.”
“When I think about what’s happening with cannabis now, there’s essentially white cartels, and there’s cannabis stores on every block of Venice Beach, and people making lots and lots of money on weed. And then there’s so many black and brown people in prison for smoking a joint. And so the inequity there- what kind of reparations can we do? I like to say you can’t bypass the ‘fuck you’ on your way to forgiveness. And love is big enough to hold the anger and the rage, and there’s appropriate righteous anger that’s due.”
“People are struggling to be with what is- to welcome the wildlife that courses through their veins, to sit still with their fear and their sadness, and even their joy. I have so many people who try to crush their joy and celebration because they’re afraid of losing it. And they will- it’s going to shift. But can we be in the big wideness of what it is to be human? And in our inability to do so, we create all these different unique and not-so-unique misguided defense mechanisms. All these mechanisms for evasion- flight strategies. They can look like work, they can look like sex and food and drugs and alcohol and running or even meditation. The intention is what informs it a lot- what are you doing? Are you looking to go in, or are you looking to leave?”
“Do your work and remember to play along the way. Joy is an act of resistance.”
Lauren Taus graduated summa cum laude from Barnard College at Columbia University in 2004 with a BA in Religion before continuing on to NYU for her Masters in Social Work. Lauren is licensed as a clinical therapist in both New York and California with a specialty in addiction and trauma treatment.
As a clinician, Lauren integrates alternative modalities of treatment into her work. She trained with David Emerson under the supervision of Bessel van der Kolk at The Trauma Institute in Boston in trauma sensitive yoga, and she’s trained by the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) for MDMA assisted psychotherapy for complex PTSD.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and discuss two news stories emerging from Portland, Oregon- first, paramilitary-like federal agents showing up in unmarked cars and arresting protestors, and second, the beating and pepper-spraying of one of those protestors, Christopher David.
They look at these events from multiple perspectives- what fears are driving the opinions of people who are against these protests? Why does there always seem to be money when it comes to military expenses, but never any money when it comes to the wellbeing of people? How many police officers fully stand behind what they’re doing, and how many are simply following orders or deeming certain evils necessary solely to earn their federal pension?
They analyze systems and better ways forward, like considering a bottom-up approach vs. the standard top-down approach or Ken Wilbur’s framework of transcending an old system while including all the lessons from it. They also discuss decriminalization vs. legalization and the importance of regulation, and the massive scale of concepts and systems, like how MKUltra needs to be included when discussing the history of psychology.
They also discuss telehealth and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and the complications surrounding it right now, from both therapists and clients not wanting to be in an office to the concerns of self-administration at home, to the benefits of self-exploration for those who do feel comfortable and safe engaging on their own. And lastly, they talk about their upcoming Navigating Psychedelics class, which is selling fast and will never be cheaper than it is now.
Notable quotes
“This is illegal, and people seem to forget that it’s illegal. Even if it’s decriminalized in a locality, doesn’t mean the feds can’t come in and shut you down. And that’s why they call me the party pooper.” -Joe
“How many people get into higher systems and institutions with really good intentions [of] wanting to make change, and thinking… “I’m going to change it from the top down.” …What would a ‘bottom-up’ approach be, and how could we give power back to communities to start to create their own change, instead of thinking that we need to change it from these hierarchical systems? I always come back to Bucky Fuller’s quote about just creating a different system- you don’t change a system by trying to change it, you make a new system that’s obsolete to that old way of being. …I’m thinking also too, from the somatic lens in therapy- approaching it more cognitively, intellectually- this whole top-down brain approach vs. a body-oriented approach and working with the trauma, working with the body and thinking about, ok, what’s the body? It’s people, it’s communities. How do we start to work that way?” -Kyle
“I just prefer to see government funds spent on stuff like the green new deal to save us from climate change. Or health care for all- those kinds of things. Why spend to put people in jail, when we could have, just like with cannabis, taxable revenue. I don’t want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just because it’s not equitable, I don’t think that totally excludes the thing. I’d just like to see less people going to jail, less people being harmed by black market drugs, and more clean appropriate drugs available to the people who want them.” -Joe
“How do we have the money to send these paramilitary agents in but you didn’t have the money to produce personal protection equipment for hospitals? What’s going on here?” -Kyle
In this episode, Kyle speaks with Imperial College London research assistant and past guest, Dr. Malin Vedøy Uthaug, who just earned her doctorate and published her dissertation on Ayahuasca and 5-MeO-DMT research.
Uthaug discusses how she started working in this field, why Prague is a good place for research, what past research has led to today, how certain factors could predict whether someone would have a more challenging or more mystical experience, how these experiences can treat people with PTSD differently, what dissociation actually means, the differences between vaporized 5-MeO-DMT and intramuscular 5-MeO-DMT injections and how injections typically lead towards better trauma resolution over the “too much too soon” effects of vaporization. They also talk about reactivation (re-experiencing parts of the 5-MeO-DMT experience at a later time) and why it might happen, how it is different from LSD flashbacks, and how expectations, the experience, and the facilitator all come into play.
They discuss her research and dissertation, which consisted of 2 studies on ayahuasca and 3 on 5-MeO-DMT, focusing on if participants saw improvement in convergent thinking and mental health variables (depression, anxiety and stress), and how her placebo-controlled study revealed that those who received the placebo still saw a marked improvement. This leads to a conclusion that often, context may play a larger role than the medicine- feeling safe and being heard in a ceremonial, community-based setting may be the biggest factor towards healing.
Notable Quotes
“Once you make the unconscious conscious, then you can learn from it, and [it’s not] so much about resisting anymore. Carl Jung says, ‘what you resist persists,’ and what I think is happening, especially with PTSD, is that you’re kind of just holding this ball underwater and it’s not allowed to float to the surface.”
“You need to feel safe, you need to experience being heard and seen. Psychedelics do help us remember things that we have repressed, but obviously, [they] also make us very vulnerable and things might come up. And having somebody witness that and validate those feelings that are expressed and shown can be incredibly healing for people.”
“What we can learn is to learn to sit with difficult emotions and to not push them aside. …I learned that there is comfort in the discomfort. I learned that you can basically figure out so many things about yourself if you just sit with yourself for a moment and you stay in that uncomfortable silence.”
Malin completed her PhD at the department of Neuropsychology and Psychopharmacology, at the faculty of Psychology and Neuroscience at Maastricht University, The Netherlands. As part of her PhD, she investigated the short-term and long-term effects of Ayahuasca and 5-MeO-DMT in naturalistic settings, while simultaneously initiating several other studies on the psychedelic substance Mescaline and the breathing practice known as Holotropic Breathwork (HB). Malin is currently working as a Postdoctoral researcher at The Centre for Psychedelic Research, at Imperial College London, led by Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris. Here she is investigating the effects of 5-MeO-DMT on mental health related variables, brain activity and consciousness together with Dr. Christopher Timmermann. Besides being a researcher, Malin is also an editor for the ‘Journal of Psychedelics Studies’, a board member of the American podcast-show known as Psychedelics Today, and the co-founder of the Norwegian Association for Psychedelic Science (Norsk Forening for Psykedelisk Vitenskap [NFPV]) whose main aim is to educate the general public as well as researchers, and mental health practitioners in Norway about psychedelics.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about various topics in the news and dive deep into somatic psychology.
They first discuss Canadian mushroom life sciences company Cybin Corp’s recent collaboration with drug delivery company IntelGenx to create an orally dissolvable film to administer psilocybin in controlled doses. This feels to them like the early days in the expansion of cannabis offerings, and how, for people with difficulty swallowing or pill-phobia, this may be the best option for psilocybin.
Next, they talk about a recent study of 65 U.S. Special Operations Forces veterans who took Ibogaine on day 1 and 5-MeO-DMT on day 3 (with surrounding processing and integration time) and the amazing results, including most participants rating their psychedelic experiences as one of the top five most personally meaningful and spiritually significant experiences of their lives. Joe brings up a seldom-asked question on whether non-combat veterans should be differentiated from combat veterans in these studies and therapies.
The last article they look at highlights a study where physicians used a new selective‐dose cannabis inhaler to administer microdoses of THC (either .5mg or 1mg) to patients with great results in decreasing pain without affecting cognitive performance. They talk about their experiences with low dose edibles and how they’ve seen great benefits from tiny amounts.
They then discuss many aspects of Kyle’s area of expertise (and often not mentioned in-depth on this podcast), Somatic psychology. They talk about how breathwork and a session with a physical therapist led Kyle to this practice, the concept of character armoring, William Reich’s idea of neurosis being represented throughout the entire organism, how the western mind focuses on the material body, trying to fix things, and technique, how the smallest muscle quivering during a breathwork session can show where work needs to be done, and the difficulty people have in discussing the body- how it’s almost a secret language only learned through experience or their therapist’s suggestive questions on whether they’re feeling a certain emotion or even seeing a color.
Notable quotes
“Thinking about my early years exploring psychedelics, I was so focused on the mind- the experience was outside of me, the knowledge and the wisdom was in the numinous. And that’s where I was going to find all the answers. …It wasn’t until I had my first breathwork experience, where it was such a somatic experience- where I was feeling the experience in my body vs. externalizing my experience outside of my body and viewing it more as this thing of novelty- of something I’ve never experienced before. Actually having that experience and feeling it within myself, [I realized] I have felt this before, and it’s inside of me.” -Kyle
“[Bodywork] just reveals how much is not immediately available in the day-to-day consciousness. There’s so much happening- so much stored in our body that we just don’t even really have a handle on it. …My favorite line (which, I’m starting to feel like I’m cheating) is: “Mind is, at the very least, diffused throughout the body.” -Joe
“As a culture, we’re so body-oriented at times, right? We think about diet, exercise, yoga has turned more into more of an exercise than a lifestyle or practice. …We’re so focused more on the physical, material body than the emotional body, and that’s something that’s really hard to tap into.” -Kyle
“Try not to set out with some of these goals that ‘we need to change this.’ What does it feel like to just maybe feel some of these things?” -Kyle
In today’s episode, Joe interviews Author Mike Crowley to talk about his book, Secret Drugs of Buddhism.
Links
About Mike Crowley
Michael Crowley was born February 26th, 1948 in Cardiff, Wales. He began studying Buddhism with a Tibetan lama in 1966, becoming an upasaka of the Kagyud lineage in 1970. In order to augment his Buddhist studies, he acquainted himself with Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Mandarin Chinese. Mike has lectured at the Museum of Asia and the Pacific, Warsaw, the Jagiellonian University, Cracow, the California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, and at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. His work has been published in Fortean Times, Time and Mind: The Journal of Archaeology, Consciousness, and Culture, Psychedelic American, and Psychedelic Press UK. In January 2016, Mike received the R. Gordon Wasson Award for outstanding contributions to the field of entheobotany. He currently serves on the advisory board of the Psychedelic Sangha, a group of psychedelically-inclined Buddhists, based in New York and he teaches at the Dharma Collective in San Francisco.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about various topics in the news.
They first discuss Rise Wellness (a company focused on teaching people how to microdose psilocybin)’s recent merger with CannaGlobal and Sansero Life Sciences to become CannaGlobal Wellness, and why many smaller companies are merging, and why Canada may be a hot new destination point for these companies. Joe suggests a new idea of helping people microdose through the use of a transdermal patch.
They talk about psychology today and the idea of no theory being complete without including all perspectives (including psychedelic perspectives), the concept of re-phrasing “what’s wrong with you?” to “what has happened to you?”, a recent student’s theory that schizophrenia may actually be a protection mechanism, Amsterdam-based psilocybin-retreat company Synthesis’ recent $2.75 million funding towards developing an end-to-end professional wellness & therapy platform, and what that means to the community- are these companies focusing on the drug as the crux, or the full therapy picture?
Lastly, they talk about the death of Elijah McClain from a 500-milligram injection of ketamine, using thoughts from past guest and regular administrator of ketamine to patients, Dr. Alex Belser. They talk about how ketamine can be necessary, but how it has unfortunately been used as a weapon for chemical restraint against people of color, which brings about larger questions on whether people should be allowed to hurt themselves or not- what role do physicians, therapists and police officers ultimately have in people’s freedom to do what they want with their bodies?
And just as a reminder, Psychedelics Today is currently offering a course developed by Kyle and Dr. Ido Cohen called Psychedelics and The Shadow: The Shadow Side of Psychedelia. And the next round of Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists will be starting in September, with a new self-paced option.
Notable Quotes
On William James: “As soon as he found out about other states of consciousness other than the normal waking state, he’s saying that no theory for how the world works is complete unless we include all perspectives. So, like, what is the American constitution when you’re on nitrous or on LSD? What is appropriate political idealogy, given all of these things? Essentially, he’s saying that we’re going to keep developing new tools to understand the universe, and every time we have one of these new tools, it kind of expands the scope of what we need in our theories for how the world works. …Psychedelic states, shamanic states- how do we include that into our worldview to have a complete scientific framework? I think it’s just a never-ending process, and a fun one.” -Joe
“Even the people that I’ve worked with [who] are really really struggling, and I’ve seen medication work really well for them at times, I always come back to: ‘what has this person been through? Do they actually have this thing that science and probably psychiatry would label as a disease?’ …Some of the trauma stuff that’s coming out, the neuroscience, some of the somatics- it’s all kind of merging. And with the help of psychedelics, I’m feeling more optimistic that maybe the field will go into more of a growth, healing-oriented route vs. this pathology [of] ‘sick.’” -Kyle
“With these clinics that are popping up- are you exclusively focusing on the psychedelic experience, or are you trying to focus on the therapeutic relationship, the rapport, the container, the trust that’s developed over time, and really developing that relationship with the client? There’s tons of research that suggests that a therapeutic relationship is the one factor in getting better in therapy. So, as money is coming into this space and more of these clinics are popping up, are you creating a center around therapy, and really thinking about how to bring wellness and work with people in this space, or are just focusing it exclusively on the substance, thinking that’s the change?” -Kyle
In today’s episode, Joe interviews Jesse Gould, founder and president of the Heroic Hearts Project, a nonprofit organization that connects military veterans to ayahuasca retreats, and Keith Abraham, head of the newly created Heroic Hearts UK branch.
They discuss the similarities of their military pasts and post-combat struggles, and how they both took part in ayahuasca ceremonies at Peru’s La Medicina, where they eventually met. They note the need to create the UK branch came from the realization that UK vets simply weren’t getting as much attention as those in the US.
They talk about the unlikely allyship of Crispin Blunt, member of Parliament and co-chair of the All Party Parliamentory Group for Drug Policy Reform, the consideration of using psilocybin in future work as a less intense ayahuasca alternative, current microbiome studies and the excitement around new data vs. the “death by survey” complications when working with people in need, and how helpful a military mindset can be in these situations.
They share some success stories but talk about how far we need to go in helping veterans come back to society, and how much we’d benefit from a more ceremonial acceptance of the passage from one way of life to another. The corporate 9-5 world can be tough for anyone, but ultimately, finding a purpose and connecting to a community is what’s most important toward these veterans reintegrating back to their “pre-army” lives.
Notable Quotes
“Ayahuasca changed everything. I came out of that jungle a very different person. I wouldn’t say that I had a 400% healing experience, but I had that massive, massive, massive catalyst where I knew that my life had to change. And it has. And from there, in the year since, when I got myself together, I started realizing, ‘you know what? I’m in a good place. How can I introduce UK veterans to the experience that I’ve had, because I see that as vitally important?’ And then I was introduced to Jesse, and it turned out that the organization that I thought I wanted to create had already been created perfectly.” -Keith Abraham
“My sons actually in the same unit as I was (in the parachute regiment.) When I left the parachute regiment and went for my ayahuasca experience in Peru, I then came back, and my son was looking at me like, “wait, you’re a grizzly old war veteran, and now you’re talking about, like ‘everything is connected, and love and peace and harmony’ um… this is… strange.’’ He’s gotten really used to it now, but yea, it’s wonderful that these plant medicines can do these things for us. [We have] such strong minds and characters, and this ingrained training as well, but it can be overwhelmed in a good way.” -Keith Abraham
“One of the things we teach through Heroic Hearts, especially in the integration process, is: it’s fine to maintain your warrior- that warrior spirit, that warrior soul. But now you need to learn to use that energy and use that strength towards other means. You might be done with the fighting for now, but that doesn’t mean you’re set out to pasture and done with society. There’s a lot of different ways you can use that energy. …How can you continue to be a warrior, just on a different trajectory?” -Jesse Gould
Jesse Gould is Founder and President of the Heroic Hearts Project, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit pioneering psychedelic therapies for military veterans. After being deployed in Afghanistan three times, he founded the Heroic Hearts Project in 2017 to spearhead the acceptance and use of ayahuasca therapy as a means of addressing the current mental health crisis among veterans. The Heroic Hearts Project has raised over $150,000 in scholarships from donors including Dr. Bronner’s and partnered with the world’s leading ayahuasca treatment centers, as well as sponsoring psychiatric applications with the University of Colorado Boulder and the University of Georgia. Jesse helps shape treatment programs and spreads awareness of plant medicine as a therapeutic method. He has spoken globally about psychedelics and mental health, and received accolades including being recognized as one of the Social Entrepreneurs To Watch For In 2020 by Cause Artist. Driven by a mission to help military veterans struggling with mental trauma, he is best known for his own inspiring battle with PTSD and his recovery through ayahuasca therapy. Jesse’s work can be seen and heard at NY Times, Breaking Convention, San Francisco Psychedelic Liberty Summit, People of Purchase, The Freq, Psychedelics Today Podcast, Kyle Kingsbury Podcast, Cause Artist, WAMU 88.5 and The GrowthOp.
About Keith Abraham
Keith Abraham served 9 years as a member of The Parachute Regiment, fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Throughout the latter years of his military service and during this time working for an investment bank, Keith began experiencing severe symptoms of anxiety and depression. After exhausting the majority of services and options offered by the NHS and military charities without much success, Keith realized a new approach was needed. His profound experiences with ayahuasca and psilocybin convinced him of the vital role plant medicines have to offer those suffering from PTSD, brain injuries and mental ill-health.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about various topics in the news.
They first discuss the duality of how Covid-19 affects different people, and how much of a privilege it is to be able to reconnect with family in new ways and use this time to grow spiritually while so many are out of work and struggling to get by.
They discuss a recent tweet from @Shroomstreet concerning psychedelic stocks and the money being invested in this emerging market, and concerns that some of these unknown companies could be fake or following the “exit scam” model of holding onto investor money and then closing up shop. How many of these companies are in it for the right reasons, and what does this all mean on a grand scale? They talk about recent reports of psychedelic retreats in excess of $10,000 and the various aspects surrounding these prices, from the cost of education and the need for physicians and therapists to make a living while helping others, to the idea of “pay what you can” and taking a hit financially if it means helping the local community or those really in need without the finances to be able to participate in these retreats. Is pastoral counseling or group therapy the best way to help the most people?
And lastly, they talk about Oregon’s progress in getting legal psilocybin therapy on the ballot in November and the benefits of legality, most importantly towards the ability to report abusive sitters under a framework that would completely remove them from this field.
Notable quotes
“The Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm is just so focused on the how- on the mechanics of ‘how does a psychedelic work? Oh, ok, it can treat this. How does it treat this?’ vs. thinking about the idea of final cause and thinking about the why- why do these things exist? What is its purpose, and what is the potential implication here, on a bigger level, than just thinking about this how and thinking ‘this thing does this thing and that’s all we’re really worried about,’ not thinking about that overarching why- like, what is the purpose here?” -Kyle
“I think everybody really should be able to access healing eventually. I think people shouldn’t be starving to death either, but people are still starving to death. I remember Kwasi (Adusei, in Solidarity Fridays week 10) at one point was like, ‘should we bring psychedelics to minority communities for healing?’ Well, why not bring regular mental health services first? Let’s start with clean water, as opposed to ‘let’s give them a road that they didn’t want.’ What’s the cheapest, lowest-hanging fruit that’s going to give the best reward?” -Joe
“Education programs probably would be really helpful. And I think that’s how we fit in. It’s a philosophy thing that could be helpful for both recreationalists and people providing therapeutic experiences, and the experiencers themselves too. It helps to have some education before you go to see God.” -Joe
“I think states should be experimenting with different ways of going forward. Yes, I want everything to be decriminalized- I want everything to be legal, really- personally. I don’t think therapeutic use should be the only use-case. But it’s certainly a lot better than what we’ve got now.” -Joe
In this episode, Joe speaks with Peter Hendricks, Ph.D. and Associate Professor at the University of Alabama, currently involved in researching the effects of psilocybin on people dealing with cocaine-related substance use disorder.
He discusses the details of the pilot trial (following the Johns Hopkins model, with music created by Bill Richards), some early findings and speculations, what music might work best for these sessions, how excited he is to bring these findings to the criminal justice system, and how religion and tribalism come into play when looking at what people get out of these psychedelic experiences. Hendricks points out that while psilocybin is currently being researched as a treatment for tobacco use (by Matthew Johnson at Johns Hopkins) and alcohol use (by Michael Bogenschutz at NYU), this is the first large study with cocaine and could lead to the first medication for major stimulants. And while there have been many studies on psilocybin in general, they’ve rarely been focused on the people he’s working with, who are often poorer, less educated, often out of work, and usually struggling more than those typically involved in these studies. They also talk about what research of the past has given us data-wise, and how inspirational it has been to the work being done today.
Notable Quotes
“The participants in our trial- they haven’t read Michael Pollan’s book or others. They’re not in the know. I’ll have to explain to them what the drug is, and the common reaction is, ‘uhh, so you’re going to help me stop getting high by getting me high?’ and I’ll try to explain how the drug might differ from others, from more addictive drugs like cocaine. And as we know, it’s an ineffable experience- it’s a difficult experience to put to words…. I’m honored and I have admiration for our participants because they have the courage to dive into this study conducted at a University by people they’ve never met. It can be a very frightening experience and they say, ‘you know what, I’ve tried everything. At this point, I’m desperate, let’s give it a try.’ I probably couldn’t overstate how much courage it takes for them to do what they do. I don’t know that I could do it myself.”
“I think for most of the world’s fates, the tenants are that we’re all in this together, and we’re bound by love. And that really might be the message that most people get from psychedelics, but similar to religion, sometimes that message is perverted a bit and what you take from it is, ‘my in-group is what’s most important and I’m going to act to preserve my own tribe, even if it means treating others in an awful, inhumane way…’ Sometimes experiences that are really meant to foster a connection with everybody can go haywire and we have to be aware of that”
“One criticism of some of the studies conducted so far has been, how do we know that psilocybin might have these effects on a sample that isn’t all college-educated or doctorates or who are Professors at Universities who make more than 100,000 dollars per year and live comfortably? How do we know that this experience would have any meaning to somebody who’s making less than 10,000 per year, who has a fifth-grade education, who’s unemployed and homeless? I think in large part, this study might answer that question. If we find an effect, then we can say it appears to also have an effect among those who look different and whose life circumstances are much different than some of the earlier participants.”
Dr. Hendricks received his doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of South Florida and completed a post-doctoral Fellowship in Drug Abuse Treatment and Services Research at the University of California, San Francisco. His research centers on the development of novel and potentially more effective treatments for substance dependence, with specific areas of focus on tobacco, cocaine, and polysubstance dependence in vulnerable populations.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to talk about topics in the news including Mindmed’s phase one research into DMT, the intricacies of intravenous or infusion-pump administration, the potential clinical application of DMT, and whether or not mainstream science is ready to handle some transpersonal phenomena like entity encounters that sometimes occur during DMT experiences. They also discuss the projections for the psychedelic drug market and the intentions of the companies entering this space, and a recent tweet from the Drug Policy Alliance discussing how the war on drugs is a tool of racial oppression.
They dive deep into the war on drugs and racial oppression by discussing how sentencing for crack-cocaine is much harsher than cocaine (while basically the same drug), how NYC’s “stop-and-frisk” program was essentially put in place to put people in jail for cannabis possession, and how Breonna Taylor never would have died if police weren’t looking for drugs. They discuss the tragedy of Elijah McClain and what purpose a lot of police activity really serves, while looking at the “protect ourselves first” fraternity mentality that a lot of these power organizations have and how difficult it can be for a good person to become a whistleblower in those situations.
They also talk about revisiting philosophy through Lenny Gibson and how beneficial it has been to explore that world as more mature people and see connections to psychology, as well as learning the limitations of scientific explanations when dealing with deep, transpersonal experiences. Lastly, they mention their excitement in participating in the re-scheduled Philosophy of Psychedelics conference coming up next year in England.
Notable quotes
“I stopped doing research on near-death experiences at some point, where I was just like, ‘I’m sick of reading about [how] these are just physiological reflexes and responses within the brain, maybe the lack of oxygen, or all the different neurochemistry that’s going on within the brain at the time of dying…’ There’s something so interesting about that experience, that no matter how much mechanistic information I have, there’s still something there that eats at me… kind of like this lore… the lore of beauty and life kind of unfolding. It’s oriented towards growth and beauty, and I guess that’s what some of these experiences have really taught me- and it is that lore to grow, evolve, and move towards something. And I think when I try to put some sort of biological explanation to it, it almost halts that and says ‘that experience doesn’t really mean that much.’” -Kyle
“Science has limited capacity to help people with meaning-making.” -Joe
“Do we have enough spiritual literacy? Do we have an inclusive enough cosmology to handle all of these cases? …Are psychologists willing to call in an exorcist of some kind? Or some sort of priest [who] can handle this kind of thing? …I tend to think shareholders might be a little creeped out if publicly traded companies are talking about spirits and entities. Are we ready for that?” -Joe
“What does it mean that you have to put somebody in prison for 10 years for a non-violent offense, as a cop? Like, you pulled someone over, you found some drugs in their car, and now they go to prison. And their life is essentially ruined. And you made the decision to become a police officer and uphold laws. Like, can you sit with that and be ok with that, as an individual? Why do you think drugs are so bad that locking another person up in a cage for years and years and years is ok? …[They say], ’because they have meth or fentanyl, they are the most dangerous people out there!’ What about the rapists and murderers? What about drunk drivers that could kill 20 kids in one night? Why are you spending time on drug offenses when there are rapists out there? There are tons of untested rape kids at all these police departments across the country.”- Joe
In this episode, Joe speaks with award-winning musician, producer, transpersonal guide, shamanic practitioner, and certified graduate of Grof Transpersonal Training, Byron Metcalf.
They discuss Metcalf’s path from being a Nashville-based studio musician (who played on Kenny Rogers’ “The Gambler”) to a “midlife correction” of taking a class with Stan Grof and Jacquelyn Small leading to him discovering holotropic breathwork: a whole new world he had never seen before that perfectly suited his musical mind.
They discuss how Metcalf works with music- from recording and producing to making mixes for sessions, how different types of music work better for different types of sessions, and how important it is to think about the flow of a mix and the transitions and mixing between songs in how it relates to the journey of the people listening- when does up-tempo music work best in comparison to more heart-centered, emotional music? When is more shamanic, percussion-based music more appropriate? He also talks about the effect of people’s projections in these sessions and a funny story of when he thought he heard Christmas music during a session, using Spotify for session music, streaming vs. downloading, 320kbps vs. 24-bit recordings, creating music sober vs. under the influence, the effectiveness of binaural beats, and co-creating retreats with clients to fit their custom personal and musical needs.
Notable Quotes
“It just… changed my life. I mean, literally, just like, ‘what is this? How is this even possible to just do some deep breathing and listen to this incredible music?’ …What it reminded me of was a psychedelic experience. And so I immediately saw the potential in it… And of course… how that model uses music was kind of just a perfect fit for me.”
“You’re doing your own work. The best healers or the best facilitators, therapists, whatever- are the ones who really have done their own work, and in fact, I don’t trust anyone [who] hasn’t.”
“I was really fortunate that Stan would enlist me to do music sometimes at these bigger events- the Insight and Opening where Stan and Jack Kornfield would combine the holotropic breathwork with Vipassana meditation for a week. And it was groups of 200, and so you got 100 people breathing at one time and it’s [a] pretty fantastic energy field as you could imagine. And just seeing- observing what happens for people and to people and through people, still- when I think about it and start describing some of the things that I’ve witnessed and observed and experienced, it almost sounds like [I’m] making this stuff up… It’s like trying to explain a psychedelic experience to someone that’s never had it before… There’s no way you can really convey that. So it has to be experienced.”
“There’s something higher, bigger- that’s at work here that we want to make contact with and surrender to. So that’s the goal. And sometimes if people are projecting on the music, not liking the music- sometimes changing it would be good. Other times, not. Because maybe it is bringing up a great piece for them. And [they say] “I don’t like this! I don’t like this!” Of course that’s projecting onto the music. What’s going on underneath that?”
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about topics in the news including what psychedelic companies owe to the community (both indigenous people and the underground psychedelic world), psilocybin-like drug alternatives for treating depression and the many reasons newer companies are trying to remove the psychedelic part of the medicine, and Dennis McKenna’s recent appointing to New Wave Holdings’ psychedelic research advisory board and what that says about the current climate of corporations moving into this space.
They discuss the dangers of “sponsored content”-like corporate messages, the malleability of laws and power of lobbyists and interest groups, and how manipulation is faster and quieter than ever before, while many big decisions are being made by people crippled from decades of unseen cultural baggage. And why are companies trying to remove the psychedelic side of medicine? Is it solely for profit, or could it be because there are so many in need that streamlining the process or using these medicines differently than we’re used to in this space would be beneficial to the most people?
Lastly, they talk about the importance of making the right connections and having the right arguments and really asking yourself what you’re trying to do when engaging with those who disagree with you- are you just trying to be right, or are you trying to make a change?
Additionally, Joe shares an important harm reduction story and tip, and gives the news that Psychedelics Today recently surpassed 1 million downloads. Thank you for the support!
Notable Quotes
“Is the only box you can fit in, like ‘I want a career, a home and a family’? And everything else doesn’t matter? Is that it? I think it’s more complicated than that. We’re not just atomic units, like nuclear families. We’re far more interconnected than that, and it’s kind of irresponsible to ignore that.” -Joe
“Big businesses end up creating these systems that we all seem to rely on over time and to some extent, I think we appreciate the convenience. If that crumbled, what would our life look like? Could we tolerate living more locally, doing things on a much smaller scale? …What would that look like in a world where the government didn’t give huge bailouts to these big companies? Our world would drastically change, and could we shift?” -Kyle
“Maybe a thing to just keep in the back of our minds when we’re hearing all this stuff about new pharma companies is that pharma is not guaranteed money for these people. Pharma is still a gamble. Unless they really nail it, they could go bankrupt in a couple years, or just have earnings way lower than they hoped for. So it’s big money, it’s big bets, and they’re betting on big returns, so they kind of have to go out on a limb and stay stuff like this. But the fact that Forbes put that out- that psilocybin could be toxic- seems irresponsible to me… To me, this kind of looks like sponsored content. Or it’s just like, ‘how do we get these corporations to talk to us and be comfortable, so we have to promise fluff.’ Or, is this organized propaganda?” -Joe
“Some of the people in this space are just getting so nasty that a lot of people are just saying, ‘nah, I’m out, later. I’ll go watch Seinfeld reruns for the next couple years while this shit plays out.’ Are you moving allies away, or are you bringing allies closer to you? Think about that. You want more allies. What’s the best tool? Sweetness. Anger, bitterness, spite- those are things that make people want to go away from you. How effective do you want to be, why do you want to be effective, and what tools are you willing to employ to be effective?” -Joe
In this episode, Joe Interviews Dosed filmmakers Tyler Chandler and Nick Meyers, as well as the subject of their documentary, Adrianne.
Nick and Tyler tell the story of how they went from really knowing very little about the psychedelic healing movement to becoming advocates solely from a panicked call from Adrianne.
Adrianne speaks of her journey from opiate addiction and severe depression to trying mushrooms and eventually learning she needed Iboga and a community around her to really fight her way out of a life she no longer wanted to live.
They touch on the costs of Iboga compared to other rehabilitation methods, the often glazed-over dangers of Iboga, the effectiveness of psilocybin against opioid withdrawal, anxiety in the western world, holotropic breathwork as a safer method towards healing, the power of the Pixar movie, Inside Out, and why it would be beneficial for young viewers to watch Dosed.
Notable Quotes
“I have gotten sober and detoxed many, many, many times and not stayed sober, so obviously while the physical withdrawals are completely excruciating and definitely a big barrier to getting sober, there’s really something more to recovery than that, and that’s that kind of spiritual experience or awakening. And the psychedelic component is really important to that and I feel like that’s what’s contributed to me… not only getting sober but staying sober.” -Adrianne
“The real problem is that… people are forced to make these decisions and take these risks because something that has been known for 40 years to have this wonderful effect on opioid addicts is somehow something that nobody knows about and isn’t legalized.” -Nick Meyers
“No matter how you choose to recover or what you do to get sober and stay sober, having a community around you and staying connected with people is so, so important.” -Adrianne
“I definitely had a lot of discomfort just learning to… be still or be with myself and not have an escape. That’s part of recovery and it’s very uncomfortable. It takes time to get used to that. I was always used to having some kind of coping mechanism that took me out of myself, that just helped me not feel uncomfortable or whatever negative feeling I was feeling. So that’s always a challenge and there’s no shortcuts to that- you do have to just learn to be in your body and feel feelings, which I did not like very much. But, you know, it gets easier over time.” -Adrianne
“Everybody is so scared of just saying… ‘this is something that teens should do’ because nobody wants to have anything bad happen and then have it get traced back to them. But look at the realities of what teens are going through with… the rampant alcohol and other drugs, and… vaping and smoking and all the other vices- prescription medications, everything that’s available. And there’s like, no guidance, no supervision a lot of the time… What we’re doing right now isn’t working. Can I dare say it? It would be better if there were rites of passage with psychedelics in controlled settings with proper set, setting and dose with young people, because it really helps you recontextualize and reframe things in your mind.” -Nick Meyers
After many years of prescription medications failed her, a suicidal woman turns to underground healers to try and overcome her depression, anxiety, and opioid addiction with illegal psychedelic medicine such as magic mushrooms and iboga. Adrianne’s first dose of psilocybin mushrooms catapulted her into an unexpected world of healing where plant medicines are redefining our understanding of mental health and addiction.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and discuss topics in the media including the usefulness of brain activity scans and the idea that “brain does not equal mind,” how language can shift the social narrative to or away from stigma when describing substance use, and psilocybin testing in mice and when we might see psilocybin start being prescribed.
They spend a lot of time on the questions everyone is asking right now- what changes can we make that will help the most people and give the oppressed what they need? What tangible changes do the oppressed actually want? What should the role of police look like, either compared to or in conjunction with social work or therapy?
They look at these questions with hope, but through a realistic lens- disasters, illness and even global warming always affects the poor and oppressed more than those in power. And historically, people have always shown a natural tendency to want to hold others down. What is the real purpose behind what those in power do (for example, outlawing encrypted texting or arresting someone for doing drugs)? Are they trying to encourage only specific conversations they’re comfortable with?
Notable Quotes
So what really can we do, and what specifically can those with white privilege do? The answer there is to find where your voice is most effective, and to have those tough conversations. “Find those inarguable points. Don’t let the media steer your narrative. Major media outlets want you to talk about certain things. Don’t do that. Find out what you think is most important and most helpful to discuss with the people you’re around. Where do you have the most influence?” -Joe
“How can we… shift the narrative there to help people heal instead of… putting them in this lifelong box of ‘you’ll never heal from this because you have this disorder and this disease’? I’m always on the side of healing [rather] than trying to completely pathologize experiences.” -Kyle
“It sounds nice to say that we want to eliminate violence, we want to eliminate racism, we want to eliminate rape- all these really bad things. But how long have those things been with us? At least 14,000 years, I think. What’s it going to really take to totally reprogram the human genome- the human mind- to transition to this ideal? Is it possible? I don’t know… I want to see these police held accountable, I want to see… criminals in the government go to jail. But it’s kind of the nature of these institutions. They have this monopoly on violence that was granted to them a long time ago, and there’s no real recourse. They’ve got way bigger budgets than any of us as individuals or gangs have, much more training, much better gear… I don’t totally see a great path out.” -Joe
In this episode, Joe speaks with Mark Plotkin, Ph.D., author of The Amazon: What Everyone Needs to Know, and President and co-founder of the Amazon Conservation Team (ACT).Show Notes
Plotkin talks about studying under Richard Evans Schultes (“the father of ethnobotany”), biocultural conservation (the main point of the ACT), Covid-19 and the possibilities for cures in the Amazon, how ayahuasca news can always be viewed as both good and bad, how indigenous people often know much more about their environment and plant medicines than we realize, and how not all ayahuasca is created equal.
They mostly talk about the purpose of the ACT- using ethnographic mapping to help indigenous people take control of and protect their own land from their government and mining or logging interests, all while trying to bring a focus on respecting and protecting the environment, culture, and traditions encompassing the Amazon and its many people.
“The race is on. Protect the forests, protect the shamans, protect the frogs, protect the plants, protect the fungi, and let’s learn what these people know before that knowledge disappears because the knowledge is disappearing much faster than the forest itself.”
Notable Quotes
On the ACT: “When we set up the Amazon Conservation team about 25 years ago, the idea was that you had groups like the World Wildlife Fund (where I had been working) that was focused on protecting rainforests, and you had groups like Cultural Survival that was focused on protecting indigenous culture, but they really didn’t talk to each other. And so we wanted to help create a discipline now known as Biocultural Conservation because those of us who work with indigenous cultures (whether it’s in the far north of Canada or it’s in the Amazon) know that there is an inextricable link between traditional shamanic cultures and their environment. And nobody was addressing that.”
“There’s a great saying… that the rainforest holds answers to questions we haven’t even asked. So who knows if the answer to Covid-19 or SARs or the next virus which is coming at some point is in the Amazon, and the answer is- nobody knows, and nobody’s really looking for it. So why not protect this treasure, steward it better, look for these answers, and keep the earth a rich and wonderful place?”
“The medical office of the future, if we get it right, is going to have a physician… a nutritionist… a pet therapist… a music therapist… a dietitian… a shaman… a massage therapist. Because there’s no one person and one way that’s going to embody all aspects of healing at the same time.”
“We all go to the grocery [store and ask]: ‘I want to buy organic stuff.’ How come nobody ever asks where the ayahuasca comes from? Is it harvested sustainably? Was it grown organically? You know how many times I’ve been asked that question? Never. If we’re having raised consciousness, why the hell aren’t we asking these questions? So my challenge to all of our like-minded colleagues is: Let’s make sure we’re getting this from a sustainable source. Let’s make sure it’s being replanted when it’s harvested. Let’s make sure it’s benefiting tribal communities or peasant communities that are respectful of nature and shamanic processes and things like that because I don’t understand why anybody would go to the grocery store and want to get organic grapes but will buy ayahuasca off the internet without knowing where it came from.”
“It’s not nice to screw mother nature either, because, you know, mother nature always wins. And thinking that we can get away with this and make a few bucks or eat a few weird dishes and not pay the ultimate price is foolish… It’s us [who are] following our nests… abusing indigenous cultures… abusing forests… and mother nature is ultimately going to have her revenge.”
Dr. Mark Plotkin is a renowned ethnobotanist who has studied traditional indigenous plant use with elder shamans (traditional healers) of Central and South America for much of the past 30 years. As an ethnobotanist—a scientist who studies how, and why, societies have come to use plants for different purposes—Dr. Plotkin carried out the majority of his research with the Trio Indians of southern Suriname, a small rainforest country in northeastern South America, but has also worked with elder shamans from Mexico to Brazil. Dr. Plotkin has a long history of work with other organizations to promote conservation and awareness of our natural world, having served as Research Associate in Ethnobotanical Conservation at the Botanical Museum of Harvard University; Director of Plant Conservation at the World Wildlife Fund; Vice President of Conservation International; and Research Associate at the Department of Botany of the Smithsonian Institution. Dr. Plotkin is now President and Board member of the Amazon Conservation Team (ACT), a nonprofit organization he co-founded with his fellow conservationist and wife, Liliana Madrigal in 1996, now enjoying over 20 years of successes dedicated to protecting the biological and cultural diversity of the Amazon. ACT has been a member of the United Nations Environment Programme Global 500 Roll of Honour since 2002, and was recognized as using “Best Practices Using Indigenous Knowledge” by UNESCO, the United Nation’s cultural organization.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode, Kyle and Joe interview Kwasi Adusei, Nurse Practitioner, and board member of Psychedelics Today. In the show, they talk about the root of protesting, privilege, the country’s leadership, the importance of this conversation and ways to support the Black Lives Matter movement.
Show Notes
About Kwasi
It’s difficult for all groups of people to talk about, not everybody is coming from the same place on this topic
Kwasi says it’s wonderful to see so many people rising up to fight against injustice
These things have been happening for a long time, and it speaks to the history in America
Kwasi grew up in The Bronx, and it wasn’t uncommon to hear about deaths, gun violence, etc
Kwasi went to receive his Doctorate, but reflects on his time in middle school and barely graduating
It wasn’t because of him and his willingness to learn, it was because of his environment
The high school he went to is now shut down because of the low graduation rates
The Perfect Storm
Kyle says he wonders why this time in particular, why this is impacting the nation and the world more than anything else going on
Kwasi sees it as a two part thing, it’s a snowball effect, the anger around these instances continue to grow
The other part of it, has a lot to do with the Coronavirus, people are losing their jobs, having trouble paying rent, feeding their family, etc
They are losing their outlets to grieve, and they go through it for weeks
Then something like this happens and it results in rage
Making the Right Statement
It’s important to look to the family of George Floyd, they are angry at the violence coming out of the protests
Some people believe that the anger that people are showing when damaging property, is causing the same anger when lives are lost
But some people are capitalizing on chaos, burning buildings and bringing destruction, and it takes away from the message of changing the systemic issues, it perpetuates it
It brings the spotlight to those who are inviting hate by graffiti-ing, lighting buildings on fire, ec
The conversation needs to prove that protests are making a statement
Poor Leadership
We have a President that is enforcing law and order to remove peaceful protesters in a violent way
The leadership we have is very important, how crisis is approached is really important
“How [as a leader] do you calm the nerves of people, while getting to the root of the problem?” – Kwasi
We have a lot of people that support Trump, and he doesn’t do the best job at leading and supporting the country in a respectful way, especially in these times
Joe mentioned videos out there of undercover cops breaking windows that are ‘bait’ to bring in stronger forces to shut down the protests
“We should all be asking ourselves, if I care about the messaging, how do I use my sphere of influence to change things?” – Kwasi
There are so many roots to this problem
How much are we using to fund the police force versus funding education, community services, public health?
How to Support
Joe says this platform (Psychedelics Today) is to create a space for people to give back, have an impact, share stories and support movements like this
Kwasi says to look locally to give your time, money and support
He says look to get involved in local elections, making a small difference in your local community, makes a difference on the larger scale when multiplied
Stay informed for yourself and share that information with everyone else
People are thinking heavily right now “where are my tax dollars being spent?”
Instead of extra funding to the local police force, you can vote for that increase to go toward something else like education
Having the Conversation
Our voice is our vote
Many people who listen to the Psychedelics Today podcast are probably privileged
The psychedelic movement is (and if not, should be) connected to so many other movements like BLM
Psychedelics Today is mainly about social justice, changing the narrative on drug policy, the drug war, psychedelic exceptionalism and access
Kwasi says that for those who have acknowledged their privilege, not to just keep themselves in the pillar of ‘because I support the psychedelic movement and its connected to the BLM movement, I’ve done enough’
He encourages becoming an ally of the BLM movement, as well as any other movement
Privilege
Being a spiritual and privileged person, you have even more time to sit and process and think about all of this, especially when it’s not affecting you
It’s difficult to analyze one’s own privilege
Kwasi says he went on a medical mission to Ghana, where he was born
Going back and seeing what the lifestyle was like there, it shifted a lot in him to understand his own privilege
He had the privilege of coming to America, receiving an education, etc
Because of his education, he is asking himself how to give back
Making Change through Action
If you’re going to voice your support, that voice needs follow up with actions
Actions like donating to groups, educating yourself on local authority measures, voting, etc
Sometimes an organization’s agenda isn’t always aligned with what the people want
Kwasi says that he had a few people randomly venmo him money and it offended him
He doesn’t want money, he wants change to be made in other ways
He says for those looking to help, ask first and see what ways those who have been oppressed want to see the change and be supported
“We can all be change makers, and all make a change in this world” – Kwasi
Final Thoughts
Kwasi wants to bring mental health into communities of people of color
Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Marie Brown: Inspired by Octavia Butler’s explorations of our human relationship to change, Emergent Strategy is radical self-help, society-help, and planet-help designed to shape the futures we want to live.
13th: An in-depth look at the prison system in the United States and how it reveals the nation’s history of racial inequality.
I Am Not Your Negro: Explores the history of racism in the United States through Baldwin’s reminiscences of civil rights leaders Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King Jr., as well as his personal observations of American history.
Ways to take action; Donate to victim funds
Official George Floyd Memorial Fund: These funds will also go towards the funeral and burial costs along with the counseling and legal expenses for his loved ones. A portion will go towards the Estate of George Floyd for the benefit and care of his children and their educational fund.
Ways to take action; Donate to organizations
The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund: the NAACP Legal Defense works on advancing the goals of racial justice and equality by protecting those that are most vulnerable in society. Their work includes court cases that work for a fairer justice system, increasing graduation rates among African American students, protecting voters across the nation, and decreasing disproportionate incarceration and sentencing rates.
Campaign Zero: The organization uses data to inform policy solutions that aim to ends police brutality. Their vision is to create a better world by “limiting police interventions, improving community interactions, and ensuring accountability.”
About Kwasi Adusei
Kwasi dedicates his work in the psychedelic movement to altering the stigma in mainstream channels by promoting the science, the healing potential of psychedelics, and civic engagement. Kwasi is a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner and graduated from the University at Buffalo. He is the founder of the Psychedelic Society of Western New York and project manager for Psychonauts of the World, an initiative to share meaningful psychedelic stories, with the ultimate goal of publishing them in a book as an avenue to raise money for psychedelic research. He is also one of the administrators for the Global Psychedelic Network, a conglomerate of psychedelic groups and individuals from around the world. Born in Ghana and raised in the Bronx, New York, Kwasi hopes to bring psychedelic therapy to communities of color.
In this episode, Joe speaks with Jacob Curtis, photojournalist at Denver7, a Denver-based ABC affiliate.
Curtis covered Alaska’s marijuana legalization in 2014, and as a photojournalist living in Denver, has been at the forefront of the Decriminalize Denver movement, even providing some of the first broadcasted footage of a local mushroom grow.
Curtis speaks about attending Psychedelic Club meetings and meeting James Casey, wanting to be the person to bring this story to the mainstream, and how these meetings and growing interest from the community were ultimately the incubators for the Decriminalize Denver, and later, Decriminalize Nature and #thankyouplantmedicine movements.
They also discuss the National Psychedelic Club (of which Joe reveals he is now on the Board of Directors), Edward Snowden and the dangers of speaking with the media, and advice for how to protect one’s identity, the Telluride Mushroom Festival and documentaries like “Dosed,” the Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, new startups in the field like MindMed, the Denver Mushroom Cooperative, MkUltra experiments in Denver, the importance of the #thankyouplantmedicine hashtag, and ultimately, how much Covid-19 has impacted the speed of progress in bringing legalization to the mainstream.
Notable quotes
On James Casey: “He was an awesome subject to sort of wrap the story around, and he was the perfect poster child because he had all the right ingredients- he was a veteran, really well-spoken, and just pretty straight-laced.”
“It is interesting to watch, how the media sort of responds and works with stories that are on the fringes and then move slowly towards the mainstream. It’s one of those things about our culture- it bends and shifts. The times change and what was radical 10 years ago is normal now.”
“We’ve had so many huge events that have taken place in our lifetimes that this kind of seems trivial… it’s not the highest priority anymore after we had the 2000 election, September 11th, the Iraq war. Those things [psychedelics] aren’t as high on the list of things that we are supposed to be worried about anymore.”
“I don’t think that we’re going to shy away from talking about psychedelics after a catastrophic virus collapses the world economy. It’ll be an easy topic.”
On #thankyouplantmedicine: “I don’t think there was necessarily a hashtag for drug policy reform that has been a conscious effort like that before, so it definitely gained some attention… If anything, it brought people together. If it didn’t get this big media splash, it definitely helped grow the network.”
Jacob is a photojournalist at Denver7, a Denver-based ABC affiliate. He has been at the forefront of the Decriminalize Denver movement, even providing some of the first broadcasted footage of a local mushroom grow.
Its based on Stanislav Grof’s research into psychedelic therapy, holotropic breathwork, transpersonal psychology, and spiritual emergencies
Dr. Stanislov Grof and his wife just launched this program
It’s not just about breathwork
His involvement in the Grof transpersonal training program dropped off in the last few years
He wasn’t allowed to teach breathwork in the GTT model, there wasn’t any growth in the company, so a lot of people like Grof left and started their own thing
Kyle says this is pretty common with trademarks and protocols
Joe says he’s very excited about it
Kyle says Stan’s work is very important and a lot of the reason Psychedelics Today came to be
Peyote
Native American Churches don’t have as much access as they need to properly grow Peyote
Perhaps, in countries where Peyote isn’t illegal, there should be growing of Peyote
Native American’s are in a bad spot due to colonialism
As insiders, we need to talk about how to use less Peyote
“Pick one, plant two” should be the mindset
Kyle says, “how do we just respect these sacred medicines?”
2,561 individuals (mean age 32 years; 77% male) completed an online survey about their single most memorable entity encounter after taking N,N-dimethyltryptamine
Senses involved were visual and extra-sensory
The most common descriptive labels for the entity were being, guide, spirit, alien and helper
41% of respondents reported fear
More than half of those who identify as Atheist before, no longer identified with Atheism after the experience
Out of any other method, DMT seems to occasion the most entities
In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Erik Davis, Author of High Weirdness: Drugs, Esoterica, and Visionary Experience in the Seventies. In the show they cover topics on La Chorrera, uncertainty, synchronicities and more.
3 Key Points:
Erik is the Author of High Weirdness, a study of the spiritual provocations to be found in the work of Philip K. Dick, Terence McKenna, and Robert Anton Wilson.
These 3 authors chart the emergence of a new psychedelic spirituality that arose from the American counterculture of the 1970s. Erik examines the published and unpublished writings of these thinkers as well as their own life-changing mystical experiences.
Erik is America’s leading scholar of high strangeness, and talks of synchronicities, uncertainty, and all things weird.
Show Notes
About Erik
Erik went into the PhD program and always wanted to write about Phillip K Dick
He got a sense that he didn’t want to spend 3 years in Phillip’s head
He looked into the works of Phillip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson, The McKenna brothers, etc
He wanted to find a way to take their experiences seriously, without taking them literally
The Book
Much like understanding religious experiences, unpacking psychedelic experiences involves clinical analysis, free-thinking, pragmatism, and skepticism. “Creative insecurity is one of the greatest gifts of these compounds.” People want an answer, but maybe there isn’t always an answer. “There’s something else that’s going on that’s more cosmic, and difficult in a lot of ways. I want to invite that difficulty in.”
A large reason people have difficulty with uncertainty is because often, there are many “answers” right there, likely from someone trying to sell them something. Studying religion made Davis more critical of these “sellers,” but gave him much more sympathy and patience for religious people because of the fact that they’re seeking something.
Davis’ favorite image for the idea of courage in trying to understand the unknown is that of a tight-rope walker. The tight-rope walker steps away from solid ground, and the only way to survive is to maintain balance. “There is a way of continuing to be reasonable, asking questions, respecting balance and homeostasis, even as you enter into really difficult situations.”
He wanted to tell these stories because “that’s what the weird is. [Psychedelic experiences] are great- they can be holy, they can be integrative, they can be healing, they can be unifying, they can be restoring- all those things are true, and they’re totally weird! And what are you going to do with that? You’re going to pretend that’s not there?”
The healing part of psychedelics is great, but viewing psychedelics as a learning tool is equally as important.
La Chorrera
Erik says that it’s the great story
He says that no one had taken it seriously, and he wanted people to recognize what their work was, which was their experiences
Its half science, and half a ritual
It was a theater of transformation and novel experience
The purpose is to avoid the traps of blaming it on psychosis, and look at it as a creative venture
“I think a lot of us wrestling with psychedelics and visionary experiences have our own challenge of, how do we put these pieces together?” – Erik
Uncertainty
“I want to invite that difficulty in, it’s not always love and light” – Erik
When someone is uncomfortable, people just turn away from it, and they just live in this lie
Erik says he blames the culture and capitalist scene
Because of uncertainty, there are so many experts ready to sell you something
“The people who are seeking, I have more sympathy for. The people that are selling, I have less sympathy for” – Erik
“If you keep the balance, you can go pretty far and not fall in” – Erik
A lot of conspiracy theorists hand over their sovereign-ness
“I know” gives you an answer
We have reasons to distrust institutions
It’s good to have a dose of skepticism
Conspiracy
“Conspiracy theory is a concept that is and has been used to obfuscate real questions” but why do we put our trust in one entity over another? While some of this obviously comes from a growing level of distrust of the media and mainstream authority figures, a lot of it comes from people wanting to avoid “not knowing.” “I see a lot of conspiracy theorists just handing over their own sovereign ‘not knowingness’ and they can gain a false power of ‘knowing.’”
Believing conspiracies gives people an answer and story, makes them feel both knowledgeable and a part of something (they’re an insider vs. all the others who don’t know what’s going on), and they’re marginalized because they’re going against the mainstream system- they thrive in an “us-against-them” conflict.
Synchronicities
Research synchronicity: “A lot of the synchronicities are actually just books talking to each other in weird and unexpected ways.”
We are pattern recognition machines on a spectrum. Not recognizing enough can make us viewed as cold and unemotional, but if we see a lot of patterns, we’re more open to paranormal or occult ideas. If we see too many, we may have mental issues.
These experiences happen, but Davis doesn’t believe there’s much more to it than that, as we are living in a mystery. “I enjoy the feelings associated with them, but in the same way that we do not “believe” great works of art, I don’t leave with some sense that I have now seen something that requires me to revise my worldview. The take-home prize is mystery.”
Cults
Erik says he can’t write off people like Osho or Crowley
Even if they may have caused abuse or bad things, they have done a lot of great things for humanity
While misogynistic, creepy and cruel, it is rude to not recognize Crowley’s contributions. And “when he was on, he was a great writer. Visionary literature.”
Genesis P-Orridge said that cults are actually important to the development of humanity. Davis feels that cults can be like theatre- a creative director sets a stage and usually they’re the only one who knows everything that’s going on, there are practiced, learned scripts, some people like it, while others get screwed and hate it, etc. Cults are more complicated than people give them credit for, and are often seen more negatively because they disrupt families, particularly the role of a parents vs. the parental-like roles of cult leaders. But often, while not a popular opinion, good things can come out of cults.
What’s a cult? Its a creative director who sets the ‘stage’ and script that people learn etc
Davis was born during the Summer of Love within a stone’s throw of San Francisco. He grew up in North County, Southern California, and spent a decade on the East Coast, where he studied literature and philosophy at Yale and spent six years in the freelance trenches of Brooklyn and Manhattan before moving to San Francisco, where he currently resides. He is the author of four books: Nomad Codes: Adventures in Modern Esoterica (Yeti, 2010), The Visionary State: A Journey through California’s Spiritual Landscape (Chronicle, 2006), with photographs by Michael Rauner, and the 33 1/3 volume Led Zeppelin IV (Continuum, 2005). His first and best-known book remains TechGnosis: Myth, Magic, and Mysticism in the Age of Information (Crown, 1998), a cult classic of visionary media studies that has been translated into five languages and recently republished by North Atlantic Press. He has contributed chapters on art, music, technoculture, and contemporary spirituality to over a dozen books. In addition to his many forewords and introductions, Davis has contributed articles and essays to a variety of periodicals. A vital speaker, Davis has given talks at universities, media art conferences, and festivals around the world. He has taught seminars at the UC Berkeley, UC Davis, the California Institute of Integral Studies, and Rice University, as well as workshops at the New York Open Center and Esalen. He has been interviewed by CNN, NPR, the New York Times, and the BBC, and appeared in numerous documentaries. He has hosted the podcast Expanding Mind on the Progressive Radio Network since 2010, and earned his PhD in Religious Studies from Rice University in 2015.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s Episode, Kyle and Joe interview Dave McGaughey, Founding Partner of NorthStar. In the show, they talk about NorthStar, Ethics, and the story, “We Will Call It Pala”.
Show Notes
About Dave
Dave was interested in natural food and kombucha and sold kombucha commercially and personally for 10 years
The critical moment for Dave was at a convention hall on an escalator
On the escalator, in the middle, there were signs for an ‘exit’ that each company sold for
“What do we spend our short lives doing and why?” – Dave
He became humbled by the genius around him there and left the natural foods ‘industry’ for something more
Business Ethics
People come in with really good intentions, and then things get out of hand
Money screams security and comfort, even though that’s not really the case
Joe says integrity has been Psychedelics Today’s number one goal, we’ve turned down investors that were not ethical, been public about partnerships (and the ending of some), etc
Reflect inward to maintain ethical standing
“How do we reflect on what we actually need and what we need to do?” – Joe
Since the beginning, Joe and Kyle would reach out to their advisory board for questions and guidance
Anchoring Community
At Northstar, they look at a large coalition of people in the psychedelic field
Pollanators – those who have read Pollan’s book and are super excited
Those who have had their own psychedelic experiences
Investors who are coming into the space and gaining a lot of power very quickly
Anchoring Community – the people who have been here for the longest time, and doing work in this space (elders, drug policy activists, etc)
In the underground, there is no strategy of how to hold accountability of facilitators, etc
“The eco-system is most thriving when non-profit pharma, and decrim and legalization are going really well” – David
Mindmed
Mindmed is making a drug that acts as a LSD Neutralizer technology to shorten and stop LSD trips
Dave says it could be really valuable for the ‘bad’ experiences
Another thing about the patent that might be bad for the community is that it says that trips are bad
He says Mindmed is specifically structured at doing something that may hurt the field
Book Recommendations
Dave recommends two books that give insight on organizations and language use
Dave mentions a book that helps centrist people understand systemic issues around inequality, The Jungle
He recommends to the activist community, Nixonland, of the rise of the culture war
Consumer Education
It could be wise to have consumers decide the market
“The fact that the field is more precarious, actually puts more incentive to act ethically, especially for patient care.” – Dave
Dave says at NorthStar they ask, “In what ways do you build power to incentivize or pressure ethical action across the ecosystem at large?”
Joe says a lot of the stuff happening in psychedelics are by people that are underfunded and underpaid
NorthStar is not an industry association
NorthStar Pledge
It’s a starting point to a dialogue on ethics
The NorthStar Pledge is on integrity and ethics
How do people in the field who care about this, talk about ethics?
Kyle says capitalism has influence on systemic issues
He says that people who embody psychedelic influences, are typically ethical
Being capitalistic, usually equates to bad ethics, but how do we embody the psychedelic wisdom to create a new model and change the capitalistic model to be more ethical?
Capitalism
Is capitalism really bad?
Imagine how capitalism would look if it were run by women and people of color, individuals who systematically don’t operate with power
Imagine if companies were run by ethics, and not by money or power
Final Thoughts
At NorthStar, there are 3 women in high leadership positions
Dave wants to see more women and people of color in leadership positions
Dave says he is so proud by the leadership who runs NorthStar
Dave McGaughey serves as Creative Director for Auryn Project, a non-profit incubator in the psychedelic field supporting heart-lead, highly effective organizations scaling equitable, affordable psychedelic medicine. He is a founding member of North Star, an initiative dedicated to centering integrity and ethics in the heart of the emerging psychedelic field, starting with the North Star Ethics Pledge. Dave is the author of We Will Call It Pala, a short work of graphic fiction exploring one potential future for psychedelic commercialization. Dave has done graphic design and web development for Auryn Project, North Star and Sage Integrative Health. Prior to psychedelics, Dave worked in Natural Foods and has brewed kombucha commercially and personally for more than ten years.
In today’s episode, Joe and Kyle sit down with Dr. Mike Hart. In the show they talk about Cannabis and Ketamine used as medicine.
3 Key Points:
The main uses for Cannabis are for chronic pain and mental health. CBD is really good for people with inflammation.
When it comes to any psychedelic/plant medicine therapy, it’s all about agency. The power lies within the individual, the therapy and the drug are just tools to help the person obtain the power to heal themselves.
Ketamine is a useful treatment for depression. It’s instant, a patient can take it and it’s effective right away, where typical antidepressants may take 4-6 weeks to kick in.
Show Notes
About Dr. Mike Hart
He attended Med school on Saba Island
Then he came to Ontario where he did his residency
8 months after practicing he started prescribing cannabis
He got into cannabis because it’s a great alternative to opioids and pain pills, etc.
Cannabis
The main uses for Cannabis are for chronic pain and mental health
CBD is really good for people with inflammation
CBD is good for anything with -itis like arthritis, etc
THC is found to be much better than CBD for things like sciatica and nerve pain
Kyle mentions that when he takes CBD he has flashbacks of ayahuasca dreams/experiences
CBD is not psychoactive in that it doesn’t get you high
Kyle says that people can have spiritual experiences just by breathing, so the
CBD is just another vehicle that helps
Adding a small amount of THC to CBD isn’t going to potentiate it, but there may be an entourage effect that can be a further benefit to a patient
Don’t use more than 2.5mg of THC with CBD if you don’t want psychoactive effects
Mike says that some people use CBD isolate, and that’s great, but like an egg, it’s best not to eat just the egg whites, it’s best to eat the whole egg to get all of the benefits
So just like eating the whole egg, the best way to get all the benefits of cannabis is to use/consume the whole plant
There are definitely situations where using the whole plant is best, and other situations where isolation is best
Cannabis and Therapy
Anxiety can be treated very well with exposure therapy
Exposure therapy is exposing something you’re afraid of, and exposing it over and over until its not an anxiety anymore
CBD can decrease learned fear
PTSD is a learned fear
“The people who end up doing the most in life, are the people who have had the most trauma. We need to tell people that their trauma does not define them.” – Mike
It’s all about personal agency
It’s not about the drug, its you
It’s not about therapy, its you
The power is in you, its just learning how to harness and use that power
Mike says your relationships, your job, and your health are the three most important things to master
Going without something makes you more grateful for that thing
Ketamine
Mike has been prescribing Ketamine for just over a year now
It is helpful for mental health and chronic pain
Ketamine is really useful for treatment resistant depression
He prescribes Ketamine orally
He advises his patients to take it in the morning as soon as they wake up on an empty stomach
If it is taken that way, they get a psychoactive effect, and he thinks that it is the most effective way
Its instant, a patient can take it, and its effective right away, where typical antidepressants may take 4-6 weeks to kick in
Michael Hart, MD is the medical director and founder at Readytogo Clinic in London, Ontario. Readytogo Clinic focuses on cannabinoid medicine, but also offers family medicine services, IV vitamin therapy and specialized hormone testing. Dr. Hart is a recognized speaker on the topic of cannabis. He has spoken at CME events throughout Ontario, multiple cannabis conferences and has been featured on a variety of cannabis websites. In March of 2017, Dr. Hart released a free Ebook with his co-author Jeremy Kossen. Dr. Hart has seen first hand how the opioid epidemic is affecting our population and wanted to take action by finding a solution. Dr. Hart believes that cannabis is an excellent alternative to opioids and has seen excellent results in his practice. Dr. Hart emphasizes lifestyle changes in his medical practice and follows a low carb diet himself. Dr. Hart actively trains MMA at Adrenaline Training center and follows a comprehensive strength and conditioning program.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s Episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to talk about therapists being unprepared to talk to people taking psychedelics, the drug war and more.
Should there be some sort of body regulating therapist training in integration?
Should there be a standardized training?
There are going to be good therapists that care, and go out of their way and get the training, and there will be bad therapists, that do harm
It’s a long and difficult topic
Should people be going to jail for being bad therapists?
Looking at breathwork, there are training groups, but there isn’t one large, overarching group that governs all trainings
“Are we acting with integrity if we aren’t bringing the utmost safety to the table?” – Joe
Group Setting Impact
How is COVID going to impact psychedelic tourism?
In breathwork, people are potentially coughing, crying, and in general just doing heavy breathing, COVID is super contagious
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Eamon Armstrong, host of the Podcast, Life is a Festival. In the show, they talk about Eamon’s Iboga experience, the festival culture, rites of passage, ethics and more.
3 Key Points:
Eamon Armstrong is the host of Life is a Festival, a podcast promoting a lifestyle of adventure and personal development through the lens of festival culture.
Maya is an intelligence platform for psychedelic therapists to manage their clients and their protocols.
Rites of Passage can look different for everybody, they can look like going to Africa to be initiated in an Ibogaine ceremony, to attending Burning Man.
Show Notes
About Eamon
Eamon is the host of the Podcast, Life is a Festival
It’s not about festivals, it’s about how to make life like a festival
Eamon is very passionate about mental wellness
After graduating college, he felt very lost
He was throwing mushroom tea parties, making electronic music with his friends
The key to throwing a mushroom tea party is to have people drink less mushrooms than they think that they’re drinking, everyone just thinks they are tripping harder than they were
He went to Burning Man in 2010
He started working in social media for Burning Man’s off playa events
Psychedelics and harm reduction became core to their editorial voice
He worked closely with Psychedelic Peer Support, Zendo, Kosmicare, etc
Ibogaine Experience
Eamon attended an Iboga retreat in Gabon, Africa, and he says it was more about the retreat than the Iboga
He was in the chamber for 5 days, and he was alone in it
This retreat was in the Bwiti religion
He really went there for a full sledgehammer experience
He felt he had some addicted aspects that were hindering his sexual experiences
Iboga goes to the root of the trauma and shows you where the addictive pattern of behavior is
Iboga has a long integration period
Iboga is a root, and he consumed it in a form of a tangled nest
He felt very blasted open from the experience
Iboga took him directly to his anger
“We have in our modern Western Culture, a lot of lost, young people” – Eamon
“The value of a rite of passage, is that you are confronted with certain things that you can’t get to on your own” – Eamon
The fact that you can die in an Iboga experience, is part of the initiation
Rites of Passage
Burning Man isn’t a rite of passage, but it can be used as a rite of passage
Burning Man is a temporary experience in civic living, it is not orchestrated by elders
There is a growing topic on psychedelic parenting, and taking psychedelics with children
Maya
Maya is designed in partnership with psychedelic practitioners & ceremony leaders
Maya is an intelligence platform for psychedelic therapists to manage their clients and their protocols
Ethics in psychedelics are so important right now
This does not replace the therapist, it’s everything the therapist needs to support their clients in healing
“The ecosystem itself will thrive when we are all working in service to each other” – Eamon
“If you want to be a part of the cool kids, and the cool kids are doing it ethically, then you have to do it ethically” – Eamon
Final Thoughts
The soul is the most beautiful thing
“Psychedelics as medicine, treat society, beyond individuals” – Eamon
Eamon Armstrong is the creator and host of Life is a Festival, promoting a lifestyle of adventure and personal development through the lens of festival culture. He is the former Creative Director and public face of Chip Conley’s industry-leading online festival guide and community Fest300, where he was a global community builder. Eamon’s belief in the transformational power of psychedelics led him to take part in a traditional Bwiti initiation in Gabon, and to become a trained Sitter with MAP’s Zendo Project. Eamon is a passionate advocate for mature masculinity and offers public talks and workshops from mythopoetic men’s work to stand-up comedy on integrating masculinity.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s Episode, Kyle and Joe sit down with Brett Greene, who was the very first guest on Psychedelics Today four years ago. In response to last week’s episode on the Corporadelic topic, Brett comes on the show to talk about companies and drug discovery.Show Notes
Brett Greene
Brett Greene was the very first guest on Psychedelics Today four years ago
Brett and Kyle originally met at the Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics conference in New York City in 2013.
He works at The Center for Drug Discovery
Drug Development
At his new company, they are making drugs from tryptamines that are more predictable
His team has not only done this countless of times with the FDA, they have also done it with psychedelics
Ethics
The psychedelic movement doesn’t own psychedelics, they don’t own molecules, but they do own their history
“We should get away from the right and wrongness of the mechanics, and get into the right and wrongness of the ethics” – Brett
“Patents are the language of invention” – Brett
“An ethical charter is one that covers cognitive liberty, business ethics, and responsibility and accountability for patient safety” – Brett
What are the minimal acceptable requirements when doing this work?
Final Thoughts
We need to be kind with each other
We need to balance truth with kindness and compassion
For those interested in a work postiton email Brett@adeliatx.com
About Brett Greene
Brett works in research administration under Alexandros Makriyannis, one of the world’s top cannabinoid researchers. His job consists of a multitude of functions, ranging from administrative support for a team of 15+ grant submitting scientists to lab equipment and lab management, and diverse recruitment for NIH grants.
In this episode, Joe interviews Tom and Sheri Eckert, organizers of the Oregon Psilocybin Therapy Initiative. The IP 34 is the bill that would legalize psilocybin therapy.
3 Key Points:
IP 34 asks the Oregon Health Authority to create a licensing system that will create a regulated program where Oregonians suffering from depression, anxiety, trauma and other challenges can see a licensed and trained facilitator to receive supervised psilocybin therapy.
IP 34 was written by licensed therapists in Oregon along with the country’s leading advocates in the field. It is supported by healthcare professionals, treatment providers, veterans’ groups and community leaders across the state.
There has been a multitude of studies from leading medical research institutions such as Johns Hopkins, UCLA, and NYU showing that psilocybin therapy works.
Show Notes
About
Tom and Sheri began their interest in psilocybin research about 5 years ago when they read an article in The New Yorker by Michal Pollan
They realized how powerful psilocybin was for clinical work
They are both therapists, and were inspired to find out if there was a way to create a modality that allowed them to provide psilocybin therapy to help their clients
Psilocybin Assisted Psychotherapy
Psychotherapy is supposed to be experiential, the breakthrough is where the change happens
Sheri says that psilocybin therapy gets all parts of the brain in communication together
“The more intense the mystical experience the more clinical outcomes that are achieved” – Tom
Ballot Initiative
They started in 2015
They wanted the breakthrough studies and the research proving low risks to work for them
The psychedelic community was very helpful
They went through rotations with the way the initiative was written
They like the therapy model, its safe, careful and mindful
Clause
Joe asks about a Supremacy Clause, where the state supersedes local districts
This initiative does not get in the way of any other initiative
There are angles on all different types of drug policy reform
There is nothing in the IP34 that blocks any other initiative like decriminalization
We are all a part of the big picture, we all need to work together
GMP Psilocybin
They wanted to keep this in the frame of non-commercialization
Their goal with this is not about money, it’s really about the healing
“We are trying to move forward a healing modality to help people, we are trying to legalize psilocybin assisted psychotherapy” – Tom
There is a part in the initiative that says measures will have to be taken to make sure the psilocybin is ‘food grade’ standard or in general just clean and safe
As husband-and-wife founders of the Oregon Psilocybin Society (OPS) and authors of the Psilocybin Service Initiative (PSI), Tom and Sheri Eckert have set in motion a historic campaign to legalize Psilocybin Services, also known as Psilocybin Assisted Therapy, in their home state of Oregon. A growing number of Oregonians are getting behind the idea, largely in response to the latest science. The Eckerts, with a growing army of volunteers, are spreading a truth held increasingly self-evident: that the psilocybin experience, when facilitated under safe and supportive conditions, can be a life-changing gift.In addition to their activism, the Eckert’s own and operate “Innerwork” – a private psychotherapy practice serving the Portland metro area. Included in their catalog of services is their groundbreaking “Better Man” program, which is shown to neutralize intimate partner and family violence. Sheri has been awarded a Cosmic Sister Women of the Psychedelic Renaissance in support of her presentation at the Spirit Plant Medicine conference.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk mostly about Corpora-delic, companies and wealthy individuals investing in the psychedelic industry.
The CEO, Jason Hobson says, “The current health pandemic has resulted in a societal shift in the way we think about our health and the importance of access to treatment, both physical health and mental health. Ei.Ventures believes this is the right time to lean into mental health issues such as mood disorders and addiction, and eventual access to therapeutic treatments from innovations in botanical compounds that have been around for thousands of years.”
Joe and Kyle say that there is so much money coming in, and it worries the psychedelic community because they aren’t used to seeing capitalism
Joe says that he hopes that some patents don’t equate to ruining access
“Are these companies going to bully the smaller organizations out of existence so that diversity doesn’t really exist in the way we think it should?” – Joe
Medical is a great model, but it should be reduced to that only
Kyle says the sacred-ness feels like it may be taken away, and big companies just look at it as a commodity
“Not everyone sees this opportunity for entrepreneurship as a good thing. For researchers looking into the efficacy of psychedelics for therapeutic purposes, these substances are far more than a market opportunity—they’re potentially life-saving medications. And after decades of prohibition, psychedelics are just barely gaining mainstream acceptance.’ – from the article
People are bold enough to stand up to companies they don’t agree with It’s no joke how much money was spent on making Tim Leary look bad
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is launching a new drug program for treating soldiers with PTSD, depression, anxiety, and drug addiction, and it is drawing inspiration from psychedelic research.
Kyle mentions that this is tricky, its both a biochemical and experiential thing
Will eliminating the hallucinations ruin the experience?
Joe says that there are some people that are so unstable that a psychedelic experience can be really a lot
Joe also says that there arent alot of drugs that their use needs to be supervised (medically) and psychedelics are some of them
If we aren’t coming from psychedelic values when bringing these substances into the mainstream, then what are we doing?
What are psychedelic values?
Valuing the planet, valuing your place in the planet, a sense of connection, cooperation vs. competition, how do we honor a lineage or where these medicines come from? these could be some psychedelic values
Following the permaculture principles and applying them to life is a great tool for systems thinking
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe interviews Amanda Feilding, Founder and Director of The Beckley Foundation. In the show, they cover topics on psychedelic research, policy work, regulation, and the benefits of psychedelics in a time of crisis.
3 Key Points:
The Beckley Foundation pioneers psychedelic research to drive evidence-based drug policy reform, founded and directed by Amanda Feilding as a UK-based think-tank and NGO.
There is some interesting research happening around LSD expanding the neuroplasticity of the mind and increasing neurogenesis.
We are in the midst of a mental health crisis, especially in the West, and psychedelics may be helpful in improving mental health.
Show Notes
The Beckley Foundation
Amanda says she felt alone for a long time, they were taking a scientific approach, and it was much too serious for the underground
The Beckley Foundation is doing policy work, medical work, scientific work, etc
Amanda has a passion for science, but felt a social responsibility to do the policy work
It’s a very destructive work with ‘drugs’, because they are all under the same umbrella, but we psychedelic enthusiasts know, that psychedelics are beneficial and different than other drugs
Joe mentions he always thought how crazy LSD sentencing is, in some places it is longer than murder charges
“The ego is really a mirror of the government, and it can be much too restrictive and damaging” – Amanda
LSD
LSD increases cognitive function by expanding the networks of integrative centers in the brain
Amanda thinks that LSD is better at increasing cognition than mushrooms
She says they are doing exciting work with LSD and how it expands neuroplasticity of the mind, and how it increases neurogenesis
She thinks we haven’t really even scratched the surface of exploring the benefits of these compounds
Joe says he is hearing about a lot of athletes using LSD as a performance enhancing drug
Neuroplasticity is like when the brain becomes hot metal and it can adapt and change
Crisis
We have a horrible mental health crisis in the west, 1 in 3 teenage girls are depressed
Out of all death causes in the US, air pollution is one of the largest
“Our society needs a paradigm shift” – Amanda
Amanda says that she doesn’t believe that all people need to take psychedelics, but that they can be very beneficial
Regulation
Joe says he would love to see regulation everywhere
The cause of most drug harms are prohibition
Portugal and Switzerland are great models for boosting public service
Recognizing the potential benefits helps (starting with medical but not stopping there)
Final Thoughts
We are all moving in the right direction
The spreading of knowledge and education is the right path
The intuitive gains are the main benefits of these altered states of consciousness
Amanda Feilding has been called the ‘hidden hand’ behind the renaissance of psychedelic science, and her contribution to global drug policy reform has also been pivotal and widely acknowledged. Amanda was first introduced to LSD in the mid-1960s, at the height of the first wave of scientific research into psychedelics. Impressed by its capacity to initiate mystical states of consciousness and heighten creativity, she quickly recognised its transformative and therapeutic power. Inspired by her experiences, she began studying the mechanisms underlying the effects of psychedelic substances and dedicated herself to exploring ways of harnessing their potential to cure sickness and enhance wellbeing. In 1996, Amanda set up The Foundation to Further Consciousness, changing its name to the Beckley Foundation in 1998.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk about current topics in the news including MindMed, psilocybin synthesis, treating climate grief with psychedelics, psychedelic decriminalization and more.
MindMed is a psychedelic Pharmaceutical company that is exploring LSD and patenting anything they find during the research
Joe comments and says that organizations like Zendo are able to do optimal work and we don’t necessarily need a Pharma company to help in recreational/festival settings
But in a clinical setting, this is more necessary
“Are these big companies coming into the space as allies are not?” – Joe
Joe says he thinks they are part of the ecosystem, for better or worse
Joe says, imagine if drugs were legal, they would be so much safer
Kyle questions what legalization would look like not in a capitalistic market
There is a lot of reason why people choose not to play in commodified markets
“How do we know what is true? How do we know what is helpful for us?” – Joe
Joe says lets not have a quick easy answer
“It’s infeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms and the best chemical synthesis methods require expensive and difficult-to-source starting substrates” – a quote from the article
If COVID wasn’t a thing currently, it looks like decrim would happen in the belly of the beast, in D.C.
Despite the public health crisis, its looks like citizens want to reassess entheogenic use
“When there is hardship, creativity seems to spike” – Joe
Joe says to check out the microdose VR by Android Jones
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Melissa Stangl and Daniel Cleland, Co-founders of Soltara Healing Center. They talk about integration, Shipibo healing lineage, accessibility of psychedelics, and psychedelic tourism.
3 Key Points:
Soltara is a Healing Center dedicated toward integration as well as practicing and preserving the Shipibo tradition of Ayahusca healing.
It doesn’t make sense to take nature based traditions and turn it into instant gratification and business. The further you get from tradition, the less beneficial it may be.
Tourism for Ayahuasca can bring both harm and benefits to the local community. Reinforcing the heritage, paying the healers very well and giving back to the forests in terms of sustainability are all ways that Soltara is using Ayahuasca tourism to help the local communities.
Show Notes
About Melissa
Melissa originally comes from the STEM field
She was working in corporate America and was in search for a deeper meaning
She met Dan and after joining one of his initial ayahuasca journeys into Peru, it changed her mindset about healing
Dan looked for someone to help him after starting up his first ayahuasca center in Peru, and so she dropped everything and moved to the jungle to make it happen
After witnessing the healing potential working within the Shipibo tradition, and the need for integration within the community, she later founded Soltara with Dan in Costa Rica
About Daniel
Daniel grew up in a small town in Canada
He followed the typical life trajectory, go to school, go to college, get a job, etc
He didn’t have big ambitions at the time, very in line with the middle class area that he grew up in
After entering the work-force, he was in un-ambitious jobs
He thought “are there just 30 years of doing this until this is over?”
He felt a strong pull towards South America
He was very close to nature in his upbringing
He got a job leading tours
He had a personal crisis that led him to do some soul searching
Within the span of a few years, the trajectory pushed him to build his own healing center in Peru
Pillars of Soltara
They feel very strongly about having the Shipibo healers lead the ceremony, and everything that they (Mel, Dan and the team) do is to help honor the tradition
They focus a lot on integration
For the Shipibo culture, their life is integraton, but for a lot of people that are coming from the Western world and other places, that is not the case
They started collaborating with clinical psychologists to help create a program that puts the retreat at the start of the program, the work comes after
Soltara includes a workbook for integration afterward
Our transition times in modern life are shamed, getting your period, having a mid life crisis, having a psychedelic experience, but these experiences can be very sacred
“Connecting to the sacredness of life is so healing and so needed for modern-day society” – Melissa
Container for Safety and Integration
The sensationalism is more around the experience itself
People think that you just go in and have the experience and then your life is changed forever and that is not the case
A place where people not only can find who they are, but then be who they are in that container, and meet people and create community, is so powerful
Kyle said when he attended his retreat there, he can’t shake how safe he felt He said it really stood out to him, for someone who is looking at integration and so involved in this field
“I would like to bring people to this tradition in a way that is accessible, and I think that starts with safety” – Melissa
Corporadelic
There are new products, treatment centers, etc
The further away you get from tradition, the less beneficial it may be
Dan says it doesn’t make sense to take nature based traditions for instant gratification, monopoly, and business
The ceremony is the healing part, the ayahuasca allows one to connect with the plants, and that it is just the songs in ceremony that really create the healing
Melissa says she understands that the science is helping the movement, but she is so afraid that big corporations will just run with this and ruin tradition around it
Kyle says during his experience at Soltara, he just felt flooded with gratitude to experience the medicine healing in nature and in the Shipibo culture, where it is natural
Ayahuasca Tourism
Tourism for Ayahuasca causes harm but also brings benefits to the community too
Dan says they are expanding the work, they are not taking away from the traditions
It takes a certain capacity to travel to the jungle, speak the language, figure out where to go, how to get there, and how to receive healing is not typically possible for the vast majority of people
The Shipibo is receiving really good pay doing this work, which isn’t typically possible for the indigenous people
This is also reinforcing the heritage, encouraging the children to continue the traditional path
Now it’s not only a cultural heritage, it’s also a way to make a living for the community members
You don’t cut down trees to grow ayahuasca, you grow ayahuasca among the trees, so it’s protecting the jungle
In recent years there has been more information and collective awareness to ask the hard questions, Bia Labate has been on the forefront of this, asking the indigenous leaders the important questions of how to keep Ayahuasca tourism sustainable, beneficial and protected
Sustainability
They just completed a fundraiser for the Amazon
They have been collaborating with Amazon Watch, and they raised over $10,000
They are working to plant new Ayahuasca, not to harvest but just to put back into the jungle
Final Thoughts
Melissa suggest listeners to watch Reconnect, a movie about a man’s journey to Soltara
After taking a leap of faith in September 2015 to step out of Corporate America and into the Amazon jungle, Melissa has since used her background in engineering, science, and management to help advance the plant medicine and psychedelic movements – first by helping run a top-rated ayahuasca center in Peru as Operations Manager, and then as Director of Business Development – and now as Founding Partner and COO for Soltara. She is passionate about using her technical, managerial, and problem-solving skills to help bridge the gap between the Western world and the incredible healing potential of plant medicines and holistic health. Melissa is honored to be a part of this project and working with such a high-quality team that understands the importance and sacredness of this work. Her ethos is one of authenticity, professionalism, respect for tradition, transparency, and high-quality service. These mutual tenets are the team’s vision for Soltara as a whole, and she is grateful to take part in creating a space that is a strong conduit for healing, sustainability, and knowledge, empowering each guest to become global beacons for positive change.
About Daniel Cleland
Daniel Cleland is the Founding Partner/Chairman and CEO of Soltara Healing Center. He is an international entrepreneur, traveller, and author of the book, Pulse of the Jungle: Ayahuasca, Adventures and Social Enterprise in the Amazon. Originating in Walkerton, Ontario, he has spent over a decade globe-trotting and hosting group tours all over Latin America and in the deepest parts of the Amazon to work with traditional indigenous medicine practices. After completing his Master’s of Intercultural and International Communication, Daniel founded the company Pulse Tours, a company operating in Peru which became one of the highest rated shamanic retreat centers in the world before he sold it completely in 2017. He believes in supporting sustainability initiatives around the world, such as a free solar power installation that he spearheaded for an entire village in the Amazon in 2017, and the work being done by Amazon Rainforest Conservancy, a Canadian NGO wherein Daniel sits as a member of the advisory board.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk about the Shadow Panel, embracing the weird in psychedelia, what is real, re-examining ‘normal’, and more.
Show Notes
Shadow Panel
Topics in the Panel include
Ayahuasca retreat centers
Maximization culture to use psychedelics for optimization
Ketamine therapy and shadow as aspects of character
It is a study of the spiritual provocations to be found in the work of Philip K. Dick, Terence McKenna, and Robert Anton Wilson
It’s a really nice survey of the weird
“Are you acknowledging what you’re getting by believing something is true? It’s a part of your analysis”
Joe says if you’re into the weird stuff in psychedelics, this book is for you. If you are only into the clinical stuff, then this is good for you.
Kyle says sometimes we don’t give enough credit to the weirdness in the psychedelic space
Corporadelic is a means of spiritual bypassing
The weirdness is core to what the psychedelic experience is
What is Real?
Psyche means more than just mind
When its mind, body, spirit, breath, it seems more accurate
It is worth reading Alfred Whitehead and James Fadiman, Philosophy is important
We are trying to understand and have helpful language around the psychedelic experience
“There are no whole truths, there are only half truths”
Kyle said that at the core of our being, how do we know what is true and real?
At the fundamental truth of what real is, Kyle says that sitting in the CAT scan machine and being on the brink of death, that’s the only place where truth sits for him
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe interviews Michelle Janikian, Author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion. In the show, they talk about Michelle’s book, the need to speak about the unspoken, and how psychedelic experiences differ for everyone.
3 Key Points:
Michelle Janikian is Author of the book, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, an easy-to-use guide to understanding magic mushrooms, from tips and trips to microdosing and psychedelic therapy.
Psychedelics can help people, but they don’t solve all problems. Doing the homework after an experience is so important.
The psychedelic subculture has a lot of repressed stuff going on like sexual abuse. We need to speak about the things that aren’t necessarily good for the movement, we need to talk about all of it.
Show Notes
About Michelle
Michelle was originally a cannabis journalist
Then she was a staff writer for Herb
She then started writing her own book, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion
So much has been happening with mushrooms lately, and Michelle thought we really needed a resource on how to use mushrooms safely
Ulysses Press did a few Cannabis books
Michelle was approached by them, they wanted to do a mushroom guide
She first took mushrooms when she was 17
She took them for fun, but had so many deep and meaningful experiences too
Michelle believes there are multiple right ways to use psilocybin, either therapeutically, ceremonially, recreationally, etc.
“As long as you’re being safe with your surroundings, and with yourself, anyway is the right way (except for the fact that they are still illegal)” – Michelle
In places where mushrooms are decriminalized, she mentions it totally changes your comfort level and experience when you’re not so afraid to have them on you
Retreat
Michelle just volunteered as a trip sitter at a week long women’s retreat in Mexico at Luz Eterna Retreats
She says she doesn’t have all the answers, but the group environment can be really great for some, and not good at all for others
She suggests, “do what feels right for you”
Routes of Administration
There isn’t one ideal form of administration across all drugs
Joe says one route of administration may be good for one person, and not for another
You can powder the mushrooms and put them into capsules, put them on food, eat them plain, make a tea out of them, etc
Michelle says she has a great recipe in her book for mushroom tea to prevent nausea
Different for Everyone
Michelle felt a calling to write the book because she says many other books and publications were coming out, and she didn’t want some people to feel upset when psychedelics didn’t just ‘heal them’
She says psychedelics help her, but they don’t solve all of her problems
Doing the homework after an experience is so important
The Unspoken
She says she feels uninspired to write about the ‘black and white’, the same old, stereotypical narrative
She wants to write about the grey, the unexpected, the in-between
Michelle asks how do we talk about the things that aren’t right for the movement? Like the sexual abuse that happens in this space
This psychedelic subculture has a lot of repressed stuff going on, and how do we talk about it?
We need to keep learning in this field to keep improving, it is dense and detailed
Michelle leaves us with a final thought, “read more books written by women!”
Michelle Janikian is the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, the down-to-earth guide that details how to use magic mushrooms “like an adult.” As a journalist, she got her start writing about cannabis for publications like High Times, Rolling Stone and Herb. Now, she writes a column for Playboy on all things drug related and also contributes regularly to DoubleBlind Mag, MERRY JANE, Psychedelic’s Today and others. She’s passionate about the healing potential of psychedelic plants and substances, especially psilocybin and cannabis, and the legalization and de- stigmatization of all drugs. Michelle studied writing and psychology at Sarah Lawrence College before traveling extensively in Latin America and eventually settling down in southern Mexico. Born in New York City and raised in New Jersey, Michelle ventures back to the States a few times a year to give talks and workshops on safe mushroom use and other cannabis and psychedelic related topics.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s episode with Kyle and Joe, they cover current events on psychedelics for treatment of COVID-19 trauma, an article on single dose psilocybin effects, psychedelic investments, self care and more.
The article states, the researchers found that self-reported emotional distress was reduced one week after psilocybin administration, but returned to baseline levels at one month after psilocybin administration
There were a few doctors and people that didn’t understand the value of psychedelics being used as psychiatric tools
Kyle thinks especially of all of the first-responders that are working non stop, without a break, for weeks on end, witnessing tons of people dying daily, and then trying to come back and process this
The mental health, long term of these people is going to be so impacted
Then we have to think about the people that can’t come together for a funeral after they lose someone
This pandemic is going to be traumatizing for people
Joe says this looks like a global ego death, all of the systems that we have had before are not adequate
The Spanish flu of 1918 was only a few years away from the Great Depression
We know that traumas influence health and behaviors, but we have tools and technologies to get ahead of this, from an epigenetic standpoint
Psychedelic Investments
Kyle and Joe talk for a while about psychedelics and money and research and funding
It’s a tricky thing, because we want there to be funding to make this accessible, but we want people to invest with integrity and to not start a monopoly on the funding
Joe says we (as a company) have been approached by investors, but we have been hesitant to stay with our vision, keep our integrity and stay on track with our mission
Self Care
Kyle says stay in the present moment, limit news consumption (watch it maybe once a day to know what’s going on, but then put the phone down and not drown in it)
It’s helpful to develop more of a spiritual practice in this time (yoga, meditation)
Self care is going to look different for everybody
Joe says ‘Maslow it’, get good sleep, drink good water, satisfy basic needs, those are first step during this time
Kyle says that he uses movement, somatic work, breathing into places in the body that are tense, etc
Kyle says that those who are doing a lot of online work, take time to move and stretch
This is a time to do a lot of work we have put off, but at the same time, its okay to give our bodies a break, take time to rest, get outside, find movement, etc
It’s important not to take on too much or do too many things
Psychedelics and the Shadow: A Series Exploring the Shadow Side of Psychedelia
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe invites previous guest, Dena Justice back on the show to continue the conversation on Neuro Linguistic Programming and non-ordinary states of consciousness.
3 Key Points:
93% of what we do on a day to day basis, is unconscious. If we can figure out how to work with that 93%, then we can really do some important things.
A lot of times we aren’t happy with our behavior, first we have to distinguish between cause and effect. With effect, you blame other people, but when you’re a cause in your life, you’re taking responsibility for what’s happening.
Creating new habits is hard at the conscious level, because it requires conscious thought. NLP focuses on the unconscious.
Show Notes
Last Episode
93% of what we do on a day to day basis, is unconscious
If we can figure out how to work with that 93%, then we can really do some important things
Communicating with the unconscious mind is kind of how we communicate with ourselves
NLP is all about our nervous system and what is coming in with our 5 senses, then the linguistic part is all about how we communicate what is happening in the body
NLP basically creates all of our behavior
The more we are able to understand how our unconscious mind works, the better we are able to get the outcomes we actually want
Outcomes
A lot of times we aren’t happy with our behavior
First we have to distinguish between cause and effect
When you’re at effect, you blame other people, but when you’re a cause in your life, you’re taking responsibility for what’s happening
“When we can help people be more at cause, they get those desired outcomes, and people start to get to where they want to go in life” – Dena
Perception is Projection
Whatever you’re believing that which is outside of yourself, it’s actually a reflection of you
Dena said that she won’t go to fitness classes simply because of the language they use
Altering your state through movement makes a person very vulnerable and the language can be very suggestive
What are we subjecting ourselves to everyday? When we sit down to watch TV or movies, we are in a trance-like state
Dena suggests being very careful to be aware of what we let in
Getting rid of barriers and obstacles to get where you want in life is the goal for NLP
Prepping the Unconscious Mind
Going to the gym is a habit so many people want to have and don’t
Creating new habits is hard at the conscious level, because it requires conscious thought
When we try to make decisions at the conscious level, it gets really difficult
“All learnings and behaviors, happen at the unconscious level” – Dena
“How many times did you have to tie your shoes consciously, before you tied your shoes, unconsciously?” – Dena
Most people don’t have good language running in the background, and that is a big reason why people are stuck in poor behaviors
Prime Directives of the Unconscious Mind
We create gestalts of emotions and experiences
A gestalt looks like a pearl necklace, and they are all related to each other
All of our experiences of our emotions (ex. anger) all get hooked together like a necklace
It’s a way that our mind organizes the information
When we learn to re-frame intentionally, we can take it as a tool into non-ordinary states of consciousness
Re-framing
In psychedelic experiences, we are re-framing the conscious mind, we shake loose of our gestalts
“We need to learn new tools in order to directly communicate with the unconscious mind” – Dena
When we can get to the ‘aha’ moment, we can create change more quickly
Limiting beliefs and negative emotions get in the way
Getting rid of limiting beliefs causes massive aligned action which leads to massive life change
Tools
Our unconscious mind loves following instructions
We tell the mind so many don’ts, ‘don’t cross the street, don’t walk on the grass, etc
We need to tell the mind exactly what to do
People are really clear about what they don’t want, but they aren’t always clear on what they do want
7% of what we are saying are just words, the other 93% is is how we say it, our emotions, our infections, are body positions, etc
Joe mentions somatic techniques, but that only goes so far, NLP takes it home
We learn language, but we don’t learn to be effective communicators
Workshop
Joe, Kyle and Dena are talking about doing a 5-day breathwork and NLP workshop in Sonoma, CA
Breathwork is such an amazing tool for non-ordinary state of consciousness
Until more news is released about the retreat/workshop, Dena invites listeners to take her course over at her website, Ecstatic Collective
As a master manifester, Dena has created a beautiful life for herself. She been financially responsible since age 15 including putting herself through college, two masters degrees and purchasing her own home in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has made over $1M in her life through a fulfilling career as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor and coach working with thousands of people across the country. She loved her career, yet hit a point where she felt empty. Near the top of her career ladder, she was a classic case of a high performer and leader hitting burnout. She chose a powerful pivot out of her J-O-B and into her own business. Now, she helps other high performers who have hit burnout and are scared to admit they’ve hit a plateau or a wall. She helps them get the eff out of their own way and move to the next level to increase their impact so they feel fulfilled and inspired again, as well as helping them create more wealth and the relationships they want in their lives. She helps people experience new levels of success, increase/improve focus and performance, abolish FOMO, evolve communication skills, develop transformational leadership skills, create amazing relationships, increase financial abundance and live life on their own terms.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s episode with Kyle and Joe, they cover current events on COVID-19, social media narratives, a new world, psycho-pharma, psychedelic VICE articles, movies about acid and more.
Show Notes
Coronavirus
Joe and his girlfriend are recovering from being sick, potentially coronavirus (they weren’t allowed to be tested without being hospitalized)
Joe said he was really sick in a new and novel way
Kyle is located in New Jersey (currently around 19,000 cases, close to 250 deaths)
He has a weak immune system, so he is trying to be super careful by staying isolated (he hasn’t left the house in weeks besides to go on a walk outside)
Joe says this whole thing is really going to impact humanity and life on earth
The ecosystem of commerce is fragile and this is a strong way of showing it
Kyle says that Drumpf estimated 250,000 deaths in the US
Joe says we are going to get through this, and life will go on, but what will that look like?
How can the conscious show up as leaders?
When we are in a fear state, we don’t make rational decisions
Narratives
Kyle says all of the psychedelic people that he is connected to on social media are posting so much on 5G right now
There are dual narratives, like people dying, but also a lot of info on conspiracies
What do we pay attention to, and what is really happening?
Joe said that he played in the conspiracy, occult area for a while, and he couldn’t find any solid ground
In times like this, the conspiracy media ramps up, because people are afraid, and that impairs cognition
There is a lot of media saying that COVID-19 is a biological weapon
There is a lot of unknowns, and how do we not panic?
Processing All of This
We were not evolved for this moment
Now, how do we evolve to handle this stuff?
How do we build resilience?
As ecosystems collapse, some organisms start to mingle with other organisms and then viruses like this can come up, and will pop up more in the future
We are in a spiritual emergence-y right now, we need to bring up our shadow and do the work
What can I actually do in my life right now? Instead of worrying about everything
A New World
90% of products in the consumer economy right now are completely non-essential
We are on a finite planet with finite resources don’t mesh with infinite growth
Hopefully this is the emergency that we need to re-imagine the future
There is a role that the psychedelic community plays in this
The psychedelic culture is familiar with sitting with shadow, doing the inner work, and taking a creative approach at alternative systems and reimagining the future
Kyle says this feels psychedelic, having new ideas about what the future could look like, what we can offer the future
A lot of the things that we wish for are starting to unfold, in some sense, the collective has been wishing for the things that are happening
When we take substances, we are upgrading our operating system
Psycho-Pharma
MindMed (Mind Medicine) call themselves a leading neuro-pharma company for psychedelic inspired medicines
Right now they are working on a compound, essentially an iboga-like drug
There is a lot of suffering happening in the world, and whatever tools that can help with the suffering will do
There is a roller coaster of the psychedelic experience
If every experience was just rainbows and happiness, it would just devalue the human experience
Kyle says think about it, that sitting in a chair for a few hours with music can easily induce a psychedelic experience
Joe says “the experience is within you, the drug is a key to help unlock that”
Shadow Panel
Kyle is co-hosting a Shadow Panel with Ido Cohen and takes on a Jung approach to process the shadow
They host interviews with doctors and other speakers on the topic
They explore a lot of somatics in the shadow
It is a donation based course right now, potentially paid in the future
Final Thoughts
Joe says we are heavily impacted by COVID-19, a ton of breathwork events all had to be cancelled
But we have a ton of online courses and resources available, from integration books, to online guided therapist and clinician courses, to psychedelic online courses, coaching, and more
Joe said he had a fun conversation with a film producer (Malibu Road) on the acid scene in the 70’s
The film cant be streamed yet, but the trailer is out
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dylan Beynon, founder of Mindbloom, NYC based mental health and wellbeing platform. In the show they talk about how Mindbloom differs from other centers, paving the way for accessibility and affordability.
3 Key Points:
Mindbloom is a next-generation mental health platform, catered to accessibility and affordability.
They use ketamine tablets, different from lozenges and any other method. The tablets are held in the mouth and then spit out to avoid entering the liver, causing a sedation-like experience.
Mindbloom differentiates themselves from other psychedelic therapy options by using a patient-choice model, to keep it affordable for those who need it. They offer the 4-week therapy model and give patients the option to choose ‘add-ons’ like extra integration.
Dylan is not a clinician or a doctor, he is an entrepreneur and a psychedelic medicine and therapeutic ketamine patient
These medicines have been transformative in his life and he wants to bring their benefits to the public
He grew up in a family that suffered greatly from mental illness
He lost his mother to addiction
He discovered positive psychology
When learning about the science of happiness, he realized that he wasn’t happy
He was in business school and wanted to be a banker and make a ton of money
He soon realized that money doesn’t buy happiness, and he thought maybe everything he was doing was a lie
He was self medicating with psychedelics
About 5 years ago he heard about psychedelic therapy
About 18 months ago he started working with a clinician doing ketamine therapy
He saw that when it’s done in a therapeutic context, it can have a profound effect for people to get the most out of it
“Recreational vs therapeutic use is a false dichotomy” – Dylan
Mindbloom
The goal is to build the next-generation mental health platform
Right now they are doing Ketamine therapy
They are trying to make it accessible by making it affordable
They are trying to bring an elevated client experience, which they do with the space and software
Software Background
Voters Friend – a platform to help inform voters on the candidates, to increase access to democracy
Mighty – increasing access to social justice
Mindbloom – increase access to psychedelic medicines
Differentiation
The protocols that Mindbloom are using are capped
They are increasing access to the medicines, making it affordable
They keep it at $150-$250 a session, where at most Ketamine Therapy centers, it can range from $1000-$2000 a session
Dylan says he makes this possible by bringing in technology and software tools to make the sessions for efficient and effective
They use patient choice care, where the patient can use their best judgement on how in depth they want their treatment
They can ‘add on’ extra integration time onto the therapy session, or choose not to
This keeps the price down and accessible for each individual patient if need be
Mindbloom is a 4 session program, usually 1-2 months
They use the platform to have the client practice using the information in the weeks between each session, so they can practice integration even when not with a therapist or in session
The Program
The clinician prescribes a 4 week Ketamine Therapy session for anxiety and depression
The clinician will schedule a video interview to learn their symptoms
Then they will meet in person and build an integration program if needed
Its $1000 for the 4 session program and $600 for the renewal program
They use Ketamine tablets (similar to lozenges but faster acting)
They’re not swallowing it, they spit it out after
If they swallow it, it breaks down in the liver into nor-ketaine, and that produces a sedative effect
After they spit it out, there is about an hour of music with no vocals
After the session, they move to an integration room where they are journaling
The protocols at Mindbloom were based on the MAPS protocol
They don’t have a clinician in the room during the experience, only for after the experience
Dylan is looking to expand to other locations
A lot of people request couples or group therapies, so they will be taking that into consideration when building new locations
Final Thoughts
The more people who are thinking critically about this and putting their intentions into making this more accessible the better
There needs to be more gentle conversation around psychedelics and therapy, especially around the people that are still so unaware about this field
We should bring sacredness, specialness, and care to the conversation with those who might still be afraid about it
Dylan is the Founder & CEO of Mindbloom, an NYC-based mental health and wellbeing startup helping people expand their human potential with clinician-prescribed, guided psychedelic medicine experiences. There, he is partnering with clinicians, technologists, researchers, and patients to increase access to science-backed treatments, starting by reducing the cost of ketamine therapy for depression and anxiety by over 65%. Dylan is a 10-year psychedelic medicine patient and 3-time tech entrepreneur with both $100M+ in funding and an exit in his prior startups, which were focused on increasing access to justice and democracy. Dylan graduated from The Wharton School at The University of Pennsylvania.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Ryan Westrum, Psychedelic Integration Therapist. In the show, they talk about topics and teachings from Ryan’s book, The Psychedelic Integration Handbook.
3 Key Points:
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live.
There is an important part in distinguishing integration from aftercare. Aftercare can look as simple as taking care of your body, getting good rest, eating well. You can’t integrate without taking care of yourself first.
One of the pillars of integration is PREP (purpose, reflecting on experiences, expectations, potential).
“As a western civilization, we have really minimized the opportunity for growth, the expansion of consciousness, and to be ourselves.” – Ryan
These experiences are powerful, and to come back to a culture that does not support it, is hard
The goal is being conscious with your confidence of why you’re doing this work
About the Book
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live
This is not a book with black and white answers but an offering to individual people who want to explore all the possibilities for being alive and seeking wholeness.
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook contains historical perspective, maps of consciousness, approaches for integrating body-mind-spirit, and practical suggestions for all stages of psychedelic exploration.
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook
The book was written for people to make it their own
Its broken into 3 parts, educational, a ‘your turn’ section, and then integration
Its about having a compartment, and then playing within the compartment
Everyone has unique nuances, integration looks different to everyone
Integration practices don’t matter if they don’t personally mean something to you
Integration
The question to help determine the integration needs is, “What does the individual lead with?”
It’s the mind, body, emotion in the spirit altogether
Immediately after a psychedelic experience, some want to talk about it, others embody it
Do they lead with thoughts or emotions?
There is a part in the book: The difference between integration and aftercare
How do we distinguish between self care and integration?
Is my body rested? Am I comfortable? Are my needs taken care of?
Aftercare is grounding
“If you’re not taking care of your body, you won’t be able to integrate” – Ryan
It might not be as complex as it needs to be, its as simple as taking care of yourself
An important part of aftercare, is asking yourself when it is okay to practice again
Ryan was mentored by James Fadiman, and he believed in taking big doses every 6 months
One of the pillars is PREP (purpose, reflecting on experiences, expectations, potential)
Ryan says he is not the gatekeeper
Controlling willpower is a huge step in integration
Some people want to just take psychedelics, but not write, or do yoga, or do any other mindful activity
Safety
Dose, set and setting are the obvious
It’s like a goldrush, some just want to jump in blindly
You have to understand what safety means to you
Ryan thinks we aren’t talking enough about the recreational use
He is excited about all of the conversation on therapeutic use, but he thinks we are ignoring recreational use
He wants to see ritual and reverence in the recreational community
Preparation is so important
Kyle says that a lot of times after an experience he has all of these ideas for how to live his life, and he tries to practice them, but sometimes he finds himself slipping into old patterns of behavior
Ryan says he believes there is still movement and progress, be gentle with yourself
Dr. Ryan Westrum, PhD, LMFT, is an internationally recognized psychedelic integration expert. For more than 15 years, his primary focus has been working with individuals and groups facilitating experiential therapy and integrating psychedelic journeys into healing and personal transformation. Ryan speaks on a myriad of topics and leads experiential groups, like dreamwork integration therapy and psychedelic integration groups.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Jessica DiRuzza, Psychotherapist, Astrologer and Teacher. In the show they talk about how astrology can be used as a tool and framework for navigating and understanding psychedelic experiences.
3 Key Points:
Astrology can be used as an integrative tool for psychedelic and other exceptional experiences.
The planets are emitting some type of force that are letting us behave a certain way. Astrology is the one thing we have agreed upon across millennia and era.
A Saturn Return transit can be a difficult but transformative time in one’s life. This transit happens around age 28-31. During this time, we face crises in our life as we take on greater responsibility. It can feel like death and a rebirth. It can correlate to Grof’s Perinatal Birth Matrix II (“No Exit” and “Cosmic Engulfment”).
She uses Astrology to help put meaning and understanding to what happens in visionary states
She received her bachelors at CIIS and studied and taught with Stan Grof and Richard Tarnes in the Philosophy, Cosmology and Consciousness Program
Since the 70’s, Stan Grof was following his transits and all the transits of his clients
Richard Tarnas and Stan Grof studied astrology as a diagnostic tool for those who would do psychedelics
They studied transit astrology
By looking at these transits, what they found were archetypal similarities
“Our solar system is an extension of our ecosystem here on earth.” – Jessica
“For millennia, the one thing that human beings have agreed upon across cultures and eras, are the meaning of the planets” – Jessica
Astrology is the original science
Free Will vs. Determinism
The planets are emitting some type of force that are letting us behave a certain way
They are reflective, what is happening in the sky is indicative of what’s happening here
Astrology is like a clock, a clock does not make it be a certain time, it just helps us tell the time
Interest in Astrology
Psychedelics brought Jessica to Astrology
Jessica went to her first Burning Man at 20 years old
She received an astrology reading there and said it broke her open
She went to CA to see the reader that gave her the initial reading
She did a high dose LSD session
She re-lived her birth experience, and gave birth to her new self
The person who gave her the reading was teaching with Stan Grof and Richard Tarnas at CIIS
She dropped out of college and moved to attend CIIS
She was in a Uranus conjunct Ascendant transit
Through these experiences she uprooted her entire life
Astrology Lingo
Sun represents our sense of self, our identity in the world, egoic consciousness
Moon represents our relational matrix, our early childhood experiences, our emotions and experiences, and a deep sense of belonging
Rising represents who we are from moment to moment, how we initially meet existence
Zodiac means belt of life
Each aspect carries a different quality
Conjunct means new moon, representing a new beginning
A full moon represents when the sun is opposite than the moon, a blossoming or fruition.
Astrology is a language, the language of the stars
There are so many ways to speak this language, and so many schools of thought
What really matters is the cosmology that goes behind the description
“Both astrology and psychedelics are a tools for self reflection, that hopefully we are using to become more kind and more caring” – Jessica
“Astrology provides a world view or a cosmology to hold what happens in those visionary states, it’s a grounding place to integrate and make meaning of what’s happening” – Jessica
Saturn Return
Saturn return happens from age 28-31
During our Saturn Return, we face crises in our life and take on greater responsibility
It can feel like a death, but also like a birth
“The greater the death, the greater the rebirth” – Jessica
The 4 bpms correspond to the four outer planets
It’s not just in entheogenic spaces that this is applicable
“Working with the resistance consciously, actually helps us move into what the divine or the universe wants us to step into our life, karmically, what we are here to do” – Jessica
Astrology and Psychedelics
Kyle asks about using astrology to pick a time of when to do psychedelics
Jessica responds saying that if you have a strong calling to do so for healing and balance, and you have all the components for proper integration, then it’s a good time
Then, astrology can be used to help find themes and help dissect the experience
Your Saturn transits contain a difference component in each person
The sense of responsibility grows in you
“My deepest calling in this life is to bring Astrology and Psychology together in one unified field” – Jessica
Final Thoughts
Jessica is so proud of the honest integrity that people are bringing to this work
She send best wishes in the great reckoning, and the great becoming
Jessica is a licensed psychotherapist, astrologer, and teacher. Her life is guided by a passion for engaging with people, understanding relationships, and staying connected to the larger world around us. This passion and curiosity led her into the healing profession as a counselor in 2007. For over a decade she has worked collaboratively with individuals, couples, and groups on their transformative journeys. Helping people on their path of exploration and healing is the privilege of a lifetime. Jessica received her Master’s in Counseling Psychology with an emphasis in Depth Psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute. She completed her undergraduate degree at California Institute of Integral Studies, where she studied and taught archetypal astrology and transpersonal psychology. Her greatest joy is working in sacred and revolutionary ways with people in psychotherapy, teaching, and astrological consultations. She also shares her work through podcasts and writing on her site.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Rob Heffernan, an independent researcher and activist. In the show, they talk about churches, Ayahuasca, accessibility and the Psychedelic Liberty Summit by the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. Rob is also part of Chacruna’s Council for the Protection of Sacred Plants.
The Council for the Protection of Sacred plants is “an initiative of the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines that endeavors to advocate for the legality of sacred plant medicines among indigenous peoples and non-indigenous communities, encourage legal harm reduction practices that protect those who use them, educate about conservation of plant species, document relevant legal and social issues, and consult on legal cases including possible litigation. ”
3 Key Points:
The Psychedelic Liberty Summit is a gathering on legal, cultural, and political issues around the emerging psychedelic renaissance.
Accessibility is not just about whether or not people can afford psychedelic therapy, people cant even afford regular therapy, the whole healthcare model is an issue.
A lot of churches get a bad name, but really most churches are built around community. Psychedelics can help revitalize churches.
Rob is a member of the Chacruna Council for protection of sacred plants
He is an integrative sound and music practitioner
He is involved in the Santo Daime
He has been drinking Ayahuasca for over 20 years
He began to ponder and ask a lot of questions about involvement with medicine communities
Psychedelic Liberty Summit
Rob will be hosting a talk on religious exemptions and more
There will be speakers of all different initiatives, from decriminalization to indigenous relations
There are a lot of investors interested in the psilocybin market
The issue is complex because there is this ongoing cultural history of the US and other countries exploiting those cultures and removing resources (oil, medicines, etc)
Ayahuasca
The first time Rob drank Ayahuasca was back in 2000, where there weren’t Ayahuasca retreats going on then
People who lived in the area were not familiar with Ayahuasca use
People started coming from around the world to use Ayahuasca
There are feedback loops between the cities and the forests
People typically think integration is what happens afterwards, but really it is also the sacrifice from the start, the preparation, such as a dieta
We need to honor what we have learned from the indigenous, and give back
Traditional dietas don’t involve actually drinking the Ayahuasca, the culture has come a long way
Accessibility
While these medicines are relatively safe, you can get in trouble using these substances recreationally, there is a role for the therapeutic support
It’s not just about whether or not people can afford psychedelic therapy, people cant even afford regular therapy, the whole healthcare model is an issue
Santo Daime
It was founded in the 1930’s in Brazil
The reason that the Santo Daime looks more white in the USA is due to the segregation
There are all sorts of ways that the Santo Daime may look
When Rob first got involved in drinking Ayahuasca, he wasn’t sure that he wanted to get involved in the Santo Daime, but he said the container was so strong
There are hymns sung, and it’s very structured
It allows you to really go deep
Sometimes it can look like drumming, dancing, and fire, but there is also a style of sitting in silence
There is a profound ethical foundation which is really important
All of the elements make for a really important container
In the traditional form, you do not touch anyone, unless there is a certain circumstance, and a prior consensual agreement, and waivers signed, etc
There have been issues of sexual abuse in the psychedelic realm, the Santo Daime takes many precautions against this
Churches
There are legal churches in the US through the Daime and the UDV (União do Vegetal)
The Daime has 5 churches that are explicitly legal
The government has decided not to pursue or prosecute Ayahuasca for those other churches
Someone tragically died at the Soul Quest Church, but it wasn’t related to ayahuasca
There are a lot of people that claim to be a part of a Native American church that are not
A lot of people reach out to Chacruna on how to become a part of the Native American Church to hold ceremonies, and it’s not easy, you almost have to already be a part of it, instead of just joining
Some people don’t like the word church, but it originates from the words ‘congregation’ and ‘assembly’
“The problem is the controlled substances act, that these things are illegal in the first place” – Rob
“The experience in all those settings is about community. The goal isn’t to have spiritual experiences, its to have a spiritual life” – Rob
Psychedelics and entheogens could be central to creating a new hub
It is possible to create psychedelic churches outside of the Santo Daime
The Ayahuasca tradition really uses the potential of group process
“How individual is the psychedelic experience, where you need some one-on-one work?” – Kyle
Psychedelic Liberty Summit
April 25-26 in San Francisco
Discount Code: PsychedelicsToday for 10% off at checkout
Rob Heffernan has been involved in the Peruvian curandero tradition and the Santo Daime for the last 16 years. He was a member and chairman of the North American Santo Daime Legal Committee for a number of years. He has been engaged in independent research and active in ad hoc groups promoting legal clarity and ethical integrity in the Ayahuasca Community. He is also a certified Integrative Sound and Music Practitioner; Shamanic Breath Work Facilitator; and a long time student and practitioner of Buddhist Dhamma. He has a BA in Communications and Social Studies from Fordham University, and works in the AV/IT communication industry.
In this episode, Joe interviews Clinical Psychologist, Alicia Danforth. In the show, they cover topics including how to get involved in the space, consent, research, MDMA, Autism and more.
3 Key Points:
Alicia Danforth is a Clinical Psychologist who will be having a talk on Ethical Challenges in Psychedelic Medicine at the ICPR Conference in the Netherlands, April 2020.
There is a possibility for MDMA to have a non-responder effect. No one has done research dedicated to why some people don’t react at all to MDMA.
Psychedelic science is very hard to talk about. We have the language of science that studies the psychopharmacological effects of drugs but no language that holds the effects of an altered state of consciousness yet.
Her path to her current place is such a random road that led her to where she is
She was going to burning man and getting into harm reduction when she realized the untapped value of psychedelics, its where her interest began
She began volunteering, doing administrative work for a doctor
She was offered to be a study coordinator
She got introduced to the power of psilocybin as a medicine, for dying cancer patients
The patients had a prognosis from 6 months to a year
To see how this state of consciousness helped people transition to the end of life so smoothly, that is what inspired her
5 months after she started working on the study, she got a cancer diagnosis
Getting Involved in the Space
Alicia would always get people approaching her about how to get in the field and she tells them “what field?”
Her Power Point making skills, are what technically got her involved in this field
“You never know what skill may be needed in this field” – Alicia
Alicia encourages people to look into their own collection of skills, and dig deep into that, find your niche, and then use that to contribute to the movement
Clinical therapists and psychologists are not the only people in this field We need accountants, marketers, etc
Consent
People start to get really religious around this field
Joe mentions a story where someone performed non-consensual reiki
Current Research
She is currently looking at why psychedelics appeal to people who typically like to abuse power
She did a talk at burning man about ‘coming down from the psychedelic power trip’
She tries to cite as many references and research as possible
Her talk at ICPR is going to be the very professional, version of that talk
Why are individuals who seek to abuse these tools so irresistibly drawn to psychedelics?
“If someone gets abused, and people say don’t come out about it because it’s not good for the movement, then what kind of movement is that?” – Joe
Empathogens
MDMA is known as an Empathogen
Can empathogens help people who are not empathetic, become empathetic?
Cohen’s D is the measure of effect size
Big pharma uses this all the time, to determine the effects of one drug compared to another
The Cohen’s D is how large that difference is
Non-response MDMA
There is a known, non-responder effect with MDMA
There was a few double-blind sessions, where the patient received MDMA, and they didn’t react, their vitals didn’t change
At the end, it was revealed that they truly received MDMA, and then even to be sure, they would do a blood test, and it showed up in the blood
No one has done research dedicated to why some people don’t react at all to MDMA
It’s probably common, that for people who are relying on MDMA to work as their last resort option and try it and not feel anything at all, to end their life afterward
Media and Support
It’s the most difficult thing in dealing with the media
When you are entirely dependent on funding, if you don’t talk about what you’re doing, then you can’t get funding at all
There is a crisis in science on the replicability on these studies
Joe says its cool to have these studies replicated outside of the US
“Psychedelic science is very hard to talk about due to the subjective nature of the psychedelic experience. We have the language of science that studies the psychopharmacological effects of drugs. There is no language that holds the effects of an altered state of consciousness yet.” – Alicia
The rapport that the patient and facilitator have, and the effect of that relationship, is a variable
Alicia received her doctorate in clinical psychology from the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto in 2013. Since 2006, she has worked in clinical research at the Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center on clinical studies for adults with anxiety related to advanced-stage cancer and with autistic adults who experience social anxiety. She is currently a lead clinician and supervisor for a clinical trial at UCSF for psychological distress in long-term survivors of HIV/AIDS. She is also certified in Trauma-Focused CBT and Focusing-Oriented Psychotherapy.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Mike Margolies of Psychedelic Seminars. In the show, they cover topics including guests and conversations from the Psychedelic Seminars, the decriminalization of all drugs, and the importance of allowing psychedelic use to be a part of training therapists for psychedelic therapy.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic Seminars is an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics.
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but the conversation on decriminalization of all drugs is rare, which is what’s really important.
Some companies (MAPS for example) allow the option to use MDMA as a part of their therapist training program while other companies who are training therapists for psilocybin therapy, don’t have the option to use it. This leaves the question, “Should the psychedelic experience be part of the psychedelic therapy training?”
The talks were on microdosing and the unknowns of microdosing
Just because there is no real harms taking a large dose of LSD, doesn’t mean there aren’t any harms taking a low (micro) dose of LSD frequently
Mike thinks that the term Jim Fadiman uses is its ‘sub-perceptual’, in that you have a noticeable effect on the mood, but no other way of noticing it
Decriminalization
Drug Policy tends to stay in the realm of psychedelics only
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but no one likes to talk about the decriminalization of all drugs, which is what’s really important
Poppy is not considered in decriminalize nature, which is selective nature decriminalization
It’s not a real decriminalization, it’s just a low priority for law enforcement
He’s been asking in his conversations, opinions on decriminalizing all drugs
Different drugs have different risk profiles
“Just because you’re not using criminal justice as your mechanism for reducing risks of drugs, doesn’t mean you do nothing. The last thing we want to do is add criminalization to those who are already suffering, this is why we should decriminalize all drugs” – Mike
Laws should be written in terms of what are you not allowed to do, not what you’re allowed to do
He is allowed to walk down the sidewalk, but not punch someone he walks past, but the law shouldn’t be to get a license for walking down the street so long as you don’t punch someone
The communities that are marginalized continue to be marginalized by the drug war
Psychedelic Therapy and Experience with Use
With MAPS, there is an option to do MDMA as a part of the training
With psilocybin, at least with Compass Pathways, there is not an option to use psilocybin. Mike says that’s a huge issue
When you scale treatment, there is the risk of losing the quality of care
“We aren’t going to solve the problems of our future by mass distributing psychedelics” – Mike
The fact that we have such mass amounts of widespread depression, means that we have a deeply ingrained systemic issue at hand
Psychedelics treat the symptoms, but we still need to fix the underlying cause
“If you are distributing psychedelics, but still exacerbating the same underlying issues, you now have the problem and solution in the same hefty package” – Mike
“Psychedelic experience is intrinsically something spiritual. How can you guide someone in spiritual practice if you haven’t experienced it yourself?” – Mike
“Inducing a state intentionally, and guiding someone through a process, its completely unethical to guide someone through a spiritual process that you haven’t been through yourself.” – Mike
New Economy
Burning man is not a barter economy, it’s a gift economy, where things are given without an expectation of receiving something in return
We are far from that economy
What if we had a world where instead of trying to extract value, we were trying to create value?
Since 2015, Mark has worked full-time in the psychedelic community, starting and contributing to a number of projects as an event and media producer, connector, and advisor. He is the Founder of Psychedelic Seminars, an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics. On the PsychSems stage, he has interviewed a range of leaders including bestselling author Michael Pollan, Dr. James Fadiman and Ayelet Waldman on microdosing, and therapeutic ketamine expert Dr. Raquel Bennett. He started the project in 2015 after returning to his home city of Baltimore to build community for open and honest conversations about psychedelics. The project now operates primarily out of the San Francisco Bay Area and livestreams globally. Through his psychedelic community work in Baltimore, he seeded the Baltimore Psychedelic Society. He has sparked and mentored similar Psychedelic Societies around the world from Washington DC to San Francisco to Portugal. He helped start the Global Psychedelic Network to connect them.
In this Episode, Kyle sits down with Elizabeth Nielson and Ingmar Gorman, Co-founders of Fluence, Training in Psychedelic Integration. They are both therapists on the MAPS clinical trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD.
3 Key Points:
1. Elizabeth and Ingmar are co-founders of Fluence, a Psychedelic Integration Training program.
2. If psychedelic treatments become available more widely, the fear is that therapists won’t be as educated on how to handle their patient interactions based on the behavior of each psychedelic. Psychedelic Integration Therapy Training is so important.
3. It’s important for the wider public to understand how psychedelics work in order to anticipate some of the variety of patient reactions after psychedelic therapy.
He is a Co-Principal Investigator for the MAPS MDMA/PTSD trial
He is a Psychologist and the Co-founder of Fluence
He trains mental health professionals in psychedelic integration
About Elizabeth
Elizabeth is a Psychologist and Co-founder of Fluence
She has worked on clinical trials using MDMA and clinical trials using Psilocybin
She trains mental health professionals in psychedelic integration
The Trial
The approval of expanded access by the FDA includes 50 people in total for now
They are near the end of MAPP 1 (out of MAPP1 and MAPP2)
There are 3 phases
Phase 1 addresses the safety of a drug in humans
Phase 2 is where you begin to test your treatment in a specified patient population
Phase 3 is where you get the data to demonstrate efficacy in a larger population pre-approval
They are done as a double-blind trial, both the therapist and patient don’t know if the patient is receiving the treatment or now
Takeaways
There is a lot of information that has to be shared effectively
The therapists are very much aware of the participant’s lives, just just administering MDMA
Instead of learning from the trials of what to do on a practical level, its about inspiring them to bring this as an actual treatment for people
The multiple ways that PTSD can manifest and look like, and the may ways that MDMA can look like when administered, have some commonalities
The deepening, the broadening, the way they communicate, can all be the same
Ingmar holds the belief in the inner healing intelligence of all people
One of the first things he does when he begins with a new patient, he says that this is something he really believes in, and his role as a therapist to help them in their own healing process
What Elizabeth wanted to learn, know and practice while she was going through school, isn’t what she she thought it was until she found it
She says this work really requires them to trust people’s autonomy and experiences
There is something that they tell their patients, “Don’t get ahead of the medicine” – Elizabeth
There is an interesting paradox between not knowing and following intuition, to having an actual method and following that
There is a sweet spot between following a script to following your intuition as a therapist
You want to trust that inner healer process of the patient, but also need to know when to intervene (usually from a safety standpoint)
Fluence
3 days after Horizons, Elizabeth was at home with a cold, and talked to Ingmar that morning curious for a name for the project
Fluence means, magical or mystical power or source of power
It can also refer to the density of particles of energy in a given area
They teach about harm reduction and integration to mental health providers
They aren’t teaching psychedelic therapy protocols in the workshops
An important part of integration is mindfulness
Ingmar’s biggest influence are his clients and patients, he is inspired by them
A large piece of the motivation for creating Fluence is from patients just looking for someone to talk about their experience with
The Why
A mother whose teenage daughter with depression, reached out to Ingmar with trouble trying to treat her daughter’s depression
The family decided it would be a good idea to use Ketamine therapy, which was successful
She was doing well and went to her regular therapist to integrate it The therapist that she went to then instead of responding positively, decided to fire the teenager from further therapy, and reported the parents to child protective services for providing ketamine therapy
Ingmar says their position is not that everyone needs psychedelic integration therapy, its specifically for those that don’t feel supported by family or community, and it gives them a professional service as an option
“Psychedelics are not 10 years of change in one night, they are 10 years of insight in one night. integration is so important.” – Elizabeth
The goal is to support people in making a change that feels safe and right for them
If the treatments become available more widely, the fear is that therapists won’t be as educated on how to handle their patient interactions based on the behavior of each psychedelic
Mental health practitioners can be a great source for working through those experiences
Menla Training
They could really take their time with the process and training
The trainings that they had gone led has made their Fluence courses better
In 2019 they had 5 of the trainings for clinicians, and the trainings will be better and better as they go
Ketamine Infusion Therapy
The experience is not dose dependent
The purpose of the workshop is to educate both therapists and doctors about what can happen in ketamine treatment
Dr. Elizabeth Nielson is a co-founder of Fluence and a psychologist with a focus on developing psychedelic medicines as empirically supported treatments for PTSD, substance use problems, and mood disorders. Dr. Nielson is a therapist on FDA approved clinical trials of psilocybin-assisted treatment of alcohol use disorder, MDMA-assisted treatment PTSD, and psilocybin-assisted treatment of treatment resistant depression. Through Fluence, she provides continuing education and training programs for therapists who wish to engage in integration of psychedelic experiences in clinical settings. Her program of research includes qualitative and mixed-methods projects designed to further understand the phenomenology and mechanisms of change in psychedelic-assisted therapy, including the experiences of trial participants and of the therapists themselves. Having completed an NIH postdoctoral fellowship at NYU, she has published and presented on topics of psychedelic therapist training, therapists’ personal experience with psychedelics, and including psychedelic integration in group and individual psychotherapy.
About Ingmar
Dr. Ingmar Gorman is a co-founder of Fluence and a psychologist who specializes in assisting populations who have a relationship with psychedelics. He is the site co-principal investigator and therapist on a Phase 3 clinical trial studying MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for post-traumatic stress disorder. Dr. Gorman is a board member of Horizons Media, Inc., a not for-profit educational charity and organizer of the Horizons Conference: Perspectives on Psychedelics. After completing his NIH postdoctoral fellowship at New York University, Dr. Gorman stepped down as director of the Psychedelic Education and Continuing Care Program to focus his efforts on Fluence and the training of future therapists.
In this episode, Joe interviews Jon S. on his experience in the psilocybin-assisted trials for alcohol dependency at NYU. In the show, they dive into Jon’s background and how psilocybin assisted therapy helped him out of his alcohol dependence and into a new life.
3 Key Points:
Jon participated in the NYU Double-Blind Trial of Psilocybin-Assisted Treatment of Alcohol Dependence.
The study was double-blind. In each session, he didn’t know if he was going to receive psilocybin or Benadryl.
The sessions helped him so much with this dependence on alcohol, he believes he is a better father, husband, and human overall. He hasn’t had a drink in 5 months (or a desire to).
He spent a lot of his life DJing, so he has spent a lot of time around alcohol
He found out about a psychedelic therapy study at NYU from someone at a Holotropic Breathwork Retreat
The study took place in New York City
He had always wanted to explore the psychedelic side of things
He read Michael Pollan’s book and it said in the book that the Holotropic Breathwork community would be a great group to help find a guide
The Trial
In his assessment, he found out truly how much he was drinking
He would crack a beer before even playing with his kids
He was into craft beer and at 8% a beer, his 3 beers were more like 5
He was asked to not have his sessions recorded so he could be as open as he could be
The session was very focused on curbing drinking
His wife knew he was going down the path of psychedelic healing
“I’m not doing this to have a good time, I’m doing this to be a better person” – Jon
His trial was double-blind
He was never told when he was receiving the psilocybin at each session
He was told that he was either going to get 1 or 3 doses in the trial
The First Session
The first session with the eye shades on (on psilocybin), was very visual
In that first session he kept seeing this pirate ship underwater
His sons would say “come on daddy, lets play on the pirate ship”
He would go to the pirate ship with his sons and then say “I need to go back down and do some work”, and he would swim back into the depths
He came home that day, and his youngest son greeted him at the door, and said let’s play power rangers, I’ll be the red power ranger and you be the pirate
It hit him in a float tank session, the message of that session was to play with his sons more
He had a moment in his first session of rebirth
Integration
There is a 2 hour integration session the very next day
He didn’t think it was going to be as important as it turned out to be
He had the choice to keep it at the same dose or up it
He upped the dose to 40mg instead of 25mg
He was told his second session wouldn’t be anything like his first
The medicine was so intense the second time, he couldn’t even remember the music
In his second session, he saw a body being chopped up (realizing it was his body)
He realized that he was one with the universe, love is the only thing that matters
He wanted to be a part of everything
He was compensated about $100 per session
“When the university gives you financial compensation, you buy everyone in the ice cream shop ice cream” – Jon
Jon says he has a new baseline for anxiety
He never thought he had anxiety, but after his sessions, he found that he is way less anxious than he was, even though he really wasn’t
He didn’t have a desire to drink, he hasn’t had a drink in 5 months
He has never felt better or happier
He’s a much better dad, and husband
Life After the Experience
He is re-reading Aldous Huxley and is finding a whole new meaning to it all
He is spending more time with his family and being present with the
He spends a ton of time with his kids now
Stuff that used to worry him, doesn’t worry him anymore
His experience was everything he hoped for and more
He genuinely believes, that whatever he got out of a session, is what he needed
Final Thoughts
He is talking to the Decrim Nature in NY
He appreciates the platform (Psychedelics Today) for the space to talk about his experience
He appreciates everyone at NYU for the work they are doing
In this episode, Joe interviews Joost Breeksema from the Netherlands to talk about the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research. In the show they cover topics on ICPR 2020, and the importance of accessibility.
3 Key Points:
The Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research takes place April 24-26, 2020 in the Netherlands.
It’s important to acknowledge the indigenous, ethical, and political dimensions to psychedelic use at conferences.
Although this conference will be catered toward mainstream science and research, personal experiences and stories are important too.
Nobody before was doing research on psychedelics in the Netherlands
William James work sparked Joost’s interest in psychedelics
ICPR
Starting with the OPEN Foundation, the conference has been very scientific
It is interdisciplinary, but also taken very seriously
This field is so broad, you could really never get bored
Wade Davis, Alicia Danforth, Matt Johnson and more will be speaking at the conference
There will be over 80 speakers
Joost expects it to be a pretty international conference, half local, and half from abroad
Psychiatrists are usually short on time, and they like things compressed more
It’s really easy and cheap to grow psilocybin as mushrooms or truffles
Even in Mexico, they need to use GMP Psilocybin
Accessibility
“If this is going to be the treatment, how are we going to help people afford it?” – Joe
There is some tricky stuff happening, companies trying to patent different parts of psilocybin to use it for therapeutic use
Ketamine has been off patent for years, but you can develop a new route of administration, patent that, and make a ton of money
Spravato is making it to the UK
Conference Themes
Joost is both excited and scared that they are bringing indigenous practitioners to the conference
It’s important to acknowledge the indigenous, ethical, and political dimensions to psychedelic use
Talking about concepts and approaches to healing is going to be an important aspect
The goal would be to do research with the indigenous communities to be able to address the needs of psychedelic use
There are also a few neuroimaging people coming
For mainstream scientists, the conference has to be as close to a scientific conference as possible, they may be turned off to the cultural aspects of psychedelics
It’s the conservative nature of psychedelia
Joost also says that although the scientific research is important, it is really cool to hear the personal experiences
Joost Breeksema is a part of the OPEN Foundation, which from it came the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research. His current research focuses on the experiences of patients that are undergoing therapy assisted by psychedelic substances. His aim is to better understand psychological mechanisms of action/change, to tease out salient themes, and finally to learn about what works and what does not work in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.
In this episode, Kyle invites a guest interviewer, Hallie Rose of the Thought Room Podcast, to interview him on his recent experience at Soltara. In the show, they talk about Soltara, Kyle’s experience with the plant medicine, and important topics like privilege.
3 Key Points:
Integration is an important part of working with psychedelics and plant medicines. Indigenous cultures have different integration perspectives than Western attendees. In the West, attendees come back to more hustle and bustle, and may need more time for integration. Soltara does a really good job at providing integration resources and educating guests about the post-medicine experience.
Ayahuasca is a relational medicine. An anology that one of the facilitators used was that with psilocybin and other psychedelics, there is this one big entry door into the space – you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily. With Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate throug and you have to create a relationship with the medicine first.
If the people that really need the help can’t even afford medicine experiences, then how do we have mass healing? Peer support movements may be a way forward with this issue. As the field continues to grow, we need to look at more affordable and accessible models.
Hallie mentions that she was blown away by the amount of effort that it takes to uphold a medicine center like Soltara
Kyle says right from the start from arrival to the location, he was greeted with such warmth and it reminded him of his breathwork background
The ground rules that they laid down right at the start made him feel so safe
She said it’s amazing to see the amount of healing that happens in that space
“When it comes to your own medicine work, your own journey work, only you know what’s right for you” – Hallie
Hallie is part of a mastermind group through Aubrey Marcus, the CEO of Onnit
She is connected to a bunch of people as a part of this group
She was introduced to Dan Cleland, a co-founder of Soltara, who invited her to come down
Yes they had the traditional Shipibo aspects, but they also did a fantastic job of adding in the Western concepts to cater to the western needs
Hallie mentions that coming from the West, we have the need to integrate the experience in a different way than those coming from the East, and Soltara does a really good job with that kind of integration
The First Session
Before the first ceremony, participants engaged in what is called “vomitivo.” This is a process of clearing the body through purging. Participants are asked to drink a tea made from lemongrass and other admixtures that contain purgative properties.
Kyle said the tea was actually tasty
You drink a lot of it where you override the system to where the body wants to purge
The purging is to clear the system out of toxins and clean it out energetically
Soltara built in pre-ceremony sessions like yoga or meditation to help ease into the actual sessions
Kyle said that the Ayahuasca experience was familiar
Everything felt very green behind his eyes
There was a serpent weaving in and out of his DNA
The experience felt so healing
Kyle didn’t purge (vomit) but did do a little crying
He said he did not experience much anxiety
The serpent was healing him and stitching parts of himself back together
“There is something intelligent here working on very subtle levels” – Kyle
The next two ceremonies were very gentle, some crying, going through family dynamics, but always in the background, there was that same serpent
Kyle said the first 3 sessions felt really easy, compared to previous experiences with psychedelics
The spirit said to him “oh you think this was going to be easy, that you would just drink this and that I would show you all this stuff. Well, we have to get to know each other first”
With psilocybin, there is this one big door, you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily, with Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate through, you have to create a relationship with the medicine first
Final Ceremony
It was during the full moon in Cancer and lunar eclipse, the energy was already intense
For the 4th ceremony, Kyle was already feeling high energy, and did not want to go too strong, so he started with ¾ of a cup
Kyle felt more subtle effects of the medicine during the first part of the ceremony and the medicine told him to ask for a second dose
The facilitator gave Kyle ¼ of a cup more
That ¼ of a cup really opened up a door for Kyle
After the singing, he laid down and that’s when things took off
All of a sudden, he saw himself back in the CAT scan machine (referring back to his NDE as a teen)
He always tells the story as blissful and beautiful, but this time was so different
He saw himself back in the CAT scan machine as a child, and was terrified, and he began shaking
He felt this pain in his pelvic area as he felt during his NDE
He was shivering and so cold, it brought him right back into that state
He was re-experiencing the fear in a new way during the ceremony
He went into his body and felt the scar tissue and felt that shake and stretch and kind of brought in some healing there
After his actual surgery/NDE, as he was healing he was always really afraid to move in certain ways in the fear that movement would re-open some of the healing wounds
He got a clear way of looking at how the body holds trauma, especially after surgery
That trauma is tied to the way we hold ourselves, the way we walk and talk and in so many ways
This ceremony helped Kyle view somatic body work in such a new light
The ceremony was not scary, he allowed his body to process the fear, but not attach to the fear and become fearful
Yoga can also bring that out, stillness and vulnerability can bring up some body trauma and put you into that fight or flight response
Even when you think you’re done processing something, there are always more layers to dig into and see something differently to bring more clarity
Preparation
Hallie said what she is learning with this medicine, is that she doesn’t need to make anything happen, she needs to just let it happen
That feeling of relaxing things is scary because it means giving up control
It’s a practice and its a lot easier said than done
The most important part is the set (mindset), because the set is you
“Having your set figured out, when the going gets tough, you’re safe still” – Hallie
Kyle said that Aya always told him to wait, he didn’t need to jump into trying it right away, he waited over 10 years to process his NDE trauma
Hallie says it’s just like marriage, you can get married easily, but it’s not always going to work out if you don’t have the tools and the skill sets to maintain it
Ayahuasca is similar in needing the right tools and time to do it right
The dieta and the prep itself is so hard
People are turned off by the idea of doing something disciplined
These experiences can be so much different when we go through the process of giving something up
It’s not to punish ourselves, it’s to heal ourselves
“There is a whole other side of us, that opens up when we cut out some of the things that numb us” – Hallie
The dieta strips away the illusions, the plant medicines help us remember who we are
Hopi Creation Story
The great creator said “I have a gift for the human beings, but I need to hide it somewhere until they are ready to find it”
It is “the gift of the knowing that they can create anything, they can create their own reality”
The creator asked the earth where he should hide it
The eagle said he will bring it to the moon
The fish said he will bring it to the bottom of the sea
The buffalo said he will bring it to the edge of the plains
The creator said no to all of them, they will find it there
So the great grandmother who lives in the breast of the earth said, put it inside of them
And the creator said “it is done”
It brought Kyle back to his fourth ceremony, the Ayahuasca was a reminder that everything he needed was already inside of him
Privilege
It’s hard to tell people of their only legal options for healing, which most of them are leaving the country, which is not an option for some people
We are all worthy of finding relief of our suffering through psychedelics
Is therapy only going to be for the rich and elite? There are so many people who really need it
Yes, you can grow mushrooms, but then you’re at risk of the law
The system is so complex and we need a more humane way of moving forward in this field and offer experiences like this to the people that need it
Therapy is a privilege
Most people that need therapy are in survival mode that don’t have the privilege of access to therapy
Peer support movements are a way forward in this issue
If the people that really need the help can’t even afford it, then how do we have mass healing?
There are great healers out there that never became healers because they didn’t have the privilege to
Kyle says he escaped a lot of suicidal ideation after his near death experience, it took a lot of time to call earth his home
“Just to wake up and be a part of this, even that is magical in itself” – Kyle
“The stars come out every night, and we watch television” – Hallie
Authentic Self
Hallie has recently had her 12th Ayahuasca experience
“I am no longer breathing, I am being breathed” – Hallie
“Hatred does not exist, it is only a resistance to love” – Hallie
Even being hard on ourselves is only a resistance to loving ourselves
Its love with nowhere to go
People that have a lot of self hatred toward their bodies or themselves, the medicine always comes back to the self, it teaches people to love and take care of themselves
“You really can’t love anything outside of yourself until you love yourself” – Hallie
Kyle says that the people who he looks up to (ex, Stan Grof), what if they never showed up for themselfves? What if they never stood up for what they believe in?
Hallie Rose is an author, speaker, educator, and relationship coach from New York City. She is the host of The Thought Room Podcast and also the founder & CEO of the company Lunar Wild which aims to reclaim the sacred feminine and address a modern need for a Rite of Passage into womanhood. The Thought Room is a combination of edge-of-your-seat storytelling and groundbreaking interviews with celebrated thought-leaders from around the world. The show covers a breadth of topics including psychology, spirituality, sex & relationships, psychedelic science & plant medicine, bio-hacking, fitness, nutrition, alternative health, business & entrepreneurship, mindfulness, yoga, and meditation.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview previous guest of the show, Daniel Greig. In the show, he goes in depth into the meaning of enlightenment and previews the new book he is writing with Dr. John Vervaeke, The Cognitive Continuum.
3 Key Points:
Insight, flow and mystical experiences are all facets of working toward enlightenment.
Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality. It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life.
The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness. The most important part of having a mystical (psychedelic) experience is coming back into our bodies and developing better relationships with ourselves, others and the world.
Daniel is an educator, organizer and artist living in Toronto. He studied Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto, specializing in wisdom, consciousness, and spiritual belief and experience. In 2015, he founded the Mapping the Mind conference that occurs annually in Toronto, which raises much needed funds for psychedelic research. Daniel regularly host lectures and workshops, on topics in cognitive science. He is currently writing a book with Dr. John Vervaeke on the science of enlightenment, which will be published in 2020. When not contemplating the realm of the intellect, Daniel delves in the sonic perturbations of music, writing and producing progressive metal.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Chris Bache, author of LSD and the Mind of the Universe. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions and talks about his experience in the show.
3 Key Points:
Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions, but he says that pushing the edge of high dose and high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties. He does not recommend high dose sessions like he did.
The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves.
In the show, they discuss psychedelic therapy and the debate on whether or not therapists should have to have psychedelic experience to do the therapy. Chris believes that the level of experience a therapist has had will impact the type of support they will be able to give.
He was the professor of Religious Studies, sticking to his traditional life
He knew there would come a time for him to share his experiences with a larger audience
Chris says he’s always been locked into his body and his physical experience
He had no background in psychedelic states of consciousness
Protocol
He said you’re always working with a sitter and same context/setting
As the dosage increased, he began creating a more intense music playlist
Chris thinks music is very important for psychedelic sessions
Chris does not recommend working with high doses
“When you’re working with opening consciousness that radically, music has a tremendous effect, it has an amplifying effect by 5 or 10x than doing it without music” – Chris
Chris said he has experienced all the common layers of the psychedelic unconscious that’s talked about
Consciousness Levels
Chris experienced 4 different death/rebirths
Chris differentiated 5 levels of the universe
The first is at the personal mind, where an ego death happens
The second takes places at the collective mind, about species
The third level is an archetypal mind, the high subtle mind, moving beyond the species existence
The fourth level is causal mind, causal oneness, profound states of non-dual reality
The last is Diamond Luminosity, its absolute clarity, pureness
Psychedelic Therapy
Chris says that there is a certain level of support that one needs to truly let go of themselves and let go to the experience
He says that he thinks the level of experience will impact the type of support a therapist will be able to give
Subtle Level
The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves
Pushing the edge of high dose, high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties
Chris says he was very secret about his psychedelic use, his students didn’t know about it
But he said after he had gone deep and touched these different levels of consciousness, his students became alive
The deeper he went in his own work, the more it touched the students at a deeper level
Potency
Chris thinks that LSD is a little cleaner than other psychedelics
His basic sense is that psilocybin tends to be less evocative, disruptive
Ayahuasca is more disruptive in opening up to deeper levels
LSD is the most disruptive in opening people up to really deep levels of consciousness
With LSD is was less about his personal experience, and more about the collective unconscious experience
Realizations
With one of his experiences, he had seen everything in his whole life all at once
He then entered into archetypal experiences, the platonic domain beyond the time-space reality
The beings he ‘met’ were as large as universes, responsible for creating time and space
He went into ‘deep time’, different magnitudes of time experiences in a broader frame of reference (where we are in the history of time, what our future looks like)
He reached that diamond luminosity level only 4 times out of all of his LSD sessions
“If we keep this up, sooner or later, the totality of this consciousness is going to wake up” – Chris
“We are moving toward a collective wake up, it’s not a personal experience, it’s a collective experience. An evolution of our species.” -Chris
If Chris has one tip, is to let go of our fear of death, when we die, we go back home
After so many sessions, and not taking the time to stop to integrate, after years, his body was screaming for community, and he felt this deep existential sadness and felt as if he was just waiting to die
It took 10 years to integrate his deep exploration, and to finally feel okay and comfortable again in his body suit and in this life
The universe is an infinite ocean of possibilities, we will never reach the end
“The collective psyche is being cosmically stimulated by the trauma that we are entering into” -Chris
Christopher M. Bache is professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An award-winning teacher, Chris’ work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. Chris has written three books translated into six languages: Lifecycles – a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn – a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy and collective consciousness; and The Living Classroom, an exploration of teaching and collective fields of consciousness. His new book is Diamonds from Heaven ~ LSD and the Mind of the Universe (2019).
In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Addy, Licensed Mental Health Counselor out of Washington. In the show, they talk about the research and therapeutic use of Salvia.
3 Key Points:
Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports, although there are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant.
In a recreational setting, Salvia is usually smoked, but in the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method.
The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now. It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research.
Peter helped found the Yale Psychedelic Speaker Series
The main goal was to normalize talking about psychedelic research as research
Peter joined the pharmacology lab for his post doctoral research on Salvia
The team was mainly studying THC but were also studying Ketamine
He wanted to bring in MDMA and Psilocybin research
Peter attended The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
As a psychologist, Peter focused heavily on feedback and experience
Transpersonal Psychology
It all started when Peter stumbled across a dusty book in the library as a Freshman, States of Consciousness by Charles Tart The book talked a lot about meditation
Joe says he has been practicing non-drug transpersonal states (breathwork) for years
You can have a psychedelic experience without drugs, and you can also take psychedelics and not have the psychedelic experience at all, it’s not about the drug
“Everyone has an innate desire towards transcending who they are, moving towards wholeness, and personal and societal transformation” – Peter
“If I’m kind, then people around me are more likely to be kind, it’s about the transformation of groups and societies than about having a cool trick” – Peter
Salvia
“Psychedelic Assisted Psychotherapy is proven to do a lot of really good things, but it’s not the only way and it’s not necessarily the right way. There are wrong ways to do it, but not one culture owns this experience.” – Peter
“Having a healthy critique of science in the modern world is helpful because its a series of provisional truths, it’s a good tool to get closer to objective reality, but its not perfect, it’s all we have so far” – Joe
Peter says that art is an amazing tool as well
Verbal language is limiting, he has seen images that can convey an experience way better than words can
Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports
There are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant
There was going to be a bill to make Salvia illegal in 2008 or 2009
Now it’s just illegal for minors
Salvia Study
Peter recruited 30 people who had all used psychedelics
He used a controlled set, setting and intention
He used either a Salvia extract or just the unadulterated leaf
No one in the real world is using Salvinorin A, they are smoking the leaf or using extracts of the leaf
The participants smoked it when they desired, Peter was not enforcing the smoking
It was a very relaxed setting
Once the participants smoked, they then had an experience for 10 minutes, and then he came together with them and just listened to their experience
2 people got up and moved, the rest just sat there in the experience
Interoception (the inner feelings of your body) is the internal form of proprioception (the feeling of your body in space)
Every time you smoke something it is going to hit you quickly and be over quickly
By the time you realize what’s going on in a Salvia experience, you’re already on your way out
In the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method
Advice
The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now
It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research
Peter says if you do get funding, attach it to something else
MDMA research didn’t just begin to ‘see what it could help’, PTSD sucks, and there isn’t a whole lot that works to treat it, but MDMA does and it just happens to be a type of psychedelic
Peter is both a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Washington and a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oregon. He earned a PhD in Clinical Psychology from Sofia University in 2011, including certification in biofeedback and Process Oriented Psychodrama. There, he studied non-ordinary states of consciousness, holistic and all-encompassing views of a person, and ways that these experiences can transform a person and society. Peter then engaged in post-degree specialty training at Danville State Hospital, Yale University School of Medicine, and the Connecticut Mental Health Center. As faculty at Yale University he engaged in research and training. Some of his clinical training is in mindfulness-based therapies, Motivational Interviewing, and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He also discovered a passion for data management and security which he brings with him to his online therapy practice.
In today’s episode, Joe visits Naropa in Boulder, CO to sit down with Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis. Alan is a Clinical Psychology Professor at Ohio State and Rafael is a legal Psychedelic Therapist operating out of Innate Path in Colorado.
3 Key Points:
Facilitation is a huge problem in the 5-MEO-DMT space. Some people take it without the intention of working on it afterward, they are commonly given too much, and also in a poor context. This recipe of poor facilitation and guidance leads to a lot of challenging experiences and a lot of integration work.
The feeling of oneness typically arises when taking 5-MEO-DMT. It can be great for some, but for others, it can be extremely overwhelming and harmful when not provided the correct intention, context and tools to work through it.
Privilege is a huge issue in the psychedelic space. The goal in this space is to make everyone’s voice heard, not just those of privilege.
Rafael studied Mental Health Counseling at the University of Wyoming
He is currently at Innate Path in Lakewood, CO doing Ketamine and Cannabis assisted Psychotherapy
Alan
Alan is on the Faculty at John’s Hopkins
He is a Clinical Psychologist
He is currently doing clinical research on psychoactive substances
5-MEO-DMT
It is a psychoactive substance that comes from the Sonoran Desert Toad
It’s a fast acting and powerful psychedelic substance that is challenging to predict
Some have amazing, beautiful and transcendent experiences, but it also has the ability to bring up challenging and dark things to deal with
It isn’t as visual as other psychedelics, it has to deal a lot more with consciousness itself
“It may feel like being shot right into the center of love, or the center of the universe” – Alan
DMT can be more visual, while 5-MEO-DMT can be more spiritual, not that they can’t dip into each other
5-MEO-DMT Harms
Alan did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT at Horizons
There are a lot of harms when using 5-MEO-DMT
Both Alan and Rafael have been contacted numerous times about looking for facilitators or about trying to integrate massive and difficult experiences
An ego death, in the right context, can be transformative, but in the wrong context, can be extremely harmful.
The facilitators are the problem
If the facilitators are delivering the medicine in a shamanic practice, and the people using it are coming from a Western mindset, then with goals misaligned, there can be some major issues
People have these grand, god-like experiences when using psychedelics, then feel like they need to become shamans and facilitate these experiences for others and have literally no clue or education on how to properly care for these people using the Toad
Joe says facilitators commonly overdose their users because the toad venom is hard to predict potency
Alan says that the fear response needs to be initiated when extracting the venom from the toad
He thinks it can come up as a huge problem when using 5-MEO-DMT from a fear-stricken animal
Alan says there is a lot of reports of feeling abducted by aliens, and it could be related to the fear response from the toad being hunted for its venom
It’s a similar concept to the traumatization of any other animal by the way it is killed and then eating the meat of that traumatized animal
On average, there is roughly 10-20% of 5-MEO-DMT in the venom
Oneness
When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, it takes a lot of detailed integration
When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, that would also mean that they experience the suffering of everything around them
When the rational mind comes back online, if the person does not decide to take action, it can be seriously overwhelming to feel that oneness
Integration has part to do with the experience but then the other part is everything before it, our family, relationships, job, our personality, etc.
“Yeah its cool that we are one with the universe, but so is everything else” – Rafael
Power and Privilege
Privilege means having a voice, but it also means position in society, gender, race etc
In psychedelics, for so long, it has been so hard to find a voice
But with this psychedelic renaissance, it has become so much easier to speak up about psychedelic use, research, etc
The people within the scientific community get put on a pedestal to speak about psychedelic research
Alan says his goal as someone in the middle of the research role, is to create community, to bring every voice to be heard
Being connected to psychedelics in anyway, used to mean prosecution
There are still imbalances that need to be looked at
The psychedelic renaissance is a chance to look at systemic issues
We need to determine what our personal values are, and values of the whole community, and whether or not they are aligned
Final Thoughts
Alan says his goal is to continue having a voice and allowing others’ voices to be heard in this space
Rafael says his goal is to make this therapy more available to those who can benefit from it and not just for the privileged
Rafael is a graduate from the University of Wyoming in Mental Health Counseling. He has worked as a wilderness therapy guide with adolescents and young adults experiencing a wide range of emotional and psychological challenges. He has also worked as a counselor at the Behavioral Health Services unit of a psychiatric hospital treating severe and persistent mental illness and medically supervised drug and alcohol detox. He has worked on several research projects studying the epidemiology of 5-MeO-DMT use in the global population and is also the administrator of 5meodmt.org, an online forum dedicated to hosting community discussions on harm reduction, integration, and safe practices around 5-MeO-DMT use. He is interested in the use of psychedelics paired with therapy for increased resiliency, mental health, and openness. He believes that the counseling relationship is essential to deepen, enhance, and actualize the benefits of psychedelic-assisted therapy. He is passionate about finding ways to make psychedelic-assisted therapies available to all those who may benefit from it as well as helping to raise awareness as to responsible clinical applications of psychedelics/entheogens.
About Alan Kooi Davis
Dr. Alan K Davis is an Assistant Professor of Social Work at The Ohio State University and an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Psychedelic Research Unit at Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Davis’s clinical experience includes working with people diagnosed with trauma-based psychological problems such as addiction, PTSD, depression, and anxiety. His clinical expertise includes providing evidenced-based treatments such as motivational interviewing, cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy. Consistent with his clinical interests, his research interests and expertise focus on contributing to the knowledge of and ability to help those suffering with substance use and mental health problems, understanding how to improve clinical outcomes through examining new treatments, and developing ways to conceptualize substance use and mental health problems through a strengths-based approach.
In today’s episode, Joe interviews Mike Jay, Author of the book, Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic. In the show they discuss Mescaline’s origins and the history of Peyote use.
3 Key Points:
Mike Jay is a Cultural Historian and Author whose topics include science, medicine, drugs, madness, literature and radical politics.
Mike’s recent book, Mescaline, is a definitive history of mescaline that explores its mind-altering effects across cultures, from ancient America to western modernity.
Over time, Peyote has been used by spiritual seekers, by psychologists investigating the secrets of consciousness, artists exploring the creative process, and by psychiatrists.
Mike Jay is a freelance writer, an author and cultural historian
Mike has been interested in Mescaline for a really long time
Indigenous Use
James Mooney is a crucial figure in the transition from indigenous use of peyote to the more current applications
The New Deal made religions respected, protected under the First Amendment for freedom of worship
History
There is a ton of literature before the 60’s on psychedelic use
It was obvious that if people were interested in psychoactive drugs, they would take it themselves
Back then, science was much more proactive than it is today, but it is becoming more popular again
Peyote Experience
It’s hard to find an ethical source of Peyote
Mike says its unpleasant but warm and tingly and euphoric
By 1970, Mescaline was this legendary substance, but it was hard to find on the streets unless you knew an underground chemist
On the Erowid site, they have a bulletin that the DEA created about all of the street drug seizures He wrote a book 20 years ago called Emperors of Dreams
2CB is not as intense as Mescaline
Mescaline is a phenethylamine
It does not cross the blood brain barrier as easily. So you need to take more of it
It is a body and mind drug
Indigenous Use
The Comanches were in a reservation in the Wichita mountains
He was notified by the Comanches on some history
He went to meet with them, and they told him stories on the history
Peyote use originated inside of a Tipi
“The way that we see psychedelics in modern Western culture, is not the only way of thinking about it:” – Mike
Native American Church
There is an interesting thing that happened between Mexican/South American Shamanic practice and Native American Church
In the ceremony, the facilitator is made to not ask like a priest, everyone is their own priest
It is a healing modality for everybody
The very first peyote experiences in the west encouraged artists to make art
Salvador Dali was apparently anti-drug use
The surrealist movement had a number of rules
Huichol art is a very psychedelic inspired art
The plant
Peyote is so fast growing, in some places it is growing naturally
San Pedro is way more sustainable than Peyote
There is a lot of demand for Peyote currently
Joe says he thinks that Peyote is not scheduled in Canada
Accounts
The western story is full of first-person experiencesIts based on the personal
experiences and visions
In the indigenous accounts, there are very little stories on experience or personal matters, its more recording on the collective experience
Mike Jay is a leading specialist in the study of drugs across history and cultures. The author of Artificial Paradises, Emperors of Dreams, and The Atmosphere of Heaven, his critical writing on drugs has appeared in many publications, including The Guardian, The Telegraph, and The International Journal of Drug Policy. He sits on the editorial board of the addiction journal Drugs and Alcohol Today and on the board of the Transform Drug Policy Foundation. He lives in England.
In this episode, Joe interviews Dena Justice from the Ecstatic Collective. Dena and Joe talk about Neuro Linguistic Programming and how it is beneficial to use with non-ordinary states of consciousness.
3 Key Points:
NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming. Dena Justice is a Lifestyle Design Strategist that uses NLP to help people create their dream, ecstatic life.
93% of communication happens at the subconscious level. NLP training focuses on how we use communication tools to help people in non-ordinary states of consciousness.
Perception is Projection. Our belief of someone else, is a projection of ourselves onto them.
As a master manifester, Dena has created a beautiful life for herself. She been financially responsible since age 15 including putting herself through college, two masters degrees and purchasing her own home in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has made over $1M in her life through a fulfilling career as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor and coach working with thousands of people across the country. She loved her career, yet hit a point where she felt empty. Near the top of her career ladder, she was a classic case of a high performer and leader hitting burnout. She chose a powerful pivot out of her J-O-B and into her own business. Now, she helps other high performers who have hit burnout and are scared to admit they’ve hit a plateau or a wall. She helps them get the eff out of their own way and move to the next level to increase their impact so they feel fulfilled and inspired again, as well as helping them create more wealth and the relationships they want in their lives. She helps people experience new levels of success, increase/improve focus and performance, abolish FOMO, evolve communication skills, develop transformational leadership skills, create amazing relationships, increase financial abundance and live life on their own terms.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Raquel Bennett to recap on the KRIYA Conference. Kyle attended the conference, which is to bring people together with dedication to understanding the better use of Ketamine.
3 Key Points:
The more recent KRIYA Conference was the last of its kind. The goal is to make information on ketamine more accessible to more people in the future.
At KRIYA Institute, they believe that there is not one right way to use ketamine, different patients are best served by different treatment strategies.
Intramuscular ketamine is usually 93% bioavailable, while nasal and lozenge based ketamine is usually only 40% bioavailable. The less variability the better when working with a powerful medicine for therapy.
KRIYA is an international conference focused on ketamine and its therapeutic potential
The goal of KRIYA is to get people of all different ketamine backgrounds in the same room
Different people benefit from different things, and different doses and methods matter
There is a symbiotic relationship between therapeutic and spiritual practice of ketamine
She wanted to create a place where researchers and clinicians could come together
This last conference was the last one
The conference is CME accredited, which means physicians can get units for their education
Raquel picks people from different backgrounds, therapists who use low dose ketamine for therapy, to those who do full blown spiritual work with ketamine
Ketamine is a relational medicine – which is about having a relationship with the substance
Ketamine Therapy
Ketamine Therapy Lessons
Wisdom Teaching
A Loving Relationship
The Medicine
The medicine is adjunct to the entire process, it’s not just about the ketamine, it’s about the relationships, the wisdom teaching, etc. And each are powerful on their own, and even more powerful when all combined
When people are using ketamine in absence from the other components, people are not getting the full effect that they could
“Ketamine when done correctly, when administered in the right setting, with the correct support, enhances resilience.” – Raquel
Therapy is an important mechanism to teach coping skills needed in psychotherapy
Highlights of KRIYA
When Raquel first started running this conference in 2015, the clinicians were afraid to even come, they were afraid to talk about Ketamine
This past year, there were hundreds of applicants and so much excitement around talking about ketamine
In 2014, a whole bunch of psychiatrists stood up and said they have been using ketamine for their patients and it worked
A doctor talked about combining meditation with ketamine to heal substance use disorder
When ketamine is offered in a structured context, its highly beneficial
Another doctor talked about using ketamine to treat those who are acutely suicidal
People who are severely psychiatrically distressed benefit from ketamine treatment
Another doctor talked about combining ketamine with EMDR to treat patients with PTSD
Bioavailability
Raquel says she prefers intramuscular ketamine over lozenges
It’s the cheapest way of doing it
Its super precise, you have a great control of the bioavailability of the ketamine to the patient
With IM, 93% is bioavailable
With nasal and lozenge ketamine, usually 40% makes it to the patient’s brain, which is a huge range of variability when working with a powerful medicine
Progression
Clinicians are on the fence for prescribing for at home use
A doctor talked about 4 different tiers of ketamine experiences related to dosage
Other doctors talked about measurement tools of pre and post experience ways to take data when administering ketamine to patients
There is a lot of ketamine use outside of the medical context
The field is stuck in the question “Should ketamine be allowed to be used by people who aren’t psychiatrically fragile?”
Everything good that is going to come out of ketamine usage and assisted therapy, will come
It’s a slow process, but it is all moving forward
Final Thoughts
Raquel encourages people to are interested with using ketamine in therapy to get together regionally and learn from each other
She is thinking about creating a video series, as well as a retreat for ketamine providers
The KRIYA Conference is over, but the KRIYA Institute isn’t going anywhere
She is looking at ways to get the information out faster and to more people, than to limit it just to conference attendees
Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.
In today’s episode, Joe sits down with Andy Frasco, a touring rock musician with the band, Andy Frasco and the UN. In the show, they cover what is it like to be a touring rock musician with drugs so available and how to live more healthfully in the space.
3 Key Points:
Andy Frasco is a talented, touring music artist a part of the band, Andy Frasco and the UN, as well as a podcast show host. Andy uses psychedelics to help cope with the anxiety that the rock star lifestyle brings.
Psychedelics open us up to the possibility that everything we know is wrong. Finding truth and clarity for some people is hard, and people resort to alcohol and other harmful behaviors to suppress the painful reality we live in.
Cocaine and uppers only keep a rock star up for so long. It keeps you awake for the partying, but it suppresses all the stresses of the lifestyle. Psychedelics and meditation can help with the balance needed in a stressful, lifestyle of traveling and fame.
Microdosing is typically 6 weeks on, two weeks off, dosing every 3 days
1/10-3/10ths of a gram (of mushrooms) is the typical microdose
Once you feel it, it’s more of a macro-dose
Paul Stamets has made mushrooms popular
Mushroom Evolution
Mushrooms did not leave a mark on bone structure, so it’s hard to tell if they actually made a difference in human evolution
Drugs have been around for a long time, and people in the past have definitely used them
There are studies of mushrooms helping to grow nerve cells and brain neurons back
We are only 50-100 years in on science “(Psychedelics) open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong.” -Terence McKenna
Joe says he’s been to a therapist a bunch of times, and he says he has enjoyed it
Joe’s main form of therapy has been Breathwork
His most intense experiences have been just as powerful as his Ayahuasca experience
About Andy
Andy says he is open about taking psychedelics, he takes mushrooms, he doesn’t really use cocaine
He says he feels more anxious when he isn’t taking them than when he is
He says he gets really anxious on weed now as he gets older
Psychedelics show us a lot of truths
“We are all trying to figure out life, it’s hard. Psychedelics help us create a better relationship with our mind.” – Andy
Andy says he has been anxious his whole life
He has had very scary panic attacks
He became addicted to sex as a crutch for his anxiety
He woke up one day, and sex didn’t give him the thrill anymore
Andy started in the music industry because rock stars get the chicks
Teen years are just about being super insecure about everything
Shame is a huge influence on our relationships with other people
“The majority of effects from drug use for people are good.” – a quote from Carl Hart, a Psychology Professor who studies drug use
Andy’s first psychedelic experience was an 8th of mushrooms at 18 years old
Rock Star Lifestyle
Andy says he used to be really into coke because he just had to stay up for the shows
But he says he doesn’t take anything anymore that feels like speed
He was coping his exhaustion with drugs and alcohol
“When you’re in a band you’re the party for one day of the year in that city.” – Andy
Life for a rock star can’t just be the 2 hour show, the trick is figuring out how to be mindful for the other 14 hours of the day after the party
The lifestyle is really hard, its very common to use drugs, sex and alcohol to suppress it
Humans were not designed for this
Andy has begun using transcendental meditation to help with this lifestyle
He also mentions having his first DMT experience recently
Links
Use code PSYTODAY at Onnit for discount on all products except fitness equipment Get a 30 day free trail at Audible
About Andy Frasco
Andy Frasco, a Los Angeles, CA native singer, songwriter, band maestro, entrepreneur, party starter and everyday hustler, tours with his band, “The U.N.” The music has elements of Soul, Funk, Rock and Roots and the shows have been described as orchestrated chaos, an overall great time. Frasco average 200+ dates a year, touring the country dozens of times, creating a loyal following everywhere he goes.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to cover questions from listeners of the show. They discuss topics that include psychedelic use for exorcisms, cluster headaches, athletic performance, processing grief and more.
3 Key Points:
There are a few examples where psychedelics are used to increase athletic performance. Psychedelics can also be used to help realign those who are using sports as a form of distraction from internalized issues.
When eliminating variables for psilocybin consistency in mushrooms for therapeutic use, freeze drying helps. But there are so many variables in mushrooms versus synthesized psilocybin.
When addressing the sustainability of the Toad, according to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT
The receptor site activity is the same as opioid pills
Using Psychedelics for an Exorcism
Kyle thinks of shamanic uses for plant medicines, and with the idea of purging and spiritual emergence, working in non-ordinary states can exacerbate these states and maybe help with this kind of work
Joe and Kyle go into writings from Stan Grof, explaining the physical appearance of those going through LSD psychotherapy or breathwork, and how it assimilates to an ‘exorcism’ of releasing the bad
The purging during a psychedelic experience may feel evil, or alien
Joe and Kyle say, do not perform an exorcism, leave it to the trained people
Treating Cluster Headaches with Psychedelics
Cluster Busters is an organization for the research on cluster headaches
LSD works for some as well as oxygen treatments work for others
We know a lot more about migraines than cluster headaches
The migraine is where neurons in the brain start misfiring and create a firing storm
How can Psilocybin Mushrooms be Standardized in Production for Therapeutic Use?
Joe says the practical solution is to have a really large amount of psilocybe cubensis, all blended up, and then split in even doses
There are potency differences between species, strains, etc
There are so many variances with mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin
Freeze drying also promotes close to 0% loss of psilocybin when drying mushrooms
Psychedelics and Athletic Performance
There may be psychological blocks that are getting in the way of a person reaching the peak performance of their genome
It could be trauma, or psychological blocks
Athletic performance could be a distraction from what you’re really here to do
Athletes have a lot of dysfunctional behavior
Psychedelics may show us our bad behavior and help us align
Kyle says he had this passion to snowboard and dedicate his life to snowboarding, and then he received a message in journeywork that told him snowboarding is simply a hobby and he needs to focus his life on other things
“Sports are a great way to cover up our emotions” – Joe
A lot of people internalize it instead of breaking down and letting it go
Links
Use code PSYTODAY at Onnit for discount on all products except fitness equipment Get a 30 day free trail at Audible
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Jac Harrison, a grammy nominated music producer. Kyle and Jac talk about music as therapy, how DMT mimics the near death experience, and how Jac produces music based on frequencies of mystical experiences.
3 Key Points:
Jac shares his story about his near death experience, and how DMT has been a therapeutic option for him to cope with his crippling anxiety and PTSD.
Jac is a music producer, who uses frequencies from mystical experiences to produce music. His music helps people with addiction, sleep issues, anxiety, and more.
Music is not an FDA approved medicine, but if there is music that tricks your mind into thinking you have taken a medicine, then it should be an option for those suffering.
Each song he did after that, catalogs the DMT experience he had
“An old projector TV, I had one for a while, it was great. The light came on and told me I needed to change the bulb. I changed the bulb and saw in a new and clear way forever. That’s what DMT is like.” – Jac
Kyle says that when he attended COSM for the DMT Spirit Molecule release party, Rick Strassman was there and said that the idea that DMT comes out of the pineal gland is just a hypothesis, and people took it and ran with it as truth
Frequency for Healing
After he smoked DMT, he heard this humming, and so he started humming and recording it as a frequency for the album
He took opium, and then figured out the frequency that substance performs at
He wrote music, based on the mathematical equation on how opium works and releases
He says it has helped others detox off of opium
Jac cant take mushrooms because he is allergic, so he takes DMT
Jac worked with a man who had gone through a ton of trauma, he had gone through combat
He kept reliving his combat trauma when he would try to go asleep
He smoked DMT, and really relived the experience, and was able to let go of it after that
“Your mind is a bitch.” – Jac
“If you can lock onto a memory, and dissociate it with something, and re-associate it with something else, Every time you can go back to that memory,you can relive it in a way that it’s tolerable, and get over it.” – Jac
Jac says without this, he would not be able to function, and he would be institutionalized
Jac’s music is Alex Grey’s form of art creation
It is made to go with journeywork experiences
It is supposed to mimic taking a pill, so you don’t need to take the actual pill
It is supposed to guide people when taking different psychedelics
His tracks match the frequency of specific psychedelics
Malta Hypogeum
The Malta Hypogeum, the oracle chamber, is a cave with naturally occurring frequencies
Raymond Reif is an underestimated person in history
He beat cancer using frequencies in the 30’s and 40’s
“If we’re not going to someone to get drugs for something that we need drugs for, and solving our problems using plant based medicines, music therapy, and frequencies, we are much better off.” – Jac
Jac came across psychedelics when trying to treat crippling anxiety
Kyle is the first person he has told this NDE story to
Alzheimers is not a neurological problem, it’s a perception problem
Psychedelic medicine should be used for research to treat cognitive health problems, PTSD, alzheimers, etc
“If the earth gives us something for our body, we should be able to take that at the same time we are able to take modern medicine.” – Jac
Jac says that he started doing this type of work as more of an Atheist, and after the psychedelic experiences, he says he has become more spiritual
Intuition
Jac says that his intuition and discernment came after his near death experience
Kyle says that this happens after mystical experiences, we become more in tune with what is going on around us
“I believe that we have something in us, that is triggered, when we have a fear of death.” – Jac
Final thoughts
Jac recommends Relief as the first track for listeners
He extends himself to people who are heavily anxious, have severe PTSD, or depressed, to come to him, and he will make music for them
He said that this is not medicine, but if there is music that tricks your mind into thinking you have taken a medicine, then it should be an option for those suffering
Having spent most of his adolescent life medicated to treat ADD/ADHD, Jac developed a dependency on the medications and could not function without them. When he stopped using them, his anxiety was so bad that he was diagnosed with PTSD in 2009; so he took his love for music with his understanding of mathematics and developed music to help himself get off all the medication. Mind Toy Box is the result of his work.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to explore psychedelic integration. They cover different frameworks, resources and benefits of integration and coaching services.
3 Key Points:
Integration is commonly confused as post-session only, but it includes pre-session, self care, and really begins at the point you decide to engage in self-work.
It is important to remember the GPA framework when determining where you are at in the integration process, G – grounding, P – processing, A – action.
Psychedelics Today offers many resources to assist with the integration process; Navigating Psychedelics Online Course (and Live Course), Coaching and Integration Calls, and books, Trip Journal and Integration Workbook.
Kyle says his near death experience shows up in his life everyday
Integration is not only post session, it is also pre-session
Integration, at its root means bringing parts together into wholeness
Joe says you don’t need support to do integration, although it is helpful
Kyle’s analogy of a psychedelic experience as a big hallway with a lot of doors, and a ton of magical stuff, even scary monsters, are coming through the doors and wandering through the halls
The goal is to realize and say “this is a part of me” and learn to be okay with all of the stuff in the hall
Self care works until it doesn’t, and that is when integration comes in
Integration Framework
Kyle uses a framework and asks, what is your GPA?
G – grounding, post session, how are we getting re-connected to ourselves?
P – processing, once energy feels stable and centered, how can we process the material? It could mean journaling, therapy, body or somatic work, breathwork, yoga, etc.
A – action, moving it forward, breaking the leanings down into goals of things to work on
Kyle says that these things do not need to be done in order necessarily, but its a good framework to check in after an experience and see where you’re at
Joe reminds listeners of ‘pre-hab’, that preparation can make a world of a difference and weigh a lot more than post work in a lot of cases
“Life is integration, call your mom, pay your rent.” – Joe
Joe mentions the quote that “the opposite of addiction is connection”
Climate change can bring up a lot of existential dread, the connection piece, and other topics can be addressed with psychedelic integration
You don’t need an integration coach all the time, but for someone to just be there helps
If you have a retreat planned, integration and coaching can really help mitigate the risks
Integration within the psychedelic community is somewhat understood
Kyle says he gets tons of emails asking for medicine sessions
Psychedelic Integration and coaching services do not include medicine or guiding or providing of medicine, its simply pre and post session guidance
Psychedelics Today does not suggest underground or illegal psychedelic sessions/therapy and makes a significant effort to be ignorant of underground work, there are legal options to choose from
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to cover highlights from the Horizons Conference. In the show, they discuss the presentations and topics they heard at the conference.
3 Key Points:
Joe and Kyle attended Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics Conference in NYC, it is a forum that examines the role of psychedelic drugs and plant medicines in science, medicine, culture and spirituality.
Carl Hart gave a compelling talk; Dispelling the Lies that the Psychedelic Community believes about Drugs. Greater than 80% of the effects of drugs used are positive.
Another popular topic was on the economics around psychedelics, and discussion on companies trying to monopolize on psychedelics.
Carl Hart did a talk; Dispelling the Lies that the Psychedelic Community believes about drugs
Greater than 80% of the effects of drugs used are positive
PCP is a psychedelic drug, but the psychedelic community chooses not to own it
Ketamine was derived from PCP
Hamilton Morris said that no drug is bad, it comes down to the dose and how its being used
Poison can be a medicine, and medicine can be a poison, it all depends on dose
No drug should be illegal, drug scheduling should just go away
Some states are starting to ban private prisons
Joe says the drug war is the war on race, the war on class, etc
Joe suggests looking up the Portugal drug law; less overdoses, less HIV, less incarceration, etc
Kyle mentions that in some cultures they would drink alcohol to get into a trance state and dance around all night and then chill for 3 days afterward because they would all be recovering from the hangover
Talks and Topics
Shelby and Madison, co founders from Doubleblind Magazine did a talk
Fiona Misham did a talk on the use of psychedelics for festivals and fun
She talked about having on-site drug testing facilities and how they heighten safety
In 2018 in Europe the MDMA contents were tested at 168milligrams
1 in 5 substances are mis-sold
1 in 20 MDMA samples were long lasting N-ethylpentylone, a drug that keeps you up for 3 days straight
There was also an Economics panel
Kyle says it was a heavy and hot debate
There was a lot of conversation on companies making money on psychedelics
There was worry from some on Compass Pathways monopolizing on psychedelics
Kyle says big and fast growth can be dangerous for mental health
It’s possible that these companies will just push for results to pay off the investment than to really take the time to have slow meaningful sessions and include the therapeutic model
When therapists have more congruence with their client, they get better results
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe interviews Cody Swift from the Riverstyx Foundation. In the show, they talk about Peyote and the troubles for Native Americans and their church not having access and preservation of Peyote.
3 Key Points:
RiverStyx is a small family foundation that funds projects that demonstrate the potential for healing and beauty. RiverStyx has funded the preservation of land to protect the sacred Peyote plant.
The Portugal Model shows that decriminalization works. Portugal faced unprecedented overdoses and drug abuse, typically with heroine, and when they turned to decriminalization and treatment, overdoses and incarceration dropped significantly to almost none.
The Native American churches have held onto their ceremonial practices very tightly, and they struggle to find legal and sustainable access to Peyote, their sacred plant medicine.
Cody says, if cane syrup was made illegal because it is killing people, we wouldn’t ban the growth of corn, because it is sacred and used for so many other things
“Jail is one of the biggest problems for mushroom users” – Joe
Joe mentions that he was a little frustrated that Michael Pollan was able to take mushrooms and not go to jail, but the average person could go to jail
Cody says that he highly respects Michael Pollan and what he has done for the psychedelic revolution, and that he thinks that Pollan wouldn’t want anyone to go to jail for this
People like Michael Pollan and Tim Ferriss have done a tremendous job securing funding for Psychedelic Research
Peyote
Native American people had always been close to Cody’s heart
As a philanthropist, he didn’t know where to begin
There is a myriad of problems facing Native American communities
About 5 years ago, it just came into consciousness
He got connected to Sandor of the Native American church
He learned about ceremony and it became absolutely clear that he had to be a part of it
It was an unclear path on how to support the community in the beginning, there was no 501C-3, there were no other philanthropists, the community is so large
“How to support them in the continuance and empowerment of their using of a highly potent and healing substance to treat communities that have suffered so much, that was the key question” – Cody
Looking at the threat and endangerment of the Peyote plant was the most important part of securing the preservation of this sacred plant
Synthetic Mescaline is difficult to access and expensive
Ceremony
It’s hard to track the ancient original threats to the traditions
The Native American churches have held onto the ceremonial practices very tightly
It’s important that white people don’t just come in and tweak the ceremony
The average life expectancy for Native Americans is only in their 50s
They have gone through so much suffering, and they are very awake, sensitive people that are holding this culture and practice close to them
Alcoholism is one of the largest problems in Native American communities, and Peyote has shown to be a highly tangible benefit and cure for alcoholism
Preservation
It has taken over 4 years to begin building these alliances
Riverstyx and Bronners have been the only sources of funding, they need more
Through this, they purchased 605 acres of land for peyote preservation in Texas
600 acres may not solve the Peyote crisis, but it is a start and has opened the doors to connect with other farmers that has now led to 12,000 acres dedicated to peyote preservation
This is to return sovereignty and control to the Native
After the land was purchased, they had a pilgrimage with the Navajo
Peyote is God to them, it’s their connection to the spiritual realm
Native Americans have resisted acculturation and stuck to their ways, that is their strength
RiverStyx Foundation attempts to lessen human suffering caused by misguided social policy and stigma, while advocating enhanced opportunities for healing, growth, and transformation in such areas as drug policy, criminal justice, and end-of-life care. The Riverstyx Foundation believes in the human potential for healing, growth, and transformation. The Riverstyx Foundation works to provide a bridge to the relinquished parts of ourselves, our society, and our ecology, to ease those fears and prejudices by funding projects that demonstrate the potential for healing and beauty, when life is embraced in its fullest expression.
In this episode, Joe sits down with Jordan and Lou from Mycology Now, a company that makes and sells spore syringes for microscopy use. In the show, they talk about the start of Mycology Now, the culture change caused by psychedelics, and personal stories on how psychedelics changed their lives.
3 Key Points:
Mycology Now is a company that produces premium spores for microscopy use. The goal is to spread knowledge about mycology, one spore at a time.
We are living in an age of information that has never been experienced before, people have the tools to break the stigma on their own just by educating themselves.
Psychedelics are becoming a culture change agent, more and more people are becoming accepting of psychedelics, and psychedelics are helping people come together to create positive change.
Jordan and Lou are co-owners and creators of Mycology Now
The company runs out of Florida
Mycology Now is a company that sells spores for microscopy
They have two locations in Denver
The mission of the company is to spread spores and knowledge
Lou shares how his interest in mycology began
He says it began with his struggle with depression and suicidal tendencies
Psilocybin had ended up being the only thing that helped with the struggle, the depression was completely erased
Jordan shares his story
His mother was in a relationship when he was about 10 years old with an abusive man
This man abused narcotics, opioids
He was abusive mentally, physically and emotionally
He grew up being convinced that he wasn’t worthy of love, and he blamed himself
About 2 years ago, he discovered mushrooms, and was able to go into the painful parts of his childhood and forgive himself and heal from his trauma
“Although negative things did happen to me, and to my family, I was not the cause of it, and I should not have to carry that around with me.” – Jordan
He wants to do everything in his power to bring that to the rest of the world
Shattering the Stigma
One thing that they have noticed about the younger generation is that they are way more open and have way more acceptance of psychedelics and an interest in self care and mental health
“We are living in an age of information that has never been experienced before, people have the tools to break the stigma on their own just by educating themselves.” – Jordan
Joe mentions that in Colorado, psychedelics are a bit normalized to have conversation about
In Florida, the median age is 55, so there is more of a challenge because people that age grew up in the taboo time of psychedelics
The start of Mycology Now
It organically grew into a website
Lou says it was an entity that grew on its own
Joe predicts that in 2020, we are about to see the Psilocybin movement really take off
Joe brings up the Paul Stamets Stack, which is Cubensis, Lions Mane and Niacin
There are testimonials about auditory changes that you can measure, you can increase your ability to hear frequencies
They bring up an example of a deaf man being able to hear the waves of the ocean for the first time after practicing the Stamet’s stack
Psychedelics as a Culture Change agent
Some people say its the worst time in history, and other people say this is the best time in history
There is a hunger of more digestible ways of receiving information
Psychedelics can help us understand the impermanence of things
Lou brings up that Paul Staments and Dennis McKenna were the catalysts to his understanding of mycology
Jordan says that his inspiration and influence came from people at music festivals
People are very open and authentic when on psychedelics
Meeting real people with real lives who had profound change in their lives because of psychedelics are his major sources of inspiration
Psilocybin for Cancer and Depression
Lou’s sister was diagnosed with Metastatic breast cancer with a double mastectomy and was diagnosed with depression afterward
After talking about the health benefits, she took psilocybin, and laid down and disconnected with her body
Afterward, she was able to come out of it and talk about her ease with death
The experience felt like death itself, and having felt what death might feel like, she no longer experiences depression about her cancer
Final Fun Fact
Johns Hopkins psilocybin study on smoking cessation
80% of people were abstinent from smoking cigarettes on a 6 month followup
Those people smoked an average of 19 cigarettes per day for an average of 31 years of their life
About Mycology Now
Mycology Now is a humble small business dedicated to spreading awareness. They are a company that makes and sells spore syringes for microscopy use. Their Mushroom Spore prints and syringes speak for themselves; always having a heavy spore count.
In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Daniela Peluso, Cultural Anthropologist and Associate Director at Chacruna. In the show, they discuss guidelines for the awareness of against sexual abuse in Ayahuasca ceremony.
3 Key Points:
Ayahuasca settings bring together shamans and participants, and with the increasing occurrence of such encounters, there is an alarming rate of incidences where shamans make sexual advances toward participants during or following ceremonies.
Ayahuasca is a commonly used substance for seducing participants looking for healing, whom then return from their retreats needing additional healing from sexual abuse.
This guideline reviews some of the key behaviors to look out for and ways to prepare before attending an Ayahuasca retreat to avoid and protect oneself against sexual abuse.
There was an initiative that made a guideline for doing Ayahuasca but it was held back because there are so many different ways ceremony can be performed and it wasn’t accurate
Drinking with friends is wise
Drinking with experienced women or a couple is another wise move Abuse mainly happens to women but it does happen to men as well There is a higher chance for a person to speak up when they have someone they know and trust there with them Ayahuasca tourism is why sexual abuse is such a problem When someone doesn’t know that touch is out of the norm in ceremony, they might accept it because they were never informed that it’s wrong They may think that being touched sexually is just a part of the ceremony, and it’s not AyaAdvisors and Tripadvisor are both decent resources for reviews on Ayahuasca centers/ceremonial retreats Unless something goes terribly wrong, you will usually get good reviews Places also change over time
It’s not necessary for healers to touch intimate parts of your body or any area to which you do not consent There are forms of healing where the body is touched, so it’s important for the person to make known what is okay and not okay from the start
Curaciones, Sopladas and Limpiezas do not require you to remove your clothes If a shaman removes clothing, that may be a warning sign because that is not a part of tradition
Look out for warning signs that a healers intentions with you might be sexual When healers start to talk about how they aren’t married or that they can give you ‘special treatment’ or that sexual or ‘love magic’ is necessary for healing, that is a warning sign Use common sense and draw the line immediately if anything sexual comes up
Sexual Intercourse between healer and patient during ceremonies or directly after the ceremony is not acceptable in Ayahuasca tradition
Sexual intercourse with a healer does not give you special power or energy
Consider cultural differences and local behavioral norms when interacting with native healers, letting go of ethnocentrism Having an understanding of what is culturally normal is important
Consider cultural differences and local clothing customs
Protect your personal space, physically and spiritually Each person has a right to know their body and know what feels right and wrong to them No means no
Be wary if healers offer psychoactive substances other than those used during ceremonies
He is a Shaman, not a Saint! There is a lot more “I am a Shaman” these days, where it used to be more of “I am not a Shaman” Ayahuasca tourism definitely romanticized what being a Shaman really is
If violation occurs, get support People should speak up as quickly as they are able to, vocally or physically “There is no need to suffer in silence” – Daniela
Beware of what might appear to be consensual sex It has a lot to do with having the same form of communication, trust, and power dynamics
Beware of getting romantically involved
If you are aware of or witness sexual abuse, speak up
Final Thoughts
“Individuals have to accept that Ayahuasca has become a business and an industry as much as it is a spiritual practice, and that it includes the trappings of capitalism like exploitation and inequality.” – Daniela
Daniela Peluso is a cultural anthropologist whose current research focuses on indigenous Amazonian communities. She has worked over the last two decades in Lowland South America, mostly with communities in in the Peruvian and Bolivian Amazon. She is actively involved in various local efforts on issues relating to health, gender, indigenous urbanization and land-rights and works in close collaboration with indigenous and local organizations as reflected in her publications. She also specializes on the anthropology of finance. She received her PhD in 2003 from Columbia University and is a senior lecturer in social anthropology at the University of Kent. She is an Associate Director of the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines and on the board of the Society of Lowland South America (SALSA) and People and Plants International (PPI).
In this episode, Kyle interviews Laura Northrup, Marriage and Relationship Somatic Psychotherapist and creator of the podcast, Inside Eyes. Inside Eyes is an audio series about people using entheogens and psychedelics to heal from sexual trauma.
3 Key Points:
If you think sexual abuse is happening, its important to speak up! We live in a world where it’s scary to speak up, but at its core, it’s really scary to not speak up, and to let these things happen to our fellow humans.
Somatic work brings people the autonomy of their body that usually gets taken away when trauma is formed.
Dissociation is usually a side effect of trauma, and it’s common for a trauma patient to take psychedelics and become re-associative after one experience. But, if a patient was traumatized at a young age and dissociated their whole life, becoming re-associated can be stressful, and integration becomes really important.
Inside Eyes is an audio series about people using entheogens and psychedelics to heal from sexual trauma.
Laura says the name ‘Inside eyes’ means to look inward
Sexual violence happens in every community, as well as in the psychedelic community
“Entheogens and psychedelics can wake us up so we can be more empowered and better stewards to the earth. But just because someone uses these substances, it doesn’t mean that they will be operating at their highest self.” – Laura
Somatics
Laura is a psychotherapist in the Bay area who works with survivors of sexual trauma
There is a place where people get with their healing that is very difficult to move past
There is something on a spiritual level that needs to move to heal someone past their ‘block’
Somatic therapy is a huge part of preparing for and integrating these experiences to heal from trauma
Laura says when people talk about their healing, its common to only talk about the part when the entheogen or psychedelic comes in, but maybe not the 6 years of therapy they had before hand
She says she really wants to create the balance of including both the therapy and the entheogenic/psychedelic use
Laura says she also believes in community based healing
There is so much shame in secrecy
One theory of somatic therapy, is that there was a physical response that our body may have wanted to make during a moment of sexual trauma, and psychedelics and entheogens brings those movements out in therapy, to be able to heal
Somatic work brings people the autonomy of their body that usually gets taken away when trauma is formed
Integration
This thing can happen when you become extremely dissociated from trauma, and then you use psychedelics or entheogens, and you become associated after just one experience, thats great
But if you have trauma from a young age and have been dissociated for your whole life, one psychedelic experience can be very stressful
It takes a lot of integration to deal with the difficulties
Ketamine
Dissociation when you’re already suffering from dissociation has a healing effect
“Part of healing is going toward wholeness” – Laura
There is a lot of variation in what someone considers dissociation
“Being embodied is empowering, and being disembodied is different than being dissociated. People can become more embodied after using a dis-associative medicine.” – Laura
Laura also covers how people function in their relationships as they heal from their trauma
Alcohol is legal, its horrible for your body, it causes so many deaths yearly, yet we don’t look at Ayahuasca and MDMA and all these other medicines as a collective culture
Bystanders
If you think something is going on, it’s important to not just be polite and not say anything
The politeness is a sickness that we have in America
Psychedelics and entheogens can be really good at helping us be activists in healing both ourselves and others
We live in a world where it’s scary to speak up, but at its core, it’s really scary to not speak up, and to let these things happen to our fellow humans
Psychedelics and Entheogens get people into a deeper sense of their own truth
“We need to be in a globally aware place, we don’t need to just be healing ourselves, we need to all be healing.” – Laura
We need more connected relationships, if you spend today and have a more connected relationship to yourself or someone else, that is one step closer to healing our world
Advice
Just because you get connected to a group, does not mean that that group is the group you need to do your healing with
Do your research, and get references
Laura says she looks at psychedelic and entheogenic substance use from two lenses, she cares about the people taking it, and about the plants themselves
She says that some of these plant compounds are becoming endangered so it’s important to be mindful of that
She also says that some therapists and shamans use bodywork and ‘touch’ so it’s also important to be aware of that before ceremony or therapy
Touch can be both very healing, but also traumatizing, so it’s important to know boundaries
Horizons Event
Laura will be hosting an event at Horizons on sexual ethics in the psychedelic community, sign up here
Laura Mae Northrup is the creator and host of the podcast Inside Eyes, a series that explores the use of entheogens and psychedelics to heal sexual trauma. She is a practicing psychotherapist and educator. Her work focuses on defining sexual violence through a spiritual and politicized lens and supporting the spiritual integrity of our collective humanity. She is a champion of living more fully engaged and responsible lives through the healing use of entheogens and psychedelics. She lives and works in Oakland, CA.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Ben Sessa, a Consultant Psychiatrist who is heavily involved in psychedelic research. Ben comes on to talk about preliminary results from the first ever, MDMA assisted therapy for alcohol use disorder (AUD).
3 Key Points:
Ben Sessa plays a role in leading the current MDMA assisted therapy study for alcohol use disorder, and shares preliminary results.
In the current stage, out of the first 12 patients, 2 have turned back to drinking, 5 have stayed completely dry and another 5 who have had a drink or two but have not relapsed back to their typical levels of consumption.
Most people with a long term substance addiction have a history of trauma. MDMA can help people feel safe, in order to work through and heal trauma.
They had 13 people in the study, and they took data on 4 people
The first caveat in these results is that there was no blinding and no placebo in this study
There is no way to tell that it was solely the drug that resulted in the effects
In terms of tolerability, everyone preferred it to other treatment, there were no bad reactions to the MDMA, there were no negative reactions, it was a total success in terms of tolerability
In the current stage, out of the first 12 patients, 2 have turned back to drinking, 5 have stayed completely dry and another 5 who have had a drink or two but have not relapsed back to their typical levels of consumption
They did a similar study previous to this one except without the MDMA and they had 11 patients, 9 of them went back to their full level of consumption
They chose alcohol use disorder because it’s so difficult to treat
All patients are recruits from local drug and alcohol services
Ben picks them up after they have detoxed, after they have been cured of the physical dependence, but when they have yet to be cured of the psychological dependence
They receive 2 dosing days within their 8 week therapy (usually weeks 3 and 6)
They do 125mg and then half that size dose 2 hours later, which sustains the high
Ben mentions that recruitment is difficult, a lot of people have a drinking problem, but they can’t have patients that are depressed, suicidal, pregnant, epileptic, etc.
Future for the Study
Up until next March, they are continuing to take in new patients for the study to have more data
The next step is to have a randomized control study
This current study is sponsored by Imperial College of London
It’s not a MAPS sponsored study, it’s the first non MAPS, MDMA study
The main papers, with all the data are over a year and a half away from publishing
Addiction and Trauma
“MDMA addiction is as rare as a hen with teeth.” – Ben
“Most people with a long term substance addiction have a history of trauma.” – Ben
Trauma and PTSD is highly treatment resistant
There are certain drugs that inhibit fear response, such as alcohol, heroin, etc
They make you forget the pain but you can’t work with them and do therapy with them, with MDMA you can
MDMA can help people feel safe, in order to work through and heal trauma
“We are all the products of our attachment relationships.” – Ben
Breaking Convention
This past year was the 5th one
There were 1300 attendees from all over the world
What’s wonderful about Breaking Convention is how multidisciplinary it is
There’s the guy in the gray suit in one room talking about high level neuroscience and a hippie with dreads in the other room talking about the spirits that live in the Salvia leaves
Ben says they work really hard to make that balance work
There’s a lot of debate and conflict in the psychedelic movement right now,
Breaking Convention is very important for creating space for this debate
Looking ahead
Ben is looking into opening a clinic
He mentions academia is not his area of study, he is a clinician, but this research is an excuse to treat patients
Ben Sessa is a consultant psychiatrist in adult addictions, working part-time at Addaction in Weston-Super-Mare and is senior research fellow at Bristol, Cardiff and Imperial College London Universities, where he is currently taking time off clinical medical practice to study towards a PhD in MDMA Psychotherapy. He has specialist training as a child and adolescent psychiatrist and is interested in the developmental trajectory from child maltreatment to adult mental health disorders. Dr Sessa’s joint interests in psychotherapy, pharmacology and trauma have lead him towards researching the subject of drug-assisted psychotherapy using psychedelic adjuncts. He is the author of two books exploring psychedelic medicine; The Psychedelic Renaissance (2012) and To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic (2015) and is currently conducting research with Imperial College London and Cardiff universities studying the potential role for MDMA-assisted therapy for the treatment of PTSD and alcohol dependence syndrome. Dr Sessa is outspoken on lobbying for change in the current system by which drugs are classified in the UK, believing a more progressive policy of regulation would reduce the harms of recreational drug use. He is a co-founder and director of the UK’s Breaking Convention conference.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Rachel Anderson and James Franzo, founders of the EDELIC Center for Ethnobotanicals. In the show, they talk about the benefits of creating a healing practice using botanicals such as Kratom and the need to decriminalize all plants.
3 Key Points:
EDELIC is a non-profit in Eugene, Oregon that began as a public lending library that has grown to a community of information, events, and conservatory of psychoactive botanicals.
Kratom can sometimes get a bad rep, commonly thought of as an opioid. But Kratom is not an opioid, it just affects the opioid receptors in the brain, respiration never changes, and it’s actually in the same category as the coffee family, so it gives a boost of energy.
There is not an economic incentive that puts the botanical research on the same level as synthetic research. At EDELIC, the goal is to create scientific evidence that validates citizen-led research, authentic scientific information, and create a scientifically valid, open science and praxis oriented, non-commodified access pathway, to and from the direct human & botanicals/fungi relationship while protecting the bounty emerging from therein.
EDELIC is a non-profit in Eugene Oregon that has been operating for 4 years
They started as a public lending library
They put on a weekly discussion group and host events
What started as a library, grew to a conservatory to protect plants, and now includes research
Conservatory
They have 15-16 psychoactive species, such as Salvia, Kratom, San-Pedro, etc.
Volunteers are able to help out in the garden
They are interested in growing the conservatory to have different climates that cater to each individual plant
Events
They have done both a CBD event and Kratom event, and have brought the plants from the conservatory
The events that they have been holding are based on community desire for more information on those plants
Kratom
Kratom has the potential to prevent deaths in the opioid crisis with less initial stigma than ibogaine, psilocybin, etc
The symptoms of withdrawal from Kratom are similar to withdrawal from coffee
Kratom is a plant and the benefits can be harnessed along with a practice
when habits are formed, a person doesn’t need to have a dependency on the Kratom
Kyle mentions that creating a practice is a foreign concept to some people, they think their healing comes solely from the substance and not the practice
The best way to take it is in tea form, and let all the intelligence centers of the body take the medicine in
James says he hears news and TED Talks on Kratom tinctures and extracts, and he thinks that leans Kratom toward that abusive behavior again
Using it continuously and re-upping on the go makes it less of a practice
“In all cases, were encouraging folks to focus on the whole botanical, letting the intelligence of the body to form the relationship with the plant will keep you safer than going in the other direction” – James
The goal is to use the Kratom to take away the pain to a point where the individual has more energy and to say, “what can I do to improve my health in this moment?”
That may look less like taking 100% of the pain away and taking it away just enough to have the energy to create a practice of healing without the reliance on another substance
Its generally safe, it has a predictable response in individuals, and it is legal
Kratom is not an opioid, it just effects the opioid receptors in the brain, respiration never changes, and its in the same category as the coffee family, so it gives a boost of energy
“Botanicals, integration practice, and realizing our internal intelligence centers can really influence and inform our decision making process” – James
Kratom can be tested, and there are industry standards similar to how cannabis is tested
Kratom is highly unregulated and you are taking a risk when not testing it for quality
Decriminalize Nature
In 1994, the World Trade Organization introduced this piece of legislation that says in US Patent Law, minor scientific alterations to natural botanical plants can be patented
Patent law protects scientific adaptations to botanicals, and therefore, the US claimed that third world countries owe us royalties for agricultural products
In Canada, they said to patent an indigenous plant is to steal from the third world country, and i n that case, the US owes other countries over 300 million and in pharmaceuticals, billions
That is why in the US, there is an urge to make money on synthetic versions of these plants
There is not an economic incentive that puts the botanical research on the same level as the synthetic research
The WTO does not recognize technology or innovations by farmers, artisans or grassroots innovators that happen in a grassroots setup
There are churches that are recognized at the federal level, they cant conduct research, but they have access to provide these plants
“We are hoping to create scientific evidence that validates citizen-led research, authentic scientific information, and create a scientifically valid, open science and praxis oriented, non-commodified access pathway, to and from the direct human & botanicals/fungi relationship while protecting the bounty emerging from therein. – James
Rachel notes that all funding so far has been from volunteers and donors
“I am strongly for decriminalizing nature, it protects the indigenous, it protects nature, there is no reason someone should be criminalized for using plants” – Rachel
There is a unique interplay between the laws at the local, state and federal level
Final Thoughts
There is a need for people to come together, a need to not feel alone, a need to share
If anyone is interested in starting a non-profit, Rachel and James are willing to help
Rachel’s focus is on somatic therapies and the healthy integration of plant practices. She has successfully fund-raised, planned and organized public events, hosted intentional integration practices with ethnobotanicals, created artwork, designed integration journals, met with the 4J school board to discuss drug awareness education in classrooms. Rachel brings power, stability, and genuine strength and determination to ECfES and acts as an original steward for the original ECfES vision.
About James Franzo
A 20-year journey of self-education (using what has now become a large part of the lending library we operate) inspired James to launch ECFES. Additionally, gaining experience working in the field of chemical dependency treatment and social services contributed further to his disenfranchisement with current policy and treatment modalities, and attracted him further to evidence-based approaches to drug policy reform and the mental health field in general. Specifically, potent ethnobotanical plants and mind/body methodologies for integrating them. James is also an honorably discharged military veteran, who served for six years. James has been the website content developer @ ECFES, library archivist, team builder, and steward of the original vision for ECFES, an ethnobotanical/psychedelic/entheogenic healing center under one roof.
In this episode, Joe interviews Tep, a chemical engineer and educated, psychedelic enthusiast. They dive into rich conversation regarding drug use education and creating a cohesive meaning among recreational, medical and therapeutic substance use.
3 Key Points:
There is a disconnect between drug education and drug use. There are a lot of people who use drugs, but not a lot of people who are educated on how to use them.
There is a huge advantage of isolating the property of the drug when using them for therapy. For example, using isolated psilocybin vs mushrooms.
Learning on site at festivals and music events may not be super successful, drug education and harm reduction may look more like preparation.
Tep listens to all sorts of music, whether that’s rave style with lights, or jam bands, or a music festival with camping, or even rap and jazz
There is a whole spectrum of drug use in the music environment
She points out that some people are very mindful of what and how much they are taking, and other people are just taking anything they can find, and sometimes a lot or too much
She started to talk to people at festivals and realized that people really didn’t know about the benefits and power of psychedelics
There definitely is a place for harm reduction education at festivals
Drug Use Assistance Groups
Joe brings up the Zendo project and other initiatives that help people who are having a difficult drug experience to walk them out of it
Some festival ‘families’ go around and have missions to hydrate people or make sure people are having a good time
They aren’t staff or paid to do it or anything but they do it for the good of the whole
Vision
Learning on site may not be super successful, most festival goers have an agenda for adventure and music and not for learning at a booth or speaker
Drug education and harm reduction may look more like preparation
Tep mentions Diplo doesn’t allow any drug use at his shows, alcohol is the only allowed substance
Tep thinks that he probably doesn’t know that alcohol is far worse than psychedelics and other drugs
Theraputic Use
When someone goes and has a vacation, they have certain chemicals released in their mind, it is still therapeutic, even if it’s not a psychedelic experience
“Not only can psychedelics be fun, they can also be therapeutic.” – Tep
Tep started going to camping style festivals and started hanging out with a crowd of people 10 years older than her, where their drug use was mature and mindful and safe
Then when she would hang around her younger friend group again, she realized how unsafe and unmindful their drug use was
It led her to be more active in wanting to educate everyone on how to use drugs properly
Exotic Compounds
Shulgin’s magical half dozen includes 2CB, 2CT2, and others
Tep mentions preference of truffles over mushrooms
Her and Joe bring up the decrease in potency of most drugs with exposure to moisture and time and other variables
Compound Isolation
There is a huge advantage of isolating the property of the drug when using them for therapy
For example, using isolated psilocybin vs mushrooms
The therapy is just as important as the substance
There is a way to find information in this community without getting a degree in it
About Tep
Tep is a chemical engineer who had an interest in modern psychedelic research. She is passionate about the EDM and music culture and finding new ways to educate drug users on harm reduction and drug use education.
In this unique episode, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H joins together in conversation with Dr. Andrew Gallimore, Author of Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game. In the show, these two Englishmen discuss Peter’s critique of Dr. Gallimore’s recent book.
3 Key Points:
Dr. Andrew Gallimore’s recent book, Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game, explains how DMT provides the secret to the very structure of our reality.
Based on a recently published review of Andrew’s book, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H sifts through and confronts Andrew’s idea that DMT allows one access to, and existence in a hyperspatial world.
They discuss Peter’s critique, covering topics on information, consciousness, dimensions, dreams and theory.
The first problem is a critique on what information is
The second point regards consciousness
The third point talks about dimensions and theories
Information
The first problem Peter states says that the originality of the work pushes the ideas further toward art and further away from truth
Andrew says he is a fan of making things a work of art, and he says at the start of the book that it isn’t something scientific
In philosophy it’s called speculative metaphysics
“It’s cliche isn’t it, that science fiction eventually becomes science fact.” – Peter
Minkowski Space Time, the theory that Einstein supports, HG Wells wrote about a half a century before Minkowski wrote about it
Peter says that a person could be defined by a set of numbers, weight, height, age, etc.
Andrew says that the information is the electron, and how it interacts with other information
How do we know that there is not more to anything than that which we can know about it?
How matter creates/is mind is a mystery
Consciousness
Peter asks, ‘does information at a high level produce subjectivity?’
Andrew says consciousness is fundamental
Panpsychism holds a distinction between an aggregate and a hold-on
Andrew says that integrated information is consciousness
Information doesn’t emerge from consciousness, information actually is consciousness
Andrew says that he is an idealist, he thinks that the world is structured
Peter says that information always has to be about something
Andrew disagrees and says that information is substantiated
You could say, the fundamental digits of our reality are ran by an ‘alien computer’, the physics completely different than our understanding of reality
Andrew says that the absolute self is not only aware of itself, its aware that it is aware of itself
He also says that these ideas are all musings, all things he has thought about as possibilities
Peter asks Andrew if he thinks brains are required for consciousness
Andrew says, consciousness is not a property of matter, it is an organization of things
Dimensions and Theories
Andrew says we don’t need senses to experience other worlds
The DMT experience is not mind dependent, it shows another reality
When you’re dreaming, it’s independent of the sensory experience, but its not entirely independent of the waking world
“The dream state is informed by the waking state.” – Andrew
Peter asks, ‘If the brain creates dreams, why does the brain not create the DMT world?’
“We know how the brain learns to construct worlds, but we don’t know how the brain learns to construct DMT worlds.” – Andrew
When looking at a machine elf, is he equally as able to deny his consciousness as we are able to?
Final Thoughts
Peter concludes that Andrew is a Realist/Panthiest
Peter and Andrew think that they don’t disagree with each other, but Peter believes Andrew would have to go into extremely deep detail on all of his points in his book, and the book is thick enough as it is
Peter agrees Andrew’s book is a great narrative for mapping the DMT space
Andrew likes to think of it as computational idealism
Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.
About Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H
Dr Peter Sjöstedt-H is an Anglo-Scandinavian philosopher of mind and a metaphysician who specializes in the thought of Whitehead and Nietzsche, and in fields pertaining to panpsychism and altered states of sentience. Following his degree in Continental Philosophy at the University of Warwick, he became a Philosophy lecturer in London for six years and has now passed his PhD (on ‘Pansentient Monism’, examined by Galen Strawson and Joel Krueger) at the University of Exeter, where he also teaches philosophy modules and writing skills. He is now to become a postdoc fellow of the university. Peter is the author of Noumenautics , the TEDx Talker on ‘psychedelics and consciousness‘, and he is inspiration to the inhuman philosopher Marvel Superhero, Karnak.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to have a conversation about the 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival, Healing the Mind, Healing the Planet. Joe attended the conference and heard from many amazing speakers.
3 Key Points:
Joe attended The 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival last weekend, a festival and conference that celebrates all things fungal and brings together a cohort of enthusiasts, experts, and scientists.
There was a lot of talk on the topic of microdosing. Opinions ranged from the feeling that there isn’t enough valid data to prove that microdosing is effective, to some testimony on how microdosing has helped relieve cluster headaches or help with traumatic brain injuries.
There was some exciting news on innovative ways that mushrooms can be used medically to help fight disease or agriculturally to fight insects without using pesticides.
The Telluride Mushroom Festival took place August 14th – 18th
This festival is is a placeholder Psychedelic conference
In the mycology world, the psychedelic topic isn’t typically included in events
Attendees and Talks
Brick Bunyard, who runs psychedelic magazine
Tradd Cotter of Mushroom Mountain, an excitable mycologist
Larry Evans of Blue Portal
Teresa Egbert of Herbal Visionz, a Psychedelic enthusiast
Peter Hendrix and Sara Lappan spoke on a study for using psychedelics to curb cocaine use
David Nichols, chemist, was pretty optimistic about where the psychedelic movement is heading
He gave a super scientific talk around receptor sites and LSD
Music and Psychedelics
Joe says that there is a long history of music and psychedelics
Kyle mentions a podcast he listened to about someone bringing in their own music for a Ketamine therapy session
Psychedelic Therapy
There was someone at the conference that said psychedelic therapists should have psychedelic experiences and should be open about it
It was an interesting conversation at the conference
Joe says, “you don’t need PTSD to treat someone with PTSD, it’s not the most important factor. The most important factor is safety.”
Scientist Conference
Joe mentions a conference coming up in the fall in New Orleans that is a Scientist only conference
If a scientist has published serious, quantitative data they are invited
It’ll be the first gathering of its kind where there is finally enough data
Microdosing
David Nichols shared his opinion on microdosing, that there isn’t real data on it and that importance should be put toward medical uses
Folks in the audience were making claims about microdosing for migraines and traumatic brain injuries, etc
Are people taking sub-perceptual doses or a threshold dose?
Joe says a macro dose is a dose you can see (maybe the size of an ant), micro dose is something you need a microscope to see
The majority of people microdosing aren’t educating themselves on dose size
Interesting Moments from the Conference
Joe was surprised was how charismatic Tradd Cotter was
Tradd has plans to do mushroom retreats in Jamaica
The most exciting news is a new method of pulling out the antibiotic resistant ‘stuff’ in a person, culturing it out and introducing it to sterilized/colonized grain bag and then reintroducing it to the person so they aren’t antibiotic resistant anymore
This would be a mushroom bi-product that fights disease in humans in less than 24 hours
This same model could be used in cancer treatments or even agricultural applications, using mushrooms to fight disease or bugs that kill plants, etc
There were mushroom foraging walks and mushroom identification tables at the festival
Vendors included mushroom kombucha, mushroom jerky, festival clothing, etc
There was a guy from outside of Arizona who casts real psilocybin mushrooms and makes detailed metal jewelry out of them
The town is small and surrounded by super tall mountains, and the festival is dispersed around the town
It’s a small festival and a great way to make connections
“This is where you quit your job and dedicate your life to mushrooms” – Tradd Cotter
Mushroom farming is one of the few businesses you can start with under $5,000
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Daniel Shankin, Founder of Tam Integration. They cover topics including the Psilocybin Summit, child rearing, and integration practice.
3 Key Points:
The Psilocybin Summit is an online conference on the myth, magic and science of psychedelic mushrooms.
Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves. We need to learn to ask ourselves how we can connect deeply without becoming codependent.
Child rearing is an important topic. Nurturing a child with care and love is similar to the way we use psychedelics, meditation and yoga for healing.
Daniel came up in the psychedelic space in the 90’s
Recreational use turned into therapeutic use
He explains that as enlightenment called to him, it also called him to do shadow work
He said the transformational work began in his 20’s
He said there was no community so he used Ram Dass books to help with integration
Daniel says that psychedelics made him feel a deeper sense of life, more responsibility in his role on earth, feel more connected, etc.
His calling from these feelings led him to practice yoga, open a studio, provide trainings and more
“People gain so much by being heard” – Daniel
Child Rearing
Daniel mentions talking to his wife about conscious child raising
The conversation is about how to heal, not just talking about how to raise ourselves so we need less healing
“How do I raise a baby with as little trauma as possible?” – Daniel
Grof talks about the birth process in his books but kind of stops talking about trauma after the baby is out
The baby is designed to be held by the mother, and to put that child in a box with other children in boxes without parents, in a cold and sterile environment is a horrible idea
We project our own anti-social tendencies onto babies
A baby is meant to have constant connection and attention, and when we give a baby neglect, we wonder why they have addiction, depression, etc.
Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves
“How much deep connection can you offer and can you stand? How can I connect deeply without becoming codependent?” – Daniel
Attachment and Healing
As a yoga teacher for 20 years, he has found that there is a type of reparenting, that it is helping people to learn to help themselves
“Caring for people is a good thing to practice, one of our greatest problems is self-centeredness” – Daniel
Money isn’t the problem, “my money” is the problem
Samskara is a subtle tendency of the mind (like an eroded river)
The tendency to prove that we exist, or to prove that we are right, is something that the ego promotes
It takes energy to tame the ego and recondition ourselves
“Am I trying to prove that I exist in order to feel loved?” If our needs are met and we feel safe and loved, we don’t need to prove ourselves
We tend to look for the quickest and easiest way possible for the least amount of suffering, we look for the quick fix, but there is a lot of work to be done typically
It’s important to introduce a meditation practice into a psychedelic practice
Babies will cry into an endless void because they don’t understand time, just like in breathwork or psychedelic sessions, where time is distorted
Mindfulness of Enthusiasm
Enthusiastic consent is where you can press someone into giving you consent
Are they enthusiastic about engaging with you? If not, then don’t
The 920 Coalition is doing for psilocybin what 420 is doing for cannabis
There has never been a conference that is just psilocybin, and never fully online and live
It allows people to attend a conference from home
There is no venue to pay for, no tickets for travel, making it more accessible
The goal is to get as much traditional information as possible
Daniel says he’s not advocating psychedelics, he is advocating meditation for those who use psychedelics
Daniel hopes that with this conference, that he didn’t choose the speakers to just spit facts, hopefully this is heart and mind education that helps people feel like there is something possible in their lives that makes them feel greater, and that may or may not include psilocybin
Coaching vs. Therapy
Some people do not need therapy, they need coaching and accountability
We live in a world where our context does not always work to serve us
After a profound and intense awakening experience in 1998, Daniel dove deep into his yoga and meditation practice to stabilize his realization in his body and the world. He began teaching in 2002, and took over leadership of his neighborhood yoga studio in 2004. He’s directed several teacher training programs and taught on the faculty of even more. Daniel ‘Sitaram Das’ Shankin has dedicated his life to the cultivation of clarity, resilience, and heart. With the recognition that our true nature is vast and generous, wise, he strives to serve his clients in finding their own innate goodness and boundless strength. He currently offers leadership coaching with a heavy emphasis on mindfulness and somatics, and is based in Marin County. You can visit his website and learn more about coaching opportunities at sitaramdas.com.
Download In this episode, Kyle sits down to chat with Greg Kieser, Founder of think-tank, Supersystemic.ly and author of Dear Machine, a book written as a letter to a future super-intelligent entity. Topics covered include blockchain, AI, money, Psychedelic Investments and how psychedelics can help humanity prepare for the emergence of super-intelligent entities.
3 Key Points:
Blockchain offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source.
Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper. Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services.
Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass Pathways is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale.
Greg worked at a foundation in NYC aimed at reducing the rate of poverty
He started an angel investment firm/think tank, Supersystemic.ly
He wrote the book, Dear Machine, a letter to a future, super-intelligent entity
Looking to the Past
Our nutrition narrowed when we became farmers
“The truth is, we can’t go back to where we came from, we have to go to a new place, so how do we do that?” – Greg
There is such difficulty with people living in clusters (cities) and transporting all of the food in from the country
It’s important for the psyche to get back to nature and even taking on a hobby as simple as gardening can be so healing
Children’s immune system has been shown to become stronger when living on farms and playing with animals and in the dirt
Psychedelics are helpful in understanding how interconnected everything is
Integration of Technology
Blockchains have the capacity to take data and pull it into a place where we have more control over it (can’t be bought or sold)
When we combine our knowledge of technology with psychedelics, we will really start to progress as a species
Block Chain
The creator of Bitcoin created BlockChain, which is a type of database that lives out on the internet that no one can own
It offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source
Greg mentions a block chain that will be a regeneration of land
Maybe all the members donate $50 to the block chain, and those members then can follow the progress of a pond or the growth of a tree, etc
Its a good example of a block chain being used for good
Money
Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper
Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services
AI
AI is going to get more and more powerful and corporations and governments are going to want to get their hands on AI for more power
In Dear Machine, Greg wrote about a super aware machine that helps us to make super intelligent decisions based on what food to eat (based on our microbes, our genetics, what is the most sustainable for the environment, etc)
Greg fears that the government will try to take control of it and have its own agenda, but he thinks that with super awareness for decision making, that good will win
Kyle mentions that the Western mind is so obsessed with Apocalypse
AI and Superintelligence are going to accelerate whatever systems we already have in place
If it happened right now, it would look ugly
But, if we create a world that appreciates interconnectedness and the diversity and complexity of our minds and our bodies, then we will be in a much better place
Psychedelics have a huge role to play, it allows us to appreciate things, it helps get our ego out of the way, it helps us break addiction
Monoculturization has led to a lot of bad things
“Don’t try to change the system, just make a new system” – Buckminster Fuller
Human well being and environmental stability are two metrics that we need to work on
Interest in Psychedelics
Greg’s interest in psychedelics began when we was invited to Psilocybin ceremonies
He said it just ‘clicks’
“You really don’t understand what psychedelics are until you take them” – Greg
He then began to invest in psychedelics, microbiomes, agriculture, etc
Compass Pathways
The main problem with the health system is that we get into the idea of patenting molecules
Psilocybin is a molecule that can’t be patented, so he’s not worried
Greg wants to see psilocybin use at a larger scale, so the medical model is a great way to get there
As a part of Compass Pathway’s program, in order to be a therapist and provide the therapy, you have to go through the therapy yourself
Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale
Looking Ahead
Greg is most excited to see healing from opioid addiction
Alcohol and tobacco fall under that in his hopes for healing
Greg is also really excited about the microbiome and the gut connection to the rest of the body
There was an Autism study that gave people with Autism a microbe transplant from healthy people and after 2 years there has been a remission of symptoms Microbiome Reddit
Greg Kieser is founder of Supersystemic.ly, a Brooklyn-based think-tank and angel investment firm dedicated to increasing humanity’s readiness for the emergence of superintelligent entities through the study and spread of “supersystemic” perspectives and innovations. Kieser, whose university and independent studies of complex systems science form the operating thesis of the company, founded Supersystemic.ly after more than a decade overseeing a portfolio of technology initiatives at an NYC-based poverty-fighting foundation. His work at the foundation was driven by a complex set of metrics for measuring the impact of investments on the economic, physical and mental well-being of low-income New Yorkers. Dear Machine, and to a greater extent the company, unites his unique skills and knowledge in technology, social investing and complex systems science.
Download In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. David Nichols, American Pharmacologist and Chemist. Dr. Nichols has made many contributions to the psychedelic space and is recognized as one of the foremost experts for his outstanding efforts in medicinal chemistry of hallucinogens.
3 Key Points:
Dr. David Nichols is the founder of The Heffter Research Institute, which promotes research of the highest scientific quality with the classic hallucinogens and psychedelics in order to contribute to a greater understanding of the mind leading to the improvement of the human condition, and to alleviate suffering.
Dr. Nichols has a strong opposition toward the DMT/pineal gland theory. The assumption is that DMT is released during birth and death, but Dr. Nichols presents opposing arguments as to why it isn’t true.
David doesn’t believe in the research of microdosing psychedelics. He believes there are many other diseases and disorders that research money could be put toward discovering drugs for than the potential for heightened creativity with microdosing.
He is the founding President of Heffter Research Institute
He was introduced to psychedelics before he went to graduate school
David’s work was never interrupted during the drug war because he wasn’t doing any clinical work
He proposed the study for MDMA testing on rats for a micro-dialysis of chemicals being released from the brain
David’s History of Substances
David attended a meeting at the Esalon Institute
He met Rick Doblin, a young kid at the time, who was enthusiastic about MDMA and Marijuana
Rick decided he wanted to develop MDMA as a drug, and asked David to make it with him
Then David met Rick Strassman, who asked him to make DMT
So he made the DMT and then DMT Spirit Molecule came out as a result
David made the first batch of psilocybin for John Hopkins
“The only way to use these substances, is to use the medical model.” – David
Microdosing
David doesn’t agree with microdosing, he thinks its all just a big hype
He says that there is a huge placebo effect with microdosing
He says there isn’t a lot of proven results and literature to make him believe in it
He thinks that there are far too many other things to research and create drugs to cure (like eating disorders for example) vs. just heightening creativity with microdosing
David edited Torsten Passie’s book, The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics
DMT
Rick Strassman’s DMT hypothesis is that upon birth and death, the Pineal gland produces DMT, which produces an outer-body experience
David says that the pineal gland is too small, it’s only 180mg
It produces 25 micrograms of melatonin in 24 hours, so there is no way for it to produce 25 milligrams of DMT, the amount needed for a DMT trip
Heffter Origins
Heffter Research Institute was David’s idea
Arthur Heffter was a scientist with a PhD in Pharmacology and Chemistry
He was one of the most well respected Scientists in Germany
He got samples of Peyote, and knew there were alkaloids in it, and he separated all the alkaloids, and took each alkaloid himself to find out that mescaline was the active component in Peyote
He was the expert who invented hair tests to find out if people were suffering from lead poisoning
Heffter Research Institute
The effects that they discovered from Psilocybin blew them away
They knew LSD had powerful effects, but they weren’t expecting to find the therapeutic benefits that they did with Psilocybin
Psilocybin has a great timeline too, LSD is really long lasting, and 5-MEO-DMT is super short and really powerful
Psilocybin is great for use in therapy because of the time it allows for integration
GMP Psilocybin Patent
Joe mentions the patent of GMP Psilocybin and asks if there are other ways to make psilocybin
David says that he believes there are other ways to make Psilocybin
The cost of psilocybin is trivial in comparison to the cost of therapy, David doesn’t think that the drug itself will have a monopoly
Dr. Nichols originally conceived of a privately funded Institute as the most effective mechanism for bringing research on psychedelic agents into the modern era of neuroscience. This vision led to the founding of the Heffter Research Institute in 1993. He is currently an Adjunct Professor at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC, where he continues his research. The focus of his graduate training, beginning in 1969, and of much of his research subsequent to receiving his doctorate in 1973 has been the investigation of the relationship between molecular structure and the action of psychedelic agents and other substances that modify behavioral states. His research has been continuously funded by government agencies for more three decades. He consults for the pharmaceutical industry and has served on numerous committees and government research review groups. Widely published in the scientific literature and internationally recognized for his research on centrally active drugs, he has studied all of the major classes of psychedelic agents, including LSD and other lysergic acid derivatives, psilocybin and the tryptamines, and phenethylamines related to mescaline. Among scientists, he is recognized as one of the foremost experts on the medicinal chemistry of hallucinogens. His high standards and more than four decades of research experience set the tone to ensure that rigorous methods and quality science are pursued by the Institute.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Torsten Passie, Professor of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy with the Hanover Medical School in Germany. In the show, they cover a range of topics on Dr. Passie’s studies on microdosing.
Dr. Torsten Passie will be taking part in a special panel dedicated to microdosing at Breaking Convention 2019 (August 16-18, Greenwich, London), also featuring Amanda Fielding of the Beckley Foundation, Dr David Erritzoe of Imperial College, London, Dr Devin Turhune (Goldsmiths), and Dimitris Liokaftos, exploring myriad aspects of microdosing, including its effects, unknowns, and media representation presented by BC director Nikki Wyrd. Find out more about Breaking Convention: https://www.breakingconvention.co.uk/
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic research in the University setting died off after 2004, but is finally seeing an increase as the psychedelic revolution continues to grow.
There is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs. It’s becoming popular for therapists to use the substances used on their patients, more common to do the self-work before doing the work on others.
Even if microdosing does not produce any significant effects and it is all placebo, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society.
Dr. Passie has been researching psychedelics for 25 years
He specializes in the therapeutic use of psychedelic drugs
He has found difficulties in researching psychedelics during prohibition
Dr. Passie had a mystical experience before using psychedelics and then became interested in psychedelic use
He had grown up as an atheist, a materialist, and his experience required him to change his psychological state
His perception of reality was irritated and he had to see a therapist to integrate this experience
He said that this was frustrating because he was young and still in search for his identity
Through all of this, he decided to study medicine and become a psychedelic doctor
He became very conscious that he was on the right track
Research Studies
The researchers were the only ones doing studies on psychedelic states, there wasn’t much happening at the Universities
He did studies with cannabis, ketamine and even laughing gas
The research then was on how cannabinoids can help with psychosis
They were not successful with that, but it came to be that CBD was a neuroleptic and an anti-psychotic
Research pretty much stopped after 2004 due to new laws and the cost of the research
Dr. Passie does mention that in the past 10 years research has really taken off again and that we are really seeing the renaissance of psychedelic culture
In most of the literature of doctors doing self-experimenting, there is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs
Kyle mentions that MAPS has included into their training protocol to allow for therapists to have self-experiments with the substances that they are using on patients
Kyle also mentions he can’t imagine trying to hold space in breathwork without having had his own experiences with breathwork
Dr. Passie says that the history of self-experimentation with psychedelics has shown that the participants can become ‘gurus’ and lose their objectivity, he uses Timothy Leary as an example
But with only a few times of self-experimentation, maybe 2-4 times, he doesn’t see risks
HPPD
Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a disorder in which a person has flashbacks of visual hallucinations or distortions experienced during a previous hallucinogenic drug experience
Dr. Passie thinks there is a selection bias in what is published about HPPD
Its more common to have a study published that talks about an adverse effect of LSD than a benefit of it
Hundreds of thousands of studies were conducted in the 50’s, and no one claimed that this phenomenon came up
And now one person has conducted a study, claiming that this phenomena exists
Dr. Passie says that this pattern happens among people who are prone to anxiety and who are dissociative
He says that most subjects that claim to experience HPPD, have experienced visuals even before ever taking LSD
Microdosing
It has been known to not have any effects from 15-20 micrograms of LSD
20-50 micrograms of LSD is considered mini-dosing, where you can feel some type of effects from it, but not as much as the full dose
Dr. Passie says it is strange for people to claim to have increased cognition during microdosing based on conventional data that shows that LSD produces poor cognitive function
He thinks that whatever the effects are of LSD at a high dose, that the effects at a low dose are the same, just less, not completely different effects
He believes that there is some placebo effect with microdosing
In terms of the microdosing trend, Dr. Passie is critical about the productivity factor, he does believe in the creativity factor though
The flow state may also be increased with microdosing
He claims that in his own experience with microdosing, he doesn’t experience the flow state, in fact he experiences a feeling of agitation
Combinations
In a study, when patients took a microdose first, and then a little while later, they took a different full psychedelic dose, the microdose impacted the experience of the full dose
It lessened the effects of the full dose psychedelic
Psychedelics and Sleep
Dr. Passie mentions a study where patients were given LSD, both high and low doses, during sleep
What was found was that LSD impacts REM sleep patterns
The dreams were not altered
The REM phases got longer during the beginning of sleep, and then much shorter near the end of sleep
It shows that the impact of sleeping patterns brings someone to feel much different the next day
The Microdosing Trend
Microdosing has much to be explored yet
But even if microdosing does not produce effects, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society
“Microdosing might be a new assimilation process of psychedelics into our culture” – Torsten
Instead of the 60’s where we are taking huge doses, we are taking tiny doses as a slow approach to assimilate psychedelics back into society
Torsten is a professor of psychiatry and psychotherapy affiliated with Hannover Medical School, and led the Laboratory for Consciousness and Neurocognition. He has conducted clinical research on psychoactive substances and has written several books including The Pharmacology of LSD (2010) and Healing with Entactogens (2012). Between 2012 and 2015 he was visiting professor at Harvard Medical School.
In this episode, hosts Kyle and Joe sit down with Psychologist, David Luke, Executive Director of Breaking Conventions, a conference on the better understanding of psychedelics. In the episode, they cover research on psychedelics and transpersonal ecopsychology.
3 Key Points:
Transpersonal experiences are super powerful and can be valuable if integrated properly.
Getting access to drugs at affordable prices for research is difficult for the progression of the psychedelic movement. There is a lot of red tape in studying psychedelics.
There is a growing field for mapping altered states of consciousness using science and research.
He is a co-founder of the Breaking Convention Conference
Breaking Convention
August 16-19, 2019 in London England
There are over 180 speakers, a variety of workshops, and more
David will be speaking about Shamanic perspectives and mapping altered states of consciousness
The topic of David’s speech for the conference is Ecodelia: Towards A Transpersonal Ecopsychology Through Psychedelics.
Parapsychology
Parapsychology is a study of phenomena that questions what we think we know about science
David has conducted pre-cognition experiments with ayahuasca, san pedro, mescaline
Research
David says it’s tricky doing this work because there is a serious amount of red tape around psychedelic studies
Getting access to the drugs and to get a lab to make them specifically for research is outrageously expensive
David says that Compass Pathways is making the research side of things easier
He says that he wants the proper research to be done so that it can be available for all those who need it, and for that he supports Compass Pathways, but if they were to pull something like what happened with Esketamine and making an isomer of Ketamine extremely expensive, then he will not support it
Nature and Psychedelics
Psychedelics provide a feeling of connectedness with nature
People prefer to take psychedelics outside, but overall prefer to have amazing, transformative experiences, which in turn makes them more tuned in to nature
Transpersonal Experience
An experience that is genuinely transpersonal can be useful
Typically after a transformational experience, people question their sanity, they have cognitive dissonance, their world view just isn’t suitable enough to contain a normal sense of reality anymore
Its common for a lot of experiences to need a lot of integration afterward
David leads breathwork sessions
He sees people who have taken loads of psychedelics come in with skepticism about Breathwork, and then leave having the most transformative experience they’ve ever have
“There are no limits to the human mind, and there are many ways to get there, and psychedelics are just the more obvious route.” – David
We get further and further away from figuring out psychedelics as a whole the more hyper-specialized we become in our individual fields
The psychedelic space is a really interesting territory
The things that Terrence McKenna would talk about years ago, we are finally starting to explore with science
David is Senior Lecturer in Psychology at the University of Greenwich where he teaches the Psychology of Exceptional Human Experience. He was President of the Parapsychological Association between 2009-2011 and has published more than 100 academic papers on the intersection of transpersonal experiences, anomalous phenomena and altered states of consciousness. He has co-authored/co-edited four books on psychedelics and paranormal experience, directs the Ecology, Cosmos and Consciousness salon at the institute of Ecotechnics, and co-founded Breaking Convention.
Download In this episode, Kyle interviews David Krantz, Certified Epigenetic Coach, and an expert in nutritional genomics. In the show, they talk about the effects of substances via the implications on an individual’s genetics.
3 Key Points:
Epigenetic testing is a bio-hack for boosting cognitive function and harnessing our creativity and ultimate human potential.
There has been a lot of research done on genetics and the effects of THC. The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally, which varies from person to person.
Each person should be seen on an individual level, and the more we know about our unique genetics, the more we can understand about our interactions with different substances.
David works with clients on creating optimal epigenetic expression
He uses people’s genetics as a guide to look at recommendations for diet, herbs, supplements, etc.
He began looking at cannabis for recommendations and found curiosity in psychedelics too
Epigenetics studies the effects of the modification of genetics
It looks at chemical groups attached to the DNA itself and what happens to them over time
Cannabis and Genetics
The most robust area of research on genetics is THC
David said he has seen some research on Psilocybin and just very recently that liver enzymes are responsible for LSD interactions
It looks at the way people are metabolizing these substances
When you ingest something or smoke it, it has a higher impact on the body, edibles are a great example
Kyle brings up the curiosity of edibles impact being either physiological or biological
Genetics show the body’s cannabinoid levels
The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally
There are two enzymes that break down cannabinoids in the body, Anandamide and 2AG
There is a higher likelihood to use cannabis in a person with lower levels of endocannabinoids
This makes some people high-functioning stoners, and others non-functioning stoners
The substance is neutral, it’s all about the body and how it reacts to it
When the liver breaks down an edible, it makes THC more potent
There is speculation that the slow metabolizers have a better chance of passing a drug test because they don’t have a chance to convert 110HTHC to the COOHTHC
Food and Substance Effects
Kyle mentions someone who was drinking grapefruit juice everyday for 3 weeks, and it potentiated the effects of Ketamine
In order to psilocybin to be converted to psilocin, you need a chemical in your body called alkaline phosphatase
Vitamin C deficiency and Vitamin B-6 deficiency all both correlated with alkaline phosphatase deficiency
David brings up his experience going keto, it worked really great for him, his energy levels increased, he lost weight, but his wife had a horrible time with keto
Then he looked to genetics and it made perfect sense to him as to why it worked for him and why it failed for her
Metabolism, biochemistry, genetics, and so many other factors impact a person’s reaction to substances
David also mentions that with companies like 23 and me, they get their money from selling people’s genetic information
He says Apeiron is focused on what you can actually do with the information, not just simply providing the results
David says its super valuable for people to know these things about themselves, how to mitigate stress, how the metabolism works, knowing what to eat, knowing vitamin deficiencies, etc.
Psychedelics in the Future of Epigenetics
David thinks were going to see that the epigenetics of psychedelics are going to show the ability to overcome trauma
When we look at people at an individual level, we all have our own idiosyncrasies and variations
“Because there is no such thing as an average human, let’s stop treating people like average humans and start treating them like they are individual people. Let’s stop leaving out the outliers.” – David
Taking an individualized approach to the psychedelic space is highly beneficial
David Krantz is a certified Epigenetic Coach who specializes in boosting cognitive function and helping clients harness their creative and personal power. As a lifelong musician, David sees the various systems of the body as parts of a complex symphony. And, as a coach, he excels at fine-tuning those parts to create resonant harmonious health. David also serves as Director of Psychoacoustics at Apeiron Center in Asheville, NC where he develops sound-based tools for better mood, energy, and focus. Additionally, he’s an expert in the pharmacogenetics of the endocannabinoid system and has developed a proprietary genetic test for looking at individual response to cannabinoids. A biohacker by training and artist by nature, David enjoys working with others who have a deep passion for enjoying life.
In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Sam Gandy. During the show, they cover topics including the implications psychedelics have for human well-being and the biosphere at large at a time of growing disconnection.
3 Key Points:
There have been a lot of recent threats to our planet and its survival if we continue on our current path of unsustainability. Feeling connected to nature increases the human desire to take care of and heal nature.
There has been an inverse correlation with our connectedness to nature and our connection with technology. Getting out in nature, as well as using psychedelics in nature, both help increase our connectedness to nature.
There has been a rise in cutting edge research that reveals the capacity of psychedelic substances to enhance human-nature connection, which Sam shares snippets of throughout the episode.
Sam has a PhD in Ecological Science from the University of Aberdeen and a Masters in Entomology from Imperial College London
He has a lifelong interest in nature and wildlife and has conducted research in areas all over the world
He is a Scientific Assistant to the Director at the Beckley Foundation
He is a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at the Imperial College of London
Sam’s interest in psychedelics began in London when it was legal to buy mushrooms
He was ‘anti-drug’ until he discovered psychedelics and began to explore consciousness and a love for nature
His background in Ecology (the science of interconnection) has combined with the Psychedelic field
Sam is interested in the capacity of psychedelics to increase human-nature connection and relatedness
Saving Earth
There is a huge threat that our planet won’t survive past this century if we continue on our path of destruction
Remedying our nature disconnect is something really important if we want to survive
This nature disconnection is inversely proportional from our technological connection
We cant live without nature
We have to make room for all the other life going on, not just the life that directly serves humans, like crops and livestock
There is an increasing awareness of the need for nature connection
Sam mentions about humanity’s screen addiction, it raises our cortisol levels and there are many consequences such as psychological and physiological effects
“Contentment is the enemy of invention”
Psychedelics and the internet are growing alongside each other
Timothy Leary would say the internet is the psychedelics of the future in terms of connection
The internet is playing a pivotal role in access to information in this psychedelic renaissance
“Technology is not good or bad, it’s about how its used, the intent behind it” – Sam
Nature Disconnect
Sam thinks that the first step that took us away from nature is when we started farming, we became less hunter-gatherer minded and stepped away from the wild environment
At that point we started living in large groups (creating cities)
Then there was the division of labor and urbanization
Cities and technology are the main reasons for our disconnect with nature
“Long term sustainability would be one of the chief governing principles of how things are ran” – Sam
Psychedelics and Nature
There is something radical about psychedelics, they can convert the skeptics into appreciating nature
The ego dissolution character of psychedelics are a key component in feeling connected to nature
The default mode network (where the ego resides) becomes relaxed and dissolved, and when that happens there is a breakdown of perceived boundaries between self and others/nature
That dissolution of boundaries is a key component in the psychedelic experience
“When you feel part of it, it changes fundamentally how you relate to it” – Sam
One’s knowledge of nature is a very weak predictor of one’s concern for nature
There isn’t research of the use of psychedelics in natural settings yet, Sam hopes that as we research psychedelics more (in clinical settings) the research can evolve into studying their use in nature
With psilocybin, most people have claimed to have a long-term fleeting change in their connectedness to nature, that the feeling of connection doesn’t go away after the trip is over, it lasts for weeks, months, even the rest of their life
Rigid Egos and Nature Disconnection
Psilocybin decreases blood flow to the default mode network
“When we are destroying our own homes (our bodies and nature) are we falling out of love with our self?” – Kyle
When we dissolve the ego, we increase connection, to ourselves, to others and to nature
Future in Psychedelics
We are going to see the rise of Psychedelic Therapy
We are going to see Psychedelic groups and communities on the rise
From those groups, we will see projects and initiatives develop, which could bring decriminalization, integration circles, etc.
Sam believes the rise of depression and anxiety are a cause of our disconnection to nature, and he believes there is a lot of personal healing to be had if we get back into nature and actually play a role in healing nature too
Instead of trying to save the world just for our children and our children’s children, we need to look at this planet as if we were to reincarnate and come back to this planet, so we should want to look after this physical plane to make it better for future installments of ourselves
Get Connected with Nature
The direct, physical sensory experience with nature alone is well known to increase our connectedness with it
Sam suggest listeners to get out in nature and do anything! Boating, gardening, bee keeping, a walk in the woods, whatever
Sam really likes the art of Japanese Forest Bathing, which is about mindfulness and taking in nature, maybe combining it with breathwork exercises, etc.
The more mindful you feel, the more connected to nature you are, and vice versa
Final Thoughts
Nature connection is just a single facet of the psychedelic experience, and Sam hopes for more research on this facet in the future
We have a decent amount of research on psychedelics effect on people with depression, PTSD, etc, but Sam hints toward some future research on the effects of psychedelics on the healthy-normal population
Make time for nature in whatever way works for you
2 hours of nature time a week are profoundly beneficial for health
Dr. Sam Gandy works on the cutting edge of psychedelic research, as Scientific Assistant to the Director of the Beckley Foundation, and as a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at Imperial College London. Sam has a lifelong love of nature and wildlife, and a PhD in ecological science from the University of Aberdeen. He has been fortunate enough to conduct field research in various parts of the world including the UK, Kefalonia, Almeria, Texas, the Peruvian Amazon, Vietnam and Ethiopia. Outside his work in the psychedelic field he has written papers, book chapters, articles and spoken at conferences and festivals on psychedelics and he is fascinated by their potential to benefit human lives.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and chat with Veronica Hernandez and Larry Norris of Decriminalize Nature Oakland. Decriminalize Nature is an educational campaign to inform Oakland residents about the value of entheogenic plants and fungi and propose a resolution to decriminalize our relationship to nature, which just recently had success in doing so.
3 Key Points:
Decriminalize Nature Oakland is a campaign that just recently found success in decriminalizing psilocybin mushrooms as well as other psychedelic compounds naturally derived from plants or fungi, such as ayahuasca, peyote and DMT.
The mission behind Decriminalize Nature is to improve human health and well-being by decriminalizing and expanding access to entheogenic plants and fungi through political and community organizing, education and advocacy.
These decriminalization initiatives are gaining traction across many cities in the US. It’s about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there, to provide access to people everywhere.
Veronica is a clinical psychologist licensed in Peru
She has been working in the US as a Social Worker Clinician
She has been combining plant medicines and spirituality back into psychology
She is currently finishing her PhD at CIIS
About Larry
He is in the same PhD program as Veronica
Him and Veronica are the team that created ERIE
In between they have taken the time to run Decriminalize Nature Oakland
Decriminalize Nature
In this initiative, they had to convince 8 people of city council to agree to this, in comparison to the Denver Initiative, where they needed thousands of ballot signatures
This bill included naturally occurring psychedelic compounds, not just mushrooms
Larry mentions they used the word entheogen instead of psychedelic, as a way to create new conversation around the plant medicines a reduce the stigma
A Win for Plant Medicine
From where Veronica comes from, Ayahuasca and other plant medicines are national patrimony, state and church can’t touch them
To be able to bring these to a place where it’s considered schedule 1, Veronica is super inspired about being able to make this happen
Right now these plants are in a tug of war between money interest of the tax side and the government, and the other side of corporate interest
The goal now is to educate people on what these plants do, safe practices and develop places and services to hold the space and make these plants available to people
It’s about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there
Starting city by city is typically easier to initiate, to then have a better hold on direct action and education afterward to be able to duplicate on the state level
They have had 50 different cities from 30 different states reach out to make this happen in their communities
Veronica says that her first time trying San Pedro, she had felt an immediate connection to the plants
It became her goal to combine conventional medicine with plant medicines and make it available to everyone
“To be in touch with something bigger than yourself is one of the most important things” – Veronica
Sustainability
Although there was no verbiage in the bill, they are being mindful about sustainability of the plants when making them more available with decriminalization
Synthesis is a better idea for ibogaine, 5-MEO-DMT and other compounds that are naturally derived but also pose a risk to their sustainability with decriminalization
The landscape just doesn’t allow for synthesis right now, so we start at decriminalization and then hopefully open doors to the route of synthesis to aid in the sustainability of these substances and resources
Larry’s advice is that instead of spending your money and taking a trip to Denver or Oakland, to stay home and organize this is your own community because it can actually happen
It starts now and it starts with education
Joe says the most major push-back received in Denver for the decriminalization was the threat of people driving on mushrooms
Veronica Hernandez, is a clinical psychologist and shamanic practitioner from Peru. Since 2006 she has been trained on shamanic facilitation. She received her clinical training at the Institute of Rational-Emotive Therapy, New York, under the supervision of Dr. Albert Ellis. She was assistant professor at the Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia and research assistant at the Hospital Psiquiátrico Noguchi de Lima (Peru). In the United States, she worked as a Social Services Clinician at John Muir Health Hospital’s Inpatient Psychiatric Adolescent Unit, California. Currently she is completing her doctoral degree at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS), San Francisco, where she is carrying out research on the healing and transformative benefits of entheogens, especially Ayahuasca.
About Larry
Larry Norris, MA, PhD Candidate is the co-founder and executive director of ERIE (Entheogenic Research, Integration, and Education) 501(c)(3), a group dedicated to the development of entheogenic research and integration models. Larry is also a co-founder and on the Board of Decriminalize Nature Oakland and helped to co-author the resolution which received an unanimous decision from Oakland City Council. Beginning his studies in cognitive science as an undergrad at the University of Michigan, he is now a PhD candidate in the East-West Psychology department at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco. His dissertation reviews archived ayahuasca experiences to identify transformational archetypes that induce insights hidden within the experiences. As adjunct faculty at CIIS, Larry taught a graduate course called Entheogenic Education: Contemporary Perspectives on Ancient Plant Wisdom in order to discuss the concept of entheogens as educational teachers and cognitive tools. He was also an adjunct faculty at John F. Kennedy University teaching a class titled Paradigms of Consciousness. A dedicated activist and proponent of cognitive liberty, Larry’s efforts are a contribution to not only change the Western legal status of these powerful plants, fungus, and compounds, but also to emphasize the potential sacred nature of entheogens given the right set and setting.
In this episode, Kyle talks with Tom Lane, author of Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl. In the episode, they discuss the history of Quetzalcoatl, the ceremony of the deified heart and sacred mushroom rituals.
3 Key Points:
Quetzalcoatl is a feathered-serpent deity of ancient Mesoamerican culture that can come to you when partaking in the ceremony of the deified heart. Quetzalcoatl teaches how to overcome fear and hatred and bring love.
The ceremony of the deified heart is a sacred mushroom ritual that when methods are combined correctly, can bring about Quetzalcoatl.
In the episode, Tom tells intriguing stories of his experiences with mushroom rituals and experiencing Quetzalcoatl, including a ceremony with Maria Sabina.
He was not an Aztec, he originated as a King in the Toltec civilization thousands of years before the Aztecs
As legend has it, where his blood fell is where the sacred mushrooms grew
Some people believe he was a Naga, a combination flow of energy, a male/female serpent
A winged, jeweled, male/female, serpent
In the ceremony of the deified heart, the serpent will come to you
About Tom
He was building geodesic domes in a remote area in Mexico
He had some of his first mushroom experiences, and it led him to realize that the story of mushrooms was about Quetzalcoatl
His first experience with the mushroom was mild
He said the mushrooms found him, he takes them as a sacrament
Ceremony of the Deified Heart
The legend was that Quetzalcoatl gave cacao to participants as an aphrodisiac and it would help release serotonin
The goal is not to talk a lot
Then, the mushrooms are to be retrieved from the ground, fresh
Before the ceremony, Tom says he likes to put four candles placed in all four directions
The key to eating the mushrooms is eating them totally covered with honey
You eat them two at a time, as it represents the male and female
And when you eat the mushrooms, you actually never swallow
You chew and chew and the mucous membranes of your tongue take the psilocin straight to the brain and spine
He says once it starts to take effect, it feels like there is a snake up your spine (He mentions his friends call this Kundalini)
Then you go out and Quetzalcoatl will come
When he comes, he is like a rainbow jeweled serpent, an embodiment of pure light, pure energy, pure love
Tom says the next day it feels like you’re 10 years younger
Its a pure force of love, an obliteration of the concept of time
Quetzalcoatl created this ceremony to bring about the serpent for healing, for a balance of male and female
This ceremony is best done during the night, with thunderstorms in the mountains
Ceremony with Maria Sabina
One night they went to see Maria Sabina
She agreed to do a ceremony at night
Her house was in the mountains and had a thatched roof with no windows or doors and sometimes clouds would come through her house
During a ceremony a lightning bolt came though the house, in one window and out the other
Maria’s daughter gave him truffle like mushrooms and he brought them back with him
Maria’s daughter really tried to learn his name, she repeated it a multitude of times until she said it exactly perfectly so she could say it during the ceremony
Quetzalcoatl Messages
God gave us love and pain
We have to learn how to celebrate the pain
God gave us knowledge, and tools of how to heal the pain
Tom’s goal is to teach people how to take the sacred mushrooms to meet Quetzalcoatl and find healing, love and peace
“Once you get rid of the ego, you get rid of fear, and then you have love.” – Tom
The only way you can overcome hatred and fear is with love
The body is teaching the mind when consuming the sacred mushroom
It’s best to just try to love people and be kind, and it’s all acts of kindness and love that makes a person feel good
Tom, Author, has a Bachelors in Forestry from the University of Tennessee and a Masters from the University of Florida in Science Education and Middle School Education. He has worked full time in the Solar Energy field as a Contractor and Trainer and has a background in Mushrooms. Tom spent some time in 1973 living in the jungles of Palenque in Mexico and learn about mushrooms and mushroom ceremony. Tom is the Author of the book, Sacred Mushroom Rituals, The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Alexander Belser, a Clinical Researcher who has done a variety of works in the psychotherapy and psychedelic fields, helping patients heal from depression, OCD, suicide, and other illnesses, all while focusing on gender neutrality and equality. In this episode, they cover topics on privilege, inclusivity and recommendations for the psychedelic space.
3 Key Points:
Privilege is commonly seen in therapist roles and as well in an individual’s access to treatment. It’s important for the psychedelic community to be vocal about privilege and be inclusive of all types of people, all repressed groups.
Psychedelics have the power to help people come to terms with their own sexuality, as well as become accepting of other individuals sexual identification.
In order to see more equality in the psychedelic space, we need to confront structural heterosexism and transfobia, retire the male/female therapy diad, and develop acknowledgement in the psychedelic world of the stresses that LGBTQ people face.
Alexander started attending psychedelic conferences in college
He works at Yale currently, treating individuals with major depressive disorders with psilocybin assisted psychotherapy
He lives in New York and works on a team for the MAPS, MDMA trial for the treatment of PTSD
Queering Psychedelics
Queering Psychedelics is a Conference put on with the help of Chacruna
Its an opportunity for Queer folk to come together and talk about psychedelic medicine
Alexander’s presentation was on Queer Critique for the Psychedelic Mystical Experience
Privilege and Inclusivity
People with more privilege have more power, more access to funding, more access to expanding the research agenda
Many of the people in psychedelic research are privileged, white, cisgender individuals (and Alexander believes they are using the privilege for good)
But it’s important for the psychedelic community to be vocal about privilege and be inclusive of all types of people, all repressed groups
Alexander thinks that we need to eliminate the male/female diad
The typical structure for psychedelic therapy is to have a male cisgender therapist and a female cisgender therapist
But Alexander thinks this is gender essentializing
Its totalizing of gender, assuming that the masculinity is held by the male therapist, and femininity is held by the female therapist
Alexander thinks that the therapists should be more gender neutral
Its essential to assess the individual needs of the client for specific gender pairing
Recommendations
Alexander’s Reccomendations
Confront Structural Heterosexism and Transfobia
Retire the Male/Female Therapy Diad
Acknowledgement in the Psychedelic world of the stress that LGBTQ people face
We need to be able to run moderation analyses to see if a type of psychedelic treatment works the same for sexual minority populations as it does for straight folks
Are there unique clinical considerations for sexual minorities?
The psychedelic Renaissance is maturing and reaching a point where our approaches can be more inclusive
He thinks it’s important for straight folks to think about this too
“We all suffer, including straight folks, in a world where the idea of gender and sexuality is firmly printed as either being A or B. It’s a disservice to our identities.” – Alexander
It is common to feel “oneness” after a psychedelic experience, and it’s common for gender roles to change throughout the process
And on the flip side, maybe our perception of other people’s gender (homophobia) transforms from a psychedelic experience, and we can become more accepting of other forms of gender
Mystical Experience
When people score higher on the mystical experience questionnaire (profound unity, transcendence of time and space) its predictive of their improvements on depression and anxiety
It’s important to be mindful of what value we put on marginalized people’s psychedelic experiences
The most common issue Alexander sees is people feeling ‘stuck’ in these bodies
Psychedelic medicine encourages (at least in appeal) embodiment
Final Thoughts
First, we need to come to terms with our own internalized homophobia, transphobia and racism
Together, we learn from each other, how to dismantle types of patriarchal, homophibic and transphobic structures
MDMA expanded access may probably end up being very expensive, we need to think about privilege and access to mental healthcare broadly
It’s not just about diversity, Alexander encourages people to create allies
He has hope that we can proceed with integrity in these topics
Alexander Belser, Ph.D., is a Clinical Research Fellow and clinical supervisor at Yale University. He is the Co-Investigator of two studies at Yale exploring psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy to treat OCD and depression. His research with sexual minority people has focused on preventing suicide among adolescents and on the protective role of gay-straight alliances for students. Dr. Belser was a founding member of the Psychedelic Research Group at NYU in 2006, and he is currently an Adjunct Faculty member in NYU’s graduate program in Counseling Psychology. He has been a researcher on various psychedelic studies of depression, anxiety, OCD, addiction, trauma, and among religious leaders. He is a study therapist for the MAPS study of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD. Dr. Belser serves as a peer reviewer and has published peer-reviewed articles on topics such as psychedelic mysticism, altruism, patient experiences in psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy, cancer and psychedelic therapy, case studies, psilocybin treatment and posttraumatic growth (forthcoming).
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In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Ido Cohen, co-founder of The Integration Circle. In the show, they talk about themes that arise from transformative experiences and the different ways to integrate them through attitude change, environment, and community.
3 Key Points:
A common theme after a transformative experience is the calling for an attitude change. The experience is only the first step, the integration is where the real work begins.
The environment is a critical part of integration. You can’t always change your environment, but you can change your relationship to it by forming new coping mechanisms than the ones used before a transformative experience.
Joining consciousness events, finding a therapist and looking for integration circles are all great way to not feel so ashamed or alone after a transformative experience.
Ido is a Clinical Psychologist based in San Francisco
He works with individuals and couples in integration groups
Ido graduated from the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)
He did his post-doctoral internship at C.G. Jung Institute in San Francisco
He went to India and it opened up the psycho-spiritual realm for him
He realized there is a lot more to this reality than what we see
He had a powerful Ayahuasca experience, and it led him to choose his dissertation project
He wanted to know how to take his experience and integrate it into his daily life
Integration
Ido began talking to people who had big transformative Ayahuasca experiences (pre, during and after)
He interviewed people at a year out of an Ayahuasca experience, so they had time to reflect
“For most people, something is calling them. Either curiosity or suffering.” – Ido
The message comes through a relationship that we are having with something
People felt that they had to go through something personal before they were able to go into archetypal realms
A theme afterward was a difficulty of re-entry (integration)
Another common theme was people realizing that they need to change their attitude in order to heal
It starts with small steps, maybe instead of watching TV for 2 hours you go for a hike for 2 hours, you open up to make room for change
Ego and Self
Jung’s idea of ego-Self axis; there is the ego that takes things and organizes them and processes things into our reality, and then the self that is the unconscious, the imaginary and dream state
The idea is to look at the relationship between the two
Are they fighting or are they in harmony?
The role of community is so important
“We need to learn to integrate not just the negatives, but also the positives.” – Ido
Having pleasurable experiences can feel unsafe to a person who has been through a lifetime of negatives
Transformative Experiences
Personal and Environmental
Most people have these experiences, and come back to the same urban environment, the same work mindset, the same cultural ideas about “achieving”, the instant coffee mentality
“We want things fast because we don’t want to suffer, we don’t want to wait, we don’t want to invest, we don’t want to change.” – Ido
“When people come back with this new experience but to an old environment, then the question is, ‘How can I not let the pressure of this old environment get in the way of my experience?’” – Ido
It really is all about changing your attitude
Maybe go journaling, go into nature, go dancing, etc.
“How do I honor my process and not succumb to the pressures of using the same coping mechanisms as I had before?” – Ido
Integration is a complex process
Environment
You can’t always change your environment, but you can change your relationship to your environment
You can start looking for integration circles
You can start looking for therapy
You can go to consciousness events, meditation/yoga groups
It really depends on the person but it’s all about finding resources that help you feel more connected, less ashamed, and less alone
One of Ido’s clients said to him “I realize I have to break my own heart if I really want to change”
Spiritual Bypass
Ido suggests a great book on understanding spiritual bypass
Dr. Ido Cohen is a clinical psychologist who got his doctoral from the California Institute of Integral Studies. He practices relational and depth-oriented psychotherapy with individuals and couples in San Francisco. As his Doctoral research, he conducted a 6-year study on the integration process of ayahuasca ceremonies from a Jungian perspective and has been providing preparation and integration services to individuals/couples/ groups in the bay area. He is also the co-founder of The Integration Circle, a community of practitioners who offer integration circles as well as diverse support to those who are preparing or integrating experiences of expanded states of consciousness.
In this episode, Joe interviews Raquel Bennett, Psy.D. at Kriya Institute. In the show, they cover topics surrounding the properties and paradigms of therapeutic Ketamine use.
3 Key Points:
The Kriya Institute is devoted to understanding the therapeutic properties of Ketamine. Raquel Bennett specializes in using Ketamine therapy for patients with severe treatment resistant disorders.
There are three questions that should be used when determining if someone is fit for Ketamine therapy. Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it ethical?
There are many different paradigms for Ketamine Therapy, but determining the best method for each individual patient is the goal.
The Kriya Institute deals with how to work with Ketamine specifically in Psychiatry and Psychotherapy
Kriya provides clinical services to patients, training for other clinicians, and Kriya conference
The conference is a big collaborative meeting
Raquel is trying to create a patient assistance fund to make services more available to people
Ketamine
Ketamine isn’t addictive physically
It is possible to become psychologically addicted to Ketamine
Raquel thinks its a property of the person not of the object
It’s possible to become addicted to anything, shopping, sex, etc.
About Raquel
She first encountered Ketamine in 2002 when she was suffering from severe depression
She was seeing a therapist that took her to a psychedelic shaman where she took Ketamine
From the way she felt after taking Ketamine, she wanted to know if it was replicable for other people
She is interested in people with treatment resistant mood disorders, such as severe depression, unusual bipolar disorder and people living with active suicidal ideation
She remembers her teachers (who gave her Ketamine) saying they don’t use it often, and don’t know if it will work
They were not seeking an antidepressant effect, they were helping her to connect to the cosmos and the universe, to find out why she was having such severe depression
The fact that it acted as a rapid-acting antidepressant was a surprise to them, and that’s what triggered her curiosity with it
“Most of what I know of being a Ketamine provider, I learned from being a patient” – Raquel
Ketamine and Patents
Johnson and Johnson just came out with a filtered Ketamine product that they patented
$850 for 84mg of filtered Ketamine
$1.59 for 100mg of generic Ketamine
They are only providing it as a nasal spray
Companies tried to make a new molecule, but they couldn’t
Instead, they modified it, and filtered it, and then patented it (Esketamine)
Ketamine Treatment Paradigms
There is a lot of disagreement on the route, the dose, the setting importance, etc
This was the reason she created the Kriya conference, to share ideas, to find the best possible methods
One way is to give it as a low dose infusion out of the anesthesiology model (0.5mg of Ketamine per kg of bodyweight in an infusion center)
They aim to get enough ketamine in the patient’s body without the psychedelic effects
They take the normal dose, divide it by 6, and space it out to avoid the psychedelic nature
The patient is being forced into a passive role, they aren’t being called to heal themselves, they are just showing up for the medicine
Raquel says that’s not all that there is to it, the medicine is only half of it
Another paradigm for using Ketamine is facilitated Ketamine Psychotherapy
In this way, the Ketamine is used as a lubricant for talk therapy
We are using Ketamine to help people to talk about material that is too painful or too shameful to get to otherwise” – Raquel
In this paradigm, the emphasis is on the therapy, not the Ketamine, the Ketamine is a lubricant and a tool
In this way, the patient and the therapist are both participating 50%, the patient is not passive
She says the psychedelic effects are to be avoided, or else the patient becomes too far out
The third paradigm would be to induce mystical experience on purpose
As a provider, it is believed that the visions are meaningful
Only about 1 in 6 patients are actually a good candidate for psychedelic dosing
The patient is willing to offer their body up as a vessel, and the messages they receive are from God
The provider’s role is to make sure the journey is safe, and then help the patients to help construct meaning from what they saw, create actionable steps on how to change their lives
Raquel says that all of these paradigms are helpful, different methods work for different patients
That’s her job as a Ketamine Specialist, to determine which method is best for patients
“This is where the direction of the field needs to go, being aware of the spectrum of the services available, and then matching the treatment to the patient. Individualized treatment.” – Raquel
Proper Use
Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it ethical?
Is it appropriate to give Ketamine Treatment to someone without a profound impairment or disorder?
The literature supports the use of Ketamine for the following psychiatric or psychological disorders; major severe refractory depression, bipolar depression, physical pain with depression, recurrent suicidality and obsessive compulsive disorder
Do the potential benefits verify the potential risks?
Raquel doesn’t believe that making this experience available to everyone is the right way, her goal is to demonstrate that Ketamine is safe and useful for refractory problems
Group Administration
They can work with 6 clients at a time
It includes carefully selected individuals that all fit into the group
This provides a much lower cost for patients
Ketamine Types
There are 3 Types of Ketamine
The molecules themselves are not flat, they are 3 dimensional and fold in space
Some molecules are ‘right handed’ and others are ‘left handed’
Right handed molecules are Arketamine and left handed are Esketamine
Generic Ketamine is an even amount of Arketamine and Esketamine molecules
What Johnson and Johnson did with Esketamine was patenting the filtration process of removing Arketamine from the Esketamine molecules
Kriya Institute Site
Kriya Conference in November
A list of providers working with therapeutic Ketamine
Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.
Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Ben Eddy, a Black Belt from Eddy Bravo’s 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. In this episode, they cover a range of topics on Jiu Jitsu, Psychedelics and flow state.
3 Key Points:
Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything. Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ type of game, and it allowed him to tap into a flow state.
Psychedelics have the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns, and when combined with a sport like Jiu Jitsu, you’re able to achieve a type of embodiment you wouldn’t have before.
We do not need to rush into psychedelics at a young age. It is important to experience life for what it is first, and to feel that fully to have a comparison to after diving into the psychedelic realm.
Ben got into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu when looking for a way to get in shape
He was in San Francisco in the tech scene
He was into wrestling in his past and competition and he found that Jiu Jitsu was similar
His main instructor, Eddie Bravo, was training for a match
He wanted to be around the energy of this event
He moved down to southern California and that is where his psychedelic use began
Ben knew that when he was going to do psychedelics, there was going to be a before and after, that there were going to be doors that were going to be opened
He says he took the time to really understand the sober life before psychedelics, in order to know the difference
Ben describes it as a cool opportunity to wait to use psychedelics, he had the choice to wait and experience life and figure out what life is before psychedelics
Joe says for the younger listeners “meditate on that”, figure out life first before diving into psychedelics
Strategy vs Flow
Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything
Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ game, where there is more of a ‘flow state’
He was running into people that could just ‘find answers in the moment’, there was no plan or no strategy, it was a natural flow
Psychedelics and Training
Training with an active dose was hard to get to at the start
Ben trains now with active doses
It has the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns
Ben’s active dose is 2 grams of mushrooms during a practice
Ben does mention that all people are different and his active dose is different than anyone else’s
Jiu Jitsu makes you bring everything that you have up to the forefront in that moment
Feeling is a way of knowing, especially in these flow states
He says that weed is commonly used in Jiu Jitsu, but he hasn’t seen a whole lot of Psychedelic use yet
Ben says that weed helps you drop into the one instrument that you’re trying to play, get into that flow state
Jiu Jitsu is a sport of form, technique, and dance, it’s not about strength
Origins
Jiu Jitsu came from Japan and their Judo
Then it came to Brazil and mixed with the beach vibes and turned into Jiu Jitsu
Then it came to the west and our beaches and developed into what it is today
Kyle mentions the idea of using Paul Stamets ‘microdosing’, psilocybin, lions mane and niacin
In that state we are creating new neurogenesis and neural pathways and being in that state may make us learn differently
Kyle says its an interesting application for performance and new ways of learning
Ben says the goal is to get to a certain level of embodiment, at every point you’re trying to be present in the here and now
Music
After Jiu Jitsu, music took on a whole new color, feel and wave for Ben than it did before
He thought music was a distraction
Once he started to play with flow more, he began to open up to music to live in it
Jiu Jitsu and the flow state really start with the breath
Its like breathing in and accepting life, and the exhale is where it all lets go
Ben Eddy is a Blackbelt at 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. Starting off in the tech scene in San Fransisco, Ben relocated to southern California, where he began his journey into Jiu Jitsu, psychedelics and tapping into the flow state. He currently travels and competes.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview Hamilton Souther, Shaman of Blue Morpho. In this episode, they cover Hamilton’s incredible journey from Western life into becoming a Shaman and the spirit teachings that he experienced along the way.
3 Key Points:
Hamilton Souther, a Shaman of Blue Morpho, shares his experience from living a normal Western life to his journey of his calling, learning and training to become a Shaman. He shares amazing examples of connectedness and spirit while living amongst the natives.
A common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony is that the plants care for you. The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving.
Shamanic training is a long and extremely difficult journey. Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it.
He had some near death experiences and accidents when he was younger
The year after he graduated from college he would go into spontaneous awakenings and altered states of consciousness while totally sober
He would have really intense visionary experiences in those states
Those experiences were so powerful which led him into training and into his Ayahuasca experiences
He felt without purpose and gave himself up to something greater
He turned to shamanism to try to explain the nature of those experiences
Spontaneous Awakening
Kyle mentions that this can happen, that substances are not always required for an ‘awakening’
Hamilton says he wanted to connect to something other than himself
The path took him to Peru, and there was a possibility of meeting people with Ayahuasca
He was being called to it and knew they were real and it led to his ‘apprenticeship’ as a Shaman
It wasn’t by accident that he was there, he had visions that he was supposed to stay there and to learn
Discernment
Coming from a scientific background, he demanded (from the spirit guide) that the process be practical and grounded in reason and logic
He used doubt in a way that he was able to use a lot of proof and truth toward his belief system rather than just being naive and believing these messages too early
He couldn’t envision how to evolve from the vomiting, defecating human on the ground to the composed shaman in the room
Even though he spoke the language, he couldn’t understand what the people were saying when they shared their stories
It seemed like a different world to him
The first few years were learning how to survive in the jungle and learn how to live off of the food
He says it was like reliving his childhood, he had no idea how to walk through the forest like he knew how to walk down a street growing up
The first house he lived in out of college was one he built himself with locals
These experiences were so far from what he grew up in
Toward the end of his apprenticeship, ceremony started to look less impossible and more of something he would dedicate his life to
Spirit
In the indigenous communities, everybody sees spirits, especially at night
And not just in the Ayahuasca culture, its everybody. They thought the jungle was literally alive with spirits
They would say things like “call me if you need me” and they meant it telepathically
Hamilton says “sure enough, they do answer when you call”.
He was in Southern Peru at a pizzeria, and they were in ceremony, and they started to call to him
He had to excuse himself from the table and go outside and sit with himself and went into an Ayahuasca vision and the two men in ceremony said to him in the vision “we just wanted to call to say hi”
So Hamilton, using his doubt, wrote down the place and the time of when this happened, and when he returned from his travels and got back to the community, the two men gave him the coordinates and time where Hamilton was when they called him. It matched perfectly
He realized then and there that they had a very different understanding of the forest and of space time and they were tapped into another kind of knowledge and wisdom
That’s what he was looking for when he came down to the Amazon in the first place
“The mysteries of consciousness are really unexplored and are not studied by science at all” – Hamilton
For Westerners, reality and how it is experienced is just a tiny slice of total consciousness
“When you’re in the amazon, and you’re living in the forest and you’re participating in these visionary experiences, you see the interconnectedness of life.” – Hamilton
“Globally we’ve all agreed that education, literacy and participating in the economy is worth it. I think it’s worth it to really address on a massive scale what were facing collectively. It’s a part of our natural evolution.” – Hamilton
The plants have a very specific role to play, and that they care
That’s a common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony, that the plants care for you
The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving
Especially with the environmental crisis, people who turn to Ayahuasca start to care for the environment
Psychedelic plants have a huge role to play in global life, individual growth and collective change
Blue Morpho
Its a center that Hamilton and the shamans that he works with created
They did a ceremony to talk with the plants to make sure that this was okay to use as an offering to everyone
It started in 2003 and evolved over the years to practice traditional ceremony and now San Pedro
People come from all over the world to visit them
The majority of the people are really coming for the right reasons, with clear intentions for transformation, growth, exploration and personal healing
Over 17 years they have focused on bettering services and professionalism and they believe they have truly succeeded
Ayahuasca is just one aspect of Amazonian plant medicine
There are hundred of plants with medicinal healing properties
The Dieta is a period of time where you go into deep individual isolation and connection to a specific medicinal plant where you create a relationship with a plant
Then you go into the Ayahuasca ceremony and Icaros are sung and you drink the Ayahuasca
Then the Dieta is a time where there are restrictions such as abstinence, no alcohol, strict food diet, no medications, etc. and you go into a meditative state for healing for a time of a few days, to weeks to even months
Shaman Training
Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it
Then, you find a lineage of shamans that are willing to accept you (if you aren’t born into a lineage of shamans)
It’s a journey, and you have to find a group of people open for training
It’s different from any kind of training from the western world, it’s a tremendous journey, and it could take years to decades
Its meant to be a test, and incredibly difficult
When Hamilton trained, he was told that 1 out of 100 make it to be actual shamans
It’s really a job of service, not an exalted one
The reason the training is so incredibly difficult, is so that you can sit with people, who are going through extremely difficult, and transformational experiences and you can be there for them and love and support them unconditionally with the strength gained through the training process
“Its a role of service, you have to be able to deal with any form of suffering that people come to you with.” – Hamilton
Final Thoughts
Stay open minded
He warns about a dystopian world
We need to be the change makers, and there is a lot we can do
We are incredibly powerful, especially when we are united in common goals
Whether they are about human rights or the climate
Hamilton focuses his work on Universal Spiritual Philosophy. He is bilingual in English and Spanish, has a Bachelors degree in Anthropology, and has studied shamanism in California, Cusco, and the Amazon. Hamilton was given the title of Master Shaman by Alberto Torres Davila and Julio Llerena Pinedo after completing an apprenticeship under Alberto and Julio. He guides ceremonies and leads shamanic workshops, in which he shares Universal Spiritual Philosophy.
In this episode, Joe records with Sean McAllister, an attorney who helped advise Decriminalize Denver. During this special, extra episode, Sean helps us understand the language in the recent bill for Mushroom Decriminalization in Denver, CO.
3 Key Points:
Recently, Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization passed on the ballot in Denver, CO.
Psilocybin mushrooms have not been made legal, they have simply been decriminalized. This means that Denver has the lowest law enforcement priority around psilocybin and that no money can be used to criminalize this behavior.
Decriminalization of Psilocybin in Denver is a big step toward changing the stigma around psychedelics. But we need to be careful, decriminalization is just a tiny step in the right direction and we need to be respectful and responsible with this initiative.
On May 8th, the city of Denver, Colorado voted yes on I-301, which decriminalizes the possession and use of Psilocybin-containing mushrooms. The official results will be certified on May 16th. As of May 9th – the unofficial results are – yes (50.6%) and no (49.4%).
I-301 decriminalizes adult (21 years or older) possession and use of Psilocybin mushrooms – making these offenses the lowest priority for law enforcement. This initiative also prohibits law enforcement to spend money and resources enforcing arresting adults with possession of mushrooms.
Sean’s Role in the Mushroom Decriminalization in Denver, CO
Sean is an Attorney with McAllister Garfield Law Firm in Denver
He has done a lot with cannabis law since 2005
He heard about the Mushroom Decriminalization campaign and began working with them
His role started in January to help the team understand what it would look like if the bill passed and his role definitely continues going forward now that it has passed
What the Vote Means
“Decriminalize” means just that
Psilocybin mushrooms have not been made legal, they have simply been decriminalized
“You should never be arrested for putting something in your body that grows naturally in nature.” – Sean
This means that Denver has the lowest law enforcement priority around Psilocybin
It’s not legal, it’s not regulated
This bill means that a person cannot be imprisoned for possession and cultivation for personal possession amounts
The city is not supposed to spend any money to criminalize this behavior
You can grow them to eat them yourself, but you can’t grow them to sell them
This also doesn’t mean that groups can host events and ‘give out’ mushrooms as a gift in return for a donation, this is not good behavior for this initiative
This initiative is simply a first step at looking at mushrooms in a better light and reducing the stigma
For the benefit of this bill passing, we have to be careful about amounts, the smaller the amount of mushrooms the better
There isn’t an amount listed in the bill to distinguish between personal use and intent to sell
The city has to establish a review commission
What this commission is supposed to do is track the public safety impact, use, criminal justice impact, etc
We hope and guess that psilocybin will not impact any of these, just like how marijuana did not impact anything for the worse when it was decriminalized
Once the city sees the results, they won’t have so much stigma about it, and Denver will lead the way for the state and the rest of the nation for sensible drug policy
Political Pushback
The typical response was “we already legalized marijuana, let’s not jump to something else”
Sean thinks this gives Denver an amazing reputation, that it understands therapeutic ability and research and no tolerance for the drug war
“We need a system that addresses public safety concerns but maintains as much personal liberty as possible on these topics” – Sean
Other Initiatives
Sean is a part of Chacruna, based in San Francisco
Oakland is attempting to Decriminalize Nature, which by nature means all naturally occurring substances
They aren’t on a ballot, they are looking to convince city council to agree with it and accept it
California attempted to raise signatures to be on the ballot in the 2018 election but it failed to get on the ballot
Oregon is now collecting signatures to get on the ballot at the state level in 2020
Oregon’s model is for medicalization, Sean expresses concern for a purely medical model
Between big pharma and quiet equity firms, they want to monetize on psychedelics like they did with marijuana, and that’s what we risk with medicalization
Psychedelic Liberty Summit in 2020 in the Bay Area will be to talk about the rights and wrongs around psychedelic initiatives
Final Thoughts
Sean mentions a possible system that revolves around a licensing structure
Similar to how we get a drivers license; we practice, we take tests, etc.
For psychedelics, we would need to learn the effects, harm reduction techniques, take tests to verify our knowledge, etc and receive a license that allows us to use psychedelics freely
If we abuse psychedelics and use them improperly, then we would get our license taken away, suspended, etc.
Overall, after this initiative passing, we have to be careful we don’t ruin this victory with poor behavior
Let’s just do what we’re doing respectfully, responsibly, and to ourselves
Sean T. McAllister is one of the nation’s leading cannabis business attorneys, licensed to practice law in both Colorado and California. Sean’s legal work focuses on the complex interplay between corporate law and state cannabis regulatory structures and federal law. Sean is a recognized leader in the cannabis industry. In 2004, he founded Sensible Colorado, which worked on all of the ballot initiatives in Colorado that culminated in recreational cannabis legalization in 2012.
In this episode, Joe talks with Shane LeMaster, Licensed Addiction Counselor and Certified Mental Performance Consultant. Shane is also involved in Psychotherapy as well as Sport and Performance Psychology and Psychedelic Integration Therapy. In this episode they cover a range of topics such as social work, Ketamine, sensory deprivation, psychedelic icons and the psychedelic culture.
3 Key Points:
Shane has a podcast of his own, and his goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them, to master the potential of our minds.
Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics. Its also a great place to start for therapy.
Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
If we don’t have differences then we won’t have styles to choose from.
Joe and Shane met up recently at a Psychedelic Club meeting about harm reduction in Fort Collins
Shane just got accepted into the PhD program in social work at CSU
He had been pursuing a PhD program in psychology and it wasn’t working out for him so he decided to take the social work route
He works with many people and has developed a strong skill set on the micro level and he wants to start making impact on a macro level with helping people
Social Work
Shane thinks of social work as an integrative approach for every discipline that we find useful, to come to a holistic, greater understanding of an issue
Shane wants to use Ketamine as a ‘medium’ term goal, because it’s legal
But ketamine is not where he is going to stop, he finds there are benefits in many other substances
He would love to work with LSD and Psilocybin
He will continue to offer his services through his business Mind Ops
Shane’s Podcast – Conversations with the Mind
His goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them
It’s important to create dialogue and invite people for conversation with differing opinions
The goal is to create a theory that implements both opinions
Ketamine
Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics
Shane has had a lot of personal and recreational experiences on Ketamine and when he returns to it as a medicine, he is able to attain and sharpen skills for mindfulness
Joe brings up the idea that recreational ketamine could have the ability to bring up past trauma or may re-traumatize someone if not used therapeutically
Ketamine has a lot of risks, but being educated and using the substance correctly can be absolutely beneficial
Shane says we shouldn’t try to avoid trauma, we should accept it and use it for good and let it power us
“Sometimes we don’t even know what were suppressing. We need some assistance to show us what were avoiding in life and I think that psychedelics help with that a lot.” – Shane
Sensory Deprivation
Shane says he’s interested in John Lilly’s work from back in the day and his terminology of being able to meta-program your human brain
Joe says John Lilly was a big part of isolation chambers which led to float tanks
Psychedelic Icons
Joe mentions Robert Anton Wilson, he was good friends with Timothy Leary
“My interest is not in psychedelics themselves, but psychedelics as a means to access higher states of who we are, parts we have forgotten.” – Shane
Psychedelics are just one way to tap into ourselves and discover our ultimate potential
“We should all be questioning, everyday, changing our belief systems” – Shane
“Belief is the death of intelligence” – Robert Anton Wilson
Shane says a lot of people give Leary a bad rap, but Shane appreciates what he has done
Joe mentions ‘smile squared’ – Space, migration, intelligence and life extension
TFYQA – Think for yourself question authority
“Turn on, Tune in, Drop out” – Timothy Leary
Shane says that phrase sticks with him, it called to his rebel phase in youth to grow and do this work in his life
The Psychedelic Culture
Splitting – a rephrase of divide and conquer
Joe says the psychedelic world is very cut throat
“We should take care of each other a bit more in this space” – Joe
Shane says, we need to lift each other up versus look for ways to step over each other
Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
If we don’t have differences then we don’t have styles to choose from
“We can’t become fundamentalists in our own practices, we need to value the differences culturally and from a world view. They are all valuable.” – Shane
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.
He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.
His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.
In this episode, Kyle hosts a conversation with Veronika Gold from the Polaris Insight Center, a center that offers Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy. They compare and contrast Ketamine Psychotherapy methods and Ketamine Infusion.
3 Key Points:
The most studied way of using Ketamine has been infusion, mainly used for treatment resistant depression and PTSD. Veronika used lozenges and intramuscular Ketamine therapy working for Polaris.
When people are healed from depression, there is a lot of anxiety and activation that happens. Infusion clinics don’t offer the therapeutic help that comes with Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy.
The dissociation that happens with Ketamine is a different dissociation that happens with trauma. With trauma, dissociation happens when the nervous system can’t handle the stress in someone’s life, with Ketamine, it allows people who feel dissociated from their trauma, to feel again.
She is involved in the clinical trials for the treatment of PTSD, sponsored by MAPS in San Francisco
Veronika is originally from Czech Republic
She studied at CIIS
She grew up in the Czech Republic in a communist time so she dealt with a lot of trauma
She met Stan Grof at 16 at a Transpersonal conference
She was fascinated with his work and Transpersonal Breathwork became a part of her healing
It lead her to study psychology and become a psychotherapist and study non-ordinary states
Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy
Ketamine therapy has been studied from the late 60’s until today
The most studied way of using Ketamine has been infusion, mainly used for treatment resistant depression and PTSD
In Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy, the therapy is as important as the medicine
There is a biochemical effect of Ketamine
When people are healed from depression, there is a lot of anxiety and activation that happens
Infusion clinics don’t offer the therapeutic help that comes with Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy
Benefits of Ketamine Psychotherapy
The treatment method used at Polaris includes a comfortable room, eye shades, music tailored to the therapy, and an ongoing therapist
They use non-ordinary states of consciousness as a part of the transformation
They use lozenges and IM (Intramuscular)
Only 30% of the ketamine from the lozenges are effective
The lozenges allow for a slow onset of the medicine
With IM, a higher dose can be used because it’s less taxing on the body and more effective
The property of Ketamine is dissociation
Veronika says she prompts people to explain where they are, to share about what comes up for them
“Sometimes there are memories that come up that are connected to their struggle. Sometimes they do full trauma processing. There are times where they go inside and then come out.” – Veronika
Ketamine vs. Classic Psychedelics
They used Ketamine as a means to do the work legally
For the work that is being done underground, the therapists are putting themselves at risk for legality, and it does impact set and setting
But even if other substances were legal, Veronika thinks Ketamine will still be used for certain issues
A moderate to high dose can allow people to have a near death experience or ‘review of their life’
The dissociation that happens with Ketamine is a different dissociation that happens with trauma
With trauma, dissociation happens when the nervous system can’t handle the stress
Opposingly, with Ketamine, it allows people who feel dissociated, to feel again
Veronika mentions a study that says the higher the effects of dissociation from a Ketamine session, the higher the antidepressant effects are.
She has work in somatic studies and organic intelligence
Breathwork
Veronika’s experience with Breathwork helps her understand her patients
The bodily experience that happens in Breathwork also helps her understand the body movement/energetic blockages, etc that happen in Ketamine therapy
The last 30-90 minutes is where the integration starts
Sessions
They do mainly one-on-one session but have done a few pair therapy sessions
Veronika says its easier to do one-on-one because the sessions are short and there is a lot of internal work
The Future of Ketamine
Veronika is excited about people’s curiosity with Ketamine therapy and the effectivity of it
Ketamine is a new and emerging field and we are figuring out who it is useful for and who it is not
Veronika says that non-ordinary states are all beneficial for healing, and not having to use Ketamine (using Breathwork) is still beneficial
“A big part of the healing is having a positive experience and connecting with places that feel good, having positive visions. Its supportive for our nervous system and our ability to heal.” – Veronika
“When we allow the inner healing intelligence to come through, it will take us to where we need to go.” – Veronika
Patients don’t always need to just feel the dark stuff and the trauma, sometimes sitting with the good feelings and remembering what good feels like is a part of the healing too
Kyle and Veronika were both on separate episodes of the Consciousness Podcast with Stuart Preston
Veronika has expertise in the treatment of trauma. Her approach is integrative and informed by Somatic Therapies, contemplative practices, and mindfulness. She also has an interest in educating others about the healing and transformational potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness.
In this episode, Joe talks with Matthew Remski, yoga teacher, consultant and author. In the show they talk about high demand group life and their cultic mechanisms, and the after effects of living in a high demand group setting.
3 Key Points:
Matthew Remski shares his experience of spending most of his 20’s in cults, and his healing journey afterward.
Cults aren’t defined by their content (political, religious, psychedelic), they are defined by their element of control. Another term for a ‘cult’ is a high demand group.
High demand groups can be very appealing from the outside, no one signs up for the rape, torture, or manipulative experiences that happen inside of a cult. And the after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, such as PTSD, inability to form romantic relationships, etc.
Yoga was a safe space of retreat and recuperation after being in cults
He was in a cult for 3 years led by Michael Roach at the Asian Classics Institute
He was in Endeavor Academy for 6 years in Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin
These experiences gave him group dynamic perspective
Yoga gave him somatic autonomy, and allowed him to feel himself again after the cultic nature of the groups
He spent age 22-29 in these groups where we would have built some sort of career, and he didn’t
He became a yoga teacher and opened his own yoga studio as a part of his healing
Cults
People end up doing harm to themselves, or do things that they didn’t sign up for
An organization misrepresents itself, and presents itself as a safe haven for people who may be vulnerable for any reason
High Demand Organization, along with other synonyms, are other words for ‘cult’
‘Self Sealed’ implies that everything that happens within the group is to have the individual think it’s for the ‘good’, a ‘bounded choice’ environment (saying that sexual advances or torture are a part of the development toward enlightenment, for example)
The high demand group rewires a person’s attachment patterns to make them ‘unattached’
The content of the cult doesn’t matter (religious, psychedelic, political, etc), it’s the element of control that is the same amongst true cults
There can be political groups that aren’t cults, but the element of control is what defines it as a cult
Octavio Rettig and Gerry Sandoval
They are perhaps responsible for multiple deaths (maybe not directly but through negligence)
They use 5-MEO-DMT with abuse and malpractice
Cult Impact
The impact from a cult can be cognitive, labor related, relationship/family oriented, etc.
Matthew says the estrangement from his family has taken over a decade to repair
The relationships he had prior, has been unable to restored
His identity was changed for him through social coercion
“The cult takes its best possible part of you for its own agenda” – Matthew
The after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, they can have PTSD, they may not be able to form romantic bonds, they may become estranged from their family, etc.
Recent estimates in the US alone say that there are 8,000 high demand groups
These dynamics can be found in many organizations
Wild Wild Country – When a controversial cult leader builds a Utopian city in the Oregon desert, conflict with the locals escalates into a national scandal
Psychotherapy Cult
Psychotherapy cults look like a Buddhist or yoga cult but with different group practice techniques
They will depend upon group psychotherapy that break down and humiliate members and create fear that looks like love and acceptance
It includes members revealing intense secrets so they become vulnerable
Practice And All Is Coming: Abuse, Cult Dynamics, And Healing In Yoga And Beyond
Matthew’s book is applicable in many different community constellations
His intention is to help foster critical thinking and community health
Joe says that anyone in a group dynamic or especially those leading groups (such as an ayahuasca circle) need to read this book
Matthew has been practicing meditation and yoga since 1996, sitting and moving with teachers from the Tibetan Buddhist, Kripalu, Ashtanga, and Iyengar streams. Along the way he has trained as a yoga therapist and an Ayurvedic consultant, and maintained a private practice in Toronto from 2007 to 2015. From 2008 through 2012, he co-directed Yoga Festival Toronto and Yoga Community Toronto, non-profit activist organizations dedicated to promoting open dialogue and accessibility. During that same period, he studied jyotiśhāstra in a small oral-culture setting at the Vidya Institute in Toronto. Matthew currently facilitates programming for yoga trainings internationally, focusing on yoga philosophy, meditation, Ayurveda, and the social psychology of practice. In all subject areas, he encourages students to explore how yoga practice can resist the psychic and material dominance of neoliberalism, and the quickening pace of environmental destruction.
In this episode, Joe interviews Computational Neuro-Biologist, Dr. Andrew Gallimore, one of the world’s knowledgeable researchers on DMT. In the show they discuss DMT and the possibilities of being in an extended state of DMT, such as accessing higher dimensions and communicating with intelligent entities.
3 Key Points:
This reality that we are in is a lower dimensional slice of a higher dimensional structure. DMT is a technology or tool that allows us access to reach out to these higher dimensions.
Andrew has developed and written about the Intravenous Infusion Model, which allows a timed and steady release of DMT to induce an extended state DMT experience.
Extended state DMT hypothesizes that with enough time spent in the DMT space, the ‘map’ of the space would begin stabilize over time and you could develop a ‘life’ in the DMT space like we do in our waking life.
Since age 15, he was into psychedelic drugs and altered states of consciousness
He was at a friends house and was looking at a book called Alternative London and it had writings on different psychedelics but only a very short segment on DMT
His fascination grew from his yearning to learn more about DMT
His interest turned into academic work, learning chemistry and pharmacology and he is now into learning more about the brain itself
He is currently a Computational Neuro-Biologist
DMT
DMT is a compound found almost everywhere in nature, highly illegal, yet highly interesting
Interaction with entities are common
All frames of reference are gone
Andrew says that the first few times were very intense and he would come back with no way to comprehend or describe it
Then after a few more times he started to see the entities and have a more stable experience with more intent
Andrew describes a very vivid experience of a man in a dark robe where he asked him “show me what you’ve got” and he opened his mouth and Andrew woke up a if he had seen God himself. He describes it as a shattering experience
These beings in the DMT experience, aren’t just pointless beings in a dream, they are powerful and extremely intelligent
We don’t have any way to comprehend the levels of intelligence in this dimensional space, we only are ever able to experience intelligence with our human capacity for what intelligence is
There is a sense that these beings are intelligent because they have been around for billions and billions of years or potentially infinitely
Communicating with Intelligent Entities
He calls his book the ‘textbook of the future’
“We are imprisoned in some kind of work of art” – Terence McKenna
This reality is a construct or artifact of the alien intelligence or the ‘other’
“This reality that we are in is a lower dimensional slice of a higher dimensional structure. DMT is a technology or tool that allows us access to reach out to these higher dimensions” – Andrew
DMT is everywhere
“Nature is drenched in DMT, but it takes a high level of sophisticated intelligence to identify it, isolate it, and discover a means of using it as a tool” – Dennis McKenna
“In order to communicate with these beings, we need to bring the right tools to the table” – Andrew
Target Controlled Intravenous Infusion Model – using the same model for DMT as the anesthesia model
It uses administration of a short acting drug using a mathematical model to control the release
“We are not just passive receivers of information but we are actively constructing our world from moment to moment.” – Andrew
Continuity Hypothesis of Dreaming – it says that dreaming is continuous with our waking life, the brain constructs the world when you’re asleep in the same way that it does when you’re awake
Extended State DMT (DMTx)
Our brains are constantly updating its model of reality, so if you put someone through the DMT space for months at a time, that person’s model of reality would completely shift
This idea has been completely unexplored
The hypothesis is that an extended time in the DMT space would begin to make that space more stable over time, the goal being to live in the DMT space as you would in this reality of waking life
The measurement of DMT in the blood with Ayahuasca is 1/5th the level of DMT in the blood as a breakthrough DMT experience
Andrew hasn’t heard of anyone trying the Intravenous Infusion Model yet
There is this space that exists one quantum away, and it is accessible by everyone (technologically, not necessarily legally)
Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview music artist, East Forest. Influenced by psychedelic Psilocybin sessions, Trevor Oswalt, the mind behind the project, produces soundtracks for psychedelic journeywork sessions.
3 Key Points:
East Forest is a music artist and producer with a mission to create a playground of doors for listeners to open and to explore their inner space.
His recent project, ‘Ram Dass’, captures the words of wisdom of Ram Dass and pairs it with sound, a project with four chapters that will release throughout 2019.
Ayahuasca is connected to the Icaros, but psilocybin doesn’t have a music ritual. His goal with his project, Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner, is to bring ritual to psilocybin journeywork.
East Forest is a 10 years and running music project that unfolded exploring into sharing and medicine circles and developed into a public interface
Its based around introspection and tools for people to use
Between retreats, podcasts and live performance, Trevor is inviting people in to assist with their journeys
Ram Dass
Trevor is working on a 4 part record project with Ram Dass
He had the idea to do a record with spiritual teachers
Ram Dass had a stroke 20 years ago, and he got Aphasia from it
It would take him 15-30 minutes to answer a question, so Trevor would put it to the music and put Ram’s words on the pauses in the music
His wisdom and story would come alive in the songs
The first time Ram Dass did psilocybin was with Timothy Leary and he said it changed his life
Ram Dass talks about the ‘witness consciousness’ a viewpoint of things from the soul
It is a place where you can love everyone and tell your truth and accept your dark thoughts
You can’t get rid of your dark thoughts, but you can learn to live with them
Journeywork Soundtrack
Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner
Its a 5 hour playlist for journeywork that guides you and helps you do the work
He made it live during his own journeywork session over a weekend the previous summer
He says he is influenced by Keith Jarrett, who does long form pianist pieces
Joe says trance in music is under explored
Trevor describes a trip that he had where he took mushrooms and listened to his own (first) album that he made
“It was as if I created this album without knowing what I was creating. My soul had tricked my ego into doing it so I could use it as a tool in that moment to transform into something new.” – Trevor
There is a lot of music, science, and arts that are inspired by psychedelics
He describes its a symbiotic relationship between psychedelics and music
That’s the thing about art, you put it out there and everyone puts their own meaning to it
His first experience with psychedelics was in college with mushrooms
He was outside at a festival and it was a very transcendent, blissful experience
Retreats
He attends retreats where there is either yoga, wilderness hikes or mainly revolved around music
He does a retreat using music at Esalen with his partner, Marisa Radha Weppner
They are doing another retreat in June at Esalen during the summer solstice and he will also be releasing the third chapter of the Ram Dass Record
He went to Vassar college in New York and there were pianos all over the school, he learned how to play simple songs and was shocked of how great it sounded coming to life and that fed on itself and he was hooked
His first album was made in iMac with pro tools and his skills developed from there
Sound quality is critical in journeywork
Joe’s friend has mentioned that it’s hard to make a living as a music creator, she goes by Living Light
Joe also mentions a festival he attended listening to Reed Mathis and the Electric Beethoven
They went on a 20-30 minute talk about how the music is a ritual
Kyle used to lead some hikes, once was with Trevor Hall and it has gotten more common to collaborate these experiences with music
Live Music
During Ayahuasca, the shamans sing the Icaros, and the song is a part of the ritual
No one uses Ayahuasca recreationally, the ceremony has never been detached from the drug
With psilocybin, in the western culture, it’s almost always only been used recreationally
His goal was to create a new musical tradition that would speak to our western years and make sense to us without taking from another religion and putting it to our ritual
East Forest is an American Ambient/Electronic/Contemporary Classical/Indie Pop artist from Portland, Oregon, United States. The project was created by Trevor Oswalt who derived “East Forest” from the German translation of his last name. To date he has released eight full-length albums and six EPs. East Forest’s newest release, “RAM DASS” is a full length album releasing in collaboration with the acclaimed spiritual teacher. Covering topics such as dark thoughts, nature, the soul and so much more, these songs are full of inspiration. The album will release in four “chapters” throughout 2019, culminating in a full length release on August 9, 2019.
In this Bonus episode The Teafaerie and Joe Moore get into lots of great topics. Enjoy! !
The Teafaerie micro-bio(me)
The Teafaerie is a writer, flow arts teacher, ruespieler, toy inventor, app designer, street performer, party promoter, and superhero. erowid.org/columns/teafaerie
In this episode, Joe interviews Jesse Gould, founder of Heroic Hearts Project, a non-profit doing psychedelic work with veterans. They discuss the difficulties veterans face finding healing from their PTSD in the current landscape.
3 Key Points:
Heroic Hearts is a project geared toward raising funds and providing resources for veterans to receive healing through Ayahuasca and other psychedelics.
Our current landscape of social media and government make it extremely difficult to receive donations and get veterans the help that they need. Heroic Hearts is trying to bridge the gap between PTSD and access to healing.
Veterans tend to feel alone in their symptoms from their experiences, so creating community and an integration plan are both really important in the healing process.
He found the healing potential of Ayahuasca after a week long retreat after struggling with severe anxiety after combat deployments with the army
He was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico and grew up in Florida
Jesse graduated with an Economics Degree from Cornell
Heroic Hearts
Heroic Hearts is trying to be the voice of veterans in the psychedelic community
There are very few options through the department of veteran affairs
The organization helps raise money to provide opportunity for veterans to access treatment such as Ayahuasca retreats
PTSD and Addiction affect the veteran community more than the general public
Aligning the veteran voice with the psychedelic cause is a powerful force for change
Integration is so important, both to understand what you’re trying to achieve (beforehand) and stay on that path (afterward)
Jessie says they work very hard to make sure vets are having true healing through their Ayahuasca experiences
PTSD
People have a common misconception around PTSD that there are these constant traumatic outbreaks, and although that can happen, there are so many people living their day to day lives and you’d never know they have PTSD but they still suffer from it
PTSD doesn’t always come from severely traumatic events like war, it can come from other things like childhood abuse or sexual assault
SSRIs numb the pain but don’t help with any actual healing
Donations
It’s really hard to get donations
Heroic Hearts provided financial scholarships so far to about 15 people
They are doing a retreat in May for another 7 veterans
The received a grant from Ubiome to study the effects of Ayahuasca on the gut microbiome
There is a strong link between the stomach biome and mood
They are coming up with do it yourself marketing campaigns to help individuals raise their own money, setting people up for success
In a place where it’s easier to get money, it’s also harder to get money because so many people are creating personal fundraisers for their dog, etc.
There are more and more large organizations helping smaller companies like Heroic Hearts with research
Community
Breathwork can be used as a helpful bridge between patients and their PTSD
Veterans tend to trust veterans more
They tend to feel alone so creating community among vets is really important
Psychedelics and ceremony really help vets transition out of feeling alone
Jesse says he plans on creating local meetups and groups for vets
He tends to send vets on retreats with friends or other vets from the same community so when they return from their retreat they have a built-in community to come back to
Heroic Hearts Project
There is an application for vets
There are many options to donate, all funds raised go right to the vets
“Why is there no government funding going to the biggest breakthrough in PTSD research through the MAPS MDMA therapy? Not one cent of government money has gone to that.” – Jesse
“Why are we having to send veterans to other countries to get the mental health that they deserve?” – Jesse
Jesse founded Heroic Hearts Project after attending an Ayahuasca retreat in Iquitos, Peru on February 2017. During the week long retreat he instantly saw the healing potential of the drink and knew that it could be a powerful tool in healing the mental struggles of his fellow veterans. Jesse was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico and grew up in New Smyrna Beach, FL. In 2009 he graduated from Cornell University with a degree in Economics. After working in investment banking for a short time he enlisted in the Army and became an Airborne Ranger for four years and three combat deployments. Most recently, he worked in finance in Tampa, FL After struggling with severe anxiety for many years, he finally decided to go to an ayahuasca retreat which has had a profoundly positive effect on his anxiety and daily life.’I know what it is like to be at the mercy of uncontrollable elements in your own head. I also know the extreme relief of finally having these elements under control. Ayahuasca provided this. We have the ability to help thousands who are suffering but we let politics and ignorance get in the way. This is unacceptable. I started this foundation because the therapy works, I will risk what I have to ensure my fellow veterans get the treatment they deserve and a new chance at life.’
In this episode Kyle sits down with a close friend in the psychedelic space, Lucas Jackson. They have shared many experiences such as Near Death Experiences, leading breathwork workshops, and other similarities. They cover topics such as the Near Death Experience, Ayahuasca experience, Breathwork tools, and accepting death, finding meaning and integrating these exceptional experiences.
3 Key Points:
Exceptional experiences are not always euphoric and light, they can also be dark and cathartic and make it difficult to transition back into ‘real life’.
Lucas explains his Ayahuasca experience as his darkest and hardest. He felt alone with no help, no one to talk to to help understand it, he felt as if he actually died. But this gave him a realization and acceptance of death.
The key to making it through and putting understanding to the dark experiences is having the right tools, such as a community of understanding people, practices such as breathwork, yoga, meditation and just simply coming back to the breath.
Lucas’ interest in psychedelics started in high school, the books that he read then were influential
He had a near death experience at 19
He came down with a lung issue and was in the hospital for 2 months and in and out of different stages of consciousness
After that experience his interest for psychedelics and breathwork grew
Lucas describes it not totally as a single NDE but more as being so close to death for an extended period of time
He says it wasn’t mystical and great, coming back to ‘real life’ had some dark qualities
Revisiting a Dark Past
Lucas says he wrote stuff down when he was in the hospital with a breathing tube and couldn’t talk and one day he went through it all and it was very dark and cathartic
When he went through and read his past writings, he said that he felt sympathy for the ‘him’ that wrote it
He says it is hard to remember the person he was before his experience and illness
Breathwork
After he dropped out of school, he started up a farm in Vermont and then toward the end of that he started to feel restless and there were synchronicities that led him to breathwork
He heard that Stan Grof was going to be doing a talk at a local bookshop and he met Lenny and Elizabeth Gibson
He ended up doing breathwork training in New York
He explains the experience as more powerful than what he would have imagined
He said he wanted to tell everyone about it after the first breathwork experience
Kyle says its common with any exceptional experience, people want to run and tell the world
Lucas says the sitting was just as powerful as the breathing
It’s not often that you have someone sit at your side for 2-3 hours giving you full attention
Lucas says that his GTT training was supposed to take 2 years and he thought he was going to get through it in 2 years no problem and he is in his 5th year doing the program and he loves the pace
Kyle says that part of the training in breathwork is doing your own work
Lucas says with this kind of work, you don’t get through it and you’re done, It’s a continuous process
Robert Anton Wilson’s ‘maybe’ logic helps Lucas with being okay with not knowing
He had a few experiences where he went through a ‘death’ feeling, and then he would let go and blast through this ‘light’ and then feelings oneness and wholeness
Ayahuasca
Lucas went through the ‘death’ experience and thought it was actually real, he felt complete void and nothingness
That experience haunted him for years
His ayahuasca experience was really about the purge, letting go of absolutely everything
The remoteness of the experience was what he was seeking, being so far removed from everything he had known, everything that made him comfortable
The shaman was known for his potency of the brew
There is no consistency among the dosage
He felt very alone during the experience, he had no help, but it was almost special because it taught him that he is alone always anyway so there was some comfortability with the realization
The shaman didn’t speak English and the messages that he received through the translator didn’t make him feel completely safe about his experience
It took him over 3 years of chewing on the content and the questions before feeling somewhat okay
Lucas’ advice to anyone wanting to do this is ‘take off, make time for this, you’ll need more time than you think’
“I believe that there is a collective pool to tap into, where you’re processing the suffering of all, and once you hit that, it’s an abyss and you have to surrender. It can be so freeing.” – Lucas
Spiritual Emergence
Lucas says there wasn’t any day or event where he felt like he was going to have to go to the hospital or harm anybody, but it’s because he has the correct tools and great community
For him, the first experience was fun and exciting and then you want to do more and then you get into the work and the hard stuff
“What is, waking up?” – Lucas
There’s the Ram Dass idea that the tool will fall away when its usefulness has been exhausted
Lucas says the tool is having a daily practice, and for him its a breathing practice
Grof’s framework was a lifesaver for Lucas
“What are you going to do with the reality you are presented with?” – a quote from The Truman Show movie
“Even if this is all an illusion, why not make this the best illusion, the best dream?” – Lucas
How are we showing up to the world after something so exceptional?
Final Thoughts
What is this world for?
Lucas mentions an Alan Watts video, it says life is like a dance, there is no goal, and then after the dance we sit down
“What is the particular thing that we are trying to achieve? General improvement of all humanity sounds like a good goal. Hopefully psychedelics can be a huge tool in moving towards that.” -Lucas
Lucas says that he isn’t a therapist, but he is available to talk with someone if they may need it. Having an open and welcoming therapist is great, but if they’ve never had an exceptional experience, it’s helpful to talk to someone who has, therapist or not.
About Lucas Jackson
Lucas has spent his life wandering through inner and outer landscapes, collecting experiences, and sharing those experiences with those closest to him. His outer wanderings have led him to working with earth and plants around the world, including starting a biodynamic/permaculture food forest in Central Vermont. Lucas has also spent time working with people who were experiencing extreme states of consciousness while at Soteria-Vermont and while volunteering with The Zendo Project. The galleries of his inner world are made up of psychedelic musings, astrological insights, and various constellations of esoteric traditions. Lucas holds degrees in Environmental Science and Psychology and is currently pursuing an MA in Religious Studies.
Lucas can be reached through his email address at lucasjackson24@gmail.com as well as on Instagram @biodellic. He is available for astrological readings and is happy to meet others interested in discussing the topics covered throughout this episode of the podcast.
In this special interview, Joe and Kyle sit down with Theologian, John B. Cobb Jr., referred to as the Godfather of American Theology. They recorded with John at the conference they all attended in California, on how exceptional experience can help save the world. They cover a range of topics inspired from Alfred Whitehead’s teachings and the promising applications of Whitehead’s thoughts in the area of ecological civilization and environmental ethics pioneered by John Cobb Jr.
3 Key Points:
Process thinking argues that reality consists of processes rather than material objects, and that thinking this way is similar to the teachings of a psychedelic experience. It is hoped for and believed that exceptional experiences can help save the world.
Whitehead’s process philosophy argues that there is urgency in coming to see the world as a web of interrelated processes of which we are integral parts, so that all of our choices and actions have consequences for the world around us.
Certain curriculum, education systems and Universities are not helping us to see the value of our world. A full systems change is needed and hopefully psychedelics, exceptional experiences and process thinking can help with that.
The senses heighten connection, but we shouldn’t rely only senses for our experiences
The label that can we give to the ‘most fundamental relationship’ is any ‘happening’
What’s happening when we listen to music?
We aren’t hearing one tone after another tone, we are hearing the music as a whole piece
Whitehead calls the fundamental relationship of inclusion, a ‘prehension’
How one moment leads into another moment
If the world is made up of prehensions, then in any given moment, what is prehended?
The boundary between conscious and unconscious experience is fuzzy.
Whitehead calls the relatedness to the past, physical prehensions. But we also prehend, potentialities. It is being experienced as potential not as actual.
Whitehead thinks this is present in very elementary matters.
Whitehead says that waves of vibration are a very large part of the world we live in
Whitehead believes that without some type of variation from moment to moment, that nothing really happens
He wrote a lot on relativity and very little about quantum
He wanted to change our language into using words that mean something is ‘happening’ versus using nouns that say that something ‘is’
“If you only have potentiality and too little grounded in actuality, you better be careful. If you don’t have the potentiality, then you live in a deterministic universe” – John
“Does Whitehead relate the potentialities to his ideas about intuition?”
Intuition can be of both pure potentials and about other people
A lot of paranormal experiences are not supernatural
Just because someone has seen something or done something, it doesn’t mean that it’s true. There is plenty of illusion.
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Complex Societies
An important feature of Whitehead is to distinguish complex society
Panexperientialism is ‘the view that if evolution of humans goes all the way down to subatomic particles, then human ‘experience’ by deduction must have originated at the subatomic level, which implies that not just humans but individual cells, individual molecules, individual atoms, and even individual subatomic particles, such as photons or electrons, incorporate a capacity for ‘feeling’ or degree of subjective inferiority.’
There might be in-deterministic qualities in individual entities
From a Whiteheadian point of view, contemporary physics would be almost universally valid if the entire world were made up entirely of physical feelings, feelings of actual occasions, ‘what is’.
“What would be opposed to physical feelings?”
Conceptual feelings, feelings of potentials
He thinks there are feelings of potential in every actual occasion
“The attempt to make standard physics apply to the quantum world are a total failure.” -John
“The attempt to make standard physics apply to the human experience is the task of the Neuroscientists. They think that the subjective experience has a causal role to play in the world.” -John
It’s more committed to metaphysics than it is to empirical study
“Do you think what’s going on in the mind, say neurotransmitters or electrical activity firing, that is creating this reality, or the experience, is having an influence on the neurochemistry?”
John says that the psyche plays a role
Scientists who are busy engineering genetic change, tell us purpose plays no role in genetic change
“What do you mean by no purpose in genetic change?”
Purpose cannot have a causal effect in the Cartesian world
They say ‘I know that my purposes are completely the result of mechanical relations between my neurons’
“Could you elaborate on the definition of actual occasions?”
The psyche is a consistent series of actual occasions
Its what kinds of things are in and of themselves, ‘actual’
It’s in the distinction of things that can be divided up into other entities
An actual occasion cannot be divisible into other actual occasions
Like an atom, it is divisible, but dividing it does not keep it from actually existing
For Whitehead, an actual occasion is the basic unit of actuality
Its an alternative to a ‘substance’ way of viewing
When we look at other living beings, animals with brains and such, we assume they have a psychic life
John thinks that plants have some kind of unified experience
Some people have a feeling about a tree, that it’s not just a bunch of cells interacting
“It’s hard for me to think that a stone is an experiencing entity, I think the molecules though are.” – John
“I’m sure that cells are influenced by the emotions of people” -John
Having a particular conceptuality does not define how things are going to map out
“This world view seems very psychedelic.”
Among quantum physicists, Whitehead’s name is known and appreciated.
It may mean that physics as a whole might adopt an organic model than just mechanistic one
The common sense in this is that our knowledge of each other is not just in visual and auditory clues, but people have been told so long that it is
“What else would it be informed by if not by visual and auditory cues?”
Just by our immediate experience of each other
If you go into a room, there is an immediate climate there. You can tell when you walk into a room full of angry people.
The Great Books program needs revision. It’s only been the great western books. John hopes they have incorporated great books from other parts of the world
There are parts of different educational systems that are better than what we have
“If I had an opportunity to create a school, it would be a school that teaches ecological civilization because a healthy human survival is a goal that ought not to be regarded as an eccentric and marginal one, but regarded as what all we human beings ought to be getting behind collectively, together. And if you have a school for that, the curriculum would be quite varied, but the production and consumption and sharing of food should be a very central part of it.” -John
Capitalism has ignored much of reality
John says creating a curriculum is not his role, his role is deconstruction because he thinks what is going on now is absurd
“Enlightenment is the worst curse of humanity, we have been enlightened into not believing all kinds of things. The disappearance of subject from the world of actuality. If that’s enlightenment, then I don’t want to be enlightened.” – John
Language
John thinks we need a lot of reflection on the language we use
The questions that are the most important are the ones rarely asked
“One of my favorite parts of Whitehead is the reframing of language, our words carry inertia that we are not aware of” – Joe
The reason there are 36 universities for process studies and 0 in the United States, is because in the US, process isn’t as fundamental as substance
Kyle Shares his Near Death Experience
Kyle got in a snowboarding accident, ruptured his spleen and lost about 5 pints of blood
It became mystical when he was in the MRI machine and he was standing on one side of the room with the doctors and in his body at the same time
There was an orb of light, and an external voice or ‘experience’ that said “you’re going home, back to the stars where you came from, this is just a transition, the more you relax into it, the easier it will be.”
Kyle describes it as a blissful experience, but he had a hard time integrating it back into his life.
Whitehead has done a remarkable job to describe process, and exceptional experience and putting a language to it
Joe says that Whitehead’s work has helped put the psychedelic experience into words
“Do you recall the first time you heard something that made you interested in the impact of psychedelics?”
Lenny Gibson was probably one of the first people that opened his eyes to the positive uses
“Today, it would be remarkable if 10% of the world’s population survived without civilization” -John
He is confident that there are good things that come from psychedelics
He says Whitehead has made him understand the changes that might make us behave in responsible ways, so he doesn’t feel the necessity of having a psychedelic experiences
“What kind of changes?”
We have to change from our substance thinking to process thinking
We need to shift from thinking that every individual is self-contained, we are all products of our relationships with each other.
In the Whiteheadian view, any individual is, the many becoming one. To be an individual is being a part of everything.
John B. Cobb, Jr., Ph.D, is a founding co-director of the Center for Process Studies and Process & Faith. He has held many positions, such as Ingraham Professor of Theology at the School of Theology at Claremont, Avery Professor at the Claremont Graduate School, Fullbright Professor at the University of Mainz, Visiting Professor at Vanderbilt, Harvard Divinity, Chicago Divinity Schools. His writings include: Christ in a Pluralistic Age; God and the World; For the Common Good. Co-winner of Grawemeyer Award of Ideas Improving World Order.
In this episode, Joe gets on the mic to chat about some current events in the psychedelic space such as the recent passing of psychedelic icon Ralph Metzner, the Psilocybin decriminalization initiatives in Denver and now Oakland, and psychedelic use in the Military.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic Icon, Ralph Metzner passed away on March 14th, 2019. He had a remarkable career and published a ton of books around psychedelics in his time.
A recent study found that a single dose of Psilocybin can enhance creative thinking and empathy for up to 7 days after use.
Activists are planning an initiative to decriminalize Psilocybin in Oakland. Denver will vote on decriminalization on the May 7th ballot.
Joe mentions conversation he had with a friend of the show
He mentioned that Ayahuasca sometimes has mold on it
Ayahuasca is labor intensive to make, so they make it once and then it grows mold
Then people come and drink the mold infested Aya and it can make a person more sick than they need to be
“If you have the option to be more safe, should you be?”
If we have less harm and less deaths in the drug world over time, in the next 5 or 6 years we are going to see huge benefits with these substances
Staying out of jail, not dying, and by being safer with drugs we have more of a chance to influence policy and make these substances and drug checking more available for the future culture
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode Kyle and Joe sit down and discuss Esketamine, a new FDA approved drug that is a derivative of Ketamine. They invite quotes from professionals who have experience with generic Ketamine and to voice their opinions.
3 Key Points:
Janssen Pharmaceutica has announced an FDA approved derivative of Ketamine, Esketamine, called Spravato.
The new drug is facing critique on its pricing, route of administration as well as functional differences when compared to the traditional, generic Ketamine.
Joe and Kyle invite professionals in the field who have experience with generic Ketamine to voice their opinions, hopes and concerns about Spravato.
Janssen Pharmaceutica, a Johnson & Johnson Subsidiary has created a derivative of Ketamine called Esketamine and has gone through the whole FDA approval process
There has been some concern about a big pharmaceutical company, Janssen coming in and creating a ‘new molecule’ and introducing an FDA approved ‘psychedelic’ to make generic Ketamine obsolete
Pricing
There is going to be price differences based on routes of administration (Intravenous vs lozenges)
$1.59 at 100 milligrams (93% bioavailable when administered IM)
The list price of Esketamine through Janssen will be $590-$885 per treatment session based on the dosage taken which will vary between patients
During the first month of therapy, that would add up to $4720-$6785
After the first month, maintenance therapy could range from $2300-$3500
Joe reads a quote from Scott that says that the new Janssen Esketamine product is overpriced, the research data showed that only 2 out of 5 studies demonstrated effectiveness, and generic Ketamine is much more effective and cheaper than Esketamine
Insurance
Insurance might cover Esketamine
Kyle says he hasn’t heard of too many generic Ketamine sessions being covered by Insurance
“I need not continue the discussion. The case is too clear for elaboration. Yet the trained body of physiologists under the influence of the ideas germane to their successful methodology entirely ignore the whole mass of adverse evidence. We have here a colossal example of anti-empirical dogmatism arising from a successful methodology. Evidence which lies outside the method simply does not count. We are, of course, reminded that the neglect of this evidence arises from the fact that it lies outside the scope of the methodology of the science. That method consists in tracing the persistence of the physical and chemical principles throughout physiological operations.” – quote from Function of Reason
Opinions
Joe invites listeners to ask questions and leave a message of opinions and such (either anonymously or using your name)
Google voice 970-368-3133
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
A common mistake people make is thinking all of the work happens in the session, when really only a portion of the work happens in the session, and the rest happens afterward during integration.
It’s important not to isolate yourself after this work, it’s important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience.
Elizabeth compares journeywork to planting a seed. You can’t grow a whole plant in one session, you simply plant the seed. You determine how it grows by how you water and cultivate it (integrate it), it’s a process that can’t be rushed.
Integration is one of the most important aspects of work with extraordinary experiences
“How do you take material that’s come up and bring it into your everyday life? How do you realize the benefit of the intense work that you’ve done?” – Elizabeth
Elizabeth’s Background
Elizabeth has been facilitating Breathwork for 23 years
She was a part of MDMA trials in the 80’s when it was legal
Elizabeth helped edit the MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy Manual
Integrating the Experience
A common mistake that people make is thinking all of the work is in the session itself, but really that’s only half of the work. The other half of the work happens after leaving the session, the integration.
Integration is about being more present with ourselves in every moment, not just yearning to get back to the state of the session
The long term subtle changes that happen over time are the most important
Stan Grof says that aerobic activity like swimming, running, etc is a way of connecting with energy and feelings that operate at deeper levels
Elizabeth says she likes drawing immediately after an experience to work with it symbolically, and then journaling a day or two later once she is able to verbalize her experience
“Just do it before you think too much about it”
Community Benefits
It’s important not to isolate yourself after this work
“The principle of community is really important. We can’t do this work completely on our own.” – Elizabeth
We are all the descendants of successful tribes
It’s important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience
If there is somatic stuff happening in the body, it is a good idea to do some body work, such as deep tissue massage
On the other side, if we are holding the space for others who went through a session, it’s important for us to make ourselves available for them
Just to talk and to be heard is so important on its own
Email follow up is tricky because a person can pour their heart out or be very vague or not get deep in their email
The email follow up method is also tricky because of difficult response time and interpretation of responses
Facebook groups can be a helpful way of finding the others and creating a community to be able to reach out to understanding individuals
Elizabeth says it’s like the analogy of seeds being planted, you decide how you want it to grow and how you cultivate it
Acting too quickly after an experience isn’t always the best idea, its best to keep it slow
Journeywork Tips
Safe setting
Access to people who will be able to support you afterward
Elizabeth Gibson, M.S., holds a bachelor’s degree in literature and a master’s degree in biology from The University of Tulsa. She has completed Herbert Benson’s Clinical Training in Mind/Body Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Previously she worked as a consultant at Arthur D. Little, Inc., and Radian Corporation in the areas of environmental protection and food research. She is a writer, editor and homemaker with interests in environmental literacy, yoga, music and gardening. Elizabeth is the editor of Stanislav Grof ’s The Ultimate Journey: Consciousness and the Mystery of Death and a contributor to the teaching manual MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for the Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, both published by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. For the past 12 years, she has been responsible for local news for the Town of Pawlet, and from 2008 – 2014 she was the editor of the weekly environment section for the Rutland Herald and Montpelier Times Argus newspapers in Vermont.
In this episode, Joe holds conversation with Dr. Michael Sapiro, Clinical Psychologist out of Boise, Idaho. They cover topics surrounding how meditation and mindfulness intersect with psychedelia as well as psychic ability, altered states and integration.
3 Key Points:
Meditation and psychedelics have a lot of overlap such as ego dissolution and unity.
Dr. Sapiro believes that meditation and mindfulness bring personal awakening in order to create collective transformation.
Both meditation and psychedelics are the most beneficial when they are integrated into our waking life and when we use our experiences to help others and our planet.
It’s a dissolving type of experience, Its a non-dualistic style of tradition
The non-dual tradition helps one just be “whole and unbroken” and focus on the present and now
He does the human work in the Buddhism Dharma style, and the spiritual work with the restful piece of being in the now, the focus being integration
Vision
His vision has been on enhancing personal awakening in order to create collective transformation
He wants to help communities and states and nations to transform via individual awakening
He has worked with law enforcement agents, military vets, community members, a variety of people at different levels all the way from grounding to stability to thriving
He always ends each Sangha with saying ‘take this work and apply it to your neighbors’
A Sangha is a buddhist community of monks/individuals in support of each other
“People have such a deep connection to nature when you come out of the psychedelic experience. You start taking care of the environment differently than before went you went in.” – Michael
“We now have data on greater environmental concern and stewardship after the psychedelic experience.” – Joe
People who are consciously interacting with things outside of themselves have a greater care for those things. “If I am hurting the world I am hurting myself.” – Michael
“Hopefully one of the bigger things that come out of the psychedelic movement are greater levels of environmentalism and global stewardship” – Joe
The psychedelic movement helps us see systems that are made up are a part of our tangible reality and our responsibility to take care of the people in the systems
We can use psychedelics and meditation, and integration from these experiences, to see how we can operate in these systems and help people find resources in these systems
One of his colleagues has reached over 200,000 people with their work since 2011
His goal isn’t to be the lead, but the support of leaders, especially women because he feels the need for a balance and the need for more female leaders
Michael says he loves surrounding himself around ‘world-changers’ and loves doing anything to be around them and learn from them
Boise, Idaho
Michael says its surprisingly conscious state
Its very community oriented
There are 6-7 Buddhist Sanghas, groups of dedicated folks to their practice
There is a lot of nature and nature is Dharma, it is the teacher
Psychic Ability and Altered States
It’s very normal for humans to have psychic experiences
All of us have access to these states, we just have to tap into them
Michael encourages people to accept and cultivate these experiences
It may be better to accept these experiences than to deny them
There is a difference between energetic flow and psychosis
Crazy Wise is a documentary that touches on spiritual emergence issues
The Overlap of Psychedelic States and Meditation
The Institute of Noetic Sciences had a program called The Future of Meditation Research
They found in the research that they were only looking at reducing anxiety and depression, the clinical applications
But they found that more than half of the people experienced psychic phenomenon, mystical experiences, terrifying experiences, the things that overlap/correlate with psychedelic experiences
Both meditative and psychedelic experiences point to ego dissolution and unity at the same time
Ego and anxiety both have wisdom in them, we don’t want to lose them completely, but learn how to balance them and use them wisely
“We need to be mindful of how we integrate what we learn in the psychedelic/meditative state into our waking life” – Michael
“How can meditation and psychedelics lend themselves to being the best version of ourselves while committing to others well being? That is what I am most passionate about.” – Michael
Michael Sapiro, PsyD is a clinical psychologist, Dharma teacher, meditation researcher, and former Buddhist monk. He is on faculty at Esalen Institute and is a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where he engages in research on meditation, transformation, and consciousness. He completed his postdoctoral fellowship in advanced psychology at the Boise VA Medical Center where he specialized in rural health, PTSD, and combat trauma. Dr. Sapiro teaches nationally on the art and science of transformation, expanded human capabilities, self-care, and meditation for personal and community growth. He is the founding teacher of Maitri Sangha Boise, an integrated Buddhist community, and director of Maitri House Yoga, LLC, serving the community through integrating meditation practices, psychology, noetic sciences, and social justice. He can be found at maitrihouseyoga.com. He and his wife, Chef Sararak, own and operate Lime and a Coconut: The Art of Thai Cuisine, and together lead international meditation and culinary retreats to Thailand.
In this episode Joe interviews, Richie Ogulnick, a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast. During the show they discuss Ibogaine and Addiction-Interruption Therapy.
3 Key Points:
Ibogaine is a compound found in the Tabernanthe Iboga plant that has been used to treat opioid and other addictions.
Ibogaine has shown to have the power to reset the biochemistry of a person to a non-addictive state, and reduce/eliminate the agonizing symptoms of withdrawal, allowing a person to heal from an addiction.
The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse.
In 1989 he was Introduced to Ibogaine while visiting family and friends in New York
Its an alkaloid extracted from a West African shrub
He was ready to fall in love with doing something with purpose
He came across an article about a corporation called NDA created by Howard Lotsof
When Howard (a heroine addict) was 19 years old, a chemist gave him a dose of Ibogaine
A few days later, he realized he “wasn’t afraid” and then he realized he wasn’t having opioid withdrawals
In “Needle Park”, a park in New York, heroin addicts come there for free needles
Richie’s dream was to dose all the addicts with Ibogaine, and that only a quarter of them would show up to Needle Park because they were not addicted anymore
He brought 13 grams of Ibogaine back from Africa with him
He received a chapter from a book (Healing Journey) called Ibogaine: Fantasy and Reality by Claudio Naranjo
People were coming from all over the world to receive Ibogaine treatments
It was 15 years where he conducted over 750 psycho-spiritual and addiction-interception sessions underground
Upon training people, those people would then go and open their own treatment centers in Mexico, abroad, etc.
What is Iboga
Tabernanthe Iboga is the plant
Ibogaine Hydrochloride is the best product to use to interrupt addiction and symptoms of withdrawal from an addiction
Ibogaine is safe as long as someone has had an EKG that has been looked at very closely for any red flags
Other than cardiac risk and previous suicidality, schizophrenia, psychotic breaks there aren’t many more threats to being treated with Ibogaine
The Miracle Compound
“There is a miracle compound in ibogaine. There is nothing I have come across on the planet that can reset the biochemistry to a pre-addictive state, that can bring a person to make a choice without the agony of the symptoms of withdrawal.” – Richie
There is a 36 hour window where a person has a life review, what brought them to the addictive process in the first place, the person’s willingness and maturity
It creates a symbiotic relationship for a person to explore themselves with insight
Relapse is possible if they don’t work on the reason they became addicted in the first place
It’s the witness component that Ibogaine delivers that helps people process through their addiction
Ibogaine as a molecule has a really pharmacologically complex, alien like structure
Relapse
Justin Hoffman, a DJ in Las Vegas runs Holistic House, a facility where people get to relax and get out of their previous context for a week or two after treatment
If a family wanted to help out their family member who is addicted to heroine, Richie says that he asks the family about relocation because it’s a big part of reducing relapse
He also says that finding a proper therapist to help afterward is huge too
The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse
Big Pharma’s Impact
Joe says how he got a message from Dana Biel, talking about how the harm reduction movement has been manipulated by the ‘Big Pharma’ industry, especially suboxone
Richie says that drugs like suboxone are prescribed to be used everyday for the rest of someone’s life, and Ibogaine is a “one-time-only” style drug that doesn’t require alot of money to heal people
Ibogaine is not profitable so its not attractive to Big Pharma
“Ibogaine will never hit the streets like LSD did. It’s not a recreational experience, it’s a long, daunting 3 stage process.” – Richie
Use Cases
He knows of a story where these two ladies took Ibogaine daily for their Parkinson’s, and as soon as they stopped taking Ibogaine, they got their symptoms back
He knows of another lady who had been walking with a cane and upon taking Ibogaine she was walking a mile around her neighborhood without her cane
Final Thoughts
Joe asks if Richie thinks we are over harvesting Iboga
There is the Wakanga tree that contains a small amount of Ibogaine, so he thinks we are okay
Ibogaine is an important subject because a lot of people are dying from opiates
Ibogaine is available in Portugal but it hasn’t had much activity
It can be used for therapeutic use as well as addiction-interruption
Richie Ogulnick is a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast Over the course of fifteen and a half years, he conducted about 750 sessions, including addiction-interruption treatments. He spent the next several years referring close to 1,000 more people to other ibogaine providers. During that time, he also trained doctors and ex-addicts who opened ibogaine centers throughout the world. Richie feels a pull to focus again on the more therapeutic and psycho-spiritual treatments where he is able to offer his expertise in ibogaine treatment along with his knowledge of reintegration with individuals who are looking to deepen and enrich their life experience.
In this Episode, Joe interviews Brad Burge, Director of Strategic Communications at MAPS. In this episode they discuss the Phase 3 Trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy, contradictions and Expanded Access.
3 Key Points:
MAPS is about to run Phase 3 Trials of MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
If MDMA passes this third phase, it will still be tricky to get insurance involved. But the cost of one series of MDMA Therapy is much cheaper than a lifetime of typical pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD.
The only reason for-profit companies haven’t gotten involved before was because there wasn’t a promise on their investment. Finally, for-profit companies (like Compass Pathways) are interested in advancing these medicines (Psilocybin and MDMA).
After phase 3 trials, if all goes well, it would mean that MDMA would be the drug to be used (only) alongside Psychotherapy
MAPS is training therapists, counselors and social workers
One way to get more people educated who are interested in this would be taking therapy interns in and having them gain credits for interning and learning alongside trained therapists
Access
Expanded Access is known as ‘compassionate use’, a program by the FDA that allows people to receive a treatment that is still in trials
In order to administer the therapy you are required to get a DEA schedule 1 license
“If there’s one thing that changes public perspective on psychedelic therapy, its individual stories of people who have been healed, transformed by or positively or even negatively affected by them in some way” – Brad
They have published many studies of the trials
The most recent was the Boulder study, 76% of people didn’t have PTSD a year after MDMA assisted therapy
Insurance won’t cover expanded access, it will have to pass Phase 3 trials until insurance can be used in MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
The MDMA is a very small cost (fraction) of the total cost, it’s the hours on hours of psychotherapy that cost so much
But the cost of one MDMA Therapy Session process is much cheaper than a lifetime of pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD
Argument
Joe says he hears this strange argument that people say “giving soldiers MDMA just makes war easier”
Brad says it’s not about putting these people back into war, it’s about healing the retired veterans to help them adapt back into their everyday life
“MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy is going to make them a better lover not a better fighter” – Brad
“If there’s one commonality in psychedelic experiences, its that things are connected.” – Brad
Compass Pathways
Joe mentions that people are scared to see a business come in that’s acting like a normal pharmaceutical company
MAPS is not tied at all with Compass Pathways
Out of the top two things Americans are mad about, at least one of them is the Pharmaceutical Industry
Finally, for-profit companies are interested in advancing these medicines (MDMA)
The only reason for-profit companies haven’t gotten involved before was because there wasn’t a promise on their investment
Capitalism has a tendency to put profit first
“Money can be used for good as well as evil” – Brad
MAPS has raised over 70 billion dollars all from donations
Compass owns its own safety data
Part of the goal of a patent is to protect the investment
Zendo Project
MAPS Psychedelic Harm Reduction and Peer Support resource
Brad Burge is Director of Strategic Communications at the non-profit Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Brad earned his B.A. in Communication and Psychology from Stanford University in 2005 and his M.A. in Communication from the University of California, San Diego in 2009. He began working with MAPS in 2009, where he engages daily with journalists and media producers around the world to enhance public knowledge about psychedelic research, while also helping develop and evolve MAPS’ brand and outreach strategy. Brad is passionate about finding healthier, more effective, and more compassionate ways for humans to work with the pharmaceutical and digital communications technologies of the 21st century. When he’s not plugged in, you’ll find him in the mountains, carrying a backpack, somewhere down a long trail.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle sit down and engage in conversation together, covering topics such as Kyle’s capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork, current events, upcoming plans and the hurdles as a Psychedelic education and information company in a space of both ethical and unethical findings.
3 Key Points
Kyle will be soon finishing his capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork.
The project is on the clinical application of Breathwork Therapy. The goal will be to use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that can be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy.
Joe and Kyle find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world. They are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense. It’s a difficult time, where a lot of unethical stuff is happening around psychedelics, and Joe and Kyle feel responsible for the safety of the community.
Kyle’s been doing an internship a few days a week and has been doing undergraduate student counselling
He’s been working on his capstone project that has consumed a ton of his time and energy
He wants to thank Elizabeth Gibson and Alan Davis who have been reviewing his capstone project for him
Breathwork Therapy Capstone
Writing the capstone in the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program means it needed to have clinical applications
Kyle went to the MDMA Training in 2016, and he talked to Michael Mithoefer, who told him that if he wants to get involved, to figure out something that can be an adjunct to psychedelic therapy
Kyle thought that he could use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that could then be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy
Styles of Breathing
A deep, slow belly breath can be very activating to the parasympathetic nervous system that calms the body down
A fast, intense breath can be more active and can bring out traumas
The Phases
Phase 1: Grounding and Emotional Regulation (slow, deep breath, the therapeutic alliance)
They screen for people that have had a traumatic experience, spiritual emergence or psychosis in the last 6 months so they know where to start with a patient
They use a capscore (a test that looks at the severity of someone’s PTSD) to determine where to start in therapy
Joe mentions that it would be beneficial to see what level of capscore a patient responds positively or negatively to a Breathwork session
Phase 2: Using Breathwork in a somatic processing phase
Stage 1: Somatic experiencing (helping people breathe into the sensations in the body)
The body has a ‘secret language’, of how our body holds onto trauma
Turning inward and being more in touch with inner sensations (tightness, heat, etc)
Stage 2: A more activating of “blockages” by intensifying or speeding up the breath
Phase 3: Outside of the clinical scope, placing someone in a full group, 3 hour Breathwork that might bring up collective traumas or spiritual experiences
The goal would be to get people through therapy to get them to the larger group process, create community and form social connections
It needs to start with the clinical space, one-on-one to generate trust. Once they have that trust and confidence, they can go out and explore the more transpersonal and spiritual aspect of themselves
Bandwidth in Communication
We have modems, cable, fiber optics, 3g, 4g, 5g cell networks, etc.
Video communication, phone conversation is great, but it’s 2D
When its in person, depth of field kicks in, you’re able to see body language and intonation
Living in a tribe of 150 people and creating community, we’d be using our full bandwidth, bringing the human organism back to its full capacity
“Therapists get taught clinical practices, but they aren’t taught about theory and practice of trauma” – Joe
Joe says its not a bad thing, but there are risks by not having an in person facilitator
“We find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world, our relationship to coming out about that stuff is tricky. Yes, we are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense.” – Joe
Joe says he feels responsibility for safety in the community
Kyle says the psychedelic community sometimes feels like the wild west due to the lack of education. “When unethical stuff arises, what is our responsibility?” – Kyle
“We are trying to understand our future, and not put ourselves in a bad place, all while keeping you all safe and continuing to serve the community” – Joe
Joe and Kyle will be guiding 2 Breathwork workshops
They are excited to connect and meet people
Kyle and Joe will be going to another conference in March
The title of the conference is “Can Exceptional Experiences Save Humans, from Ecological Crisis”
“If were going to survive on earth, we’ve got to be a little more global. We are all linked to this spaceship that we are traveling through space on, and there are limited resources on this thing. We are answering a lot of these questions through psychedelics” – Joe
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe host Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown, Authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art. The book showcases the work and inspiration of female artists such as Josephine Wall, Allison Grey, Amanda Sage, Martina Hoffman, Carolyn Mary Kleefeld and many others.
3 Key Points:
Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown are co-authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art, which includes discussions with 18 female artists.
The book and the episode are an exploration of the role that dreaming, psychedelic experiences, and mystical visions play in visionary art.
There is a strong need for a balancing of masculine and feminine energies. Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed.
David’s background is in Psychobiology, the interface between psychology and biology
He spent 10-15 years working in neuroscience and research labs
His interest in Neuroscience came from his experience as a teenager, experimenting with psychedelics
He wrote his first book, The Science of Psychedelics, about 10 years ago
David mentions that the psychedelic renaissance has allowed him to write openly about psychedelic topics that he’s been preparing his whole life researching for
About Rebecca
aka Molly Moon Sparkles
She has a huge creative drive
She is currently studying psychology and is playing in the art program
She is fascinated by entheogens, plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
She is a painter and is working on the Molly Moon Magick Series that focuses on the divine feminine
David was so fascinated with the visions he would see on psychedelics and wished that he had the talent to portray it through artwork, and then he began to see artists bring these visions to life
He also saw a lot of gender inequality, that there were more men than women in the visionary art space
It urged him to highlight the under recognized women in visionary art
Rebecca was experimenting with other realms with plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
She says her consciousness was so drastically different from any other time in her life, and she started painting her psychedelic experiences
This led her to begin building community with other artists who shared the same ‘vision’ as her
She said that the psychedelic experience has so much feminine nature to it that wasn’t being voiced
“We are going through a serious ecological crisis right now and the teachings behind the psychedelic experience is to heal the collective and help climate change” – Rebecca
There is an uprising of feminism with the “Me Too” movement, women in congress, women’s marches
Our species has been so dominated by men and we need the nurturing and caring aspects of the feminine perspective
Surprising Aspects of the Women
The most surprising aspect is how much in common the women had
David says it was beautiful how well each artist was connected to each other through their stories
Laura Holden is completely self taught
There were two women from the book that had never touched a psychedelic substance
They were inspired through dreams and daydreams
The psychedelic experience not only inspires the artwork, but it creates a new way of viewing artwork
Kyle mentions that he always wished he could record his dreams
Joe says he has been seeing research around capturing visual or imagined imagery
Discovering the Artists
David discovered most of the artists that he had not previously known through the community Rebecca had been a part of as visionary artists
COSM and Entheon
August 3rd, Rebecca and David are giving a presentation as COSM in New York
Entheon, the Sanctuary for Visual art may be open by them
Entheon will have workshops, painting classes, rooms to stay in, full moon ceremonies, etc.
It will be an art sanctuary, a church with a spiritual and psychedelic essence
Visionary art is getting into museums and becoming a recognized art form
The Desperate Need for Balance
Terrence McKenna told David that early on in human civilization, men didn’t understand the role that sex had in creating babies
The power of reproduction was within women and sex was something else
Once men began thinking that they were responsible for the generation of life, they starting saying its “my baby” its “my wife” instead of ‘our’ baby or the community’s baby. It kept developing into “my child” into “my country”, “MY”.
Then people started using less psychedelics and started consuming more alcohol and now everything is an over exaggerated male dominance
“Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed. It could be balanced and harmonized with more feminine energy.” – David
There is a crucial imbalance from male and female in history alone
But more than an imbalance between just males and females, it’s about an imbalance of masculine and feminine energies
Each of us, male and females have both a masculine and feminine energy
We can see the masculine and feminine imbalance in the world and our planet right now. We don’t need to shift to a goddess worshiping planet, but we just need to be back in balance and bring more feminine energy of nurturing and compassion and caring and healing
Penny (an artist highlighted in the book) mentions about Sandos giving LSD to researchers who gave it to artists
Getting Involved
“If you want to get involved in painting, dancing, making jewelry, clothing, gardening, don’t wait. Do it. If you are true to yourself and your own inner visions, you will succeed” – Rebecca
One thing all artists have in common is fear and insecurity, so you can’t let it hinder you from beginning
Final Thoughts
Artists like Android Jones are doing visionary artwork in virtual reality mediums
David thinks visionary artwork will become only even more interactive and immersive spaces
We need to find a more yin-yang balance between masculine and feminine
Rebecca Ann Hill (AKA Molly Moon Sparkle), is a visual artist with a wide range of experience in different creative mediums. She is the co-author and illustrator of “Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams & Mystic Visions”, as well as “Women of Visionary Art.” Primarily a painter, she is creating a new series entitled “Molly Moon Magick,” and her other projects include dancing with “Gold Town Burlesque,” writing a blog -“Go Ask Molly”- and working on a new book about her spiritual awakening.
About David
David Jay Brown is the author of Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics, and The New Science of Psychedelics: At the Nexus of Culture, Consciousness, and Spirituality. He is also the coauthor of five other bestselling volumes of interviews with leading-edge thinkers, Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge, Conversations on the Edge of the Apocalypse, Mavericks of Medicine, Frontiers of Psychedelic Consciousness, and of Women of Visionary Art. Additionally, Brown is the author of two science fiction novels,Brainchild and Virus, and he is the coauthor of the health science book Detox with Oral Chelation. Brown holds a master’s degree in psychobiology from New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in two of British biologist Rupert Sheldrake’s books on unexplained phenomena in science: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home and The Sense of Being Stared At. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including Wired, Discover, and Scientific American, and he was the Senior Editor of the special edition, themed MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) Bulletins from 2007 to 2012. In 2011, 2012, and 2013 Brown was voted “Best Writer” in the annual Good Times and Santa Cruz Weekly’s “Best of Santa Cruz” polls, and his news stories have been picked up by The Huffington Post and CBS News.
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