In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview previous guest of the show, Daniel Greig. In the show, he goes in depth into the meaning of enlightenment and previews the new book he is writing with Dr. John Vervaeke, The Cognitive Continuum.

3 Key Points:

1. Insight, flow and mystical experiences are all facets of working toward enlightenment.
2. Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality. It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life.
3. The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness. The most important part of having a mystical (psychedelic) experience is coming back into our bodies and developing better relationships with ourselves, others and the world.

---

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group – Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

---

Show Notes

The Cognitive Continuum

• There will be a crowdfunding campaign launched for the book
• The book will be a combination of art and science
• He is writing it with Dr. John Vervaeke
  
  • Youtube – Awakening for the Meaning Crisis
• The core of cognitive continuum is insight
• There is also the flow state
• There are also mystical states
• Insight, flow and mystical experiences all have something to do with enlightenment
  • If we can train people on how to access this cognitive continuum, they can become enlightened

Enlightenment

• It is important to see the truth
  • “How can we take our natural ability to attach to things, and learn to step back and care about the greater good?” – Daniel
• Cognitive flexibility is important to understand the needs of the greater collective
  • “Enlightenment means to apprehend truth and act in relation to truth” – Daniel
• Mind does not equal brain

Gut Feeling

• EGG – electro gastro grams
• There is a singular resting state network between the brain and the stomach
  • You’re never really able to access this network, but when we have ‘gut feelings’ it’s typically coming from neurons in your stomach
• Being grounded in those sensations of the stomach is a huge part of problem solving and guidance in truths
• We need to get back to ‘feeling’ something as actually meaning something

Mystical Experience

• Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality
• It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life
• Daniel uses a lot of Roberto Unger’s theories in his new book
• There is the absolute reality and illusory reality
• The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness
  • The most important part of having a mystical experience is the coming back into our bodies, having better relationships with ourselves and others
• Psychedelics don’t do anything by just sitting there, they take a perceiver to matter and make a difference
  • It’s the person, the body, that really holds the power to embodiment

Psychedelics and Enlightenment

• People say that psychedelics are a shortcut to enlightenment
  • Daniel says that psychedelics can help take people out of depression style states
  • A mystical experience can help you, but you’re going to hit a plateau if you don’t integrate and interpret these experiences
• For those practicing a lot of psychedelic work, they should balance with body work like yoga
  • There needs to be a balance in all practices in order to keep escalating toward enlightenment

Links

Website 

---

About Daniel Greig

Daniel is an educator, organizer and artist living in Toronto. He studied Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto, specializing in wisdom, consciousness, and spiritual belief and experience. In 2015, he founded the Mapping the Mind conference that occurs annually in Toronto, which raises much needed funds for psychedelic research. Daniel regularly host lectures and workshops, on topics in cognitive science. He is currently writing a book with Dr. John Vervaeke on the science of enlightenment, which will be published in 2020. When not contemplating the realm of the intellect, Daniel delves in the sonic perturbations of music, writing and producing progressive metal.

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Chris Bache, author of LSD and the Mind of the Universe. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions and talks about his experience in the show.

3 Key Points:

1. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions, but he says that pushing the edge of high dose and high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties. He does not recommend high dose sessions like he did.
2. The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves.
3. In the show, they discuss psychedelic therapy and the debate on whether or not therapists should have to have psychedelic experience to do the therapy. Chris believes that the level of experience a therapist has had will impact the type of support they will be able to give.

---

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group – Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

---

Show Notes

Psychedelic Interest

• It was at the time Chris had just finished grad school and was looking where to take his research as a university professor
• He was introduced to the work of Stan Grof, and his book Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research (Condor Books)
• He was the professor of Religious Studies, sticking to his traditional life
• He knew there would come a time for him to share his experiences with a larger audience
• Chris says he’s always been locked into his body and his physical experience
  • He had no background in psychedelic states of consciousness

Protocol

• He said you’re always working with a sitter and same context/setting
• As the dosage increased, he began creating a more intense music playlist
  • Chris thinks music is very important for psychedelic sessions
• Chris does not recommend working with high doses
• “When you’re working with opening consciousness that radically, music has a tremendous effect, it has an amplifying effect by 5 or 10x than doing it without music” – Chris
• Chris said he has experienced all the common layers of the psychedelic unconscious that’s talked about

Consciousness Levels

• Chris experienced 4 different death/rebirths
• Chris differentiated 5 levels of the universe
  • The first is at the personal mind, where an ego death happens
  • The second takes places at the collective mind, about species
  • The third level is an archetypal mind, the high subtle mind, moving beyond the species existence
  • The fourth level is causal mind, causal oneness, profound states of non-dual reality
  • The last is Diamond Luminosity, its absolute clarity, pureness

Psychedelic Therapy

• Chris says that there is a certain level of support that one needs to truly let go of themselves and let go to the experience
• He says that he thinks the level of experience will impact the type of support a therapist will be able to give

Subtle Level

• The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves
• Pushing the edge of high dose, high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties
• Chris says he was very secret about his psychedelic use, his students didn’t know about it
  • But he said after he had gone deep and touched these different levels of consciousness, his students became alive
  • The deeper he went in his own work, the more it touched the students at a deeper level

Potency

• Chris thinks that LSD is a little cleaner than other psychedelics
  • His basic sense is that psilocybin tends to be less evocative, disruptive
  • Ayahuasca is more disruptive in opening up to deeper levels
  • LSD is the most disruptive in opening people up to really deep levels of consciousness
  • With LSD is was less about his personal experience, and more about the collective unconscious experience

Realizations

• With one of his experiences, he had seen everything in his whole life all at once
• He then entered into archetypal experiences, the platonic domain beyond the time-space reality
• The beings he ‘met’ were as large as universes, responsible for creating time and space
• He went into ‘deep time’, different magnitudes of time experiences in a broader frame of reference (where we are in the history of time, what our future looks like)
• He reached that diamond luminosity level only 4 times out of all of his LSD sessions
• “If we keep this up, sooner or later, the totality of this consciousness is going to wake up” – Chris
• “We are moving toward a collective wake up, it’s not a personal experience, it’s a collective experience. An evolution of our species.” -Chris
• If Chris has one tip, is to let go of our fear of death, when we die, we go back home
• After so many sessions, and not taking the time to stop to integrate, after years, his body was screaming for community, and he felt this deep existential sadness and felt as if he was just waiting to die
  • It took 10 years to integrate his deep exploration, and to finally feel okay and comfortable again in his body suit and in this life
• The universe is an infinite ocean of possibilities, we will never reach the end
• “The collective psyche is being cosmically stimulated by the trauma that we are entering into” -Chris

Links

Articles 

LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven

Chrisbache.com – future website

 

---

About Chris

Christopher M. Bache is professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An award-winning teacher, Chris’ work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. Chris has written three books translated into six languages: Lifecycles – a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn – a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy and collective consciousness; and The Living Classroom, an exploration of teaching and collective fields of consciousness. His new book is Diamonds from Heaven ~ LSD and the Mind of the Universe (2019).

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Addy, Licensed Mental Health Counselor out of Washington. In the show, they talk about the research and therapeutic use of Salvia.

3 Key Points:

1. Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports, although there are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant.
2. In a recreational setting, Salvia is usually smoked, but in the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method.
3. The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now. It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research.

---

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group – Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

---

Show Notes

About Peter

• Peter helped found the Yale Psychedelic Speaker Series
  • The main goal was to normalize talking about psychedelic research as research
• Peter joined the pharmacology lab for his post doctoral research on Salvia
  • The team was mainly studying THC but were also studying Ketamine
  • He wanted to bring in MDMA and Psilocybin research
• Peter attended The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
  • As a psychologist, Peter focused heavily on feedback and experience

Transpersonal Psychology

• It all started when Peter stumbled across a dusty book in the library as a Freshman, States of Consciousness by Charles Tart
  The book talked a lot about meditation
• Joe says he has been practicing non-drug transpersonal states (breathwork) for years
• You can have a psychedelic experience without drugs, and you can also take psychedelics and not have the psychedelic experience at all, it’s not about the drug
  • “Everyone has an innate desire towards transcending who they are, moving towards wholeness, and personal and societal transformation” – Peter
• “If I’m kind, then people around me are more likely to be kind, it’s about the transformation of groups and societies than about having a cool trick” – Peter

Salvia

• “Psychedelic Assisted Psychotherapy is proven to do a lot of really good things, but it’s not the only way and it’s not necessarily the right way. There are wrong ways to do it, but not one culture owns this experience.” – Peter
• “Having a healthy critique of science in the modern world is helpful because its a series of provisional truths, it’s a good tool to get closer to objective reality, but its not perfect, it’s all we have so far” – Joe
• Peter says that art is an amazing tool as well
  • Verbal language is limiting, he has seen images that can convey an experience way better than words can
• Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports
  • There are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant
• There was going to be a bill to make Salvia illegal in 2008 or 2009
  • Now it’s just illegal for minors

Salvia Study

• Peter recruited 30 people who had all used psychedelics
• He used a controlled set, setting and intention
• He used either a Salvia extract or just the unadulterated leaf
  • No one in the real world is using Salvinorin A, they are smoking the leaf or using extracts of the leaf
• The participants smoked it when they desired, Peter was not enforcing the smoking
  • It was a very relaxed setting
• Once the participants smoked, they then had an experience for 10 minutes, and then he came together with them and just listened to their experience
  • 2 people got up and moved, the rest just sat there in the experience
• Interoception (the inner feelings of your body) is the internal form of proprioception (the feeling of your body in space)
• Every time you smoke something it is going to hit you quickly and be over quickly
  • By the time you realize what’s going on in a Salvia experience, you’re already on your way out
  • In the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method

Advice

• The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now
• It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research
  • Peter says if you do get funding, attach it to something else
  • MDMA research didn’t just begin to ‘see what it could help’, PTSD sucks, and there isn’t a whole lot that works to treat it, but MDMA does and it just happens to be a type of psychedelic

Links

Website

---

About Peter

Peter is both a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Washington and a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oregon. He earned a PhD in Clinical Psychology from Sofia University in 2011, including certification in biofeedback and Process Oriented Psychodrama. There, he studied non-ordinary states of consciousness, holistic and all-encompassing views of a person, and ways that these experiences can transform a person and society. Peter then engaged in post-degree specialty training at Danville State Hospital, Yale University School of Medicine, and the Connecticut Mental Health Center. As faculty at Yale University he engaged in research and training. Some of his clinical training is in mindfulness-based therapies, Motivational Interviewing, and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He also discovered a passion for data management and security which he brings with him to his online therapy practice.