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Dr. Ryan Westrum – The Psychedelics Integration Handbook

In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Ryan Westrum, Psychedelic Integration Therapist. In the show, they talk about topics and teachings from Ryan’s book, The Psychedelic Integration Handbook.

3 Key Points:

  1. The Psychedelics Integration Handbook is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live.
  2. There is an important part in distinguishing integration from aftercare. Aftercare can look as simple as taking care of your body, getting good rest, eating well. You can’t integrate without taking care of yourself first.

  3. One of the pillars of integration is PREP (purpose, reflecting on experiences, expectations, potential).

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Show Notes

About Ryan

  • Ryan is a Clinical Psychologist in the Minneapolis area
  • He has been a licensed Marriage Therapist for 15 years
  • He works in the realms of psychedelics and sexuality
  • He has a 14 year old daughter, and likes to take a psychedelic approach to parenting
    • He holds healing circles with mothers and fathers and their child(ren)
    • Psycho-ed and harm reduction are his focus with families
    • This is a group of people that need an honest conversation
  • At a young age he was into Stan Grof and Jungian literature and psychedelic experiences
  • His graduate program was focused on non-ordinary states of consciousness
  • Kyle mentions a good book, The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise
  • “As a western civilization, we have really minimized the opportunity for growth, the expansion of consciousness, and to be ourselves.” – Ryan
    • These experiences are powerful, and to come back to a culture that does not support it, is hard
  • The goal is being conscious with your confidence of why you’re doing this work

About the Book

  • The Psychedelics Integration Handbook is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live
  • This is not a book with black and white answers but an offering to individual people who want to explore all the possibilities for being alive and seeking wholeness.
  • The Psychedelics Integration Handbook contains historical perspective, maps of consciousness, approaches for integrating body-mind-spirit, and practical suggestions for all stages of psychedelic exploration.

The Psychedelics Integration Handbook

  • The book was written for people to make it their own
  • Its broken into 3 parts, educational, a ‘your turn’ section, and then integration
  • Its about having a compartment, and then playing within the compartment
  • Everyone has unique nuances, integration looks different to everyone
    • Integration practices don’t matter if they don’t personally mean something to you

Integration

  • The question to help determine the integration needs is, “What does the individual lead with?”
    • It’s the mind, body, emotion in the spirit altogether
    • Immediately after a psychedelic experience, some want to talk about it, others embody it
    • Do they lead with thoughts or emotions?
  • There is a part in the book: The difference between integration and aftercare
    • How do we distinguish between self care and integration?
    • Is my body rested? Am I comfortable? Are my needs taken care of?
    • Aftercare is grounding
    • “If you’re not taking care of your body, you won’t be able to integrate” – Ryan
    • It might not be as complex as it needs to be, its as simple as taking care of yourself
    • An important part of aftercare, is asking yourself when it is okay to practice again
  • Ryan was mentored by James Fadiman, and he believed in taking big doses every 6 months
  • One of the pillars is PREP (purpose, reflecting on experiences, expectations, potential)
  • Ryan says he is not the gatekeeper
  • Controlling willpower is a huge step in integration
    • Some people want to just take psychedelics, but not write, or do yoga, or do any other mindful activity

Safety

  • Dose, set and setting are the obvious
    • It’s like a goldrush, some just want to jump in blindly
    • You have to understand what safety means to you
  • Ryan thinks we aren’t talking enough about the recreational use
    • He is excited about all of the conversation on therapeutic use, but he thinks we are ignoring recreational use
    • He wants to see ritual and reverence in the recreational community
  • Preparation is so important
  • Kyle says that a lot of times after an experience he has all of these ideas for how to live his life, and he tries to practice them, but sometimes he finds himself slipping into old patterns of behavior
    • Ryan says he believes there is still movement and progress, be gentle with yourself

Links

Healing Souls LLC

Psychedelic Integration

About Ryan

Dr. Ryan Westrum, PhD, LMFT, is an internationally recognized psychedelic integration expert. For more than 15 years, his primary focus has been working with individuals and groups facilitating experiential therapy and integrating psychedelic journeys into healing and personal transformation. Ryan speaks on a myriad of topics and leads experiential groups, like dreamwork integration therapy and psychedelic integration groups.

 

 

 

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Jessica DiRuzza – Understanding the Psychedelic Experience with Astrology

In this episode, Kyle interviews Jessica DiRuzza, Psychotherapist, Astrologer and Teacher. In the show they talk about how astrology can be used as a tool and framework for navigating and understanding psychedelic experiences.

3 Key Points:

  1. Astrology can be used as an integrative tool for psychedelic and other exceptional experiences.
  2. The planets are emitting some type of force that are letting us behave a certain way. Astrology is the one thing we have agreed upon across millennia and era.

  3. A Saturn Return transit can be a difficult but transformative time in one’s life. This transit happens around age 28-31. During this time, we face crises in our life as we take on greater responsibility. It can feel like death and a rebirth. It can correlate to Grof’s Perinatal Birth Matrix II (“No Exit” and “Cosmic Engulfment”). 

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Show Notes

About Jessica

  • She is a Psychotherapist
  • She teaches and practices Astrology
  • She uses Astrology to help put meaning and understanding to what happens in visionary states
  • She received her bachelors at CIIS and studied and taught with Stan Grof and Richard Tarnes in the Philosophy, Cosmology and Consciousness Program
  • Since the 70’s, Stan Grof was following his transits and all the transits of his clients
    • Richard Tarnas and Stan Grof studied astrology as a diagnostic tool for those who would do psychedelics
    • They studied transit astrology
    • By looking at these transits, what they found were archetypal similarities
    • “Our solar system is an extension of our ecosystem here on earth.” – Jessica
  • “For millennia, the one thing that human beings have agreed upon across cultures and eras, are the meaning of the planets” – Jessica
  • Astrology is the original science

Free Will vs. Determinism

  • The planets are emitting some type of force that are letting us behave a certain way
  • They are reflective, what is happening in the sky is indicative of what’s happening here
  • Astrology is like a clock, a clock does not make it be a certain time, it just helps us tell the time

Interest in Astrology

  • Psychedelics brought Jessica to Astrology
  • Jessica went to her first Burning Man at 20 years old
    • She received an astrology reading there and said it broke her open
  • She went to CA to see the reader that gave her the initial reading
    • She did a high dose LSD session
    • She re-lived her birth experience, and gave birth to her new self
  • The person who gave her the reading was teaching with Stan Grof and Richard Tarnas at CIIS
  • She dropped out of college and moved to attend CIIS
    • She was in a Uranus conjunct Ascendant transit
  • Through these experiences she uprooted her entire life

Astrology Lingo

  • Sun represents our sense of self, our identity in the world, egoic consciousness
  • Moon represents our relational matrix, our early childhood experiences, our emotions and experiences, and a deep sense of belonging
  • Rising represents who we are from moment to moment, how we initially meet existence
  • Zodiac means belt of life
  • Each aspect carries a different quality
    • Conjunct means new moon, representing a new beginning
    • A full moon represents when the sun is opposite than the moon, a blossoming or fruition. 
  • Astrology is a language, the language of the stars
    • There are so many ways to speak this language, and so many schools of thought
    • What really matters is the cosmology that goes behind the description
  • “Both astrology and psychedelics are a tools for self reflection, that hopefully we are using to become more kind and more caring” – Jessica
  • “Astrology provides a world view or a cosmology to hold what happens in those visionary states, it’s a grounding place to integrate and make meaning of what’s happening” – Jessica

Saturn Return

  • Saturn return happens from age 28-31
  • During our Saturn Return, we face crises in our life and take on greater responsibility
  • It can feel like a death, but also like a birth
    • “The greater the death, the greater the rebirth” – Jessica
  • The 4 bpms correspond to the four outer planets
  • It’s not just in entheogenic spaces that this is applicable
  • “Working with the resistance consciously, actually helps us move into what the divine or the universe wants us to step into our life, karmically, what we are here to do” – Jessica

Astrology and Psychedelics

  • Kyle asks about using astrology to pick a time of when to do psychedelics
    • Jessica responds saying that if you have a strong calling to do so for healing and balance, and you have all the components for proper integration, then it’s a good time
    • Then, astrology can be used to help find themes and help dissect the experience
  • Your Saturn transits contain a difference component in each person
    • The sense of responsibility grows in you
    • “My deepest calling in this life is to bring Astrology and Psychology together in one unified field” – Jessica

Final Thoughts

  • Jessica is so proud of the honest integrity that people are bringing to this work
  • She send best wishes in the great reckoning, and the great becoming

Links

Website

About Jessica

Jessica is a licensed psychotherapist, astrologer, and teacher. Her life is guided by a passion for engaging with people, understanding relationships, and staying connected to the larger world around us. This passion and curiosity led her into the healing profession as a counselor in 2007. For over a decade she has worked collaboratively with individuals, couples, and groups on their transformative journeys. Helping people on their path of exploration and healing is the privilege of a lifetime. Jessica received her Master’s in Counseling Psychology with an emphasis in Depth Psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute. She completed her undergraduate degree at California Institute of Integral Studies, where she studied and taught archetypal astrology and transpersonal psychology. Her greatest joy is working in sacred and revolutionary ways with people in psychotherapy, teaching, and astrological consultations. She also shares her work through podcasts and writing on her site.

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Rob Heffernan – Psychedelic Liberty Summit: Religion and Plant Medicines

In this episode, Kyle sits down with Rob Heffernan, an independent researcher and activist. In the show, they talk about churches, Ayahuasca, accessibility and the Psychedelic Liberty Summit by the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. Rob is also part of Chacruna’s Council for the Protection of Sacred Plants. 

The Council for the Protection of Sacred plants is “an initiative of the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines that endeavors to advocate for the legality of sacred plant medicines among indigenous peoples and non-indigenous communities, encourage legal harm reduction practices that protect those who use them, educate about conservation of plant species, document relevant legal and social issues, and consult on legal cases including possible litigation. ” 

3 Key Points:

  1. The Psychedelic Liberty Summit is a gathering on legal, cultural, and political issues around the emerging psychedelic renaissance.
  2. Accessibility is not just about whether or not people can afford psychedelic therapy, people cant even afford regular therapy, the whole healthcare model is an issue.
  3. A lot of churches get a bad name, but really most churches are built around community. Psychedelics can help revitalize churches.

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Show Notes

 

About Rob

  • Rob is a member of the Chacruna Council for protection of sacred plants
  • He is an integrative sound and music practitioner
  • He is involved in the Santo Daime
  • He has been drinking Ayahuasca for over 20 years
  • He began to ponder and ask a lot of questions about involvement with medicine communities

Psychedelic Liberty Summit

  • Rob will be hosting a talk on religious exemptions and more
  • There will be speakers of all different initiatives, from decriminalization to indigenous relations
  • There are a lot of investors interested in the psilocybin market
  • The issue is complex because there is this ongoing cultural history of the US and other countries exploiting those cultures and removing resources (oil, medicines, etc)

Ayahuasca

  • The first time Rob drank Ayahuasca was back in 2000, where there weren’t Ayahuasca retreats going on then
    • People who lived in the area were not familiar with Ayahuasca use
    • People started coming from around the world to use Ayahuasca
    • There are feedback loops between the cities and the forests
  • People typically think integration is what happens afterwards, but really it is also the sacrifice from the start, the preparation, such as a dieta
  • We need to honor what we have learned from the indigenous, and give back
  • Traditional dietas don’t involve actually drinking the Ayahuasca, the culture has come a long way

Accessibility

  • While these medicines are relatively safe, you can get in trouble using these substances recreationally, there is a role for the therapeutic support
  • It’s not just about whether or not people can afford psychedelic therapy, people cant even afford regular therapy, the whole healthcare model is an issue

Santo Daime

  • It was founded in the 1930’s in Brazil
  • The reason that the Santo Daime looks more white in the USA is due to the segregation
  • There are all sorts of ways that the Santo Daime may look
    • When Rob first got involved in drinking Ayahuasca, he wasn’t sure that he wanted to get involved in the Santo Daime, but he said the container was so strong
    • There are hymns sung, and it’s very structured
    • It allows you to really go deep
    • Sometimes it can look like drumming, dancing, and fire, but there is also a style of sitting in silence
  • There is a profound ethical foundation which is really important
    • All of the elements make for a really important container
  • In the traditional form, you do not touch anyone, unless there is a certain circumstance, and a prior consensual agreement, and waivers signed, etc
    • There have been issues of sexual abuse in the psychedelic realm, the Santo Daime takes many precautions against this

Churches

  • There are legal churches in the US through the Daime and the UDV (União do Vegetal)
  • The Daime has 5 churches that are explicitly legal
    • The government has decided not to pursue or prosecute Ayahuasca for those other churches
  • From Shock to Awe
  • Someone tragically died at the Soul Quest Church, but it wasn’t related to ayahuasca
  • There are a lot of people that claim to be a part of a Native American church that are not
    • A lot of people reach out to Chacruna on how to become a part of the Native American Church to hold ceremonies, and it’s not easy, you almost have to already be a part of it, instead of just joining
  • Some people don’t like the word church, but it originates from the words ‘congregation’ and ‘assembly’
  • “The problem is the controlled substances act, that these things are illegal in the first place” – Rob
  • “The experience in all those settings is about community. The goal isn’t to have spiritual experiences, its to have a spiritual life” – Rob
  • Psychedelics and entheogens could be central to creating a new hub
  • It is possible to create psychedelic churches outside of the Santo Daime
  • The Ayahuasca tradition really uses the potential of group process
  • “How individual is the psychedelic experience, where you need some one-on-one work?” – Kyle

Psychedelic Liberty Summit

  • April 25-26 in San Francisco
  • Discount Code: PsychedelicsToday for 10% off at checkout

Links

Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicine

Psychedelic Liberty Summit 

 

About Rob Heffernan

Rob Heffernan has been involved in the Peruvian curandero tradition and the Santo Daime for the last 16 years. He was a member and chairman of the North American Santo Daime Legal Committee for a number of years. He has been engaged in independent research and active in ad hoc groups promoting legal clarity and ethical integrity in the Ayahuasca Community. He is also a certified Integrative Sound and Music Practitioner; Shamanic Breath Work Facilitator; and a long time student and practitioner of Buddhist Dhamma. He has a BA in Communications and Social Studies from Fordham University, and works in the AV/IT communication industry.

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Alicia Danforth PhD – ICPR 2020: Ethical Challenges in Psychedelic Medicine

In this episode, Joe interviews Clinical Psychologist, Alicia Danforth. In the show, they cover topics including how to get involved in the space, consent, research, MDMA, Autism and more.

3 Key Points:

  1. Alicia Danforth is a Clinical Psychologist who will be having a talk on Ethical Challenges in Psychedelic Medicine at the ICPR Conference in the Netherlands, April 2020.
  2. There is a possibility for MDMA to have a non-responder effect. No one has done research dedicated to why some people don’t react at all to MDMA.
  3. Psychedelic science is very hard to talk about. We have the language of science that studies the psychopharmacological effects of drugs but no language that holds the effects of an altered state of consciousness yet.

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Show Notes

About Alicia

  • Her path to her current place is such a random road that led her to where she is
  • She was going to burning man and getting into harm reduction when she realized the untapped value of psychedelics, its where her interest began
  • She began volunteering, doing administrative work for a doctor
    • She was offered to be a study coordinator
  • She got introduced to the power of psilocybin as a medicine, for dying cancer patients
    • The patients had a prognosis from 6 months to a year
    • To see how this state of consciousness helped people transition to the end of life so smoothly, that is what inspired her
  • 5 months after she started working on the study, she got a cancer diagnosis

Getting Involved in the Space

  • Alicia would always get people approaching her about how to get in the field and she tells them “what field?”
  • Her Power Point making skills, are what technically got her involved in this field
  • “You never know what skill may be needed in this field” – Alicia
  • Alicia encourages people to look into their own collection of skills, and dig deep into that, find your niche, and then use that to contribute to the movement
    • Clinical therapists and psychologists are not the only people in this field
      We need accountants, marketers, etc

Consent

  • People start to get really religious around this field
  • Joe mentions a story where someone performed non-consensual reiki

Current Research

  • She is currently looking at why psychedelics appeal to people who typically like to abuse power
  • She did a talk at burning man about ‘coming down from the psychedelic power trip’
  • She tries to cite as many references and research as possible
  • Her talk at ICPR is going to be the very professional, version of that talk
  • Why are individuals who seek to abuse these tools so irresistibly drawn to psychedelics?
  • “If someone gets abused, and people say don’t come out about it because it’s not good for the movement, then what kind of movement is that?” – Joe

Empathogens

  • MDMA is known as an Empathogen
  • Can empathogens help people who are not empathetic, become empathetic?
  • Cohen’s D is the measure of effect size
    • Big pharma uses this all the time, to determine the effects of one drug compared to another
    • The Cohen’s D is how large that difference is

Non-response MDMA

  • There is a known, non-responder effect with MDMA
  • There was a few double-blind sessions, where the patient received MDMA, and they didn’t react, their vitals didn’t change
    • At the end,  it was revealed that they truly received MDMA, and then even to be sure, they would do a blood test, and it showed up in the blood
  • No one has done research dedicated to why some people don’t react at all to MDMA
  • It’s probably common, that for people who are relying on MDMA to work as their last resort option and try it and not feel anything at all, to end their life afterward

Media and Support

  • It’s the most difficult thing in dealing with the media
    • When you are entirely dependent on funding, if you don’t talk about what you’re doing, then you can’t get funding at all
  • There is a crisis in science on the replicability on these studies
    • Joe says its cool to have these studies replicated outside of the US
  • “Psychedelic science is very hard to talk about due to the subjective nature of the psychedelic experience. We have the language of science that studies the psychopharmacological effects of drugs. There is no language that holds the effects of an altered state of consciousness yet.” – Alicia
  • The rapport that the patient and facilitator have, and the effect of that relationship, is a variable

Links

Website

About Alicia Danforth

Alicia received her doctorate in clinical psychology from the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto in 2013. Since 2006, she has worked in clinical research at the Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center on clinical studies for adults with anxiety related to advanced-stage cancer and with autistic adults who experience social anxiety. She is currently a lead clinician and supervisor for a clinical trial at UCSF for psychological distress in long-term survivors of HIV/AIDS. She is also certified in Trauma-Focused CBT and Focusing-Oriented Psychotherapy.  

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Mike Margolies – Psychedelic Seminars: the Benefits, Risks, and Complexities of Psychedelics

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Mike Margolies of Psychedelic Seminars. In the show, they cover topics including guests and conversations from the Psychedelic Seminars, the decriminalization of all drugs, and the importance of allowing psychedelic use to be a part of training therapists for psychedelic therapy.

3 Key Points:

  1. Psychedelic Seminars is an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics.
  2. There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but the conversation on decriminalization of all drugs is rare, which is what’s really important.
  3. Some companies (MAPS for example) allow the option to use MDMA as a part of their therapist training program while other companies who are training therapists for psilocybin therapy, don’t have the option to use it. This leaves the question, “Should the psychedelic experience be part of the psychedelic therapy training?” 

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Show Notes

About Mike

  • Mike used to work as a chemical engineer in corporate America, and then he did Ayahuasca
    • When he returned, he thought to himself about what he wanted to do with the rest of his life
    • He took a look at the pulse of the country and looked at what it needed
    • There wasn’t anyone organized locally in Baltimore, so he started Psychedelic Seminars
  • Now he is living in the Bay Area, doing events locally
  • He has been interviewing people and putting the videos out globally

Psychedelic Seminars

  • They will be having some Indigenous people at the seminar
    • It’s hard to get Indigenous people to seminars and conferences, because, what’s in it for them?
  • The goal is to ramp up the project and do a seminar every month, where it usually takes place every few months
    • They are doing it all in a home, privately
    • The whole project is donation dependent, they are doing it all for free
    • You can support the mission here
  • After Michael Pollan, they did one with Jim Fadiman
  • He did another with Ayelet Waldman
    • The talks were on microdosing and the unknowns of microdosing
    • Just because there is no real harms taking a large dose of LSD, doesn’t mean there aren’t any harms taking a low (micro) dose of LSD frequently
    • Mike thinks that the term Jim Fadiman uses is its ‘sub-perceptual’, in that you have a noticeable effect on the mood, but no other way of noticing it

Decriminalization

  • Drug Policy tends to stay in the realm of psychedelics only
    • There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but no one likes to talk about the decriminalization of all drugs, which is what’s really important
    • Poppy is not considered in decriminalize nature, which is selective nature decriminalization
  • It’s not a real decriminalization, it’s just a low priority for law enforcement
  • He’s been asking in his conversations, opinions on decriminalizing all drugs
  • Different drugs have different risk profiles
  • “Just because you’re not using criminal justice as your mechanism for reducing risks of drugs, doesn’t mean you do nothing. The last thing we want to do is add criminalization to those who are already suffering, this is why we should decriminalize all drugs” – Mike
  • Laws should be written in terms of what are you not allowed to do, not what you’re allowed to do
    • He is allowed to walk down the sidewalk, but not punch someone he walks past, but the law shouldn’t be to get a license for walking down the street so long as you don’t punch someone
  • The communities that are marginalized continue to be marginalized by the drug war

Psychedelic Therapy and Experience with Use

  • With MAPS, there is an option to do MDMA as a part of the training
  • With psilocybin, at least with Compass Pathways, there is not an option to use psilocybin. Mike says that’s a huge issue
  • When you scale treatment, there is the risk of losing the quality of care
    • “We aren’t going to solve the problems of our future by mass distributing psychedelics” – Mike
  • The fact that we have such mass amounts of widespread depression, means that we have a deeply ingrained systemic issue at hand
    • Psychedelics treat the symptoms, but we still need to fix the underlying cause
    • “If you are distributing psychedelics, but still exacerbating the same underlying issues, you now have the problem and solution in the same hefty package” – Mike
  • “Psychedelic experience is intrinsically something spiritual. How can you guide someone in spiritual practice if you haven’t experienced it yourself?” – Mike
  • “Inducing a state intentionally, and guiding someone through a process, its completely unethical to guide someone through a spiritual process that you haven’t been through yourself.” – Mike

New Economy

  • Burning man is not a barter economy, it’s a gift economy, where things are given without an expectation of receiving something in return
    • We are far from that economy
  • What if we had a world where instead of trying to extract value, we were trying to create value?

Links

Psychedelic Seminars Website

Psychedelic Seminars Patreon

About Mike Margolies

Since 2015, Mark has worked full-time in the psychedelic community, starting and contributing to a number of projects as an event and media producer, connector, and advisor. He is the Founder of Psychedelic Seminars, an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics. On the PsychSems stage, he has interviewed a range of leaders including bestselling author Michael Pollan, Dr. James Fadiman and Ayelet Waldman on microdosing, and therapeutic ketamine expert Dr. Raquel Bennett. He started the project in 2015 after returning to his home city of Baltimore to build community for open and honest conversations about psychedelics. The project now operates primarily out of the San Francisco Bay Area and livestreams globally. Through his psychedelic community work in Baltimore, he seeded the Baltimore Psychedelic Society. He has sparked and mentored similar Psychedelic Societies around the world from Washington DC to San Francisco to Portugal. He helped start the Global Psychedelic Network to connect them.

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Elizabeth Nielson and Ingmar Gorman – The Importance of Psychedelic Integration Training for Therapists

In this Episode, Kyle sits down with Elizabeth Nielson and Ingmar Gorman, Co-founders of Fluence, Training in Psychedelic Integration. They are both therapists on the MAPS clinical trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD.

3 Key Points:

1. Elizabeth and Ingmar are co-founders of Fluence, a Psychedelic Integration Training program.

2. If psychedelic treatments become available more widely, the fear is that therapists won’t be as educated on how to handle their patient interactions based on the behavior of each psychedelic. Psychedelic Integration Therapy Training is so important.

3. It’s important for the wider public to understand how psychedelics work in order to anticipate some of the variety of patient reactions after psychedelic therapy.

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Show Notes

About Ingmar

  • He is a Co-Principal Investigator for the MAPS MDMA/PTSD trial
  • He is a Psychologist and the Co-founder of Fluence
  • He trains mental health professionals in psychedelic integration

About Elizabeth

  • Elizabeth is a Psychologist and Co-founder of Fluence
  • She has worked on clinical trials using MDMA and clinical trials using Psilocybin
  • She trains mental health professionals in psychedelic integration

The Trial

  • The approval of expanded access by the FDA includes 50 people in total for now
  • They are near the end of MAPP 1 (out of MAPP1 and MAPP2)
  • There are 3 phases
    • Phase 1 addresses the safety of a drug in humans
    • Phase 2 is where you begin to test your treatment in a specified patient population
    • Phase 3 is where you get the data to demonstrate efficacy in a larger population pre-approval
    • They are done as a double-blind trial, both the therapist and patient don’t know if the patient is receiving the treatment or now

Takeaways

  • There is a lot of information that has to be shared effectively
  • The therapists are very much aware of the participant’s lives, just just administering MDMA
  • Instead of learning from the trials of what to do on a practical level, its about inspiring them to bring this as an actual treatment for people
  • The multiple ways that PTSD can manifest and look like, and the may ways that MDMA can look like when administered, have some commonalities
    • The deepening, the broadening, the way they communicate, can all be the same
  • Ingmar holds the belief in the inner healing intelligence of all people
    • One of the first things he does when he begins with a new patient, he says that this is something he really believes in, and his role as a therapist to help them in their own healing process
  • What Elizabeth wanted to learn, know and practice while she was going through school, isn’t what she she thought it was until she found it
    • She says this work really requires them to trust people’s autonomy and experiences
    • There is something that they tell their patients, “Don’t get ahead of the medicine” – Elizabeth
  • There is an interesting paradox between not knowing and following intuition, to having an actual method and following that
    • There is a sweet spot between following a script to following your intuition as a therapist
    • You want to trust that inner healer process of the patient, but also need to know when to intervene (usually from a safety standpoint)

Fluence

 
  • 3 days after Horizons, Elizabeth was at home with a cold, and talked to Ingmar that morning curious for a name for the project
  • Fluence means, magical or mystical power or source of power
    • It can also refer to the density of particles of energy in a given area
  • They teach about harm reduction and integration to mental health providers
    • They aren’t teaching psychedelic therapy protocols in the workshops
  • An important part of integration is mindfulness
  • Ingmar’s biggest influence are his clients and patients, he is inspired by them
    • A large piece of the motivation for creating Fluence is from patients just looking for someone to talk about their experience with

The Why

  • A mother whose teenage daughter with depression, reached out to Ingmar with trouble trying to treat her daughter’s depression
    • The family decided it would be a good idea to use Ketamine therapy, which was successful
    • She was doing well and went to her regular therapist to integrate it
      The therapist that she went to then instead of responding positively, decided to fire the teenager from further therapy, and reported the parents to child protective services for providing ketamine therapy
    • Ingmar says their position is not that everyone needs psychedelic integration therapy, its specifically for those that don’t feel supported by family or community, and it gives them a professional service as an option
  • “Psychedelics are not 10 years of change in one night, they are 10 years of insight in one night. integration is so important.” – Elizabeth
  • The goal is to support people in making a change that feels safe and right for them
  • If the treatments become available more widely, the fear is that therapists won’t be as educated on how to handle their patient interactions based on the behavior of each psychedelic
    • Mental health practitioners can be a great source for working through those experiences

Menla Training

  • They could really take their time with the process and training
  • The trainings that they had gone led has made their Fluence courses better
  • In 2019 they had 5 of the trainings for clinicians, and the trainings will be better and better as they go

Ketamine Infusion Therapy

  • The experience is not dose dependent
  • The purpose of the workshop is to educate both therapists and doctors about what can happen in ketamine treatment 

Links

Fluence

Psychedelics 101 and 102 Workshop at ICPR 2020

About Elizabeth

Dr. Elizabeth Nielson is a co-founder of Fluence and a psychologist with a focus on developing psychedelic medicines as empirically supported treatments for PTSD, substance use problems, and mood disorders. Dr. Nielson is a therapist on FDA approved clinical trials of psilocybin-assisted treatment of alcohol use disorder, MDMA-assisted treatment PTSD, and psilocybin-assisted treatment of treatment resistant depression. Through Fluence, she provides continuing education and training programs for therapists who wish to engage in integration of psychedelic experiences in clinical settings. Her program of research includes qualitative and mixed-methods projects designed to further understand the phenomenology and mechanisms of change in psychedelic-assisted therapy, including the experiences of trial participants and of the therapists themselves. Having completed an NIH postdoctoral fellowship at NYU, she has published and presented on topics of psychedelic therapist training, therapists’ personal experience with psychedelics, and including psychedelic integration in group and individual psychotherapy.

About Ingmar

Dr. Ingmar Gorman is a co-founder of Fluence and a psychologist who specializes in assisting populations who have a relationship with psychedelics. He is the site co-principal investigator and therapist on a Phase 3 clinical trial studying MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for post-traumatic stress disorder. Dr. Gorman is a board member of Horizons Media, Inc., a not for-profit educational charity and organizer of the Horizons Conference: Perspectives on Psychedelics. After completing his NIH postdoctoral fellowship at New York University, Dr. Gorman stepped down as director of the Psychedelic Education and Continuing Care Program to focus his efforts on Fluence and the training of future therapists.

Designed to help the body with cellular energy and cardiovascular endurance.

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Jon S. – NYU’s Double-Blind Trial of Psilocybin-Assisted Treatment of Alcohol Dependence

In this episode, Joe interviews Jon S. on his experience in the psilocybin-assisted trials for alcohol dependency at NYU. In the show, they dive into Jon’s background and how psilocybin assisted therapy helped him out of his alcohol dependence and into a new life.

3 Key Points:

  1. Jon participated in the NYU Double-Blind Trial of Psilocybin-Assisted Treatment of Alcohol Dependence.
  2. The study was double-blind. In each session, he didn’t know if he was going to receive psilocybin or Benadryl. 

  3. The sessions helped him so much with this dependence on alcohol, he believes he is a better father, husband, and human overall. He hasn’t had a drink in 5 months (or a desire to). 

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Show Notes

About Jon

  • He is based in New York
  • Jon is the father of 2 kids
  • He spent a lot of his life DJing, so he has spent a lot of time around alcohol
  • He found out about a psychedelic therapy study at NYU from someone at a Holotropic Breathwork Retreat
    • The study took place in New York City
  • He had always wanted to explore the psychedelic side of things
    • He read Michael Pollan’s book and it said in the book that the Holotropic Breathwork community would be a great group to help find a guide

The Trial

  • In his assessment, he found out truly how much he was drinking
    • He would crack a beer before even playing with his kids
    • He was into craft beer and at 8% a beer, his 3 beers were more like 5
  • He was asked to not have his sessions recorded so he could be as open as he could be
  • The session was very focused on curbing drinking
  • His wife knew he was going down the path of psychedelic healing
    • “I’m not doing this to have a good time, I’m doing this to be a better person” – Jon
  • His trial was double-blind
    • He was never told when he was receiving the psilocybin at each session
    • He was told that he was either going to get 1 or 3 doses in the trial

The First Session

  • The first session with the eye shades on (on psilocybin), was very visual
  • In that first session he kept seeing this pirate ship underwater
    • His sons would say “come on daddy, lets play on the pirate ship”
    • He would go to the pirate ship with his sons and then say “I need to go back down and do some work”, and he would swim back into the depths
  • He came home that day, and his youngest son greeted him at the door, and said let’s play power rangers, I’ll be the red power ranger and you be the pirate
  • It hit him in a float tank session, the message of that session was to play with his sons more
  • He had a moment in his first session of rebirth

Integration

  • There is a 2 hour integration session the very next day
    • He didn’t think it was going to be as important as it turned out to be
  • He had the choice to keep it at the same dose or up it
    • He upped the dose to 40mg instead of 25mg
  • He was told his second session wouldn’t be anything like his first
  • The medicine was so intense the second time, he couldn’t even remember the music
  • In his second session, he saw a body being chopped up (realizing it was his body)
    • He realized that he was one with the universe, love is the only thing that matters
    • He wanted to be a part of everything
  • He was compensated about $100 per session
    • “When the university gives you financial compensation, you buy everyone in the ice cream shop ice cream” – Jon
  • Jon says he has a new baseline for anxiety
    • He never thought he had anxiety, but after his sessions, he found that he is way less anxious than he was, even though he really wasn’t
  • He didn’t have a desire to drink, he hasn’t had a drink in 5 months
  • He has never felt better or happier
  • He’s a much better dad, and husband

Life After the Experience

  • He is re-reading Aldous Huxley and is finding a whole new meaning to it all
  • He is spending more time with his family and being present with the
    • He spends a ton of time with his kids now
  • Stuff that used to worry him, doesn’t worry him anymore
  • His experience was everything he hoped for and more
  • He genuinely believes, that whatever he got out of a session, is what he needed

Final Thoughts

  • He is talking to the Decrim Nature in NY
  • He appreciates the platform (Psychedelics Today) for the space to talk about his experience
  • He appreciates everyone at NYU for the work they are doing 
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Joost Breeksema – The Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research

In this episode, Joe interviews Joost Breeksema from the Netherlands to talk about the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research. In the show they cover topics on ICPR 2020, and the importance of accessibility.

3 Key Points:

  1. The Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research takes place April 24-26, 2020 in the Netherlands.
  2. It’s important to acknowledge the indigenous, ethical, and political dimensions to psychedelic use at conferences.
  3. Although this conference will be catered toward mainstream science and research, personal experiences and stories are important too.

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Show Notes

About Joost

  • Joost is a part of the OPEN Foundation
  • ICPR is a huge conference
    • Nobody before was doing research on psychedelics in the Netherlands
  • William James work sparked Joost’s interest in psychedelics

ICPR

  • Starting with the OPEN Foundation, the conference has been very scientific
    • It is interdisciplinary, but also taken very seriously
    • This field is so broad, you could really never get bored
  • Wade Davis, Alicia Danforth, Matt Johnson and more will be speaking at the conference
  • There will be over 80 speakers
  • Joost expects it to be a pretty international conference, half local, and half from abroad
  • Psychiatrists are usually short on time, and they like things compressed more
  • It’s really easy and cheap to grow psilocybin as mushrooms or truffles
    • Even in Mexico, they need to use GMP Psilocybin

Accessibility

  • “If this is going to be the treatment, how are we going to help people afford it?” – Joe
  • There is some tricky stuff happening, companies trying to patent different parts of psilocybin to use it for therapeutic use
  • Ketamine has been off patent for years, but you can develop a new route of administration, patent that, and make a ton of money
  • Spravato is making it to the UK

Conference Themes

  • Joost is both excited and scared that they are bringing indigenous practitioners to the conference
    • It’s important to acknowledge the indigenous, ethical, and political dimensions to psychedelic use
    • Talking about concepts and approaches to healing is going to be an important aspect
    • The goal would be to do research with the indigenous communities to be able to address the needs of psychedelic use
  • There are also a few neuroimaging people coming
  • For mainstream scientists, the conference has to be as close to a scientific conference as possible, they may be turned off to the cultural aspects of psychedelics
    • It’s the conservative nature of psychedelia
  • Joost also says that although the scientific research is important, it is really cool to hear the personal experiences
  • People’s experience with psychedelics may be completely different from each other
    • It’s important to share the bad stories with the good stories
    • If we don’t share the stories and data and research, then we can never learn
  • Joe hopes that there will be a growth of citizen science in the near future

Links

ICPR

About Joost

Joost Breeksema is a part of the OPEN Foundation, which from it came the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research. His current research focuses on the experiences of patients that are undergoing therapy assisted by psychedelic substances. His aim is to better understand psychological mechanisms of action/change, to tease out salient themes, and finally to learn about what works and what does not work in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.

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Hallie Rose and Kyle Buller – Soltara Healing Center and Kyle’s Experience with the Plant Medicine

In this episode, Kyle invites a guest interviewer, Hallie Rose of the Thought Room Podcast, to interview him on his recent experience at Soltara. In the show, they talk about Soltara, Kyle’s experience with the plant medicine, and important topics like privilege. 

3 Key Points:

  1. Integration is an important part of working with psychedelics and plant medicines. Indigenous cultures have different integration perspectives than Western attendees. In the West, attendees come back to more hustle and bustle, and may need more time for integration. Soltara does a really good job at providing integration resources and educating guests about the post-medicine experience. 
  2. Ayahuasca is a relational medicine. An anology that one of the facilitators used was that with psilocybin and other psychedelics, there is this one big entry door into the space – you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily. With Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate throug and you have to create a relationship with the medicine first.

  3. If the people that really need the help can’t even afford medicine experiences, then how do we have mass healing? Peer support movements may be a way forward with this issue. As the field continues to grow, we need to look at more affordable and accessible models. 

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Show Notes

About Hallie

  • Hallie interviewed Kyle after his first 4 experiences with Ayahuasca
  • Kyle’s episode on The Thought Room Podcast about his Near Death Experience
  • The Thought Room Podcast was inspired by Hallie’s first Ayahuasca experience
  • She had typically pushed away anything psychedelic in nature, even alcohol before coming to Soltara as a guest
    • “A lot of the paradigms I had been working with were flipped upside down on their head” – Hallie
  • The message that really spoke to her was to create a podcast
    • 2 ceremonies later she had some things come up about family and career, and again, the message ‘podcast’ came up again
    • When she went over her integration notes from her experience at Soltara, she kept coming back to the podcast thing
    • She describes her journal entry message as a black hole, a void
    • She felt like she was in rooms, some were bright and rainbow-y, and others were dark and lonely
    • The rooms were rooms for thoughts, thought rooms
  • She owns the start up company Lunar Wild

Soltara

  • Hallie mentions that she was blown away by the amount of effort that it takes to uphold a medicine center like Soltara
  • Kyle says right from the start from arrival to the location, he was greeted with such warmth and it reminded him of his breathwork background
    • The ground rules that they laid down right at the start made him feel so safe
    • She said it’s amazing to see the amount of healing that happens in that space
    • “When it comes to your own medicine work, your own journey work, only you know what’s right for you” – Hallie
  • Hallie is part of a mastermind group through Aubrey Marcus, the CEO of Onnit
    • She is connected to a bunch of people as a part of this group
    • She was introduced to Dan Cleland, a co-founder of Soltara, who invited her to come down
  • Yes they had the traditional Shipibo aspects, but they also did a fantastic job of adding in the Western concepts to cater to the western needs
    • Hallie mentions that coming from the West, we have the need to integrate the experience in a different way than those coming from the East, and Soltara does a really good job with that kind of integration

The First Session

  • Before the first ceremony, participants engaged in what is called “vomitivo.” This is a process of clearing the body through purging. Participants are asked to drink a tea made from lemongrass and other admixtures that contain purgative properties.
    • Kyle said the tea was actually tasty
    • You drink a lot of it where you override the system to where the body wants to purge
    • The purging is to clear the system out of toxins and clean it out energetically
  • Soltara built in pre-ceremony sessions like yoga or meditation to help ease into the actual sessions
  • Kyle said that the Ayahuasca experience was familiar
    • Everything felt very green behind his eyes
    • There was a serpent weaving in and out of his DNA
    • The experience felt so healing
    • Kyle didn’t purge (vomit) but did do a little crying
    • He said he did not experience much anxiety
    • The serpent was healing him and stitching parts of himself back together
    • “There is something intelligent here working on very subtle levels” – Kyle
  • The next two ceremonies were very gentle, some crying, going through family dynamics, but always in the background, there was that same serpent
  • Kyle said the first 3 sessions felt really easy, compared to previous experiences with psychedelics
    • The spirit said to him “oh you think this was going to be easy, that you would just drink this and that I would show you all this stuff. Well, we have to get to know each other first”
    • With psilocybin, there is this one big door, you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily, with Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate through, you have to create a relationship with the medicine first

Final Ceremony

  • It was during the full moon in Cancer and lunar eclipse, the energy was already intense
  • For the 4th ceremony, Kyle was already feeling high energy, and did not want to go too strong, so he started with ¾ of a cup
    • Kyle felt more subtle effects of the medicine during the first part of the ceremony and the medicine told him to ask for a second dose
    • The facilitator gave Kyle ¼ of a cup more
    • That ¼ of a cup really opened up a door for Kyle
  • After the singing, he laid down and that’s when things took off
    • All of a sudden, he saw himself back in the CAT scan machine (referring back to his NDE as a teen)
    • He always tells the story as blissful and beautiful, but this time was so different
    • He saw himself back in the CAT scan machine as a child, and was terrified, and he began shaking
    • He felt this pain in his pelvic area as he felt during his NDE
    • He was shivering and so cold, it brought him right back into that state
    • He was re-experiencing the fear in a new way during the ceremony
    • He went into his body and felt the scar tissue and felt that shake and stretch and kind of brought in some healing there
    • After his actual surgery/NDE, as he was healing he was always really afraid to move in certain ways in the fear that movement would re-open some of the healing wounds
  • He got a clear way of looking at how the body holds trauma, especially after surgery
    • That trauma is tied to the way we hold ourselves, the way we walk and talk and in so many ways
    • This ceremony helped Kyle view somatic body work in such a new light
  • The ceremony was not scary, he allowed his body to process the fear, but not attach to the fear and become fearful
  • Yoga can also bring that out, stillness and vulnerability can bring up some body trauma and put you into that fight or flight response
  • Even when you think you’re done processing something, there are always more layers to dig into and see something differently to bring more clarity

Preparation

  • Hallie said what she is learning with this medicine, is that she doesn’t need to make anything happen, she needs to just let it happen
    • That feeling of relaxing things is scary because it means giving up control
    • It’s a practice and its a lot easier said than done
  • The most important part is the set (mindset), because the set is you
    • “Having your set figured out, when the going gets tough, you’re safe still” – Hallie
  • Kyle said that Aya always told him to wait, he didn’t need to jump into trying it right away, he waited over 10 years to process his NDE trauma
    • Hallie says it’s just like marriage, you can get married easily, but it’s not always going to work out if you don’t have the tools and the skill sets to maintain it
    • Ayahuasca is similar in needing the right tools and time to do it right
  • The dieta and the prep itself is so hard
  • People are turned off by the idea of doing something disciplined
    • These experiences can be so much different when we go through the process of giving something up
    • It’s not to punish ourselves, it’s to heal ourselves
    • “There is a whole other side of us, that opens up when we cut out some of the things that numb us” – Hallie
    • The dieta strips away the illusions, the plant medicines help us remember who we are

Hopi Creation Story

  • The great creator said “I have a gift for the human beings, but I need to hide it somewhere until they are ready to find it”
    • It is “the gift of the knowing that they can create anything, they can create their own reality”
  • The creator asked the earth where he should hide it
    • The eagle said he will bring it to the moon
    • The fish said he will bring it to the bottom of the sea
    • The buffalo said he will bring it to the edge of the plains
    • The creator said no to all of them, they will find it there
  • So the great grandmother who lives in the breast of the earth said, put it inside of them
    • And the creator said “it is done”
  • It brought Kyle back to his fourth ceremony, the Ayahuasca was a reminder that everything he needed was already inside of him

Privilege

  • It’s hard to tell people of their only legal options for healing, which most of them are leaving the country, which is not an option for some people
    • We are all worthy of finding relief of our suffering through psychedelics
  • Is therapy only going to be for the rich and elite? There are so many people who really need it
  • Yes, you can grow mushrooms, but then you’re at risk of the law
  • The system is so complex and we need a more humane way of moving forward in this field and offer experiences like this to the people that need it
  • Therapy is a privilege
    • Most people that need therapy are in survival mode that don’t have the privilege of access to therapy
  • Peer support movements are a way forward in this issue
    • If the people that really need the help can’t even afford it, then how do we have mass healing?
    • There are great healers out there that never became healers because they didn’t have the privilege to
  • Kyle says he escaped a lot of suicidal ideation after his near death experience, it took a lot of time to call earth his home
  • “Just to wake up and be a part of this, even that is magical in itself” – Kyle
  • “The stars come out every night, and we watch television” – Hallie

Authentic Self

  • Hallie has recently had her 12th Ayahuasca experience
    • “I am no longer breathing, I am being breathed” – Hallie
  • “Hatred does not exist, it is only a resistance to love” – Hallie
  • Even being hard on ourselves is only a resistance to loving ourselves
    • Its love with nowhere to go
  • People that have a lot of self hatred toward their bodies or themselves, the medicine always comes back to the self, it teaches people to love and take care of themselves
    • “You really can’t love anything outside of yourself until you love yourself” – Hallie
    • Kyle says that the people who he looks up to (ex, Stan Grof), what if they never showed up for themselfves? What if they never stood up for what they believe in?

Links

$200 off coupon code for Soltara: THOUGHTROOM

Soltara Healing Center

Hallie’s Instagram

Thought Room Podcast 

About Hallie

Hallie Rose is an author, speaker, educator, and relationship coach from New York City. She is the host of The Thought Room Podcast and also the founder & CEO of the company Lunar Wild which aims to reclaim the sacred feminine and address a modern need for a Rite of Passage into womanhood. The Thought Room is a combination of edge-of-your-seat storytelling and groundbreaking interviews with celebrated thought-leaders from around the world. The show covers a breadth of topics including psychology, spirituality, sex & relationships, psychedelic science & plant medicine, bio-hacking, fitness, nutrition, alternative health, business & entrepreneurship, mindfulness, yoga, and meditation.

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Aaron Orsini – How LSD Helped Bridge the ASD Neurotypical Divide

This disclaimer was originally posted in our episode, Treating Social Anxiety in Adults with Autism with MDMA and LSD – Voices in the Dark, and it feels important to post it on this episode as well. 

Caution/Disclaimer

A few important notes. This is an episode of an individual experimenting with powerful drugs to see if he can get any sort of relief from autism. In this case, it appears to have been successful. That said, this came with a substantial amount of risks, and people need to be aware. Please read the below bullets so you understand. 

  • Autism is not what is treated. The thing being treated would be a symptom like social anxiety.
  • “The field of autism science includes a long and shameful history of quack treatments and parents taking desperate and harmful measures to “fix” their children. Autism is a spectrum of congenital and neurocognitive variants, and there are no published research data in support of any compound that can influence its course.” Alicia Danforth, PhD
  • Please do not administer these drugs to children with autism. It would be highly unethical to do so. 
  • There are only two researchers investigating where MDMA and autism meet – Alicia Danforth PhD and Dr. Charlie Grob. A scientific paper will likely be available on this in the next few months. Expect to see more here. 
  • These drugs have not been shown to cure or treat autism, but in some cases, just like with neuro-typical individuals, some have seen meaningful changes. 
  • Even if changes are noticed the person is still autistic no matter how many high doses of psychedelics they take.
  • Obtaining pure drugs is very difficult if not impossible in black markets.
    • Verifying purity will require the resources of mass spectrometry from organizations offering these services like Energy Control or Ecstasy Data
    • Providing unsafe, dirty or compromised drugs to people can cause serious harm or death.
  • If you are planning to use MDMA to alleviate some suffering on your own, please wait or don’t.
  • Do substantial research and have skilled people available to help. 

Thanks to Alicia Danforth for helping us understand the nuance’s in this area.

..autism is a genetically determined cognitive variant. It’s pervasive, and it affects the whole person, not just the brain. No chemical compound has been shown to treat, cure, or alter the course of autism. However, for some people, substances like MDMA can help them manage symptoms such as anxiety, social anxiety, and trauma effects. – Alicia Danforth, Ph.D

In this episode, Joe sits down with Aaron Orsini, Author of Autism on Acid. In this powerful episode, Aaron shares his moving story on how LSD gave him life-saving relief from his struggles with Autism Spectrum Disorder.

3 Key Points:

  1. Aaron spent the first 20+ years of his life suffering from the struggles of Autism Spectrum Disorder. He changed his life in an unexpected way through the use of LSD.
  2. LSD gave Aaron the emotional installation of perception to see the stimuli in life that he had been blind from because of his disorder.
  3. Aaron is the author of the book, Autism on Acid, a self told story on his autistic perceptions before, during and after his LSD experience. He goes into great depth on his experience in the show.

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Show Notes

About Aaron

  • A large part of his psychedelic journey stems from his Autism
  • His diagnosis didn’t affect him in school so much as it affected him in his adult years with socialization
  • His childhood friends were more based on similar shared activities
  • When he was thrusted into more social situations, he had more issues with non-repetitive and non-scheduled socialization
    • He was anxious in the idea that he would go into avoidance, he wasn’t very afraid, just more confused
    • Most of his knowledge was based on repetition and memorization, it was harder to navigate new or unique social scenarios
    • Social vertigo is how he described his experience
  • His doctor told him to read some books, and he felt like he was reading a journal on his own life

A Transition Point

  • Aaron left his job
    • A relationship he was in ended
    • A friend of his was killed by a drunk driver
  • He was in a dark place, and he wanted to retreat
    • He didn’t know what he needed, he just wanted to leave
  • He got a backpack and a bike and headed west toward California
  • He had an opportunity to try LSD
    • He thought it was going to be an escape, and it ended up being the most involved experience of his life
    • He sat on a tree stump in a wooded area, finally noticing everything that had been there his whole life that he hadn’t seen before
    • He saw the beauty in literally being alive
    • He sat there and cried for an hour or two, it was a lot
  • Aaron eventually got up, and started walking and saw some people walking and he had an urge to say hello, so he did, and they said “hello, how are you” back
    • He describes it as a sensation of a child riding a bike for the first time
    • Them saying “hello, how are you” to him, was the first time he experienced someone saying hello to him and him feeling it
    • It was like a def person getting a cochlear implant and hearing for the first time
    • It kick started his exploration of the world around him

Integration

  • His LSD experience was about 6 years ago, and he didn’t know much about LSD at the time
    • He didn’t know what to do with his experience
  • In the beginning, he felt as if he would go into it, see everything very clearly, and then back out of it again, and things felt more muted and ‘blurry’
    • “I was utilizing LSD, not for a sub-perceptive, metabolic effect, I was going for a supra-perceptive effect” – Aaron
  • Aaron was taking at or slightly above the threshold dose amount (20-50micrograms)
    • For someone who already had sensitivity issues, it was very apparent when he would take ‘too much’
  • In no way is he advocating someone to repeat what he has done, he wants it more to spark interest in researchers to find more data on this in the hopes to find relief for others

Emotional Installation

  • “LSD has helped me understand myself and embrace that” – Aaron
  • Aaron said he’s willing to take a risk to not be anonymous, because it’s not some simple thing, it’s so important, it’s the most important thing to him
  • He gets emails all the time saying the same thing has happened to them, but they want to stay anonymous
  • Aaron says it has changed his relationships with his loved ones, the fact that he has this new depth of feeling has changed his relationships dramatically
  • The main treatments for kids with autism was to help the caretaker, to help the child not fidget when they sleep
    • Aaron says he needed to fidget, he needed to squirm around
    • “If you can’t hear, and someone is telling you over and over again ‘listen, listen, listen’, how are you going to begin to listen? That’s the void that LSD filled.” – Aaron
  • He fell in love with parts of himself that he didn’t get a chance to before
  • Every other form of therapy was coming from the outside and telling him what to feel, LSD was the only therapy that came from the inside
  • He mentions a quote from a documentary on someone who used truffles to help them, “Truffles installed emotionality in me”

Hope for Research

  • There were studies done with LSD on autistic children in hospital settings before the drug prohibition
    • The results showed the kids changing so fast and so effectively
  • It’s a difficult topic, ASD research in general is heavily funded by the government
  • Autism aside, the older you are in life, the more surprised you are when that veil is lifted for a moment
  • The risk that he is taking is nothing compared to the significance of what good this has a chance of bringing
  • It’s not a desired risk to come out as an Autistic person, and especially as one who has taken controlled substances to heal from it

Links

Autism on Acid: How LSD Helped Me Bridge The ASD-Neurotypical Divide  

Website 

Email: autismonacid@gmail.com

About Aaron Orsini

Aaron Paul Orsini is a writer, public speaker, and survivor of a decades-long battle with clinical depression resulting from social isolation, mental rumination, and hypo-sensitivity issues common in autistic individuals. When Aaron was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at the age of 23, he took comfort in receiving a diagnosis but remained deeply depressed as a result of seeing himself as broken and blind; someone who just couldn’t and wouldn’t “get it”. But then came his first experience with LSD, during which he became intuitively aware of the very stimuli he’d been incapable of perceiving throughout his life. Thanks to LSD—and a yet-to-be-fully-understood combination of chemically-induced synesthesia and associated fluctuations in intrinsic functional connectivity within the salience and default mode networks, Aaron can now perceive critical social cues embedded in facial expressions, speaking tones, and body language, which in turn means he feels fully connected to the human experience, and fully capable of navigating the social and emotional landscapes of life.

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Daniel Greig – The Cognitive Continuum: From Insight to Enlightenment

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview previous guest of the show, Daniel Greig. In the show, he goes in depth into the meaning of enlightenment and previews the new book he is writing with Dr. John Vervaeke, The Cognitive Continuum.

3 Key Points:

  1. Insight, flow and mystical experiences are all facets of working toward enlightenment.
  2. Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality. It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life.
  3. The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness. The most important part of having a mystical (psychedelic) experience is coming back into our bodies and developing better relationships with ourselves, others and the world.

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Show Notes

The Cognitive Continuum

  • There will be a crowdfunding campaign launched for the book
  • The book will be a combination of art and science
  • He is writing it with Dr. John Vervaeke
  • The core of cognitive continuum is insight
  • There is also the flow state
  • There are also mystical states
  • Insight, flow and mystical experiences all have something to do with enlightenment
    • If we can train people on how to access this cognitive continuum, they can become enlightened

Enlightenment

  • It is important to see the truth
    • “How can we take our natural ability to attach to things, and learn to step back and care about the greater good?” – Daniel
  • Cognitive flexibility is important to understand the needs of the greater collective
    • “Enlightenment means to apprehend truth and act in relation to truth” – Daniel
  • Mind does not equal brain

Gut Feeling

  • EGG – electro gastro grams
  • There is a singular resting state network between the brain and the stomach
    • You’re never really able to access this network, but when we have ‘gut feelings’ it’s typically coming from neurons in your stomach
  • Being grounded in those sensations of the stomach is a huge part of problem solving and guidance in truths
  • We need to get back to ‘feeling’ something as actually meaning something

Mystical Experience

  • Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality
  • It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life
  • Daniel uses a lot of Roberto Unger’s theories in his new book
  • There is the absolute reality and illusory reality
  • The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness
    • The most important part of having a mystical experience is the coming back into our bodies, having better relationships with ourselves and others
  • Psychedelics don’t do anything by just sitting there, they take a perceiver to matter and make a difference
    • It’s the person, the body, that really holds the power to embodiment

Psychedelics and Enlightenment

  • People say that psychedelics are a shortcut to enlightenment
    • Daniel says that psychedelics can help take people out of depression style states
    • A mystical experience can help you, but you’re going to hit a plateau if you don’t integrate and interpret these experiences
  • For those practicing a lot of psychedelic work, they should balance with body work like yoga
    • There needs to be a balance in all practices in order to keep escalating toward enlightenment

Links

Website 

About Daniel Greig

Daniel is an educator, organizer and artist living in Toronto. He studied Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto, specializing in wisdom, consciousness, and spiritual belief and experience. In 2015, he founded the Mapping the Mind conference that occurs annually in Toronto, which raises much needed funds for psychedelic research. Daniel regularly host lectures and workshops, on topics in cognitive science. He is currently writing a book with Dr. John Vervaeke on the science of enlightenment, which will be published in 2020. When not contemplating the realm of the intellect, Daniel delves in the sonic perturbations of music, writing and producing progressive metal.

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Chris Bache – LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Chris Bache, author of LSD and the Mind of the Universe. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions and talks about his experience in the show.

3 Key Points:

  1. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions, but he says that pushing the edge of high dose and high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties. He does not recommend high dose sessions like he did.
  2. The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves.
  3. In the show, they discuss psychedelic therapy and the debate on whether or not therapists should have to have psychedelic experience to do the therapy. Chris believes that the level of experience a therapist has had will impact the type of support they will be able to give.

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Show Notes

Psychedelic Interest

  • It was at the time Chris had just finished grad school and was looking where to take his research as a university professor
  • He was introduced to the work of Stan Grof, and his book Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research (Condor Books)
  • He was the professor of Religious Studies, sticking to his traditional life
  • He knew there would come a time for him to share his experiences with a larger audience
  • Chris says he’s always been locked into his body and his physical experience
    • He had no background in psychedelic states of consciousness

Protocol

  • He said you’re always working with a sitter and same context/setting
  • As the dosage increased, he began creating a more intense music playlist
    • Chris thinks music is very important for psychedelic sessions
  • Chris does not recommend working with high doses
  • “When you’re working with opening consciousness that radically, music has a tremendous effect, it has an amplifying effect by 5 or 10x than doing it without music” – Chris
  • Chris said he has experienced all the common layers of the psychedelic unconscious that’s talked about

Consciousness Levels

  • Chris experienced 4 different death/rebirths
  • Chris differentiated 5 levels of the universe
    • The first is at the personal mind, where an ego death happens
    • The second takes places at the collective mind, about species
    • The third level is an archetypal mind, the high subtle mind, moving beyond the species existence
    • The fourth level is causal mind, causal oneness, profound states of non-dual reality
    • The last is Diamond Luminosity, its absolute clarity, pureness

Psychedelic Therapy

  • Chris says that there is a certain level of support that one needs to truly let go of themselves and let go to the experience
  • He says that he thinks the level of experience will impact the type of support a therapist will be able to give

Subtle Level

  • The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves
  • Pushing the edge of high dose, high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties
  • Chris says he was very secret about his psychedelic use, his students didn’t know about it
    • But he said after he had gone deep and touched these different levels of consciousness, his students became alive
    • The deeper he went in his own work, the more it touched the students at a deeper level

Potency

  • Chris thinks that LSD is a little cleaner than other psychedelics
    • His basic sense is that psilocybin tends to be less evocative, disruptive
    • Ayahuasca is more disruptive in opening up to deeper levels
    • LSD is the most disruptive in opening people up to really deep levels of consciousness
    • With LSD is was less about his personal experience, and more about the collective unconscious experience

Realizations

  • With one of his experiences, he had seen everything in his whole life all at once
  • He then entered into archetypal experiences, the platonic domain beyond the time-space reality
  • The beings he ‘met’ were as large as universes, responsible for creating time and space
  • He went into ‘deep time’, different magnitudes of time experiences in a broader frame of reference (where we are in the history of time, what our future looks like)
  • He reached that diamond luminosity level only 4 times out of all of his LSD sessions
  • “If we keep this up, sooner or later, the totality of this consciousness is going to wake up” – Chris
  • “We are moving toward a collective wake up, it’s not a personal experience, it’s a collective experience. An evolution of our species.” -Chris
  • If Chris has one tip, is to let go of our fear of death, when we die, we go back home
  • After so many sessions, and not taking the time to stop to integrate, after years, his body was screaming for community, and he felt this deep existential sadness and felt as if he was just waiting to die
    • It took 10 years to integrate his deep exploration, and to finally feel okay and comfortable again in his body suit and in this life
  • The universe is an infinite ocean of possibilities, we will never reach the end
  • “The collective psyche is being cosmically stimulated by the trauma that we are entering into” -Chris

Links

Articles 

LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven

Chrisbache.com – future website

About Chris

Christopher M. Bache is professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An award-winning teacher, Chris’ work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. Chris has written three books translated into six languages: Lifecycles – a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn – a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy and collective consciousness; and The Living Classroom, an exploration of teaching and collective fields of consciousness. His new book is Diamonds from Heaven ~ LSD and the Mind of the Universe (2019).

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Peter H. Addy PhD – Salvia: Research and Therapeutic Use

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Addy, Licensed Mental Health Counselor out of Washington. In the show, they talk about the research and therapeutic use of Salvia.

3 Key Points:

  1. Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports, although there are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant.
  2. In a recreational setting, Salvia is usually smoked, but in the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method.
  3. The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now. It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research.

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Show Notes

About Peter

  • Peter helped found the Yale Psychedelic Speaker Series
    • The main goal was to normalize talking about psychedelic research as research
  • Peter joined the pharmacology lab for his post doctoral research on Salvia
    • The team was mainly studying THC but were also studying Ketamine
    • He wanted to bring in MDMA and Psilocybin research
  • Peter attended The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
    • As a psychologist, Peter focused heavily on feedback and experience

Transpersonal Psychology

  • It all started when Peter stumbled across a dusty book in the library as a Freshman, States of Consciousness by Charles Tart
    The book talked a lot about meditation
  • Joe says he has been practicing non-drug transpersonal states (breathwork) for years
  • You can have a psychedelic experience without drugs, and you can also take psychedelics and not have the psychedelic experience at all, it’s not about the drug
    • “Everyone has an innate desire towards transcending who they are, moving towards wholeness, and personal and societal transformation” – Peter
  • “If I’m kind, then people around me are more likely to be kind, it’s about the transformation of groups and societies than about having a cool trick” – Peter

Salvia

  • “Psychedelic Assisted Psychotherapy is proven to do a lot of really good things, but it’s not the only way and it’s not necessarily the right way. There are wrong ways to do it, but not one culture owns this experience.” – Peter
  • “Having a healthy critique of science in the modern world is helpful because its a series of provisional truths, it’s a good tool to get closer to objective reality, but its not perfect, it’s all we have so far” – Joe
  • Peter says that art is an amazing tool as well
    • Verbal language is limiting, he has seen images that can convey an experience way better than words can
  • Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports
    • There are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant
  • There was going to be a bill to make Salvia illegal in 2008 or 2009
    • Now it’s just illegal for minors

Salvia Study

  • Peter recruited 30 people who had all used psychedelics
  • He used a controlled set, setting and intention
  • He used either a Salvia extract or just the unadulterated leaf
    • No one in the real world is using Salvinorin A, they are smoking the leaf or using extracts of the leaf
  • The participants smoked it when they desired, Peter was not enforcing the smoking
    • It was a very relaxed setting
  • Once the participants smoked, they then had an experience for 10 minutes, and then he came together with them and just listened to their experience
    • 2 people got up and moved, the rest just sat there in the experience
  • Interoception (the inner feelings of your body) is the internal form of proprioception (the feeling of your body in space)
  • Every time you smoke something it is going to hit you quickly and be over quickly
    • By the time you realize what’s going on in a Salvia experience, you’re already on your way out
    • In the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method

Advice

  • The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now
  • It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research
    • Peter says if you do get funding, attach it to something else
    • MDMA research didn’t just begin to ‘see what it could help’, PTSD sucks, and there isn’t a whole lot that works to treat it, but MDMA does and it just happens to be a type of psychedelic

Links

Website

About Peter

Peter is both a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Washington and a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oregon. He earned a PhD in Clinical Psychology from Sofia University in 2011, including certification in biofeedback and Process Oriented Psychodrama. There, he studied non-ordinary states of consciousness, holistic and all-encompassing views of a person, and ways that these experiences can transform a person and society. Peter then engaged in post-degree specialty training at Danville State Hospital, Yale University School of Medicine, and the Connecticut Mental Health Center. As faculty at Yale University he engaged in research and training. Some of his clinical training is in mindfulness-based therapies, Motivational Interviewing, and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He also discovered a passion for data management and security which he brings with him to his online therapy practice.


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Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis – 5-MEO-DMT: Facilitation Harms, Oneness and Privilege

In today’s episode, Joe visits Naropa in Boulder, CO to sit down with Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis. Alan is a Clinical Psychology Professor at Ohio State and Rafael is a legal Psychedelic Therapist operating out of Innate Path in Colorado.

3 Key Points:

  1. Facilitation is a huge problem in the 5-MEO-DMT space. Some people take it without the intention of working on it afterward, they are commonly given too much, and also in a poor context. This recipe of poor facilitation and guidance leads to a lot of challenging experiences and a lot of integration work.
  2. The feeling of oneness typically arises when taking 5-MEO-DMT. It can be great for some, but for others, it can be extremely overwhelming and harmful when not provided the correct intention, context and tools to work through it.
  3. Privilege is a huge issue in the psychedelic space. The goal in this space is to make everyone’s voice heard, not just those of privilege.

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Show Notes

Rafael

  • Rafael studied Mental Health Counseling at the University of Wyoming
  • He is currently at Innate Path in Lakewood, CO doing Ketamine and Cannabis assisted Psychotherapy

Alan

  • Alan is on the Faculty at John’s Hopkins
  • He is a Clinical Psychologist
  • He is currently doing clinical research on psychoactive substances

5-MEO-DMT

  • It is a psychoactive substance that comes from the Sonoran Desert Toad
  • It’s a fast acting and powerful psychedelic substance that is challenging to predict
    • Some have amazing, beautiful and transcendent experiences, but it also has the ability to bring up challenging and dark things to deal with
  • It isn’t as visual as other psychedelics, it has to deal a lot more with consciousness itself
  • “It may feel like being shot right into the center of love, or the center of the universe” – Alan
  • DMT can be more visual, while 5-MEO-DMT can be more spiritual, not that they can’t dip into each other

5-MEO-DMT Harms

  • Alan did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT at Horizons
  • There are a lot of harms when using 5-MEO-DMT
  • Both Alan and Rafael have been contacted numerous times about looking for facilitators or about trying to integrate massive and difficult experiences
  • An ego death, in the right context, can be transformative, but in the wrong context, can be extremely harmful.
  • The facilitators are the problem
    • If the facilitators are delivering the medicine in a shamanic practice, and the people using it are coming from a Western mindset, then with goals misaligned, there can be some major issues
    • People have these grand, god-like experiences when using psychedelics, then feel like they need to become shamans and facilitate these experiences for others and have literally no clue or education on how to properly care for these people using the Toad
  • Joe says facilitators commonly overdose their users because the toad venom is hard to predict potency
  • Alan says that the fear response needs to be initiated when extracting the venom from the toad
    • He thinks it can come up as a huge problem when using 5-MEO-DMT from a fear-stricken animal
    • Alan says there is a lot of reports of feeling abducted by aliens, and it could be related to the fear response from the toad being hunted for its venom
    • It’s a similar concept to the traumatization of any other animal by the way it is killed and then eating the meat of that traumatized animal
  • On average, there is roughly 10-20% of 5-MEO-DMT in the venom

Oneness

  • When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, it takes a lot of detailed integration
    • When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, that would also mean that they experience the suffering of everything around them
  • When the rational mind comes back online, if the person does not decide to take action, it can be seriously overwhelming to feel that oneness
    • Integration has part to do with the experience but then the other part is everything before it, our family, relationships, job, our personality, etc.
    • “Yeah its cool that we are one with the universe, but so is everything else” – Rafael

Power and Privilege

  • Privilege means having a voice, but it also means position in society, gender, race etc
  • In psychedelics, for so long, it has been so hard to find a voice
    • But with this psychedelic renaissance, it has become so much easier to speak up about psychedelic use, research, etc
  • The people within the scientific community get put on a pedestal to speak about psychedelic research
  • Alan says his goal as someone in the middle of the research role, is to create community, to bring every voice to be heard
  • Being connected to psychedelics in anyway, used to mean prosecution
    • There are still imbalances that need to be looked at
  • The psychedelic renaissance is a chance to look at systemic issues
  • We need to determine what our personal values are, and values of the whole community, and whether or not they are aligned

Final Thoughts

  • Alan says his goal is to continue having a voice and allowing others’ voices to be heard in this space
  • Rafael says his goal is to make this therapy more available to those who can benefit from it and not just for the privileged

Links

Source Research Foundation

5 MEO DMT Forum

About Rafael Lancelotta

Rafael is a graduate from the University of Wyoming in Mental Health Counseling. He has worked as a wilderness therapy guide with adolescents and young adults experiencing a wide range of emotional and psychological challenges. He has also worked as a counselor at the Behavioral Health Services unit of a psychiatric hospital treating severe and persistent mental illness and medically supervised drug and alcohol detox. He has worked on several research projects studying the epidemiology of 5-MeO-DMT use in the global population and is also the administrator of 5meodmt.org, an online forum dedicated to hosting community discussions on harm reduction, integration, and safe practices around 5-MeO-DMT use. He is interested in the use of psychedelics paired with therapy for increased resiliency, mental health, and openness. He believes that the counseling relationship is essential to deepen, enhance, and actualize the benefits of psychedelic-assisted therapy. He is passionate about finding ways to make psychedelic-assisted therapies available to all those who may benefit from it as well as helping to raise awareness as to responsible clinical applications of psychedelics/entheogens.

About Alan Kooi Davis

Dr. Alan K Davis is an Assistant Professor of Social Work at The Ohio State University and an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Psychedelic Research Unit at Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Davis’s clinical experience includes working with people diagnosed with trauma-based psychological problems such as addiction, PTSD, depression, and anxiety. His clinical expertise includes providing evidenced-based treatments such as motivational interviewing, cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy. Consistent with his clinical interests, his research interests and expertise focus on contributing to the knowledge of and ability to help those suffering with substance use and mental health problems, understanding how to improve clinical outcomes through examining new treatments, and developing ways to conceptualize substance use and mental health problems through a strengths-based approach.

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Mike Jay – Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic

In today’s episode, Joe interviews Mike Jay, Author of the book, Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic. In the show they discuss Mescaline’s origins and the history of Peyote use.

3 Key Points:

  1. Mike Jay is a Cultural Historian and Author whose topics include science, medicine, drugs, madness, literature and radical politics.

  2. Mike’s recent book, Mescaline, is a definitive history of mescaline that explores its mind-altering effects across cultures, from ancient America to western modernity.

  3. Over time, Peyote has been used by spiritual seekers, by psychologists investigating the secrets of consciousness, artists exploring the creative process, and by psychiatrists.

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Show Notes

About Mike

  • Mike Jay is a freelance writer, an author and cultural historian
  • Mike has been interested in Mescaline for a really long time

Indigenous Use

  • James Mooney is a crucial figure in the transition from indigenous use of peyote to the more current applications
  • The New Deal made religions respected, protected under the First Amendment for freedom of worship

History

  • There is a ton of literature before the 60’s on psychedelic use
  • It was obvious that if people were interested in psychoactive drugs, they would take it themselves
  • Back then, science was much more proactive than it is today, but it is becoming more popular again

Peyote Experience

  • It’s hard to find an ethical source of Peyote
  • Mike says its unpleasant but warm and tingly and euphoric
  • By 1970, Mescaline was this legendary substance, but it was hard to find on the streets unless you knew an underground chemist
  • On the Erowid site, they have a bulletin that the DEA created about all of the street drug seizures
    He wrote a book 20 years ago called Emperors of Dreams
  • 2CB is not as intense as Mescaline
  • Mescaline is a phenethylamine
  • It does not cross the blood brain barrier as easily. So you need to take more of it
    • It is a body and mind drug

Indigenous Use

  • The Comanches were in a reservation in the Wichita mountains
  • He was notified by the Comanches on some history
    • He went to meet with them, and they told him stories on the history
    • Peyote use originated inside of a Tipi
    • “The way that we see psychedelics in modern Western culture, is not the only way of thinking about it:” – Mike

Native American Church

  • There is an interesting thing that happened between Mexican/South American Shamanic practice and Native American Church
    • In the ceremony, the facilitator is made to not ask like a priest, everyone is their own priest
    • It is a healing modality for everybody
  • The very first peyote experiences in the west encouraged artists to make art
  • Salvador Dali was apparently anti-drug use
    • The surrealist movement had a number of rules
  • Huichol art is a very psychedelic inspired art

The plant

  • Peyote is so fast growing, in some places it is growing naturally
  • San Pedro is way more sustainable than Peyote
  • There is a lot of demand for Peyote currently
  • Joe says he thinks that Peyote is not scheduled in Canada

Accounts

  • The western story is full of first-person experiencesIts based on the personal
    • experiences and visions
  • In the indigenous accounts, there are very little stories on experience or personal matters, its more recording on the collective experience

Links

Website

Twitter

About Mike

Mike Jay is a leading specialist in the study of drugs across history and cultures. The author of Artificial Paradises, Emperors of Dreams, and The Atmosphere of Heaven, his critical writing on drugs has appeared in many publications, including The Guardian, The Telegraph, and The International Journal of Drug Policy. He sits on the editorial board of the addiction journal Drugs and Alcohol Today and on the board of the Transform Drug Policy Foundation. He lives in England.


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Dena Justice – Neuro Linguistic Programming and Non-ordinary States of Consciousness

In this episode, Joe interviews Dena Justice from the Ecstatic Collective. Dena and Joe talk about Neuro Linguistic Programming and how it is beneficial to use with non-ordinary states of consciousness.

3 Key Points:

  1. NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming. Dena Justice is a Lifestyle Design Strategist that uses NLP to help people create their dream, ecstatic life.
  2. 93% of communication happens at the subconscious level. NLP training focuses on how we use communication tools to help people in non-ordinary states of consciousness.
  3. Perception is Projection. Our belief of someone else, is a projection of ourselves onto them.

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Show Notes

About Dena

  • Dena grew up with NLP in her life
  • NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming
  • “You get to create your reality, what are you choosing consciously?” – Dena
  • She became impacted by Tony Robbin’s events, and decided to teach NLP
  • NLP is about language and communication and things that are happening subconsciously
    • 93% of communication happens at the unconscious level

Neuro Linguistic Programming

  • Perception is projection
    • “If I have a belief about someone else, that is my projection of myself onto them” – Dena
  • The big no-no in NLP is to say things like don’t or not
    • Say it the way you intend it
    • What messages do you want to enforce when in an altered state? You want it to be positive
    • “What is someone creating in their reality based on their unconscious communication?” – Dena
  • It’s important to take NLP and combine it with non-ordinary states because they are more powerful together than the sum of them separately
    • The ‘aha’ moment happens because we have neural networks in every single cell in our body
    • Resistance is always a sign of a breakthrough
  • Virginia Satir  is known for translating people’s representational systems
    • In the Hierarchy of Ideas, Virginia was all about ‘chunking down’
    • When someone says “I’m upset” then you ask “how specifically?”
  • On the opposing side, Milton Erickson focuses on abstraction, chunking higher to get to trance
    • Dena uses the Milton model of hypnosis to bring people into trance states

NLP Training

  • Dena offers NLP training that focuses on how we use communication tools to help people in non-ordinary states of consciousness
    • It’s so important to understand the 93% of communication that is happening at an unconscious level
  • Timeline therapy is a process that utilizes the unconscious mind to get rid of negative emotions such as anger, sadness and guilt
  • Every part of her training concludes with NLP coaching
  • The Milton model and hypnosis is really beneficial when focusing on its delivery specifically
    • Hypnosis is important because its using everyday words but with intention and volition to put people into a trance state
    • We reduce resistance in communication when we move up in abstraction

Links

Website

About Dena Justice

As a master manifester, Dena has created a beautiful life for herself. She been financially responsible since age 15 including putting herself through college, two masters degrees and purchasing her own home in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has made over $1M in her life through a fulfilling career as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor and coach working with thousands of people across the country. She loved her career, yet hit a point where she felt empty. Near the top of her career ladder, she was a classic case of a high performer and leader hitting burnout. She chose a powerful pivot out of her J-O-B and into her own business. Now, she helps other high performers who have hit burnout and are scared to admit they’ve hit a plateau or a wall. She helps them get the eff out of their own way and move to the next level to increase their impact so they feel fulfilled and inspired again, as well as helping them create more wealth and the relationships they want in their lives. She helps people experience new levels of success, increase/improve focus and performance, abolish FOMO, evolve communication skills, develop transformational leadership skills, create amazing relationships, increase financial abundance and live life on their own terms.

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Raquel Bennett – KRIYA Conference Recap: Ketamine in Psychiatry and Psychotherapy

In this episode, Kyle sits down with Raquel Bennett to recap on the KRIYA Conference. Kyle attended the conference, which is to bring people together with dedication to understanding the better use of Ketamine.

3 Key Points:

  1. The more recent KRIYA Conference was the last of its kind. The goal is to make information on ketamine more accessible to more people in the future.
  2. At KRIYA Institute, they believe that there is not one right way to use ketamine, different patients are best served by different treatment strategies.
  3. Intramuscular ketamine is usually 93% bioavailable, while nasal and lozenge based ketamine is usually only 40% bioavailable. The less variability the better when working with a powerful medicine for therapy.

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Show Notes

KRIYA

  • KRIYA is an international conference focused on ketamine and its therapeutic potential
    • The goal of KRIYA is to get people of all different ketamine backgrounds in the same room
    • Different people benefit from different things, and different doses and methods matter
  • There is a symbiotic relationship between therapeutic and spiritual practice of ketamine
  • She wanted to create a place where researchers and clinicians could come together
    • This last conference was the last one
    • The conference is CME accredited, which means physicians can get units for their education
    • Raquel picks people from different backgrounds, therapists who use low dose ketamine for therapy, to those who do full blown spiritual work with ketamine
  • Ketamine is a relational medicine – which is about having a relationship with the substance

Ketamine Therapy

  • Ketamine Therapy Lessons
    • Wisdom Teaching
    • A Loving Relationship
    • The Medicine
  • The medicine is adjunct to the entire process, it’s not just about the ketamine, it’s about the relationships, the wisdom teaching, etc. And each are powerful on their own, and even more powerful when all combined
    • When people are using ketamine in absence from the other components, people are not getting the full effect that they could
  • “Ketamine when done correctly, when administered in the right setting, with the correct support, enhances resilience.” – Raquel
  • Therapy is an important mechanism to teach coping skills needed in psychotherapy

Highlights of KRIYA

  • When Raquel first started running this conference in 2015, the clinicians were afraid to even come, they were afraid to talk about Ketamine
    • This past year, there were hundreds of applicants and so much excitement around talking about ketamine
  • In 2014, a whole bunch of psychiatrists stood up and said they have been using ketamine for their patients and it worked
  • A doctor talked about combining meditation with ketamine to heal substance use disorder
    • When ketamine is offered in a structured context, its highly beneficial
  • Another doctor talked about using ketamine to treat those who are acutely suicidal
    • People who are severely psychiatrically distressed benefit from ketamine treatment
  • Another doctor talked about combining ketamine with EMDR to treat patients with PTSD

Bioavailability

  • Raquel says she prefers intramuscular ketamine over lozenges
    • It’s the cheapest way of doing it
    • Its super precise, you have a great control of the bioavailability of the ketamine to the patient
  • With IM, 93% is bioavailable
  • With nasal and lozenge ketamine, usually 40% makes it to the patient’s brain, which is a huge range of variability when working with a powerful medicine

Progression

  • Clinicians are on the fence for prescribing for at home use
  • A doctor talked about 4 different tiers of ketamine experiences related to dosage
  • Other doctors talked about measurement tools of pre and post experience ways to take data when administering ketamine to patients
  • There is a lot of ketamine use outside of the medical context
    • The field is stuck in the question “Should ketamine be allowed to be used by people who aren’t psychiatrically fragile?”
  • Everything good that is going to come out of ketamine usage and assisted therapy, will come
    • It’s a slow process, but it is all moving forward

Final Thoughts

  • Raquel encourages people to are interested with using ketamine in therapy to get together regionally and learn from each other
  • She is thinking about creating a video series, as well as a retreat for ketamine providers
  • The KRIYA Conference is over, but the KRIYA Institute isn’t going anywhere
    • She is looking at ways to get the information out faster and to more people, than to limit it just to conference attendees

Links

Website

About Raquel Bennett

Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.


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Andy Frasco – Finding Balance with Psychedelics and other Substances as a Touring Musician

In today’s episode, Joe sits down with Andy Frasco, a touring rock musician with the band, Andy Frasco and the UN. In the show, they cover what is it like to be a touring rock musician with drugs so available and how to live more healthfully in the space.

3 Key Points:

  1. Andy Frasco is a talented, touring music artist a part of the band, Andy Frasco and the UN, as well as a podcast show host. Andy uses psychedelics to help cope with the anxiety that the rock star lifestyle brings.
  2. Psychedelics open us up to the possibility that everything we know is wrong. Finding truth and clarity for some people is hard, and people resort to alcohol and other harmful behaviors to suppress the painful reality we live in.
  3. Cocaine and uppers only keep a rock star up for so long. It keeps you awake for the partying, but it suppresses all the stresses of the lifestyle. Psychedelics and meditation can help with the balance needed in a stressful, lifestyle of traveling and fame.

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Show Notes

Intro

  • Joe attended a bunch of his live shows and was able to catch up with Andy in his hotel room while he was in town
  • Life is tough for a traveling entertainer, so the healthier they are, the better they are to perform for their audience
  • Andy Frasco’s World Saving Podcast

Micro-dosing

  • Microdosing is typically 6 weeks on, two weeks off, dosing every 3 days
  • 1/10-3/10ths of a gram (of mushrooms) is the typical microdose
    • Once you feel it, it’s more of a macro-dose
  • Paul Stamets has made mushrooms popular

Mushroom Evolution

  • Mushrooms did not leave a mark on bone structure, so it’s hard to tell if they actually made a difference in human evolution
    • Drugs have been around for a long time, and people in the past have definitely used them
  • There are studies of mushrooms helping to grow nerve cells and brain neurons back
  • We are only 50-100 years in on science
    “(Psychedelics) open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong.” -Terence McKenna
  • Joe says he’s been to a therapist a bunch of times, and he says he has enjoyed it
    • Joe’s main form of therapy has been Breathwork
    • His most intense experiences have been just as powerful as his Ayahuasca experience

About Andy

  • Andy says he is open about taking psychedelics, he takes mushrooms, he doesn’t really use cocaine
    • He says he feels more anxious when he isn’t taking them than when he is
    • He says he gets really anxious on weed now as he gets older
  • Psychedelics show us a lot of truths
  • “We are all trying to figure out life, it’s hard. Psychedelics help us create a better relationship with our mind.” – Andy
  • Andy says he has been anxious his whole life
    • He has had very scary panic attacks
    • He became addicted to sex as a crutch for his anxiety
    • He woke up one day, and sex didn’t give him the thrill anymore
    • Andy started in the music industry because rock stars get the chicks
  • Teen years are just about being super insecure about everything
    • Shame is a huge influence on our relationships with other people
  • “The majority of effects from drug use for people are good.” – a quote from Carl Hart, a Psychology Professor who studies drug use
  • Andy’s first psychedelic experience was an 8th of mushrooms at 18 years old

Rock Star Lifestyle

  • Andy says he used to be really into coke because he just had to stay up for the shows
    • But he says he doesn’t take anything anymore that feels like speed
    • He was coping his exhaustion with drugs and alcohol
  • “When you’re in a band you’re the party for one day of the year in that city.” – Andy
    • Life for a rock star can’t just be the 2 hour show, the trick is figuring out how to be mindful for the other 14 hours of the day after the party
    • The lifestyle is really hard, its very common to use drugs, sex and alcohol to suppress it
    • Humans were not designed for this
  • Andy has begun using transcendental meditation to help with this lifestyle
  • He also mentions having his first DMT experience recently

Links

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About Andy Frasco

Andy Frasco, a Los Angeles, CA native singer, songwriter, band maestro, entrepreneur, party starter and everyday hustler, tours with his band, “The U.N.” The music has elements of Soul, Funk, Rock and Roots and the shows have been described as orchestrated chaos, an overall great time. Frasco average 200+ dates a year, touring the country dozens of times, creating a loyal following everywhere he goes.


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Kyle and Joe – Q&A: The Many Uses of Psychedelics

In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to cover questions from listeners of the show. They discuss topics that include psychedelic use for exorcisms, cluster headaches, athletic performance, processing grief and more.

3 Key Points:

  1. There are a few examples where psychedelics are used to increase athletic performance. Psychedelics can also be used to help realign those who are using sports as a form of distraction from internalized issues.
  2. When eliminating variables for psilocybin consistency in mushrooms for therapeutic use, freeze drying helps. But there are so many variables in mushrooms versus synthesized psilocybin.
  3. When addressing the sustainability of the Toad, according to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT

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Show Notes

Kratom Warning

  • Joe brings up an issue that was brought up to him by a physician from the Wholeness Center, Dr. Craig Heacock, out of Fort Collins, CO
  • Dr. Heacock warns about Kratom
    • It is safer than opioids, but it can be physically addictive and getting off of it can be horrible
    • Kratom withdrawal closely imitates opioid withdrawal
    • The receptor site activity is the same as opioid pills

Using Psychedelics for an Exorcism

  • Kyle thinks of shamanic uses for plant medicines, and with the idea of purging and spiritual emergence, working in non-ordinary states can exacerbate these states and maybe help with this kind of work
  • Joe and Kyle go into writings from Stan Grof, explaining the physical appearance of those going through LSD psychotherapy or breathwork, and how it assimilates to an ‘exorcism’ of releasing the bad
  • The purging during a psychedelic experience may feel evil, or alien
  • Joe and Kyle say, do not perform an exorcism, leave it to the trained people

Treating Cluster Headaches with Psychedelics

  • Cluster Busters is an organization for the research on cluster headaches
  • LSD works for some as well as oxygen treatments work for others
  • We know a lot more about migraines than cluster headaches
    • The migraine is where neurons in the brain start misfiring and create a firing storm

How can Psilocybin Mushrooms be Standardized in Production for Therapeutic Use?

  • Joe says the practical solution is to have a really large amount of psilocybe cubensis, all blended up, and then split in even doses
  • There are potency differences between species, strains, etc
  • There are so many variances with mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin
  • Freeze drying also promotes close to 0% loss of psilocybin when drying mushrooms

Psychedelics and Athletic Performance

  • There may be psychological blocks that are getting in the way of a person reaching the peak performance of their genome
    • It could be trauma, or psychological blocks
  • Athletic performance could be a distraction from what you’re really here to do
    • Athletes have a lot of dysfunctional behavior
    • Psychedelics may show us our bad behavior and help us align
  • Kyle says he had this passion to snowboard and dedicate his life to snowboarding, and then he received a message in journeywork that told him snowboarding is simply a hobby and he needs to focus his life on other things
  • “Sports are a great way to cover up our emotions” – Joe
  • Kyle mentions tow other episodes that cover similar topics
    Ben Eddy
    Shane Lemaster

How to get the Ball Rolling on Psychedelic Liberty

  • Start a club
    • Joe says he’s been incubating a Psychedelic Club in Phoenix
  • Clubs are great for harm reduction

Is There a Humane or Conservative Way to Harvest the Toad Without Disrupting its Habitat?

  • Joe says yes, roadkill, pick them up off the road
  • If you touch a living one, there is a chance you’ll be doing harm
    • Even touching the toad can transmit harmful fungus to them
  • According to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT

How Psychedelics Might help with Processing Grief

  • Kyle says when he thinks about grief, he thinks about trauma
    • Psychedelics may be really beneficial when treating trauma
  • Kyle says he loves breathwork, because it creates the container to process things and even just simply cry
  • Kyle recommends a really great book on grieving, The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise by Martin Prechtel
  • Our culture does not contain grief very well
  • A lot of people internalize it instead of breaking down and letting it go

Links

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Get a 30 day free trail at Audible

About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.


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Jac Harrison – DMT Inspired Music: How DMT Mimics The Near-Death Experience

In this episode, Kyle sits down with Jac Harrison, a grammy nominated music producer. Kyle and Jac talk about music as therapy, how DMT mimics the near death experience, and how Jac produces music based on frequencies of mystical experiences.

3 Key Points:

  1. Jac shares his story about his near death experience, and how DMT has been a therapeutic option for him to cope with his crippling anxiety and PTSD.
  2. Jac is a music producer, who uses frequencies from mystical experiences to produce music. His music helps people with addiction, sleep issues, anxiety, and more.
  3. Music is not an FDA approved medicine, but if there is music that tricks your mind into thinking you have taken a medicine, then it should be an option for those suffering.

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Show Notes

About Jac

  • In 2008, Jac was newly married with a baby on the way
  • He needed a new job, and accepted one with Whole Foods Magazine
  • Around 2011, the owner of the company became ill, and gave his company to his daughter, who was awful
  • Jac said that he knew something had to change
  • He started his music career in 1993, went under a lot of stress, and went through a divorce
    • Everything started to go okay with his music career, money was pouring in
  • The first album Jac produced was the Musicians Collection Project
  • He had a ton of anxiety after the divorce, and had high blood pressure
    • He took some cold medicine, on top of his blood pressure medicine, totally forgot about it, then decided to have a glass of wine with a friend
    • The next thing he knew, he was in an ambulance getting his chest pounded on
    • They told him he was in and out all night, and practically died
  • After this near death experience, he felt amazing!
    • But the feeling of greatness only lasted about 3 weeks, and then his anxiety came back, and it was crippling

A Synchronistic Event

  • Jac says he doesn’t believe in magic or witchcraft or any woo woo
  • For his 39th birthday, he was working a trade show
  • He ran around his hotel in Las Vegas, screaming that he felt he was going to die
    • He didn’t know how, but he could feel it
    • Everyone thought he was crazy
  • Moments later, was the shooting right outside of his hotel
    • It was the Las Vegas shooting
  • He does believe in coincidence
    • He had this overwhelming feeling that something bad was going to happen, it was his intuition

Understanding the Experience

  • After trying to figure out what this all meant, he took a 2000mg bar of chocolate to blast off, trying to relive his near death experience
    • He said, there was a lot of frequency, and as a musician, he felt like he could mimic it
    • His first album, and first song on the album, Relief, was about his experience when he died
    • His music is found at MindToyBox
    • Each song he did after that, catalogs the DMT experience he had
  • “An old projector TV, I had one for a while, it was great. The light came on and told me I needed to change the bulb. I changed the bulb and saw in a new and clear way forever. That’s what DMT is like.” – Jac
  • Kyle says that when he attended COSM for the DMT Spirit Molecule release party, Rick Strassman was there and said that the idea that DMT comes out of the pineal gland is just a hypothesis, and people took it and ran with it as truth

Frequency for Healing

  • After he smoked DMT, he heard this humming, and so he started humming and recording it as a frequency for the album
  • He took opium, and then figured out the frequency that substance performs at
    • He wrote music, based on the mathematical equation on how opium works and releases
    • He says it has helped others detox off of opium
  • Jac cant take mushrooms because he is allergic, so he takes DMT
  • Jac worked with a man who had gone through a ton of trauma, he had gone through combat
    • He kept reliving his combat trauma when he would try to go asleep
    • He smoked DMT, and really relived the experience, and was able to let go of it after that
    • “Your mind is a bitch.” – Jac
    • “If you can lock onto a memory, and dissociate it with something, and re-associate it with something else, Every time you can go back to that memory,you can relive it in a way that it’s tolerable, and get over it.” – Jac
  • Jac says without this, he would not be able to function, and he would be institutionalized
  • Jac’s music is Alex Grey’s form of art creation
  • It is made to go with journeywork experiences
    • It is supposed to mimic taking a pill, so you don’t need to take the actual pill
    • It is supposed to guide people when taking different psychedelics
    • His tracks match the frequency of specific psychedelics

Malta Hypogeum

  • The Malta Hypogeum, the oracle chamber, is a cave with naturally occurring frequencies
  • Raymond Reif is an underestimated person in history
    • He beat cancer using frequencies in the 30’s and 40’s
  • “If we’re not going to someone to get drugs for something that we need drugs for, and solving our problems using plant based medicines, music therapy, and frequencies, we are much better off.” – Jac
  • Jac came across psychedelics when trying to treat crippling anxiety
    • Kyle is the first person he has told this NDE story to
  • Alzheimers is not a neurological problem, it’s a perception problem
    • Psychedelic medicine should be used for research to treat cognitive health problems, PTSD, alzheimers, etc
  • “If the earth gives us something for our body, we should be able to take that at the same time we are able to take modern medicine.” – Jac
  • Jac says that he started doing this type of work as more of an Atheist, and after the psychedelic experiences, he says he has become more spiritual

Intuition

  • Jac says that his intuition and discernment came after his near death experience
    • Kyle says that this happens after mystical experiences, we become more in tune with what is going on around us
    • “I believe that we have something in us, that is triggered, when we have a fear of death.” – Jac

Final thoughts

  • Jac recommends Relief as the first track for listeners
  • He extends himself to people who are heavily anxious, have severe PTSD, or depressed, to come to him, and he will make music for them
  • He said that this is not medicine, but if there is music that tricks your mind into thinking you have taken a medicine, then it should be an option for those suffering

Links

Website

About Jac Harrison

Having spent most of his adolescent life medicated to treat ADD/ADHD, Jac developed a dependency on the medications and could not function without them. When he stopped using them, his anxiety was so bad that he was diagnosed with PTSD in 2009; so he took his love for music with his understanding of mathematics and developed music to help himself get off all the medication. Mind Toy Box is the result of his work.


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Kyle Buller and Joe Moore – Exploring Psychedelic Integration and Coaching

In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to explore psychedelic integration. They cover different frameworks, resources and benefits of integration and coaching services.

3 Key Points:

  1. Integration is commonly confused as post-session only, but it includes pre-session, self care, and really begins at the point you decide to engage in self-work.
  2. It is important to remember the GPA framework when determining where you are at in the integration process, G – grounding, P – processing, A – action.
  3. Psychedelics Today offers many resources to assist with the integration process; Navigating Psychedelics Online Course (and Live Course), Coaching and Integration Calls, and books, Trip Journal and Integration Workbook.

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Navigating PsychedelicsTrip JournalIntegration Workbook

Show Notes

Updates

  • Kyle will be attending the ACISTE Conference this November
    • He is speaking and doing a breakout session with Michelle Hobart
    • Kyle is going to present on using technology for support with spiritual emergence
  • Kyle and Joe will not be offering any major workshops until spring.
  • They will be attending a conference in Exeter UK – Psychedelics and Philosophy

Psychedelic Integration

  • Kyle says his near death experience shows up in his life everyday
  • Integration is not only post session, it is also pre-session
  • Integration, at its root means bringing parts together into wholeness
  • Joe says you don’t need support to do integration, although it is helpful
  • Kyle’s analogy of a psychedelic experience as a big hallway with a lot of doors, and a ton of magical stuff, even scary monsters, are coming through the doors and wandering through the halls
    • The goal is to realize and say “this is a part of me” and learn to be okay with all of the stuff in the hall
  • Self care works until it doesn’t, and that is when integration comes in

Integration Framework

  • Kyle uses a framework and asks, what is your GPA?
    • G – grounding, post session, how are we getting re-connected to ourselves?
    • P – processing, once energy feels stable and centered, how can we process the material? It could mean journaling, therapy, body or somatic work, breathwork, yoga, etc.
    • A – action, moving it forward, breaking the leanings down into goals of things to work on
    • Kyle says that these things do not need to be done in order necessarily, but its a good framework to check in after an experience and see where you’re at
  • Joe reminds listeners of ‘pre-hab’, that preparation can make a world of a difference and weigh a lot more than post work in a lot of cases
  • “Life is integration, call your mom, pay your rent.” – Joe
  • Joe mentions the quote that “the opposite of addiction is connection”
  • Climate change can bring up a lot of existential dread, the connection piece, and other topics can be addressed with psychedelic integration

Resources

  • The Psychedelics Today, Navigating Psychedelics Course is a great way to learn more about integration
  • We offer two books, the Trip Journal and the Integration Workbook
  • We also offer Psychedelic Integration coaching calls and services
  • You don’t need an integration coach all the time, but for someone to just be there helps
  • If you have a retreat planned, integration and coaching can really help mitigate the risks
  • Integration within the psychedelic community is somewhat understood
    • Kyle says he gets tons of emails asking for medicine sessions
    • Psychedelic Integration and coaching services do not include medicine or guiding or providing of medicine, its simply pre and post session guidance
    • Psychedelics Today does not suggest underground or illegal psychedelic sessions/therapy and makes a significant effort to be ignorant of underground work, there are legal options to choose from

Links

Psychedelics Today

Kyle Buller and Joe Moore

About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.


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Kyle and Joe – Horizons Highlights: Perspectives on Psychedelics

In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to cover highlights from the Horizons Conference. In the show, they discuss the presentations and topics they heard at the conference.

3 Key Points:

  1. Joe and Kyle attended Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics Conference in NYC, it is a forum that examines the role of psychedelic drugs and plant medicines in science, medicine, culture and spirituality.
  2. Carl Hart gave a compelling talk; Dispelling the Lies that the Psychedelic Community believes about Drugs. Greater than 80% of the effects of drugs used are positive.
  3. Another popular topic was on the economics around psychedelics, and discussion on companies trying to monopolize on psychedelics.

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Show Notes

Horizons

  • Kyle mentions he loves to attend because it’s a great social event to connect with others interested or involved in the psychedelic field
  • Kyle says the videos of the talks from the conference will be released soon
  • They presented neuro-imaging data

5-MEO-DMT

  • Dr. Alan Davis did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT and its challenges
    • People have a hard time letting go into the experience because its so fast and overwhelming
  • He talked about a term, reactivation, similar to flashbacks that happen between 1-2 weeks after the experience
    • People were reporting it as positive experiences, 80% of people enjoyed the reactivations
  • He did say that there were some bad players in the 5-MEO-DMT space
    • There is no control in the dosing in underground facilitation
    • A lot of people eyeball their dosage in 5-MEO-DMT
    • Joe suggests to buy a milligram scale

Carl Hart

  • Carl Hart did a talk; Dispelling the Lies that the Psychedelic Community believes about drugs
    • Greater than 80% of the effects of drugs used are positive
  • PCP is a psychedelic drug, but the psychedelic community chooses not to own it
  • Ketamine was derived from PCP
  • Hamilton Morris said that no drug is bad, it comes down to the dose and how its being used
    • Poison can be a medicine, and medicine can be a poison, it all depends on dose
  • No drug should be illegal, drug scheduling should just go away
  • Some states are starting to ban private prisons
  • Joe says the drug war is the war on race, the war on class, etc
    • Joe suggests looking up the Portugal drug law; less overdoses, less HIV, less incarceration, etc
  • Kyle mentions that in some cultures they would drink alcohol to get into a trance state and dance around all night and then chill for 3 days afterward because they would all be recovering from the hangover

Talks and Topics

  • Shelby and Madison, co founders from Doubleblind Magazine did a talk
  • Fiona Misham did a talk on the use of psychedelics for festivals and fun
    • She talked about having on-site drug testing facilities and how they heighten safety
    • In 2018 in Europe the MDMA contents were tested at 168milligrams
    • 1 in 5 substances are mis-sold
    • 1 in 20 MDMA samples were long lasting N-ethylpentylone, a drug that keeps you up for 3 days straight
  • There was also an Economics panel
    • Kyle says it was a heavy and hot debate
    • There was a lot of conversation on companies making money on psychedelics
    • There was worry from some on Compass Pathways monopolizing on psychedelics
    • Kyle says big and fast growth can be dangerous for mental health
    • It’s possible that these companies will just push for results to pay off the investment than to really take the time to have slow meaningful sessions and include the therapeutic model
    • When therapists have more congruence with their client, they get better results

Links

Website

About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.


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RiverStyx – Funding the Access and Preservation of Sacred Plant Medicines

In this episode, Joe interviews Cody Swift from the Riverstyx Foundation. In the show, they talk about Peyote and the troubles for Native Americans and their church not having access and preservation of Peyote.

3 Key Points:

  1. RiverStyx is a small family foundation that funds projects that demonstrate the potential for healing and beauty. RiverStyx has funded the preservation of land to protect the sacred Peyote plant.
  2. The Portugal Model shows that decriminalization works. Portugal faced unprecedented overdoses and drug abuse, typically with heroine, and when they turned to decriminalization and treatment, overdoses and incarceration dropped significantly to almost none.
  3. The Native American churches have held onto their ceremonial practices very tightly, and they struggle to find legal and sustainable access to Peyote, their sacred plant medicine.

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Show Notes

About Cody and RiverStyx Foundation

  • RiverStyx is a small family foundation
    • Cody’s grandfather was the CEO of UPS, and before his grandmother passed, she put a large share of the stock into a small family foundation
    • Cody and his father took their quarter of the Foundation and created RiverStyx
    • “How do you use a million and a half dollars a year for remarkable good?” – Cody
  • He fell into philanthropy along with the burden/blessing of making decisions to change the world with a lot of money
  • He started LEAD (Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion)
    • It is a program that aims to help those struggling with addiction rather than punishing them with prison time

The Portugal Model

  • In the early 2000’s, Eric Schlosser’s book, Reefer Madness Reefer Madness: Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labor in the American Black Market eluded to Portugal having decriminalized all drugs
  • Portugal faced unprecedented overdoses and drug abuse, typically with heroine
    • They realized that they couldn’t arrest their country out of the drug addiction problem, so they turned to decriminalization and treatment
    • They de-stigmatized treatment and drug users didn’t have to feel ashamed and use drugs in the shadows
    • This lowered HIV rates to almost nothing
    • It was highly successful
  • “Not everyone needs drugs, but not everyone should be at risk to go to jail if they get caught with them.” – Joe
    • Joe encourages psychedelically inclined folks to look deeper into harm reduction and drug decriminalization
    • “Let’s provide these people safe access to a clean supply where they can stabilize again” – Cody
  • Joe mentions a book by Jeremy Narby, Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge, Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge
  • The drug war is causing danger to the plants
    • Cody says, if cane syrup was made illegal because it is killing people, we wouldn’t ban the growth of corn, because it is sacred and used for so many other things
  • “Jail is one of the biggest problems for mushroom users” – Joe
    • Joe mentions that he was a little frustrated that Michael Pollan was able to take mushrooms and not go to jail, but the average person could go to jail
    • Cody says that he highly respects Michael Pollan and what he has done for the psychedelic revolution, and that he thinks that Pollan wouldn’t want anyone to go to jail for this
    • People like Michael Pollan and Tim Ferriss have done a tremendous job securing funding for Psychedelic Research

Peyote

  • Native American people had always been close to Cody’s heart
  • As a philanthropist, he didn’t know where to begin
  • There is a myriad of problems facing Native American communities
    • About 5 years ago, it just came into consciousness
    • He got connected to Sandor of the Native American church
    • He learned about ceremony and it became absolutely clear that he had to be a part of it
    • It was an unclear path on how to support the community in the beginning, there was no 501C-3, there were no other philanthropists, the community is so large
  • “How to support them in the continuance and empowerment of their using of a highly potent and healing substance to treat communities that have suffered so much, that was the key question” – Cody
    • Looking at the threat and endangerment of the Peyote plant was the most important part of securing the preservation of this sacred plant
    • Synthetic Mescaline is difficult to access and expensive

Ceremony

  • It’s hard to track the ancient original threats to the traditions
  • The Native American churches have held onto the ceremonial practices very tightly
  • It’s important that white people don’t just come in and tweak the ceremony
  • The average life expectancy for Native Americans is only in their 50s
  • They have gone through so much suffering, and they are very awake, sensitive people that are holding this culture and practice close to them
  • Alcoholism is one of the largest problems in Native American communities, and Peyote has shown to be a highly tangible benefit and cure for alcoholism

Preservation

  • It has taken over 4 years to begin building these alliances
  • Riverstyx and Bronners have been the only sources of funding, they need more
  • Through this, they purchased 605 acres of land for peyote preservation in Texas
    • 600 acres may not solve the Peyote crisis, but it is a start and has opened the doors to connect with other farmers that has now led to 12,000 acres dedicated to peyote preservation
    • This is to return sovereignty and control to the Native
    • After the land was purchased, they had a pilgrimage with the Navajo
  • Peyote is God to them, it’s their connection to the spiritual realm
  • Native Americans have resisted acculturation and stuck to their ways, that is their strength

Links

Email: cody@riverstyxfoundation.org

Website

About RiverStyx

RiverStyx Foundation attempts to lessen human suffering caused by misguided social policy and stigma, while advocating enhanced opportunities for healing, growth, and transformation in such areas as drug policy, criminal justice, and end-of-life care. The Riverstyx Foundation believes in the human potential for healing, growth, and transformation. The Riverstyx Foundation works to provide a bridge to the relinquished parts of ourselves, our society, and our ecology, to ease those fears and prejudices by funding projects that demonstrate the potential for healing and beauty, when life is embraced in its fullest expression.

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Louis Adam and Jordan Williams – Mycology Now: Spreading Knowledge one Spore at a Time

In this episode, Joe sits down with Jordan and Lou from Mycology Now, a company that makes and sells spore syringes for microscopy use. In the show, they talk about the start of Mycology Now, the culture change caused by psychedelics, and personal stories on how psychedelics changed their lives.

3 Key Points:

  1. Mycology Now is a company that produces premium spores for microscopy use. The goal is to spread knowledge about mycology, one spore at a time.
  2. We are living in an age of information that has never been experienced before, people have the tools to break the stigma on their own just by educating themselves.
  3. Psychedelics are becoming a culture change agent, more and more people are becoming accepting of psychedelics, and psychedelics are helping people come together to create positive change.

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Show Notes

Mycology Now

  • Jordan and Lou are co-owners and creators of Mycology Now
    • The company runs out of Florida
  • Mycology Now is a company that sells spores for microscopy
  • They have two locations in Denver
  • The mission of the company is to spread spores and knowledge
  • Lou shares how his interest in mycology began
    • He says it began with his struggle with depression and suicidal tendencies
    • Psilocybin had ended up being the only thing that helped with the struggle, the depression was completely erased
  • Jordan shares his story
    • His mother was in a relationship when he was about 10 years old with an abusive man
    • This man abused narcotics, opioids
    • He was abusive mentally, physically and emotionally
    • He grew up being convinced that he wasn’t worthy of love, and he blamed himself
    • About 2 years ago, he discovered mushrooms, and was able to go into the painful parts of his childhood and forgive himself and heal from his trauma
    • “Although negative things did happen to me, and to my family, I was not the cause of it, and I should not have to carry that around with me.” – Jordan
    • He wants to do everything in his power to bring that to the rest of the world

Shattering the Stigma

  • One thing that they have noticed about the younger generation is that they are way more open and have way more acceptance of psychedelics and an interest in self care and mental health
  • “We are living in an age of information that has never been experienced before, people have the tools to break the stigma on their own just by educating themselves.” – Jordan
  • Joe mentions that in Colorado, psychedelics are a bit normalized to have conversation about
    • In Florida, the median age is 55, so there is more of a challenge because people that age grew up in the taboo time of psychedelics

The start of Mycology Now

  • It organically grew into a website
    • Lou says it was an entity that grew on its own
  • Joe predicts that in 2020, we are about to see the Psilocybin movement really take off
  • Joe brings up the Paul Stamets Stack, which is Cubensis, Lions Mane and Niacin
    • There are testimonials about auditory changes that you can measure, you can increase your ability to hear frequencies
    • They bring up an example of a deaf man being able to hear the waves of the ocean for the first time after practicing the Stamet’s stack

Psychedelics as a Culture Change agent

  • Some people say its the worst time in history, and other people say this is the best time in history
  • There is a hunger of more digestible ways of receiving information
  • Psychedelics can help us understand the impermanence of things
  • Lou brings up that Paul Staments and Dennis McKenna were the catalysts to his understanding of mycology
  • Jordan says that his inspiration and influence came from people at music festivals
    • People are very open and authentic when on psychedelics
    • Meeting real people with real lives who had profound change in their lives because of psychedelics are his major sources of inspiration

Psilocybin for Cancer and Depression

  • Lou’s sister was diagnosed with Metastatic breast cancer with a double mastectomy and was diagnosed with depression afterward
  • After talking about the health benefits, she took psilocybin, and laid down and disconnected with her body
    • Afterward, she was able to come out of it and talk about her ease with death
    • The experience felt like death itself, and having felt what death might feel like, she no longer experiences depression about her cancer

Final Fun Fact

  • Johns Hopkins psilocybin study on smoking cessation
    • 80% of people were abstinent from smoking cigarettes on a 6 month followup
    • Those people smoked an average of 19 cigarettes per day for an average of 31 years of their life

Links

Website
Instagram

About Mycology Now

Mycology Now is a humble small business dedicated to spreading awareness. They are a company that makes and sells spore syringes for microscopy use. Their Mushroom Spore prints and syringes speak for themselves; always having a heavy spore count.

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Dr. Daniela Peluso – Guidelines for the Awareness of Sexual Abuse in Ayahuasca Ceremony

In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Daniela Peluso, Cultural Anthropologist and Associate Director at Chacruna. In the show, they discuss guidelines for the awareness of against sexual abuse in Ayahuasca ceremony.

3 Key Points:

  1. Ayahuasca settings bring together shamans and participants, and with the increasing occurrence of such encounters, there is an alarming rate of incidences where shamans make sexual advances toward participants during or following ceremonies.
  2. Ayahuasca is a commonly used substance for seducing participants looking for healing, whom then return from their retreats needing additional healing from sexual abuse.
  3. This guideline reviews some of the key behaviors to look out for and ways to prepare before attending an Ayahuasca retreat to avoid and protect oneself against sexual abuse.

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Show Notes

Daniela

  • Daniela has a PhD in Anthropology
  • She was living with Indinenous people in Amazonia
    • She conducted field work in the Amazonian regions of Peru over the last two decades, particularly Ese Eja
  • She is on the board of Directors at Chacruna’s Institute for sexual abuse
    • She wrote an article on Ayahuasca and was noticed

Guidelines

  1. There was an initiative that made a guideline for doing Ayahuasca but it was held back because there are so many different ways ceremony can be performed and it wasn’t accurate
  2. Drinking with friends is wise
  3. Drinking with experienced women or a couple is another wise move
    Abuse mainly happens to women but it does happen to men as well
    There is a higher chance for a person to speak up when they have someone they know and trust there with them
    Ayahuasca tourism is why sexual abuse is such a problem
    When someone doesn’t know that touch is out of the norm in ceremony, they might accept it because they were never informed that it’s wrong
    They may think that being touched sexually is just a part of the ceremony, and it’s not
    AyaAdvisors and Tripadvisor are both decent resources for reviews on Ayahuasca centers/ceremonial retreats
    Unless something goes terribly wrong, you will usually get good reviews
    Places also change over time
  4. It’s not necessary for healers to touch intimate parts of your body or any area to which you do not consent 
    There are forms of healing where the body is touched, so it’s important for the person to make known what is okay and not okay from the start
  5. Curaciones, Sopladas and Limpiezas do not require you to remove your clothes 
    If a shaman removes clothing, that may be a warning sign because that is not a part of tradition
  6. Look out for warning signs that a healers intentions with you might be sexual
    When healers start to talk about how they aren’t married or that they can give you ‘special treatment’ or that sexual or ‘love magic’ is necessary for healing, that is a warning sign
    Use common sense and draw the line immediately if anything sexual comes up
  7. Sexual Intercourse between healer and patient during ceremonies or directly after the ceremony is not acceptable in Ayahuasca tradition
  8. Sexual intercourse with a healer does not give you special power or energy
  9. Consider cultural differences and local behavioral norms when interacting with native healers, letting go of ethnocentrism                                                                      Having an understanding of what is culturally normal is important
  10. Consider cultural differences and local clothing customs
  11. Protect your personal space, physically and spiritually
    Each person has a right to know their body and know what feels right and wrong to them
    No means no
  12. Be wary if healers offer psychoactive substances other than those used during ceremonies
  13. He is a Shaman, not a Saint!                                                                                                        There is a lot more “I am a Shaman” these days, where it used to be more of “I am not a Shaman”
    Ayahuasca tourism definitely romanticized what being a Shaman really is
  14. If violation occurs, get support
    People should speak up as quickly as they are able to, vocally or physically
    “There is no need to suffer in silence” – Daniela
  15. Beware of what might appear to be consensual sex
    It has a lot to do with having the same form of communication, trust, and power dynamics
  16. Beware of getting romantically involved
  17. If you are aware of or witness sexual abuse, speak up

Final Thoughts

“Individuals have to accept that Ayahuasca has become a business and an industry as much as it is a spiritual practice, and that it includes the trappings of capitalism like exploitation and inequality.” – Daniela

Links

Email: d.peluso@kent.ac.uk

About Daniela Peluso, PhD

Daniela Peluso is a cultural anthropologist whose current research focuses on indigenous Amazonian communities. She has worked over the last two decades in Lowland South America, mostly with communities in in the Peruvian and Bolivian Amazon. She is actively involved in various local efforts on issues relating to health, gender, indigenous urbanization and land-rights and works in close collaboration with indigenous and local organizations as reflected in her publications. She also specializes on the anthropology of finance. She received her PhD in 2003 from Columbia University and is a senior lecturer in social anthropology at the University of Kent. She is an Associate Director of the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines and on the board of the Society of Lowland South America (SALSA) and People and Plants International (PPI).


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Laura Northrup – Healing Sexual Trauma with Psychedelics and Entheogens

In this episode, Kyle interviews Laura Northrup, Marriage and Relationship Somatic Psychotherapist and creator of the podcast, Inside Eyes. Inside Eyes is an audio series about people using entheogens and psychedelics to heal from sexual trauma.

3 Key Points:

  1. If you think sexual abuse is happening, its important to speak up! We live in a world where it’s scary to speak up, but at its core, it’s really scary to not speak up, and to let these things happen to our fellow humans.
  2. Somatic work brings people the autonomy of their body that usually gets taken away when trauma is formed.
  3. Dissociation is usually a side effect of trauma, and it’s common for a trauma patient to take psychedelics and become re-associative after one experience. But, if a patient was traumatized at a young age and dissociated their whole life, becoming re-associated can be stressful, and integration becomes really important.

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Show Notes

Inside Eyes

  •  Inside Eyes is an audio series about people using entheogens and psychedelics to heal from sexual trauma.
    • Laura says the name ‘Inside eyes’ means to look inward
  • Sexual violence happens in every community, as well as in the psychedelic community
  • “Entheogens and psychedelics can wake us up so we can be more empowered and better stewards to the earth. But just because someone uses these substances, it doesn’t mean that they will be operating at their highest self.” – Laura

Somatics

  • Laura is a psychotherapist in the Bay area who works with survivors of sexual trauma
  • There is a place where people get with their healing that is very difficult to move past
    • There is something on a spiritual level that needs to move to heal someone past their ‘block’
  • Somatic therapy is a huge part of preparing for and integrating these experiences to heal from trauma
  • Laura says when people talk about their healing, its common to only talk about the part when the entheogen or psychedelic comes in, but maybe not the 6 years of therapy they had before hand
    • She says she really wants to create the balance of including both the therapy and the entheogenic/psychedelic use
  • Laura says she also believes in community based healing
    • There is so much shame in secrecy
  • One theory of somatic therapy, is that there was a physical response that our body may have wanted to make during a moment of sexual trauma, and psychedelics and entheogens brings those movements out in therapy, to be able to heal
    • Somatic work brings people the autonomy of their body that usually gets taken away when trauma is formed

Integration

  • This thing can happen when you become extremely dissociated from trauma, and then you use psychedelics or entheogens, and you become associated after just one experience, thats great
    • But if you have trauma from a young age and have been dissociated for your whole life, one psychedelic experience can be very stressful
    • It takes a lot of integration to deal with the difficulties

Ketamine

  • Dissociation when you’re already suffering from dissociation has a healing effect
    • “Part of healing is going toward wholeness” – Laura
    • There is a lot of variation in what someone considers dissociation
    • “Being embodied is empowering, and being disembodied is different than being dissociated. People can become more embodied after using a dis-associative medicine.” – Laura
  • Laura also covers how people function in their relationships as they heal from their trauma
  • Alcohol is legal, its horrible for your body, it causes so many deaths yearly, yet we don’t look at Ayahuasca and MDMA and all these other medicines as a collective culture

Bystanders

  • If you think something is going on, it’s important to not just be polite and not say anything
    • The politeness is a sickness that we have in America
    • Psychedelics and entheogens can be really good at helping us be activists in healing both ourselves and others
    • We live in a world where it’s scary to speak up, but at its core, it’s really scary to not speak up, and to let these things happen to our fellow humans
  • Psychedelics and Entheogens get people into a deeper sense of their own truth
    • “We need to be in a globally aware place, we don’t need to just be healing ourselves, we need to all be healing.” – Laura
    • We need more connected relationships, if you spend today and have a more connected relationship to yourself or someone else, that is one step closer to healing our world

Advice

  • Just because you get connected to a group, does not mean that that group is the group you need to do your healing with
    • Do your research, and get references
  • Laura says she looks at psychedelic and entheogenic substance use from two lenses, she cares about the people taking it, and about the plants themselves
    • She says that some of these plant compounds are becoming endangered so it’s important to be mindful of that
    • She also says that some therapists and shamans use bodywork and ‘touch’ so it’s also important to be aware of that before ceremony or therapy
    • Touch can be both very healing, but also traumatizing, so it’s important to know boundaries

Horizons Event

  • Laura will be hosting an event at Horizons on sexual ethics in the psychedelic community, sign up here

Links

Horizons Event

Website

Podcast

Instagram

Twitter

Facebook

Email: insideeyespodcast@gmail.com

About Laura Northrup

Laura Mae Northrup is the creator and host of the podcast Inside Eyes, a series that explores the use of entheogens and psychedelics to heal sexual trauma.  She is a practicing psychotherapist and educator. Her work focuses on defining sexual violence through a spiritual and politicized lens and supporting the spiritual integrity of our collective humanity.  She is a champion of living more fully engaged and responsible lives through the healing use of entheogens and psychedelics.  She lives and works in Oakland, CA.


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Dr. Ben Sessa – Preliminary Results from MDMA Assisted Therapy for Alcohol Use Disorder

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Ben Sessa, a Consultant Psychiatrist who is heavily involved in psychedelic research. Ben comes on to talk about preliminary results from the first ever, MDMA assisted therapy for alcohol use disorder (AUD).

3 Key Points:

  1. Ben Sessa plays a role in leading the current MDMA assisted therapy study for alcohol use disorder, and shares preliminary results.
  2. In the current stage, out of the first 12 patients, 2 have turned back to drinking, 5 have stayed completely dry and another 5 who have had a drink or two but have not relapsed back to their typical levels of consumption.
  3. Most people with a long term substance addiction have a history of trauma. MDMA can help people feel safe, in order to work through and heal trauma.

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Show Notes

Preliminary Results

  • They had 13 people in the study, and they took data on 4 people
  • The first caveat in these results is that there was no blinding and no placebo in this study
    • There is no way to tell that it was solely the drug that resulted in the effects
  • In terms of tolerability, everyone preferred it to other treatment, there were no bad reactions to the MDMA, there were no negative reactions, it was a total success in terms of tolerability
  • In the current stage, out of the first 12 patients, 2 have turned back to drinking, 5 have stayed completely dry and another 5 who have had a drink or two but have not relapsed back to their typical levels of consumption
    • They did a similar study previous to this one except without the MDMA and they had 11 patients, 9 of them went back to their full level of consumption
  • They chose alcohol use disorder because it’s so difficult to treat
  • All patients are recruits from local drug and alcohol services
    • Ben picks them up after they have detoxed, after they have been cured of the physical dependence, but when they have yet to be cured of the psychological dependence
  • They receive 2 dosing days within their 8 week therapy (usually weeks 3 and 6)
    • They do 125mg and then half that size dose 2 hours later, which sustains the high
  • Ben mentions that recruitment is difficult, a lot of people have a drinking problem, but they can’t have patients that are depressed, suicidal, pregnant, epileptic, etc.

Future for the Study

  • Up until next March, they are continuing to take in new patients for the study to have more data
  • The next step is to have a randomized control study
  • This current study is sponsored by Imperial College of London
    • It’s not a MAPS sponsored study, it’s the first non MAPS, MDMA study
  • The main papers, with all the data are over a year and a half away from publishing

Addiction and Trauma

  • “MDMA addiction is as rare as a hen with teeth.” – Ben
  • “Most people with a long term substance addiction have a history of trauma.” – Ben
  • Trauma and PTSD is highly treatment resistant
  • There are certain drugs that inhibit fear response, such as alcohol, heroin, etc
    • They make you forget the pain but you can’t work with them and do therapy with them, with MDMA you can
  • MDMA can help people feel safe, in order to work through and heal trauma
  • “We are all the products of our attachment relationships.” – Ben

Breaking Convention

  • This past year was the 5th one
  • There were 1300 attendees from all over the world
  • What’s wonderful about Breaking Convention is how multidisciplinary it is
    • There’s the guy in the gray suit in one room talking about high level neuroscience and a hippie with dreads in the other room talking about the spirits that live in the Salvia leaves
    • Ben says they work really hard to make that balance work
  • There’s a lot of debate and conflict in the psychedelic movement right now,
    • Breaking Convention is very important for creating space for this debate

Looking ahead

  • Ben is looking into opening a clinic
  • He mentions academia is not his area of study, he is a clinician, but this research is an excuse to treat patients

Links

Breaking Convention

About Ben Sessa

Ben Sessa is a consultant psychiatrist in adult addictions, working part-time at Addaction in Weston-Super-Mare and is senior research fellow at Bristol, Cardiff and Imperial College London Universities, where he is currently taking time off clinical medical practice to study towards a PhD in MDMA Psychotherapy. He has specialist training as a child and adolescent psychiatrist and is interested in the developmental trajectory from child maltreatment to adult mental health disorders. Dr Sessa’s joint interests in psychotherapy, pharmacology and trauma have lead him towards researching the subject of drug-assisted psychotherapy using psychedelic adjuncts. He is the author of two books exploring psychedelic medicine; The Psychedelic Renaissance (2012) and To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic (2015) and is currently conducting research with Imperial College London and Cardiff universities studying the potential role for MDMA-assisted therapy for the treatment of PTSD and alcohol dependence syndrome. Dr Sessa is outspoken on lobbying for change in the current system by which drugs are classified in the UK, believing a more progressive policy of regulation would reduce the harms of recreational drug use. He is a co-founder and director of the UK’s Breaking Convention conference.


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Rachel Anderson and James Franzo – Creating Practice using Kratom and other Botanicals

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Rachel Anderson and James Franzo, founders of the EDELIC Center for Ethnobotanicals. In the show, they talk about the benefits of creating a healing practice using botanicals such as Kratom and the need to decriminalize all plants.

3 Key Points:

  1. EDELIC is a non-profit in Eugene, Oregon that began as a public lending library that has grown to a community of information, events, and conservatory of psychoactive botanicals.
  2. Kratom can sometimes get a bad rep, commonly thought of as an opioid. But Kratom is not an opioid, it just affects the opioid receptors in the brain, respiration never changes, and it’s actually in the same category as the coffee family, so it gives a boost of energy.
  3. There is not an economic incentive that puts the botanical research on the same level as synthetic research.  At EDELIC, the goal is to create scientific evidence that validates citizen-led research, authentic scientific information, and create a scientifically valid, open science and praxis oriented, non-commodified access pathway, to and from the direct human & botanicals/fungi relationship while protecting the bounty emerging from therein.

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Trip Journal  Integration Workbook

Show Notes

EDELIC

  • EDELIC is a non-profit in Eugene Oregon that has been operating for 4 years
    • They started as a public lending library
    • They put on a weekly discussion group and host events
    • What started as a library, grew to a conservatory to protect plants, and now includes research

Conservatory

  • They have 15-16 psychoactive species, such as Salvia, Kratom, San-Pedro, etc.
    • Volunteers are able to help out in the garden
  • They are interested in growing the conservatory to have different climates that cater to each individual plant

Events

  • They have done both a CBD event and Kratom event, and have brought the plants from the conservatory
  • The events that they have been holding are based on community desire for more information on those plants

Kratom

  • Kratom has the potential to prevent deaths in the opioid crisis with less initial stigma than ibogaine, psilocybin, etc
  • The symptoms of withdrawal from Kratom are similar to withdrawal from coffee
  • Kratom is a plant and the benefits can be harnessed along with a practice
    • when habits are formed, a person doesn’t need to have a dependency on the Kratom
    • Kyle mentions that creating a practice is a foreign concept to some people, they think their healing comes solely from the substance and not the practice
  • The best way to take it is in tea form, and let all the intelligence centers of the body take the medicine in
    • James says he hears news and TED Talks on Kratom tinctures and extracts, and he thinks that leans Kratom toward that abusive behavior again
    • Using it continuously and re-upping on the go makes it less of a practice
    • “In all cases, were encouraging folks to focus on the whole botanical, letting the intelligence of the body to form the relationship with the plant will keep you safer than going in the other direction” – James
  • The goal is to use the Kratom to take away the pain to a point where the individual has more energy and to say, “what can I do to improve my health in this moment?”
    • That may look less like taking 100% of the pain away and taking it away just enough to have the energy to create a practice of healing without the reliance on another substance
  • Its generally safe, it has a predictable response in individuals, and it is legal
  • Kratom is not an opioid, it just effects the opioid receptors in the brain, respiration never changes, and its in the same category as the coffee family, so it gives a boost of energy
  • “Botanicals, integration practice, and realizing our internal intelligence centers can really influence and inform our decision making process” – James
  • Kratom can be tested, and there are industry standards similar to how cannabis is tested
    • Kratom is highly unregulated and you are taking a risk when not testing it for quality

Decriminalize Nature

  • In 1994, the World Trade Organization introduced this piece of legislation that says in US Patent Law, minor scientific alterations to natural botanical plants can be patented
  • Patent law protects scientific adaptations to botanicals, and therefore, the US claimed that third world countries owe us royalties for agricultural products
    • In Canada, they said to patent an indigenous plant is to steal from the third world country, and i n that case, the US owes other countries over 300 million and in pharmaceuticals, billions
    • That is why in the US, there is an urge to make money on synthetic versions of these plants
    • There is not an economic incentive that puts the botanical research on the same level as the synthetic research
  • The WTO does not recognize technology or innovations by farmers, artisans or grassroots innovators that happen in a grassroots setup
  • There are churches that are recognized at the federal level, they cant conduct research, but they have access to provide these plants
  • “We are hoping to create scientific evidence that validates citizen-led research, authentic scientific information, and create a scientifically valid, open science and praxis oriented, non-commodified access pathway, to and from the direct human & botanicals/fungi relationship while protecting the bounty emerging from therein. – James
  • Rachel notes that all funding so far has been from volunteers and donors
  • “I am strongly for decriminalizing nature, it protects the indigenous, it protects nature, there is no reason someone should be criminalized for using plants” – Rachel
  • There is a unique interplay between the laws at the local, state and federal level

Final Thoughts

  • There is a need for people to come together, a need to not feel alone, a need to share
  • If anyone is interested in starting a non-profit, Rachel and James are willing to help

Links

Website

Email: team@ecfes.org

About Rachel Anderson

Rachel’s focus is on somatic therapies and the healthy integration of plant practices. She has successfully fund-raised, planned and organized public events, hosted intentional integration practices with ethnobotanicals, created artwork, designed integration journals, met with the 4J school board to discuss drug awareness education in classrooms. Rachel brings power, stability, and genuine strength and determination to ECfES and acts as an original steward for the original ECfES vision.

About James Franzo

A 20-year journey of self-education (using what has now become a large part of the lending library we operate) inspired James to launch ECFES. Additionally, gaining experience working in the field of chemical dependency treatment and social services contributed further to his disenfranchisement with current policy and treatment modalities, and attracted him further to evidence-based approaches to drug policy reform and the mental health field in general. Specifically, potent ethnobotanical plants and mind/body methodologies for integrating them. James is also an honorably discharged military veteran, who served for six years. James has been the website content developer @ ECFES, library archivist, team builder, and steward of the original vision for ECFES, an ethnobotanical/psychedelic/entheogenic healing center under one roof.


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Tep – Drug Education and Festival Safety

In this episode, Joe interviews Tep, a chemical engineer and educated, psychedelic enthusiast. They dive into rich conversation regarding drug use education and creating a cohesive meaning among recreational, medical and therapeutic substance use.

3 Key Points:

  1. There is a disconnect between drug education and drug use. There are a lot of people who use drugs, but not a lot of people who are educated on how to use them.
  2. There is a huge advantage of isolating the property of the drug when using them for therapy. For example, using isolated psilocybin vs mushrooms.
  3. Learning on site at festivals and music events may not be super successful, drug education and harm reduction may look more like preparation.

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Show Notes

About Tep

  • Tep listens to all sorts of music, whether that’s rave style with lights, or jam bands, or a music festival with camping, or even rap and jazz
    • There is a whole spectrum of drug use in the music environment
  • She points out that some people are very mindful of what and how much they are taking, and other people are just taking anything they can find, and sometimes a lot or too much
    • She started to talk to people at festivals and realized that people really didn’t know about the benefits and power of psychedelics
    • There definitely is a place for harm reduction education at festivals

Drug Use Assistance Groups

  • Joe brings up the Zendo project and other initiatives that help people who are having a difficult drug experience to walk them out of it
  • Some festival ‘families’ go around and have missions to hydrate people or make sure people are having a good time
    • They aren’t staff or paid to do it or anything but they do it for the good of the whole

Vision

  • Learning on site may not be super successful, most festival goers have an agenda for adventure and music and not for learning at a booth or speaker
    • Drug education and harm reduction may look more like preparation
  • Tep mentions Diplo doesn’t allow any drug use at his shows, alcohol is the only allowed substance
    • Tep thinks that he probably doesn’t know that alcohol is far worse than psychedelics and other drugs

Theraputic Use

  • When someone goes and has a vacation, they have certain chemicals released in their mind, it is still therapeutic, even if it’s not a psychedelic experience
  • “Not only can psychedelics be fun, they can also be therapeutic.” – Tep
  • Tep started going to camping style festivals and started hanging out with a crowd of people 10 years older than her, where their drug use was mature and mindful and safe
    • Then when she would hang around her younger friend group again, she realized how unsafe and unmindful their drug use was
    • It led her to be more active in wanting to educate everyone on how to use drugs properly

Exotic Compounds

  • Shulgin’s magical half dozen includes 2CB, 2CT2, and others
  • Tep mentions preference of truffles over mushrooms
  • Her and Joe bring up the decrease in potency of most drugs with exposure to moisture and time and other variables

Compound Isolation

  • There is a huge advantage of isolating the property of the drug when using them for therapy
    • For example, using isolated psilocybin vs mushrooms
  • The therapy is just as important as the substance
  • There is a way to find information in this community without getting a degree in it

About Tep

Tep is a chemical engineer who had an interest in modern psychedelic research. She is passionate about the EDM and music culture and finding new ways to educate drug users on harm reduction and drug use education.


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Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H and Dr. Andrew Gallimore – Alien Information Theory Book Review

In this unique episode, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H joins together in conversation with Dr. Andrew Gallimore, Author of Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game. In the show, these two Englishmen discuss Peter’s critique of Dr. Gallimore’s recent book.

3 Key Points:

  1. Dr. Andrew Gallimore’s recent book, Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game, explains how DMT provides the secret to the very structure of our reality.
  2. Based on a recently published review of Andrew’s book, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H sifts through and confronts Andrew’s idea that DMT allows one access to, and existence in a hyperspatial world.
  3. They discuss Peter’s critique, covering topics on information, consciousness, dimensions, dreams and theory.

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Show Notes

Peter’s review on Alien Information Theory

  • Peter mentions 3 ‘problems’
    • The first problem is a critique on what information is
    • The second point regards consciousness
    • The third point talks about dimensions and theories

Information

  • The first problem Peter states says that the originality of the work pushes the ideas further toward art and further away from truth
    • Andrew says he is a fan of making things a work of art, and he says at the start of the book that it isn’t something scientific
    • In philosophy it’s called speculative metaphysics
    • “It’s cliche isn’t it, that science fiction eventually becomes science fact.” – Peter
  • Minkowski Space Time, the theory that Einstein supports, HG Wells wrote about a half a century before Minkowski wrote about it
  • Peter says that a person could be defined by a set of numbers, weight, height, age, etc.
    • Andrew says that the information is the electron, and how it interacts with other information
  • How do we know that there is not more to anything than that which we can know about it?
  • How matter creates/is mind is a mystery

Consciousness

  • Peter asks, ‘does information at a high level produce subjectivity?’
    • Andrew says consciousness is fundamental
  • Panpsychism holds a distinction between an aggregate and a hold-on
  • Andrew says that integrated information is consciousness
    • Information doesn’t emerge from consciousness, information actually is consciousness
  • Andrew says that he is an idealist, he thinks that the world is structured
  • Peter says that information always has to be about something
    • Andrew disagrees and says that information is substantiated
    • You could say, the fundamental digits of our reality are ran by an ‘alien computer’, the physics completely different than our understanding of reality
  • Andrew says that the absolute self is not only aware of itself, its aware that it is aware of itself
  • He also says that these ideas are all musings, all things he has thought about as possibilities
  • Peter asks Andrew if he thinks brains are required for consciousness
    • Andrew says, consciousness is not a property of matter, it is an organization of things

Dimensions and Theories

  • Andrew says we don’t need senses to experience other worlds
    • The DMT experience is not mind dependent, it shows another reality
    • When you’re dreaming, it’s independent of the sensory experience, but its not entirely independent of the waking world
    • “The dream state is informed by the waking state.” – Andrew
  • Peter asks, ‘If the brain creates dreams, why does the brain not create the DMT world?’
    • “We know how the brain learns to construct worlds, but we don’t know how the brain learns to construct DMT worlds.” – Andrew
  • When looking at a machine elf, is he equally as able to deny his consciousness as we are able to?

Final Thoughts

  • Peter concludes that Andrew is a Realist/Panthiest
  • Peter and Andrew think that they don’t disagree with each other, but Peter believes Andrew would have to go into extremely deep detail on all of his points in his book, and the book is thick enough as it is
  • Peter agrees Andrew’s book is a great narrative for mapping the DMT space
    • Andrew likes to think of it as computational idealism

Links

Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game

Peter’s Review

About Dr. Andrew Gallimore

Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.

About Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H

Dr Peter Sjöstedt-H is an Anglo-Scandinavian philosopher of mind and a metaphysician who specializes in the thought of Whitehead and Nietzsche, and in fields pertaining to panpsychism and altered states of sentience. Following his degree in Continental Philosophy at the University of Warwick, he became a Philosophy lecturer in London for six years and has now passed his PhD (on ‘Pansentient Monism’, examined by Galen Strawson and Joel Krueger) at the University of Exeter, where he also teaches philosophy modules and writing skills. He is now to become a postdoc fellow of the university. Peter is the author of Noumenautics , the TEDx Talker on ‘psychedelics and consciousness‘, and he is  inspiration to the inhuman philosopher Marvel Superhero, Karnak.


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Kyle and Joe – Telluride Mushroom Festival


In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to have a conversation about the 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival, Healing the Mind, Healing the Planet. Joe attended the conference and heard from many amazing speakers.

3 Key Points:

  1. Joe attended The 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival last weekend, a festival and conference that celebrates all things fungal and brings together a cohort of enthusiasts, experts, and scientists.
  2. There was a lot of talk on the topic of microdosing. Opinions ranged from the feeling that there isn’t enough valid data to prove that microdosing is effective, to some testimony on how microdosing has helped relieve cluster headaches or help with traumatic brain injuries.
  3. There was some exciting news on innovative ways that mushrooms can be used medically to help fight disease or agriculturally to fight insects without using pesticides.

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Show Notes

  • The Telluride Mushroom Festival took place August 14th – 18th
  • This festival is is a placeholder Psychedelic conference
    • In the mycology world, the psychedelic topic isn’t typically included in events

Attendees and Talks

  • Brick Bunyard, who runs psychedelic magazine
  • Tradd Cotter of Mushroom Mountain, an excitable mycologist
  • Larry Evans of Blue Portal
  • Teresa Egbert of Herbal Visionz, a Psychedelic enthusiast
  • Peter Hendrix and Sara Lappan spoke on a study for using psychedelics to curb cocaine use
  • David Nichols, chemist, was pretty optimistic about where the psychedelic movement is heading
    • He gave a super scientific talk around receptor sites and LSD

Music and Psychedelics

  • Joe says that there is a long history of music and psychedelics
  • Kyle mentions a podcast he listened to about someone bringing in their own music for a Ketamine therapy session

Psychedelic Therapy

  • There was someone at the conference that said psychedelic therapists should have psychedelic experiences and should be open about it
    • It was an interesting conversation at the conference
    • Joe says, “you don’t need PTSD to treat someone with PTSD, it’s not the most important factor. The most important factor is safety.”

Scientist Conference

  • Joe mentions a conference coming up in the fall in New Orleans that is a Scientist only conference
    • If a scientist has published serious, quantitative data they are invited
    • It’ll be the first gathering of its kind where there is finally enough data

Microdosing

  • David Nichols shared his opinion on microdosing, that there isn’t real data on it and that importance should be put toward medical uses
  • Folks in the audience were making claims about microdosing for migraines and traumatic brain injuries, etc
    • Are people taking sub-perceptual doses or a threshold dose?
  • Joe says a macro dose is a dose you can see (maybe the size of an ant), micro dose is something you need a microscope to see
    • The majority of people microdosing aren’t educating themselves on dose size

Interesting Moments from the Conference

  • Joe was surprised was how charismatic Tradd Cotter was
    • Tradd has plans to do mushroom retreats in Jamaica
  • The most exciting news is a new method of pulling out the antibiotic resistant ‘stuff’ in a person, culturing it out and introducing it to sterilized/colonized grain bag and then reintroducing it to the person so they aren’t antibiotic resistant anymore
    • This would be a mushroom bi-product that fights disease in humans in less than 24 hours
    • This same model could be used in cancer treatments or even agricultural applications, using mushrooms to fight disease or bugs that kill plants, etc
  • There were mushroom foraging walks and mushroom identification tables at the festival
  • Vendors included mushroom kombucha, mushroom jerky, festival clothing, etc
    • There was a guy from outside of Arizona who casts real psilocybin mushrooms and makes detailed metal jewelry out of them
  • The town is small and surrounded by super tall mountains, and the festival is dispersed around the town
    • It’s a small festival and a great way to make connections
  • “This is where you quit your job and dedicate your life to mushrooms” – Tradd Cotter
    • Mushroom farming is one of the few businesses you can start with under $5,000

Links

Website

About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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Daniel Shankin – Leadership Coaching and The Psilocybin Summit




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In this episode, Kyle interviews Daniel Shankin, Founder of Tam Integration. They cover topics including the Psilocybin Summit, child rearing, and integration practice.

3 Key Points:

  1. The Psilocybin Summit is an online conference on the myth, magic and science of psychedelic mushrooms.
  2. Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves. We need to learn to ask ourselves how we can connect deeply without becoming codependent.
  3. Child rearing is an important topic. Nurturing a child with care and love is similar to the way we use psychedelics, meditation and yoga for healing.

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Show Notes

About Daniel

  • Daniel came up in the psychedelic space in the 90’s
    • Recreational use turned into therapeutic use
    • He explains that as enlightenment called to him, it also called him to do shadow work
    • He said the transformational work began in his 20’s
  • He said there was no community so he used Ram Dass books to help with integration
  • Daniel says that psychedelics made him feel a deeper sense of life, more responsibility in his role on earth, feel more connected, etc.
    • His calling from these feelings led him to practice yoga, open a studio, provide trainings and more
    • “People gain so much by being heard” – Daniel

Child Rearing

  • Daniel mentions talking to his wife about conscious child raising
  • The conversation is about how to heal, not just talking about how to raise ourselves so we need less healing
    • “How do I raise a baby with as little trauma as possible?” – Daniel
  • Grof talks about the birth process in his books but kind of stops talking about trauma after the baby is out
  • The baby is designed to be held by the mother, and to put that child in a box with other children in boxes without parents, in a cold and sterile environment is a horrible idea
  • We project our own anti-social tendencies onto babies
    • A baby is meant to have constant connection and attention, and when we give a baby neglect, we wonder why they have addiction, depression, etc.
  • Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves
  • “How much deep connection can you offer and can you stand? How can I connect deeply without becoming codependent?” – Daniel

Attachment and Healing

  • As a yoga teacher for 20 years, he has found that there is a type of reparenting, that it is helping people to learn to help themselves
  • “Caring for people is a good thing to practice, one of our greatest problems is self-centeredness” – Daniel
  • Money isn’t the problem, “my money” is the problem
  • Samskara is a subtle tendency of the mind (like an eroded river)
    • The tendency to prove that we exist, or to prove that we are right, is something that the ego promotes
    • It takes energy to tame the ego and recondition ourselves
    • “Am I trying to prove that I exist in order to feel loved?” If our needs are met and we feel safe and loved, we don’t need to prove ourselves
  • We tend to look for the quickest and easiest way possible for the least amount of suffering, we look for the quick fix, but there is a lot of work to be done typically
  • It’s important to introduce a meditation practice into a psychedelic practice
  • Babies will cry into an endless void because they don’t understand time, just like in breathwork or psychedelic sessions, where time is distorted

Mindfulness of Enthusiasm

  • Enthusiastic consent is where you can press someone into giving you consent
  • Are they enthusiastic about engaging with you? If not, then don’t
    • Learn how to gauge enthusiasm

Psilocybin Summit

  • September 19-22, 2019
  • The 920 Coalition is doing for psilocybin what 420 is doing for cannabis
  • There has never been a conference that is just psilocybin, and never fully online and live
    • It allows people to attend a conference from home
    • There is no venue to pay for, no tickets for travel, making it more accessible
    • The goal is to get as much traditional information as possible
  • Daniel says he’s not advocating psychedelics, he is advocating meditation for those who use psychedelics
    • Daniel hopes that with this conference, that he didn’t choose the speakers to just spit facts, hopefully this is heart and mind education that helps people feel like there is something possible in their lives that makes them feel greater, and that may or may not include psilocybin

Coaching vs. Therapy

  • Some people do not need therapy, they need coaching and accountability
  • We live in a world where our context does not always work to serve us
    • How do we change our context to better serve us?

Links

Website

Tam Integration

The Psilocybin Summit

About Daniel Shankin

After a profound and intense awakening experience in 1998, Daniel dove deep into his yoga and meditation practice to stabilize his realization in his body and the world. He began teaching in 2002, and took over leadership of his neighborhood yoga studio in 2004. He’s directed several teacher training programs and taught on the faculty of even more. Daniel ‘Sitaram Das’ Shankin has dedicated his life to the cultivation of clarity, resilience, and heart. With the recognition that our true nature is vast and generous, wise, he strives to serve his clients in finding their own innate goodness and boundless strength. He currently offers leadership coaching with a heavy emphasis on mindfulness and somatics, and is based in Marin County. You can visit his website and learn more about coaching opportunities at sitaramdas.com.

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Greg Kieser – Psychedelics role in the emergence of Super-Intelligent Entities


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In this episode, Kyle sits down to chat with Greg Kieser, Founder of think-tank, Supersystemic.ly and author of Dear Machine, a book written as a letter to a future super-intelligent entity. Topics covered include blockchain, AI, money, Psychedelic Investments and how psychedelics can help humanity prepare for the emergence of super-intelligent entities.

3 Key Points:

  1. Blockchain offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source.
  2. Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper. Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services.
  3. Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass Pathways is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale.

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Show Notes

About Greg

  • Greg worked at a foundation in NYC aimed at reducing the rate of poverty
  • He started an angel investment firm/think tank, Supersystemic.ly
  • He wrote the book, Dear Machine, a letter to a future, super-intelligent entity

Looking to the Past

  • Our nutrition narrowed when we became farmers
    • “The truth is, we can’t go back to where we came from, we have to go to a new place, so how do we do that?” – Greg
    • There is such difficulty with people living in clusters (cities) and transporting all of the food in from the country
    • It’s important for the psyche to get back to nature and even taking on a hobby as simple as gardening can be so healing
    • Children’s immune system has been shown to become stronger when living on farms and playing with animals and in the dirt
  • Psychedelics are helpful in understanding how interconnected everything is

Integration of Technology

  • Blockchains have the capacity to take data and pull it into a place where we have more control over it (can’t be bought or sold)
  • When we combine our knowledge of technology with psychedelics, we will really start to progress as a species

Block Chain

  • The creator of Bitcoin created BlockChain, which is a type of database that lives out on the internet that no one can own
    • It offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source
  • Greg mentions a block chain that will be a regeneration of land
    • Maybe all the members donate $50 to the block chain, and those members then can follow the progress of a pond or the growth of a tree, etc
    • Its a good example of a block chain being used for good

Money

  • Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper
    • Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services

AI

  • AI is going to get more and more powerful and corporations and governments are going to want to get their hands on AI for more power
    • In Dear Machine, Greg wrote about a super aware machine that helps us to make super intelligent decisions based on what food to eat (based on our microbes, our genetics, what is the most sustainable for the environment, etc)
    • Greg fears that the government will try to take control of it and have its own agenda, but he thinks that with super awareness for decision making, that good will win
  • Kyle mentions that the Western mind is so obsessed with Apocalypse
  • AI and Superintelligence are going to accelerate whatever systems we already have in place
    • If it happened right now, it would look ugly
    • But, if we create a world that appreciates interconnectedness and the diversity and complexity of our minds and our bodies, then we will be in a much better place
    • Psychedelics have a huge role to play, it allows us to appreciate things, it helps get our ego out of the way, it helps us break addiction
  • Monoculturization has led to a lot of bad things
  • “Don’t try to change the system, just make a new system” – Buckminster Fuller
  • Human well being and environmental stability are two metrics that we need to work on

Interest in Psychedelics

  • Greg’s interest in psychedelics began when we was invited to Psilocybin ceremonies
    • He said it just ‘clicks’
    • “You really don’t understand what psychedelics are until you take them” – Greg
    • He then began to invest in psychedelics, microbiomes, agriculture, etc

Compass Pathways

  • The main problem with the health system is that we get into the idea of patenting molecules
    • Psilocybin is a molecule that can’t be patented, so he’s not worried
  • Greg wants to see psilocybin use at a larger scale, so the medical model is a great way to get there
  • As a part of Compass Pathway’s program, in order to be a therapist and provide the therapy, you have to go through the therapy yourself
  • Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale

Looking Ahead

  • Greg is most excited to see healing from opioid addiction
    • Alcohol and tobacco fall under that in his hopes for healing
  • Greg is also really excited about the microbiome and the gut connection to the rest of the body
    • There was an Autism study that gave people with Autism a microbe transplant from healthy people and after 2 years there has been a remission of symptoms
      Microbiome Reddit 

Links

Supersystemic.ly
Dear Machine: A Letter to a Super-Aware/Intelligent Machine (SAIM)

About Greg Kieser

Greg Kieser is founder of Supersystemic.ly, a Brooklyn-based think-tank and angel investment firm dedicated to increasing humanity’s readiness for the emergence of superintelligent entities through the study and spread of “supersystemic” perspectives and innovations. Kieser, whose university and independent studies of complex systems science form the operating thesis of the company, founded Supersystemic.ly after more than a decade overseeing a portfolio of technology initiatives at an NYC-based poverty-fighting foundation. His work at the foundation was driven by a complex set of metrics for measuring the impact of investments on the economic, physical and mental well-being of low-income New Yorkers. Dear Machine, and to a greater extent the company, unites his unique skills and knowledge in technology, social investing and complex systems science.

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Dr. David Nichols – A Rich and Historical Overview of Psychedelic Chemistry


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In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. David Nichols, American Pharmacologist and Chemist. Dr. Nichols has made many contributions to the psychedelic space and is recognized as one of the foremost experts for his outstanding efforts in medicinal chemistry of hallucinogens.

3 Key Points:

  1. Dr. David Nichols is the founder of The Heffter Research Institute, which promotes research of the highest scientific quality with the classic hallucinogens and psychedelics in order to contribute to a greater understanding of the mind leading to the improvement of the human condition, and to alleviate suffering.
  2. Dr. Nichols has a strong opposition toward the DMT/pineal gland theory. The assumption is that DMT is released during birth and death, but Dr. Nichols presents opposing arguments as to why it isn’t true.
  3. David doesn’t believe in the research of microdosing psychedelics. He believes there are many other diseases and disorders that research money could be put toward discovering drugs for than the potential for heightened creativity with microdosing.

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Show Notes

About David

  • When he was a kid he was into pyrotechnics
  • He synthesized a lot of MDMA for MAPS
  • He is the founding President of Heffter Research Institute
  • He was introduced to psychedelics before he went to graduate school
  • David’s work was never interrupted during the drug war because he wasn’t doing any clinical work
  • He proposed the study for MDMA testing on rats for a micro-dialysis of chemicals being released from the brain

David’s History of Substances

  • David attended a meeting at the Esalon Institute
    • He met Rick Doblin, a young kid at the time, who was enthusiastic about MDMA and Marijuana
    • Rick decided he wanted to develop MDMA as a drug, and asked David to make it with him
  • Then David met Rick Strassman, who asked him to make DMT
    • So he made the DMT and then DMT Spirit Molecule came out as a result
  • David made the first batch of psilocybin for John Hopkins
  • “The only way to use these substances, is to use the medical model.” – David

Microdosing

  • David doesn’t agree with microdosing, he thinks its all just a big hype
  • He says that there is a huge placebo effect with microdosing
    • He says there isn’t a lot of proven results and literature to make him believe in it
  • He thinks that there are far too many other things to research and create drugs to cure (like eating disorders for example) vs. just heightening creativity with microdosing
  • David edited Torsten Passie’s book, The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics

DMT

  • Rick Strassman’s DMT hypothesis is that upon birth and death, the Pineal gland produces DMT, which produces an outer-body experience
    • David says that the pineal gland is too small, it’s only 180mg
    • It produces 25 micrograms of melatonin in 24 hours, so there is no way for it to produce 25 milligrams of DMT, the amount needed for a DMT trip

Heffter Origins

  • Heffter Research Institute was David’s idea
  • Arthur Heffter was a scientist with a PhD in Pharmacology and Chemistry
    • He was one of the most well respected Scientists in Germany
    • He got samples of Peyote, and knew there were alkaloids in it, and he separated all the alkaloids, and took each alkaloid himself to find out that mescaline was the active component in Peyote
    • He was the expert who invented hair tests to find out if people were suffering from lead poisoning

Heffter Research Institute

  • The effects that they discovered from Psilocybin blew them away
  • They knew LSD had powerful effects, but they weren’t expecting to find the therapeutic benefits that they did with Psilocybin
    • Psilocybin has a great timeline too, LSD is really long lasting, and 5-MEO-DMT is super short and really powerful
    • Psilocybin is great for use in therapy because of the time it allows for integration

GMP Psilocybin Patent

  • Joe mentions the patent of GMP Psilocybin and asks if there are other ways to make psilocybin
    • David says that he believes there are other ways to make Psilocybin
  • The cost of psilocybin is trivial in comparison to the cost of therapy, David doesn’t think that the drug itself will have a monopoly

Links

Heffter.org

Donate

About Dr. David Nichols

Dr. Nichols originally conceived of a privately funded Institute as the most effective mechanism for bringing research on psychedelic agents into the modern era of neuroscience. This vision led to the founding of the Heffter Research Institute in 1993. He is currently an Adjunct Professor at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC, where he continues his research. The focus of his graduate training, beginning in 1969, and of much of his research subsequent to receiving his doctorate in 1973 has been the investigation of the relationship between molecular structure and the action of psychedelic agents and other substances that modify behavioral states. His research has been continuously funded by government agencies for more three decades. He consults for the pharmaceutical industry and has served on numerous committees and government research review groups. Widely published in the scientific literature and internationally recognized for his research on centrally active drugs, he has studied all of the major classes of psychedelic agents, including LSD and other lysergic acid derivatives, psilocybin and the tryptamines, and phenethylamines related to mescaline. Among scientists, he is recognized as one of the foremost experts on the medicinal chemistry of hallucinogens. His high standards and more than four decades of research experience set the tone to ensure that rigorous methods and quality science are pursued by the Institute.

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Breaking Convention Series: Dr. Torsten Passie – The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics


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In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Torsten Passie, Professor of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy with the Hanover Medical School in Germany. In the show, they cover a range of topics on Dr. Passie’s studies on microdosing.

Dr. Torsten Passie will be taking part in a special panel dedicated to microdosing at Breaking Convention 2019 (August 16-18, Greenwich, London), also featuring Amanda Fielding of the Beckley Foundation, Dr David Erritzoe of Imperial College, London, Dr Devin Turhune (Goldsmiths), and Dimitris Liokaftos, exploring myriad aspects of microdosing, including its effects, unknowns, and media representation presented by BC director Nikki Wyrd. Find out more about Breaking Convention: https://www.breakingconvention.co.uk/

3 Key Points:

  1. Psychedelic research in the University setting died off after 2004, but is finally seeing an increase as the psychedelic revolution continues to grow.
  2. There is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs. It’s becoming popular for therapists to use the substances used on their patients, more common to do the self-work before doing the work on others.
  3. Even if microdosing does not produce any significant effects and it is all placebo, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society.

The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics

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Show Notes

About Dr. Passie

  • Dr. Passie has been researching psychedelics for 25 years
    • He specializes in the therapeutic use of psychedelic drugs
    • He has found difficulties in researching psychedelics during prohibition
  • Dr. Passie had a mystical experience before using psychedelics and then became interested in psychedelic use
  • He had grown up as an atheist, a materialist, and his experience required him to change his psychological state
    • His perception of reality was irritated and he had to see a therapist to integrate this experience
    • He said that this was frustrating because he was young and still in search for his identity
  • Through all of this, he decided to study medicine and become a psychedelic doctor
    • He became very conscious that he was on the right track

Research Studies

  • The researchers were the only ones doing studies on psychedelic states, there wasn’t much happening at the Universities
    • He did studies with cannabis, ketamine and even laughing gas
    • The research then was on how cannabinoids can help with psychosis
    • They were not successful with that, but it came to be that CBD was a neuroleptic and an anti-psychotic
  • Research pretty much stopped after 2004 due to new laws and the cost of the research
    • Dr. Passie does mention that in the past 10 years research has really taken off again and that we are really seeing the renaissance of psychedelic culture
  • In most of the literature of doctors doing self-experimenting, there is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs
    • Kyle mentions that MAPS has included into their training protocol to allow for therapists to have self-experiments with the substances that they are using on patients
    • Kyle also mentions he can’t imagine trying to hold space in breathwork without having had his own experiences with breathwork
    • Dr. Passie says that the history of self-experimentation with psychedelics has shown that the participants can become ‘gurus’ and lose their objectivity, he uses Timothy Leary as an example
    • But with only a few times of self-experimentation, maybe 2-4 times, he doesn’t see risks

HPPD

  • Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a disorder in which a person has flashbacks of visual hallucinations or distortions experienced during a previous hallucinogenic drug experience
  • Dr. Passie thinks there is a selection bias in what is published about HPPD
    • Its more common to have a study published that talks about an adverse effect of LSD than a benefit of it
  • Hundreds of thousands of studies were conducted in the 50’s, and no one claimed that this phenomenon came up
    • And now one person has conducted a study, claiming that this phenomena exists
  • Dr. Passie says that this pattern happens among people who are prone to anxiety and who are dissociative
    • He says that most subjects that claim to experience HPPD, have experienced visuals even before ever taking LSD

Microdosing

  • It has been known to not have any effects from 15-20 micrograms of LSD
    • 20-50 micrograms of LSD is considered mini-dosing, where you can feel some type of effects from it, but not as much as the full dose
  • Dr. Passie says it is strange for people to claim to have increased cognition during microdosing based on conventional data that shows that LSD produces poor cognitive function
    • He thinks that whatever the effects are of LSD at a high dose, that the effects at a low dose are the same, just less, not completely different effects
  • He believes that there is some placebo effect with microdosing
  • In terms of the microdosing trend, Dr. Passie is critical about the productivity factor, he does believe in the creativity factor though
    • The flow state may also be increased with microdosing
    • He claims that in his own experience with microdosing, he doesn’t experience the flow state, in fact he experiences a feeling of agitation

Combinations

  • In a study, when patients took a microdose first, and then a little while later, they took a different full psychedelic dose, the microdose impacted the experience of the full dose
    • It lessened the effects of the full dose psychedelic

Psychedelics and Sleep

  • Dr. Passie mentions a study where patients were given LSD, both high and low doses, during sleep
    • What was found was that LSD impacts REM sleep patterns
    • The dreams were not altered
    • The REM phases got longer during the beginning of sleep, and then much shorter near the end of sleep
  • It shows that the impact of sleeping patterns brings someone to feel much different the next day

The Microdosing Trend

  • Microdosing has much to be explored yet
  • But even if microdosing does not produce effects, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society
  • “Microdosing might be a new assimilation process of psychedelics into our culture” – Torsten
  • Instead of the 60’s where we are taking huge doses, we are taking tiny doses as a slow approach to assimilate psychedelics back into society

Links

The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics

About Dr. Torsten Passie

Torsten is a professor of psychiatry and psychotherapy affiliated with Hannover Medical School, and led the Laboratory for Consciousness and Neurocognition. He has conducted clinical research on psychoactive substances and has written several books including The Pharmacology of LSD (2010) and Healing with Entactogens (2012). Between 2012 and 2015 he was visiting professor at Harvard Medical School.

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Breaking Convention Series: David Luke – Transpersonal Ecopsychology and Psychedelics




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In this episode, hosts Kyle and Joe sit down with Psychologist, David Luke, Executive Director of Breaking Conventions, a conference on the better understanding of psychedelics. In the episode, they cover research on psychedelics and transpersonal ecopsychology.

3 Key Points:

  1. Transpersonal experiences are super powerful and can be valuable if integrated properly.
  2. Getting access to drugs at affordable prices for research is difficult for the progression of the psychedelic movement. There is a lot of red tape in studying psychedelics.
  3. There is a growing field for mapping altered states of consciousness using science and research.

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Show Notes

About David

  • David is a Psychologist
  • He works at the University of Greenwich
  • He is a co-founder of the Breaking Convention Conference

Breaking Convention

  • August 16-19, 2019 in London England
  • There are over 180 speakers, a variety of workshops, and more
  • David will be speaking about Shamanic perspectives and mapping altered states of consciousness
  • The topic of David’s speech for the conference is Ecodelia: Towards A Transpersonal Ecopsychology Through Psychedelics.

Parapsychology

  • Parapsychology is a study of phenomena that questions what we think we know about science
  • David has conducted pre-cognition experiments with ayahuasca, san pedro, mescaline

Research

  • David says it’s tricky doing this work because there is a serious amount of red tape around psychedelic studies
  • Getting access to the drugs and to get a lab to make them specifically for research is outrageously expensive
  • David says that Compass Pathways is making the research side of things easier
  • He says that he wants the proper research to be done so that it can be available for all those who need it, and for that he supports Compass Pathways, but if they were to pull something like what happened with Esketamine and making an isomer of Ketamine extremely expensive, then he will not support it

Nature and Psychedelics

  • Psychedelics provide a feeling of connectedness with nature
  • People prefer to take psychedelics outside, but overall prefer to have amazing, transformative experiences, which in turn makes them more tuned in to nature

Transpersonal Experience

  • An experience that is genuinely transpersonal can be useful
    • Typically after a transformational experience, people question their sanity, they have cognitive dissonance, their world view just isn’t suitable enough to contain a normal sense of reality anymore
    • Its common for a lot of experiences to need a lot of integration afterward
  • David leads breathwork sessions
  • He sees people who have taken loads of psychedelics come in with skepticism about Breathwork, and then leave having the most transformative experience they’ve ever have
  • “There are no limits to the human mind, and there are many ways to get there, and psychedelics are just the more obvious route.” – David
  • We get further and further away from figuring out psychedelics as a whole the more hyper-specialized we become in our individual fields
  • The psychedelic space is a really interesting territory
  • The things that Terrence McKenna would talk about years ago, we are finally starting to explore with science

Links

Otherworlds: Psychedelics and Exceptional Human Experience (Muswell Hill Press)

About David

David is Senior Lecturer in Psychology at the University of Greenwich where he teaches the Psychology of Exceptional Human Experience. He was President of the Parapsychological Association between 2009-2011 and has published more than 100 academic papers on the intersection of transpersonal experiences, anomalous phenomena and altered states of consciousness. He has co-authored/co-edited four books on psychedelics and paranormal experience, directs the Ecology, Cosmos and Consciousness salon at the institute of Ecotechnics, and co-founded Breaking Convention.

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David Krantz – Epigenetic Interactions on Substance Effects


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In this episode, Kyle interviews David Krantz, Certified Epigenetic Coach, and an expert in nutritional genomics. In the show, they talk about the effects of substances via the implications on an individual’s genetics.

3 Key Points:

  1. Epigenetic testing is a bio-hack for boosting cognitive function and harnessing our creativity and ultimate human potential.
  2. There has been a lot of research done on genetics and the effects of THC. The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally, which varies from person to person.
  3. Each person should be seen on an individual level, and the more we know about our unique genetics, the more we can understand about our interactions with different substances.

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Show Notes

About David

  • David works with clients on creating optimal epigenetic expression
  • He uses people’s genetics as a guide to look at recommendations for diet, herbs, supplements, etc.
  • He began looking at cannabis for recommendations and found curiosity in psychedelics too
  • Epigenetics studies the effects of the modification of genetics
    • It looks at chemical groups attached to the DNA itself and what happens to them over time

Cannabis and Genetics

  • The most robust area of research on genetics is THC
  • David said he has seen some research on Psilocybin and just very recently that liver enzymes are responsible for LSD interactions
  • It looks at the way people are metabolizing these substances
  • When you ingest something or smoke it, it has a higher impact on the body, edibles are a great example
    • Kyle brings up the curiosity of edibles impact being either physiological or biological
  • Genetics show the body’s cannabinoid levels
    • The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally
    • There are two enzymes that break down cannabinoids in the body, Anandamide and 2AG
  • There is a higher likelihood to use cannabis in a person with lower levels of endocannabinoids
    • This makes some people high-functioning stoners, and others non-functioning stoners
    • The substance is neutral, it’s all about the body and how it reacts to it
  • When the liver breaks down an edible, it makes THC more potent
  • There is speculation that the slow metabolizers have a better chance of passing a drug test because they don’t have a chance to convert 110HTHC to the COOHTHC

Food and Substance Effects

  • Kyle mentions someone who was drinking grapefruit juice everyday for 3 weeks, and it potentiated the effects of Ketamine
  • In order to psilocybin to be converted to psilocin, you need a chemical in your body called alkaline phosphatase
    • Vitamin C deficiency and Vitamin B-6 deficiency all both correlated with alkaline phosphatase deficiency
  • David brings up his experience going keto, it worked really great for him, his energy levels increased, he lost weight, but his wife had a horrible time with keto
    • Then he looked to genetics and it made perfect sense to him as to why it worked for him and why it failed for her
  • Metabolism, biochemistry, genetics, and so many other factors impact a person’s reaction to substances

Gene Type Testing

  • Apeiron
    • David also mentions that with companies like 23 and me, they get their money from selling people’s genetic information
    • He says Apeiron is focused on what you can actually do with the information, not just simply providing the results
  • David says its super valuable for people to know these things about themselves, how to mitigate stress, how the metabolism works, knowing what to eat, knowing vitamin deficiencies, etc.

Psychedelics in the Future of Epigenetics

  • David thinks were going to see that the epigenetics of psychedelics are going to show the ability to overcome trauma
  • When we look at people at an individual level, we all have our own idiosyncrasies and variations
  • “Because there is no such thing as an average human, let’s stop treating people like average humans and start treating them like they are individual people. Let’s stop leaving out the outliers.” – David
  • Taking an individualized approach to the psychedelic space is highly beneficial

Links

Website

Instagram

About David

David Krantz is a certified Epigenetic Coach who specializes in boosting cognitive function and helping clients harness their creative and personal power. As a lifelong musician, David sees the various systems of the body as parts of a complex symphony. And, as a coach, he excels at fine-tuning those parts to create resonant harmonious health. David also serves as Director of Psychoacoustics at Apeiron Center in Asheville, NC where he develops sound-based tools for better mood, energy, and focus. Additionally, he’s an expert in the pharmacogenetics of the endocannabinoid system and has developed a proprietary genetic test for looking at individual response to cannabinoids. A biohacker by training and artist by nature, David enjoys working with others who have a deep passion for enjoying life.

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Breaking Convention Series: Sam Gandy – Psychedelics and our Connection with Nature


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In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Sam Gandy. During the show, they cover topics including the implications psychedelics have for human well-being and the biosphere at large at a time of growing disconnection.

3 Key Points:

  1. There have been a lot of recent threats to our planet and its survival if we continue on our current path of unsustainability. Feeling connected to nature increases the human desire to take care of and heal nature.
  2. There has been an inverse correlation with our connectedness to nature and our connection with technology. Getting out in nature, as well as using psychedelics in nature, both help increase our connectedness to nature.
  3. There has been a rise in cutting edge research that reveals the capacity of psychedelic substances to enhance human-nature connection, which Sam shares snippets of throughout the episode.

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Show Notes

About Sam

  • Sam has a PhD in Ecological Science from the University of Aberdeen and a Masters in Entomology from Imperial College London
  • He has a lifelong interest in nature and wildlife and has conducted research in areas all over the world
  • He is a Scientific Assistant to the Director at the Beckley Foundation
  • He is a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at the Imperial College of London
  • Sam’s interest in psychedelics began in London when it was legal to buy mushrooms
    • He was ‘anti-drug’ until he discovered psychedelics and began to explore consciousness and a love for nature
    • His background in Ecology (the science of interconnection) has combined with the Psychedelic field
    • Sam is interested in the capacity of psychedelics to increase human-nature connection and relatedness

Saving Earth

  • There is a huge threat that our planet won’t survive past this century if we continue on our path of destruction
    • Remedying our nature disconnect is something really important if we want to survive
  • This nature disconnection is inversely proportional from our technological connection
  • We cant live without nature
    • We have to make room for all the other life going on, not just the life that directly serves humans, like crops and livestock
  • There is an increasing awareness of the need for nature connection
  • Sam mentions about humanity’s screen addiction, it raises our cortisol levels and there are many consequences such as psychological and physiological effects
    • “Contentment is the enemy of invention”
  • Psychedelics and the internet are growing alongside each other
    • Timothy Leary would say the internet is the psychedelics of the future in terms of connection
    • The internet is playing a pivotal role in access to information in this psychedelic renaissance
    • “Technology is not good or bad, it’s about how its used, the intent behind it” – Sam

Nature Disconnect

  • Sam thinks that the first step that took us away from nature is when we started farming, we became less hunter-gatherer minded and stepped away from the wild environment
    • At that point we started living in large groups (creating cities)
    • Then there was the division of labor and urbanization
  • Cities and technology are the main reasons for our disconnect with nature
  • “Long term sustainability would be one of the chief governing principles of how things are ran” – Sam

Psychedelics and Nature

  • There is something radical about psychedelics, they can convert the skeptics into appreciating nature
    • The ego dissolution character of psychedelics are a key component in feeling connected to nature
    • The default mode network (where the ego resides) becomes relaxed and dissolved, and when that happens there is a breakdown of perceived boundaries between self and others/nature
    • That dissolution of boundaries is a key component in the psychedelic experience
    • “When you feel part of it, it changes fundamentally how you relate to it” – Sam
  • One’s knowledge of nature is a very weak predictor of one’s concern for nature
    • There isn’t research of the use of psychedelics in natural settings yet, Sam hopes that as we research psychedelics more (in clinical settings) the research can evolve into studying their use in nature
    • With psilocybin, most people have claimed to have a long-term fleeting change in their connectedness to nature, that the feeling of connection doesn’t go away after the trip is over, it lasts for weeks, months, even the rest of their life

Rigid Egos and Nature Disconnection

  • Psilocybin decreases blood flow to the default mode network
  • “When we are destroying our own homes (our bodies and nature) are we falling out of love with our self?” – Kyle
    • When we dissolve the ego, we increase connection, to ourselves, to others and to nature

Future in Psychedelics

  • We are going to see the rise of Psychedelic Therapy
  • We are going to see Psychedelic groups and communities on the rise
    • From those groups, we will see projects and initiatives develop, which could bring decriminalization, integration circles, etc.
  • Sam believes the rise of depression and anxiety are a cause of our disconnection to nature, and he believes there is a lot of personal healing to be had if we get back into nature and actually play a role in healing nature too
    • Instead of trying to save the world just for our children and our children’s children, we need to look at this planet as if we were to reincarnate and come back to this planet, so we should want to look after this physical plane to make it better for future installments of ourselves

Get Connected with Nature

  • The direct, physical sensory experience with nature alone is well known to increase our connectedness with it
    • Sam suggest listeners to get out in nature and do anything! Boating, gardening, bee keeping, a walk in the woods, whatever
    • Sam really likes the art of Japanese Forest Bathing, which is about mindfulness and taking in nature, maybe combining it with breathwork exercises, etc.
    • The more mindful you feel, the more connected to nature you are, and vice versa

Final Thoughts

  • Nature connection is just a single facet of the psychedelic experience, and Sam hopes for more research on this facet in the future
  • We have a decent amount of research on psychedelics effect on people with depression, PTSD, etc, but Sam hints toward some future research on the effects of psychedelics on the healthy-normal population
  • Make time for nature in whatever way works for you
  • 2 hours of nature time a week are profoundly beneficial for health

Links

Facebook

Twitter

Email: greensam2512@hotmail.com

About Dr. Sam Gandy

Dr. Sam Gandy works on the cutting edge of psychedelic research, as Scientific Assistant to the Director of the Beckley Foundation, and as a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at Imperial College London. Sam has a lifelong love of nature and wildlife, and a PhD in ecological science from the University of Aberdeen. He has been fortunate enough to conduct field research in various parts of the world including the UK, Kefalonia, Almeria, Texas, the Peruvian Amazon, Vietnam and Ethiopia. Outside his work in the psychedelic field he has written papers, book chapters, articles and spoken at conferences and festivals on psychedelics and he is fascinated by their potential to benefit human lives.

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Veronica Hernandez and Larry Norris – Decriminalizing Nature: A Win for Plant Medicines


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In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and chat with Veronica Hernandez and Larry Norris of Decriminalize Nature Oakland. Decriminalize Nature is an educational campaign to inform Oakland residents about the value of entheogenic plants and fungi and propose a resolution to decriminalize our relationship to nature, which just recently had success in doing so.

3 Key Points:

  1. Decriminalize Nature Oakland is a campaign that just recently found success in decriminalizing psilocybin mushrooms as well as other psychedelic compounds naturally derived from plants or fungi, such as ayahuasca, peyote and DMT.
  2. The mission behind Decriminalize Nature is to improve human health and well-being by decriminalizing and expanding access to entheogenic plants and fungi through political and community organizing, education and advocacy.
  3. These decriminalization initiatives are gaining traction across many cities in the US. It’s about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there, to provide access to people everywhere.

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Show Notes

About Veronica

  • Veronica is a clinical psychologist licensed in Peru
  • She has been working in the US as a Social Worker Clinician
  • She has been combining plant medicines and spirituality back into psychology
  • She is currently finishing her PhD at CIIS

About Larry

  • He is in the same PhD program as Veronica
  • Him and Veronica are the team that created ERIE
  • In between they have taken the time to run Decriminalize Nature Oakland

Decriminalize Nature

  • In this initiative, they had to convince 8 people of city council to agree to this, in comparison to the Denver Initiative, where they needed thousands of ballot signatures
    • This bill included naturally occurring psychedelic compounds, not just mushrooms
  • Larry mentions they used the word entheogen instead of psychedelic, as a way to create new conversation around the plant medicines a reduce the stigma

A Win for Plant Medicine

  • From where Veronica comes from, Ayahuasca and other plant medicines are national patrimony, state and church can’t touch them
    • To be able to bring these to a place where it’s considered schedule 1, Veronica is super inspired about being able to make this happen
  • Right now these plants are in a tug of war between money interest of the tax side and the government, and the other side of corporate interest
    • The goal now is to educate people on what these plants do, safe practices and develop places and services to hold the space and make these plants available to people
    • It’s about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there
  • Starting city by city is typically easier to initiate, to then have a better hold on direct action and education afterward to be able to duplicate on the state level
    • They have had 50 different cities from 30 different states reach out to make this happen in their communities
  • Veronica says that her first time trying San Pedro, she had felt an immediate connection to the plants
    • It became her goal to combine conventional medicine with plant medicines and make it available to everyone
    • “To be in touch with something bigger than yourself is one of the most important things” – Veronica

Sustainability

  • Although there was no verbiage in the bill, they are being mindful about sustainability of the plants when making them more available with decriminalization
    • Synthesis is a better idea for ibogaine, 5-MEO-DMT and other compounds that are naturally derived but also pose a risk to their sustainability with decriminalization
    • The landscape just doesn’t allow for synthesis right now, so we start at decriminalization and then hopefully open doors to the route of synthesis to aid in the sustainability of these substances and resources
  • Larry’s advice is that instead of spending your money and taking a trip to Denver or Oakland, to stay home and organize this is your own community because it can actually happen
    • It starts now and it starts with education
      Joe says the most major push-back received in Denver for the decriminalization was the threat of people driving on mushrooms

Links

Website

Facebook

Instagram

Twitter

About Veronica

Veronica Hernandez, is a clinical psychologist and shamanic practitioner from Peru. Since 2006 she has been trained on shamanic facilitation. She received her clinical training at the Institute of Rational-Emotive Therapy, New York, under the supervision of Dr. Albert Ellis. She was assistant professor at the Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia and research assistant at the Hospital Psiquiátrico Noguchi de Lima (Peru). In the United States, she worked as a Social Services Clinician at John Muir Health Hospital’s Inpatient Psychiatric Adolescent Unit, California. Currently she is completing her doctoral degree at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS), San Francisco, where she is carrying out research on the healing and transformative benefits of entheogens, especially Ayahuasca.

About Larry

Larry Norris, MA, PhD Candidate is the co-founder and executive director of ERIE (Entheogenic Research, Integration, and Education) 501(c)(3), a group dedicated to the development of entheogenic research and integration models. Larry is also a co-founder and on the Board of Decriminalize Nature Oakland and helped to co-author the resolution which received an unanimous decision from Oakland City Council. Beginning his studies in cognitive science as an undergrad at the University of Michigan, he is now a PhD candidate in the East-West Psychology department at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco. His dissertation reviews archived ayahuasca experiences to identify transformational archetypes that induce insights hidden within the experiences. As adjunct faculty at CIIS, Larry taught a graduate course called Entheogenic Education: Contemporary Perspectives on Ancient Plant Wisdom in order to discuss the concept of entheogens as educational teachers and cognitive tools. He was also an adjunct faculty at John F. Kennedy University teaching a class titled Paradigms of Consciousness. A dedicated activist and proponent of cognitive liberty, Larry’s efforts are a contribution to not only change the Western legal status of these powerful plants, fungus, and compounds, but also to emphasize the potential sacred nature of entheogens given the right set and setting.

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Tom Lane – Quetzalcoatl and the Ceremony of the Deified Heart


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In this episode, Kyle talks with Tom Lane, author of Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl. In the episode, they discuss the history of Quetzalcoatl, the ceremony of the deified heart and sacred mushroom rituals.

3 Key Points:

  1. Quetzalcoatl is a feathered-serpent deity of ancient Mesoamerican culture that can come to you when partaking in the ceremony of the deified heart. Quetzalcoatl teaches how to overcome fear and hatred and bring love.
  2. The ceremony of the deified heart is a sacred mushroom ritual that when methods are combined correctly, can bring about Quetzalcoatl.
  3. In the episode, Tom tells intriguing stories of his experiences with mushroom rituals and experiencing Quetzalcoatl, including a ceremony with Maria Sabina.

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Show Notes

Quetzalcoatl

  • He was not an Aztec, he originated as a King in the Toltec civilization thousands of years before the Aztecs
  • As legend has it, where his blood fell is where the sacred mushrooms grew
  • Some people believe he was a Naga, a combination flow of energy, a male/female serpent
    • A winged, jeweled, male/female, serpent
  • In the ceremony of the deified heart, the serpent will come to you

About Tom

  • He was building geodesic domes in a remote area in Mexico
  • He had some of his first mushroom experiences, and it led him to realize that the story of mushrooms was about Quetzalcoatl
  • His first experience with the mushroom was mild
  • He said the mushrooms found him, he takes them as a sacrament

Ceremony of the Deified Heart

  • The legend was that Quetzalcoatl gave cacao to participants as an aphrodisiac and it would help release serotonin
  • The goal is not to talk a lot
  • Then, the mushrooms are to be retrieved from the ground, fresh
  • Before the ceremony, Tom says he likes to put four candles placed in all four directions
  • The key to eating the mushrooms is eating them totally covered with honey
    • You eat them two at a time, as it represents the male and female
    • And when you eat the mushrooms, you actually never swallow
    • You chew and chew and the mucous membranes of your tongue take the psilocin straight to the brain and spine
  • He says once it starts to take effect, it feels like there is a snake up your spine (He mentions his friends call this Kundalini)
  • Then you go out and Quetzalcoatl will come
    • When he comes, he is like a rainbow jeweled serpent, an embodiment of pure light, pure energy, pure love
  • Tom says the next day it feels like you’re 10 years younger
  • Its a pure force of love, an obliteration of the concept of time
  • Quetzalcoatl created this ceremony to bring about the serpent for healing, for a balance of male and female
  • This ceremony is best done during the night, with thunderstorms in the mountains

Ceremony with Maria Sabina

  • One night they went to see Maria Sabina
  • She agreed to do a ceremony at night
  • Her house was in the mountains and had a thatched roof with no windows or doors and sometimes clouds would come through her house
  • During a ceremony a lightning bolt came though the house, in one window and out the other
  • Maria’s daughter gave him truffle like mushrooms and he brought them back with him
  • Maria’s daughter really tried to learn his name, she repeated it a multitude of times until she said it exactly perfectly so she could say it during the ceremony

Quetzalcoatl Messages

  • God gave us love and pain
  • We have to learn how to celebrate the pain
  • God gave us knowledge, and tools of how to heal the pain
  • Tom’s goal is to teach people how to take the sacred mushrooms to meet Quetzalcoatl and find healing,  love and peace
  • “Once you get rid of the ego, you get rid of fear, and then you have love.” – Tom
    • The only way you can overcome hatred and fear is with love
  • The body is teaching the mind when consuming the sacred mushroom
  • It’s best to just try to love people and be kind, and it’s all acts of kindness and love that makes a person feel good

Links

Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl

About Tom Lane

Tom, Author, has a Bachelors in Forestry from the University of Tennessee and a Masters from the University of Florida in Science Education and Middle School Education. He has worked full time in the Solar Energy field as a Contractor and Trainer and has a background in Mushrooms. Tom spent some time in 1973 living in the jungles of Palenque in Mexico and learn about mushrooms and mushroom ceremony. Tom is the Author of the book, Sacred Mushroom Rituals, The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl.

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Dr. Alexander Belser – How Privilege Affects Gender Inclusivity in Psychotherapy


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In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Alexander Belser, a Clinical Researcher who has done a variety of works in the psychotherapy and psychedelic fields, helping patients heal from depression, OCD, suicide, and other illnesses, all while focusing on gender neutrality and equality. In this episode, they cover topics on privilege, inclusivity and recommendations for the psychedelic space.

3 Key Points:

  1. Privilege is commonly seen in therapist roles and as well in an individual’s access to treatment. It’s important for the psychedelic community to be vocal about privilege and be inclusive of all types of people, all repressed groups.
  2. Psychedelics have the power to help people come to terms with their own sexuality, as well as become accepting of other individuals sexual identification.
  3. In order to see more equality in the psychedelic space, we need to confront structural heterosexism and transfobia, retire the male/female therapy diad, and develop acknowledgement in the psychedelic world of the stresses that LGBTQ people face.

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Show Notes

About Alexander

  • Alexander started attending psychedelic conferences in college
  • He works at Yale currently, treating individuals with major depressive disorders with psilocybin assisted psychotherapy
  • He lives in New York and works on a team for the MAPS, MDMA trial for the treatment of PTSD

Queering Psychedelics

  • Queering Psychedelics is a Conference put on with the help of Chacruna
  • Its an opportunity for Queer folk to come together and talk about psychedelic medicine
  • Alexander’s presentation was on Queer Critique for the Psychedelic Mystical Experience

Privilege and Inclusivity

  • People with more privilege have more power, more access to funding, more access to expanding the research agenda
    • Many of the people in psychedelic research are privileged, white, cisgender individuals (and Alexander believes they are using the privilege for good)
    • But it’s important for the psychedelic community to be vocal about privilege and be inclusive of all types of people, all repressed groups
  • Alexander thinks that we need to eliminate the male/female diad
    • The typical structure for psychedelic therapy is to have a male cisgender therapist and a female cisgender therapist
    • But Alexander thinks this is gender essentializing
    • Its totalizing of gender, assuming that the masculinity is held by the male therapist, and femininity is held by the female therapist
    • Alexander thinks that the therapists should be more gender neutral
  • Its essential to assess the individual needs of the client for specific gender pairing

Recommendations

  • Alexander’s Reccomendations
    • Confront Structural Heterosexism and Transfobia
    • Retire the Male/Female Therapy Diad
    • Acknowledgement in the Psychedelic world of the stress that LGBTQ people face
  • We need to be able to run moderation analyses to see if a type of psychedelic treatment works the same for sexual minority populations as it does for straight folks
    • Are there unique clinical considerations for sexual minorities?
  • The psychedelic Renaissance is maturing and reaching a point where our approaches can be more inclusive
    • He thinks it’s important for straight folks to think about this too
    • “We all suffer, including straight folks, in a world where the idea of gender and sexuality is firmly printed as either being A or B. It’s a disservice to our identities.” – Alexander
  • It is common to feel “oneness” after a psychedelic experience, and it’s common for gender roles to change throughout the process
    • And on the flip side, maybe our perception of other people’s gender (homophobia) transforms from a psychedelic experience, and we can become more accepting of other forms of gender

Mystical Experience

  • When people score higher on the mystical experience questionnaire (profound unity, transcendence of time and space) its predictive of their improvements on depression and anxiety
  • It’s important to be mindful of what value we put on marginalized people’s psychedelic experiences
  • The most common issue Alexander sees is people feeling ‘stuck’ in these bodies
    Psychedelic medicine encourages (at least in appeal) embodiment

Final Thoughts

  • First, we need to come to terms with our own internalized homophobia, transphobia and racism
  • Together, we learn from each other, how to dismantle types of patriarchal, homophibic and transphobic structures
  • MDMA expanded access may probably end up being very expensive, we need to think about privilege and access to mental healthcare broadly
  • It’s not just about diversity, Alexander encourages people to create allies
    • He has hope that we can proceed with integrity in these topics

Links

Alexander’s website
Center for Breakthroughs

About Dr. Alexander Belser

Alexander Belser, Ph.D., is a Clinical Research Fellow and clinical supervisor at Yale University. He is the Co-Investigator of two studies at Yale exploring psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy to treat OCD and depression. His research with sexual minority people has focused on preventing suicide among adolescents and on the protective role of gay-straight alliances for students. Dr. Belser was a founding member of the Psychedelic Research Group at NYU in 2006, and he is currently an Adjunct Faculty member in NYU’s graduate program in Counseling Psychology. He has been a researcher on various psychedelic studies of depression, anxiety, OCD, addiction, trauma, and among religious leaders. He is a study therapist for the MAPS study of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD. Dr. Belser serves as a peer reviewer and has published peer-reviewed articles on topics such as psychedelic mysticism, altruism, patient experiences in psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy, cancer and psychedelic therapy, case studies, psilocybin treatment and posttraumatic growth (forthcoming).

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Ido Cohen – Re-Turn to Wholeness: Jung and Integration


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In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Ido Cohen, co-founder of The Integration Circle. In the show, they talk about themes that arise from transformative experiences and the different ways to integrate them through attitude change, environment, and community.

3 Key Points:

  1. A common theme after a transformative experience is the calling for an attitude change. The experience is only the first step, the integration is where the real work begins.
  2. The environment is a critical part of integration. You can’t always change your environment, but you can change your relationship to it by forming new coping mechanisms than the ones used before a transformative experience.
  3. Joining consciousness events, finding a therapist and looking for integration circles are all great way to not feel so ashamed or alone after a transformative experience.

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Show Notes

About Ido

  • Ido is a Clinical Psychologist based in San Francisco
    • He works with individuals and couples in integration groups
  • Ido graduated from the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)
    • He did his post-doctoral internship at C.G. Jung Institute in San Francisco
  • He went to India and it opened up the psycho-spiritual realm for him
    • He realized there is a lot more to this reality than what we see
  • He had a powerful Ayahuasca experience, and it led him to choose his dissertation project
    • He wanted to know how to take his experience and integrate it into his daily life

Integration

  • Ido began talking to people who had big transformative Ayahuasca experiences (pre, during and after)
    • He interviewed people at a year out of an Ayahuasca experience, so they had time to reflect
    • “For most people, something is calling them. Either curiosity or suffering.” – Ido
    • The message comes through a relationship that we are having with something
    • People felt that they had to go through something personal before they were able to go into archetypal realms
  • A theme afterward was a difficulty of re-entry (integration)
  • Another common theme was people realizing that they need to change their attitude in order to heal
    • It starts with small steps, maybe instead of watching TV for 2 hours you go for a hike for 2 hours, you open up to make room for change

Ego and Self

  • Jung’s idea of ego-Self axis; there is the ego that takes things and organizes them and processes things into our reality, and then the self that is the unconscious, the imaginary and dream state
    • The idea is to look at the relationship between the two
    • Are they fighting or are they in harmony?
  • The role of community is so important
    • “We need to learn to integrate not just the negatives, but also the positives.” – Ido
    • Having pleasurable experiences can feel unsafe to a person who has been through a lifetime of negatives

Transformative Experiences

  • Personal and Environmental
  • Most people have these experiences, and come back to the same urban environment, the same work mindset, the same cultural ideas about “achieving”, the instant coffee mentality
    • “We want things fast because we don’t want to suffer, we don’t want to wait, we don’t want to invest, we don’t want to change.” – Ido
    • “When people come back with this new experience but to an old environment, then the question is, ‘How can I not let the pressure of this old environment get in the way of my experience?’” – Ido
  • It really is all about changing your attitude
    • Maybe go journaling, go into nature, go dancing, etc.
    • “How do I honor my process and not succumb to the pressures of using the same coping mechanisms as I had before?” – Ido
    • Integration is a complex process

Environment

  • You can’t always change your environment, but you can change your relationship to your environment
    • You can start looking for integration circles
    • You can start looking for therapy
    • You can go to consciousness events, meditation/yoga groups
    • It really depends on the person but it’s all about finding resources that help you feel more connected, less ashamed, and less alone
  • One of Ido’s clients said to him “I realize I have to break my own heart if I really want to change”

Spiritual Bypass

Final Thoughts

  • Seek community
  • Don’t do it alone, even if you think you can, you don’t have to
  • If you’re shy, come anyway, we’re all just doing our best
  • Encourage people to seek out knowledgeable communities
  • Take yourself seriously, honor these sacred experiences and honor yourself

Links

Integration Circle Website

Instagram

Facebook

About Ido Cohen, Psy.D.

Dr. Ido Cohen is a clinical psychologist who got his doctoral from the California Institute of Integral Studies. He practices relational and depth-oriented psychotherapy with individuals and couples in San Francisco. As his Doctoral research, he conducted a 6-year study on the integration process of ayahuasca ceremonies from a Jungian perspective and has been providing preparation and integration services to individuals/couples/ groups in the bay area. He is also the co-founder of The Integration Circle, a community of practitioners who offer integration circles as well as diverse support to those who are preparing or integrating experiences of expanded states of consciousness.

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Raquel Bennett – Properties and Paradigms of Therapeutic Ketamine


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In this episode, Joe interviews Raquel Bennett, Psy.D. at Kriya Institute. In the show, they cover topics surrounding the properties and paradigms of therapeutic Ketamine use.

3 Key Points:

  1. The Kriya Institute is devoted to understanding the therapeutic properties of Ketamine. Raquel Bennett specializes in using Ketamine therapy for patients with severe treatment resistant disorders.
  2. There are three questions that should be used when determining if someone is fit for Ketamine therapy. Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it ethical?
  3. There are many different paradigms for Ketamine Therapy, but determining the best method for each individual patient is the goal.

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Show Notes

Kriya Institute

  • The Kriya Institute deals with how to work with Ketamine specifically in Psychiatry and Psychotherapy
  • Kriya provides clinical services to patients, training for other clinicians, and Kriya conference
    • The conference is a big collaborative meeting
  • Raquel is trying to create a patient assistance fund to make services more available to people

Ketamine

Ketamine isn’t addictive physically
It is possible to become psychologically addicted to Ketamine
Raquel thinks its a property of the person not of the object
It’s possible to become addicted to anything, shopping, sex, etc.

About Raquel

  • She first encountered Ketamine in 2002 when she was suffering from severe depression
    • She was seeing a therapist that took her to a psychedelic shaman where she took Ketamine
    • From the way she felt after taking Ketamine, she wanted to know if it was replicable for other people
  • She is interested in people with treatment resistant mood disorders, such as severe depression, unusual bipolar disorder and people living with active suicidal ideation
  • She remembers her teachers (who gave her Ketamine) saying they don’t use it often, and don’t know if it will work
    • They were not seeking an antidepressant effect, they were helping her to connect to the cosmos and the universe, to find out why she was having such severe depression
    • The fact that it acted as a rapid-acting antidepressant was a surprise to them, and that’s what triggered her curiosity with it
    • “Most of what I know of being a Ketamine provider, I learned from being a patient” – Raquel

Ketamine and Patents

  • Johnson and Johnson just came out with a filtered Ketamine product that they patented
    • $850 for 84mg of filtered Ketamine
    • $1.59 for 100mg of generic Ketamine
  • They are only providing it as a nasal spray
  • Companies tried to make a new molecule, but they couldn’t
    • Instead, they modified it, and filtered it, and then patented it (Esketamine)

Ketamine Treatment Paradigms

  • There is a lot of disagreement on the route, the dose, the setting importance, etc
  • This was the reason she created the Kriya conference, to share ideas, to find the best possible methods
  • One way is to give it as a low dose infusion out of the anesthesiology model (0.5mg of Ketamine per kg of bodyweight in an infusion center)
    • They aim to get enough ketamine in the patient’s body without the psychedelic effects
    • They take the normal dose, divide it by 6, and space it out to avoid the psychedelic nature
    • The patient is being forced into a passive role, they aren’t being called to heal themselves, they are just showing up for the medicine
    • Raquel says that’s not all that there is to it, the medicine is only half of it
  • Another paradigm for using Ketamine is facilitated Ketamine Psychotherapy
    • In this way, the Ketamine is used as a lubricant for talk therapy
    • We are using Ketamine to help people to talk about material that is too painful or too shameful to get to otherwise” – Raquel
    • In this paradigm, the emphasis is on the therapy, not the Ketamine, the Ketamine is a lubricant and a tool
    • In this way, the patient and the therapist are both participating 50%, the patient is not passive
    • She says the psychedelic effects are to be avoided, or else the patient becomes too far out
  • The third paradigm would be to induce mystical experience on purpose
    • As a provider, it is believed that the visions are meaningful
    • Only about 1 in 6 patients are actually a good candidate for psychedelic dosing
    • The patient is willing to offer their body up as a vessel, and the messages they receive are from God
    • The provider’s role is to make sure the journey is safe, and then help the patients to help construct meaning from what they saw, create actionable steps on how to change their lives
  • Raquel says that all of these paradigms are helpful, different methods work for different patients
    • That’s her job as a Ketamine Specialist, to determine which method is best for patients
    • “This is where the direction of the field needs to go, being aware of the spectrum of the services available, and then matching the treatment to the patient. Individualized treatment.” – Raquel

Proper Use

  • Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it ethical?
  • Is it appropriate to give Ketamine Treatment to someone without a profound impairment or disorder?
  • The literature supports the use of Ketamine for the following psychiatric or psychological disorders; major severe refractory depression, bipolar depression, physical pain with depression, recurrent suicidality and obsessive compulsive disorder
  • Do the potential benefits verify the potential risks?
  • Raquel doesn’t believe that making this experience available to everyone is the right way, her goal is to demonstrate that Ketamine is safe and useful for refractory problems

Group Administration

  • They can work with 6 clients at a time
  • It includes carefully selected individuals that all fit into the group
  • This provides a much lower cost for patients

Ketamine Types

  • There are 3 Types of Ketamine
  • The molecules themselves are not flat, they are 3 dimensional and fold in space
  • Some molecules are ‘right handed’ and others are ‘left handed’
  • Right handed molecules are Arketamine and left handed are Esketamine
  • Generic Ketamine is an even amount of Arketamine and Esketamine molecules
  • What Johnson and Johnson did with Esketamine was patenting the filtration process of removing Arketamine from the Esketamine molecules

Kriya Institute Site

  • Kriya Conference in November
  • A list of providers working with therapeutic Ketamine
  • A resource list of books and journey music
  • A Contact option

Links

Website

About Raquel Bennett

Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.

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Ben Eddy – Jiu Jitsu, Psychedelics and Flow State


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In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Ben Eddy, a Black Belt from Eddy Bravo’s 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. In this episode, they cover a range of topics on Jiu Jitsu, Psychedelics and flow state.

3 Key Points:

  1. Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything. Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ type of game, and it allowed him to tap into a flow state.
  2. Psychedelics have the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns, and when combined with a sport like Jiu Jitsu, you’re able to achieve a type of embodiment you wouldn’t have before.
  3. We do not need to rush into psychedelics at a young age. It is important to experience life for what it is first, and to feel that fully to have a comparison to after diving into the psychedelic realm.

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Show Notes

About Ben

  • Ben got into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu when looking for a way to get in shape
    • He was in San Francisco in the tech scene
    • He was into wrestling in his past and competition and he found that Jiu Jitsu was similar
  • His main instructor, Eddie Bravo, was training for a match
    • He wanted to be around the energy of this event
    • He moved down to southern California and that is where his psychedelic use began
    • Ben knew that when he was going to do psychedelics, there was going to be a before and after, that there were going to be doors that were going to be opened
    • He says he took the time to really understand the sober life before psychedelics, in order to know the difference
    • Ben describes it as a cool opportunity to wait to use psychedelics, he had the choice to wait and experience life and figure out what life is before psychedelics
    • Joe says for the younger listeners “meditate on that”, figure out life first before diving into psychedelics

Strategy vs Flow

  • Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything
    • Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ game, where there is more of a ‘flow state’
  • He was running into people that could just ‘find answers in the moment’, there was no plan or no strategy, it was a natural flow

Psychedelics and Training

  • Training with an active dose was hard to get to at the start
  • Ben trains now with active doses
  • It has the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns
  • Ben’s active dose is 2 grams of mushrooms during a practice
    • Ben does mention that all people are different and his active dose is different than anyone else’s
  • Jiu Jitsu makes you bring everything that you have up to the forefront in that moment
    • Feeling is a way of knowing, especially in these flow states
  • He says that weed is commonly used in Jiu Jitsu, but he hasn’t seen a whole lot of Psychedelic use yet
    • Ben says that weed helps you drop into the one instrument that you’re trying to play, get into that flow state
  • Jiu Jitsu is a sport of form, technique, and dance, it’s not about strength

Origins

  • Jiu Jitsu came from Japan and their Judo
    • Then it came to Brazil and mixed with the beach vibes and turned into Jiu Jitsu
    • Then it came to the west and our beaches and developed into what it is today
  • Kyle mentions the idea of using Paul Stamets ‘microdosing’, psilocybin, lions mane and niacin
    • In that state we are creating new neurogenesis and neural pathways and being in that state may make us learn differently
    • Kyle says its an interesting application for performance and new ways of learning
    • Ben says the goal is to get to a certain level of embodiment, at every point you’re trying to be present in the here and now

Music

  • After Jiu Jitsu, music took on a whole new color, feel and wave for Ben than it did before
    • He thought music was a distraction
    • Once he started to play with flow more, he began to open up to music to live in it
  • Jiu Jitsu and the flow state really start with the breath
    • Its like breathing in and accepting life, and the exhale is where it all lets go

Links

10th Planet Jiu Jitsu

About Ben

Ben Eddy is a Blackbelt at 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. Starting off in the tech scene in San Fransisco, Ben relocated to southern California, where he began his journey into Jiu Jitsu, psychedelics and tapping into the flow state. He currently travels and competes.

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Hamilton Souther – The Incredible Journey into Shamanism and a Life of Service

Hamilton Souther


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In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview Hamilton Souther, Shaman of Blue Morpho. In this episode, they cover Hamilton’s incredible journey from Western life into becoming a Shaman and the spirit teachings that he experienced along the way.

3 Key Points:

  1. Hamilton Souther, a Shaman of Blue Morpho, shares his experience from living a normal Western life to his journey of his calling, learning and training to become a Shaman. He shares amazing examples of connectedness and spirit while living amongst the natives.
  2. A common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony is that the plants care for you. The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving.
  3. Shamanic training is a long and extremely difficult journey. Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it.

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Show Notes

About Hamilton

  • He grew up in Silicon Valley
  • He went to CU Boulder for Anthropology
    • He was interested in humanity
    • He wanted to travel and had opportunities to
  • He had some near death experiences and accidents when he was younger
  • The year after he graduated from college he would go into spontaneous awakenings and altered states of consciousness while totally sober
    • He would have really intense visionary experiences in those states
    • Those experiences were so powerful which led him into training and into his Ayahuasca experiences
  • He felt without purpose and gave himself up to something greater
  • He turned to shamanism to try to explain the nature of those experiences

Spontaneous Awakening

  • Kyle mentions that this can happen, that substances are not always required for an ‘awakening’
  • Hamilton says he wanted to connect to something other than himself
    • The path took him to Peru, and there was a possibility of meeting people with Ayahuasca
    • He was being called to it and knew they were real and it led to his ‘apprenticeship’ as a Shaman
    • It wasn’t by accident that he was there, he had visions that he was supposed to stay there and to learn

Discernment

  • Coming from a scientific background, he demanded (from the spirit guide) that the process be practical and grounded in reason and logic
    • He used doubt in a way that he was able to use a lot of proof and truth toward his belief system rather than just being naive and believing these messages too early
  • He couldn’t envision how to evolve from the vomiting, defecating human on the ground to the composed shaman in the room
  • Even though he spoke the language, he couldn’t understand what the people were saying when they shared their stories
    • It seemed like a different world to him
  • The first few years were learning how to survive in the jungle and learn how to live off of the food
    • He says it was like reliving his childhood, he had no idea how to walk through the forest like he knew how to walk down a street growing up
    • The first house he lived in out of college was one he built himself with locals
  • These experiences were so far from what he grew up in
  • Toward the end of his apprenticeship, ceremony started to look less impossible and more of something he would dedicate his life to

Spirit

  • In the indigenous communities, everybody sees spirits, especially at night
  • And not just in the Ayahuasca culture, its everybody. They thought the jungle was literally alive with spirits
  • They would say things like “call me if you need me” and they meant it telepathically
  • Hamilton says “sure enough, they do answer when you call”.
    • He was in Southern Peru at a pizzeria, and they were in ceremony, and they started to call to him
    • He had to excuse himself from the table and go outside and sit with himself and went into an Ayahuasca vision and the two men in ceremony said to him in the vision “we just wanted to call to say hi”
    • So Hamilton, using his doubt, wrote down the place and the time of when this happened, and when he returned from his travels and got back to the community, the two men gave him the coordinates and time where Hamilton was when they called him. It matched perfectly
    • He realized then and there that they had a very different understanding of the forest and of space time and they were tapped into another kind of knowledge and wisdom
    • That’s what he was looking for when he came down to the Amazon in the first place
    • “The mysteries of consciousness are really unexplored and are not studied by science at all” – Hamilton
    • For Westerners, reality and how it is experienced is just a tiny slice of total consciousness
  • “When you’re in the amazon, and you’re living in the forest and you’re participating in these visionary experiences, you see the interconnectedness of life.” – Hamilton
  • “Globally we’ve all agreed that education, literacy and participating in the economy is worth it. I think it’s worth it to really address on a massive scale what were facing collectively. It’s a part of our natural evolution.” – Hamilton
  • The plants have a very specific role to play, and that they care
    • That’s a common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony, that the plants care for you
    • The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving
    • Especially with the environmental crisis, people who turn to Ayahuasca start to care for the environment
  • Psychedelic plants have a huge role to play in global life, individual growth and collective change

Blue Morpho

  • Its a center that Hamilton and the shamans that he works with created
  • They did a ceremony to talk with the plants to make sure that this was okay to use as an offering to everyone
  • It started in 2003 and evolved over the years to practice traditional ceremony and now San Pedro
  • People come from all over the world to visit them
  • The majority of the people are really coming for the right reasons, with clear intentions for transformation, growth, exploration and personal healing
  • Over 17 years they have focused on bettering services and professionalism and they believe they have truly succeeded
  • Ayahuasca is just one aspect of Amazonian plant medicine
    • There are hundred of plants with medicinal healing properties
    • The Dieta is a period of time where you go into deep individual isolation and connection to a specific medicinal plant where you create a relationship with a plant
    • Then you go into the Ayahuasca ceremony and Icaros are sung and you drink the Ayahuasca
    • Then the Dieta is a time where there are restrictions such as abstinence, no alcohol, strict food diet, no medications, etc. and you go into a meditative state for healing for a time of a few days, to weeks to even months

Shaman Training

  • Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it
  • Then, you find a lineage of shamans that are willing to accept you (if you aren’t born into a lineage of shamans)
  • It’s a journey, and you have to find a group of people open for training
    • It’s different from any kind of training from the western world, it’s a tremendous journey, and it could take years to decades
    • Its meant to be a test, and incredibly difficult
    • When Hamilton trained, he was told that 1 out of 100 make it to be actual shamans
  • It’s really a job of service, not an exalted one
    • The reason the training is so incredibly difficult, is so that you can sit with people, who are going through extremely difficult, and transformational experiences and you can be there for them and love and support them unconditionally with the strength gained through the training process
    • “Its a role of service, you have to be able to deal with any form of suffering that people come to you with.” – Hamilton

Final Thoughts

  • Stay open minded
  • He warns about a dystopian world
  • We need to be the change makers, and there is a lot we can do
    • We are incredibly powerful, especially when we are united in common goals
    • Whether they are about human rights or the climate
  • There is something mysterious about life itself

Links

About Hamilton Souther

Hamilton Souther

Hamilton focuses his work on Universal Spiritual Philosophy. He is bilingual in English and Spanish, has a Bachelors degree in Anthropology, and has studied shamanism in California, Cusco, and the Amazon. Hamilton was given the title of Master Shaman by Alberto Torres Davila and Julio Llerena Pinedo after completing an apprenticeship under Alberto and Julio. He guides ceremonies and leads shamanic workshops, in which he shares Universal Spiritual Philosophy.

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Sean McAllister – The Successful Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization Initiative in Denver

sean mcallister


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In this episode, Joe records with Sean McAllister, an attorney who helped advise Decriminalize Denver. During this special, extra episode, Sean helps us understand the language in the recent bill for Mushroom Decriminalization in Denver, CO.

3 Key Points:

  1. Recently, Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization passed on the ballot in Denver, CO.
  2. Psilocybin mushrooms have not been made legal, they have simply been decriminalized. This means that Denver has the lowest law enforcement priority around psilocybin and that no money can be used to criminalize this behavior.
  3. Decriminalization of Psilocybin in Denver is a big step toward changing the stigma around psychedelics. But we need to be careful, decriminalization is just a tiny step in the right direction and we need to be respectful and responsible with this initiative.

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Show Notes

On May 8th, the city of Denver, Colorado voted yes on I-301, which decriminalizes the possession and use of Psilocybin-containing mushrooms. The official results will be certified on May 16th. As of May 9th – the unofficial results are – yes (50.6%) and no (49.4%). 

I-301 decriminalizes adult (21 years or older) possession and use of Psilocybin mushrooms – making these offenses the lowest priority for law enforcement. This initiative also prohibits law enforcement to spend money and resources enforcing arresting adults with possession of mushrooms. 

Sean’s Role in the Mushroom Decriminalization in Denver, CO

  • Sean is an Attorney with McAllister Garfield Law Firm in Denver
  • He has done a lot with cannabis law since 2005
  • He heard about the Mushroom Decriminalization campaign and began working with them
  • His role started in January to help the team understand what it would look like if the bill passed and his role definitely continues going forward now that it has passed

What the Vote Means

  • “Decriminalize” means just that
    • Psilocybin mushrooms have not been made legal, they have simply been decriminalized
    • “You should never be arrested for putting something in your body that grows naturally in nature.” – Sean
  • This means that Denver has the lowest law enforcement priority around Psilocybin
    • It’s not legal, it’s not regulated
  • This bill means that a person cannot be imprisoned for possession and cultivation for personal possession amounts
  • The city is not supposed to spend any money to criminalize this behavior
  • You can grow them to eat them yourself, but you can’t grow them to sell them
    • This also doesn’t mean that groups can host events and ‘give out’ mushrooms as a gift in return for a donation, this is not good behavior for this initiative
  • This initiative is simply a first step at looking at mushrooms in a better light and reducing the stigma
  • For the benefit of this bill passing, we have to be careful about amounts, the smaller the amount of mushrooms the better
    • There isn’t an amount listed in the bill to distinguish between personal use and intent to sell
  • The city has to establish a review commission
    • What this commission is supposed to do is track the public safety impact, use, criminal justice impact, etc
    • We hope and guess that psilocybin will not impact any of these, just like how marijuana did not impact anything for the worse when it was decriminalized
    • Once the city sees the results, they won’t have so much stigma about it, and Denver will lead the way for the state and the rest of the nation for sensible drug policy

Political Pushback

  • The typical response was “we already legalized marijuana, let’s not jump to something else”
  • Sean thinks this gives Denver an amazing reputation, that it understands therapeutic ability and research and no tolerance for the drug war
  • “We need a system that addresses public safety concerns but maintains as much personal liberty as possible on these topics” – Sean

Other Initiatives

  • Sean is a part of Chacruna, based in San Francisco
  • Oakland is attempting to Decriminalize Nature, which by nature means all naturally occurring substances
    • They aren’t on a ballot, they are looking to convince city council to agree with it and accept it
  • California attempted to raise signatures to be on the ballot in the 2018 election but it failed to get on the ballot
  • Oregon is now collecting signatures to get on the ballot at the state level in 2020
    • Oregon’s model is for medicalization, Sean expresses concern for a purely medical model
    • Between big pharma and quiet equity firms, they want to monetize on psychedelics like they did with marijuana, and that’s what we risk with medicalization
  • Psychedelic Liberty Summit in 2020 in the Bay Area will be to talk about the rights and wrongs around psychedelic initiatives

Final Thoughts

  • Sean mentions a possible system that revolves around a licensing structure
    • Similar to how we get a drivers license; we practice, we take tests, etc.
    • For psychedelics, we would need to learn the effects, harm reduction techniques, take tests to verify our knowledge, etc and receive a license that allows us to use psychedelics freely
    • If we abuse psychedelics and use them improperly, then we would get our license taken away, suspended, etc.
  • Overall, after this initiative passing, we have to be careful we don’t ruin this victory with poor behavior
  • Let’s just do what we’re doing respectfully, responsibly, and to ourselves

Links

About Sean McAllister

Sean T. McAllister is one of the nation’s leading cannabis business attorneys, licensed to practice law in both Colorado and California. Sean’s legal work focuses on the complex interplay between corporate law and state cannabis regulatory structures and federal law. Sean is a recognized leader in the cannabis industry. In 2004, he founded Sensible Colorado, which worked on all of the ballot initiatives in Colorado that culminated in recreational cannabis legalization in 2012.

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Shane Lemaster – Reaching the Maximum Potential of our Minds

Shane LeMaster


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In this episode, Joe talks with Shane LeMaster, Licensed Addiction Counselor and Certified Mental Performance Consultant. Shane is also involved in Psychotherapy as well as Sport and Performance Psychology and Psychedelic Integration Therapy. In this episode they cover a range of topics such as social work, Ketamine, sensory deprivation, psychedelic icons and the psychedelic culture.

3 Key Points:

  1. Shane has a podcast of his own, and his goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them, to master the potential of our minds.
  2. Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics. Its also a great place to start for therapy.
  3. Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
    If we don’t have differences then we won’t have styles to choose from.

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Show Notes

About Shane

  • Joe and Shane met up recently at a Psychedelic Club meeting about harm reduction in Fort Collins
  • Shane just got accepted into the PhD program in social work at CSU
    • He had been pursuing a PhD program in psychology and it wasn’t working out for him so he decided to take the social work route
    • He works with many people and has developed a strong skill set on the micro level and he wants to start making impact on a macro level with helping people

Social Work

  • Shane thinks of social work as an integrative approach for every discipline that we find useful, to come to a holistic, greater understanding of an issue
  • Shane wants to use Ketamine as a ‘medium’ term goal, because it’s legal
    • But ketamine is not where he is going to stop, he finds there are benefits in many other substances
    • He would love to work with LSD and Psilocybin
    • He will continue to offer his services through his business Mind Ops
  • Shane’s Podcast – Conversations with the Mind
    • His goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them
    • It’s important to create dialogue and invite people for conversation with differing opinions
    • The goal is to create a theory that implements both opinions

Ketamine

  • Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics
  • Shane has had a lot of personal and recreational experiences on Ketamine and when he returns to it as a medicine, he is able to attain and sharpen skills for mindfulness
  • Joe brings up the idea that recreational ketamine could have the ability to bring up past trauma or may re-traumatize someone if not used therapeutically
    • Ketamine has a lot of risks, but being educated and using the substance correctly can be absolutely beneficial
    • Shane says we shouldn’t try to avoid trauma, we should accept it and use it for good and let it power us
    • “Sometimes we don’t even know what were suppressing. We need some assistance to show us what were avoiding in life and I think that psychedelics help with that a lot.” – Shane

Sensory Deprivation

  • Shane says he’s interested in John Lilly’s work from back in the day and his terminology of being able to meta-program your human brain
  • Joe says John Lilly was a big part of isolation chambers which led to float tanks

Psychedelic Icons

  • Joe mentions Robert Anton Wilson, he was good friends with Timothy Leary
  • “My interest is not in psychedelics themselves, but psychedelics as a means to access higher states of who we are, parts we have forgotten.” – Shane
  • Psychedelics are just one way to tap into ourselves and discover our ultimate potential
  • “We should all be questioning, everyday, changing our belief systems” – Shane
  • “Belief is the death of intelligence” – Robert Anton Wilson
  • Shane says a lot of people give Leary a bad rap, but Shane appreciates what he has done
  • Joe mentions ‘smile squared’ – Space, migration, intelligence and life extension
  • TFYQA – Think for yourself question authority
  • “Turn on, Tune in, Drop out” – Timothy Leary
    • Shane says that phrase sticks with him, it called to his rebel phase in youth to grow and do this work in his life

The Psychedelic Culture

  • Splitting – a rephrase of divide and conquer
  • Joe says the psychedelic world is very cut throat
    • “We should take care of each other a bit more in this space” – Joe
    • Shane says, we need to lift each other up versus look for ways to step over each other
    • Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
    • If we don’t have differences then we don’t have styles to choose from
    • “We can’t become fundamentalists in our own practices, we need to value the differences culturally and from a world view. They are all valuable.” – Shane

Links

Website

Mind Op Youtube 
Podcast

About Shane

Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.

Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.

He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.

His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.

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Veronika Gold – Methods of Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy


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In this episode, Kyle hosts a conversation with Veronika Gold from the Polaris Insight Center, a center that offers Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy. They compare and contrast Ketamine Psychotherapy methods and Ketamine Infusion.

3 Key Points:

  1. The most studied way of using Ketamine has been infusion, mainly used for treatment resistant depression and PTSD. Veronika used lozenges and intramuscular Ketamine therapy working for Polaris.
  2. When people are healed from depression, there is a lot of anxiety and activation that happens. Infusion clinics don’t offer the therapeutic help that comes with Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy.
  3. The dissociation that happens with Ketamine is a different dissociation that happens with trauma. With trauma, dissociation happens when the nervous system can’t handle the stress in someone’s life, with Ketamine, it allows people who feel dissociated from their trauma, to feel again.

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Show Notes

About Veronika

  • She specialized in trauma treatment
  • She is involved in the clinical trials for the treatment of PTSD, sponsored by MAPS in San Francisco
  • Veronika is originally from Czech Republic
  • She studied at CIIS
  • She grew up in the Czech Republic in a communist time so she dealt with a lot of trauma
  • She met Stan Grof at 16 at a Transpersonal conference
    • She was fascinated with his work and Transpersonal Breathwork became a part of her healing
    • It lead her to study psychology and become a psychotherapist and study non-ordinary states

Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy

  • Ketamine therapy has been studied from the late 60’s until today
    • The most studied way of using Ketamine has been infusion, mainly used for treatment resistant depression and PTSD
  • In Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy, the therapy is as important as the medicine
    • There is a biochemical effect of Ketamine
    • When people are healed from depression, there is a lot of anxiety and activation that happens
  • Infusion clinics don’t offer the therapeutic help that comes with Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy

Benefits of Ketamine Psychotherapy

  • The treatment method used at Polaris includes a comfortable room, eye shades, music tailored to the therapy, and an ongoing therapist
  • They use non-ordinary states of consciousness as a part of the transformation
  • They use lozenges and IM (Intramuscular)
    • Only 30% of the ketamine from the lozenges are effective
    • The lozenges allow for a slow onset of the medicine
  • With IM, a higher dose can be used because it’s less taxing on the body and more effective
    • The property of Ketamine is dissociation
    • Veronika says she prompts people to explain where they are, to share about what comes up for them
    • “Sometimes there are memories that come up that are connected to their struggle. Sometimes they do full trauma processing. There are times where they go inside and then come out.” – Veronika

Ketamine vs. Classic Psychedelics

  • They used Ketamine as a means to do the work legally
  • For the work that is being done underground, the therapists are putting themselves at risk for legality, and it does impact set and setting
    • But even if other substances were legal, Veronika thinks Ketamine will still be used for certain issues
  • Ketamine is described as a +4 on Shulgin’s scale
  • A moderate to high dose can allow people to have a near death experience or ‘review of their life’
  • The dissociation that happens with Ketamine is a different dissociation that happens with trauma
    • With trauma, dissociation happens when the nervous system can’t handle the stress
    • Opposingly, with Ketamine, it allows people who feel dissociated, to feel again
  • Veronika mentions a study that says the higher the effects of dissociation from a Ketamine session, the higher the antidepressant effects are.
  • She has work in somatic studies and organic intelligence

Breathwork

  • Veronika’s experience with Breathwork helps her understand her patients
    • The bodily experience that happens in Breathwork also helps her understand the body movement/energetic blockages, etc that happen in Ketamine therapy
  • The last 30-90 minutes is where the integration starts

Sessions

  • They do mainly one-on-one session but have done a few pair therapy sessions
    • Veronika says its easier to do one-on-one because the sessions are short and there is a lot of internal work

The Future of Ketamine

  • Veronika is excited about people’s curiosity with Ketamine therapy and the effectivity of it
  • Ketamine is a new and emerging field and we are figuring out who it is useful for and who it is not
  • Veronika says that non-ordinary states are all beneficial for healing, and not having to use Ketamine (using Breathwork) is still beneficial
  • “A big part of the healing is having a positive experience and connecting with places that feel good, having positive visions. Its supportive for our nervous system and our ability to heal.” – Veronika
  • “When we allow the inner healing intelligence to come through, it will take us to where we need to go.” – Veronika
  • Patients don’t always need to just feel the dark stuff and the trauma, sometimes sitting with the good feelings and remembering what good feels like is a part of the healing too
  • Kyle and Veronika were both on separate episodes of the Consciousness Podcast with Stuart Preston

Links

Website

Polaris

About Veronika Gold

Veronika Gold

Veronika has expertise in the treatment of trauma. Her approach is integrative and informed by Somatic Therapies, contemplative practices, and mindfulness. She also has an interest in educating others about the healing and transformational potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness.

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Matthew Remski – Cultic Mechanisms and After Effects of High Demand Group Life

Matthew Remski


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In this episode, Joe talks with Matthew Remski, yoga teacher, consultant and author. In the show they talk about high demand group life and their cultic mechanisms, and the after effects of living in a high demand group setting.

3 Key Points:

  1. Matthew Remski shares his experience of spending most of his 20’s in cults, and his healing journey afterward.
  2. Cults aren’t defined by their content (political, religious, psychedelic), they are defined by their element of control. Another term for a ‘cult’ is a high demand group.
  3. High demand groups can be very appealing from the outside, no one signs up for the rape, torture, or manipulative experiences that happen inside of a cult. And the after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, such as PTSD, inability to form romantic relationships, etc.

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Show Notes

About Matthew

  • Yoga was a safe space of retreat and recuperation after being in cults
  • He was in a cult for 3 years led by Michael Roach at the Asian Classics Institute
  • He was in Endeavor Academy for 6 years in Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin
  • These experiences gave him group dynamic perspective
  • Yoga gave him somatic autonomy, and allowed him to feel himself again after the cultic nature of the groups
  • He spent age 22-29 in these groups where we would have built some sort of career, and he didn’t
  • He became a yoga teacher and opened his own yoga studio as a part of his healing

Cults

  • People end up doing harm to themselves, or do things that they didn’t sign up for
    • An organization misrepresents itself, and presents itself as a safe haven for people who may be vulnerable for any reason
  • High Demand Organization, along with other synonyms, are other words for ‘cult’
  • ‘Self Sealed’ implies that everything that happens within the group is to have the individual think it’s for the ‘good’, a ‘bounded choice’ environment (saying that sexual advances or torture are a part of the development toward enlightenment, for example)
  • The high demand group rewires a person’s attachment patterns to make them ‘unattached’
  • Steve Hassan’s BITE model
    • Behavior Control
    • Information Control
    • Thought Control
    • Emotional Control
  • The content of the cult doesn’t matter (religious, psychedelic, political, etc), it’s the element of control that is the same amongst true cults
    • There can be political groups that aren’t cults, but the element of control is what defines it as a cult
  • Octavio Rettig and Gerry Sandoval
    • They are perhaps responsible for multiple deaths (maybe not directly but through negligence)
    • They use 5-MEO-DMT with abuse and malpractice

Cult Impact

  • The impact from a cult can be cognitive, labor related, relationship/family oriented, etc.
    • Matthew says the estrangement from his family has taken over a decade to repair
    • The relationships he had prior, has been unable to restored
  • His identity was changed for him through social coercion
  • “The cult takes its best possible part of you for its own agenda” – Matthew
  • The after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, they can have PTSD, they may not be able to form romantic bonds, they may become estranged from their family, etc.
  • Recent estimates in the US alone say that there are 8,000 high demand groups
    • These dynamics can be found in many organizations
  • Wild Wild Country – When a controversial cult leader builds a Utopian city in the Oregon desert, conflict with the locals escalates into a national scandal

Psychotherapy Cult

  • Psychotherapy cults look like a Buddhist or yoga cult but with different group practice techniques
    • They will depend upon group psychotherapy that break down and humiliate members and create fear that looks like love and acceptance
    • It includes members revealing intense secrets so they become vulnerable

Practice And All Is Coming: Abuse, Cult Dynamics, And Healing In Yoga And Beyond

  • Matthew’s book is applicable in many different community constellations
    • His intention is to help foster critical thinking and community health
  • Joe says that anyone in a group dynamic or especially those leading groups (such as an ayahuasca circle) need to read this book

Practice And All Is Coming: Abuse, Cult Dynamics, And Healing In Yoga And Beyond

Links

Website

About Matthew

Matthew Remski

Matthew has been practicing meditation and yoga since 1996, sitting and moving with teachers from the Tibetan Buddhist, Kripalu, Ashtanga, and Iyengar streams. Along the way he has trained as a yoga therapist and an Ayurvedic consultant, and maintained a private practice in Toronto from 2007 to 2015. From 2008 through 2012, he co-directed Yoga Festival Toronto and Yoga Community Toronto, non-profit activist organizations dedicated to promoting open dialogue and accessibility. During that same period, he studied jyotiśhāstra in a small oral-culture setting at the Vidya Institute in Toronto. Matthew currently facilitates programming for yoga trainings internationally, focusing on yoga philosophy, meditation, Ayurveda, and the social psychology of practice. In all subject areas, he encourages students to explore how yoga practice can resist the psychic and material dominance of neoliberalism, and the quickening pace of environmental destruction.

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Dr. Andrew Gallimore – Accessing High-dimensional Intelligence through DMT

Dr. Andrew Gallimore


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In this episode, Joe interviews Computational Neuro-Biologist, Dr. Andrew Gallimore, one of the world’s knowledgeable researchers on DMT. In the show they discuss DMT and the possibilities of being in an extended state of DMT, such as accessing higher dimensions and communicating with intelligent entities.

3 Key Points:

  1. This reality that we are in is a lower dimensional slice of a higher dimensional structure. DMT is a technology or tool that allows us access to reach out to these higher dimensions.
  2. Andrew has developed and written about the Intravenous Infusion Model, which allows a timed and steady release of DMT to induce an extended state DMT experience.
  3. Extended state DMT hypothesizes that with enough time spent in the DMT space, the ‘map’ of the space would begin stabilize over time and you could develop a ‘life’ in the DMT space like we do in our waking life.

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Show Notes

About Andrew

  • Since age 15, he was into psychedelic drugs and altered states of consciousness
    • He was at a friends house and was looking at a book called Alternative London and it had writings on different psychedelics but only a very short segment on DMT
    • His fascination grew from his yearning to learn more about DMT
  • His interest turned into academic work, learning chemistry and pharmacology and he is now into learning more about the brain itself
  • He is currently a Computational Neuro-Biologist

DMT

  • DMT is a compound found almost everywhere in nature, highly illegal, yet highly interesting
    • Interaction with entities are common
    • All frames of reference are gone
  • Andrew says that the first few times were very intense and he would come back with no way to comprehend or describe it
    • Then after a few more times he started to see the entities and have a more stable experience with more intent
  • Andrew describes a very vivid experience of a man in a dark robe where he asked him “show me what you’ve got” and he opened his mouth and Andrew woke up a if he had seen God himself. He describes it as a shattering experience
    • These beings in the DMT experience, aren’t just pointless beings in a dream, they are powerful and extremely intelligent
    • We don’t have any way to comprehend the levels of intelligence in this dimensional space, we only are ever able to experience intelligence with our human capacity for what intelligence is
    • There is a sense that these beings are intelligent because they have been around for billions and billions of years or potentially infinitely

Communicating with Intelligent Entities

  • He calls his book the ‘textbook of the future’
  • “We are imprisoned in some kind of work of art” – Terence McKenna
  • This reality is a construct or artifact of the alien intelligence or the ‘other’
  • “This reality that we are in is a lower dimensional slice of a higher dimensional structure. DMT is a technology or tool that allows us access to reach out to these higher dimensions” – Andrew
  • DMT is everywhere
    • “Nature is drenched in DMT, but it takes a high level of sophisticated intelligence to identify it, isolate it, and discover a means of using it as a tool” – Dennis McKenna
    • “In order to communicate with these beings, we need to bring the right tools to the table” – Andrew
  • Target Controlled Intravenous Infusion Model – using the same model for DMT as the anesthesia model
    • It uses administration of a short acting drug using a mathematical model to control the release
    • “We are not just passive receivers of information but we are actively constructing our world from moment to moment.” – Andrew
  • Continuity Hypothesis of Dreaming – it says that dreaming is continuous with our waking life, the brain constructs the world when you’re asleep in the same way that it does when you’re awake

Extended State DMT (DMTx)

  • Our brains are constantly updating its model of reality, so if you put someone through the DMT space for months at a time, that person’s model of reality would completely shift
    • This idea has been completely unexplored
    • The hypothesis is that an extended time in the DMT space would begin to make that space more stable over time, the goal being to live in the DMT space as you would in this reality of waking life
  • The measurement of DMT in the blood with Ayahuasca is 1/5th the level of DMT in the blood as a breakthrough DMT experience
  • Andrew hasn’t heard of anyone trying the Intravenous Infusion Model yet
  • There is this space that exists one quantum away, and it is accessible by everyone (technologically, not necessarily legally)
    • Inter-dimensional citizenship is close at hand

Links

Book
Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game

Website

Instagram

Twitter 

About Dr. Andrew Gallimore

Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.

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East Forest – Creating Ritual for Journeywork through Sound

East Forest


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In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview music artist, East Forest. Influenced by psychedelic Psilocybin sessions, Trevor Oswalt, the mind behind the project, produces soundtracks for psychedelic journeywork sessions.

3 Key Points:

  1. East Forest is a music artist and producer with a mission to create a playground of doors for listeners to open and to explore their inner space.
  2. His recent project, ‘Ram Dass’, captures the words of wisdom of Ram Dass and pairs it with sound, a project with four chapters that will release throughout 2019.
  3. Ayahuasca is connected to the Icaros, but psilocybin doesn’t have a music ritual. His goal with his project, Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner, is to bring ritual to psilocybin journeywork.

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Show Notes

About (Trevor Oswalt) East Forest

  • East Forest is a 10 years and running music project that unfolded exploring into sharing and medicine circles and developed into a public interface
  • Its based around introspection and tools for people to use
  • Between retreats, podcasts and live performance, Trevor is inviting people in to assist with their journeys

Ram Dass

  • Trevor is working on a 4 part record project with Ram Dass
    • He had the idea to do a record with spiritual teachers
  • Ram Dass had a stroke 20 years ago, and he got Aphasia from it
    • It would take him 15-30 minutes to answer a question, so Trevor would put it to the music and put Ram’s words on the pauses in the music
    • His wisdom and story would come alive in the songs
  • The first time Ram Dass did psilocybin was with Timothy Leary and he said it changed his life
  • Ram Dass talks about the ‘witness consciousness’ a viewpoint of things from the soul
    • It is a place where you can love everyone and tell your truth and accept your dark thoughts
    • You can’t get rid of your dark thoughts, but you can learn to live with them

Journeywork Soundtrack

  • Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner
    • Its a 5 hour playlist for journeywork that guides you and helps you do the work
    • He made it live during his own journeywork session over a weekend the previous summer
    • He says he is influenced by Keith Jarrett, who does long form pianist pieces
  • Joe says trance in music is under explored
  • Trevor describes a trip that he had where he took mushrooms and listened to his own (first) album that he made
    • “It was as if I created this album without knowing what I was creating. My soul had tricked my ego into doing it so I could use it as a tool in that moment to transform into something new.” – Trevor
    • There is a lot of music, science, and arts that are inspired by psychedelics
    • He describes its a symbiotic relationship between psychedelics and music
    • That’s the thing about art, you put it out there and everyone puts their own meaning to it
  • His first experience with psychedelics was in college with mushrooms
    • He was outside at a festival and it was a very transcendent, blissful experience

Retreats

  • He attends retreats where there is either yoga, wilderness hikes or mainly revolved around music
    • He does a retreat using music at Esalen with his partner, Marisa Radha Weppner
    • They are doing another retreat in June at Esalen during the summer solstice and he will also be releasing the third chapter of the Ram Dass Record
    • Next Esalen Retreat

Sound

  • He went to Vassar college in New York and there were pianos all over the school, he learned how to play simple songs and was shocked of how great it sounded coming to life and that fed on itself and he was hooked
    • His first album was made in iMac with pro tools and his skills developed from there
  • Sound quality is critical in journeywork
  • Joe’s friend has mentioned that it’s hard to make a living as a music creator, she goes by Living Light
  • Joe also mentions a festival he attended listening to Reed Mathis and the Electric Beethoven
    • They went on a 20-30 minute talk about how the music is a ritual
  • Kyle used to lead some hikes, once was with Trevor Hall and it has gotten more common to collaborate these experiences with music

Live Music

  • During Ayahuasca, the shamans sing the Icaros, and the song is a part of the ritual
    • No one uses Ayahuasca recreationally, the ceremony has never been detached from the drug
    • With psilocybin, in the western culture, it’s almost always only been used recreationally
    • His goal was to create a new musical tradition that would speak to our western years and make sense to us without taking from another religion and putting it to our ritual

Links

Website

About East Forest

East Forest is an American Ambient/Electronic/Contemporary Classical/Indie Pop artist from Portland, Oregon, United States. The project was created by Trevor Oswalt who derived “East Forest” from the German translation of his last name. To date he has released eight full-length albums and six EPs. East Forest’s newest release, “RAM DASS” is a full length album releasing in collaboration with the acclaimed spiritual teacher. Covering topics such as dark thoughts, nature, the soul and so much more, these songs are full of inspiration. The album will release in four “chapters” throughout 2019, culminating in a full length release on August 9, 2019.

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The Teafaerie – Psychedelic Emergenc(y), Shamanism, 5-MeO-DMT and more!


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In this Bonus episode The Teafaerie and Joe Moore get into lots of great topics. Enjoy! !

The Teafaerie micro-bio(me)

The Teafaerie is a writer, flow arts teacher, ruespieler, toy inventor, app designer, street performer, party promoter, and superhero.
erowid.org/columns/teafaerie

Some links

Event in Ran Rafael, CA w Tam Integration

Tickets

Mapping the Source on Erowid
Carrying the Light – Audio 

Telepathetic – https://www.erowid.org/columns/teafaerie/2013/02/21/telepathetic/

The Teafaerie on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/flowfaerie/

Twitter – https://twitter.com/ruespieler

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Jesse Gould – Healing PTSD Veterans through Ayahuasca Retreat Opportunities

Jesse Gould


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In this episode, Joe interviews Jesse Gould, founder of Heroic Hearts Project, a non-profit doing psychedelic work with veterans. They discuss the difficulties veterans face finding healing from their PTSD in the current landscape.

3 Key Points:

  1. Heroic Hearts is a project geared toward raising funds and providing resources for veterans to receive healing through Ayahuasca and other psychedelics.
  2. Our current landscape of social media and government make it extremely difficult to receive donations and get veterans the help that they need. Heroic Hearts is trying to bridge the gap between PTSD and access to healing.
  3. Veterans tend to feel alone in their symptoms from their experiences, so creating community and an integration plan are both really important in the healing process.

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Show Notes

About Jessie

  • Founder of Heroic Hearts Project
    • He found the healing potential of Ayahuasca after a week long retreat after struggling with severe anxiety after combat deployments with the army
  • He was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico and grew up in Florida
  • Jesse graduated with an Economics Degree from Cornell

Heroic Hearts

  • Heroic Hearts is trying to be the voice of veterans in the psychedelic community
    • There are very few options through the department of veteran affairs
    • The organization helps raise money to provide opportunity for veterans to access treatment such as Ayahuasca retreats
  • PTSD and Addiction affect the veteran community more than the general public
  • Aligning the veteran voice with the psychedelic cause is a powerful force for change
  • Integration is so important, both to understand what you’re trying to achieve (beforehand) and stay on that path (afterward)
  • Jessie says they work very hard to make sure vets are having true healing through their Ayahuasca experiences

PTSD

  • People have a common misconception around PTSD that there are these constant traumatic outbreaks, and although that can happen, there are so many people living their day to day lives and you’d never know they have PTSD but they still suffer from it
    • PTSD doesn’t always come from severely traumatic events like war, it can come from other things like childhood abuse or sexual assault
  • SSRIs numb the pain but don’t help with any actual healing

Donations

  • It’s really hard to get donations
  • Heroic Hearts provided financial scholarships so far to about 15 people
    • They are doing a retreat in May for another 7 veterans
  • The received a grant from Ubiome to study the effects of Ayahuasca on the gut microbiome
    • There is a strong link between the stomach biome and mood
  • They are coming up with do it yourself marketing campaigns to help individuals raise their own money, setting people up for success
  • In a place where it’s easier to get money, it’s also harder to get money because so many people are creating personal fundraisers for their dog, etc.
  • There are more and more large organizations helping smaller companies like Heroic Hearts with research

Community

  • Breathwork can be used as a helpful bridge between patients and their PTSD
  • Veterans tend to trust veterans more
    • They tend to feel alone so creating community among vets is really important
    • Psychedelics and ceremony really help vets transition out of feeling alone
  • Jesse says he plans on creating local meetups and groups for vets
  • He tends to send vets on retreats with friends or other vets from the same community so when they return from their retreat they have a built-in community to come back to

Heroic Hearts Project

  • There is an application for vets
  • There are many options to donate, all funds raised go right to the vets
  • “Why is there no government funding going to the biggest breakthrough in PTSD research through the MAPS MDMA therapy? Not one cent of government money has gone to that.” – Jesse
  • “Why are we having to send veterans to other countries to get the mental health that they deserve?” – Jesse

Links

Website

About Jesse Gould

Jesse founded Heroic Hearts Project after attending an Ayahuasca retreat in Iquitos, Peru on February 2017. During the week long retreat he instantly saw the healing potential of the drink and knew that it could be a powerful tool in healing the mental struggles of his fellow veterans. Jesse was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico and grew up in New Smyrna Beach, FL. In 2009 he graduated from Cornell University with a degree in Economics. After working in investment banking for a short time he enlisted in the Army and became an Airborne Ranger for four years and three combat deployments. Most recently, he worked in finance in Tampa, FL After struggling with severe anxiety for many years, he finally decided to go to an ayahuasca retreat which has had a profoundly positive effect on his anxiety and daily life.’I know what it is like to be at the mercy of uncontrollable elements in your own head. I also know the extreme relief of finally having these elements under control. Ayahuasca provided this. We have the ability to help thousands who are suffering but we let politics and ignorance get in the way. This is unacceptable. I started this foundation because the therapy works, I will risk what I have to ensure my fellow veterans get the treatment they deserve and a new chance at life.’

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Lucas Jackson – Breathwork, Ayahuasca, NDEs: Integrating Exceptional Experiences

Lucas Jackson


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In this episode Kyle sits down with a close friend in the psychedelic space, Lucas Jackson. They have shared many experiences such as Near Death Experiences, leading breathwork workshops, and other similarities. They cover topics such as the Near Death Experience, Ayahuasca experience, Breathwork tools, and accepting death, finding meaning and integrating these exceptional experiences.

3 Key Points:

  1. Exceptional experiences are not always euphoric and light, they can also be dark and cathartic and make it difficult to transition back into ‘real life’.
  2. Lucas explains his Ayahuasca experience as his darkest and hardest. He felt alone with no help, no one to talk to to help understand it, he felt as if he actually died. But this gave him a realization and acceptance of death.
  3. The key to making it through and putting understanding to the dark experiences is having the right tools, such as a community of understanding people, practices such as breathwork, yoga, meditation and just simply coming back to the breath.

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Show Notes

About Lucas

  • Lucas’ interest in psychedelics started in high school, the books that he read then were influential
  • He had a near death experience at 19
    • He came down with a lung issue and was in the hospital for 2 months and in and out of different stages of consciousness
  • After that experience his interest for psychedelics and breathwork grew
  • Lucas describes it not totally as a single NDE but more as being so close to death for an extended period of time
    • He says it wasn’t mystical and great, coming back to ‘real life’ had some dark qualities

Revisiting a Dark Past

  • Lucas says he wrote stuff down when he was in the hospital with a breathing tube and couldn’t talk and one day he went through it all and it was very dark and cathartic
  • When he went through and read his past writings, he said that he felt sympathy for the ‘him’ that wrote it
  • He says it is hard to remember the person he was before his experience and illness

Breathwork

  • After he dropped out of school, he started up a farm in Vermont and then toward the end of that he started to feel restless and there were synchronicities that led him to breathwork
    • He heard that Stan Grof was going to be doing a talk at a local bookshop and he met Lenny and Elizabeth Gibson
    • He ended up doing breathwork training in New York
    • He explains the experience as more powerful than what he would have imagined
    • He said he wanted to tell everyone about it after the first breathwork experience
  • Kyle says its common with any exceptional experience, people want to run and tell the world
  • Lucas says the sitting was just as powerful as the breathing
    • It’s not often that you have someone sit at your side for 2-3 hours giving you full attention
  • Lucas says that his GTT training was supposed to take 2 years and he thought he was going to get through it in 2 years no problem and he is in his 5th year doing the program and he loves the pace
  • Kyle says that part of the training in breathwork is doing your own work
    • Lucas says with this kind of work, you don’t get through it and you’re done, It’s a continuous process
  • Robert Anton Wilson’s ‘maybe’ logic helps Lucas with being okay with not knowing
  • He had a few experiences where he went through a ‘death’ feeling, and then he would let go and blast through this ‘light’ and then feelings oneness and wholeness

Ayahuasca

  • Lucas went through the ‘death’ experience and thought it was actually real, he felt complete void and nothingness
    • That experience haunted him for years
  • His ayahuasca experience was really about the purge, letting go of absolutely everything
  • James Fadiman
  • The remoteness of the experience was what he was seeking, being so far removed from everything he had known, everything that made him comfortable
  • The shaman was known for his potency of the brew
    • There is no consistency among the dosage
  • He felt very alone during the experience, he had no help, but it was almost special because it taught him that he is alone always anyway so there was some comfortability with the realization
    • The shaman didn’t speak English and the messages that he received through the translator didn’t make him feel completely safe about his experience
  • It took him over 3 years of chewing on the content and the questions before feeling somewhat okay
    • Lucas’ advice to anyone wanting to do this is ‘take off, make time for this, you’ll need more time than you think’
  • “I believe that there is a collective pool to tap into, where you’re processing the suffering of all, and once you hit that, it’s an abyss and you have to surrender. It can be so freeing.” – Lucas

Spiritual Emergence

  • Lucas says there wasn’t any day or event where he felt like he was going to have to go to the hospital or harm anybody, but it’s because he has the correct tools and great community
  • For him, the first experience was fun and exciting and then you want to do more and then you get into the work and the hard stuff
  • “What is, waking up?” – Lucas
  • There’s the Ram Dass idea that the tool will fall away when its usefulness has been exhausted
    • Lucas says the tool is having a daily practice, and for him its a breathing practice
  • Grof’s framework was a lifesaver for Lucas
  • “What are you going to do with the reality you are presented with?” – a quote from The Truman Show movie
  • “Even if this is all an illusion, why not make this the best illusion, the best dream?” – Lucas
    • How are we showing up to the world after something so exceptional?

Final Thoughts

  • What is this world for?
    • Lucas mentions an Alan Watts video, it says life is like a dance, there is no goal, and then after the dance we sit down
  • “What is the particular thing that we are trying to achieve? General improvement of all humanity sounds like a good goal. Hopefully psychedelics can be a huge tool in moving towards that.” -Lucas
  • Lucas says that he isn’t a therapist, but he is available to talk with someone if they may need it. Having an open and welcoming therapist is great, but if they’ve never had an exceptional experience, it’s helpful to talk to someone who has, therapist or not.

About Lucas Jackson

Lucas has spent his life wandering through inner and outer landscapes, collecting experiences, and sharing those experiences with those closest to him. His outer wanderings have led him to working with earth and plants around the world, including starting a biodynamic/permaculture food forest in Central Vermont. Lucas has also spent time working with people who were experiencing extreme states of consciousness while at Soteria-Vermont and while volunteering with The Zendo Project. The galleries of his inner world are made up of psychedelic musings, astrological insights, and various constellations of esoteric traditions. Lucas holds degrees in Environmental Science and Psychology and is currently pursuing an MA in Religious Studies.

Lucas can be reached through his email address at lucasjackson24@gmail.com as well as on Instagram @biodellic. He is available for astrological readings and is happy to meet others interested in discussing the topics covered throughout this episode of the podcast.

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John B. Cobb Jr. – How Exceptional Experience Can Help Save the World

John B. Cobb Jr.


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In this special interview, Joe and Kyle sit down with Theologian, John B. Cobb Jr., referred to as the Godfather of American Theology. They recorded with John at the conference they all attended in California, on how exceptional experience can help save the world. They cover a range of topics inspired from Alfred Whitehead’s teachings and the promising applications of Whitehead’s thoughts in the area of ecological civilization and environmental ethics pioneered by John Cobb Jr.

3 Key Points:

  1. Process thinking argues that reality consists of processes rather than material objects, and that thinking this way is similar to the teachings of a psychedelic experience. It is hoped for and believed that exceptional experiences can help save the world.
  2. Whitehead’s process philosophy argues that there is urgency in coming to see the world as a web of interrelated processes of which we are integral parts, so that all of our choices and actions have consequences for the world around us.
  3. Certain curriculum, education systems and Universities are not helping us to see the value of our world. A full systems change is needed and hopefully psychedelics, exceptional experiences and process thinking can help with that.

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Show Notes

Process Thought

  • Alfred North Whitehead
  • The senses heighten connection, but we shouldn’t rely only senses for our experiences
  • The label that can we give to the ‘most fundamental relationship’ is any ‘happening’
  • What’s happening when we listen to music?
    • We aren’t hearing one tone after another tone, we are hearing the music as a whole piece
  • Whitehead calls the fundamental relationship of inclusion, a ‘prehension’
    • How one moment leads into another moment
    • If the world is made up of prehensions, then in any given moment, what is prehended?
    • The boundary between conscious and unconscious experience is fuzzy.
  • Whitehead calls the relatedness to the past, physical prehensions. But we also prehend, potentialities. It is being experienced as potential not as actual.
    • Whitehead thinks this is present in very elementary matters.
    • Whitehead says that waves of vibration are a very large part of the world we live in
  • Whitehead believes that without some type of variation from moment to moment, that nothing really happens
  • He wrote a lot on relativity and very little about quantum
  • David Bohm
    • He was very process oriented
    • He wanted to change our language into using words that mean something is ‘happening’ versus using nouns that say that something ‘is’
  • “If you only have potentiality and too little grounded in actuality, you better be careful. If you don’t have the potentiality, then you live in a deterministic universe” – John

“Does Whitehead relate the potentialities to his ideas about intuition?”

  • Intuition can be of both pure potentials and about other people
  • A lot of paranormal experiences are not supernatural
  • Just because someone has seen something or done something, it doesn’t mean that it’s true. There is plenty of illusion.

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Complex Societies

  • An important feature of Whitehead is to distinguish complex society
  • Panexperientialism is ‘the view that if evolution of humans goes all the way down to subatomic particles, then human ‘experience’ by deduction must have originated at the subatomic level, which implies that not just humans but individual cells, individual molecules, individual atoms, and even individual subatomic particles, such as photons or electrons, incorporate a capacity for ‘feeling’ or degree of subjective inferiority.’
  • There might be in-deterministic qualities in individual entities
  • From a Whiteheadian point of view, contemporary physics would be almost universally valid if the entire world were made up entirely of physical feelings, feelings of actual occasions, ‘what is’.

“What would be opposed to physical feelings?”

  • Conceptual feelings, feelings of potentials
  • He thinks there are feelings of potential in every actual occasion
  • “The attempt to make standard physics apply to the quantum world are a total failure.” -John
  • “The attempt to make standard physics apply to the human experience is the task of the Neuroscientists. They think that the subjective experience has a causal role to play in the world.” -John
  • It’s more committed to metaphysics than it is to empirical study

“Do you think what’s going on in the mind, say neurotransmitters or electrical activity firing, that is creating this reality, or the experience, is having an influence on the neurochemistry?”

  • John says that the psyche plays a role
  • Scientists who are busy engineering genetic change, tell us purpose plays no role in genetic change

“What do you mean by no purpose in genetic change?”

  • Purpose cannot have a causal effect in the Cartesian world
    • They say ‘I know that my purposes are completely the result of mechanical relations between my neurons’

“Could you elaborate on the definition of actual occasions?”

  • The psyche is a consistent series of actual occasions
    • Its what kinds of things are in and of themselves, ‘actual’
  • It’s in the distinction of things that can be divided up into other entities
    • An actual occasion cannot be divisible into other actual occasions
    • Like an atom, it is divisible, but dividing it does not keep it from actually existing
  • For Whitehead, an actual occasion is the basic unit of actuality
    • Its an alternative to a ‘substance’ way of viewing
    • When we look at other living beings, animals with brains and such, we assume they have a psychic life
    • John thinks that plants have some kind of unified experience
    • Some people have a feeling about a tree, that it’s not just a bunch of cells interacting
    • “It’s hard for me to think that a stone is an experiencing entity, I think the molecules though are.” – John
    • “I’m sure that cells are influenced by the emotions of people” -John
  • Having a particular conceptuality does not define how things are going to map out

“This world view seems very psychedelic.”

  • Among quantum physicists, Whitehead’s name is known and appreciated.
    • It may mean that physics as a whole might adopt an organic model than just mechanistic one
  • The common sense in this is that our knowledge of each other is not just in visual and auditory clues, but people have been told so long that it is

“What else would it be informed by if not by visual and auditory cues?”

  • Just by our immediate experience of each other
  • If you go into a room, there is an immediate climate there. You can tell when you walk into a room full of angry people.
  • Ivan Illich’s Book on Deschooling Society (Open Forum S)

“What would be your vision of an education system if its not working right now?”

  • The one that Matthew Segal teaches in CIIS are examples of a different education system
  • The Great Books program needs revision. It’s only been the great western books. John hopes they have incorporated great books from other parts of the world
  • There are parts of different educational systems that are better than what we have
    • “If I had an opportunity to create a school, it would be a school that teaches ecological civilization because a healthy human survival is a goal that ought not to be regarded as an eccentric and marginal one, but regarded as what all we human beings ought to be getting behind collectively, together. And if you have a school for that, the curriculum would be quite varied, but the production and consumption and sharing of food should be a very central part of it.” -John
    • Capitalism has ignored much of reality
    • John says creating a curriculum is not his role, his role is deconstruction because he thinks what is going on now is absurd
  • “Enlightenment is the worst curse of humanity, we have been enlightened into not believing all kinds of things. The disappearance of subject from the world of actuality. If that’s enlightenment, then I don’t want to be enlightened.” – John

Language

Kyle Shares his Near Death Experience

  • Kyle got in a snowboarding accident, ruptured his spleen and lost about 5 pints of blood
    • It became mystical when he was in the MRI machine and he was standing on one side of the room with the doctors and in his body at the same time
    • There was an orb of light, and an external voice or ‘experience’ that said “you’re going home, back to the stars where you came from, this is just a transition, the more you relax into it, the easier it will be.”
    • Kyle describes it as a blissful experience, but he had a hard time integrating it back into his life.
  • Whitehead has done a remarkable job to describe process, and exceptional experience and putting a language to it
    • Joe says that Whitehead’s work has helped put the psychedelic experience into words

“Do you recall the first time you heard something that made you interested in the impact of psychedelics?”

  • Lenny Gibson was probably one of the first people that opened his eyes to the positive uses
  • “Today, it would be remarkable if 10% of the world’s population survived without civilization” -John
  • He is confident that there are good things that come from psychedelics
  • He says Whitehead has made him understand the changes that might make us behave in responsible ways, so he doesn’t feel the necessity of having a psychedelic experiences

“What kind of changes?”

  • We have to change from our substance thinking to process thinking
  • We need to shift from thinking that every individual is self-contained, we are all products of our relationships with each other.
  • In the Whiteheadian view, any individual is, the many becoming one. To be an individual is being a part of everything.

Links

Website
Process Theology: An Introductory Exposition

Other books by John Cobb Jr.

A Christian Natural Theology, Second Edition: Based on the Thought of Alfred North Whitehead

Jesus’ Abba: The God Who Has Not Failed

Grace & Responsibility: A Wesleyan Theology for Today

For Our Common Home: Process-Relational Responses to Laudato Si’

About John B. Cobb Jr.

John B. Cobb, Jr., Ph.D, is a founding co-director of the Center for Process Studies and Process & Faith. He has held many positions, such as Ingraham Professor of Theology at the School of Theology at Claremont, Avery Professor at the Claremont Graduate School, Fullbright Professor at the University of Mainz, Visiting Professor at Vanderbilt, Harvard Divinity, Chicago Divinity Schools. His writings include: Christ in a Pluralistic Age; God and the World; For the Common Good. Co-winner of Grawemeyer Award of Ideas Improving World Order.

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Joe Moore – News and Current Events in the Psychedelic Space

Joe Moore


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In this episode, Joe gets on the mic to chat about some current events in the psychedelic space such as the recent passing of psychedelic icon Ralph Metzner, the Psilocybin decriminalization initiatives in Denver and now Oakland, and psychedelic use in the Military.

3 Key Points:

  1. Psychedelic Icon, Ralph Metzner passed away on March 14th, 2019. He had a remarkable career and published a ton of books around psychedelics in his time.
  2. A recent study found that a single dose of Psilocybin can enhance creative thinking and empathy for up to 7 days after use.
  3. Activists are planning an initiative to decriminalize Psilocybin in Oakland. Denver will vote on decriminalization on the May 7th ballot.

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Show Notes

Ralph Metzner

Psilocybin and Creativity

  • A single dose of Psilocybin enhances creative thinking and empathy for up to 7 days after use
  • It was a 55 participant study in the Netherlands

Decriminalize Psilocybin in Oakland

  • Activists plan to decriminalize Psilocybin in Oakland

Decriminalize Psilocybin in Denver

  • It will be voted on, on May 7th
  • Joe believes all drugs should be decriminalized
    • We need to have a compassionate drug policy
    • Placing people in jail for non-violent offences tears apart families
    • We should not favor one drug over another in terms of decriminalization

Use of Psychedelics to do War More Effectively

Harm Reduction

  • Joe mentions conversation he had with a friend of the show
    • He mentioned that Ayahuasca sometimes has mold on it
    • Ayahuasca is labor intensive to make, so they make it once and then it grows mold
    • Then people come and drink the mold infested Aya and it can make a person more sick than they need to be
  • “If you have the option to be more safe, should you be?”
  • If we have less harm and less deaths in the drug world over time, in the next 5 or 6 years we are going to see huge benefits with these substances
  • Staying out of jail, not dying, and by being safer with drugs we have more of a chance to influence policy and make these substances and drug checking more available for the future culture

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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Kyle Buller and Joe Moore – Esketamine and Opinions and Comparisons to Ketamine

Kyle and Joe


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In this episode Kyle and Joe sit down and discuss Esketamine, a new FDA approved drug that is a derivative of Ketamine. They invite quotes from professionals who have experience with generic Ketamine and to voice their opinions.

3 Key Points:

  1. Janssen Pharmaceutica has announced an FDA approved derivative of Ketamine, Esketamine, called Spravato.
  2. The new drug is facing critique on its pricing, route of administration as well as functional differences when compared to the traditional, generic Ketamine.
  3. Joe and Kyle invite professionals in the field who have experience with generic Ketamine to voice their opinions, hopes and concerns about Spravato.

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Show Notes

Esketamine

  • Janssen Pharmaceutica, a Johnson & Johnson Subsidiary has created a derivative of Ketamine called Esketamine and has gone through the whole FDA approval process
  • There has been some concern about a big pharmaceutical company, Janssen coming in and creating a ‘new molecule’ and introducing an FDA approved ‘psychedelic’ to make generic Ketamine obsolete

Pricing

  • There is going to be price differences based on routes of administration (Intravenous vs lozenges)
  • $1.59 at 100 milligrams (93% bioavailable when administered IM)
  • The list price of Esketamine through Janssen will be $590-$885 per treatment session based on the dosage taken which will vary between patients
    • During the first month of therapy, that would add up to $4720-$6785
      After the first month, maintenance therapy could range from $2300-$3500
    • Joe says Ketamine should be cheap

Scott Shannon

  • Scott Shannon, Director of the Wholeness Center
  • Joe reads a quote from Scott that says that the new Janssen Esketamine product is overpriced, the research data showed that only 2 out of 5 studies demonstrated effectiveness, and generic Ketamine is much more effective and cheaper than Esketamine

Insurance

  • Insurance might cover Esketamine
  • Kyle says he hasn’t heard of too many generic Ketamine sessions being covered by Insurance

Jessica Katzman

  • The approval of Esketamine by the FDA is controversial based on the route of administration, cost and functional differences
  • Only 8-50% of the Esketamine dose is effective
  • Some of the benefits of Esketamine are it’s legitimizing of the existing generic
  • Ketamine use as well as an Insurance overview of Ketamine and Esketamine via cost analysis
  • Esketamine is not new, it has been around for a long time

Dr. Matt Brown

  • Physicians have been able to provide Ketamine for decades
  • Janssen was able to get the FDA to approve literally half of what generic Ketamine is
  • There are a lot of unknowns for Esketamine yet, it hasn’t even hit the shelves yet
  • Kyle says Ketamine has been used to bring patients internally, like most psychedelic sessions
    • Kyle also says Ketamine is more dissociating, where classic tryptamines like psilocybin are more activating

Contraindications

  • Hypertension, stroke, intracranial mass/hemorrhage and cautions like pregnancy, substance abuse, etc.
  • It’s pretty available in the underground, so it could have the potential for risk of abuse
  • Recreational experiences have the opportunity to be the most therapeutic and eye-opening experience
  • Audiobook – Function of Reason by Alfred North Whitehead
    • “I need not continue the discussion. The case is too clear for elaboration. Yet the trained body of physiologists under the influence of the ideas germane to their successful methodology entirely ignore the whole mass of adverse evidence. We have here a colossal example of anti-empirical dogmatism arising from a successful methodology. Evidence which lies outside the method simply does not count.

      We are, of course, reminded that the neglect of this evidence arises from the fact that it lies outside the scope of the methodology of the science. That method consists in tracing the persistence of the physical and chemical principles throughout physiological operations.” – quote from Function of Reason

Opinions

  • Joe invites listeners to ask questions and leave a message of opinions and such (either anonymously or using your name)
  • Google voice 970-368-3133

About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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Elizabeth Gibson – Self Care and Integration: An Excerpt from the Navigating Psychedelics Masterclass

Elizabeth Gibson


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This is an exclusive interview with Elizabeth Gibson from Dreamshadow. This interview is a master class from the Psychedelics Today online course, Navigating Psychedelics:  Lessons on Self Care and Integration.

3 Key Points:

  1. A common mistake people make is thinking all of the work happens in the session, when really only a portion of the work happens in the session, and the rest happens afterward during integration.
  2. It’s important not to isolate yourself after this work, it’s important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience.
  3. Elizabeth compares journeywork to planting a seed. You can’t grow a whole plant in one session, you simply plant the seed. You determine how it grows by how you water and cultivate it (integrate it), it’s a process that can’t be rushed.

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Show Notes

Integration

  • Integration is one of the most important aspects of work with extraordinary experiences
  • “How do you take material that’s come up and bring it into your everyday life? How do you realize the benefit of the intense work that you’ve done?” – Elizabeth

Elizabeth’s Background

  • Elizabeth has been facilitating Breathwork for 23 years
  • She was a part of MDMA trials in the 80’s when it was legal
  • Elizabeth helped edit the MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy Manual

Integrating the Experience

  • A common mistake that people make is thinking all of the work is in the session itself, but really that’s only half of the work. The other half of the work happens after leaving the session, the integration.
  • Integration is about being more present with ourselves in every moment, not just yearning to get back to the state of the session
  • The long term subtle changes that happen over time are the most important
  • Stan Grof says that aerobic activity like swimming, running, etc is a way of connecting with energy and feelings that operate at deeper levels
  • Elizabeth says she likes drawing immediately after an experience to work with it symbolically, and then journaling a day or two later once she is able to verbalize her experience
    • “Just do it before you think too much about it”

Community Benefits

  • It’s important not to isolate yourself after this work
    • “The principle of community is really important. We can’t do this work completely on our own.” – Elizabeth
    • We are all the descendants of successful tribes
    • It’s important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience
  • If there is somatic stuff happening in the body, it is a good idea to do some body work, such as deep tissue massage
  • On the other side, if we are holding the space for others who went through a session, it’s important for us to make ourselves available for them
    • Just to talk and to be heard is so important on its own
  • Email follow up is tricky because a person can pour their heart out or be very vague or not get deep in their email
    • The email follow up method is also tricky because of difficult response time and interpretation of responses
  • Facebook groups can be a helpful way of finding the others and creating a community to be able to reach out to understanding individuals
  • Elizabeth says it’s like the analogy of seeds being planted, you decide how you want it to grow and how you cultivate it
    • Acting too quickly after an experience isn’t always the best idea, its best to keep it slow

Journeywork Tips

  • Safe setting
  • Access to people who will be able to support you afterward

Links

Website

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth Gibson, M.S., holds a bachelor’s degree in literature and a master’s degree in biology from The University of Tulsa. She has completed Herbert Benson’s Clinical Training in Mind/Body Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Previously she worked as a consultant at Arthur D. Little, Inc., and Radian Corporation in the areas of environmental protection and food research. She is a writer, editor and homemaker with interests in environmental literacy, yoga, music and gardening. Elizabeth is the editor of Stanislav Grof ’s The Ultimate Journey: Consciousness and the Mystery of Death and a contributor to the teaching manual MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for the Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, both published by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. For the past 12 years, she has been responsible for local news for the Town of Pawlet, and from 2008 – 2014 she was the editor of the weekly environment section for the Rutland Herald and Montpelier Times Argus newspapers in Vermont.

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Dr. Michael Sapiro – How Meditation, Mindfulness and the Psychedelic Experience Relate

Dr. Michael Sapiro


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In this episode, Joe holds conversation with Dr. Michael Sapiro, Clinical Psychologist out of Boise, Idaho. They cover topics surrounding how meditation and mindfulness intersect with psychedelia as well as psychic ability, altered states and integration.

3 Key Points:

  1. Meditation and psychedelics have a lot of overlap such as ego dissolution and unity.
  2. Dr. Sapiro believes that meditation and mindfulness bring personal awakening in order to create collective transformation.
  3. Both meditation and psychedelics are the most beneficial when they are integrated into our waking life and when we use our experiences to help others and our planet.

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Show Notes

About Dr. Michael Sapiro

  • Attended John F Kennedy University where he received his PsyD
  • He focused on meditation research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences
  • He is from Chicago, IL
  • He spent time in Thailand for the Peace Corps
  • A lot of his experience was from his time in the Bay Area
  • There is more data coming out about awareness based meditative states and psychedelic states and how they relate subjectively to each other

Dr. Sapiro’s Practice

  • Transformational Psychology, Integration based
  • He integrates the Buddhist Dharma, Western Psychology, Non-dual meditation and philosophy, and Noetic Sciences into his practice
  • Michael sees 20-28 patients a week
  • Kashmir Shaivism
    • It’s a dissolving type of experience, Its a non-dualistic style of tradition
    • The non-dual tradition helps one just be “whole and unbroken” and focus on the present and now
  • He does the human work in the Buddhism Dharma style, and the spiritual work with the restful piece of being in the now, the focus being integration

Vision

  • His vision has been on enhancing personal awakening in order to create collective transformation
  • He wants to help communities and states and nations to transform via individual awakening
  • He has worked with law enforcement agents, military vets, community members, a variety of people at different levels all the way from grounding to stability to thriving
  • He always ends each Sangha with saying ‘take this work and apply it to your neighbors’
    • A Sangha is a buddhist community of monks/individuals in support of each other
  • “People have such a deep connection to nature when you come out of the psychedelic experience. You start taking care of the environment differently than before went you went in.” – Michael
    • “We now have data on greater environmental concern and stewardship after the psychedelic experience.” – Joe
    • People who are consciously interacting with things outside of themselves have a greater care for those things. “If I am hurting the world I am hurting myself.” – Michael
    • “Hopefully one of the bigger things that come out of the psychedelic movement are greater levels of environmentalism and global stewardship” – Joe
  • The psychedelic movement helps us see systems that are made up are a part of our tangible reality and our responsibility to take care of the people in the systems
    • We can use psychedelics and meditation, and integration from these experiences, to see how we can operate in these systems and help people find resources in these systems

Dr. Sapiro’s Work

  • He teaches as Esalen Institute leading workshops
  • One of his colleagues has reached over 200,000 people with their work since 2011
  • His goal isn’t to be the lead, but the support of leaders, especially women because he feels the need for a balance and the need for more female leaders
  • Michael says he loves surrounding himself around ‘world-changers’ and loves doing anything to be around them and learn from them

Boise, Idaho

  • Michael says its surprisingly conscious state
  • Its very community oriented
  • There are 6-7 Buddhist Sanghas, groups of dedicated folks to their practice
  • There is a lot of nature and nature is Dharma, it is the teacher

Psychic Ability and Altered States

  • It’s very normal for humans to have psychic experiences
    • All of us have access to these states, we just have to tap into them
    • Michael encourages people to accept and cultivate these experiences
    • It may be better to accept these experiences than to deny them
  • There is a difference between energetic flow and psychosis
    • Crazy Wise is a documentary that touches on spiritual emergence issues

The Overlap of Psychedelic States and Meditation

  • The Institute of Noetic Sciences had a program called The Future of Meditation Research
    • They found in the research that they were only looking at reducing anxiety and depression, the clinical applications
    • But they found that more than half of the people experienced psychic phenomenon, mystical experiences, terrifying experiences, the things that overlap/correlate with psychedelic experiences
    • Both meditative and psychedelic experiences point to ego dissolution and unity at the same time
  • Ego and anxiety both have wisdom in them, we don’t want to lose them completely, but learn how to balance them and use them wisely
  • “We need to be mindful of how we integrate what we learn in the psychedelic/meditative state into our waking life” – Michael
  • “How can meditation and psychedelics lend themselves to being the best version of ourselves while committing to others well being? That is what I am most passionate about.” – Michael
  • David Trellen and Willoughby Britton – Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness
  • “If we are choosing to be more compassionate to our fellow humans and the earth, let’s not tough it out, let’s help each other.” – Joe
    • “Let’s do the work that it takes to heal it.” – Michael
  • Be open, be curious. What might meditation be able to bring to personal awakening in order to create collective transformation?

Links

website

About Dr. Michael Sapiro

Michael Sapiro, PsyD is a clinical psychologist, Dharma teacher, meditation researcher, and former Buddhist monk.  He is on faculty at Esalen Institute and is a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where he engages in research on meditation, transformation, and consciousness.  He completed his postdoctoral fellowship in advanced psychology at the Boise VA Medical Center where he specialized in rural health, PTSD, and combat trauma.  Dr. Sapiro teaches nationally on the art and science of transformation, expanded human capabilities, self-care, and meditation for personal and community growth.  He is the founding teacher of Maitri Sangha Boise, an integrated Buddhist community, and director of Maitri House Yoga, LLC, serving the community through integrating meditation practices, psychology, noetic sciences, and social justice.  He can be found at maitrihouseyoga.com.  He and his wife, Chef Sararak, own and operate Lime and a Coconut: The Art of Thai Cuisine, and together lead international meditation and culinary retreats to Thailand.

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Richie Ogulnick – Ibogaine Uses and Addiction-Interruption Therapy

Richie Ogulnick


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In this episode Joe interviews, Richie Ogulnick, a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast. During the show they discuss Ibogaine and Addiction-Interruption Therapy.

3 Key Points:

  1. Ibogaine is a compound found in the Tabernanthe Iboga plant that has been used to treat opioid and other addictions.
  2. Ibogaine has shown to have the power to reset the biochemistry of a person to a non-addictive state, and reduce/eliminate the agonizing symptoms of withdrawal, allowing a person to heal from an addiction.
  3. The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse.

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Show Notes

About Richie

  • In 1989 he was Introduced to Ibogaine while visiting family and friends in New York
  • Its an alkaloid extracted from a West African shrub
  • He was ready to fall in love with doing something with purpose
  • He came across an article about a corporation called NDA created by Howard Lotsof
    • When Howard (a heroine addict) was 19 years old, a chemist gave him a dose of Ibogaine
    • A few days later, he realized he “wasn’t afraid” and then he realized he wasn’t having opioid withdrawals
  • In “Needle Park”, a park in New York, heroin addicts come there for free needles
    • Richie’s dream was to dose all the addicts with Ibogaine, and that only a quarter of them would show up to Needle Park because they were not addicted anymore
  • He brought 13 grams of Ibogaine back from Africa with him
  • He received a chapter from a book (Healing Journey) called Ibogaine: Fantasy and Reality by Claudio Naranjo
  • People were coming from all over the world to receive Ibogaine treatments
  • It was 15 years where he conducted over 750 psycho-spiritual and addiction-interception sessions underground
  • Upon training people, those people would then go and open their own treatment centers in Mexico, abroad, etc.

What is Iboga

  • Tabernanthe Iboga is the plant
  • Ibogaine Hydrochloride is the best product to use to interrupt addiction and symptoms of withdrawal from an addiction
  • Ibogaine is safe as long as someone has had an EKG that has been looked at very closely for any red flags
  • Other than cardiac risk and previous suicidality, schizophrenia, psychotic breaks there aren’t many more threats to being treated with Ibogaine

The Miracle Compound

  • “There is a miracle compound in ibogaine. There is nothing I have come across on the planet that can reset the biochemistry to a pre-addictive state, that can bring a person to make a choice without the agony of the symptoms of withdrawal.” – Richie
  • There is a 36 hour window where a person has a life review, what brought them to the addictive process in the first place, the person’s willingness and maturity
    • It creates a symbiotic relationship for a person to explore themselves with insight
  • Relapse is possible if they don’t work on the reason they became addicted in the first place
  • It’s the witness component that Ibogaine delivers that helps people process through their addiction
  • Ibogaine as a molecule has a really pharmacologically complex, alien like structure

Relapse

  • Justin Hoffman, a DJ in Las Vegas runs Holistic House, a facility where people get to relax and get out of their previous context for a week or two after treatment
  • If a family wanted to help out their family member who is addicted to heroine, Richie says that he asks the family about relocation because it’s a big part of reducing relapse
  • He also says that finding a proper therapist to help afterward is huge too
  • The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse

Big Pharma’s Impact

  • Joe says how he got a message from Dana Biel, talking about how the harm reduction movement has been manipulated by the ‘Big Pharma’ industry, especially suboxone
    • Richie says that drugs like suboxone are prescribed to be used everyday for the rest of someone’s life, and Ibogaine is a “one-time-only” style drug that doesn’t require alot of money to heal people
    • Ibogaine is not profitable so its not attractive to Big Pharma
    • “Ibogaine will never hit the streets like LSD did. It’s not a recreational experience, it’s a long, daunting 3 stage process.” – Richie

Use Cases

  • He knows of a story where these two ladies took Ibogaine daily for their Parkinson’s, and as soon as they stopped taking Ibogaine, they got their symptoms back
  • He knows of another lady who had been walking with a cane and upon taking Ibogaine she was walking a mile around her neighborhood without her cane

Final Thoughts

  • Joe asks if Richie thinks we are over harvesting Iboga
    • There is the Wakanga tree that contains a small amount of Ibogaine, so he thinks we are okay
  • Ibogaine is an important subject because a lot of people are dying from opiates
  • Ibogaine is available in Portugal but it hasn’t had much activity
  • It can be used for therapeutic use as well as addiction-interruption

Links

website

Richie Ogulnick is a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast Over the course of fifteen and a half years, he conducted about 750 sessions, including addiction-interruption treatments. He spent the next several years referring close to 1,000 more people to other ibogaine providers. During that time, he also trained doctors and ex-addicts who opened ibogaine centers throughout the world. Richie feels a pull to focus again on the more therapeutic and psycho-spiritual treatments where he is able to offer his expertise in ibogaine treatment along with his knowledge of reintegration with individuals who are looking to deepen and enrich their life experience.

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Brad Burge – MAPS and the Phase 3 Trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy

Brad Burge


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In this Episode, Joe interviews Brad Burge, Director of Strategic Communications at MAPS. In this episode they discuss the Phase 3 Trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy, contradictions and Expanded Access.

3 Key Points:

  1. MAPS is about to run Phase 3 Trials of MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
  2. If MDMA passes this third phase, it will still be tricky to get insurance involved. But the cost of one series of MDMA Therapy is much cheaper than a lifetime of typical pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD.
  3. The only reason for-profit companies haven’t gotten involved before was because there wasn’t a promise on their investment. Finally, for-profit companies (like Compass Pathways) are interested in advancing these medicines (Psilocybin and MDMA).

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Show Notes

MAPS

Phase 3 Study

  • They are now in Phase 3 Trials
  • They started recruiting at 14 sites (US, Canada and Israel) and are recruiting 150 volunteers with severe PTSD
  • Participation

The Future of MDMA Assisted Therapy

  • Breakthrough Therapy Designation
  • After phase 3 trials, if all goes well, it would mean that MDMA would be the drug to be used (only) alongside Psychotherapy
  • MAPS is training therapists, counselors and social workers
    • One way to get more people educated who are interested in this would be taking therapy interns in and having them gain credits for interning and learning alongside trained therapists

Access

  • Expanded Access is known as ‘compassionate use’, a program by the FDA that allows people to receive a treatment that is still in trials
  • In order to administer the therapy you are required to get a DEA schedule 1 license
  • “If there’s one thing that changes public perspective on psychedelic therapy, its individual stories of people who have been healed, transformed by or positively or even negatively affected by them in some way” – Brad
  • They have published many studies of the trials
    • The most recent was the Boulder study, 76% of people didn’t have PTSD a year after MDMA assisted therapy
  • Insurance won’t cover expanded access, it will have to pass Phase 3 trials until insurance can be used in MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
  • The MDMA is a very small cost (fraction) of the total cost, it’s the hours on hours of psychotherapy that cost so much
  • But the cost of one MDMA Therapy Session process is much cheaper than a lifetime of pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD

Argument

  • Joe says he hears this strange argument that people say “giving soldiers MDMA just makes war easier”
    • Brad says it’s not about putting these people back into war, it’s about healing the retired veterans to help them adapt back into their everyday life
    • “MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy is going to make them a better lover not a better fighter” – Brad
    • “If there’s one commonality in psychedelic experiences, its that things are connected.” – Brad

Compass Pathways

  • Joe mentions that people are scared to see a business come in that’s acting like a normal pharmaceutical company
  • MAPS is not tied at all with Compass Pathways
  • Out of the top two things Americans are mad about, at least one of them is the Pharmaceutical Industry
  • Finally, for-profit companies are interested in advancing these medicines (MDMA)
    • The only reason for-profit companies haven’t gotten involved before was because there wasn’t a promise on their investment
    • Capitalism has a tendency to put profit first
    • “Money can be used for good as well as evil” – Brad
  • MAPS has raised over 70 billion dollars all from donations
  • Compass owns its own safety data
  • Part of the goal of a patent is to protect the investment

Zendo Project

  • MAPS Psychedelic Harm Reduction and Peer Support resource

Rave Act

  • The Department of Justice announced that providing free water and harm reduction education are not violations of the rave act
  • Amend the Rave Act

Pharmaceutical MDMA

  • The pharmaceutical grade MDMA costs 800,000 for one kilogram
  • It won’t be available in bottles, it will be available in bubble packs
    • More than one is never needed

Involvement

  • 2021 or 2022 is the next Psychedelic Science Conference
  • Joe is starting a Psychedelic Club in Breckenridge, CO

Links

Twitter
Facebook
Website

About Brad

Brad Burge is Director of Strategic Communications at the non-profit Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Brad earned his B.A. in Communication and Psychology from Stanford University in 2005 and his M.A. in Communication from the University of California, San Diego in 2009. He began working with MAPS in 2009, where he engages daily with journalists and media producers around the world to enhance public knowledge about psychedelic research, while also helping develop and evolve MAPS’ brand and outreach strategy. Brad is passionate about finding healthier, more effective, and more compassionate ways for humans to work with the pharmaceutical and digital communications technologies of the 21st century. When he’s not plugged in, you’ll find him in the mountains, carrying a backpack, somewhere down a long trail.

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Kyle Buller and Joe Moore – A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork

Kyle and Joe


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In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle sit down and engage in conversation together, covering topics such as Kyle’s capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork, current events, upcoming plans and the hurdles as a Psychedelic education and information company in a space of both ethical and unethical findings.

3 Key Points

  1. Kyle will be soon finishing his capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork.
  2. The project is on the clinical application of Breathwork Therapy. The goal will be to use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that can be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy.
  3. Joe and Kyle find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world. They are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense. It’s a difficult time, where a lot of unethical stuff is happening around psychedelics, and Joe and Kyle feel responsible for the safety of the community.

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Show Notes

Kyle

  • Kyle’s been doing an internship a few days a week and has been doing undergraduate student counselling
  • He’s been working on his capstone project that has consumed a ton of his time and energy
    • He wants to thank Elizabeth Gibson and Alan Davis who have been reviewing his capstone project for him

Breathwork Therapy Capstone

  • Writing the capstone in the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program means it needed to have clinical applications
  • Kyle went to the MDMA Training in 2016, and he talked to Michael Mithoefer, who told him that if he wants to get involved, to figure out something that can be an adjunct to psychedelic therapy
    • Kyle thought that he could use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that could then be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy

Styles of Breathing

  • A deep, slow belly breath can be very activating to the parasympathetic nervous system that calms the body down
  • A fast, intense breath can be more active and can bring out traumas

The Phases

  • Phase 1: Grounding and Emotional Regulation (slow, deep breath, the therapeutic alliance)
    • They screen for people that have had a traumatic experience, spiritual emergence or psychosis in the last 6 months so they know where to start with a patient
    • They use a capscore (a test that looks at the severity of someone’s PTSD) to determine where to start in therapy
    • Joe mentions that it would be beneficial to see what level of capscore a patient responds positively or negatively to a Breathwork session
  • Phase 2: Using Breathwork in a somatic processing phase
    • Stage 1: Somatic experiencing (helping people breathe into the sensations in the body)
      • The body has a ‘secret language’, of how our body holds onto trauma
      • Turning inward and being more in touch with inner sensations (tightness, heat, etc)
    • Stage 2: A more activating of “blockages” by intensifying or speeding up the breath
  • Phase 3: Outside of the clinical scope, placing someone in a full group, 3 hour Breathwork that might bring up collective traumas or spiritual experiences
    • The goal would be to get people through therapy to get them to the larger group process, create community and form social connections
    • It needs to start with the clinical space, one-on-one to generate trust. Once they have that trust and confidence, they can go out and explore the more transpersonal and spiritual aspect of themselves

Bandwidth in Communication

  • We have modems, cable, fiber optics, 3g, 4g, 5g cell networks, etc.
  • Video communication, phone conversation is great, but it’s 2D
  • When its in person, depth of field kicks in, you’re able to see body language and intonation
  • Living in a tribe of 150 people and creating community, we’d be using our full bandwidth, bringing the human organism back to its full capacity
  • “Therapists get taught clinical practices, but they aren’t taught about theory and practice of trauma” – Joe

Psychedelic News Responsibility

  • MAPS just published an article about an online Breathwork workshop
    • Joe says its not a bad thing, but there are risks by not having an in person facilitator
  • “We find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world, our relationship to coming out about that stuff is tricky. Yes, we are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense.” – Joe
    • Joe says he feels responsibility for safety in the community
    • Kyle says the psychedelic community sometimes feels like the wild west due to the lack of education. “When unethical stuff arises, what is our responsibility?” – Kyle
    • “We are trying to understand our future, and not put ourselves in a bad place, all while keeping you all safe and continuing to serve the community” – Joe
  • How LSD alters our consciousness

Psychedelics Today Books

Trip Journal
Integration Workbook
Both books will be on Amazon for purchase in the next few weeks

Arizona Psychedelic Conference

  • Arizona Psychedelic Conference
    • Joe and Kyle will be guiding 2 Breathwork workshops
    • They are excited to connect and meet people
  • Kyle and Joe will be going to another conference in March
    • The title of the conference is “Can Exceptional Experiences Save Humans, from Ecological Crisis”
    • “If were going to survive on earth, we’ve got to be a little more global. We are all linked to this spaceship that we are traveling through space on, and there are limited resources on this thing. We are answering a lot of these questions through psychedelics” – Joe

About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown – Women of Visionary Art and the Need for a Masculine/Feminine Balance

Women of Visionary Art


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In this episode, Kyle and Joe host Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown, Authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art. The book showcases the work and inspiration of female artists such as Josephine Wall, Allison Grey, Amanda Sage, Martina Hoffman, Carolyn Mary Kleefeld and many others.

3 Key Points:

  1. Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown are co-authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art, which includes discussions with 18 female artists.
  2. The book and the episode are an exploration of the role that dreaming, psychedelic experiences, and mystical visions play in visionary art.
  3. There is a strong need for a balancing of masculine and feminine energies. Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed.

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Show Notes

About David

  • David’s background is in Psychobiology, the interface between psychology and biology
  • He spent 10-15 years working in neuroscience and research labs
    • His interest in Neuroscience came from his experience as a teenager, experimenting with psychedelics
  • He wrote his first book, The Science of Psychedelics, about 10 years ago
  • David mentions that the psychedelic renaissance has allowed him to write openly about psychedelic topics that he’s been preparing his whole life researching for

About Rebecca

  • aka Molly Moon Sparkles
  • She has a huge creative drive
  • She is currently studying psychology and is playing in the art program
  • She is fascinated by entheogens, plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
  • She is a painter and is working on the Molly Moon Magick Series that focuses on the divine feminine
  • She wrote and illustrated the book Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams and Mystic Visions

Psychedelics and Creativity

Putting the Book Together

  • David was so fascinated with the visions he would see on psychedelics and wished that he had the talent to portray it through artwork, and then he began to see artists bring these visions to life
  • He also saw a lot of gender inequality, that there were more men than women in the visionary art space
    • It urged him to highlight the under recognized women in visionary art
  • Rebecca was experimenting with other realms with plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
    • She says her consciousness was so drastically different from any other time in her life, and she started painting her psychedelic experiences
    • This led her to begin building community with other artists who shared the same ‘vision’ as her
    • She said that the psychedelic experience has so much feminine nature to it that wasn’t being voiced
    • “We are going through a serious ecological crisis right now and the teachings behind the psychedelic experience is to heal the collective and help climate change” – Rebecca
  • Stanley Krippner conducted a survey of artists and psychedelics

The Imbalance of Masculine and Feminine

  • There is an uprising of feminism with the “Me Too” movement, women in congress, women’s marches
  • Our species has been so dominated by men and we need the nurturing and caring aspects of the feminine perspective

Surprising Aspects of the Women

  • The most surprising aspect is how much in common the women had
  • David says it was beautiful how well each artist was connected to each other through their stories
  • Laura Holden is completely self taught
  • There were two women from the book that had never touched a psychedelic substance
    • They were inspired through dreams and daydreams
  • The psychedelic experience not only inspires the artwork, but it creates a new way of viewing artwork
  • Kyle mentions that he always wished he could record his dreams
    • Joe says he has been seeing research around capturing visual or imagined imagery

Discovering the Artists

  • David discovered most of the artists that he had not previously known through the community Rebecca had been a part of as visionary artists

COSM and Entheon

  • August 3rd, Rebecca and David are giving a presentation as COSM in New York
  • Entheon, the Sanctuary for Visual art may be open by them
    • Entheon will have workshops, painting classes, rooms to stay in, full moon ceremonies, etc.
    • It will be an art sanctuary, a church with a spiritual and psychedelic essence
  • Visionary art is getting into museums and becoming a recognized art form

The Desperate Need for Balance

  • Terrence McKenna told David that early on in human civilization, men didn’t understand the role that sex had in creating babies
    • The power of reproduction was within women and sex was something else
    • Once men began thinking that they were responsible for the generation of life, they starting saying its “my baby” its “my wife” instead of ‘our’ baby or the community’s baby. It kept developing into “my child” into “my country”, “MY”.
    • Then people started using less psychedelics and started consuming more alcohol and now everything is an over exaggerated male dominance
    • “Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed. It could be balanced and harmonized with more feminine energy.” – David
  • There is a crucial imbalance from male and female in history alone
    • But more than an imbalance between just males and females, it’s about an imbalance of masculine and feminine energies
    • Each of us, male and females have both a masculine and feminine energy
    • We can see the masculine and feminine imbalance in the world and our planet right now. We don’t need to shift to a goddess worshiping planet, but we just need to be back in balance and bring more feminine energy of nurturing and compassion and caring and healing
  • Penny (an artist highlighted in the book) mentions about Sandos giving LSD to researchers who gave it to artists

Getting Involved

  • “If you want to get involved in painting, dancing, making jewelry, clothing, gardening, don’t wait. Do it. If you are true to yourself and your own inner visions, you will succeed” – Rebecca
  • One thing all artists have in common is fear and insecurity, so you can’t let it hinder you from beginning

Final Thoughts

  • Artists like Android Jones are doing visionary artwork in virtual reality mediums
  • David thinks visionary artwork will become only even more interactive and immersive spaces
  • We need to find a more yin-yang balance between masculine and feminine

Links

Women of Visionary Art (Amazon)
Women of Visionary Art (Inner Traditions)
David’s Site
Rebecca’s Site
MollyMoonSparkle blog

About Rebecca

Rebecca Ann Hill (AKA Molly Moon Sparkle), is a visual artist with a wide range of experience in different creative mediums. She is the co-author and illustrator of “Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams & Mystic Visions”, as well as “Women of Visionary Art.” Primarily a painter, she is creating a new series entitled “Molly Moon Magick,” and her other projects include dancing with “Gold Town Burlesque,” writing a blog -“Go Ask Molly”- and working on a new book about her spiritual awakening.

About David

David Jay Brown is the author of Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics, and The New Science of Psychedelics: At the Nexus of Culture, Consciousness, and Spirituality. He is also the coauthor of five other bestselling volumes of interviews with leading-edge thinkers, Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge, Conversations on the Edge of the Apocalypse, Mavericks of Medicine, Frontiers of Psychedelic Consciousness, and of Women of Visionary Art. Additionally, Brown is the author of two science fiction novels,Brainchild and Virus, and he is the coauthor of the health science book Detox with Oral Chelation. Brown holds a master’s degree in psychobiology from New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in two of British biologist Rupert Sheldrake’s books on unexplained phenomena in science: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home and The Sense of Being Stared At. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including Wired, Discover, and Scientific American, and he was the Senior Editor of the special edition, themed MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) Bulletins from 2007 to 2012. In 2011, 2012, and 2013 Brown was voted “Best Writer” in the annual Good Times and Santa Cruz Weekly’s “Best of Santa Cruz” polls, and his news stories have been picked up by The Huffington Post and CBS News.

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Balázs Szigeti, PhD and David Erritzoe, PhD – Microdosing Research and the Effects of a Self-blinded Study

Balázs Szigeti, PhD and David Erritzoe, PhD


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In this episode, hosts Kyle and Joe interview Balázs Szigeti, PhD and David Erritzoe, PhD to discuss the self-blinded microdosing study in collaboration with the Imperial College London.
In this episode, they explore the self-blinding study and it’s pros and limitations, with the aim to collect data on microdosing and its possible benefits.

**Update as of 1/22/2018 – The plant psychedelic study extension was approved, together with the extension that allows for volumetric dosing.

3 Key Points:

  1. Microdosing (LSD) has the least amount of research so far among research on drugs like Psilocybin, MDMA and Ketamine.
  2. This microdosing study includes a procedure on how self-experimenters can implement placebo control. This will help determine whether microdosers feel benefits due to the placebo effect or because of the pharmacological action of the microdose.
  3. Just because microdosing may have a placebo effect (the way a user feels while taking it) it may actually have benefits that one cannot necessarily ‘feel’ (users may become more creative, have better problem-solving skills, etc).

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Show Notes

About Balázs

  • Balazs attended his undergrad in the UK at Imperial College and studied Theoretical Physics
  • He moved to Scotland to get his Ph.D. in Computational Neuroscience
  • He became interested in psychedelics via the Global Drug Survey
  • He was doing MDMA research and then the microdosing project came to him

About David

  • He is a medical doctor and works in clinical psychology doing research
  • He does brain imaging and his background has been in addiction, depression and schizophrenia
  • He did his postdoc at Imperial and worked with Robert Carhart Harris
  • He worked in a clinical trial working with people of treatment-resistant depression
  • He is currently working on an online survey for microdosing

Psychedelic Medicine

  • MDMA for PTSD is the most advanced in terms of available scientific evidence for psychedelic medicine
  • There is already a big gap in psilocybin vs MDMA for treatment
  • There isn’t much research on microdosing yet
    • In order to do research on microdosing, you’d have to bring in a ‘patient’ and have them in the lab for many hours at a time, very frequently, and it’s not practical

The Microdosing Study

  • In this microdosing study, they are testing cognitive function
    • The user will have to fill out a questionnaire throughout the duration of the microdose
  • There were a lot of things, very political for the downfall of psychedelic science
  • When the double-blind method was introduced for science, it used methods that would have compromised the ‘setting’ of taking psychedelics
  • There is a manual that the users have to follow for the setup process
    • Its a semi-randomized process where they take the microdose over 4 weeks and it may be either the psychedelic or a placebo
    • It works on a method of a dose hidden in a capsule assigned to a QR code, where the user doesn’t know what they take until the end of the study
  • This is a study inviting people that plan to microdose a blotter based psychedelic or plant-based psychedelics.
    • Its a hands-off study of observation, based on a users own plan on taking the substance

Summary of the Study

The Imperial-Beckley self-blinding microdose study is a new global study on psychedelics microdosing. The study uses a unique ‘self-blinding’ methodology where participants implement their own placebo control.

In the study, voluntary participants microdose on their own initiative, using their own substance, without the study team’s supervision. However, the study team provides a manual that explains step by step how self-experimenters can set up their own placebo control. The placebo control is implemented by placing both microdoses and empty capsules into sealed envelopes, which are then labelled with QR codes and distributed according to a schedule. Participants won’t know whether their capsules contain a microdose or an empty placebo until the end of the study.

The study is run entirely on the internet, therefore microdosers can participate from anywhere in the world, recruitment is now open.

This ‘self-blinding’ design allows the team to investigate whether the purported benefits of microdosing are due to the placebo effect, or the pharmacological action of the psychedelic, which is a critical scientific questions regarding microdosing.

Limitations of the Study

  • Its half-way between a clinical study and an observational study
  • They aren’t sending the users the LSD, they are just providing the platform for the users to share their experience on
  • In this trial, the flaw is that the research team doesn’t know the dose size of the blotter the user takes, it could start as a 100mg, more, less. Its a variable that cannot be controlled
    • The fix would be to have the LSD sent to the lab, tested for dose size, and then sent back to the user (anonymously), but since it’s illegal it cannot be done
    • It’s also hard to determine even distribution of a blotter into microdose size
    • They don’t know if the user is cutting the blotter paper like a pie or in squares
  • Also, because the drug is being bought on the black market, they wont know if there are adulterants in the drug unless the user tests the drug themselves
    • David and Balázs also say that based on current findings, most LSD tested is pure LSD, where a drug like MDMA is more common to contain an adulterant
  • They do have plans to extend the study to include plant based psychedelics and volumetric dosing

What is a Psychedelic Microdose?

  • Psychedelic microdosing is not the same as Pharmacological microdosing
  • A microdose in pharmacological context is 1/100th of a dose, where a psychedelic microdose is more like 1/10th of a dose

Is Microdosing Worth it?

  • People like David Nichols and Ben Sessa think microdosing is pointless
    • It could be that microdosing is a glorified placebo effect
  • Most people who are microdosing have had previous experience with psychedelics
    • People are doing it because they believe there is a benefit that comes from it
  • The placebo control is the most important component of this self-blinded method
  • People say that microdosing stimulates their creativity, but creativity is hard to measure
  • One thing they could measure is personality through a personality assessment
    • One thing that has been studied is an increase in the ‘Openness’ personality trait after psychedelic use
    • The flaw is that a personality test is a person answering questions about themselves

Current Findings

  • The benefit of this study is it doesn’t take people out of their natural, personal setting
  • Based on the feedback already received, the users are getting their guess right only half of the time, on whether it is the microdose or the placebo
  • Just because microdosing may have a placebo effect (the way they feel while taking it) it may actually have benefits (users may be more creative, have better problem-solving skills, etc).
  • Homeopathy is widely believed to be a placebo effect in the scientific community, but the homeopathy is continuing to grow

Setting Up the Study

Links

Self-blinding Microdose Study

About Balázs Szigeti, PhD

Dr. Balazs Szigeti has studied theoretical physics at Imperial College, but turned towards neuroscience for his PhD studies at the University of Edinburgh. His main work is about the behavioural neuroscience of invertebrates, but he has a diverse scientific portfolio that includes computational neuroscience and driving forward the OpenWorm open science initiative. Balazs is also the editor of the Dose of Science blog that is published in collaboration with the Drugreporter website. Dose of Science discusses and critically assesses scientific studies about recreational drugs. Recently Balazs has started a collaboration with the Global Drug Survey to quantitatively compare the dose of recreational users of various drugs with the scientific literature.

About David Erritzoe, PhD

Dr. David Erritzoe is qualified as a medical doctor from Copenhagen University Medical School and currently holds an Academic Clinical Lectureship in Psychiatry at Imperial College London. Alongside his clinical training in medicine/psychiatry, David has been involved in psychopharmacological research, using brain-imaging techniques such as PET and MRI. He has conducted post-doc imaging research in the neurobiology of addictions and major depression. Together with Prof Nutt and Dr Carhart-Harris he is also investigating the neurobiology and therapeutic potential of MDMA and classic psychedelics.

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Nathan Sepeda – 5-MEO-DMT Research, Toad Conservation and Proper Facilitation

Nathan Sepeda


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In this episode, Joe interviews Nathan Sepeda, a Research Coordinator at Johns Hopkins. Joe and Nathan cover topics on 5-MEO-DMT research and survey studies, the difference between synthetic and toad sourced 5-MEO-DMT, the sustainability of the Bufo Alvarius toad, and the benefits of a proper facilitator.

3 Key Points:

  1. 5-MEO-DMT is starting to gain traction in the research world. The conversation continues on whether the synthetic 5-MEO-DMT experience is any different from a 5-MEO-DMT experience sourced from the toad venom.
  2. As the popularity of 5-MEO-DMT increases, concerns about the wellbeing and sustainability of the Bufo Alvarius toad also increases.
  3. Proper facilitation has been shown to affect a person’s experience on a substance like 5-MEO-DMT. The use of a practitioner, finding the substance from a reputable source, and integration all play a critical role in the user’s experience.

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Show Notes

5-MEO-DMT

  • Joe found out about Nathan Sepeda and the work being done on 5-MEO-DMT after Johns Hopkins released a poster on 5-MEO-DMT
  • Alan Davis put together a survey about people’s 5-MEO-DMT experiences
  • Half of the use was recreational, and then the other half of survey participants used more of a therapeutic approach set and setting including a sitter and integration
    • The study found that the more structured the 5-MEO-DMT experience was around set and setting, the more often participants reported a more mystical experience as well as a lower likelihood of having a difficult experience
    • The survey only looked at synthetic 5-MEO-DMT
    • Using 5-MEO-DMT from a toad also runs the risk of the other toad venom constituents
  • Joe said the first time he heard about data on 5-MEO-DMT was at the Oakland Psychedelic Science Conference in 2017
    • Stan Grof had a keynote saying that 5-MEO-DMT was the future of psychiatry

Toad Conservation

  • The Bufo Alvarius toad’s population is increasingly declining
    • Joe says he knows someone who lives on the Mexican border in the Sonoran desert, and he would have toads jump into his house all the time
    • He doesn’t even see them anymore
    • Joe also mentions the toads flocking to the UV street lights, and people scooping them up or even running them over
    • “How do we do less harm to living things and treat our environment better?” – Joe

Nathan’s Role at Hopkins

  • Nathan is the Research Coordinator of Psychedelic Studies at Johns Hopkins
  • He works as an Assistant Facilitator (sitter) for the psychoactive drug sessions
  • He is involved in Psilocybin studies (currently the depression study)
  • He says he is grateful to be a part of the research, seeing people change in a matter of days from the help of the substances
  • Nathan has a background in Psychology and Neuroscience
  • Mary Cosimano is the primary facilitator for all of the studies at Johns Hopkins
    • His training consisted of mock sessions, ways to ask/answer questions, and overall hold the space
  • A lot of people will describe their experience being the most spiritual experience of their life
  • Joe asks about upset stomach with synthetic psilocybin
    • Nathan responds saying they ask patients to eat a light breakfast, but he never really sees upset stomach with synthetic psilocybin

Proper Facilitation

  • The use of a practitioner and finding the substance from a reputable source are the two biggest factors in having a great experience, along with integration
    • Nathan says that these findings are preliminary but they are a great start to data on the substance and its use
  • Joe says he is cautious about the religious affiliation people prescribe to their experience with these substances
    • It can get out of hand, there are “shamans” that taze people or throw buckets of cold water on their patients when they are on the substance
    • Waterboarding, sexual assault, all of these things speak to the value of screening practitioners
  • Joe has heard about a facilitator using an extremely high amount of 5-MEO-DMT on his patients, far above the effective dose
  • Joe mentions a story about a “shaman” who was to facilitate a session. The participant thought they were going to do standard DMT, and the shaman gave them 5-MEO-DMT instead (without the users consent)
    • Joe suggests that just because you know a reputable source for a substance, doesn’t mean they are a good facilitator

Final Thoughts

  • People can find information on the study at clinicaltrials.gov
  • People can apply by contacting Nathan’s team directly
    • They will have room for healthy volunteers in healthy volunteer studies in the future
    • They are currently working on “insight surveys” that are surveys asking people about their psychedelic experiences

Links

Hopkins Psychedelic Research Website

About Nathan Sepeda

Nathan Sepeda is an assistant facilitator (or guide) for psychoactive drug sessions and research coordinator for the Johns Hopkins Psychedelic Research Unit. Nathan earned an undergraduate degree from the University of Minnesota studying psychology and neuroscience. His interests in addiction and mood disorders, in combination with the promising research with psychedelics, have led Nathan to Dr. Roland Griffiths’ lab. Nathan is involved in a number of projects investigating the effects of various psychedelic substances, including psilocybin, salvinorin-A, and 5-MeO-DMT.

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Dr. Jenifer Talley – Harm Reduction in Clinical Psychotherapy and the Stigma of Substance Use

Dr Jen Talley


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In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Jenifer Talley, Psychologist and Assistant Director at the Center for Optimal Living that specializes in harm reduction psychotherapy. Topics include the current stigma of substance use and the benefits of using a harm reduction approach.

3 Key Points:

  1. Dr. Jenifer Talley is a Psychologist at the Center for Optimal Living who practices harm reduction with her psychotherapy clients.
  2. Substance misuse is typically a symptom of a bigger issue. Jenifer uses integrative harm reduction psychotherapy, a model developed by Dr. Andrew Tatarsky that is organized around 7 Therapeutic Tasks to help build safe relationships with her clients in adjusting their relationships with drugs and alcohol and other behaviors.
  3. There is a stigma on substance use, and shifting away from the current model into a harm reduction framework could help users be more receptive to change and healing.

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Show Notes

About Dr. Jenifer Talley

  • Jenifer grew up outside of DC and moved up to the New York area for her internship and was working with female survivors of trauma and substance use at St. Luke’s Hospital.
  • Dr. Tatarsky founded the Center for Optimal Living in 2011 and she joined the team when they opened and is now the Assistant Director.
  • The Center for Optimal Living is known best for their clinical work and trainings focused on substance use and harm reduction.

Substance Misuse

  • Jenifer says that ‘abstinence only’ or ‘abstinence first’ approach doesn’t really work
    • It’s all about determining the relationship the patients want to have with a substance
    • Abstinence can be ineffective at engaging people who may not be ready to embrace abstinence as their goal. It also supports people’s autonomy and right to make decisions about what relationship they wish to have with drugs and alcohol.
  • People really struggle with vulnerability and trauma is a player as to why someone wants to use a substance
    • “Substance use is a symptom of a bigger issue” – Jenifer
  • It’s unfair to ask someone to change without asking the whole system to change

7 Therapeutic Tasks

  • The Therapeutic Alliance – Letting the client know they can trust them
    • Sets the stage for treatment in a way that is non-judgmental, compassionate and personalized. Emphasizing the goals that clients wish to work on vs. having my own agenda.
  • The Therapeutic Relationship Heals – Jenifer says they are sensitive about creating a safe therapeutic relationship with clients
  • Enhancing Self Management Skills – How to better help with coping skills, shifting how people relate to cravings
    • “What’s driving my urge to go for a drink right now?”
    • Loneliness, boredom, and sadness are reasons for craving
  • Assessment as Treatment – What was the craving, how did they respond to that craving, how did they give in to the craving, how did they feel afterward
    • When Friday night rolls around, can the client picture the guilt and shame of Monday morning in that moment?
  • Embracing Ambivalence – The client might have different parts of themselves, one part of them may want to really work on healing and change, and the other part of them might never want to change
  • Goal Setting – helping clients think through bigger lifestyle changes they want to make, such as diet, self-care activities, and specific substance use related goals
  • Personalized Plan for Change – asking people to really evaluate their use and create a realistic and individualized plan for meeting their goals

Substance Use Stigma

  • How do we not be judgmental about someone’s substance use, and care about their safety?
  • Jenifer says she feels very protective about people she works with, and is very sensitive to her clients because of the shame about their drug use

Clients Under the Influence

  • Jenifer asks herself “does this person need medical attention right now?”
  • She had a client that came in intoxicated but they were able to have a conversation still
    • But she didn’t let him go home because of the fact that he drank
    • She gave him food and water and waited until he was able to get home safely
    • She thought about it from a compassionate approach and thought “what is that telling us about his use?” and the next time the client came in they said their drinking was hardly manageable

Harm Reduction Model

  • There is a gap in training as clinicians as providers
  • In the US specifically, the 12 step process and abstinence are used which are a part of the disease model
  • There is a lot of stigma and shame in calling someone an “addict.”
  • The fear about the harm reduction model is that it is thought to lead to decriminalization
  • The other issue is that the harm reduction model is thought to not include abstinence
    • Jenifer says it does include abstinence, she just doesn’t lead with the abstinence approach
  • Kyle mentions that a common thought for clinicians is “How do I incorporate a hard reduction approach without condoning drug use?”

Shifting to the Harm Reduction Model

  • Help clients build a life that they are happy with
  • 3-day training coming up
    • The training goes into the history and why there needs to be a paradigm shift in looking at addiction
    • The second and third days really go into the 7 Therapeutic Tasks
  • Because there is more funding, they are going to offer regional trainings in Florida and will also train the staff at the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene in NYC.
  • The idea of harm reduction might be less appealing to parents, so they really focus on educating parents and teens on harm reduction versus strict abstinence
  • Kyle mentions a statistic he read saying that the older generation’s vice is alcohol and that young adults are using opioids and pills
  • Psychedelic Education and Continuing Care Program is psychedelic harm reduction

Final Thoughts

  • A harm reduction approach is necessary to teach people how to test, it could possibly save lives
  • Families for Sensible Drug Policy
  • We need to re-humanize treatment for users

Links

JeniferTalley

Center for Optimal Living

Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

About Dr. Jenifer Talley

As the Assistant Director of The Center for Optimal Living, Jenifer coordinates clinical services and training activities along with providing individual psychotherapy.Together with Dr. Andrew Tatarsky, she started the first-ever Harm Reduction Psychotherapy Certificate Program. In her clinical work at The Center for Optimal Living, she provides individual psychotherapy using an integrative harm reduction framework where the focus is on developing a collaborative and compassionate relationship with my clients to promote positive change.

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Renn Butler – Holotropic Breathwork and Archetypal Astrology

Renn Butler


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In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down with Renn Butler, who graduated from the second ever class of Holotropic Breathwork in 1989. During the show, they discuss topics on Breathwork, Stan Grof practices, archetypal astrology and the astrological landscape we are entering in 2019.

3 Key Points:

  1. Renn Butler is an Archetypal and Holotropic Astrologer since the 70’s who uses astrology in his Breathwork practice.
  2. Stan Grof’s Internalized Protocol includes lying down with eye shades and headphones with a sober sitter. A sober sitter is more common in therapeutic settings versus the shamanistic group settings, and Renn believes there is more benefit to a sober sitter in a personal session than a group session.
  3. We are moving into a Jupiter square Neptune for all of 2019. Neptune represents our soul’s yearning to reawaken to the universal field of consciousness and Jupiter amplifies whatever it touches, so we are entering into a time of opportunity for self exploration and awakening.

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Renn

  • Renn became interested in Stan Grof’s work through many conversations with Richard Tarnas in 1980, and then participated in a Grof month long session with guests like Gwen Frishkoff
    • He spent much time in Esalon
    • He remembers walking through the hallways where the mandalas from breathwork sessions were hung
  • He has been an Archetypal/Holotropic Astrologer since the 70’s

Archetypal Astrology

  • Stan Grof looked at ways to determine the content of people’s experiences in assisted psychotherapy
    • Through his friendship with Richard Tarnas, he found that people’s planetary alignments or ‘transits’ corresponded in a remarkable way with their experience in a session
  • “The purpose of astrology is to predict the meaning behind events rather than trying to determine the specific concrete forms they take.” – Renn
    • Carl Jung coined the term archetype based on the Greek word “arche”, which means ‘the forms’
    • It’s the psychological meaning behind events
  • Richard learned astrology by looking at his sessions and the content of the sessions and their correlation with astrological transits
    • Based on his findings, he was able to predict the best days to do sessions

A Powerful Breathwork Session

  • Renn had Kundalini Experiences happening for 4 years
  • Transiting Pluto was conjoining his natal Neptune
    • Pluto compels into being whatever archetypes it aligns with
    • Neptune represents divine consciousness
  • He did a 5 hour breathwork session that caused him to re-live aspects of toxic womb (disturbances of intrauterine life)
    • Pluto can help clear out disturbances of the psyche
  • At the end of the session, he felt way more cleared out than he did before
    It resolved his Kundalini episode that he was in for the last few years

Kundalini Awakenings

  • Some describe it as energy moving up the spine or chakra
    • It means to clear out leftover traumatic baggage in the psyche
  • People can have emotional outbursts and start crying or screaming as they discharge the energy
    • Afterward, they will care what happens to the ecosystem and around them and want to be a part of the solution

Spiritual Emergence and Psychosis

  • Joe asks when to tell the difference between knowing if someone is going through a Spiritual Emergence or needs hospitalization
  • Renn responds saying you need to look for if the person is taking responsibility for their healing versus projecting.
  • Renn mentions a woman who did 90 LSD sessions with Stan Grof
  • “The greatest therapeutic outcomes exist with intelligent well established individuals whose lives become boring and rigid in routine” – Stan Grof

Current Astrological Alignments

  • The Astrological Alignments for the next few years are supercharged
    • Uranus square Pluto – a powerful set of archetypes
    • The last time this happened was the end of the 60’s
    • Richard Tarnas calls it the ‘sunset effect’, colors will saturate the sky in the archetypal realm
  • Many people are going to have dramatic healing breakthroughs and openings until 2020
  • For those who are a bit skeptical about astrology, Renn suggest reading newer texts;

Astrological Transits in Relation to Breathwork

  • Richard’s correlation of the outer planets Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto with Grof’s 4 perinatal matrices shows the process of revolutionizing astrology
  • Carl Jung would do chart work before seeing all of his patients
    • He would try to find transits with Jupiter, Uranus, Venus, etc
  • There are no astrological alignments that would be too dangerous to do journey-work during
    • But Renn says it’s like putting up the lightning rod during certain transits during breathwork
  • “Lie back and let the mother give birth to you” – Renn
    • Renn says it’s safer if you are on your back during journey work versus walking around and facing gravity and falling or hurting yourself

Grof Internalized Protocol

  • One patient at a time (sitter, breather team) to lie down, wear eye shades, and listen to music through headphones
    • The sitter agrees not to judge or direct the process or abandon the process
  • You can expect miracles with this type of protocol
  • You can’t face this material by yourself, you really need people you trust, who are sober and not doing a substance, one person at a time
    • Renn says the ayahuasca revolution has brought a lot of greatness to the western world, but the shamanic traditions usually meant that the shaman drinks with the clients to have a magical insight into the users psyche

Sitter Role

  • In a therapeutic framework, the sitter is sober and lets the client do all of the work, and the sitter is there to assist, but not to interfere with the process
  • Stan describes it as a way to maximize the benefits and minimize the risks
  • Renn brings up an example of 3 people doing mushrooms together
    • One person might be feeling aggressive, and another person might feel like a baby wanting to be held
    • The aggressive person won’t want to be doing any cuddling
    • One person does the catalyst, and the other 2 support them, and then the next time they rotate
  • Renn thinks one deep session is more beneficial than 3 ‘half-assed’ sessions

Interruptions During Sessions

  • Some people have a fear that their experience may interrupt another person’s experience
    • Renn says that if someone is laughing or screaming or crying that he understands it is just a part of the universe of the way things just are
  • He is shocked to hear stories about people having a loud experience getting taken out away from the rest of the group and told to contain themselves
  • Kyle mentions that sounds usually aren’t a bother, and the loud music helps
    • But it’s talking, English words that bring people out of a session
  • People can have great ayahuasca ceremonies, and then they think that ayahuasca is the best psychedelic out there
    • Renn says that all psychedelics are great tools
    • But he encourages people to try breathwork and this solo session style healing
  • Joe says he dreams of a place where shamanism takes a look at the solo process and maybe not always the group process, that all cultures can combine our knowledge for the best result

2019

    • We are moving into a Jupiter square Neptune for all of 2019, 90 degrees between Jupiter and Neptune
      • Neptune represents our soul’s yearning to reawaken to the larger world’s soul, to the universal field of consciousness
      • Jupiter amplifies whatever it touches
      • This presents a large opportunity for self exploration, with a feeling of deeper cosmic safety
    • “It seems like our psyche’s wait until things are safe for the deepest material to surface.” – Renn
    • Renn says it’s good to focus on death so that we can constantly keep our priorities straight

Links

Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

About Renn

Following a B.A. in English and Religious Studies from the University of Alberta, Renn Butler lived at the Esalen Institute in California for 2½ years where he became deeply immersed in the transpersonal psychology of Stanislav Grof and the emerging archetypal astrology of Richard Tarnas. He completed training as a Holotropic Breathwork facilitator with Stan and Christina Grof in 1989 and has facilitated many workshops in Victoria, Canada. His research includes over three decades of archetypal-astrology consultations and Holotropic Breathwork workshops, and thirty-five years of Jungian-Grofian dreamwork.

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Jerry B. Brown and Tom Hatsis – Christianity and the Psychedelic Mushroom: A Debate

Tom and Jerry


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In this unique episode, Joe brings Tom Hatsis and Dr. Jerry Brown together for a psychedelic debate. They go back in forth in conversation on whether there was psychedelic use in medieval or ancient Christianity and if so, was there a secret tradition of including art of mushrooms or psychedelic substances in cathedrals and castles.

3 Key Points:

  1. Jerry Brown makes the claim that there is evidence of visionary plants in Christianity and the life of Jesus found in medieval art and biblical scripture.
  2. Tom Hatsis makes the claim that Christianity is not hiding a giant secret inside the biblical texts about the true hallucinogen at the root of the religion being an Amanita Muscaria.
  3. Jerry and Tom debate back and forth, pulling from art and textual evidence (and lack thereof) to support or deny the claim that Psychedelic Mushrooms are the root of Christian religion.

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Show Notes

Jerry B. Brown PhD.

Anthropologist, Author and Activist
Served as the Prof of Anthropology at FIU in Miami
He designed and taught a course on hallucinogens and culture
He is the Co-Author of Sacred Plants and the Gnostic Church: Speculations on Entheogen use in Early Christian Ritual
The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity

Tom Hatsis

Author, Public Speaker, Roller Derby Player and Potion Maker
He is the Author of three books in Psychedelia;
The Witches Ointment: the Secret History of Psychedelic Magic
Psychedelic Mystery Traditions; Spirit Plants, Magical Practices and Psychedelic States Microdosing Magic: A Psychedelic Spellbook
Partnered with event organizer and short film maker, Eden Woodruff, who runs Psanctum Psychedelia in Portland in the process of winning the Guinness Book of World Record in Magic

Intro

  • The debate is around the early Christian use of psychedelics and mushrooms in Christian art
  • The conversation is on the validity on whether or not psychedelics were used in early Christianity

Dr. Jerry Brown on Psychedelics in Christianity

  • The Miracle of Marsh Chapel – a double-blind experiment conducted by Walter Pahnky in 1962 where 20 students were divided into two groups, half received niacin and the other half received psilocybin
    • 9 out of 10 who took psilocybin had a profound psychedelic experience
    • Brown explains that this is an important part in the entire history of psychedelics
  • After discovering the Amanita Muscaria mushroom (confirmed by Paul Stamets) in a 15th Century Church in Scotland, he realized that there were many entheogenic images in Christian art
  • He says that most church historians do not have training in mycology to recognize entheogens and mushrooms
  • He brings up an image of Adam and Eve standing next to a large Amanita Muscaria mushroom
  • He went to a Parish Church and saw an image of Jesus entering Jerusalem on a Donkey, and one of the youths welcoming Jesus is holding a long mushroom cap
  • He went to churches in England, Germany and France
    • In the drawing of Genesis, he saw God creating plants (psilocybin mushrooms)
  • “When you go back beyond the 3rd century, there are no visual images or Christian art due to poverty and persecution” – Jerry
  • Jerry reads a passage,
    “Jesus said to his disciples, “compare me to someone and tell me who I am like” Thomas said to him, “Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like.” Jesus said “I am not your master, because you have drunk you have become intoxicated from the bubbling wellspring that I have personally measured out. He who will drink from my mouth will become like me, I shall become like he, and the things that are hidden, should be revealed to him.”

    • He interprets the passage as a reference to drinking a psychoactive mushroom substance
    • Jerry goes on to explain that Jesus realized his feeling of eternal life through the use of psychoactive entheogens
    • He says that this is not a means of dismissing Christianity, but instead to reintroduce Christianity with its original roots

Tom Hatsis on Psychedelics in Christianity

  • Tom says that Jerry makes a lot of assertions, but does not present any evidence. He talks about art, but not anything in scripture
  • Tom is curious why the only artwork that Jerry brings his assertions about mushrooms are from a time where we can’t ask them about it
  • Tom brings up Julie and Jerry’s book and that the first chapter has nothing to do with Christian History at all
  • Tom uses an example of stone mushrooms. Someone doing a cross cultural analysis, might agree that they are mushrooms based on the other findings of cannabis and opioids
    • But, as a historian, Tom looks for evidence and in this case, there are eye witness accounts of its use
  • He brings up the example, the infamous plaincourault fresco of Adam and Eve at the tree of good and evil with the forbidden fruit
    • Using this one example, he wants to prove how critical historical methodology is used to prove unsubstantiated claims on Christian art as wrong
    • Tom urges listeners to view the unaltered versions of the plaincourault fresco at Georgio Samorini’s Flikr page 
    • The paradise tree is a mix of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and a symbol of Christ’s victory over Adam’s transgression. In the play, it was tradition to place small Eucharist wafers on the tree branches so that’s what the white dots are on the tree branches
    • The tree’s shape is not a mushroom cap, it is a parasol of victory

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjS1O7VxrnfAhXzOX0KHWb1BqoQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F119134352618556921%2F&psig=AOvVaw3BA6K9owNViima3VF89Yjp&ust=1545778034649246

Jerry’s Rebuttle

  • Jerry says that the absence of evidence, is not equal, or proof of evidence of absence (just because it’s not written in text, doesn’t mean that its not there in the art)
  • Jerry’s issue with the fresco is that “The Fall” is a New Testament creation, not all the way back in Genesis
  • He says that on their website, they do not ‘alter’ the image, they ‘enhance’ it
  • He says that Tom claims the fruit doesn’t matter, but the fruit does matter (it could be a psychedelic mushroom)
  • He touches on the skeletal appearance of Eve and the meaning of renewal of life
  • Jerry thinks this image is the beginning of the religious experience and symbolism that the soul is immortal and will continue to exist after death
  • He says the serpent is not a depiction of evil entering Eden, but instead a source of knowledge and a spiritual guide to the feminine to help bring man into higher awareness

Tom’s Rebuttle

  • Tom says he didn’t hear any evidence from Jerry, he heard arguments to authority
  • He says that Jerry uses anthropology to uncover history, and opinions of art historians, but medieval historians agree that the mushroom is not present in Christian art
  • He also says he did agree with Jerry about the mushroom in art, but that was last year and he has proven himself wrong and that the mushroom caps are parasols of victory
  • Jerry says that Amanita Muscaria was in the Soma, but Tom says cannabis was, and mushrooms were not
    Chris Bennett’s book on Soma
  • There is zero evidence for mushroom art during medieval times
  • In Jerry’s book, he writes about the Basilica di Aquilea, saying that they are Amanita Muscaria, but Tom says they are not that type of mushroom

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1KGNW_enUS816US816&biw=1348&bih=639&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=zmwhXO2kN-KT0PEPzIGigAw&q=basilica+di+aquileia+mushroom&oq=basilica+di+aquileia+mushroom&gs_l=img.3...1672.3204..3385...0.0..0.110.860.7j2......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i19j0i30i19j0i8i30i19._tfD19e9exw#imgrc=S2iNHfH6MFMG3M:

 

 

 

 

 

  • Tom also says that in the play depicted in the plaincourault, that the script literally says the wafers are hung on the tree, and that the little white dots are not the dots from an Amanita Muscaria

Jerry’s Closing Remarks

  • He says that this isn’t just cultural analysis, this is about fieldwork and looking at how native people view this artwork
  • The problem he has with Tom and Church historians is that it is not taking evidence from Ethnobotanists
  • Jerry says he believes that there is a long tradition of entheogenic mushrooms in Christian art and would like this debate to continue

Tom’s Closing Remarks

  • Tom says he still isn’t hearing evidence, he is only hearing assertions and argument to authority and eminent scholars
  • Tom says that Genesis doesn’t matter in the plaincourault, because we know that it’s about the play
  • He has multiple articles debunking these images on his website
  • Tom says the holy mushroom hypothesis fails against all the claims Jerry has made

Links

Tom’s Website
Jerry’s Website

Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

About Jerry

Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist, author and activist. From 1972-2014, he served as Founding Professor of Anthropology at Florida International University in Miami, where he designed and taught a course on “Hallucinogens and Culture.” The course examines the use of psychoactive plants by tribal and classical cultures, including Ancient India and Greece, and by and discusses the discoveries of the modern mind-explorers, the “psychonauts of the twentieth century.”

About Tom

Thomas Hatsis is an author, lecturer, and historian of witchcraft, magic, Western religions, contemporary psychedelia, entheogens, and medieval pharmacopeia. In his spare time he visits rare archives, slings elixirs, and coaches roller derby.

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Duncan Autrey – Conflict Transformation and Resolution; Our Role to Play a Part in the Whole


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In this episode, Joe interviews Duncan Autrey, a conflict transformation catalyst and educator. He runs a podcast, Fractal Friends, that covers topics of self-similarity across our diversity. During their conversation, Joe and Duncan discuss ways of resolving conflict in our relationships and society.

3 Key Points:

  1. Duncan Autrey is a conflict transformation educator, working for peace and cultural change.
  2. Conflict happens when one person wants to be heard so much that they stop listening to the other side. It is a product of living in a diverse world.
  3. We have more rights than we think we do when facing law enforcement.

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Show Notes

What is Conflict?

  • Conflict is a product of living in a diverse world
  • Conflict resolution is about how to get different perspectives working together
  • Conflict happens when someone is really passionate about their side of the topic
  • Conflict also happens when one person wants to be heard so much that they stop listening to the other side
  • The ARC of conversation
    • A stands for acknowledge
    • R stands for reflect back
    • C stands for be curious

Resolving Conflict

  • Its okay to be certain about your own experiences, but someone might also be certain about their experiences and the key is to find a mutual ground
  • “How do we understand ecological issues better and work with each other to find how to create better conversation around it?” – Joe
  • In a conversation of conflict, the other side may be the antidote to your extreme
    • Interdependent Polarity – each side has something positive and negative, and each side should acknowledge the negative but aim to pull out the positive of the other side
    • Iceers
  • “It’s better to find a way to navigate the question, rather than to answer the question” – Duncan
  • In a hierarchy of permanence, laws are really low. Laws come and go
  • 3 ways we resolve conflict over time; power, violence and laws
    • But the interest based model includes everyone and all sides and works through conflict to live in and share the same planet with each other

Impressive Resilience in Humans

  • “Shifts happen”
  • People that Duncan works with start thinking to themselves “I’m a good guy facing a bad guy” and the person on the other side of conflict also thinks “I’m a good guy facing a bad guy”
    • Helping guide the people in conflict to just listen to the other person fully is what starts the shift

Law Enforcement and Conflict

  • It’s important to recognize the difference between the system and the individuals
    • Our whole system of television, movies, everything is all feeding into this
  • There are sociopaths in the world (5% of the population), and they are falling into roles like prison guards and CEO’s
  • Duncan brings up a story where he was in a car with someone who got pulled over, and the car got completely searched
    • He had vitamins on him, and the police assumed it was MDMA, so he was arrested and spent 4 days in jail
    • “This is a place where the people who are on the right side of the law, are being treated like assholes, and where people on the bad side of the law, are on their best behavior” – Duncan
    • This is a systemic issue, where the society says that you are a good person for doing something good, and are a bad person for doing something bad
    • But we shouldn’t be defined by what we are ‘caught’ doing, either good or bad
    • People should be able to hold onto their humanity (not be locked up for life) for something like possession of a drug
    • “If we’re going to care about our shared humanity and our right for everyone to be here, we have to figure out the path of restoration” – Duncan
    • “Slavery isn’t okay, unless someone gets convicted of a crime”
    • Victoria’s Secret has people in prison slavery making lingerie in South Carolina
    • People have to pay off debt from their incarceration, before they get a license, to get a job, that they have to apply to as a criminal
    • Society doesn’t make it easy to be human after prison
    • People in grad school with the same amount of debt, have an education, (usually) a job, and have hope for the future

Rights When Getting Pulled Over

  • Right to remain silent is real
  • Right to consent for search – you don’t have to say yes
    • Law enforcement tries to use the fact that you think you’re guilty and will let the search happen
  • You can’t be detained without probable cause (4th Amendment)
    • You can be detained long enough for a traffic citation, but not enough to be caught for another crime
  • Smoke smell in the car is probable cause, even in s state where it is legal
  • Joe mentions dash cams so that there can be recordings on both ends, not just one end (the police’s evidence)
  • Duncan had the thought that maybe once they realize that his vitamins were not MDMA, that they might try to switch out the vitamins with MDMA
    • His attorney said they aren’t that corrupt, or smart

Links

Website
Podcast

Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

About Duncan

Duncan Autrey has worked in facilitation and conflict resolution for over fifteen years in diverse contexts ranging from rural Paraguay and Colombia to cities of Seattle, Washington, DC, Cuenca and Buenos Aires. He approaches conflict from a belief that it arises from the diverse cultural experiences of common human needs. Every conflict or complicated situation, large or small, is an opportunity for deepening our relationships and improving the world we live in. Duncan currently runs a podcast called Fractal Friends covering topics on exploring our self-similarity across our diversity.

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Steve Hupp – Kentucky Ayahuasca and Shamanism in the United States


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In this episode, Joe interviews Steve Hupp, the Host of Kentucky Ayahuasca, a new series on Viceland. Topics include Steve’s background and how he wants to impact the American Ayahuasca scene through his work.

3 Key Points:

  1. Kentucky Ayahuasca is a docu-series on Viceland about Shaman, Steve Hupp as he works with people seeking healing from severe emotional and physical issues.
  2. Steve comes from an unusual background of career criminal and bank robber, and because of his time in prison with a Peruvian Shaman, has decided to bring the tradition to the United States.
  3. Steve is careful not to mock what shamanism is by creating ceremony in the States. He wants facilitation to be done as safely as possible and is simply trying to help people through Ayahuasca ceremony.

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Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Steve

  • He was a career criminal who robbed banks
    • It landed him in prison and put him into the same cell of a Peruvian shaman who had overstayed his visa and was probably doing some facilitating in the States
    • His name was Guadalupe and Steve called him Loopy because of the things he was talking about
    • But here and there Guadalupe would say something that would resonate with Steve days and weeks later that just made sense

Prison

  • He spent 4 years in prison
    • He got into the federal system because he had beaten the state system so the federal system picked up the case
    • Steve pleaded guilty and made a deal with them to give them their money back
    • He also agreed not to sue the police for opening fire on him
    • He was one of the first bank robbers released on a bond

Religion and Spirituality

  • Up to that point he was an Atheist
    • He decided that something else was keeping him alive for something because of what he survived during the police chase
  • Steve says he’s seen how religious law worked by seeing gangs turn into congregations
  • He says he is no longer an Atheist after having experience with Ayahuasca
  • He had an epiphany that “anything is possible” and he decided he wanted to bring this to everyone
  • He started to have coincidences that led him to facilitation

Shamanism

  • Steve isn’t trying to defraud what Shamanism is, but he is trying to tailor it to the American way of life
    • He says the Shaman in the jungle has a different context than an American does
  • Joe mentions that people get upset about how the word ‘shaman’ is used
    • Steve says ‘shaman’ comes from the Siberian word, ‘saman’, which means “to know” but has been branded by anthropologists
    • He also says shamanism is the oldest world religion
  • Joe brings up that so many people suggest doing Ayahuasca in the Amazon because that’s where the spirit of the plant is, but he also mentions that the same type of biodiversity exists in Kentucky too

Purpose

  • Steve says they face reverse-racism because they can’t work with native tribes because they are white, but he’s just looking to bring everyone together
  • “If we don’t start helping our little blue sphere heal, it’s all we’ve got” – Steve
  • He said he had more fear transitioning into Ayahuasca facilitation than any bank he’s robbed because he had to put his name on it
  • His intent is not to build a cult, he believes we are at the dawn of a new world and we are all in this together

Helping Addiction with Ayahuasca

  • Steve says he believes there are no addicts, just unbalanced humans
    • Joe says he read recently that the term “addict” keeps people in their problems
    • When he helps people who are addicted to drugs, and they drink Ayahuasca, they realize the drug is not the problem, but the guilt and the shame about using the drug is the problem

Plant Teacher

  • Steve believes we are intergalactic children
  • We could use our technology and knowledge to better us rather than being so distracted by the ‘lines in the sand’
    • He says we could feed everyone on the planet with land the size of Texas
  • What Ayahuasca is trying to teach us is to be kind to each other and we have that choice everyday
  • We need to get past this barbaric attitude of domination
  • “I know I’ve got grandchildren that I may never see, but I’ve got to try to leave them a world better than the one I’ve found” – Steve
    • If we were to teach our kids to teach our grandkids something, we wouldn’t be handing them millions of dollars in national debt
    • Its a non-violent change
    • “What if we collectively manifested accountability in our government?” – Steve

Law Enforcement

  • Steve believes law enforcement shouldn’t be able to have more power than soldiers at war
    • Soldiers in Iraq can’t fire unless they have been fired upon

Shaman University

  • No one has ever done this before, Steve wants to put together a structure to make sure this operation is done ethically
    • He wants to lay the foundation for people to participate in Ayahuasca ceremony safely
    • He says anybody can brew Ayahuasca, but doing it safely and properly is key
  • Joe encourages viewers to check out the series on Viceland
  • Steve also encourages listeners who want to do Ayahuasca abroad to do tons of research before attending to make sure there are proper facilitators, ethical procedures and quality emergency response techniques and resources

Links

Kentucky Ayahusca on Viceland
Website

Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

About Steve

Steve Hupp had spent time in the Military. He was lost in materialism, drug abuse, alcoholism and pride that led him on a 5 year bank robbing spree that ended with him in Federal Prison, where he met his first Shaman, a cellmate. Now he is an Ayahuasca Shaman performing psychedelic healing ceremonies in Kentucky. Steve has worked with Ayahuasca for 15 years, trained by a Shaman from South America on how to work with Ayahuasca. He has spent much of that time working alone and experiencing many visions and entities that called him to found Aya Quest.

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Kevin Matthews – Decriminalize Denver and the Aim to Decriminalize Psilocybin Mushrooms

Kevin Matthews - Decriminalize Denver


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In this episode, Joe sits down with Kevin Matthews, Campaign Manager of Decriminalize Denver, the group looking to decriminalize magic mushrooms. During the show, they cover topics such as the Right to Try Act, therapeutic success and what it might look like to have Psilocybin decriminalized in Denver.

3 Key Points:

  1. Decriminalize Denver’s efforts are aimed to decriminalize Psilocybin Mushrooms in the city of Denver, CO., and are currently getting signatures to be on the May 2019 ballot.
  2. The Federal Right to Try Act allows a person with a life-threatening illness to use any substance that has passed phase one clinical trials.
  3. There is so much research and data on the benefits of Psilocybin Mushrooms, and being in an age of social media sharing, people are waking up to the idea of mushroom decriminalization.

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Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Kevin

  • Kevin is a part of the group, Decriminalize Denver
    • The group submitted the ballot initiative called the Denver Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization Initiative and they are getting signatures to make the May 2019 ballot
  • Kevin became interested in mushrooms after leaving as a Cadet at the US Military Academy due to major depression
    • He was interested in Psilocybin Mushrooms impact on depression

Talking Publicly about Psilocybin Use

  • “Self-healing from psychedelics” is something most people want to be careful talking about
    • Does it uninspire therapists?
    • Does it ruin the medical model?
  • Kevin states that people are afraid to talk about it because they are a schedule 1 substance
    • Those who are willing to take the risk to talk about it are because they believe that mushrooms might have the best impact on them

Right to Try Act

  • Kevin knows someone with PTSD and tumors who is prescribed to Psilocybin under the Federal Right to Try Act
    • Anyone who has a life-threatening illness can use any substance that has passed phase one under clinical trials
    • His psychiatrist said that the psilocybin has been nothing short of miraculous in its effects
    • He takes 1.5-2 grams of dried mushrooms every 7-10 days
      It puts him in control of his own protocol
    • Trump just signed the Federal Right to Try Act this summer, Colorado has had their own since 2014

Generational Mushroom Use

  • Joe says that the media landscape has really changed in the past few years and so much more research and information is becoming accessible to everyone
  • Veterans for Natural Rights group is supporting this mushroom movement
  • After the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, a lot of people went underground with their use
    • 30 million people in the country have used psychedelics in the last decade
    • More young people now are using psychedelics than the same age group used psychedelics in the 60’s

Decriminalize Denver

  • The goal of the group is to decriminalize the personal use and personal possession of Psilocybin mushrooms, including the propagation of mushrooms for personal use
  • “Our main goal with this is to keep individuals out of prison, help our vets, and help our loved ones who suffer from these traumas” – Kevin

Colorado Always Making Progress

  • Right now, Colorado state legislature is looking at safe injection sites and different kinds of penalty such as rehab instead of incarceration
    • Joe says Denver is a kind of microcosm of the whole nation, it has an interest in both sides of an issue, instead of just one sided
  • “Mushrooms help, in a very profound way. And opening that door is the first step to changing people’s minds, both metaphorically and physically.” – Kevin
    • The medical applications of Psilocybin are huge such as for a stutter, autoimmune issues, anxiety and depression

Talking about Psilocybin

  • Kevin says you can’t have a conversation without two opposing sides
    • He is excited for when the conversation starts because there is a ton of points on why Psilocybin is proven to be effective
    • John’s Hopkins said that Psilocybin should at a minimum be a Schedule 4 (same level as prescription sleep aids) source
  • Schedule 1 means “no medical value and high risk of abuse”
    • From the clinical research and population studies alone on Psilocybin, we know that’s false

Decriminalize Denver’s Current Focus

  • Getting all 5,000 signatures (2,000 so far) by January 7th
  • Coalition building, doing some fundraising
  • Getting volunteers activated
  • After getting all the signatures, then they will be on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the campaign and outreach starts

Using Psilocybin for Therapy

  • Joe brings up a story about his teacher Lenny Gibson who had multiple bouts of cancer and is a psychedelic scholar. Lenny was incredibly mad at Tim Leary because he was in cancer support groups and imagines how many more options cancer patients would have for pain if drugs were not made illegal
  • Looking at decreasing suffering, it would be special for the Denver population to find relief in anxiety and depression before going into a life-threatening surgery, etc.
  • If this turns into a regulatory medical paradigm, licensure is important
    • How do we create the paradigm to open the work in a professional therapeutic manner?

Grand Rounds

  • Doctors will get together around a case study and share it within the medical community
    • It’s a way to share and practice case studies organically and internally
  • With social media alone 30,000 people can be reached a month
    • Typing in to Google “benefits of mushrooms” brings up a ton of research
  • When people hear about John Hopkins, NYU, Harvard, UCLA Medical Center, and all of these companies that have already been doing the research they become more interested
    • Medicalization does not equal rescheduling
    • Carl Hart
  • It takes the breaking up of a family after prison time of a drug offense, 7 generations to recover
    • Joe knows of a case where someone in Colorado who got busted for having mushrooms only ended up serving 2 weeks and didn’t get a felony for it
  • In 2005 New Mexico Court of Appeal said that cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms does not qualify as the manufacture of a controlled substance, as long as they aren’t dried

Mushrooms are Beneficial, Not Harmful

  • How do we ruin fewer lives by legalizing mushrooms and keeping people out from behind bars?
  • Mushrooms can put you in touch with yourself and help connect yourself to others

Feedback

  • Most of the responses are, “Hell yeah I’m going to sign this!” or “This saved my life”
    • Kevin says when someone says no, it’s all about educating them
  • They had 45% support it and 20% maybes

Working with the City

  • The bill would include a Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, a city level committee made up of health professionals, Police, Denver Sheriff’s office, city attorneys, etc

Final Thoughts

  • Kevin wants as many people as possible willing to participate to volunteer
  • They will be starting public Q&A twice a month (and live streaming them)

Links

Website
Facebook
Instagram

Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

About Kevin

Kevin Matthews is leading the decriminalization of Psilocybin mushrooms in Denver, Colorado. He and his group of dedicated volunteers are currently collecting signatures to make the May 2019 Ballot.

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Jake Mitchell – Harm Reduction, Overdose Signs and Emergency Response Techniques


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In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Jake Mitchell from the Flight of Thoughts Podcast.
Jake has spent 4 years as a Paramedic in Canada and leads trainings around mental health, first aid and is bringing better practice of psychedelics into the psychedelic space.

3 Key Points:

  1. It’s so important to know your substances and get a testing kit so you know its not laced and you know exactly what you’re taking.
  2. More people seek help when they look at an overdose or a difficult experience as if they are suffering versus breaking the law. Decriminalization at the least, would help make people be seen as a patient and not a criminal.
  3. Most police aren’t trained on mental health issues, and they have shot and killed people because they don’t know how to correctly respond to issues like schizophrenia. We need more mental health training among our law enforcement.

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Jake

  • He had major depression and didn’t know it, and started to use cannabis as a useful tool for his depression
    • He started to notice some of the first responders use MDMA and Psilocybin off-duty to help with their PTSD
    • “PTSD for those who have been in combat is more understood than for first responders with it, people think that we can just handle it.” – Jake
    • There are levels of trauma that don’t qualify daily for PTSD, but for police and firefighters and such, they can be triggered by certain events
  • It’s hard to say what percentage of first responders use cannabis, MDMA and psilocybin for personal therapeutic use
    • Jake says he knows of at least a quarter of first responders who have been open about their use
    • There is a new initiative that if police use cannabis, even right before their shift, as long as they are ‘fit for duty’ they won’t be scrutinized

CBD

  • CBD counteracts the effects of THC, THC binds to CB1 receptors, and CBD binds to CB2 receptors
    • CBD is similar to Advil
    • If someone has taken too many edibles, they can take Advil to counteract the effect of the THC
    • It counteracts the THC similar to how CBD does
  • People used to say to have a good night, eat a pot brownie, but it’s a better idea to smoke for the first time than to eat an edible

Harm Reduction – Teaching People How to Respond to Overdose

  • They are teaching people about harm reduction kits or when to call an ambulance
    • Know your substances, and get a testing kit so you know its not laced and you know exactly what you’re taking
    • Know what breathing technique you want to use if you “feel the fear” setting in
    • If you know someone is on a clean substance, you can try to help them through it, but if it could be laced (with fentanyl, etc) call an ambulance
    • If someone is unresponsive, that’s a sign they could be overdosing
    • You can rub as hard as you can with your knuckles on their chest and scream their name, and if they don’t wake up, that’s a good sign to call 911
    • Always turn them on their side so that their air passages open up and they don’t asphyxiate on their tongue or vomit
    • If you are informed on how to use narcan and you think they are overdosing on fentanyl, use it
    • If they are awake and are psychologically freaking out, just sit them down and simply ask them “how can I help?” They might want something as simple as some water or to go for a walk
  • Knowing your dose is so important
    • LSD and psilocybin don’t have cardiac effects, they don’t shut off breathing, so you shouldn’t have a reason for feeling like your going to actually die unless it’s been laced
    • MDMA is one you have so worry about but you’d have to take hundreds and hundreds of milligrams
    • Fentanyl test strips are $2
    • They are only $1.50 if you buy 100 or more

Drug Showmanism

  • The first option should always be cannabis
  • Usually the only reason that people overdose on heroin is because it’s laced with pharmaceuticals
  • Advil and Tylenol work similar to opioids
  • Sometimes we have emotional trauma and it comes out as physical pain
  • More people seek help when they look at it as that they are suffering versus breaking the law
    • Narcan costs $20-$40
    • An overdose death costs $30,000
    • In Canada, the pharmacist will inform you on how to use Narcan
    • Jake says he hopes that the US will catch up Narcan availability and use
  • The grinding of the teeth after taking MDMA may be a sign that it contains amphetamine
  • Decriminalization at the least, would help make people be seen as a patient and not a criminal

A Healthcare Issue, Not a Crime

  • The Good Samaritan Act in Canada says if you have minor possession of a substance and not a traffic-able amount, and you call the ambulance for an overdose, you will not be searched or charged
  • Most police aren’t trained on mental health issues, and there have been situations of people with schizophrenia having a moment in public, and because the police don’t have education on signs to look for, they have shot and killed the victim
  • 23 and Me, the gene testing company, tested over 180,000 people’s genes in a sample
    • The findings showed that cannabis doesn’t cause schizophrenia, but people likely use cannabis to relieve symptoms of it

Serotonin Toxicity

  • Jake says he’s been hit in the face by someone on PCP
    • It took 6 police to hold one person down.
  • Another time, there was a guy who was wearing underwear in freezing weather, punching cars driving at almost 40 miles an hour
    • They were snorting Wellbutrin, an antidepressant that works as a stimulant when snorted
  • Serotonin syndrome is super dangerous
    • Ketamine is used in the ER for scenarios like this
  • Does taking MDMA too frequently ruin your serotonin system?
    • Emanuel Sferios – the number one risk of using MDMA is you might not get high from it anymore

Addiction

  • Type II Diabetes is a symptom of sugar addiction
    • Sugar and carbs create bacteria in the gut that releases plaque in the blood
  • Technology addiction – Jake had a patient that sliced an artery and was texting and on candy crush and Snapchat

Links

Instagram 
Facebook

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Jake

Jake is a Primary Care Paramedic with experience in emergency response, evidence-based research practice, harm reduction techniques, and crisis intervention. He is the Founder of The Psychedelic Society of First Responders and Emergency Workers.

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Brian Pace and Jason Slot – Neurochemical Ecology, and the Evolution of Psilocybin Mushrooms


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In this interview, Brian Pace interviews Dr. Jason Slot at Ohio State University. In the show, they talk about Jason’s contributions of the psilocybe genus. Jason is in the faculty at OSU in the department of plant pathology.

3 Key Points:

  1. There are over 200 species of mushroom forming fungi that produce psilocybin, and Jason studies how and why these organisms produce the psychoactive compound.
  2. Animals seek altered states of consciousness as a potential evolutionary mechanism.
  3. Mushrooms use horizontal gene transfer to pass on their psychoactive properties.

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Jason

  • “There weren’t many mycology job postings in the area, and a job came up for someone to study the evolution of fungal genomes” – Jason
    • It all just fell into place

What is Neurochemical Ecology

  • Ecology is the interaction among organisms and their interaction with their environment
    • Neurochemical ecology is a special case where the chemicals are specifically targeted to processes of nervous systems in animals
    • There is an opportunity for plants and fungi to produce drugs and compounds that manipulate their behavior or inhibit their eating

Species that Produce Psilocybin

  • There are over 200 species of mushroom forming fungi that produce psilocybin
    • Jason has found many more

Distribution of Psilocybe

  • Mushrooms were anatomically modern
  • There were flowering forests and wood that spanned to each of the poles
    • The supercontinent would have broken up after that and as the continents separated, so did the mushrooms
    • Humans have been distributing psilocybe through the dung of migrating animals

Columbian Exchange

  • During colonization from the old world to the new world, there was the biggest exchange of fungi
    • If the amount of biomass and dung expands, then the number of fungi species evolves and grows
    • The underlying change in the climate that changes the planet from forested to open grasslands also has an impact
    • During human evolution, psilocybe has been around the whole time
    • These neurochemicals have dated human genus

Serotonin

  • Serotonin is analogous to psilocybin
  • Bacteria was the first organism making serotonin
  • Insects produce serotonin
    • “Serotonin is a great key, it fits into a lot of different locks and is used in a lot of different ways” – Jason
  • It’s in plants, its in amoebas, and its in animals
  • In animals, they have specialized a lot of different receptors that respond to serotonin
  • Serotonin only interacts with one type of receptor in the body

Altered States of Consciousness

  • “It must be like something to be a bat, and it must be different than what it’s like to be a human, what must it be like to be a bat under the influence of psilocybin, is it anything like a human?” -Brian
  • Animals seek altered states of consciousness
    • Bees seek out fermented grapes
    • We have video footage of foxes taking huge bites out of Amanita Muscaria
    • Seeking out intoxication is a natural human drive
    • Maybe the desire to seek out these altered states of consciousness is an evolutionary mechanism that is happening
  • If you search out new ways of perceiving the world, you may come upon a new pattern that your group of species learns how to live better
    • If ants come back to the hive too drunk, they get punished and get bit

Language

  • One of the ways humans distinguish ourselves
    • We have specialized vocal chords, and tongues that make our language unique
  • Terrence – Stoned Ape Theory – the thesis was that psilocybin mushrooms were a part of the diets of the hominids
  • There was some kind of co-evolutionary relationship that may have resulted in human language

Psilocybin’s role in our development

  • “What kind of role did psilocybin mushrooms play in our development?”
    • The hominids came down from the trees and now they are standing upright
  • We have to look at opportunity, constraints, etc.
    • If the ape eats psilocybin, it may have an idea or understands its environment better
    • It may help the ape acquire more food or expand into new territory
    • The access to food and changes in locomotion are huge forces in our evolution
    • Having fire to cook our meat and change our availability to nutrients is one of the biggest forces in evolution of human consciousness than mushrooms

Horizontal Gene Transfer

  • Vertical transfer of information means from parent to offspring
    • Horizontal transfer of genetic information happens between species
    • One bacteria has a gene to resist an antibiotic, and another doesn’t. One bacteria can obtain that gene from the antibiotic resistant bacteria (ex. Antibiotic-resistant staphylococcus)
  • Gene transfer can happen in multicellular creatures like mushrooms
    • Fungi are exchanging genes through different species
    • Paneolis Mushrooms did not inherit the biosynthetic pathway to produce psilocybin, they received it from a totally different genera

KT Extinction

  • A comet impact that caused havoc and climate change that resulted in the extinction of dinosaurs
    • Mega herbivores, putting out tons of herbivore dung
  • The genes to make psilocybin were acquired by a dung loving Paneolis from a dung loving Psilocybe
    • Dung attracts flies, but it doesn’t kill the insects that eat psilocybin
  • Psilocybin is one of the safest drugs for consumption
  • The amatoxin in Amanita Muscaria (The Destroying Angel, commonly mistaken with Matsutake), interrupts the central part of cellular metabolism

Identifying Genes in Psilocybin

  • He sequenced 3 different species of mushrooms that make psilocybin, and then looked at one species that didn’t make psilocybin
    • They take two pieces of DNA and then compare them
    • They all have those genes, but how did they get them?
    • Validated the biosynthesis of psilocybin
  • Mediated Horizontal Gene Transfer
    • When fungi are under stress they take the DNA from their environment

Cicada Parasitism

  • There are cicada pathogens that infect the cicadas before they emerge from their ‘underground’ and their rear end is transformed into these spore producing structures
    • They fly around and drop their spores all over
  • Are these plants or fungi are using any of these neurochemicals in house for cognition?
  • Turing test – a computer can convince you that it’s human

Link

Website

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Jason

Jason Slot is an Evolutionary Biologist that studies topics in three major areas, the genomic and metabolic bases of fungal adaptation and niche, horizontal gene transfer mechanisms and the evolution of symbioses. He is in the Department of Plant Pathology at Ohio State University.

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Philip Wolf – Terpenes, Social Consumption and the Cannabis Experience

Philip Wolf - Cultivating Spirits


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In this episode, Joe interviews Philip Wolf founder of Cultivating Spirits, a cannabis pairing company. The talk includes topics on Terpenes, Social Consumption and the Cannabis experience industry.

3 Key Points:

  1. Terpenes are the component in cannabis that produce the aroma and ‘mood’ you will be in after smoking.
  2. As more and more places legalize cannabis, the market opportunity for combining food and cannabis grows.
  3. Cultivating Spirits is a cannabis experience and tour company that offers small-batch cannabis, fine wines, and locally sourced gourmet meals. They are a leader in cannabis-infused experiences.

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Philip

  • Philip has been in the legal industry of cannabis in Colorado for 9 years
    • Cultivating Spirits started in Breckenridge, Colorado in 2014 after legalization
    • He went to a wine experience event and had an epiphany of bringing the cannabis experience to the ‘soccer mom’
    • He walked away from equity in multiple companies because he believed in it
    • Cultivating Spirits is the first company to offer a cannabis pairings experience
    • After learning about terpenes he learned about pairing foods with attributes of cannabis

Terpenes

  • There are 3 components in cannabis that give you certain feelings
    • THC gets you high, gives a euphoric feeling
    • Flavonoids
    • Terpenes produce the aroma of cannabis and it determines the ‘mood’ you will be in after smoking
  • Terpenes are produced in all plants and produce, they attract pollinators and help fight disease within the plant
  • THC-A is non-activated THC, meaning it needs a flame or heat to activate it
  • Michael Pollan’s book – Botany of Desire
  • At the base genetic level, our goal is to reproduce and expand
    • “Are we the workers for this plant?” – Philip Wolf

People’s Reactions

  • They are loving it!
  • The average age for a  person who attends Cultivating Spirits is 45
  • Cultivating Spirits focuses on parties and events
  • Old folks are some of the best clientele, they don’t have jobs and they are done with all of the hassles of making a family and working hard for their job, etc.

Microserving

  • Microserving is one hit
    • Holding cannabis in longer doesn’t get you higher, it’s about the surface area of your lungs
    • So if you expand your lungs very lightly, you will get less high than if you would if you fully expand your lungs when taking a hit

Expansion

  • Cultivating Spirits operates all over Colorado
    • They are working to expand to Las Vegas
  • They also opened up Cannabition
  • They are taking this business to other places with good heart

Cannabis Nightclubs and Social Consumption Lounges

  • Cannabis isn’t the reason for the decline in alcohol sales, but the desire for new experiences
  • Philip believes it will happen first through coffee shops
    • Everyone needs food, so it’s a great market to integrate into
    • “I use cannabis like I use a cup of coffee, I use it, but I don’t use it all day” – Philip Wolf

Cannabis… Psychedelic?

  • There is a psychoactive part to cannabis
    • Philip says he uses cannabis to deepen his meditation and yoga practice
    • He is a Certified Yoga Teacher
    • Although he is certified to teach, he did it for himself and to learn tools he can use during his whole life
  • Cannabis is a mirror – it’s what’s inside already but getting amplified

First Dinner Approved by Municipality

  • The opening of X-games in Aspen, CO in 2015
    • 5 courses, 5 wines, 5 strains of cannabis
    • A DJ from Thievery Corporation deriving beats from where the food dishes come from
    • Jessica Catalano – Infusion Chef

Learning More

Links

Cultivating Spirits Website
Cannabis Wedding Expo
Facebook

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Philip Wolf

Philip Wolf is one of the world’s first pot sommeliers, an expert and pioneer in the field. In 2014, he opened Cultivating Spirits with a mission to show mainstream America how cannabis should be treated. Setting tables with forks, wine, and pipes, Wolf’s pairings are grounded in the science of interpening, which the institute calls “a method used to identify and understand cannabis variety [by] interpreting … terpenes and flower structure.” Wolf can sniff a bud, identify the strain and terpenes, and interpret both the flavor profile and high. The protocol for his dinner with bud pairings is puff, eat, drink.

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Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente – Kosmicare, Boom and Psychedelic Emergency Services


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Today in the show, Joe talks to Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente, founding members of Kosmicare, a drug testing, and harm reduction service at the Portugal Festival, Boom. Joe talks to Maria and Helena on their personal backgrounds, how they got into Boom, research on recreational use, what harm reduction looks like, and what populations are underserved. Drug use is decriminalized in Portugal, and the focus of risk minimization has been useful in getting the population served versus putting people in prison.

3 Key Points:

  1. Kosmicare is a harm reduction and psychedelic emergency service starting at Boom music festival in Portugal. Working to support other events in Europe.
  2. Boom is in Portugal, where drugs are decriminalized and drug testing is legal. Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has had.
  3. The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, and HIV infection. Other countries like the US should consider a drug reform with the current opioid crisis.

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Kosmicare

  • Kosmicare is a non-profit organization that looks to transform nightlife culture through humanistic, comprehensive and evidence-based policies and interventions
  • They work toward a world where drugs can be used with liberty and wisdom
  • Making festivals safe in Europe

About Maria

  • Psychologist, graduated in 1999 at University of Porto
  • She started working in the field of problematic drug use
    • Growing up in a difficult neighborhood was her purpose for getting into studying psychology and drug use
    • She began focusing on recreational use
    • Her younger brother was into the Electronic Dance scene and positioning himself with using substances
    • She was interested in studying other motivations to use drugs than just using drugs to feed a problem
  • She heard an announcement by MAPS in 2008 recruiting volunteers to do work in psychedelic emergency at Boom
    • It was the perfect match considering her interest in psychology and drug use in recreational environments

About Helena

  • Helena is a Psychologist who was interested in drug use
  • She wanted to have field experience, and she volunteered in a needle exchange program
    • She began working for a harm reduction project to work in recreational settings that needed volunteers
    • She became interested in the potential that drug checking has in the harm reduction strategy
  • They are working toward a ‘drop-in’ where people can show up to a permanent space for drug checking and harm reduction

The Numbers

  • Over 20,000 people showed up to Kosmicare’s information session
  • This year for the first time, Kosmicare had an HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography) to identify LSD and pills
    • They tested over 700 drug samples in 6 days
  • Maria says half of the Boom population gets in contact with Kosmicare
    • They serve 1% of the Boom population for psychedelic emergency (about 350 cases out of 35,000 attendees)
    • The episodes usually have to do with psycho-spiritual situations versus just an emergency about the drug taken

Psychedelic Emergencies

  • Boom is a transformational festival that hosts attendees from over 50 countries
  • Boom is different from Burning Man in that Boom is in Portugal which has a much more legal framework which helps with the services that can be offered
    • Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has
    • Joe states that there are numbers of regulatory police at Burning Man
    • Kosmicare is included in the entire setup of Boom, which helps reduce the number of scenarios that would cause an emergency at the festival, such as providing shaded areas all over
    • It gets up to 43 degrees Celcius (108 Fahrenheit)
    • But there is a water element so people can refresh themselves
  • In the largest dance areas at the festival, they included medical emergency Teepees so attendees could be helped as quickly as possible

Recreational Drug Use

  • They did a survey on recreational drug use and most of the respondents said they use drugs in a beneficial way that doesn’t interrupt their lives in a bad way
    • Similarly with Boom attendees, most of them want to use harm reduction techniques so they have positive experiences and don’t develop problems with their drug use
    • Mat Southwell “drug users are calculated risk takers”
    • “The legal framework has a terrible influence on people’s relationship with drugs” – Helena

Lessons Learned

  • Maria says they have had many groundbreaking challenges
  • In 2016 they had someone die on them while having a psychedelic emergency
    • It made her really question why she was doing this
    • Her first impression was that she was doing this work to save the inexperienced user
    • She was caught off guard by the person who died because they were an experienced user and didn’t taking unadulterated substances
    • “People may go over the top for a wide variety of reasons, it was the biggest lesson I learned working for the Psychedelic Emergency services” – Maria
    • It’s hard to determine people’s ability to calculate risks
    • If the person had collapsed in front of an urban hospital in the city, the Hospital couldn’t have done anything more than what they did at Kosmicare

Collaborations

  • Kosmicare has a collaborative relationship with Zendo
  • MAPS was hired by Boom to direct the harm reduction services
  • They use a lot of Stan Grof techniques for transpersonal psychology
  • They are partnered with many other organizations in Europe that are trying to deliver the same type of psychedelic emergency and harm reduction services

The Risks of Drug Policy

  • Joe points out that there are so many festivals happening without these services
    • The Rave Act prevents companies from attending festivals because it “harbors” drug use
  • In Portugal, the fact that drug use is decriminalized, it opened up a legal framework around harm reduction
    • Portugal is one of the few countries where drug checking is allowed by law
    • The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, HIV infection, tuberculosis and other things
  • Helena says that the US should rethink their drug policy considering the opioid epidemic
    • In Portugal, there were only 12 overdose cases with heroin and opioids

Portugal before the Drug Policy

  • In the 80’s, there was a heroin epidemic, which had an epidemic of high infection rates and HIV. This motivated the policy change
    • It was evident that prohibition was not working
  • Usually when it affects only poor people, no one cares, but the fentanyl crisis is affecting all sorts of populations

Links

Website
Facebook

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Maria


Maria Carmo Carvalho, Kosmicare Manager, Boom Festival, Portugal, is a Lecturer at the Faculty of Education and Psychology at the Catholic University of Portugal. She researches if the field of psychoactive substance use and has completed a MSc and a PhD at the University of Porto on the field of psychoactive substance use, youth and recreational environments. She is Vice-President of ICEERS and Kosmicare Boom Festival manager since 2012.

About Helena


Helena Valente began working with people that use drugs in 2004, focusing in nightlife settings. Helena has a vast experience in coordinating national and European projects in the drug field. At the moment she is a researcher and PhD. Candidate at the Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences of the Porto University and founding member of Kosmicare Association.

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Lori Tipton and Shari Taylor – A First Hand Report of MDMA Therapy for PTSD


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In this episode, Lori shares her first hand experience of MDMA Therapy assisted by Therapist, Shari Taylor. Shari Taylor is a PhD, MSN and RYT(Registered Yoga Teacher).
Both from New Orleans, Lori Tipton was Shari’s MDMA patient who suffered from traumatic life experiences and PTSD.

3 Key Points:

  1. Lori shares her heartfelt story about her experience in healing her PTSD in MDMA Therapy
  2. Before her therapy, Lori says she struggled with loving herself, and the fact that she loves herself now after her healing is the reason she is alive today
  3. Lori says she wants people to understand that this is a legitimate form of therapy, and wants this to be accessible to everyone

About Lori

  • Lori has a love/hate relationship with social media
    • She saw on Facebook that they were opening the phase 3 trials for MDMA therapy in New Orleans
    • Sent an email on a whim and Shari replied
    • They looked for people who suffered from significant traumatic events in their lives
      • Lori lost her brother to a drug overdose, her mother killed two people and she was the one to discover their bodies, and she was raped by someone she trusted and got pregnant and then had an abortion
    • Lori says there was an extensive screening process and psychometric testing
      • “You become more of a manifestation of the disorder, and it starts to become who you are” – Lori
      • She felt so ‘untethered’ and removed from everyone and everything because of her PTSD

Day one of Therapy

  • There are many sessions before even taking MDMA to get to know each other first
    • Set and setting are so important
  • Lori says she went in with an open mindset, but was so skeptical
    • She had seen psychologists, psychiatrists, endocrinologists, dietitians, taken anti anxiety meds and antidepressants, went vegan, became a yoga teacher, and even saw a witch doctor
    • But she was nervous that she was going to go into the sessions and come out a different person, which had her start to question who she really was

Taking the MDMA

  • She was offered the MDMA, and she accepted it
    • She lied there, started to feel the effects, listened to the music playing and it reminded her of a film she had seen
      • Buddy Boulden a trumpet player, who passed away at 30 at a mental institution in Louisiana
      • So this just popped into her head and then she told Shari about it and then next thing she knew she was telling her about her mother and her rape
  • The way that MDMA worked for her in the first session is that when she had a memory, she could feel it, and she hadn’t truly felt the feelings from those memories before
  • As the session ended, it was anticlimactic
    • She said it was like dipping the corner of a towel in water, the water would eventually cover the whole towel
    • The amygdala is getting shut down in therapy, so you’re able to bring up these memories without getting overwhelmed

Days Following Therapy

  • Lori said after the first session, it was awesome! She went and got pizza and it was the best pizza she has ever had in her life!
    • The first session of MDMA allowed her to experience life in a way she hadn’t been in years
    • Her partner noticed her enjoying the world, and noticed the changes the most
    • Lori wrote a lot before going into the sessions, and writing has helped her with her healing

The Second Session

  • Having PTSD led her to repress her feelings
    • When she locked up her fear and anxiety, she unfortunately locked up happiness too
  • In the second session she took more MDMA, and it really helped her
    • She felt she was able to really separate herself from her memories and feelings and emotions
    • “It was like taking off a pair of foggy glasses and it was so empowering” – Lori
      • Joe mentions that after his one and only ayahuasca session, he got a strong message that he needed to reconnect to his family
      • He says MDMA is so special in that it allows you to feel love in such a strong way, unbounded
        • Lori says she struggled with loving herself, and the fact that she loves herself now is the reason she is alive today
      • She says her experience is proof that MDMA is not a schedule 1 drug
        • Joe says he hopes that the testing goes well to move MDMA into an accessible space
        • Lori agrees and wants this to be accessible for everyone in her life
        • She believes its revolutionary for psychology
  • After the second session, she didn’t want to run away from her feelings, she didn’t want to kill herself
    • Healing isn’t always pretty, sometimes it looks like crying on the couch for 6 hours of the day
    • She knew she had to be with those feelings
  • Her therapist and her tarot card reader both said she would be more of herself after the therapy

The Third Session

  • She believes in the power of the drug, but it was also the support of the therapists. The combination of the two is where magic happened
  • After walking into her mother’s death, she couldn’t remember so many parts of those moments
    • In that third session, she revisited that memory, and was more present in her memory than what she saw in that moment in her real life
    • She remembered things she wasn’t able to remember from her life from over a decade
    • She was able to have such empathy for herself in that situation
    • In that moment, she would have been full of so much shame or blame and she was able to empathize with herself and forgive herself
    • “These types of experiences transcend words of how it feels to release that pain” – Lori
  • With the feeling of the release about her memory with her mother, she then began to talk about her rape and her whole demeanor shifted
    • She was talking about it in an angry tone
    • She had triggers post rape, when trying to have sex with someone she loved and it felt like a tiger entered the room, just frightened and in fear
    • Certain yoga poses also triggered this PTSD response
      • In the therapy session, Shari asked her to try entering into the yoga poses that gave her those feelings
      • Lori was overcome with anxiety, fear, she cried, and felt like she was in hell
      • Shari asked “what are you feeling?”
      • Lori said she felt afraid and full of fear
      • And Shari looked at her and asked “what does that feeling need?”
      • Lori responded and said “it just needs to be heard”
        • After that moment, she felt this huge release
        • “There are very few moments in my life that are so profound and beautiful and meaningful to me” – Lori
        • Joe said there is some magic in yoga to unveil certain energies when working through PTSD

Afterglow

  • She stayed the night each time after a session
  • The morning after she had an integrative session
    • She felt like she accomplished more than she even thought was possible
    • There was not a part of her that understood how magnificent her experience was going to be
    • She has been given the gift of being present in the moment
    • She now has the ability to be with the people she loves, it changed her life
  • To a therapist, who really wants people to be their best selves, this has to be a beautiful thing to see
  • Joe says we are seeing movement with this kind of therapy
    • With trials, publications, and people coming forward with their stories, its changing the mental health narrative
    • Lori wants people to understand that this is a legitimate therapy
    • “To deny this therapy is a disservice to human kind” – Lori

Life for Lori After MDMA Therapy

  • Startle response is so low
    • She works in a bar, and things are dropped and she used to jump at everything, and now she doesn’t anymore
  • She’s less quick to get angry because she’s not thinking about all of the horrible stuff that could happen at the next moment
  • Her ability to be present in the moment has helped her raise her son
  • She doesn’t have triggering moments when she is aroused
  • She is feeling joy and happiness in a way she hasn’t felt in over a decade

Shari’s Thoughts

  • Hearing Lori’s story gave her a new passion in her field
  • Chipping away at the barriers through MDMA therapy is so remarkable
    • Therapists create a safe environment with trust and the ability for patients to allow their barriers to fall down so that their inner healer can come out, to help them heal themselves
  • She feels so lucky to be a part of this type of therapy
    • Stan Grof – inner healer
    • The same way that your body knows how to heal a wound on your hand, your mind also knows how to heal your psyche
  • After Hurricane Katrina, suicide rates tripled
  • Shari gets hundreds of emails from people wanting to be in this study, she hopes or it to become more available for people in the future
  • For people who are more interested in learning about these trials, get on the MAPS mailing list
  • Joe says or someone with PTSD symptoms, it’s not always the best idea to go down to Peru and do ayahuasca, they could get re-traumatized
    • Joe hopes for expanded access sooner than completion of phase 3 testing
  • He says for therapists interested in MDMA therapy, he really hopes they dive in and learn a lot

Final Thoughts

  • Having discussions like this, storytelling, has the ability to change many people’s mindsets
  • Taking MDMA away from counterculture will be the quicker we can see drug reform
  • Whether we see decriminalization, or given expanded access, we need to be aware of what that looks like so everyone can have access to this experience
  • It’s important to break the stigma of psychedelics so people are more open to their benefits

Main Goals

  • We want doctors to be able to use these drugs
  • We want people to to use these drugs without going to jail
  • We want a flourishing underground provider network that are skilled
  • We need to keep working toward re-scheduling

Links

Lori
https://medium.com/@LoriTipton

Shari
info.nolaresearch@gmail.com
Fluencetraining.com: Shari Taylor

About Lori Tipton

Lori Tipton is an MDMA Assisted Therapy patient who suffered from traumatic life experiences and PTSD.

About Dr. Shari Taylor

Dr. Shari Taylor holds a PhD in Psychology from Northcentral University, a Master’s of Science in Nursing from the University of South Alabama, and a Post-Master’s of Science from the University of Wisconsin-Madison specializing in the field of child/adolescent psychology. She is a Registered Yoga Therapist and teaches yoga both privately and in a class setting. Dr. Taylor is an avid participant in the art, music, and culture scene in New Orleans, Louisiana. She is continually enrolled in courses and workshops to expand her knowledge of nutrition, psychology, wellness, and spirituality.

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James Oroc – Burning Man, Bufo and 5-MEO-DMT politics


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James Oroc is the Author of Tryptamine Palace and the New Psychedelic Revolution.
Show topics include Burning Man, visionary art, drug war, and politics around the 5-MEO-DMT experience.

3 Key Points:

  1. James Oroc is cautious about the medicalization of psychedelics. He believes psychedelics do not necessarily heal sick people, but instead bring a new perspective to healthy users.
  2. The 5-MEO-DMT experience is not like the typical psychedelic experience, not everyone should do it, and there are some serious negative side effects that could last for years if not integrated properly.
  3. The Bufo Alvarius desert toad is at risk. With climate change and the demand for using them for their 5-MEO-DMT, there is a lot of pressure on their survival as a species.

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About James

  • James has written a few psychedelic books, and is kind of a psychedelic icon
    • His interests are in noveling and extreme sports journalism
    • He wrote a book for Burning man, and gave away 500 copies at the festival
    • He is a world-class paragliding competitor
    • He believes always being in nature is important
    • In the late 80’s the psychedelic culture had crashed, except for the mountain towns, which is where the psychedelic community ended up
      • Joe lives in the Rockies, and was hanging out in Aspen and ran into an old hippie deadhead who talked about skiing on mescaline, when everyone would typically ski on acid
    • In James new book he goes into psychedelics and extreme sports, about using a dose smaller than the psychedelic dose but larger than a microdose
      • Joe references a movie, Valley Uprising, where most of the climbers would hang out on the side of a mountain face, party all night, drop a bunch of acid and then sprint to the top

James’ Interest in Psychedelics

  • James says that 5-MEO-DMT converted him from to being a scientific, rationalist, atheist to agnostic, being merged and one with the god source, through the classic mystical experience
    • He says it took him multiple years to figure out how a 40-minute trip experience shifted his entire perspective for the rest of his life
    • That’s why he wrote his Burning Man book, as a way to help others relate to the experience and make their own sense of it
      • Joe says James Book is far more fascinating than Michael Pollan’s Book, especially for people that have been in the psychedelic space for a while
      • Michael Pollan states in his book that LSD was given to Tim Leary by Alfred Hubbard, but James says that’s not true, he says that a man by the name of Michael Hollingsworth gave LSD to Leary, after coming to America with a jar of mayonnaise full of LSD
      • James says its amusing for Pollan to form stories to fit his own narrative
        He says Pollan has talked about using psychedelics only four times, and that he doesn’t like the psychedelic culture and by using them we will become more depressed

        • James thinks depression is a result of the paradigm that we are in
        • “I don’t like the idea of psychedelics being used as bandaids to help people except for the current paradigm, I like the idea of psychedelics being dynamite, to help bring the next paradigm shift” – James
        • Smart people are depressed because they are realizing we are screwing this planet up, and we may not have that much time left on it
        • He called it ‘extinction denial’ in his last book, and after writing his last book in 2009, its gotten exponentially worse
        • Joe asks James why he thinks people are denying the extinction narrative
        • James replies saying people feel like they can’t do anything about it, they worry about paycheck to paycheck, and get caught up in all the small distractions of life. He says no wonder people are depressed

Psychedelics aren’t a Medicine

  • James thinks the only reason they didn’t take hold as medicines in the 60’s is because they were difficult to use, and didn’t fit in the medical model
    • “The problem with medicalization is it puts psychedelics in one box, I’m more interested in giving psychedelics to healthy people than sick people”
    • They don’t fall under the true classification of medicines
    • James thinks they should be called therapy, instead of medicine
    • He understands the interest of why people want to use them as medicines, but that shouldn’t be the only way they are used
  • Joe adds that the medicalization doesn’t mean rescheduling – via drug policy alliance
    • James says that last year alone had the most arrests for cannabis than any other year, even as more states are ‘legalizing’
    • Joe mentions a comment from Brian Normand who runs Psymposia, “Is cannabis really legal, if you can only have 6 plants? It’s just heightened regulation.”
    • James thinks that keeping cannabis illegal in the south is the main tool for racial profiling, it’s the gateway drug to prison
      • Brooklyn wants to release 20,000 cannabis offenders

America

  • James thinks living in America is like living in the belly of the beast
    • There are so many forces at work in the US, James thinks the best thing for the world would be for it to break up in a few smaller countries, although it’s probably not going to happen
      • “It’s not where you want to be, its where they’ll have ya” – James
  • The data that John Hopkins comes up with is what we need to fight the cognitive liberty we should have to take psychedelics
    • Roland Griffith
    • Joe says Stan Grof became uninterested in the research of psychedelics and became more interested in visionary art
      • Creativity is what could help us survive
      • “Art could be the next religion” – Alex Grey

Reemergence of Spirit

  • James thinks we are in an interesting time in history, all of the models and structures are collapsing, we are getting to an individualized view of everything.
  • We have the right to create our own spirituality and religion. If we all go find what we find and then come together in clusters of like findings, that is a way for our spirituality to grow
    • Daniel Pinchbeck mentions cloistering up in small subculture communities focused on individual sub-aspects of what interest you
    • The reemergence of spirit is important and can happen with the democratization of psychedelics
    • Psychedelics play a role in inner reality and outer reality
    • “Psychedelic perspective is the worldview that we take on as a psychedelic user, and its the perspective that the planet needs to survive. Whether as a society that we can shift to that perspective quick enough, is the issue. But the tools are in hand.” – James

Burning Man

  • James tells a story of this wealthy CEO who attends Burning Man, and gets back and realizes he’s a rich asshole and starts contemplating how he can make his company better for the world and be better to his employees
    • Burning Man has a lot of potentials like psychedelics do, but it was easier back then Burning Man has blown up and isn’t what it used to be
      • These highly impactful experiences are more influential when they are small
    • Boom, a festival in Portugal is a free environment because everything is legal, there is no paranoia
      • Burning Man used to be free, but because things are still illegal, it has more of a defensive posture now
      • There are so many resources, police, undercovers, put into Burning Man for how little of crime that happens
        • Joe says its a means to scare the people
  • There’s a report that the administration put out recently that agreed that climate change is happening but they don’t want to do anything about it

Psychedelics

  • James says he is a very interested observer to see psychedelics ‘come out of the closet’
  • Is medicalization a means to take the fangs off of the drug war, or take power away from the psychedelic culture?
    • James says medicalization is just a financial opportunity
    • MDMA is leading the push toward legalization
      • US Military is super interested in MDMA because of the PTSD
      • Drone operators suffer from depression when they realize they are bombing people they’ve never even seen
      • But the MDMA could keep these operators at the desk

History of government’s involvement in psychedelics

  • Robert Forte – The Dark History of Psychedelics
  • MK Ultra did happen
  • Robert believes Albert Hofman was in charge
  • OSS – Office of Strategic Services
  • John Perry Barlow – founder of EFF Electronic Freedom Foundation
  • John Gillmore – had the largest civil suit against the US govt. for phone tapping
  • If you have an intense psychedelic experience, take some time and integrate it
    • “The first place you go after a major psychedelic experience is the library”
  • James says 5-MEO-DMT was the greatest intellectual adventure of his life
    • He couldn’t grasp the concept of quantum physics, after 5-MEO-DMT it was one of the only things that made sense
  • Alexander Shulgin – plus four
    • James had a paradigm shift after the first time smoking 5-MEO-DMT
    • He says 5-MEO-DMT is extremely powerful, he doesn’t do it as much anymore, because he appreciates how powerful it is
    • He also believes that it’s wrong for ‘shamans’ to take the drug while facilitating
    • LSD is considered not powerful because its been dialed down
      • People don’t take the same dose that people used to in the 70’s
  • Every community should have its own psychonaut
  • James thinks people should not start with 5-MEO-DMT, but start with something less intense like mushrooms and a walk in the woods
    • Joe did a lot of holotropic breathwork before taking psychedelics
    • So many people go right to ayahuasca because they are out of the psychedelic culture and are being advertised to
    • James is annoyed with people calling drugs medicine out of context, like at a festival
    • He thinks toad is a sacrament, or therapy, not medicine. It hasn’t healed anybody
    • He believes that the ‘toad shaman’ culture will be eliminated once chemists start to synthesize 5-MEO-DMT
      • The toads are coming from an overly populated desert, and with climate change, there is a lot of pressure on these species survival

Final Thoughts

  • James suggestions
    • The 5-MEO-DMT experience is unique, it’s not like the typical psychedelic experience, not everyone should do it, and there are some serious negative side effects that could last for years if not integrated properly
    • Start with classic psychedelics like LSD or mushrooms, and go for a walk outside
  • Stan Grof’s house/library burnt down, Terence McKenna lost two libraries, and Jonathan Ott’s library burnt down. Decades of research burnt down

Check out this our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”

Links

About James

Journalist, photographer, and artist James Oroc was born in the small South Pacific nation of Aotearoa. Since 1998 he has been pursuing and reporting on the cutting edge of extreme sports in more than 40 countries around the globe, his work appearing in magazines, films, and on MTV Sports. He has been a member of the Burning Man community since 1999, and he is also involved in the documentation and advancement of “Alternative Culture.”

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Tom Hatsis – Microdosing, Magic and Psychedelic History

Tom Hastis


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Tom Hatsis is an intellectual, occultist, psychedelic user and advocate from Portland, Oregon. In the show, Joe and Tom talk about his new book about microdosing. Joe prepares listeners about the controversial topic, magick, which is highly discussed in the show. Witch craft, western shamanism, old religion and magick are all mentioned during the conversation. Tom is a coordinator for Sanctum Psychedelica, a psychedelic club in Portland.

3 Key Points:

  1. Tom’s book Microdosing Magic is a book of templates for people to fill in the blank according to what works for them
  2. Magic isn’t the ‘hocus pocus’ witchy stuff that people always assume, it’s actually mind hacking, reframing and neurogenesis, that every individual is born with the ability to tap into
  3. Magic is a great way to create containers to frame our psychedelic experiences

Support the show

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Tom

Tom’s Book – Microdosing Magic: A Psychedelic Spellbook
Tom thinks having a childlike wonder and being curious helped him write his book
He has written 4 books, 3 have been in psychedelic topics
Tom’s background – a part of the Roller derby background since 2005
His first book was called The Roller Derby: A Sensation that caused a Book, the Confessions of a Roller Derby Mascot.
Then he got into psychedelic history and wrote The Witch’s Ointment, Psychedelic Mystery Traditions and his newest book, Microdosing Magic.
Portland is a great place for the psychedelic renaissance

Microdosing Magic

Tom said we should be using psychedelics in a magical way
Joe agrees saying when using psychedelics we should be flexible philosophically
Joe mentions the Robert Anton Wilson reality tunnels
We all have a B.S. (Belief System) and then reality tunnels are the marxist sunglasses and the capitalist sunglasses and feminist sunglasses, instead of having 40 glasses to see behind bias, we all have our own pair of shades
Microdosing is a tool that helps people become childlike, more genius

Magic

Microdosing Magic is a book of templates for people to fill in the blank to what works with them
Tom never tells people what to do with psychedelics, he is offering insight and techniques
Using his own techniques, him and his partner are about to win a guinness world record
“If microdosing is like a healthy diet and magic is like exercise, that’s great. But what happens when you put healthy diet with exercise? You have something far more powerful than those two things could have been by themselves. That’s how microdosing magic works.”
Magic = mind hacking, re-framing and neurogenesis

The Four Gifts

Tom talks about ‘The Four Gifts’ in his book
They make up the beginning of his personal magical system that he has cultivated over his lifetime
Carl Sagan quote, “The cosmos are within us, we are a way for the universe to know itself”
Tom agrees strongly with that saying, he thinks we are microdoses of that cosmic magic and from it, we’ve received 3 immaterial gifts, Intellect, Emotion and Will, however, due to our evolution in physical bodies, we’ve inherited a fourth gift, action
The magical system is about aligning your intellect, emotion and will, so that when we take action, we are acting in pure magic
Magic is super powerful, not something that happens at Disney World. It’s a very real thing that every individual is born with the ability to tap into
Orenda – the magic that you are born with
Microdosing Magic is Tom’s small contribution to bettering the world
Joe says there are so many people that practice subtle magic and don’t even know it; in catholic religion, in yoga practice
Tom has a friend who ‘doesn’t believe in magic’, who is a hardcore material reductionist, who has a ‘lucky hat’
Tom – “This isn’t for people with claws and fangs, magic is for anybody who recognizes their own power and wants to harness their power to make their lives and the world around them a better place”
Neurogenesis, better firing, and re-framing happens in a person’s brain after consuming Psilocybin, Lions Mane and Reishi
Tom says he was addicted to coffee, and after using Microdosing Magic, he hasn’t needed a cup of coffee on 8 months because of his new neural pathways
Joe jokes about overdosing on coffee for a few months on his coffee addiction
Tom jokes back that he’d just drink it out of the pot

Creative Genius

Dr. George Land study – 98% of 5 year old scored in the creative genius category in the same test that 32 year-olds only scored 2%
The modern education system robs us of our creative genius that we all had when we were kids, but at no fault to the teachers. The education system, buys these education models that just don’t work
Tom – “You have to use the internet wisely and not foolishly, to educate yourself and not de-educate yourself”

The Book Tour

Joe asks about the most interesting questions Tom has received on tour
Most people ask about dose sizes and safety questions
Tom explains that he gets nervous about certain questions because he isn’t a medical professional or a therapist
Tom “If you wouldn’t take a psychedelic dose, don’t start microdosing”

Microdosing

Tom has been microdosing on and off for over 20 years
“We didn’t call it microdosing, we called it being broke, we could only afford 1/8th of acid, so we split it up. We felt way more energy, I started writing way more songs, I couldn’t put my guitar down. It sparks that creativity”
Joe says it’s never been a better time for the psychedelic and microdosing renaissance
Cannabis is now legal in 13 states
FDA just approved mushrooms for PTSD in Canada
MDMA is in phase 3 testing
Tom says people in Silicon Valley, and believes people in Congress and DC are microdosing, they just can’t talk about it
He mentions a talk he just did in Salem, a very conservative place, and no one had any questions. And then after the talk, everybody came up to him privately and asked him their questions
Tim Leary made a joke on Liberals not wanting to ‘risk face’
Joe comments on Tom’s book saying it was playful, inspiring, and not threatening like some magic can be
Tom says we don’t have villages for support anymore, we have community which has replaced that
Sanctum Psychedelia’s main focus is community building
Tom uses an example of people going to Peru, taking ayahuasca, and because they don’t have that mystical framework, they come back to their regular lives and say “now what”? That’s why integration and community are so important
Tom says he’d love to see ayahuasca and ibogaine clinics with all the great results people have received from their heroine or cigarette addictions
Tom’s favorite presentation ever was Mark Haden’s blueprint on the future of psychedelics psychotherapy Mark Haden’s Presentation on Psycehdelics
Mark Haden Psychedelic Reneissance

Cannabis and the War on Drugs

Tom likes to buy his cannabis directly from his farmer, he prefers to not have the government interfere
He says Gene Simmons from KISS has been so anti cannabis and now all of a sudden is promoting cannabis
Joe brings in the drug war issue, or the issue of people being put in jail for nonviolent crimes (cannabis)
Tom brings in another issue, saying that if a person is charged for drugs at one point in time that later becomes legal, they aren’t allowed freedom because of the fact that they did the crime during the time where it was illegal
Racism and the war on drugs really bothers Tom

Amanita and the True History of Christian Psychedelic History

Predominant Paradigm – the ‘Holy Mushroom’
Tom says there aren’t mushrooms in Christian art after doing the historical research
Source
He has debunked the Amanita Muscaria Santa Claus connection
Psychedelic Santa
Debate with John Rush
The Mushroom in Christian Art: The Identity of Jesus in the Development of Christianity
People say the Amanita Muscaria and Santa Claus outfit are the same colors, but Santa’s outfit comes from the American Flag
Carl Ruck
Dionysus in Thrace: Ancient Entheogenic Themes in the Mythology and Archeology of Northern Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey
Psychedelic Christianity – a scholarly debate
a scholarly debate pt. 2

Final Thoughts

Tom – “Psychedelics are an excellent way to change your mind and yourself”
Magic is a great way to create containers to frame difficult psychedelic experiences. It’s about putting new frames on your reality

Links

Tom’s website
Instagram
Facebook
Youtube
Tom’s Book

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Tom

Tom Hatsis.

Thomas Hatsis is an author, lecturer, and historian of witchcraft, magic, Western religions, contemporary psychedelia, entheogens, and medieval pharmacopeia. In his spare time he visits rare archives, slings elixirs, and coaches roller derby.

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Lex Pelger – Bluebird Botanicals


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Key Takeaways

  1. Bluebird Botanicals is leading the industry in third-party testing and Lab results, green initiatives and a stand on hemp policy.
  2. CBD helps cushion the psychoactive impact of THC on CB1 receptors, making for a less intense ‘high’.
  3. Lex has a lot of hope for the 2018 Farm Bill, and believes hemp has widespread uses that will open many market opportunities in the future.

Intro
Joe interviews Lex Pelger, Science Director of Bluebird Botanicals, a Colorado-based company. They talk about CBD and the issues with the FDA talking about health benefits. The use cases of hemp and drug war are discussed.

Who is Lex Pelger?
He is a Science Director of Bluebird Botanicals. Lex moves from New York to Colorado. He did a psychedelic storytelling open mic tour (Blue Dot tour) across the USA and it culminated at the MAPS Psychedelic Science Conference. Moved from the hustle of New York to Colorado to have his baby.

The Cannabinoid
Lex gets excited the more he learns about how intricate the endocannabinoid system is to humans and all mammals
Bluebird Botanicals doesn’t make any medical claims
CDB supports health and homeostasis
The cannabinoid system was discovered in the body only 25 years ago
Opium and Cannabis were the two oldest plants used in the body
There isn’t anyone connection for cannabis, because there are so many receptors in the human body
There is a ton of research happening on cannabinoids
Lex thinks the research ban on phytocannabinoids is unfortunate
Cannabis and cannabinoids are the most studied drugs in the US
CBD functions as a homeostasis molecule
Anandamide was the first endogenous cannabinoid discovered in the human brain in 1991 by a team led by Raphael Mechoulam in Israel
Raphael Mechoulam discovered the final structure of THC in 1963
CB1 Receptor in the brain was discovered in 1991 also

CB1 Receptor
If the CB1 receptors are blocked in a human or animal, they won’t get ‘high’ on weed
The presence of CBD doesn’t allow THC to fully bind to the CB1 receptor, so when CBD is present in THC, you won’t get quite as high
Lex thinks it’s unfortunate that because weed has been in prohibition, it has been bred so hard to only have THC
He thinks all weed should have a little bit of CBD to cushion the psychoactive nature of THC

The Endocannabinoid System
Joe says there is no profile to test the endocannabinoid system to know if a person is deficient or not, that he knows of
Lex says if you get your genetic results from a company like 23 and me, it will tell you about your cannabinoid alleles
A bad trip to a young brain can damage it forever
The activists that annoy Lex are ones that refuse the obvious negatives
Weed should not be given to all children

The ‘Right to Fly’
Jonathan Thompson – Psychedelic Parenting Blog and Podcast
How to create a community on psychedelics
Noah Potter – Psychedelic Law Blog
An open-source thought experiment in psychedelic law and policy
“This plant is tied down by so many regulations” – Lex
In the state of Colorado, you can’t make new genetics
Lousy laws made it hard to diversify the cannabis plant
Lex believes Aldous Huxley’s book The Island is the best blueprint for what a sane integration of psychedelics and psychoactive might look like.
Lex says people taking mushrooms in the woods together is so special, simply because a group of people is spending 6-8 hours with nature and with each other.

Bluebird Botanicals
Many different products – isolates, oils, vape juice, and topicals will be back soon
Independent Lab Verification
Leading the industry with third-party lab results
Transparent about ingredients, NO pesticides used!
Paired with Eurofins – world’s biggest testing lab
Bluebird partners with the farmers, packaging partners, etc to be green and more eco-friendly always
CEO Brandon hears about a new point of quality to be added, he goes for it
Passed 99% inspection quality, CGMP
Lex thinks its so nice to work for a company that focuses on giving back to the customers, focusing on employees, quality, the planet, and just giving back

CBD Drug Law Changes in California
The regulations restrict being able to add CBD to food, which goes is against the 2014 Federal Farm Bill
Bluebird is on the board for the US Hemp Roundtable – Hemp Policy
Jonathan Miller – Lawyer of the group and writer to address misinterpretation of the law
“It’s foolish to have the 1950’s 1960’s mindset of cannabis” – Joe

Marijuana vs Hemp
Both are cannabis plants
Cannabis is the species, THC is more than .3% THC, Hemp is less than .3% THC
“If a state inspector comes in and tests 6 samples and the results come up as .4% or .5%, they make you burn it. They don’t burn it for you, you have to burn it yourself while you watch.” – Lex
Cannabis is tricky to grow for commercial use
It takes 3 generations for the plant to get used to the environment
“Thank you, farmers, for being farmers” – Joe

2018 Farm Bill
Mitch McConnell majority leader of the Senate, is pushing this because he comes from Kentucky, the Hemp state. The Senate version of the Farm Bill is correct, the House version has none of the correct language in it. McConnell and the pro-hemp committee will hash out the differences between the two bills. This Bill expands on all of the rights so it makes it look more enticing and safe for big businesses like Whole Foods and Banks. This bill is going to open up many markets.

Hemp as an Industrial Product
“What’s really cool about hemp is how widespread the uses are” – Lex
The Hemperor, Jack Herer discovered all of the uses for the hemp plant
Oil and plastic did win, hemp did not win as a top 10 commodity
It’s a hard plant to work within the processing stage
Thomas Jefferson stopped growing hemp because the retting stage was too hard on his slaves
Hemp is not going to change all the markets it’s been said it will transform
Lex says hempcrete is fascinating. Using hemp as lubricants, bath bombs, and just the seeds are fascinating uses
The Russians and the English fought in a war over access to hemp
Hemp is a rope that doesn’t get destroyed by saltwater, fueled the world’s Navy
Fiber is so important, and hemp as a fiber was widespread
Hemp seeds are a perfect mix of essential fatty acids
Hemp seed made pigeons breed more
Joe says there was a huge tradition of people eating pigeons
Agriculture is so bad for topsoil, hemp can help repair our lands for us to keep surviving
Hemp is a holy material in Korea
Joseph Needham layed out all of China’s inventions and explained that the founders of Daoism had a cannabis-induced ‘dream’ and envisioned the first Daoist school where Yin and Yang came from

Lex’s job as a Science Director for Bluebird
Lex does a lot of education around CBD, Cannabinoid science conferences
His passion for cannabis stems from his grandma’s medical condition
He wanted to find a way to describe the cannabinoid system for elders to understand
Lex is thankful for groups like Erowid, who sit down and interview our elders
Lex tells a story about a man who took LSD in the woods, and fell to the ground and felt one with the trees, felt himself rooting down, and felt complete. He never forgot that feeling
Lex thinks that a person should be stable before embarking on a psychedelic journey
“Huxley says that therapists are attracted to psychedelics because of their own dark icebergs” – Lex. He thinks that therapists should be A gatekeeper, not THE gatekeeper

Joe has been trying to get in touch with Dana Beal who popularized ibogaine
“Dana Beal was an old-time, cowboy pot smuggler to fund yippie political activism, outreach, and political activism, so he could make the way that he made money, illegal” – Lex He used the system against itself

Cannabis can cause catalepsy in people – which makes one ‘blackout’
90% of cointel pros were against the Black Panthers
Hoover feared them because they were black and he was racist
They were extremely effective
Lex explains that the war on cannabis has a racist framework, Nixon said “Because black people use cocaine and hippies use cannabis, we can use it against them”
Lex goes on to talk about the history of the CIA, which puts its money into drug trade because it’s untraceable, they protect the drug lords to use it for their own financial benefit
He says the CIA and DEA are inefficient bureaucracies
“Our belief at Bluebird, is we have to end the war on drugs. It’s not a war on drugs, it’s a war on people. The war on drugs is incredibly effective at doing what it was designed to do, and that was to hold, certain people groups down”
Joe comments saying that there are babies being born and being brought into this world. He appreciates Bluebird for having proper business practice

Final Thoughts
Lex finished his Moby Dick Pot books about the endocannabinoid system and the war on drugs He says he based them on Moby Dick because it was the only thing large enough to fit the entire history of cannabis and war on drugs
He does the Greener Grass Podcast for Bluebird which includes topics on cannabis and green initiatives.

He is also a part of the Psychedelic Salon
http://www.lexpelger.com/
https://bluebirdbotanicals.com/

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Brian Pace, M.S. – Find The Others Project

Brian Pace - Find The Others


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Joe Moore interviews Brian Pace. He studies Evolutionary Ecology, is a science consultant at The Third Wave, and is the director of the project, Mind Manifest Midwest, and instigator of the “Find the Others” project.

3 Key Points:

  1. Psychedelics are not just illegal, they are also taboo, and Brian’s efforts are aimed to create spaces that make it more comfortable to talk about psychedelics.
  2. Online resources are great, but having local, and real psychedelic societies to create community will help people “come out” and be comfortable talking about their experiences.
  3. Brian’s interest evolved from ecology to psychedelics when he realized the issue of global warming. The top environmental problems are selfishness and greed, and changing people’s minds with psychedelics is a big hope for the planet.

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Show Notes

  • Getting Involved with The Third Wave
    • Met Paul Austin of The Third Wave at the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance Conference.
    • The conference was foundational in him becoming outspoken about psychedelics.
  • Ibogaine – last resort option for people suffering from addiction.
  • Brian and the team built The Third Wave with the goal to bring the conversation about psychedelics to be more comfortable among the general public.
    • It has been good about building bridges to invite all types of people to the community, not just white males. It’s important to be inclusive in this space.
  • Find the Others
    • Started at Psychedelic Science, to talk about what psychedelic societies are.
    • Aware Project by Ashley Booth (www.awareproject.org)
    • Psychedelics are not just illegal, they are also Taboo – Michael Pollan
    • “Were having a cultural hangover from the upheavals we’ve had in the late 60’s and early 70’s.” – Brian
  • “We can fight taboos when we can have conversations – about that which was taboo – in the grocery store, in the bar, with our parents. I think that’s definitely what’s needed with psychedelics.” – Brian
    • Had the first psychedelic society meeting at a bar that included a presentation about plant secondary compounds and human health and ended with storytelling.
  • 20% of Americans over the age of 15 have had some experience with psychedelics, 11% with LSD. (source unsure)
  • Mitch Gomez from Dance Safe – more than 50% of the population of the U.S has done illegal compounds at age 15 and up. Psychedelics have taken a big chunk of that number.
  • Cannabis is a great help for football players and traumatic brain injury.
  • “If psychedelics are ever going to be reintegrated meaningfully in society, we are going to need some kind of mentorship.” – Brian
  • Timothy Leary – “You’re born with the right to fly”. If you start driving on LSD, you might lose that right.
  • Find the Others, Mind Manifest Midwest, The Third Wave
    • A collaborative project that allows people to speak in their own words what they are doing in their psychedelic societies.
    • Psychedelic Societies are real, local and create community.
  • MDMA for PTSD will be passed at the Federal level very quickly.
  • Evolutionary Ecology
    • Psilocybin – PhD focused on plant secondary compounds.
    • The mycorrhizae network – “the Earth’s natural internet” – Paul Stamets
  • Climate change
    • Consumption – eating meat and driving cars
    • The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy. Changing people’s mindsets with psychedelics could be an only hope.
    • “Given that psychedelics have reliably induced mystical and/or religious experiences in people throughout time and across a variety of contexts, it seems natural that we should start organizing communities that help unpack and contextualize these experiences.” – Brian
  • The status of our society
    • Why do we have to work 55 hours a week to barely afford a 2 bedroom apartment?
    • Guaranteed minimum income – an experiment in other countries.
    • What does our society look like when it is less stressed?
  • Timothy Leary
    • “Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others…”
    • Helped create the importance of set and setting.
    • Saw the inside of 36 prisons for possession of marijuana.

Link

Mind Manifest Midwest

Find The Others Project

Aware Project

 

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Brian

Brian Pace - Find the Others Project

Brian Pace, M.S. is a scientist by training and psychonaut by inclination. His interest in biology was piqued acutely as a teenager while experimenting with his own neurochemistry. For more than a decade, Brian has worked on agrobiodiversity, food sovereignty, urban cycling, and climate change in the US and Mexico. Brian is the co-founder of Mind Manifest Midwest (facebook.com/mindmanifestmidwest), a Columbus, Ohio based psychedelic society and the instigator of the Find the Others Project (findtheothersproject.org), a global collaboration of the burgeoning psychedelic society movement. Since 2016, he has contributed as a strategist for The Third Wave (thethirdwave.co). At The Ohio State University, he co-created a graduate-level class entitled: Cannabis: Past, present, and future cultivation for fiber, food, and medicine. He spent a year slogging around oil and wastewater pits left by Chevron-Texaco testing mycoremediation techniques in the Ecuadorian Amazon. All pipelines leak. Plant medicine is indigenous technology. Brian completes his Ph.D. in Plant Evolutionary Ecology this semester at OSU.

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Kyle and Joe – The Cost of Spiritual Emergence: Psychedelics, Spirituality and Capitalism


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe dig into and create conversation over an email received about the cost of psychedelics, the facets of capitalism and about feeling isolated after a psychedelic experience.

3 Key Points:

  1. Capitalism in psychedelics is a complex topic and includes factors such as the schooling system, the medical system, monopoly, trade, and other facets that go into the cost of psychedelics.
  2. There are other forms of therapy that don’t have to involve psychedelics or lots of money.
  3. Feeling isolated after an experience is sometimes our own blockage, by refusing to create community because a person hasn’t had the same experience as us. Psychedelics aren’t always needed for a psychedelic experience.

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Navigating Psychedelics

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

Email concern: Some psychedelic experiences seem segregated by a price bracket.
Ketamine Therapy – believed it would help with their depression, but ended up spending a thousand dollars every two weeks.

Joe – curious that ketamine lozenges may be a cheaper option that could help.
Kyle – although the drug itself may be cheap, you’re not just paying for the lozenges, you’re paying for a therapist or a psychiatrist.
Kyle – in America, healing is a privilege. We work hard to pay for health insurance, or even if we are insured through work or family, it gets hard to pay for because of the premiums.
“I would rather pay for taking care of myself, than going out and partying with friends.”
Healing may have to be a choice sadly, you may have to ask yourself “do I want this or do I need this?”
Joe – One treatment of ketamine is beneficial for a short-term intervention in an urgent state
One session of ketamine therapy helps the user understand the situation clearer and can reduce the thoughts of suicide
Kyle – “some of my greatest healing experiences were done through my own work, with myself or with friends”

“How do you feel about the resurgence of spirituality and psychedelics and it’s capitalism?”
Joe – Going from the states to Peru to do ayahuasca to reach spiritualism isn’t the only means of spirituality. There are so many other options than capitalist outlets to find spiritual development.
Kyle – “I want to offer a lot of help, and do free workshops, but need money to survive.”
Joe – Jokingly “You’re three months behind on your rent Terrence!”


A person doesn’t need hundreds of trips to be complete and happy, Aldous Huxley says you need three to four strong trips throughout your life.
“How do we protect the planet, and how do we maintain freedom?”

To talk about Capitalism and psychedelics, we are assuming that something needs to mediate the trade or exchange for therapy. Let’s continue to educate ourselves so that we don’t blame capitalism on the fact that therapy has a cost. It’s a hard conversation to have, it’s a complex topic.
Joe – pro-socialized medicine
$30,000 for a first responder to take an overdose death away
$20-$30 for a Narcan
Let’s prevent and heal more. Capitalism does incentivize doctors and healers.
Kyle – “how can we use these as tools and not toys?”
Medicalization of psychedelics may have a potential tie to capitalism
The difference between doing it legally for an extremely high price, versus paying the market price for a gram of mushrooms (illegally) and doing the work (therapy) on your own.
Joe – Monopoly=capitalism
Kyle – the Education system
Student loan debt can be a half a million dollars to be a doctor or therapist
That debt plays an effect on how much those doctors or therapists charge

“How do you deal with isolationism that certain psychedelic experiences bring forward?”
Kyle – “this has been a huge issue in my life, this resonates with me. After having my near-death experience, I didn’t know to talk to people, how to function in the world. A near-death experience is one of the most psychedelic things. To slowly slip away and ‘die’, and come back to this place and not feel like this is where I belong, how do I exist here? It can lead to isolation. It can be extremely heavy.”
“We’re all experiencing this reality through our own lens, so we have to meet people where they are.”
The reason these experiences can make us feel lonely is that of the lack of community. Kyle believes in not just constantly going into these experiences, but more about the integration of the experiences.
Joe – Tim Leary says “Find the others”. But there are a lot of psychedelic people out there who don’t take psychedelics that can be a part of your ‘community’.
Kyle – it makes sense to feel like you need to connect with someone who has done psychedelics in order for them to understand, but we can connect with other people who may not have had psychedelic experiences.
The psychedelic experience isn’t the only way. We can also experience spiritualism and healing without psychedelics, too.
Kyle – Experience in Jamaica, the Rastas talking about home and family, “if the oil splashes up and burns me, my family isn’t here to help me, but you’re here to help me, and you can help me.”
The people around me are family, they don’t always need to have had experienced the same things as me in order to help me
Joe – group strengthens self
Robert Anton Wilson’s habit – he would order magazine subscriptions and most subscriptions aligned with his interests, and the other half were of subscriptions way outside of his interests, so he wouldn’t develop a bias.

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

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Shane LeMaster – Psychedelics, Journey Work and Sports Performance

Shane LeMaster


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe interviews Shane LeMaster, a therapist and host of the new Podcast, Conversations with the Mind. In this discussion, we cover personal journeying, changing behavioral processes, Jiu Jitsu, and where we are headed as a collective consciousness.

3 Key Points:

  1. Psychedelics can be a helpful tool for personal journey work.
  2. Each type of psychedelic works as its own tool. They are all useful in their own context and should not be compared to each other as better or worse.
  3. Shane has used psychedelic therapy to help rewire past imprinted constructs of his mind to learn new behaviors in his Jiu Jitsu practice and his daily life.

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Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

Using Psychedelics for personal journey work

  • How we can enhance growth using these substances.

Big journey work sessions bring large insights

  • “Recently, I’ve been working on softening my hard edges”
  • Construct – the scared child. Our childhood leaves imprints that effect our behavior as adults.
  • Hyper-masculinity is a result of repressing past issues.

Are there different messages after a journey in ketamine versus peyote?

  • Substances produce a different feeling as if there is an “other” or “entity” that sends the messages where with breathwork it’s more of a self realization
  • Drug chauvanism “my drug is better than your drug”
    • “Is LSD worse than mushrooms for spiritual development? Or breathwork? We can’t say yes or no definitively.” -Joe
    • Stan Grof – “why would you do breathwork if you have LSD?”
    • “There is something special about the group work process in breathwork, that deeper sense of connection is hugely valuable.” -Joe
  • Some substances are better when done alone in some circumstances, and substances used in a community setting as better for different circumstances. We have a choice in which tool
  • “You can’t build a house with just a hammer. If LSD is a hammer and ketamine is a saw, you can’t say a hammer is better than a saw, they are both essential.”

Ketamine in Fort Collins, CO

  • Dr. Scott Shannon

Shane

  • Therapist, making great changes but small changes, looking to make a greater impact through social work, helping people to better themselves.
  • Interest in mindfulness, positivity interventions, helping people see their power to fix their own issues

The changing landscape of how we understand consciousness

  • DMT vape pens
    • Make it more convenient for the consumer
    • Democratizes the experience, knocks down barriers to be able to have a profound experience
  • Podcasts – creating conversation about a shift in consciousness
  • Elon Musk – our intelligence is heightened through proper use of the cell phone
  • Stan Grof – technology of the sacred (ex. Breathwork)
  • Tim Leary – “hedonic engineering” – how to live a maximally more pleasurable life
    • Positive psychology meets wearable technology – developing the steps to the most enjoyable life
  • Tim Ferris twitter feed – “Creation is a better means of self expression than possession, it is through creating not possessing that life is revealed.”
  • “Be a creative force in the universe, it feels so good to create, and bring something to fruition, and share it with everybody, not to possess it.” -Shane

Conversations with the mind – Shane’s podcast

  • “One mind having a conversation with another mind. Two minds interacting, sharing knowledge, sharing distress, sharing solution, and adding the sum of the two parts coming together, and sharing it with the collective mind.” – Shane on the purpose behind his podcast
  • Guests on the show
    • How psychedelics help in jiu jitsu
    • PhD credential people
    • PTSD patients

Advice from Stan Grof

  • 30-60 days without alcohol is needed before using Breathwork for therapy when treating alcoholism

Analogy – default brain behavior

  • like sledding down a hill, we always choose the same route. With psychedelics, it helps us see a new route. You stand up, and for the first time, you look up and take a 360 degree turn and see so many new routes that you have the choice to take.
    • Analogy used to reprocesses trauma, brings new options to think about the experience differently
  • Microdosing helps bring out new patterns of behavior to learn new skills
  • “In wrestling, the last place you want to be is on your back, that’s when you get pinned, that’s when you lose a match. In jiu jitsu, being in your back is a good place to be, because there’s a lot of options from there. So I had to unlearn the fear of being on my back. It’s all about retraining my neural pathways, retraining my thinking.” -Shane

Jiu Jitsu

  • It’s been said, earning a black belt is as much time and effort as earning a PhD
  • The transferable skills of Jiu Jitsu can be used in therapy, breathwork and integrating psychedelic experiences. It’s all consciousness work.

Links

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Shane

Shane LeMasterShane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.

Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado.  Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups.  Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.

He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports.  Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years.  Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.

His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science.  Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.

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Mike – End of the Road – Navigating Psychedelics and Patent Law


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In this episode, Joe Moore interviews Mike from the podcast “End of the Road“. Its a great podcast covering psychedelic and spiritual topics that are probably of interest to you. Mike is an attorney and he joins us to share some insights around patent law in the psychedelic space. Kyle and Joe were even feature on the show a few months back.

Disclaimer – This interview is for informational purposes only, not for obtaining legal advice. “Opinions expressed by me, at my own only, and not my firms.”

3 Key Points:

  1. Patent law is worth understanding and shouldn’t be ignored in our current psychedelic era.
  2. It can be used to help protect inventions and innovations that took time and money to develop.
  3. Patents aren’t all bad. They can help protect the small guy as well and large corporations.

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Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

Patent on Ayahuasca

  • 1986 Boston College Law review article (source) Warren Miller, scientist and entrepreneur obtained a patent on a strain of ayahuasca vine.
  • 400 indigenous tribes challenged the validity of the patent. Controversy over the patent created hostility between Ecuador and US.
  • Patent criteria
  • A patent must be a process, machine, or manufacture or composition of matter. A patent does not depend on whether a composition of matter is living or non-living, but rather that it is altered and is not a naturally occurring substance.
  • Taking a plant from South America, and not altering it should not receive a patent.
  • Organizations owning a genome?
  • Transgenic modification – able to be patented
  • Plant patent – specific category

Psilocybin

  • Compass pathways – applied for a patent for growing psilocybin – “good manufacturing practice” global standard for manufacturing pharmaceuticals, know your dose each time, etc
  • Compass Pathways applied for a British patent called the “Preparation for Psilocybin”
    • FDA requires that you meet certain standards when you test a product for purity.
    • Trying to patent a pure form of psilocybin. “Non naturally occurring”
    • Using the patent as justification to cover the cost for FDA trials.
  • Group of scientists who created a statement on open practice – 4 point manifesto. (Ram Dass supports it) Trying to make it non-capitalistic – so no one can create a monopoly on it.
  • Full rights can bring the risk of unfair pricing moves
    • Martin Shkreli – marked up a life-saving drug by 3000x
    • Previous groups have decades of open sharing. Compass does not have the same origins
    • Scare – Compass marks up psilocybin. Could be unethical things happening within Compass, but not much journalism done here yet.
  • Once a patent is made, harder to make a similar patent.
    • Broad-based patents make it harder to create further patents down the line since they have to be novel or significantly different and precisely new
    • The process Compass is trying to patent is not the only way to produce GMP psilocybin, there are many other ways.
    • May pull a move that gives them special access to administer
  • Paul Stamets – psilocybin patent application
    • Using psilocybin and niacin for neural regeneration – a neural regenerated composition  based upon constituents isolated from or contained within mushroom fruit bodies or psilocybin or the corresponding synthetic molecules combined with niacin
    • Google patents – US PTO 154914503 filing date April 23, 2017, another in 2018
      • Claims – Mushrooms have improved memory, cognition, motor skills, complex computer coding challenges, hearing, sensory, vision, learning, promote neurogenesis. Therapeutic applications of psilocybin.
      • A broad patent that covers a large variety of application for using psilocybin therapeutically, not approved yet.
      • Probably would capitalize on the patent. Keen for data sharing and being public with his work.
      • Previous patent: Pesticide replacement – fungi that infects ants and brings them back to their homes. More effective than pesticide.
      • Good he applied for a patent – it would mean that it wouldn’t block people from accessing it or developing their own
  • Andrew Chadeayne – inventor and patent attorney
    • Has psilocybin patent update blog
    • Applied for patents in the psilocybin space
  • Monopoly law
    • If there is a popular drug used in the market, a drug company wanting to capitalize – it will cover all their bases with a patent
    • Daniel Pinchbeck – theories that could work (Marxist society)
    • Cuba – healthcare model – government funds certain health care practices for the public good/applications that the US would not.
    • A model that Marxists could use to get these products on the market vs capitalist model
    • The basic idea of patents: Inventor – creates a patent to protect the invention, not to dominate the market.
  • International Administration of Ketamine to treat Depression – Yale
    • Method for treating depression
  • University of California – scientists using “compounds for increasing neural plasticity”non-hallucinogenic catalog of psychedelic compounds
  • Novel devices for administration
    • Intranasal or inhalant administration method for THC, ketamine, etc.
  • SYQE – developed method of a delivery subject for Patent Protection
    • Full spectrum whole plant extract – different from a vaporizer
    • Pctil 2015 050676
    • Syqemedical.com
    • Smoking – route of administration dosing precision standard is 30%, their dose delivery is at 70%
  • Tel Aviv Israel – producing the lowest price per gram in the world of cannabis   
    • All cannabis being researched in the country must come from one specific facility – set the US back
  • German patent – synthetic ayahuasca DE201610014603
  • Open source model
    • Common law copyright and trademark protection
    • Laws changed in 2013 – first to file the patent first, gets the invention
      • Important to get patent protection early in the process
      • Provisional, and non-provisional patent. Provisional gives a year grace period to file non-provisional without all of the details of the full application.
    • Infusion pump technology – method of delivery (ex. DMT) controls the level of a substance in the blood for an undefined, extended period of time.
      • Insulin pumps – monitor and deliver
      • Raspberry pie devices – can buy a computer and program it to do specific functions. Ex. automated brewing system with temp controls.
      • DMTx – same computer could be programmed and applied to control the levels of DMT in the bloodstream

Links

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Mike

Exploring the Horizons we never touch, because we are already there….with Michael. Mike is a patent lawyer with a long history in trial law. He has a great podcast that you should check out – End of the Road

 

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Marisa Novy – Art, Psychedelics and Shambhala

Marisa Novy


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In this episode, Joe Moore interviews Marisa Novy, a wonderful psychedelic artist living and working in Breckenridge, Colorado who has been helping Psychedelics Today with some awesome art and more.

3 Key Points:

  1. Harm reduction was top notch at Shambhala but the festival could have done a bit more.
  2. Early psychedelic experiences added substantial depth to her yoga practice and art.
  3. Marisa has helped us at Psychedelics Today a ton and we are very excited to keep working with her.

Show Notes

  • Martian Curiosities – Instagram
  • Shambhala Festival in BC
    • An electronic music festival with different producers coordinating music and art for each stage.
    • No alcohol is allowed at the festival.
    • Almost promoted as a psychedelic-friendly festival.
    • The biggest win for the festival this year – no fentanyl found in any of the drugs tested.
    • Marisa’s favorite part about Shambhala is the people/community.
    • Shambhala provides harm reduction/drug testing services.
      • Drug testing is done by ANKORS.
      • ANKORS also provides drug safety information.
      • Drug testing helps to clean up the scene because people understand what is found in their substances.

  • Drug testing is illegal or not allowed in the United States
  • Marisa did some outreach for Psychedelics Today at Shambhala festival to promote drug safety, harm reduction, and our course Navigating Psychedelics  
  • Marisa’s favorite artists at Shambhala
  • Marisa’s introduction to psychedelics
  • What would it look like if festivals provided integration services to help process the overall festival experience?

Links

Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”Navigating Psychedelics: Introduction To Psychedelics (101)

About Marisa Novy

Marisa Novy

I am Marisa, a 24 year old explorer of consciousness and purpose of life.
I graduated UW-Milwaukee with a BBA in Marketing and International Business with an emphasis in Entrepreneurship. I grew up making art, and for the most part, I am constantly creating. I have my own small creative business for my artwork at MARtianCuriosities on Etsy, and @martiancuriosities on Instagram for more consulting projects. I became interested in Psychedelics after reading some cosmic literature, delving deeper into my yogic practice, and through my search for meaning and enlightenment. Psychedelics have helped my creativity to blossom and to be my truest self.

 

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Emanuel Sferios – Drug Positive – Developing the New Drug Narrative


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today we interview Emanuel Sferios, founder of DanceSafe and host of the new Drug Positive Podcast. The discussion mainly revolves around what “drug positive” means, MDMA, and harm reduction.

3 Key Points:

  1. The history of MDMA is different than we have been taught.
  2. MDMA is quite safe and the harms are very low. Risk reduction is a more appropriate term at times. 
  3. Emanuel is positive that his early drug experiences substantially helped improve his life.

Show Notes

  • There is an largely unknown history of MDMA.
  • Sasha Shulgin apparently was not the first to synthesize it in the modern era.
    • He created a new synthesis method.
  • MDMA was the first designer drug in a sense.
    • MDA became illegal and chemists decided to change the molecule
  • Manuel Noriega of Panama used MDMA at least once and gave permission to some chemists to manufacture in Panama shortly before the US invasion.
  • Harms from MDMA are quite minimal and small.
  • Parents who have lost a child can be natural allies to the drug positive movement.
  • Best practices for drug testing MDMA and Cocaine.
  • It is going to be really hard to convince the public to legalize drugs other than cannabis.
     

    About Emanuel Sferios

Emanuel Sferios is an activist, educator and harm reduction advocate. Founding DanceSafe in 1998 and starting the first laboratory pill analysis program for ecstasy users that same year (now hosted at Ecstasydata.org), Emanuel pioneered MDMA harm reduction services in the United States. His MDMA Neurochemistry Slideshow has been viewed over 30 million times and remains a primary educational resource for physicians, teachers, drug abuse prevention counselors and MDMA users alike. Emanuel resigned from DanceSafe in 2001 and went on to work in other areas of popular education and harm reduction. He has recently come back as a volunteer. Oh! And he’s making a movie.

Links

Drug Positive

Independent – Meet the Man Who Wants your to Him him Legalise MDMA

DanceSafe – Wiki

DanceSafe

MDMA The Movie

 

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Robin Kurland-West – Questions and Challenges in Providing Integration Services


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Introduction

During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Robin Kurland-West, a licensed marriage and family therapist based out of California. Kyle and Robin chat about challenges and other questions in regard to providing psychedelic integration services. Psychedelic integration is a new territory, and there are plenty of questions to still answer and cover.

Show Notes

About Robin Kurland-West

  • She offers integration services through her therapy practice.
  • Robin had questions about how to create an introduction practice and how to follow up.
  • She was licensed in 2010 and graduated from the California Institute of Integral Studies in 2006.
  • About a year ago she decided to do a karma cleanse and began to talk to a friend about psychedelics.
  • Her friend sent her a podcast that spoke to her.
  • She was doing some shadow work and dealing with her addiction experiences.
  • She said a prayer over the psilocybin and was open to what it would show her.
  • A spirit appeared and the forest started sending her messages.
  • It was a female spirit and used two trees to illustrate the inside of her brain.
  • It taught her that her mind was holding onto negative beliefs.
  • She taught her that she needed to let go, that it was “all so absurd.”
  • What has been the difference between experimenting in college vs. doing the work as an adult?
    • In college, it was seen as a party drug.
    • She had a hard time having conversations with people.
    • She doesn’t see it as a party drug anymore, it’s something that you honor.
    • She now views it as a medicine that heals parts that have been cut off.
    • Having had a history of addiction, some people are afraid psychedelics might be addictive.
    • Psychedelics are non-addictive because other drugs are about escaping, and psychedelics are about being fully present.
  • What is integration work for you and how do you approach it?
    • This is new territory for her after having her own experience.
    • She joined a network called the psychedelic support network.
    • Because it’s not yet legal, it’s a bit of a struggle.
    • She offers pre and post ritual services.
    • People meet with her and do a pretty thorough assessment.
    • They set the intention for the experience.
    • Afterward they look at what some of the messages were and how to incorporate it into their daily lives.
  • Do you help with dosage?
    • She focuses more on intention setting because she’s still new at this.
    • She refers people to resources to help with other things.
  • Is there a therapeutic approach you use with people?
    • She uses expressive arts therapy to tap into the unconscious and subconscious.
    • She always uses family systems, there’s usually a root to behavior.
    • She uses CBT and DBT.
    • She uses journaling and narrative therapy.
    • It’s an opportunity to rewrite your story – a new perspective to an old story.
    • She uses mandala work and drawing.
    • She has them stand up and move around.
    • Utilizing movement to integrate is huge.
    • After having her profound experience with psychedelics, she finds it to be a warm blanket she can reach for to remind you that things are different now.
  • What type of challenges have you had providing integration services to people?
    • She wants to know how soon she should see a client after they start on this journey.
    • How many times should she see a client after, and how many times?
    • It could be more individual.
    • She started to do psychotherapy to go deep and heal.
    • It’s possible to put your medical license at risk by providing certain services.
    • She can’t sit with people when they have their experience and has to be clear that it’s a decision that they’re making.
    • She has to detach herself from a lot of it.
    • She likes the idea of immediacy in following up with clients.
    • She sees a client 3-4 times beforehand to make sure they’re healthy enough and set intention.
    • Afterward she wants to see them soon so they can hold onto the gold they discovered in the journey.
  • How do you choose the right psychedelic experience for a person?
    • The idea of doing a diagnosis to find out what will work is tricky.
    • Throw it back on the person to see what they’re looking for.
    • It’s not a scary experience, but you want to make sure you’re with someone who’s trained.
    • There’s a couple that wants to come in and do integration therapy together.
    • She wants to meet with them individually and together beforehand.
    • People are in therapy to discover themselves and they might find something different than they’ve been looking for.
  • How do you approach people who think integration specialists can get them drugs or be a guide during experiences?
    • She says it isn’t about her telling them to use illicit drugs and she doesn’t do drugs with them or hook them up.
    • The difference between integration therapy and a guide:
    • A guide is someone you trust who sits with you.
    • An integration therapist is just pre and post where she’s not involved in the drug.
  • Have you had any clients reach out trying to integrate a really difficult experience?
    • Not yet, but she’s looking forward to it.
    • She would ask questions about what they saw and felt.
    • She would bring in the arts to map it out and they can look at it together.
    • You can have a psychedelic experience without having psychedelics.
  • Is there anything you’re looking forward to with clients?
    • In traditional therapy right now, she’s coming up against blockage in some of her clients.
    • She sees a lot of people being stuck, and that’s the hardest part.
    • She’s excited to see the light turn back on in people’s eyes and see them be healed.
    • She wants to see people be present with themselves and each other so they can have a fuller life.
  • How do you approach therapy and coaching?
    • She just does the psychotherapy, asking questions.
    • She appeals to a clients inner resources.
  • Do you do any online work?
    • She only does in-person work, every once in a while she does a phone session.
    • She works holistically, so people don’t just focus on the mind, also the body and the spirit.
  • Do you get people reaching out from all over the place?
    • Yes, because her name is on the psychedelic support list.
    • She filled out an application and had some correspondence with the organization.
  • What are some of your favorite podcasts and resources?
    • The Psychedelic Salon Podcast

Episode Quotes

  • I don’t see psychedelics as a party drug anymore, it’s something that you honor, a medicine.
  • I like to see my clients soon after their experience so they can hold onto the gold they discovered on their journey.
  • People are in therapy to discover themselves and they might find something different than they’ve been looking for.

Resources Mentioned

So, You Want to Find a Psychedelic Guide – Article
Psychedelics Today Episode with Katherine MacLean
Joe Rogan Experience interviewing Amber Lyon
8 Common Psychedelic Mistakes Course
Erowid Archive
The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide – Risks, Micro-Dosing, Ibogaine, and More

About Robin Kurland-West, LMFT

Robin Kurland-West received her license in 2010. Prior to becoming licensed she has worked in non profit agencies and inpatient recovery centers as clinical director, supervisor and lead therapist. Through this journey she has focused her expertise on trauma and addictions. Currently Robin has a private practice in the Sacramento area and works with individuals, families, couples and groups. Her passion to explore consciousness and the healing potential of psychedelics has been prominent through out and is committed to making a difference with those suffering from PTSD and addictions through the use of plant medicines and psychedelic integration therapy.

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Duli Wilkins – The Adventures of the Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O Shaman


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During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Duli Wilkins, aka the “Beantown Ghetto Shaman” about his work and future plans. In this conversation, Kyle talks to Duli about his work with sacred plant medicines, how he got involved in this type of work, and also explore the topic of people of color and diversity in the psychedelic world.

Show Notes

  • About Duli Wilkins
    • He’s from the Boston area born and raised.
    • He gives credit to his parents for getting him into what he’s into right now.
    • His dad used to play jazz music and met a bunch of famous musicians.
    • He learned that sound and frequency can be used as a tool for healing.
    • He lived between two warring projects.
      • A lot of his friends got into the gang life.
    • He got heavily into Tai Chi and Chi Kung.
    • He became a multi-dimensional healer
    • He had a friend who gave him a mushroom and that’s when the magic begins.
  • How did everything begin for Duli?
    • His empathic abilities heightened more when he used cannabis.
    • He started getting deeper into the teachings of Rastafarians.
    • In the black community, you didn’t see a lot of people using psychedelics.
      • Using a mushroom was very new to him.
    • Duli’s experience with mushrooms?
      • At first he just felt some tingling and checked on his friend looking at the painting.
      • He started to see things happen before they were happening.
      • He was seeing the fabric of reality.
      • He started having out of body experience and heard drumming from the heavens.
    • “What was it like for you to be involved in this work when the people around you aren’t?”
      • Things are changing, more people across the globe are becoming aware of the benefits of teaching plants.
      • A lot of people report seeing ancestors that have passed away.
      • There’s a resistance to psychedelics in the black community because of the history of drugs.
      • It was easy for the government to shut down everyone but their own children.
      • We have to be patient and time will bring things to the surface.
    • Discussion about the pharmaceutical system.
      • It’s great when you have a broken bone, etc.
      • The pharmaceutical establishment is a business and it runs like a business.
      • When we deal with ancestral memory or epigenetics the medical industry can’t touch it.
      • Safety in a teaching plant ceremony is key.
    • Discussion about the dark night of the soul.
      • Work in the shadow is important if you want to become whole.
      • We’re all walking around with trauma.
      • He’s had a lot of past life experiences, even one where his son died very young.
      • It takes a lot of courage to try psychedelics and you have to have a good setting.
    • “Do you see a lot of spiritual bypassing?”
      • Yes, people try to hide behind things.
      • Some people hide behind the psychedelics.
      • Psychedelics and teaching plants are tools, how are you using the tools?
      • When we deal with wealthy people, maybe it’s the lack of struggle to obtain psychedelics.
      • There’s much more to us and as time goes by we’re going to have disclosure.
    • Duli talks about some experiences with extraterrestrials during psychedelic trips.
      • We’re going through cycles and making the same mistakes every time.
    • Last words?
        • Find him on Facebook under @abdukwilkins
        • Find him on YouTube under The Beantown Ghetto Shaman

Sign up for our free online course

 

 

Episode Quotes

  • Something inside me said, I should take the mushroom and that was the gateway to shamanism.
  • Things are changing, more people across the globe are becoming aware of the benefits of teaching plants.
  • We have to have a re-education and awareness around teaching plants.

About Duli Wilkins,  a.k.a Duli Tha Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O Shaman

  

Abdul K. Wilkins a.k.a Duli Tha Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O (Gifted. Hearts. Equal. Towards. Total. Oneness) Shaman is a Boston Native…He grew up in the Inner City of Roxbury where he overcame an environment of gang street violence, neighborhood drug abuse, and police brutality! Duli was influenced at a young age by both of his parents in the interest of spirituality, mysticism, natural healing etc.

While attending College at Northeastern University he had a very mystical experience with psilocybin mushrooms and has been using mushrooms and other psychedelics as a tool for healing and conscious awareness ever since! He is a father of 2 and does massage therapy and natural healings in his community!

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Robert Forte – The Hidden History of Psychedelics

The Hidden History of Psychedelics


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Kyle and Joe interview Robert Forte who has been around the psychedelic world for decades as a writer, facilitator and researcher. He has known or has worked with most of the biggest names in psychedelic history including Dr. Stanislav Grof and Timothy Leary among others.

The interview covers a lot of ground and will likely ruffle some feathers.

Robert has extensively studied the history of psychedelics and has drawn some conclusions about the origins of the field.

Psychedelics as Weapons

From the early days, scientists have been working with psychedelics to weaponize them. From project artichoke to MK Ultra, the US government and many foreign governments have spent a tremendous amount of effort researching these powerful compounds and likely still are.

Robert states that various governments particularly the United States government have groups that are using drugs to derange the public to make it easier for these groups to meet their desired outcomes – less democracy, increased plutocratic power, etc. Think Brave New World and Brave New World Revisitied.

Deranged from Miriam Webster:
1: mentally unsound : crazy
2: disturbed or disordered in function, structure, or condition
  • My leg was propped up on a library chair at the time, as it was too deranged to bend.
    3: wildly odd or eccentric

He makes a compelling argument, but we want you the listener and reader to “Think for Yourself and Question Authority”. That was a Leary line that we think is valuablein situations like this. Read books on the subject, question the purpose behind them, think critically and see where you want to go with it.

After recording this interview Joe Moore read the amazing and comprehensive 2016 history The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government. The book filled in some gaps for me (Joe) but didn’t really change my mind much on the topic of psychedelics specifically.

Please enjoy the episode and if you want to discuss it, please join us at our facebook group here.

Links & Show Notes

Timothy leary outside looking in

 About Robert Forte

Robert Forte

James Fadiman calls Robert Forte, “a major but not well known hero of the psychedelic movement.”  A scholar, editor, publisher, professor, researcher of the subject for over 3 decades, Forte has come to some disturbing realizations about the psychedelic renaissance that he helped to start.  Huston Smith called his first book, Entheogens and the Future of Religion, “the best single inquiry into the religious significance of chemically occasioned mystical experience that has yet appeared.” Forte was introduced to psychedelics in 1980 by Frank Barron, who initiated Timothy Leary and started the Harvard Psilocybin Project with him. From the University of California Forte was invited to Esalen to study with Stanislav Grof, before going to the University of Chicago to study the history and psychology of religion under Mircea Eliade. Over the years Forte has worked closely with many of the most prominent leaders of the psychedelic movement, including R. G. Wasson, Albert Hofmann, Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner, Alexander Shulgin, Claudio Naranjo, and many others. His early MDMA research in 1981-85 turned on 100s of people to this new medicine. Though this project led to the creation of MAPS, Forte is a vocal critic of MAPS government collusion and deceptive policies. His second book is a rounded view of Timothy Leary, Outside Looking In:  Appreciations, Castigations, Reminiscences.  He first experienced ayahuasca in 1988, and conducted ayahuasca research with cancer patients in Peru, yet he is now suspicious of the globalizing of ayahuasca as an form of “spiritual colonialism.”   He is a enthusiastic supporter of conscious, independent psychedelic healing and recreation, and an equally fierce opponent of  psychedelics for mind control, profiteering, and social engineering by political and economic elites.

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Richard Grossman PhD – Exploring Ayahuasca, Acupuncture and Healing


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During this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle Buller interviews Dr. Richard Grossman, an ayahuasca ceremony facilitator and expert with a background in healing and acupuncture.

Episode Quotes

  • I find mystical poetry to be an amazing aid in ceremony work.
  • Is it the vision or the emotion that you feel and then the vision comes?
  • In my work, the psychedelic experience is about going beyond the visionary state.
  • The core of all creation is in the heart and breath.

 

Show Notes

  • About Dr. Richard Grossman
    • Has a long background in healing.
    • He used to be a macrobiotic chef.
    • Primeval meditations and licensed acupuncturist.
    • Works with ayahuasca and San Pedro.
  • How did Richard get involved in ayahuasca?
    • A friend brought some up from Peru and his life changed in one night.
    • It took him years as an acupuncturist learning more about healing.
    • He’s been doing this for about thirty years.
  • Do you integrate your acupuncture practice into ceremony?
    • Not so much with ayahuasca – that’s done traditionally.
    • He had a lot of experience with the Shipibo Tradition.
    • With the San Pedro method, the body change happens in one day.
  • Opinions on psychedelic visions.
    • Many people want them and they’re a distraction.
    • The real thing is that the source of everything is within.
    • If a person can experience that for an instant, their life changes.
    • There are a lot of things happening on subtle levels.
    • The psychonaut and healing processes are quite different.
  • What are some examples of ideas you’ve seen in the psychedelic community?
    • People trying to draw in gods and goddesses.
    • You need to see how deep a human being can go, it’s an infinite journey.
  • What is it like to go deeper and deeper?
    • If you can imagine a series of curtains parting over and over and over again.
    • You begin to see places of illusion.
    • During one of his trips, he visualized himself in a Nazi concentration camp.
      • A voice told him to trust and forgive.
      • He began to question what forgiveness and trust mean.
    • Some people are seeking spirituality and not really healing within.
      • Ayahuasca tourism is a fairly good thing, rather than people coming and ruining the jungle.
    • How would you define a healing process?
      • It’s a complex subject, he likes the idea of a series of concentric circles.
    • Do you work with a person’s energy?
      • People get very relaxed.
      • If there is someone who can’t get relax he calms them with acupuncture.
    • Do you think intoxicants affects the chi?
      • San Pedro or ayahuasca are not considered intoxicants.
      • He sees that ayahuasca is only good for the body.
      • Psilocybin has a rough effect on the liver.
      • The tannins in ayahuasca are valuable and bind toxins in the body.
    • Do you have to worry about any cardiovascular problems?
      • It is a stimulant so he screens people before doing the ceremony.
      • Beauty is a healing process, beauty heals.
    • Is there anything you’re excited about in the psychedelic world?
      • When the community comes together to heal it’s powerful.
      • We’re all going to a place of more love, peace, joy, and healing.
      • What’s the outcome of thousands of people experiencing love and joy?
    • What’s the ayahuasca ceremony structure?
      • Constant music, keeping things from going totally wonky.
      • There’s a point in the ceremony that it could go in either direction:
        • Total group insanity or total group healing.
      • Iowaska ceremonies can be dangerous.
        • It’s something to be respected with its own spirit.
      • You must hold close to the traditions of generations.
      • There’s always a point during the ceremony where he feels it’s the most important and beautiful place he’s ever been.
      • Drama’s not necessary, our culture wants the drama.
      • We need to outgrow externalizing the blame.
      • Life in our heart is meant to be enjoyed.
      • Suffering to heal just doesn’t work.
    • Culture seems to dwell on suffering, is that conditioning?
      • The worst thing a human can possibly do is feeling guilty.
        • “Guilt can’t fly and God wants you to fly.”
      • The nature of reality is joy and love.
      • You need to be willing to let go of the things that don’t work.
      • Psychedelics can be used as a guiding light.
    • Any final advice, events?
      • Find him on his website or on Facebook.
      • Heartfeather.com – Dr. Richard Grossman’s website.
      • Don’t stop, just keep going.

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About Richard Grossman, L.AC., O.M.D., Ph.D.

   

Richard Grossman studied Oriental Medicine at the California Acupuncture College in Los Angeles and received his post-graduate acupuncture training in Beijing, in a course sponsored by the World Health Organization and attended by physicians from around the world. He earned a Masters in Acupuncture, a Doctor of Oriental Medicine degree, a Ph.D. in Oriental Medicine, a Diplomat in Acupuncture, a Diplomat of Pain Management, and a Diplomat in Acupuncture Orthopedics.

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Exploring Race-Based Traumatic Stress and MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy – Dr. Monnica Williams and Dr. Will Siu


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During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your hosts Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Dr. Monnica Williams from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Will Siu a psychiatrist in private practice based in Manhattan,  and a therapist on MAPS’s MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD clinical trials at the University of Connecticut. They join us to discuss race-based trauma, people of color in psychedelics, and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

Show Notes

About Dr. Will Siu

  • He’s a psychiatrist and therapist on the MDMA for PTSD clinical trials with the supervision of Dr. Monnica Williams.
  • Based in NYC and has a private practice.
  • Does some work in emergency psychiatry at a local hospital.

About Dr. Monnica Williams

  • Associate professor at the University of Connecticut.
  • Does graduate teaching and multicultural psychology and research in the health center.
  • Currently doing a study on MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD.
  •  What is race-based trauma?
    • There had been some studies previously.
    • When people become traumatized by experiences of racism, oppression, marginalization based on their perceived identity.
    • Often because of ongoing experiences, like microaggressions
    • Eventually, people have so many of these experiences that they start to have symptoms of PTSD.
    • People get so distressed and afraid that they act in a way that might harm them.
    • You have to think about trauma in a non-single event way.
  • Exploring the topic epigenetics.
    • Trauma has been passed down from generation to generation.
    • Layer epigenetics on top of what’s currently going on and trauma is understandable.
  • How has recruiting been going for the MDMA study?
    • It’s challenging, they’re not drawing from the same population the other sites are.
    • They’re creating a culturally safe, welcoming environment for people of color.
    • There is fear and misinformation that requires them to do a lot of education on the front end.
    • Research abuses haven’t stopped, they’re still continuing today.
    • Psychedelic drugs are almost exclusively used by white people.
  • Are there any big problems you’re trying to tackle now in prepping the study?
    • Traditionally there has been no compensation for study participants, but it’s needed for this study.
    • Another layer is paying via direct deposit vs. cash and getting the university on board.
    • How do you send someone back into the trauma you’re trying to heal.
  • How do you support people in the study?
    • Support them as much as possible during the study.
    • Continue to follow-up with people after the treatment is over.
  • There is a lack of people of color in the therapy field, especially MAPS.
    • Often people of color don’t have a good experience with white therapists.
  • Why do you think there aren’t very many people of color in psychedelics?
    • People of color haven’t had the same advantages to become therapists.
      • It’s not safe to talk about substances when your license is on the line.
    • Culturally, psychedelics haven’t played as big of a role with people of color.
  • What does an ideal training model look like for you?
    • Watching the videos of people getting well was a big game changer.
    • The training needs a fuller understanding of what people from other ethnic and cultural groups need.
    • Monica is altering the training to be more relatable.
  • Talk about enrollment.
    • They have people at all different stages right now.
    • They have about 18 people total who have gone through the stages.
    • They still have to follow the guidelines of an indexed trauma to be accepted.
  • How big is your team right now?
    • Three therapist pair teams.
    • A few other people who assist in various ways.
    • Several people are doing double-duty.
  • How can the psychedelic community be more inclusive of people of color?
    • Make some close friends who are not white.
  • Do you have any fantasy projects you’d like to see play out?
    • Start a master’s program with a specialty track in minority mental health and psychedelic therapy.
    • All scholarships for people of color.
  • Any advice you’d give to a young person or professional?
    • There’s a lot of work to be done and we need enthusiastic minds.
    • Change won’t happen overnight or be easy, but it’s worth it.
    • Be involved in the community

Episode Quotes

The psychedelic community is a very, very white community – most people of color haven’t had an experience with psychedelics.

Ultimately, psychedelics and psychotherapy will be an accepted, licensed form of treatment.

About Monnica Williams

  

Monnica Williams, Ph.D. is a board-certified, licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in cognitive-behavioral therapies. She is an Associate Professor in the Department of Psychological Sciences at the University of Connecticut, and Director of the Laboratory for Culture and Mental Health Disparities. She is also the Clinical Director of the Behavioral Wellness Clinic, LLC in Mansfield, Connecticut, and she has founded clinics in Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania.

Will Siu, MD, DPhil

I grew up in southern California, where I completed college at UC Irvine and medical school at UCLA. Midway through medical school, I pursued research interests at the National Institutes of Health in Washington, DC and ultimately completed a doctoral degree at the University of Oxford. After finishing medical school I moved to Boston to complete my psychiatry residency at the Massachusetts General and McLean Hospitals, after which I continued to work for two years while faculty at Harvard Medical School. I moved to New York City in 2017 where in addition to having a private practice, I am a therapist on clinical trials using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to treat PTSD.

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Daniel Greig – Measuring Wisdom, Mindfulness, and More in Psychedelic Research

Daniel Greig - Toronto


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In this episode of Psychedelics, Kyle and Joe talk with Daniel Greig. Daniel is a student at the University of Toronto and psychedelic community organizer working with CSSDP and the Toronto Psychedelic Society.

We go all over the map but some notable things discussed in this episode include:

  • Measuring wisdom
  • Mindfulness
  • The promise of psychedelics
  • Future research opportunities
  • How friendly the University of Toronto is to psychedelic research
  • Interesting philosophical overlaps with psychedelics and occultism
  • and much more!!

Show Notes:

  • How did you get involved in researching psychedelics?
    • He never had to hide or be discreet about his research interests.
    • People are actually interested in his research work.
    • Canada just legalized marijuana countrywide.
    • He started experimenting with psychedelics when he was around 18.
    • He was able to feel positive emotions again after psychedelics.
  • Are there any recent studies that have you excited?
    • There was a publication in 2017 that looks at the role of mental imagery under the influence of LSD.
    • Daniel is interested in “what is the function of the imagination.”
    • What you get on LSD is similar to what happens during REM dreaming.
    • We’re not very in touch with our imaginative experiences.
  • How are you viewing mystical experiences?
    • Mental imagery is just reverse perception.
    • Mental imagery begins in higher processes and sends information down.
    • We share the faculty and functions of imagery with other animals.
  • How can you engage in some of this mental imagery?
    • There’s a process called active imagination.
    • Practicing active imagination helps you make the most of imagistic experiences.
    • It can be helpful to have someone else guide you through the images.
    • The most important thing is – is it effective?
  • Do you think what’s happening on the physiological level in the mind is a therapeutic part of psychedelics or imaginative?
    • It’s different for everybody.
    • For people with depression, it’s important to get the physiological tuned up.
    • For others, it’s the imagination that unlocks other things.
    • The developmental line we should all be orienting ourselves toward is wisdom.
  • The relationship between rationality in psychedelics.
    • You have to ask is psychedelics make you more rational?
    • Mindfulness can be seen as a form of rationality that makes you open to information.
    • Daniel talks about the computational mind, the algorithmic mind, and the reflective mind.
    • Authoritarianism is related to people’s fear.
  • Can psychedelics promote irrational thinking?
    • Yes, it’s one of the dark sides of the unitive experience.
    • There’s the feeling that you really know what’s true, but you can’t really articulate it.
    • Don’t try to annihilate yourself so nature can flow through you, elevate yourself.
  • How can people get involved?
    • Follow your heart and don’t disguise what you want to do.
    • Be enthusiastic and also correct.
    • Try to emphasize academic rigor.

Episode Quotes

We’re very much detached from our own traditions here in the west.

Just imagining practicing something can have just as much of an effect of your performance than actually practicing it.

You have to bring your insights back into the community to be an effective member of society.

There’s a strong relationship between wisdom and psychedelics.
Without intervention, life will tend toward suffering.

Links

Image result for ken wilber lines of development

About Daniel Greig

Daniel is a student of Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto. His focus is on mysticism, magic and the psychedelic experience through the lens of psychology and neuroscience. Daniel also works with the Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy (CSSDP). He has also spoken at a number of conferences and educational events in Toronto on the subject of psychedelics and philosophy.

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Kyle and Joe – Intro to Transpersonal Psychology

Psychedelic Integration Consulting with Kyle Buller and Joe Moore from Psychedelics Today


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe provide a basic introduction to the field of Transpersonal Psychology and a brief overview of Stanislav Grof’s theories and work, including the Basic Perinatal Matrices.

What is Transpersonal Psychology?

The following excerpt is taken from Kyle’s undergraduate capstone project paper, “The Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences.”

The word transpersonal  can be defined as “beyond one’s self or ego.” The catalyst for the re-emergence of this field was fueled by heady days of the 1960’s which included social change, self-exploration, and a radical shift in consciousness.

What exactly is the field of transpersonal psychology and psychiatry that was developed out of the events of the late 1960s? The Textbook of Transpersonal Psychiatry and Psychology defines these terms as follows:

Transpersonal psychiatry, therefore, is psychiatry that seeks to foster development, correct developmental arrests, and heal traumas at all levels of development, including transpersonal levels. It extends the standard biopsychosocial model of psychiatry to a biopsychosocial-spiritual one in which the later stages of human development are concerned with development beyond, or transcendent of, the individual….Transpersonal psychiatry and psychology address that universal aspect of human consciousness that is transpersonal experience and do not propound the belief of any one religion. (Scotton, 1996, p. 4-5)

Ultimately, transpersonal psychology allows the ability to view different cultural perspectives about reality. This can be achieved by observing and understanding various cultural beliefs as being a valid representation of that specific culture’s known reality (Scotton, 1996).

Transpersonal psychiatry allows not only that other vantage points (other societies) construct equally valid realities, but also that reality can be constructed in more positive directions with adequate techniques and personal development. (Scotton, 1996, p. 6)

The word transpersonal was first coined and used by William James in a lecture in 1905 (Chinen, 1996). During the mid-1960s a group of humanistic psychologists got together on behalf of Anthony Sutich, a pioneer in the field of transpersonal psychology, and the founding editor of the Journal of Humanistic Psychology. The meetings were held at Sutich’s home in California and consisted of topics that were of concern and dealt with issues that were known as transhumanistic, meaning beyond humanistic psychology (Chinen, 1996). Abraham Maslow was one of the main guiding participants for these meetings, and also a pioneer at the time for his theory of peak experiences. Peak experiences dealt with experiences that an individual might have that brings a sense of clarity or awakening to the person’s life. Stanislav Grof suggested the use of the term transpersonal at one of the meetings with Sutich, Maslow and the Austrian psychiatrist, Victor Frankl, for the newly emerging field of psychology soon to be known as the fourth force, or transpersonal psychology (Chinen, 1996). The meetings at Sutich’s house finally led to the announcement of the new field of transpersonal psychology in 1968, which separated itself from the humanistic approach of psychology (Chinen, 1996). The purpose of this new branch of psychology was to explore non-ordinary states of consciousness and spirituality.

Sutich is held accountable for the following original mission statement that is in the first issue of the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology:

The Journal of Transpersonal Psychology is concerned with the publication of theoretical and applied research, original contributions, empirical papers, articles and studies in meta-needs, ultimate values, unitive consciousness, peak experience, ecstasy, mystical experience, B-values, essence, bliss, awe, wonder, self-actualization, ultimate meaning, transcendence of the self, spirit, sacralization of everyday life, oneness, cosmic awareness, cosmic play, individual and species wide synergy, maximal interpersonal encounter, transcendental phenomena; maximal sensory awareness, responsiveness and expression; and related concepts, experiences and activities. As a statement of purpose, this formulation is to be understood as subject to optional individual or group interpretations, either wholly or in part, with regard to the acceptance of its content as essentially naturalistic, theistic, supernaturalistic, or any other designated classification. (Chinen, 1996, p. 10-11)

Basically, there are three points to this mission statement. The first is to have a focus on concerning issues that deal with experiences that are traditionally classified as mystical or religious. Second, there must be emphasizes on the use of empirical and scientific studies to help understand said experiences. And third, they seek to hold and suspend any beliefs regarding whether said experiences or phenomena are to be classified or dismissed as supernatural or not (Chinen, 1996).

References:

Chinen, A. B. (1996). The emergence of transpersonal psychiatry. In B. W. Scotton, A. B. Chinen, & J. R. Battista (Eds.), Textbook of transpersonal psychiatry and psychology (pp. 9-18). New York, NY, US: Basic Books.

Scotton, Bruce. (1996). Introduction and definition of transpersonal psychiatry. Scotton, Bruce W., & Chinen, Allen B., & Battista, John R. (Eds.), Textbook of transpersonal psychiatry and psychology (pp. 3-18). New York, NY: Basic Books.

Links and Resources

Books Mentioned (These links are Amazon Affiliate links. Psychedelics Today receives a small commission at no charge to you)

Other Resources

 

What is Breathwork?

Lenny Gibson – A brief history of psychedelics in the Western world

 

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Dr Ben Malcolm – Ibogaine for Opiate Addiction Research Update


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Dr. Benjamin Malcolm, professor of pharmacy at the Western University School of Pharmacy. The discussion revolves around ibogaine, alkaloids, and addiction therapy solutions.

3 Key Points:

  1. Opioid addiction and death related to overdose is a public health epidemic in the United States
  2. Addiction may be rooted in loneliness, boredom, lack of recreation, trauma, pain or disconnection
  3. Ibogaine is able to reduce physical symptoms and cravings of opioid withdrawal and usually provides the user with insight into why they developed an addiction.

Show Notes

  • Dr. Benjamin Malcolm discusses psychedelic alkaloids that have the potential to treat addictions.

  • When conducting research with human subjects, an Institutional Review Board (IRB) should review the project proposal to ensure the study is ethical

  • There are risks involved in taking in ibogaine that can be used to treat addiction with deaths due to cardiac arrhythmias reported

  • In the United States, opioid overdose claims over 100 lives every day

  • Ibogaine is illicit in the US and unregulated in other parts of the world

  • Psychedelics that bind to 5HT2B receptors could cause a thickening of the heart valve if taken on a chronic basis, psychedelics taken intermittently are not likely to have a significant effect

  • Many newer synthetic psychedelics have not been studied in animals or humans, leading to the potential for unknown adverse reactions

  • Internet surveys about psychedelics usually have a selection bias due to those enthusiastic about the subject to fill out the survey while those that had negative experience may not fill it out or even access websites or forums where surveys are distributed

  • Mescaline is a classic psychedelic (found in San Pedro or Peyote cactus) with much anecdotal evidence of benefit that has not been the featured in any well designed human research

  • If psychedelics become approved drugs for medical use then managing transitions between traditional pharmaceutical modalities and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapies will be required and may be an important area of pharmacist involvement in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapies

  • Dr. Benjamin Malcolm can be reached through his website spiritpharmacist.com

     

    About Benjamin Malcolm, PharmD, MPH

   

Professionally, I teach psychopharmacology and clinical psychiatric pharmacy, practice as a clinical specialist in psychiatric pharmacy, and perform research on psychoactive drugs.

On a more personal note, I’m a lover of nature, exercise, music, being, and consciousness. I’m passionate about cognitive liberty, self-realization, and psychedelic drugs.

I envision a society in which access to psychedelic drugs in a variety of safe and supported settings is available for purposes of psychospiritual well-being, personal development, ceremonial sacraments, and treatment of mental illness.

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Alyssa Gursky – Transpersonal Art and Ketamine Therapies


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Introduction

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Kyle Buller interviews Alyssa Gursky, a Masters student at Naropa University with a focus in mental health counseling and transpersonal art therapy. Their discussion dives into the intersection between art therapy, transpersonal art, and psychedelics. Ketamine, symbols, and meaning are also areas of this interview.

3 Key Points:

  1. Alyssa Gursky has been working with the MDMA research In Boulder, Colorado and now in Fort Collins for the last three years as a night attendant.
  2. Creating art is a gift from our unconscious, to be able to see what is happening within ourselves.
  3. There is art in therapy and there is art as therapy.

Show Notes

  • Alyssa Gursky has been involved with the MDMA research In Boulder, Colorado and now in Fort Collins for the last three years as a night attendant.
  • Making art is one of the most intimate ways to be with yourself.
  • Alyssa is approaching her 20th ketamine session. Each session typically is two hours long.
  • So much of art therapy is getting out of your own way.
  • Alejandro Jodorowsky practices psychotherapy in France, and doesn’t charge, and wrote a book called Psychomagic.
  • To be a licensed professional councilor LPC in Colorado touch isn’t allowed.
  • Communication and consent is import to psychedelic therapy.
  • MDMA psychotherapy can initiate healing on a deep level.
  • Race-based trauma psychotherapy is underway.
  • Art can make people feel deeply about experiences outside of their own.

Resources

About Alyssa Gursky

   

Alyssa Gursky is a master’s level candidate in Transpersonal Art Therapy. She currently is subcontracted by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) on their study using MDMA for treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) on their Boulder and Fort Collins sites. She’s incredibly passionate about the healing potential of the creative process and the body’s innate wisdom. She loves science fiction, anything by Alejandro Jodorowsky, and petting all of the dogs.

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Matthew Pallamary – Exploring Ayahuasca Shamanism


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Introduction

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Matt Pallamary, and have a discussion with him about his writing, research, and ayahuasca experiences. He also shares his concerns about self-proclaimed gurus and some issues that have been emerging because of the popularity of ayahuasca.

3 Key Points:

  1. Science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a mentor of Matt Pallamary.
  2. There are pros and cons to ayahuasca shamanism in Peru.
  3. The more in touch with the natural world you are the more balanced you are.

Show Notes

  • Matt Pallamary was part of the early psychedelics podcast scene.
  • Matt grew up in Dorchester near Boston, and he began early experiences with sniffing glue, weed, and getting acid from a chemist from M.I.T..
  • He has almost 20 years experience with ayahuasca.
  • Too many people have a couple of ayahuasca experiences and claim to be a guru.
  • Famed science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a mentor of Matt Pallamary.
  • Everything is energy—the whole universe exists between our eyes.
  • Matt labels shamans as the first storytellers, the first musicians, the first performers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and first performers.
  • Being in touch with the natural world makes a person more balanced.
  • The boundaries between your conscious and subconscious are blurred, overlapping your visions, dreams, and waking life.
  • When going through an ayahuasca experience, you have to be in a safe place where you can be vulnerable and around people you can trust.
  • For ayahuasca experiences, be sure to get references from people that have successfully worked with a group.

Resources Mentioned:

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCKedqiAQ7g]

About Author

   

Author, Editor, and Shamanic Explorer Matthew J. Pallamary is an award winning writer, musician, and sound healer who has been studying shamanism all of his life. He incorporates shamanic practices into his daily life as well as into his writing and teaching. He has over a dozen books in print that cover several genres, many of which have been translated into foreign languages.

His book on writing, Phantastic Fiction: A Shamanic Approach to Story took First Place in the International Book Awards Writing and Editing Category, and his popular Phantastic Fiction Workshop has been a staple of the Santa Barbara Writers Conference and the Southern California Writer’s Conference for over twenty five years. He has also lectured about writing and shamanism at numerous venues throughout the United States.

Matt has spent extended time in the jungles, mountains, and deserts of North, Central, and South America pursuing his studies of shamanism and ancient cultures. Through his research into both the written word and the ancient beliefs of shamanism, he has uncovered the heart of what a story really is and integrated it into core dramatic concepts that also have their basis in shamanism.

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Treating Social Anxiety in Adults with Autism with MDMA and LSD – Voices in the Dark


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Caution!!

A few important notes. This is an episode of an individual experimenting with powerful drugs to see if he can get any sort of relief from autism. In this case, it appears to have been successful. That said, this came with a substantial amount of risks, and people need to be aware. Please read the below bullets so you understand. 

  • Autism is not what is treated. The thing being treated would be a symptom like social anxiety.
  • “The field of autism science includes a long and shameful history of quack treatments and parents taking desperate and harmful measures to “fix” their children. Autism is a spectrum of congenital and neurocognitive variants, and there are no published research data in support of any compound that can influence its course.” Alicia Danforth, PhD
  • Please do not administer these drugs to children with autism.
  • There are only two researchers investigating where MDMA and autism meet – Alicia Danforth PhD and Dr. Charlie Grob. A scientific paper will likely be available on this in the next few months. Expect to see more here. 
  • These drugs have not been shown to cure or treat autism, but in some cases, just like with neuro-typical individuals, some have seen meaningful changes. 
  • Even if changes are noticed the person is still autistic no matter how many high doses of psychedelics they take.
  • Obtaining pure drugs is very difficult if not impossible in black markets.
    • Verifying purity will require the resources of mass spectrometry from organizations offering these services like Energy Control or Ecstasy Data
    • Providing unsafe, dirty or compromised drugs to people can cause serious harm or death.
  • If you are planning to use MDMA to alleviate some suffering on your own, please wait or don’t.
  • Do substantial research and have skilled people available to help. 

Thanks to Alicia Danforth for helping us understand the nuance’s in this area.

..autism is a genetically determined cognitive variant. It’s pervasive, and it affects the whole person, not just the brain. No chemical compound has been shown to treat, cure, or alter the course of autism. However, for some people, substances like MDMA can help them manage symptoms such as anxiety, social anxiety, and trauma effects. – Alicia Danforth, Ph.D

Introduction

Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Jon and Dre of the Voices in the Dark podcast out of England. The discussion addresses treating symptoms of autism with MDMA and LSD, what types of doses were used, and how to in part do it safely. Note there are always risks with any kind of drug. Learn the basics over at our Navigating Psychedelics course.  

3 Key Points:

  1. A lot of autism is sensory overload. As far as emotions are concerned, “we “see potentially too many things in other people’s faces.” – Dre
  2. A good range for MDMA dosages is between 100mg and not going over  200mg.
  3. 125 micrograms per drop of liquid LSD, and not going above 250 micrograms is recommended.

Show Notes

      • Jon’s first psychedelic experience shifted his academic career path and helped him to deal with depression.
      • Dre first tried MDMA as a first step and it unlocked emotional empathy.
      • Sensory overload is a lot of autism according to Dre.
      • Jon’s experiences with MDMA made him feel like himself without the fear and the worry.
      • MDMA and LSD at the same time didn’t feel as emotional when combined to Jon.
      • 125 micrograms per drop of liquid LSD, and not going above 250 micrograms is recommended.
      • Democratising psychedelic therapy is where Joe would like to see the industry go.
      • Jon is against the fetishizing of any particular concept of belief system in its totality.
      • Jon is excited that he is starting to see more types of research on LSD/MDMA and autism.
      • Dre’s experiences have shifted his autism by feeling that he has a foot in both worlds to know how living without it feels in his mind.

Resources Mentioned:

Additional Resources

 

About Voices in the Dark

        

LEARNING HOW TO HUMAN

At Voices in the Dark, we bring you powerful, mind- and soul-expanding conversations about real life psychology, philosophy, psychedelics, spirituality, social dynamics and much more.

We’re a podcast, a blog, and a community of likeminded individuals who want to become the best versions of themselves. We’re dedicated to never stop Learning How To Human.

Our mission is to entertain, provoke, inform, and make you question everything you think you know.

DRE

A disturbingly quick study in most fields, Dre’s autism made learning people more of a challenge. The works of Robert Greene shone a light on the otherwise deeply confusing world of other people’s psyches, transforming the world around him into something which finally made sense.

JON

After spending far too many years in educational institutions, Jon got a PhD in History but is now finally learning something about the real world and the people in it. He always felt that science and scholarship needed more dick jokes and is on a mission to redress that balance. He writes, talks, travels, sings, and has a problematic relationship with cake and coffee.

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Psychedelic Professionalism: Exploring Ethics, Boundaries, Self-Care, and More


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe discuss professionalism in the psychedelic field. It has been brought to our attention that there are a number of people out there doing unprofessional things. As this field continues to develop and grow, it is important to be aware of what professionalism could look like, what self care, ethics, and boundaries look like in this world that we are all actively developing.

This episode is about raising the topic of professionalism in a new growing field rather than providing answers. We all need to be self-reflective in our development and question whether or not harm is being done by certain practices.

Some concerns were brought to attention via the Psilly Rabbits blog, Exploring Psychedelics 2018: Reviewing Zealotry and Apologetics within the Field of Psychedelic. If you want to listen to the episode where Cody discusses this blog more in-depth, check out the Psychedelic Zealotry episode.

Have any thoughts, comments, or feedback? Leave them below or send us an email!

In light of festival season, we are offering a $30 off coupon for our online store with every purchase of our course,  Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care and Integration throughout the month of June. If you are a student, please email us with your university email address to receive a special discount!

Joe and Kyle will also be offering some special live online course options. If you want to stay up-to-date about these offerings, sign up for our email list.

If you’re interested in learning more about DMTx, you can enroll in the DMTx 4-week Psychonaut Training. Proceeds go towards the DMTx project.

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Mike Branc – Mikeadelic, Ayahuasca and Coming Back to America

Mike Branc


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In this 88th episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Mike Brancatelli of the Mikeadelic podcast. After returning from a three-month Amazonian ayahuasca sojourn, Mikeadelic himself shares information about this extraordinary experience, how he has gotten involved in psychedelics and his journey.

Show Notes:
● Mike Brancatelli spent his three-month trip in Peru at the Temple of the Way of Lights with their residency program in the heart of the Amazon jungle during an ayahuasca retreat.
● Mike was previously doing stand-up comedy in New York City with his friend Dave Smith called “Part of the Problem.”
● Mikeadelic the podcast began in the spring of 2016.
● Drinking ayahuasca will produce an effect on you, especially when coupled with ceremony and healing songs.
● During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
● He feels passionate about ending the war on drugs and the prison industrial complex.
● You can remain filled with passion and compassion without being emotionally attached. Sit with your feelings without letting them control how you respond.
● The information overload of media drowns your spirit.
● A morning routine with meditation is helpful to get centered and focused for the rest of the day.
● The Netflix TV series “Wild Wild Country” is a true story about a controversial cult leader claiming to enlighten people.
● “Enlightenment Now” is a book about the enlightenment philosophy “science, reason and humanism”. It is a contemporary take on that philosophy – you could call Pinker’s take a Modern Enlightenment philosophy. Steven Pinker wrote the book. Joe Moore, suggests it and found out about it from the Bill Gates’s.
● “The Internet of Money” Volume 1 and Volume 2 by Andreas M. Antonopoulos is another interesting read suggested by Joe Moore.
● Before ayahuasca use, listen to your heart to understand why you want to try it.

3 Key Points:
1. During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
2. It is incredibly brave to be willing to confront your stress and be willing to stare into your soul and slay your demons.
3. Remain passionate, compassionate, and acknowledge the problems in the world, but don’t stay emotionally attached to them. Become mindful of how you respond.

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Britta Love – Sex, Psychedelics, Privilege and Justice

Britta Love


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Joe Moore interviews Britta Love, a passionate writer and sex educator based in New York City. Britta shares about the overlap of sexuality and psychedelics, her field of consciousness and embodiment studies, and dealing with the psychedelic patriarchy. She shares her desires to diversity the field and make supporters he safe and supported.

Quotes

We have to be OK with the fact that as we get confronted by the internalized racism and patriarchy and privilege that our psychedelic sub-culture carries, that its going

to be a little messy for a while, and we are all going to have to feel uncomfortable at times.

Giving up your privilege is the ultimate psychedelic trip. There is something about that surrender that’s really deep.

If you are someone who does what we call holding space or facilitates in someway, to actively hand that power back as often as possible, when you realize someone is trying to give it to you it, is a really powerful meditation.”

Show Notes

● Britta Love talks about sexual abuse stories that were discussed on a
panel on psychedelic patriarchy she participated in.
● In Britta’s anti-racist work, whenever she starts to feel uncomfortable, she recognizes that that discomfort is not as bad as what it must feel like to get oppressed by systemic racism.
● Author Robert Anton Wilson’s idea of “reality tunnels” is that we all have our B.S. (Belief System). What if we could flip between belief systems and be more
flexible and be more literate with reality and open-minded.
● Britta speaks about a healer who was sexually abusive to a woman she knows.
● A woman was raped by a male nurse and she was strong-armed to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
● The psychedelic community needs more diversity, more women and people of color to balance out the equality of voices.
● We need healthy models of sexuality to express sexual energy in a positive and constructive manner to get rid of sexual aggression and power dynamics.
● We are too willing to hand over our power to healers and shamans. We can become our own healers when we are in safe environments.
● Psychedelic therapy can be demystified and taught, and doesn’t have to remain esoteric with a hierarchy of privilege structures.
● Forming collectives of up to 100 people with different skills to form a safe, supportive, and collective village of awareness and wisdom.
● How do we create containers that are encouraging of and supportive of the deep reflection that is required to undo racism and patriarchy and systems of oppression require?

3 Key Points:
1. In Britta’s anti-racist work, whenever she starts to feel uncomfortable, she recognizes that that discomfort is not as bad as what it must feel like to get oppressed by systemic racism.
2. We are too willing to hand over our power to healers and shamans—we can become our own healers when we are in safe spaces.
3. Know your value and contribution within a group. People feel better when they are a giver.

Resources Mentioned

Instagram – BrittaLoved

The Daily Transmission

Links

10 Reasons to End the War on Drugs and the War on Sex Workers

Britta LoveBritta Love

Britta Love is a writer, somatic sex educator and multi-dimensional healer based in Brooklyn, NY. A graduate of the London School of Economics and Goddard College, she wrote her thesis in Consciousness Studies on the healing and spiritual potential of altered states, specifically those induced by conscious sexual practice and the ritual use of psychoactive plant medicines. She writes for Alternet, Psymposia and Reality Sandwich, gives talks and facilitates workshops in NYC, and blogs on sex, drugs and consciousness

 

 

 

 

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Daniel McQueen – DMTx and Future Psychedelic Technologies


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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Daniel McQueen, Co-Founder of Medicinal Mindfulness and the DMT research project called DMTx. They discuss the extended-state DMT research project that they are involved in, the personal DMT trip experiences that Daniel McQueen has had, and what this research can make possible.

3 Key Points:

  1. Daniel McQueen does private retreats, groups, conscious cannabis circles, healing meditations, and community breath work.
  2. Goals for called Extended State DMT research include healing clinical concerns and advanced creative problem-solving with experts that need assistance.
  3. We are four-dimensional beings in an 11-dimensional reality.

Show Notes

  • What is DMTx?
  • Who originated the concept?
    • Dr. Rick Strassman and Dr. Andrew Gallimore.
  • Daniel’s story of a very intense and meaningful DMT experience
  • Depth Psychology is trying to bring things from the subconscious to the surface.
  • Humanist Psychology is based on what it means to be human and the human experience.
  • William James is one of the fathers of Transpersonal Psychology, which integrates the spiritual and transcendent aspects of the human experience with psychology.
  • Psychedelics Today has partnered with Daniel McQueen of Medicinal Mindfulness on a project called DMTx (Extended-State DMT research) which involves using an IV pump to keep a steady stream of DMT in the bloodstream for a long period of time.
  • Daniel McQueen does private retreats, groups, conscious cannabis circles, healing meditations, and community breath work.
  • DMT is “the most profound hallucinogen that we have access to.” It doesn’t lose its effect the more you use it.
  • Once you hit the peak of the DMT trip during Extended State DMT you stabilize.
  • People have been overwhelmed when smoking DMT because the dosages may have been too high with a lack of a sense of meaning—an overdose of stimulation.
  • A peak experience that Daniel had was slug beings showing the soul of his unborn child.
  • After his second child was born, Daniel had another trip where an authoritative being searched for the soul of his child that had now been born.
  • The risk is low but bad events not handled properly could involve: a cardiac arrest, situation even though there are no known cases and psychological crisis and mania.
  • Daniel is working towards a DMT travel exhibition with four experiences included.
  • Spiritual traditions will be integrated into the research to acknowledge the spiritual possibilities.
  • Goals for the project include healing clinical concerns and advanced creative problem-solving with experts that need assistance.
  • Daniel believes psychedelic medicines give us the potential to see things beyond three dimensions.
  • What happens when our culture is literate to the psychedelic space?
  • There is a moral case to make to prevent people using altered states to create more advanced dangerous weapons.
  • We are four-dimensional beings in an 11-dimensional reality.
  • Why can’t we use a more scientific approach to move towards spiritual awakenings?


Resources Mentioned

Daniel McQueen, MA

      

Daniel discovered meditation and spiritual practices at twelve and has been interested in exploring inner states ever since.  He apprenticed under a number of shamanic teachers and has been a practicing intentional journeyer for over 16 years.  For Daniel, working in the professional field of Cannabis and Psychedelics isn’t a career interest, but represents a core identity and life calling.  Finding a place to honor such a life calling within a world that has until recently prohibited it has been an interesting challenge.

After graduating from the University of Arkansas with a degree in Communication, Daniel traveled down a many forked and unmarked road through the wild terrain of political activism, corporate accountability research and campaign finance reform for many years in Washington, DC.  Disillusioned by the city, he moved to Florida and opened a small meditation center to explore grassroots community organizing before moving to Boulder, CO and returning to school at Naropa University.

Daniel earned a Masters Degree in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology from Naropa and received advanced training in MDMA-assisted psychotherapy through a year internship with the MAPS Boulder MDMA for PTSD Study.  It was his experience with MAPS that inspired Daniel to explore alternative visions in cannabis and psychedelic activism and entrepreneurship.

Daniel bridges transpersonal paradigms with the grounded clinical and organizational skills necessary to begin addressing the significant ecological and mental health crises facing our society today.  Although Daniel no longer practices as a clinical psychotherapist, he supports his clients as a teacher, coach, ally and event facilitator, providing individual and group transformational experiences and deeply held intentional conversations.  In his practice, Daniel quickly realized that the most important intervention he could provide to his clients, who were isolated and longed for meaningful contact with others, was a sense of community.  Medicinal Mindfulness is, in a very real way, a cultural intervention that provides a safe and transformational community container for healing and awakening… a program based on skill development and not dogma.  Since 2012, Daniel has been teaching a psychedelic harm prevention and intentional psychedelic use course called Psychedelic Sitters School.  Since the legalization of recreational cannabis in Colorado, he has been facilitating group journey experiences called Conscious Cannabis Events and guiding individual cannabis journeys.

In addition to his work with Medicinal Mindfulness, Daniel has a successful spirituality and life coaching practice with his wife, Alison, through their company, Aspenroots Counseling LLC.  Highly skilled in identifying and cultivating giftedness in young people and supporting significant life transitions, Daniel is inspired to support passionate and talented individuals striving to live into their calling.  A primary focus of his practice involves assessing and addressing the benefits and difficulties related to psychedelic and cannabis use and misuse.

Daniel co-founded the Naropa Alliance for Psychedelic Studies and helped organize the first annual Psychedelic Symposium at Naropa University in 2012.

About Medicinal Mindfulness

Medicinal Mindfulness® LLC and Medicinal Mindfulness Events LLC

Medicinal Mindfulness is a grassroots consciousness community/membership organization and education program that supports individuals and groups who choose to use cannabis and psychedelics with intention.  Founded by Daniel McQueen, MA, and his wife, Alison McQueen, MA, our community has come together to provide an enjoyable, safe, open and affirming space to share transformational cannabis and breathwork experiences.

We use clinically informed, mindfulness-based approaches within a somatically oriented, transpersonal and community paradigm to create an holistic (mind, body, spirit) process that initiates powerful transformations in healing and personal development.

Services are available for individuals, couples, families and groups.

Given the common misunderstandings and concerns that accompany the field of psychedelics and cannabis harm prevention and advocacy, we are committed to making ourselves available to public service and safety professionals to answer questions regarding psychedelic and cannabis harm reduction programs.