Kyle and Joe – Q&A: The Many Uses of Psychedelics

In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to cover questions from listeners of the show. They discuss topics that include psychedelic use for exorcisms, cluster headaches, athletic performance, processing grief and more.

3 Key Points:

  1. There are a few examples where psychedelics are used to increase athletic performance. Psychedelics can also be used to help realign those who are using sports as a form of distraction from internalized issues.
  2. When eliminating variables for psilocybin consistency in mushrooms for therapeutic use, freeze drying helps. But there are so many variables in mushrooms versus synthesized psilocybin.
  3. When addressing the sustainability of the Toad, according to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT

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Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

Kratom Warning

  • Joe brings up an issue that was brought up to him by a physician from the Wholeness Center, Dr. Craig Heacock, out of Fort Collins, CO
  • Dr. Heacock warns about Kratom
    • It is safer than opioids, but it can be physically addictive and getting off of it can be horrible
    • Kratom withdrawal closely imitates opioid withdrawal
    • The receptor site activity is the same as opioid pills

Using Psychedelics for an Exorcism

  • Kyle thinks of shamanic uses for plant medicines, and with the idea of purging and spiritual emergence, working in non-ordinary states can exacerbate these states and maybe help with this kind of work
  • Joe and Kyle go into writings from Stan Grof, explaining the physical appearance of those going through LSD psychotherapy or breathwork, and how it assimilates to an ‘exorcism’ of releasing the bad
  • The purging during a psychedelic experience may feel evil, or alien
  • Joe and Kyle say, do not perform an exorcism, leave it to the trained people

Treating Cluster Headaches with Psychedelics

  • Cluster Busters is an organization for the research on cluster headaches
  • LSD works for some as well as oxygen treatments work for others
  • We know a lot more about migraines than cluster headaches
    • The migraine is where neurons in the brain start misfiring and create a firing storm

How can Psilocybin Mushrooms be Standardized in Production for Therapeutic Use?

  • Joe says the practical solution is to have a really large amount of psilocybe cubensis, all blended up, and then split in even doses
  • There are potency differences between species, strains, etc
  • There are so many variances with mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin
  • Freeze drying also promotes close to 0% loss of psilocybin when drying mushrooms

Psychedelics and Athletic Performance

  • There may be psychological blocks that are getting in the way of a person reaching the peak performance of their genome
    • It could be trauma, or psychological blocks
  • Athletic performance could be a distraction from what you’re really here to do
    • Athletes have a lot of dysfunctional behavior
    • Psychedelics may show us our bad behavior and help us align
  • Kyle says he had this passion to snowboard and dedicate his life to snowboarding, and then he received a message in journeywork that told him snowboarding is simply a hobby and he needs to focus his life on other things
  • “Sports are a great way to cover up our emotions” – Joe
  • Kyle mentions tow other episodes that cover similar topics
    Ben Eddy
    Shane Lemaster

How to get the Ball Rolling on Psychedelic Liberty

  • Start a club
    • Joe says he’s been incubating a Psychedelic Club in Phoenix
  • Clubs are great for harm reduction

Is There a Humane or Conservative Way to Harvest the Toad Without Disrupting its Habitat?

  • Joe says yes, roadkill, pick them up off the road
  • If you touch a living one, there is a chance you’ll be doing harm
    • Even touching the toad can transmit harmful fungus to them
  • According to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT

How Psychedelics Might help with Processing Grief

  • Kyle says when he thinks about grief, he thinks about trauma
    • Psychedelics may be really beneficial when treating trauma
  • Kyle says he loves breathwork, because it creates the container to process things and even just simply cry
  • Kyle recommends a really great book on grieving, The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise by Martin Prechtel
  • Our culture does not contain grief very well
  • A lot of people internalize it instead of breaking down and letting it go


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About Kyle

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.