In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and discuss two news stories emerging from Portland, Oregon- first, paramilitary-like federal agents showing up in unmarked cars and arresting protestors, and second, the beating and pepper-spraying of one of those protestors, Christopher David.
They look at these events from multiple perspectives- what fears are driving the opinions of people who are against these protests? Why does there always seem to be money when it comes to military expenses, but never any money when it comes to the wellbeing of people? How many police officers fully stand behind what they’re doing, and how many are simply following orders or deeming certain evils necessary solely to earn their federal pension?
They analyze systems and better ways forward, like considering a bottom-up approach vs. the standard top-down approach or Ken Wilbur’s framework of transcending an old system while including all the lessons from it. They also discuss decriminalization vs. legalization and the importance of regulation, and the massive scale of concepts and systems, like how MKUltra needs to be included when discussing the history of psychology.
They also discuss telehealth and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and the complications surrounding it right now, from both therapists and clients not wanting to be in an office to the concerns of self-administration at home, to the benefits of self-exploration for those who do feel comfortable and safe engaging on their own. And lastly, they talk about their upcoming Navigating Psychedelics class, which is selling fast and will never be cheaper than it is now.
Notable quotes
“This is illegal, and people seem to forget that it’s illegal. Even if it’s decriminalized in a locality, doesn’t mean the feds can’t come in and shut you down. And that’s why they call me the party pooper.” -Joe
“How many people get into higher systems and institutions with really good intentions [of] wanting to make change, and thinking… “I’m going to change it from the top down.” …What would a ‘bottom-up’ approach be, and how could we give power back to communities to start to create their own change, instead of thinking that we need to change it from these hierarchical systems? I always come back to Bucky Fuller’s quote about just creating a different system- you don’t change a system by trying to change it, you make a new system that’s obsolete to that old way of being. …I’m thinking also too, from the somatic lens in therapy- approaching it more cognitively, intellectually- this whole top-down brain approach vs. a body-oriented approach and working with the trauma, working with the body and thinking about, ok, what’s the body? It’s people, it’s communities. How do we start to work that way?” -Kyle
“I just prefer to see government funds spent on stuff like the green new deal to save us from climate change. Or health care for all- those kinds of things. Why spend to put people in jail, when we could have, just like with cannabis, taxable revenue. I don’t want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just because it’s not equitable, I don’t think that totally excludes the thing. I’d just like to see less people going to jail, less people being harmed by black market drugs, and more clean appropriate drugs available to the people who want them.” -Joe
“How do we have the money to send these paramilitary agents in but you didn’t have the money to produce personal protection equipment for hospitals? What’s going on here?” -Kyle
In this episode, Kyle speaks with Imperial College London research assistant and past guest, Dr. Malin Vedøy Uthaug, who just earned her doctorate and published her dissertation on Ayahuasca and 5-MeO-DMT research.
Uthaug discusses how she started working in this field, why Prague is a good place for research, what past research has led to today, how certain factors could predict whether someone would have a more challenging or more mystical experience, how these experiences can treat people with PTSD differently, what dissociation actually means, the differences between vaporized 5-MeO-DMT and intramuscular 5-MeO-DMT injections and how injections typically lead towards better trauma resolution over the “too much too soon” effects of vaporization. They also talk about reactivation (re-experiencing parts of the 5-MeO-DMT experience at a later time) and why it might happen, how it is different from LSD flashbacks, and how expectations, the experience, and the facilitator all come into play.
They discuss her research and dissertation, which consisted of 2 studies on ayahuasca and 3 on 5-MeO-DMT, focusing on if participants saw improvement in convergent thinking and mental health variables (depression, anxiety and stress), and how her placebo-controlled study revealed that those who received the placebo still saw a marked improvement. This leads to a conclusion that often, context may play a larger role than the medicine- feeling safe and being heard in a ceremonial, community-based setting may be the biggest factor towards healing.
Notable Quotes
“Once you make the unconscious conscious, then you can learn from it, and [it’s not] so much about resisting anymore. Carl Jung says, ‘what you resist persists,’ and what I think is happening, especially with PTSD, is that you’re kind of just holding this ball underwater and it’s not allowed to float to the surface.”
“You need to feel safe, you need to experience being heard and seen. Psychedelics do help us remember things that we have repressed, but obviously, [they] also make us very vulnerable and things might come up. And having somebody witness that and validate those feelings that are expressed and shown can be incredibly healing for people.”
“What we can learn is to learn to sit with difficult emotions and to not push them aside. …I learned that there is comfort in the discomfort. I learned that you can basically figure out so many things about yourself if you just sit with yourself for a moment and you stay in that uncomfortable silence.”
Malin completed her PhD at the department of Neuropsychology and Psychopharmacology, at the faculty of Psychology and Neuroscience at Maastricht University, The Netherlands. As part of her PhD, she investigated the short-term and long-term effects of Ayahuasca and 5-MeO-DMT in naturalistic settings, while simultaneously initiating several other studies on the psychedelic substance Mescaline and the breathing practice known as Holotropic Breathwork (HB). Malin is currently working as a Postdoctoral researcher at The Centre for Psychedelic Research, at Imperial College London, led by Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris. Here she is investigating the effects of 5-MeO-DMT on mental health related variables, brain activity and consciousness together with Dr. Christopher Timmermann. Besides being a researcher, Malin is also an editor for the ‘Journal of Psychedelics Studies’, a board member of the American podcast-show known as Psychedelics Today, and the co-founder of the Norwegian Association for Psychedelic Science (Norsk Forening for Psykedelisk Vitenskap [NFPV]) whose main aim is to educate the general public as well as researchers, and mental health practitioners in Norway about psychedelics.
Mental health has become one of the central themes of 2020 thanks to COVID-19 and the resulting societal shutdown. In fact, the psychological spillover from coronavirus is projected to evolve into an entirely separate pandemic, according to the Journal of the American Psychiatric Nurses Association(JAPNA). Like the virus itself, the “second pandemic” is nothing to ignore. The United Nations, World Health Organization and other academic sources such as the Journal of the American Medical Association have also sounded the alarm about a potential mental health crisis coming down the pipeline.
The JAPNA study, however, calls for the implementation of “new mental health interventions” and “collaboration among health leaders” in order to prepare for mobilization when the masses are seeking psychological assistance. While psychedelic medicines were not explicitly cited in the study, these drugs offer an array of treatments that just so happen to address many of the mental health issues brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic, including depression, anxiety, PTSD, and paranoia. Specifically, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, which is on the brink of legalization in Oregon, may serve as one such model to assuage the psychological fallout from COVID-19.
Causes of the Mental Health Pandemic
So, how can COVID trigger a mental health crisis? That answer is: Easily. At the time of writing, over 121,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 and more than 2.3 million have been infected, according to data from John Hopkins University. The authors of the JAPNA article note that survivors of ICU treatment face an elevated risk for depression, posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), sleep disturbance, poor quality of life, and cognitive dysfunction.
Those who contract COVID are not the only ones facing psychological trauma from the pandemic, however. Healthcare workers on the frontlines are at a heightened risk of experiencing severe trauma, PTSD, anxiety, and depression from COVID. Family members of coronavirus patients also face heightened distress, fear, and anxiety, all of which are likely aggravated by the restrictions on hospital visits and lack of testing. The rapid influx of COVID-19 cases also has the potential to decrease capacity for treating other patients, such as those experiencing psychological issues.
Moreover, even people who have not directly dealt with COVID may experience mental health troubles. A lot of anxiety exists around virus exposure, which is triggered when having to leave the house for basic reasons, such as going to the grocery store or bank. The media’s inconsistent, doomsday coverage of the pandemic adds to the confusion around what’s going on, resulting in extreme fear, information overwhelm, and hysteria.
The unintended consequences of a nationwide shut down is also proving to have a negative impact on mental health, according to a study published in European Psychiatry (EP). Lack of social interaction, specifically, is a well-known risk factor for depression, anxiety disorders and other mental health conditions. Further, the study warns that the longer such policies are in effect, the more risk they pose to those with preexisting mental health issues.
“Most probably we will face an increase of mental health problems, behavioral disturbances, and substance-use disorders, as extreme stressors may exacerbate or induce psychiatric problems,” the EP authors write.
News from the economic front is also concerning. The IMF projects global GDP will contract by 3 percent this year—the most severe decline since the Great Depression—with the US GDP predicted to drop by a whopping 5.9 percent. Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show more than 40 million Americans have filed for unemployment benefits since mid-March, a number that will likely increase. For many, job security means financial stability, which generally ties into one’s mental wellness.
Research published in Clinical Psychological Science found that people who lost their job, income and housing during the Great Recession were at a higher risk of depression, anxiety and substance abuse. This is particularly troubling considering the Great Recession only caused a .1 percent drop in global GDP, a decline 30 times less severe than the financial crisis caused by COVID-19. Moreover, suicide rates in the US are directly related to unemployment. In fact, for every unemployment rate percentage increase, the suicide rate rises 1.6 percent in the US, according to a study in the Social Science and Medicine journal.
Looking at all of these factors combined, a mental health crisis seems imminent. A report from the Well Being Trust predicts that COVID-19 and its associated stressors will cause anywhere from 27,644 to 154,000 deaths from alcohol, drugs and suicide. The results of a recent poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation suggest our trajectory could already be trending towards the worst-case scenario. The poll shows that 56 percent of Americans surveyed believe the outbreak has negatively impacted their mental health. But that number rose to 64 percent for those who experienced income loss.
How Can Psychedelics Help?
Psilocybin, MDMA and ketamine combined with psychotherapy show promise for treating an array of mental health conditions— many of which happen to be brought on by the pandemic.
Studies show that psilocybin-assisted therapy decreases depression and anxiety in patients with life-threatening diseases, such as cancer. Participants reported reduced feelings of hopelessness, demoralization, and fear of death. Even 4.5 years after the treatment, 60 to 80 percent of participants still demonstrated clinically significant antidepressant and anti-anxiety responses. While we do not advocate for those sick with coronavirus to eat mushrooms, these studies suggest that psilocybin may be effective in treating the extreme fear, anxiety and depression activated by the virus and global shutdown.
MDMA-assisted psychotherapy also promises major relief from pandemic-related trauma. Multiple studies show that it is a profound tool in the treatment of PTSD for military veterans, firefighters and police officers with no adverse effects post-treatment. MDMA therapy could be particularly beneficial to healthcare workers, survivors of extreme COVID cases or those who lost a loved one to the disease— all of which can inflict significant trauma, and therefore, PTSD.
“We found that over 60 percent of the participants no longer had PTSD after just three sessions of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy,” says Brad Burge, the director of strategic communications at MAPS. “We also found that those benefits persisted and people actually tended to continue getting better over the next year without any further treatments.”
Ketamine (and the esketamine nasal spray) treatment, on the other hand, is already available in North America. It’s especially effective in assuaging the tension of treatment resistant depression, bipolar disorder, chronic pain, and PTSD —all of which could be exacerbated by pandemic-related stressors.
Keep in mind, however, that using psychedelics at home is different than receiving psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. Catherine Auman, a licensed family and marriage therapist with experience in psychedelic integration, warns that now may not be the best time to use psychedelics, especially in a non-clinical setting. She worries that pandemic-related stressors could impact a patient’s psychological state.
“Psychedelics are powerful substances and are best to do at a time in a person’s life when they’re feeling more stable, not less,” Auman explains. “This is good advice whether someone is using them recreationally or therapeutically.”
Will COVID-19 Impede Psychedelic Research and Delay Public Access?
The pandemic has impeded both psychedelic research efforts and access to currently available therapies. We’re essentially at a standstill until COVID is controlled. MAPS is among few—if not the only—organization with FDA permission to carry on research, but at a reduced scale. When we first spoke with Burge for this story, MAPS was on its first session of Phase 3 MDMA clinical trials. More recently, however, the FDA allowed MAPS to end the first round of Phase 3 early with only 90 out of 100 of the planned participants enrolled. Burge confirmed MAPS is already preparing for their second and last Phase 3 clinical trial. He predicts the DEA could reschedule MDMA by as early as 2022.
Usona Institute temporarily paused all in-person activities related to its Phase 2 clinical trials looking at psilocybin for major depressive disorder, according to its April newsletter. Usona is still recruiting participants for clinical trials at five sites, however.
Compass Pathways is not currently accepting any new patients in its clinical trials looking into the impact of psilocybin on treatment-resistant depression, according to a statement. They continue to support already enrolled patients remotely, when possible within the protocol. Pre-screening of potential study participants continues where possible, too.
Field Trip Health is a recently formed network of clinics offering ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. The facility opened its first clinic in Toronto in March. But, after seeing one patient, it promptly shut down due to the accelerating spread of COVID-19.
The decision for Field Trip Health to close its clinic was relatively easy, according to Ronan Levy, the company’s executive chairman. They didn’t have large numbers of patients actively receiving treatment yet. But, the pandemic has forced the organization to quickly adapt. “We launched a digital online therapy program, so patients can self-refer or have referrals to our psychotherapists, who are trained in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, with specific protocols and behavioral therapies,” says Verbora, Field Trip Health’s medical director. “Long term, as these clinics start to open up again, we’ll have dual streams. We’ll be able to sort patients in the clinic for ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, but some of their care may be able to be done from home.”
While the COVID-19 pandemic has hampered research efforts in the short term and, the movement around the healing properties of psychedelic medicine is still going strong.
“The path to acceptance might be slowed down a little bit due to COVID,” Verbora says. “But the current path that’s being undertaken by a number of different groups and institutions is one that’s going to lead to profound changes in the way we approach mental health.”
The timing couldn’t be more perfect.
About the Author
Jeff Kronenfeld is an independent journalist and fiction writer based out of Phoenix, Arizona. His articles have been published in Vice, Overture Global Magazine and other outlets. His fiction has been published by the Kurt Vonnegut Memorial Library, Four Chambers Press and other presses.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about various topics in the news and dive deep into somatic psychology.
They first discuss Canadian mushroom life sciences company Cybin Corp’s recent collaboration with drug delivery company IntelGenx to create an orally dissolvable film to administer psilocybin in controlled doses. This feels to them like the early days in the expansion of cannabis offerings, and how, for people with difficulty swallowing or pill-phobia, this may be the best option for psilocybin.
Next, they talk about a recent study of 65 U.S. Special Operations Forces veterans who took Ibogaine on day 1 and 5-MeO-DMT on day 3 (with surrounding processing and integration time) and the amazing results, including most participants rating their psychedelic experiences as one of the top five most personally meaningful and spiritually significant experiences of their lives. Joe brings up a seldom-asked question on whether non-combat veterans should be differentiated from combat veterans in these studies and therapies.
The last article they look at highlights a study where physicians used a new selective‐dose cannabis inhaler to administer microdoses of THC (either .5mg or 1mg) to patients with great results in decreasing pain without affecting cognitive performance. They talk about their experiences with low dose edibles and how they’ve seen great benefits from tiny amounts.
They then discuss many aspects of Kyle’s area of expertise (and often not mentioned in-depth on this podcast), Somatic psychology. They talk about how breathwork and a session with a physical therapist led Kyle to this practice, the concept of character armoring, William Reich’s idea of neurosis being represented throughout the entire organism, how the western mind focuses on the material body, trying to fix things, and technique, how the smallest muscle quivering during a breathwork session can show where work needs to be done, and the difficulty people have in discussing the body- how it’s almost a secret language only learned through experience or their therapist’s suggestive questions on whether they’re feeling a certain emotion or even seeing a color.
Notable quotes
“Thinking about my early years exploring psychedelics, I was so focused on the mind- the experience was outside of me, the knowledge and the wisdom was in the numinous. And that’s where I was going to find all the answers. …It wasn’t until I had my first breathwork experience, where it was such a somatic experience- where I was feeling the experience in my body vs. externalizing my experience outside of my body and viewing it more as this thing of novelty- of something I’ve never experienced before. Actually having that experience and feeling it within myself, [I realized] I have felt this before, and it’s inside of me.” -Kyle
“[Bodywork] just reveals how much is not immediately available in the day-to-day consciousness. There’s so much happening- so much stored in our body that we just don’t even really have a handle on it. …My favorite line (which, I’m starting to feel like I’m cheating) is: “Mind is, at the very least, diffused throughout the body.” -Joe
“As a culture, we’re so body-oriented at times, right? We think about diet, exercise, yoga has turned more into more of an exercise than a lifestyle or practice. …We’re so focused more on the physical, material body than the emotional body, and that’s something that’s really hard to tap into.” -Kyle
“Try not to set out with some of these goals that ‘we need to change this.’ What does it feel like to just maybe feel some of these things?” -Kyle
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about various topics in the news.
They first discuss Rise Wellness (a company focused on teaching people how to microdose psilocybin)’s recent merger with CannaGlobal and Sansero Life Sciences to become CannaGlobal Wellness, and why many smaller companies are merging, and why Canada may be a hot new destination point for these companies. Joe suggests a new idea of helping people microdose through the use of a transdermal patch.
They talk about psychology today and the idea of no theory being complete without including all perspectives (including psychedelic perspectives), the concept of re-phrasing “what’s wrong with you?” to “what has happened to you?”, a recent student’s theory that schizophrenia may actually be a protection mechanism, Amsterdam-based psilocybin-retreat company Synthesis’ recent $2.75 million funding towards developing an end-to-end professional wellness & therapy platform, and what that means to the community- are these companies focusing on the drug as the crux, or the full therapy picture?
Lastly, they talk about the death of Elijah McClain from a 500-milligram injection of ketamine, using thoughts from past guest and regular administrator of ketamine to patients, Dr. Alex Belser. They talk about how ketamine can be necessary, but how it has unfortunately been used as a weapon for chemical restraint against people of color, which brings about larger questions on whether people should be allowed to hurt themselves or not- what role do physicians, therapists and police officers ultimately have in people’s freedom to do what they want with their bodies?
And just as a reminder, Psychedelics Today is currently offering a course developed by Kyle and Dr. Ido Cohen called Psychedelics and The Shadow: The Shadow Side of Psychedelia. And the next round of Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists will be starting in September, with a new self-paced option.
Notable Quotes
On William James: “As soon as he found out about other states of consciousness other than the normal waking state, he’s saying that no theory for how the world works is complete unless we include all perspectives. So, like, what is the American constitution when you’re on nitrous or on LSD? What is appropriate political idealogy, given all of these things? Essentially, he’s saying that we’re going to keep developing new tools to understand the universe, and every time we have one of these new tools, it kind of expands the scope of what we need in our theories for how the world works. …Psychedelic states, shamanic states- how do we include that into our worldview to have a complete scientific framework? I think it’s just a never-ending process, and a fun one.” -Joe
“Even the people that I’ve worked with [who] are really really struggling, and I’ve seen medication work really well for them at times, I always come back to: ‘what has this person been through? Do they actually have this thing that science and probably psychiatry would label as a disease?’ …Some of the trauma stuff that’s coming out, the neuroscience, some of the somatics- it’s all kind of merging. And with the help of psychedelics, I’m feeling more optimistic that maybe the field will go into more of a growth, healing-oriented route vs. this pathology [of] ‘sick.’” -Kyle
“With these clinics that are popping up- are you exclusively focusing on the psychedelic experience, or are you trying to focus on the therapeutic relationship, the rapport, the container, the trust that’s developed over time, and really developing that relationship with the client? There’s tons of research that suggests that a therapeutic relationship is the one factor in getting better in therapy. So, as money is coming into this space and more of these clinics are popping up, are you creating a center around therapy, and really thinking about how to bring wellness and work with people in this space, or are just focusing it exclusively on the substance, thinking that’s the change?” -Kyle
In today’s episode, Joe interviews Jesse Gould, founder and president of the Heroic Hearts Project, a nonprofit organization that connects military veterans to ayahuasca retreats, and Keith Abraham, head of the newly created Heroic Hearts UK branch.
They discuss the similarities of their military pasts and post-combat struggles, and how they both took part in ayahuasca ceremonies at Peru’s La Medicina, where they eventually met. They note the need to create the UK branch came from the realization that UK vets simply weren’t getting as much attention as those in the US.
They talk about the unlikely allyship of Crispin Blunt, member of Parliament and co-chair of the All Party Parliamentory Group for Drug Policy Reform, the consideration of using psilocybin in future work as a less intense ayahuasca alternative, current microbiome studies and the excitement around new data vs. the “death by survey” complications when working with people in need, and how helpful a military mindset can be in these situations.
They share some success stories but talk about how far we need to go in helping veterans come back to society, and how much we’d benefit from a more ceremonial acceptance of the passage from one way of life to another. The corporate 9-5 world can be tough for anyone, but ultimately, finding a purpose and connecting to a community is what’s most important toward these veterans reintegrating back to their “pre-army” lives.
Notable Quotes
“Ayahuasca changed everything. I came out of that jungle a very different person. I wouldn’t say that I had a 400% healing experience, but I had that massive, massive, massive catalyst where I knew that my life had to change. And it has. And from there, in the year since, when I got myself together, I started realizing, ‘you know what? I’m in a good place. How can I introduce UK veterans to the experience that I’ve had, because I see that as vitally important?’ And then I was introduced to Jesse, and it turned out that the organization that I thought I wanted to create had already been created perfectly.” -Keith Abraham
“My sons actually in the same unit as I was (in the parachute regiment.) When I left the parachute regiment and went for my ayahuasca experience in Peru, I then came back, and my son was looking at me like, “wait, you’re a grizzly old war veteran, and now you’re talking about, like ‘everything is connected, and love and peace and harmony’ um… this is… strange.’’ He’s gotten really used to it now, but yea, it’s wonderful that these plant medicines can do these things for us. [We have] such strong minds and characters, and this ingrained training as well, but it can be overwhelmed in a good way.” -Keith Abraham
“One of the things we teach through Heroic Hearts, especially in the integration process, is: it’s fine to maintain your warrior- that warrior spirit, that warrior soul. But now you need to learn to use that energy and use that strength towards other means. You might be done with the fighting for now, but that doesn’t mean you’re set out to pasture and done with society. There’s a lot of different ways you can use that energy. …How can you continue to be a warrior, just on a different trajectory?” -Jesse Gould
Jesse Gould is Founder and President of the Heroic Hearts Project, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit pioneering psychedelic therapies for military veterans. After being deployed in Afghanistan three times, he founded the Heroic Hearts Project in 2017 to spearhead the acceptance and use of ayahuasca therapy as a means of addressing the current mental health crisis among veterans. The Heroic Hearts Project has raised over $150,000 in scholarships from donors including Dr. Bronner’s and partnered with the world’s leading ayahuasca treatment centers, as well as sponsoring psychiatric applications with the University of Colorado Boulder and the University of Georgia. Jesse helps shape treatment programs and spreads awareness of plant medicine as a therapeutic method. He has spoken globally about psychedelics and mental health, and received accolades including being recognized as one of the Social Entrepreneurs To Watch For In 2020 by Cause Artist. Driven by a mission to help military veterans struggling with mental trauma, he is best known for his own inspiring battle with PTSD and his recovery through ayahuasca therapy. Jesse’s work can be seen and heard at NY Times, Breaking Convention, San Francisco Psychedelic Liberty Summit, People of Purchase, The Freq, Psychedelics Today Podcast, Kyle Kingsbury Podcast, Cause Artist, WAMU 88.5 and The GrowthOp.
About Keith Abraham
Keith Abraham served 9 years as a member of The Parachute Regiment, fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Throughout the latter years of his military service and during this time working for an investment bank, Keith began experiencing severe symptoms of anxiety and depression. After exhausting the majority of services and options offered by the NHS and military charities without much success, Keith realized a new approach was needed. His profound experiences with ayahuasca and psilocybin convinced him of the vital role plant medicines have to offer those suffering from PTSD, brain injuries and mental ill-health.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about various topics in the news.
They first discuss the duality of how Covid-19 affects different people, and how much of a privilege it is to be able to reconnect with family in new ways and use this time to grow spiritually while so many are out of work and struggling to get by.
They discuss a recent tweet from @Shroomstreet concerning psychedelic stocks and the money being invested in this emerging market, and concerns that some of these unknown companies could be fake or following the “exit scam” model of holding onto investor money and then closing up shop. How many of these companies are in it for the right reasons, and what does this all mean on a grand scale? They talk about recent reports of psychedelic retreats in excess of $10,000 and the various aspects surrounding these prices, from the cost of education and the need for physicians and therapists to make a living while helping others, to the idea of “pay what you can” and taking a hit financially if it means helping the local community or those really in need without the finances to be able to participate in these retreats. Is pastoral counseling or group therapy the best way to help the most people?
And lastly, they talk about Oregon’s progress in getting legal psilocybin therapy on the ballot in November and the benefits of legality, most importantly towards the ability to report abusive sitters under a framework that would completely remove them from this field.
Notable quotes
“The Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm is just so focused on the how- on the mechanics of ‘how does a psychedelic work? Oh, ok, it can treat this. How does it treat this?’ vs. thinking about the idea of final cause and thinking about the why- why do these things exist? What is its purpose, and what is the potential implication here, on a bigger level, than just thinking about this how and thinking ‘this thing does this thing and that’s all we’re really worried about,’ not thinking about that overarching why- like, what is the purpose here?” -Kyle
“I think everybody really should be able to access healing eventually. I think people shouldn’t be starving to death either, but people are still starving to death. I remember Kwasi (Adusei, in Solidarity Fridays week 10) at one point was like, ‘should we bring psychedelics to minority communities for healing?’ Well, why not bring regular mental health services first? Let’s start with clean water, as opposed to ‘let’s give them a road that they didn’t want.’ What’s the cheapest, lowest-hanging fruit that’s going to give the best reward?” -Joe
“Education programs probably would be really helpful. And I think that’s how we fit in. It’s a philosophy thing that could be helpful for both recreationalists and people providing therapeutic experiences, and the experiencers themselves too. It helps to have some education before you go to see God.” -Joe
“I think states should be experimenting with different ways of going forward. Yes, I want everything to be decriminalized- I want everything to be legal, really- personally. I don’t think therapeutic use should be the only use-case. But it’s certainly a lot better than what we’ve got now.” -Joe
In this episode, Joe speaks with Peter Hendricks, Ph.D. and Associate Professor at the University of Alabama, currently involved in researching the effects of psilocybin on people dealing with cocaine-related substance use disorder.
He discusses the details of the pilot trial (following the Johns Hopkins model, with music created by Bill Richards), some early findings and speculations, what music might work best for these sessions, how excited he is to bring these findings to the criminal justice system, and how religion and tribalism come into play when looking at what people get out of these psychedelic experiences. Hendricks points out that while psilocybin is currently being researched as a treatment for tobacco use (by Matthew Johnson at Johns Hopkins) and alcohol use (by Michael Bogenschutz at NYU), this is the first large study with cocaine and could lead to the first medication for major stimulants. And while there have been many studies on psilocybin in general, they’ve rarely been focused on the people he’s working with, who are often poorer, less educated, often out of work, and usually struggling more than those typically involved in these studies. They also talk about what research of the past has given us data-wise, and how inspirational it has been to the work being done today.
Notable Quotes
“The participants in our trial- they haven’t read Michael Pollan’s book or others. They’re not in the know. I’ll have to explain to them what the drug is, and the common reaction is, ‘uhh, so you’re going to help me stop getting high by getting me high?’ and I’ll try to explain how the drug might differ from others, from more addictive drugs like cocaine. And as we know, it’s an ineffable experience- it’s a difficult experience to put to words…. I’m honored and I have admiration for our participants because they have the courage to dive into this study conducted at a University by people they’ve never met. It can be a very frightening experience and they say, ‘you know what, I’ve tried everything. At this point, I’m desperate, let’s give it a try.’ I probably couldn’t overstate how much courage it takes for them to do what they do. I don’t know that I could do it myself.”
“I think for most of the world’s fates, the tenants are that we’re all in this together, and we’re bound by love. And that really might be the message that most people get from psychedelics, but similar to religion, sometimes that message is perverted a bit and what you take from it is, ‘my in-group is what’s most important and I’m going to act to preserve my own tribe, even if it means treating others in an awful, inhumane way…’ Sometimes experiences that are really meant to foster a connection with everybody can go haywire and we have to be aware of that”
“One criticism of some of the studies conducted so far has been, how do we know that psilocybin might have these effects on a sample that isn’t all college-educated or doctorates or who are Professors at Universities who make more than 100,000 dollars per year and live comfortably? How do we know that this experience would have any meaning to somebody who’s making less than 10,000 per year, who has a fifth-grade education, who’s unemployed and homeless? I think in large part, this study might answer that question. If we find an effect, then we can say it appears to also have an effect among those who look different and whose life circumstances are much different than some of the earlier participants.”
Dr. Hendricks received his doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of South Florida and completed a post-doctoral Fellowship in Drug Abuse Treatment and Services Research at the University of California, San Francisco. His research centers on the development of novel and potentially more effective treatments for substance dependence, with specific areas of focus on tobacco, cocaine, and polysubstance dependence in vulnerable populations.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to talk about topics in the news including Mindmed’s phase one research into DMT, the intricacies of intravenous or infusion-pump administration, the potential clinical application of DMT, and whether or not mainstream science is ready to handle some transpersonal phenomena like entity encounters that sometimes occur during DMT experiences. They also discuss the projections for the psychedelic drug market and the intentions of the companies entering this space, and a recent tweet from the Drug Policy Alliance discussing how the war on drugs is a tool of racial oppression.
They dive deep into the war on drugs and racial oppression by discussing how sentencing for crack-cocaine is much harsher than cocaine (while basically the same drug), how NYC’s “stop-and-frisk” program was essentially put in place to put people in jail for cannabis possession, and how Breonna Taylor never would have died if police weren’t looking for drugs. They discuss the tragedy of Elijah McClain and what purpose a lot of police activity really serves, while looking at the “protect ourselves first” fraternity mentality that a lot of these power organizations have and how difficult it can be for a good person to become a whistleblower in those situations.
They also talk about revisiting philosophy through Lenny Gibson and how beneficial it has been to explore that world as more mature people and see connections to psychology, as well as learning the limitations of scientific explanations when dealing with deep, transpersonal experiences. Lastly, they mention their excitement in participating in the re-scheduled Philosophy of Psychedelics conference coming up next year in England.
Notable quotes
“I stopped doing research on near-death experiences at some point, where I was just like, ‘I’m sick of reading about [how] these are just physiological reflexes and responses within the brain, maybe the lack of oxygen, or all the different neurochemistry that’s going on within the brain at the time of dying…’ There’s something so interesting about that experience, that no matter how much mechanistic information I have, there’s still something there that eats at me… kind of like this lore… the lore of beauty and life kind of unfolding. It’s oriented towards growth and beauty, and I guess that’s what some of these experiences have really taught me- and it is that lore to grow, evolve, and move towards something. And I think when I try to put some sort of biological explanation to it, it almost halts that and says ‘that experience doesn’t really mean that much.’” -Kyle
“Science has limited capacity to help people with meaning-making.” -Joe
“Do we have enough spiritual literacy? Do we have an inclusive enough cosmology to handle all of these cases? …Are psychologists willing to call in an exorcist of some kind? Or some sort of priest [who] can handle this kind of thing? …I tend to think shareholders might be a little creeped out if publicly traded companies are talking about spirits and entities. Are we ready for that?” -Joe
“What does it mean that you have to put somebody in prison for 10 years for a non-violent offense, as a cop? Like, you pulled someone over, you found some drugs in their car, and now they go to prison. And their life is essentially ruined. And you made the decision to become a police officer and uphold laws. Like, can you sit with that and be ok with that, as an individual? Why do you think drugs are so bad that locking another person up in a cage for years and years and years is ok? …[They say], ’because they have meth or fentanyl, they are the most dangerous people out there!’ What about the rapists and murderers? What about drunk drivers that could kill 20 kids in one night? Why are you spending time on drug offenses when there are rapists out there? There are tons of untested rape kids at all these police departments across the country.”- Joe
In this episode, Joe speaks with award-winning musician, producer, transpersonal guide, shamanic practitioner, and certified graduate of Grof Transpersonal Training, Byron Metcalf.
They discuss Metcalf’s path from being a Nashville-based studio musician (who played on Kenny Rogers’ “The Gambler”) to a “midlife correction” of taking a class with Stan Grof and Jacquelyn Small leading to him discovering holotropic breathwork: a whole new world he had never seen before that perfectly suited his musical mind.
They discuss how Metcalf works with music- from recording and producing to making mixes for sessions, how different types of music work better for different types of sessions, and how important it is to think about the flow of a mix and the transitions and mixing between songs in how it relates to the journey of the people listening- when does up-tempo music work best in comparison to more heart-centered, emotional music? When is more shamanic, percussion-based music more appropriate? He also talks about the effect of people’s projections in these sessions and a funny story of when he thought he heard Christmas music during a session, using Spotify for session music, streaming vs. downloading, 320kbps vs. 24-bit recordings, creating music sober vs. under the influence, the effectiveness of binaural beats, and co-creating retreats with clients to fit their custom personal and musical needs.
Notable Quotes
“It just… changed my life. I mean, literally, just like, ‘what is this? How is this even possible to just do some deep breathing and listen to this incredible music?’ …What it reminded me of was a psychedelic experience. And so I immediately saw the potential in it… And of course… how that model uses music was kind of just a perfect fit for me.”
“You’re doing your own work. The best healers or the best facilitators, therapists, whatever- are the ones who really have done their own work, and in fact, I don’t trust anyone [who] hasn’t.”
“I was really fortunate that Stan would enlist me to do music sometimes at these bigger events- the Insight and Opening where Stan and Jack Kornfield would combine the holotropic breathwork with Vipassana meditation for a week. And it was groups of 200, and so you got 100 people breathing at one time and it’s [a] pretty fantastic energy field as you could imagine. And just seeing- observing what happens for people and to people and through people, still- when I think about it and start describing some of the things that I’ve witnessed and observed and experienced, it almost sounds like [I’m] making this stuff up… It’s like trying to explain a psychedelic experience to someone that’s never had it before… There’s no way you can really convey that. So it has to be experienced.”
“There’s something higher, bigger- that’s at work here that we want to make contact with and surrender to. So that’s the goal. And sometimes if people are projecting on the music, not liking the music- sometimes changing it would be good. Other times, not. Because maybe it is bringing up a great piece for them. And [they say] “I don’t like this! I don’t like this!” Of course that’s projecting onto the music. What’s going on underneath that?”
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about topics in the news including what psychedelic companies owe to the community (both indigenous people and the underground psychedelic world), psilocybin-like drug alternatives for treating depression and the many reasons newer companies are trying to remove the psychedelic part of the medicine, and Dennis McKenna’s recent appointing to New Wave Holdings’ psychedelic research advisory board and what that says about the current climate of corporations moving into this space.
They discuss the dangers of “sponsored content”-like corporate messages, the malleability of laws and power of lobbyists and interest groups, and how manipulation is faster and quieter than ever before, while many big decisions are being made by people crippled from decades of unseen cultural baggage. And why are companies trying to remove the psychedelic side of medicine? Is it solely for profit, or could it be because there are so many in need that streamlining the process or using these medicines differently than we’re used to in this space would be beneficial to the most people?
Lastly, they talk about the importance of making the right connections and having the right arguments and really asking yourself what you’re trying to do when engaging with those who disagree with you- are you just trying to be right, or are you trying to make a change?
Additionally, Joe shares an important harm reduction story and tip, and gives the news that Psychedelics Today recently surpassed 1 million downloads. Thank you for the support!
Notable Quotes
“Is the only box you can fit in, like ‘I want a career, a home and a family’? And everything else doesn’t matter? Is that it? I think it’s more complicated than that. We’re not just atomic units, like nuclear families. We’re far more interconnected than that, and it’s kind of irresponsible to ignore that.” -Joe
“Big businesses end up creating these systems that we all seem to rely on over time and to some extent, I think we appreciate the convenience. If that crumbled, what would our life look like? Could we tolerate living more locally, doing things on a much smaller scale? …What would that look like in a world where the government didn’t give huge bailouts to these big companies? Our world would drastically change, and could we shift?” -Kyle
“Maybe a thing to just keep in the back of our minds when we’re hearing all this stuff about new pharma companies is that pharma is not guaranteed money for these people. Pharma is still a gamble. Unless they really nail it, they could go bankrupt in a couple years, or just have earnings way lower than they hoped for. So it’s big money, it’s big bets, and they’re betting on big returns, so they kind of have to go out on a limb and stay stuff like this. But the fact that Forbes put that out- that psilocybin could be toxic- seems irresponsible to me… To me, this kind of looks like sponsored content. Or it’s just like, ‘how do we get these corporations to talk to us and be comfortable, so we have to promise fluff.’ Or, is this organized propaganda?” -Joe
“Some of the people in this space are just getting so nasty that a lot of people are just saying, ‘nah, I’m out, later. I’ll go watch Seinfeld reruns for the next couple years while this shit plays out.’ Are you moving allies away, or are you bringing allies closer to you? Think about that. You want more allies. What’s the best tool? Sweetness. Anger, bitterness, spite- those are things that make people want to go away from you. How effective do you want to be, why do you want to be effective, and what tools are you willing to employ to be effective?” -Joe
In this episode, Joe Interviews Dosed filmmakers Tyler Chandler and Nick Meyers, as well as the subject of their documentary, Adrianne.
Nick and Tyler tell the story of how they went from really knowing very little about the psychedelic healing movement to becoming advocates solely from a panicked call from Adrianne.
Adrianne speaks of her journey from opiate addiction and severe depression to trying mushrooms and eventually learning she needed Iboga and a community around her to really fight her way out of a life she no longer wanted to live.
They touch on the costs of Iboga compared to other rehabilitation methods, the often glazed-over dangers of Iboga, the effectiveness of psilocybin against opioid withdrawal, anxiety in the western world, holotropic breathwork as a safer method towards healing, the power of the Pixar movie, Inside Out, and why it would be beneficial for young viewers to watch Dosed.
Notable Quotes
“I have gotten sober and detoxed many, many, many times and not stayed sober, so obviously while the physical withdrawals are completely excruciating and definitely a big barrier to getting sober, there’s really something more to recovery than that, and that’s that kind of spiritual experience or awakening. And the psychedelic component is really important to that and I feel like that’s what’s contributed to me… not only getting sober but staying sober.” -Adrianne
“The real problem is that… people are forced to make these decisions and take these risks because something that has been known for 40 years to have this wonderful effect on opioid addicts is somehow something that nobody knows about and isn’t legalized.” -Nick Meyers
“No matter how you choose to recover or what you do to get sober and stay sober, having a community around you and staying connected with people is so, so important.” -Adrianne
“I definitely had a lot of discomfort just learning to… be still or be with myself and not have an escape. That’s part of recovery and it’s very uncomfortable. It takes time to get used to that. I was always used to having some kind of coping mechanism that took me out of myself, that just helped me not feel uncomfortable or whatever negative feeling I was feeling. So that’s always a challenge and there’s no shortcuts to that- you do have to just learn to be in your body and feel feelings, which I did not like very much. But, you know, it gets easier over time.” -Adrianne
“Everybody is so scared of just saying… ‘this is something that teens should do’ because nobody wants to have anything bad happen and then have it get traced back to them. But look at the realities of what teens are going through with… the rampant alcohol and other drugs, and… vaping and smoking and all the other vices- prescription medications, everything that’s available. And there’s like, no guidance, no supervision a lot of the time… What we’re doing right now isn’t working. Can I dare say it? It would be better if there were rites of passage with psychedelics in controlled settings with proper set, setting and dose with young people, because it really helps you recontextualize and reframe things in your mind.” -Nick Meyers
After many years of prescription medications failed her, a suicidal woman turns to underground healers to try and overcome her depression, anxiety, and opioid addiction with illegal psychedelic medicine such as magic mushrooms and iboga. Adrianne’s first dose of psilocybin mushrooms catapulted her into an unexpected world of healing where plant medicines are redefining our understanding of mental health and addiction.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and discuss topics in the media including the usefulness of brain activity scans and the idea that “brain does not equal mind,” how language can shift the social narrative to or away from stigma when describing substance use, and psilocybin testing in mice and when we might see psilocybin start being prescribed.
They spend a lot of time on the questions everyone is asking right now- what changes can we make that will help the most people and give the oppressed what they need? What tangible changes do the oppressed actually want? What should the role of police look like, either compared to or in conjunction with social work or therapy?
They look at these questions with hope, but through a realistic lens- disasters, illness and even global warming always affects the poor and oppressed more than those in power. And historically, people have always shown a natural tendency to want to hold others down. What is the real purpose behind what those in power do (for example, outlawing encrypted texting or arresting someone for doing drugs)? Are they trying to encourage only specific conversations they’re comfortable with?
Notable Quotes
So what really can we do, and what specifically can those with white privilege do? The answer there is to find where your voice is most effective, and to have those tough conversations. “Find those inarguable points. Don’t let the media steer your narrative. Major media outlets want you to talk about certain things. Don’t do that. Find out what you think is most important and most helpful to discuss with the people you’re around. Where do you have the most influence?” -Joe
“How can we… shift the narrative there to help people heal instead of… putting them in this lifelong box of ‘you’ll never heal from this because you have this disorder and this disease’? I’m always on the side of healing [rather] than trying to completely pathologize experiences.” -Kyle
“It sounds nice to say that we want to eliminate violence, we want to eliminate racism, we want to eliminate rape- all these really bad things. But how long have those things been with us? At least 14,000 years, I think. What’s it going to really take to totally reprogram the human genome- the human mind- to transition to this ideal? Is it possible? I don’t know… I want to see these police held accountable, I want to see… criminals in the government go to jail. But it’s kind of the nature of these institutions. They have this monopoly on violence that was granted to them a long time ago, and there’s no real recourse. They’ve got way bigger budgets than any of us as individuals or gangs have, much more training, much better gear… I don’t totally see a great path out.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode, Kyle and Joe interview Kwasi Adusei, Nurse Practitioner, and board member of Psychedelics Today. In the show, they talk about the root of protesting, privilege, the country’s leadership, the importance of this conversation and ways to support the Black Lives Matter movement.
Show Notes
About Kwasi
It’s difficult for all groups of people to talk about, not everybody is coming from the same place on this topic
Kwasi says it’s wonderful to see so many people rising up to fight against injustice
These things have been happening for a long time, and it speaks to the history in America
Kwasi grew up in The Bronx, and it wasn’t uncommon to hear about deaths, gun violence, etc
Kwasi went to receive his Doctorate, but reflects on his time in middle school and barely graduating
It wasn’t because of him and his willingness to learn, it was because of his environment
The high school he went to is now shut down because of the low graduation rates
The Perfect Storm
Kyle says he wonders why this time in particular, why this is impacting the nation and the world more than anything else going on
Kwasi sees it as a two part thing, it’s a snowball effect, the anger around these instances continue to grow
The other part of it, has a lot to do with the Coronavirus, people are losing their jobs, having trouble paying rent, feeding their family, etc
They are losing their outlets to grieve, and they go through it for weeks
Then something like this happens and it results in rage
Making the Right Statement
It’s important to look to the family of George Floyd, they are angry at the violence coming out of the protests
Some people believe that the anger that people are showing when damaging property, is causing the same anger when lives are lost
But some people are capitalizing on chaos, burning buildings and bringing destruction, and it takes away from the message of changing the systemic issues, it perpetuates it
It brings the spotlight to those who are inviting hate by graffiti-ing, lighting buildings on fire, ec
The conversation needs to prove that protests are making a statement
Poor Leadership
We have a President that is enforcing law and order to remove peaceful protesters in a violent way
The leadership we have is very important, how crisis is approached is really important
“How [as a leader] do you calm the nerves of people, while getting to the root of the problem?” – Kwasi
We have a lot of people that support Trump, and he doesn’t do the best job at leading and supporting the country in a respectful way, especially in these times
Joe mentioned videos out there of undercover cops breaking windows that are ‘bait’ to bring in stronger forces to shut down the protests
“We should all be asking ourselves, if I care about the messaging, how do I use my sphere of influence to change things?” – Kwasi
There are so many roots to this problem
How much are we using to fund the police force versus funding education, community services, public health?
How to Support
Joe says this platform (Psychedelics Today) is to create a space for people to give back, have an impact, share stories and support movements like this
Kwasi says to look locally to give your time, money and support
He says look to get involved in local elections, making a small difference in your local community, makes a difference on the larger scale when multiplied
Stay informed for yourself and share that information with everyone else
People are thinking heavily right now “where are my tax dollars being spent?”
Instead of extra funding to the local police force, you can vote for that increase to go toward something else like education
Having the Conversation
Our voice is our vote
Many people who listen to the Psychedelics Today podcast are probably privileged
The psychedelic movement is (and if not, should be) connected to so many other movements like BLM
Psychedelics Today is mainly about social justice, changing the narrative on drug policy, the drug war, psychedelic exceptionalism and access
Kwasi says that for those who have acknowledged their privilege, not to just keep themselves in the pillar of ‘because I support the psychedelic movement and its connected to the BLM movement, I’ve done enough’
He encourages becoming an ally of the BLM movement, as well as any other movement
Privilege
Being a spiritual and privileged person, you have even more time to sit and process and think about all of this, especially when it’s not affecting you
It’s difficult to analyze one’s own privilege
Kwasi says he went on a medical mission to Ghana, where he was born
Going back and seeing what the lifestyle was like there, it shifted a lot in him to understand his own privilege
He had the privilege of coming to America, receiving an education, etc
Because of his education, he is asking himself how to give back
Making Change through Action
If you’re going to voice your support, that voice needs follow up with actions
Actions like donating to groups, educating yourself on local authority measures, voting, etc
Sometimes an organization’s agenda isn’t always aligned with what the people want
Kwasi says that he had a few people randomly venmo him money and it offended him
He doesn’t want money, he wants change to be made in other ways
He says for those looking to help, ask first and see what ways those who have been oppressed want to see the change and be supported
“We can all be change makers, and all make a change in this world” – Kwasi
Final Thoughts
Kwasi wants to bring mental health into communities of people of color
Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Marie Brown: Inspired by Octavia Butler’s explorations of our human relationship to change, Emergent Strategy is radical self-help, society-help, and planet-help designed to shape the futures we want to live.
13th: An in-depth look at the prison system in the United States and how it reveals the nation’s history of racial inequality.
I Am Not Your Negro: Explores the history of racism in the United States through Baldwin’s reminiscences of civil rights leaders Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King Jr., as well as his personal observations of American history.
Ways to take action; Donate to victim funds
Official George Floyd Memorial Fund: These funds will also go towards the funeral and burial costs along with the counseling and legal expenses for his loved ones. A portion will go towards the Estate of George Floyd for the benefit and care of his children and their educational fund.
Ways to take action; Donate to organizations
The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund: the NAACP Legal Defense works on advancing the goals of racial justice and equality by protecting those that are most vulnerable in society. Their work includes court cases that work for a fairer justice system, increasing graduation rates among African American students, protecting voters across the nation, and decreasing disproportionate incarceration and sentencing rates.
Campaign Zero: The organization uses data to inform policy solutions that aim to ends police brutality. Their vision is to create a better world by “limiting police interventions, improving community interactions, and ensuring accountability.”
About Kwasi Adusei
Kwasi dedicates his work in the psychedelic movement to altering the stigma in mainstream channels by promoting the science, the healing potential of psychedelics, and civic engagement. Kwasi is a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner and graduated from the University at Buffalo. He is the founder of the Psychedelic Society of Western New York and project manager for Psychonauts of the World, an initiative to share meaningful psychedelic stories, with the ultimate goal of publishing them in a book as an avenue to raise money for psychedelic research. He is also one of the administrators for the Global Psychedelic Network, a conglomerate of psychedelic groups and individuals from around the world. Born in Ghana and raised in the Bronx, New York, Kwasi hopes to bring psychedelic therapy to communities of color.
“There is something about the core of this experience that opens people up to the great mystery of what it is that we don’t know.” -Roland R. Griffiths, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine
It is well-established that mystical experiences have historically played a pivotal role in indigenous shamanism and world religions (the miracles surrounding Moses’ burning bush and Jesus’ baptism). What is less well-known and quite unexpected is the discovery that mystical experiences are the catalyst for healing in contemporary psychedelic research.
Both the Johns Hopkins and NYU studies of the impact of psilocybin on cancer patients found that “In both trials, the intensity of the mystical experience described by patients correlated with the degree to which their depression and anxiety decreased.”
In other words, research scientists have consistently occasioned mystical experiences ̶ “flights of the soul” traditionally thought to be beyond the scope of empirical science ̶ in clinical settings by administering high-dose synthetic psilocybin. Furthermore, it turns out that these experiences hold the key to positive patient outcomes in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. Let this enigma sink in for a moment.
Three Seminal Studies
In the 1960s urban legends began circulating, claiming that psychedelics could allow intrepid trippers to meet spirit guides, to travel to other dimensions, and even to know God. In fact, the new science of psychedelics was in part inspired by the mystical experiences of early psychonauts: Grof’s cosmic consciousness revelations on LSD in Prague; Harner’s near-death journey on ayahuasca in the Amazon; and Leary’s mind-expanding awakening on psilocybin mushrooms in Cuernavaca, Mexico, to name but a few. Over time, the ability of psychedelics to generate authentic mystical experiences was confirmed in three seminal studies.
Stanislav Grof, MD, PhD
The first, the Miracle of Marsh Chapel (also called the “Good Friday Experiment”), was a psychedelic research experiment carried out by Walter N. Pahnke under the auspices of Leary’s Harvard Psilocybin Project. On Good Friday 1962, Pahnke randomly divided twenty volunteer Protestant divinity students into two groups assembled in a small room in the basement of Marsh Chapel. In this controlled double-blind study, half the students received capsules containing thirty milligrams of psilocybin and the other half received a large dose of niacin (vitamin B3) as a placebo. The results were compelling.Almost all members of the group receiving psilocybin reported profound mystical experiences.
As Pahnke reports, “the persons who received psilocybin experienced to a greater extent than did the controls the phenomena described by our typology of mysticism.” He built a follow-up survey into the research design, which found that six months after the experiment the psilocybin subjects reported persistent positive, and virtually no negative, changes in their attitude and behavior.
The second study showed that the Good Friday Experiment would withstand the test of time and scrutiny by independent reviewers. A 25-year follow-up investigation conducted in 1987 by then-graduate student Rick Doblin, founder of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, documented that “all seven psilocybin subjects participating in the long-term follow-up, but none of the controls, still considered their original experience to have had genuinely mystical elements and to have made a valuable contribution to their personal lives.”Doblin concluded that Pahnke’s research on synthetic psilocybin “cast considerable doubt on the assertion that mystical experiences catalyzed by drugs are in any way inferior to nondrug mystical experiences.”
In assessing Pahnke’s research, Walter H. Clark, recipient of the American Psychological Association’s Award for contributions to the psychology of religion, writes “There are no experiments known to me in the history of the scientific study of religion better designed or clearer in their conclusion than this one.”
A third round of studies initiated more than 40 years after the Good Friday Experiment was conducted at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine under the direction of psychopharmacologist Roland R. Griffiths. In two papers, published in 2006 and 2008, Griffiths empirically demonstrated that psilocybin could regularly result in mystical experiences with lasting benefits for participants. These double-blind studies found that: psilocybin was safe in structured, clinical settings; generated one of the five most meaningful experiences for most participants; and produced improvements in mood and quality of life that lasted more than one year (up to 14 months) after the sessions.
Roland R. Griffiths, PhD
Mystical Experience Questionnaire
Our understanding of the common elements in mystical experience is largely based on the insights of William James (The Varieties of Religious Experience, 1902) and Walter T. Stace (Mysticism and Philosophy, 1960). These elements were refined, validated, and incorporated into a 30-question operational definition of mysticism, the Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ30) utilized in the Johns Hopkins psilocybin studies.
The five common elements of mystical experience are:
Unity/Sacredness – deep sense of unity with all of existence; knowledge that “all is one”; profound sense of reverence.
Positive Mood/Ecstasy – deeply felt sense of well-being; experience of ultimate peace and tranquility; irrepressible feelings of joy and amazement.
Transcendence of Time and Space/Eternity – loss of usual sense of time and space; existing beyond past, present and future; entering in a liminal, mythical dimension.
Authoritative/True Self – ability to know reality beyond the illusion of the senses; encounter with all-knowing divine presence; understanding one’s authentic or true self.
Ineffable/Indescribable – difficulty describing the experience in words; impossibility of adequately communicating it to others.
Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy
Since 2006, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine has been conducting the first research since the 1970s administering psilocybin to human subjects, including studies of personality changes and of psychedelic therapy for treating tobacco/nicotine addiction and cancer-related distress.
In 2016, Johns Hopkins undertook the largest ever study of psilocybin in treating chronic depression and anxiety among patients with life-threatening cancer. In this randomized, double-blind, cross-over trial, 51 patients were given a low placebo-like dose (1-3 mg/70 kg weight) vs. a high dose (22 or 30 mg/kg) in two sessions with a six-month follow-up.
In a Journal of Psychopharmacology article, Roland R. Griffiths, Matthew W. Johnson, and colleagues report that “High-dose psilocybin produced large decreases in clinician- and self-rated measures of depressed mood and anxiety, along with increases in quality of life, life meaning, and optimism, and decreases in death anxiety.” A six-month follow-up study showed that these results were sustained in most of the participants.
Some 70% of the cancer patients rated the high-dose psilocybin sessions as among the top five “most meaningful” and “spiritually significant” life experiences. In addition, their post-session mystical experience scores served as statistically significant predictors of therapeutic efficiency in reducing anxiety and depression.
Source: Matthew W. Johnson, “Psilocybin in the treatment of cancer-associated depression and anxiety,” Powerpoint presentation, Ottawa, 2018
The daughter of one study participant noted that “This opportunity allowed my dad to have vigor in his last couple of weeks of life ̶ vigor that one would think a dying man could not possibly demonstrate. His experience gave my father peace. His peace gives me strength.” These outcomes prompted Griffiths to observe that “It’s very common for people who have profound mystical-type experiences to report very positive changes in attitudes about themselves, their lives, and their relationships with others.” And to exclaim that “As a scientific phenomena, if you can create a condition in which 70 percent of the subjects achieve positive, lasting results…in one or two sessions!”
Guided Imagery-Assisted Psychotherapy
Julie M. Brown, coauthor of this article, is a psychotherapist who for thirty years worked with women’s issues and cancer patients. In her private practice, she utilized a variety of therapeutic modalities, including guided imagery which she studied under her mentor in psychosynthesis.
Guided imagery, also known as visualization, is a technique in which psychotherapists help clients focus on mental images in order to facilitate relaxation, healing, and resolution of life issues. In guided imagery-assisted psychotherapy, a person can call on mental images to improve both emotional and physical health.
Typically, Brown’s cancer patients turned to psychotherapy after conventional treatments (chemotherapy, radiation, pharmaceuticals) failed to reduce or eliminate tumors. By combining guided imagery with a complementary cancer approach, Brown found clients could enter states of mystical experience that empowered both emotional (anxiety, depression) and physical (cancer) self-healing. The profiles and outcomes for three clients are summarized in this table.
Client Profiles and Guided Imagery Therapy Outcomes
Unlike the controlled Johns Hopkins study involving 51 participants, these three case studies were not validated by independent observers nor subjected to methodological controls. Nevertheless, the seminal role of mystical experience in both psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and guided imagery psychotherapy raises important questions.
Comparative Questions for Future Research
In the case of Brown’s guided imagery outcomes with cancer patients, significant questions are:
Can success in healing cancer via guided imagery be validated? Beyond Brown’s anecdotal cancer outcomes have other therapists been able to reduce or eliminate tumors utilizing guided imagery? Could healing have taken place in this context without a strict sugar-free diet, or was it the combination of diet and guided imagery that facilitated remission?
Can psychedelic therapy protocols be integrated into guided imagery therapy? As an experienced psychonaut, Brown recognizes that the ability to administer psilocybin to clients could have significantly shortened the therapeutic healing process, possibly from years to months. Given that clinical trials on psilocybin for treating depression have been given “breakthrough therapy” status by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, what changes in state and federal policies and professional regulations would have to take place so that psychiatrists and psychotherapists could legally integrate psychedelics into more conventional treatment modalities?
In the case of Johns Hopkins psychedelic therapy outcomes with cancer patients, significant questions are:
Can psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy be used not only to alleviate psychological anxiety and depression in terminal cancer patients but also to facilitate physiological healing in cancer patients?
Given the pivotal role of mystical experience in both short-term psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and long-term guided imagery psychotherapy, could psychedelic therapy combined with guided imagery possibly reduce or eliminate tumors in cancer patients, if integrated into a mid-term treatment protocol?
Will long-term, costly psychotherapy eventually be replaced by short-term, more affordable psychedelic psychotherapy? Since short-term psychedelic therapy has achieved positive and sustained outcomes in 70% of the participants, based on one or two high-dose psilocybin sessions administered over several weeks, will it eventually replace long-term psychiatric and psychotherapeutic modalities which require years of treatment and cost thousands of dollars?
How Does Mystical Experience Facilitate Healing?
These rigorous psychedelic therapy studies of psychological stress reduction and anecdotal guided imagery therapy cases of physiological cancer remission suggest that mystical experience can facilitate both mental and physical healing. “How” this healing takes place is the theoretical Holy Grail of the new science of psychedelics.
Our quest to unravel this mystery begins with the insights of four mind explorers: Roland R. Griffiths, grandfather of the psychedelic renaissance; Robin Carhart-Harris, pioneer of psychedelic brain imaging; Stanislav Grof, founder of LSD psychotherapy; and Carl G. Jung, who with Sigmund Freud laid the foundations of modern psychotherapy.
In essence, Griffiths concludes that “the psilocybin experience enables a sense of deeper meaning and an understanding that in the largest frame everything is fine and that there is nothing to be fearful of.” How the brain expands from normal consciousness to encompass this “largest frame” is visually revealed in Carhart-Harris’s magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of the brain’s neural pathways before and after ingesting psilocybin mushrooms. Psychedelics allow us to leave the “brain’s default-mode network,” the brain’s everyday information highways, and travel into areas of the mind only available in expanded states of consciousness, clearing the way for mystical experience.
Carhart-Harris: Brain’s Neural Pathways: Before and After Magic Mushrooms
Source: G. Petri, P. Expert, et. al., “Homological scaffolds of brain functional networks,” Journal of the Royal Society, December 2014
What is the source of this expanded consciousness? Based on guiding thousands of psychedelic sessions, in The Holotropic Mind, Grof reaches this paradigm-shifting conclusion: “I see consciousness and the human psyche as expressions and reflections of a cosmic intelligence that permeates the entire universe and all of existence. We are not just highly evolved animals with biological computers embedded inside our skulls; we are also fields of consciousness without limits transcending time, space, matter, and linear causality.”
Jung’s concept of the “spiritual self” (also called “spiritual consciousness”) embodies knowledge that emerges from these transcendent “fields of consciousness.” Beyond Freud’s three-fold model of the self, comprised of the body, emotions, and intellect, Jung proposes the existence of a “spiritual self.” Through dreams, messages from the spiritual self are brought into awareness. This paper shows that, in addition to appearing in dreams, the authentic spiritual self may emerge through mystical experiences occasioned by psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and guided imagery.
Mystical experiences arise when the doors of perception are flung wide open so that the spiritual self can emerge from the depths of the psyche, empowering us to heal and understand that in the cosmic scheme of things “all is well.”
Grof suggests that “the potential significance of LSD and other psychedelics for psychiatry and psychology was comparable to the value the microscope has for biology or the telescope has for astronomy.” We propose that, just as in astrophysics “dark matter” cannot be directly “detected” but only “implied” by gravitational effects, so in psychology, mystical experience cannot be easily “accessed” but can be regularly “occasioned” through psychedelics. Hidden from ordinary consciousness, mystical experience manifests from the dark matter of the mind.
Hopefully, these reflections on the role of mystical experience in psychotherapy will inspire further exploration of this unique phenomena that holds a key to health and well-being.
Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist and Julie M. Brown, M.A., LMHC, is a psychotherapist. They are coauthors of The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity, 2016.
Undoubtedly, psychedelics are valuable tools for self-understanding, transformation, and healing, enabling us to peer into our inner workings and understand the world around us in new ways. By nature, psychedelics are destabilizing as they facilitate non-ordinary states of consciousness, catapulting us outside the bounds of our everyday perceptions. They heal us by disrupting our normative flow of consciousness leading to a multitude of insights ranging from the somatically strange to the mystically ineffable.
But, psychedelics and the realizations they enable will not necessarily change your life if you are not committed to working with the experienceafterwards. This step is known as “psychedelic integration” and it involves chewing on our experiences, digesting any insights, and taking practical steps to implement those insights as positive change.
Psychedelic researchers and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapists have long considered integration a key component in psychedelic healing. In fact, they place major emphasis on post-experience “integrative follow-up sessions” as a scientific approach to aftercare. Many believe that integration protocols and strategies play a crucial role in positive long-term therapeutic outcomes, and some even argue that the value of integration is greater than the psychedelic sessions themselves.
What Does Psychedelic Integration Mean in Practical Terms?
Going on a psychedelic trip is a lot like physical travel. If you’ve ever gone backpacking or traveled for an extended period of time, you will know that returning home can often come as a major shock to the system, sometimes taking weeks—months, even—to re-adjust to our former lives.
Similar to travel, psychedelic experiences can also shift our perceptions about the world, pushing us outside our comfort zones and into self-realization. Returning to our regular work-life patterns can be psychologically jarring, as we find ourselves irrevocably changed whilst everything we left behind remains the same. Thus, reshaping our lives to mirror the inward changes we’ve undergone can be profoundly challenging.
The psychedelic experience produces a spectrum of insights, ranging from personal to transpersonal to ecological. Sometimes a person will gain a new perspective on who they are, shifting the landscape around their professional purpose, intimate relationships, and lifestyles.
Psychedelic integration, then, is the process of weaving the practical with the mystical, taking profound, ineffable experiences beyond the temporality of the psychedelic state and grounding them in our day-to-day lives in the form of enduring, positive changes.
In this sense, integration is an active, intentional process where an individual consciously reflects on their psychedelic experience and what it means for them personally. It involves exploring how insights can be translated into bite-sized actionable steps. The personal nature of integration means that an individual needs to find an authentic way of implementing their experience in a way that suits their unique needs and personality.
After an initial revelation, the experience, materials accessed, and insights gained can quickly fade into a dreamlike memory or become psychically compartmentalized, getting lost in the busy pulse of modern life. Thus, it is important to carve out time to consciously work with these experiences.
Integration and the Importance of Pre-Session Intention Setting
Preparation and pre-session intention setting are critical components to integration. Returning to the metaphor of travel, preparing for a psychedelic experience is likened to all the work that goes into preparing for a long-distance trip. We would never go to the airport to catch a flight without the basic essentials: passport, money, a bag with at least the bare necessities, and a destination.
Similarly, setting an intention is akin to having a destination. It can provide a grounding anchor in a psychedelic session, helping guide an individual and give them a lens through which to process insights that arrive post-trip. Integration is unique to each individual — it’s inextricably intertwined with their reason for using psychedelics in the first place.
In the cult classic, The Psychedelic Experience, former Harvard researchers Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner, and Richard Alpert write: “In planning a session, the first question to be decided is ‘what is the goal?’” Whether your intention is to heal from a traumatic experience, overcome addiction, deepen your connection to nature, or examine a specific aspect of yourself, it is important to know what you’re aiming for.
According to clinical psychologist, psychedelic integration therapist and author of The Psychedelics Integration Handbook, Dr. Ryan Westrum, psychedelic integration is a continuous process similar to an infinity wheel in that “future stories will be cultivated, supported and benefitted if you are thinking about them prior.”
Another crucial element of preparation involves tending to your set and setting. “Set” generally refers to a person’s pre-session mindset. However, it can also include both immediate and long-range states of mind, covering everything from fears, hopes, and expectations about the session to personal history and enduring personality traits. The better the preparation, the more equipped an individual is to integrate their experiences.
The “setting” is the container of the experience. It factors into account when and where the experience will take place. In The Psychedelic Experience, the description of “setting” includes a temporal dimension, encouraging individuals planning for a psychedelic session to set aside up to three days to process their insights, so there’s “sufficient time for reflection and meditation.” The text cautions that returning to work too hastily will likely “blur the clarity of the vision and reduce the potential for learning.”
Similarly, Dr. Westrum advises:
“One could argue that the first hours and the days that immediately follow the psychedelic experience are the most crucial when it comes to integration. In general, our modern-day, contemporary lifestyles are so hectic, and we find ourselves constantly working, traveling and moving. It is important if you are considering taking a psychedelic, to take the proper time to do so, more appropriately thinking of it as a two-day experience. We need to carve essential time out to reflect and digest what happened, using the second day for purposes of integration.”
When considering healthy integration practices, it is essential for an individual to carve out the time and space needed for processing. Individuals are generally advised to avoid making any major life changes in the weeks that follow a psychedelic experience, and instead take time to rest, digest and distill insights before initiating dramatic changes.
Integration, Intuition and “Inner Healing Intelligence”
The concept of psychedelic integration is closely linked to “inner healing intelligence,” a notion originally developed by Stanislav Grof, and later refined by Michael Mithoefer, Clinical Investigator and Medical Director at the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS).
The notion of “inner healing intelligence” is built on the premise that nature is intelligent by design. For example, when we injure ourselves physically, bruising a knee or cutting a finger, our body automatically initiates its own sophisticated healing process. Just like a seed contains within it all the knowledge to become a tree, humans have an innate capacity to heal when they are in the right environment. Similarly, the psyche has its own innate healing capacity to extend towards wholeness. In the integration process, individuals are encouraged to connect with their inner healing intelligence and take responsibility for mending.
The Emerging Field of Psychedelic Integration Therapy
With the psychedelic renaissance in full swing and the resurgence of research illuminating the therapeutic potential of hallucinogens, it’s no surprise that the public opinion of psychedelics is beginning to shift.
But, the stigma around psychedelics still exists. For this reason, individuals who undergo psychedelic experiences outside of a psychotherapeutic or clinical paradigm meet challenges upon reentering their day-to-day lives. The reason is that they usually have no one to openly share the experience with and no available resources to help sift through the intricacies of the trip.
Sometimes individuals need to reach out for professional support in order to digest the experience properly. Unfortunately, most mainstream therapists aren’t equipped to have a constructive conversation about psychedelics, however. As a result, many patients feel reluctant to talk about their experience for fear of being judged.
This gap in the mental health system paired with the growing public interest in psychedelics creates a higher demand for psychedelic therapists. As a result, the number of professional integration therapists, coaches, and specialists is increasing. The newly growing subdiscipline of psychedelic integration has risen to prominence, creating a bridge between traditional psychotherapeutic practice and the “psychedelic underground” in which the two cross-pollinate.
Many individuals who have not followed the institutional track to become an accredited mental health professional are emerging as practitioners within this space. But, what makes an individual qualified to be an integration expert? To an extent, it seems that a bona fide psychedelic experience takes greater precedence than formal certifications.
In choosing an integration therapist or coach to work with, integration expert Dr. Ryan Westrum expressed his concern over individuals falling into the wrong hands:
“Neo-integration therapists and coaches that don’t have a psychological background or a deep understanding of the world of consciousness scare me. There is beauty if calling something a ‘spiritual emergence,’ but if you start to recognize a person has suicidal ideation or chronic depression that didn’t break, you need healthy psychiatric and psychological support.”
He is careful to emphasize that beyond having the training to deal with such difficult scenarios, he believes “relationship is number one” and that ultimately “there needs to be a relationship established that feels safe, is psychedelic friendly, without judgment and is willing to hear where you need to go.”
Beyond psychotherapeutic and research paradigms, psychedelic integration is beginning to take root in the mainstream. Spanning across the US, there is now a variety of public integration circles emerging in the form of in-person and online groups. Psychedelic integration circles provide individuals who cannot afford therapy or private coaching a low-cost alternative. It gives them a judgment-free space to talk about their experience and provides access to a community that otherwise might not be there.
Recognizing the growing need for psychedelic literacy in mental health, Psychedelics Today founders, Kyle Buller and Joe Moore, created an online course “Navigating Psychedelics For Clinicians and Therapists” especially directed at healthcare professionals looking to deepen their knowledge of psychedelic research and to support their clients with psychedelic integration. The next eight-week online course is currently open for enrollment, scheduled to begin on May 7, 2020.
Is Integration Always Necessary?
I asked Dr. Westrum for his thoughts on the importance of integration after a psychedelic experience. Is it always necessary? He cautioned:
“It is never that you’re not taking enough medicine or not having enough experience. Rather, it is that you aren’t processing it appropriately. In 90% of cases, you look at people’s behaviors and lifestyles only to find they’re still stuck, they’re not taking what they are learning through psychedelic experiences and integrating it.”
It can be helpful to envision integration as existing on a spectrum or continuum. Four days of consecutive ayahuasca ceremonies will likely require more time for integration than a microdosing experience. Even if we feel that we don’t have anything that needs integrating, Dr. Westrum urges us to “at least process the experience at the level of ruling it out,” emphasizing that “everything deserves to be integrated into our lives.”
About the Author
Jasmine Virdi is a freelance writer, editor, and proofreader. She currently works for the fiercely independent publishing company Synergetic Press, where her passions for ecology, ethnobotany and psychoactive substances converge. Jasmine’s goal as an advocate for psychoactive substances is to raise awareness of the socio-historical context in which these substances emerged in order to help integrate them into our modern-day lives in a safe, grounded, and meaningful way.
Throughout my twenties, I spent a lot of time wondering what the meaning of my life was. I was reading Hermann Hesse, Viktor Frankl, and other similar authors, but I couldn’t quite connect those books to my own life. I wanted to know what it was like to experientially engage in a vocation. Reminiscing on this struggle, I was motivated to write an article on my experiences thus far with psychedelic integration, share what has been helpful to me, and provide insight to those either wondering about this practice, studying it, or actually beginning it.
My path towards becoming a licensed psychotherapist was not direct, as I did not receive my clinical license until my late 50s! I can now see, with that lovely 20/20 hindsight, that everything I did led me here, with valuable insight that I would not have had if my path had been more direct. I studied food, nutrition, and painting, had children, taught yoga, and became a certified Ayurvedic counselor before landing on my current path.
My Ayurvedic practice began to really crystalize my direction. Ayurveda is a science of life and embodies the mind, body, and spirit to integrate a lifestyle most suited for each individual. Much of my Ayurvedic practice had to do with clients’ emotional states. As such, I became more focused on the mind. This led me to a conversation with the dean of a nearby university, and shortly after, I enrolled in a Master’s program that had not even been an idea in my conscious awareness the year before.
Plant medicine was not on my radar at the time of my schooling. This path evolved through witnessing the healing that close friends and family experienced. Having had my fair share of psychedelic experiences as a young adult living through the ‘70s, I was always comfortable with the experience but did not yet see it as a healing therapy. After going directly to the source again and having my own experience with this new idea in mind, I now KNEW this was an unprecedented healing modality. I have since expanded my mindset to welcome plant medicines/psychedelic experiences as one of the most effective healing therapies that exists.
For thousands of years, people have been using psychedelic substances to further their understanding of themselves and the universe. Sadly, most of these medicines have been labeled as Schedule 1 drugs in the USA, though this is changing with several FDA clinical trials currently taking place. These research trials are studying the efficacy of using psilocybin as a treatment for depression, and MDMA as a treatment for PTSD. The trials for MDMA are in Phase 3, and the hope is to have this as a valid form of therapy by 2021. In the meantime, outside the US, there are countries where plant medicine is legal now.
Psychedelic Integration is designed to assist those seeking support in connection with psychedelic experiences. Individuals who have had difficult experiences can benefit from a better understanding of the often-challenging feelings stirred up by psychedelics; while those who have found the use of psychedelics to be a positive method of gaining insight can use supportive therapy to bolster and integrate that knowledge into their daily lives (http://www.ingmargorman.com/psychedelic-therapy). This part of the process, before and after the experience itself, is such an integral component of the whole journey. Working together, the therapist helps the client to understand what may happen, guiding them toward the safest set and setting (this phrase describes the physical, mental, social and environmental context that an individual brings into a psychedelic experience), and then fully integrates the experience afterward, perhaps even for months or years to come. We all have the capacity to understand our own selves, but having a guide makes sense of a plant medicine journey or psychedelic experience leads to deeper healing and a deeper understanding of self. I like to think of it like this: if plant medicine is a teacher, then an integrative therapist is a tutor, helping the traveler understand the teachings.
There are 3 categories in which I have been offering integration to clients, not one necessarily more prevalent than any of the others.
Category One: “My husband is freaking out! He did Bufo 3 days ago and he is sitting on the floor of the shower, shaking and crying… he can’t seem to come out of it.”
Category Two: “I found your name on an integration list and I need to talk to someone about an experience I had…”
Category Three: “I’ve been thinking a lot about going to do ayahuasca (or psilocybin, etc). I’ve read so much about it but I feel scared. I’ve never done anything like this before.”
All names and details are changed to protect privacy as I proceed to describe a sample of each category:
Category one:
I received a call from Ron, who was clearly in distress, evidenced by the urgency and desperation in his voice. He was begging me to see him (he lived 2 hours away). He had experienced a powerful bufo journey (the strongest known natural psychedelic on planet earth, tryptamine 5-MeO-DMT, produced by Bufo Alvarius, a toad of the Sonoran Desert). I found out that he was not an inexperienced partaker in psychedelics, as he had gone on an ayahuasca retreat for a week the year before. Regardless, the bufo experience floored him. Until I was able to get him in to see me, I instructed him to go to the beach, assisted by his friend, and sit on the sand, feeling the sand under his hands and legs, and breathe in the healing salty air, using a mantra of “I am safe, I am right here” repetitively. This mantra was to ground him to the here and now. I also had him eat grounding (comforting) foods, which his friend was able to provide (warm stew, butternut squash, soup, etc.).
He arrived the next morning to my office wrapped in a blanket with sand on his feet, as he was coming straight from his second day of sitting on the beach. He was trembling and he didn’t understand what had happened to him. Having been further informed by his friend, and thankfully, with the knowledge of Dr. Stanislav Grof’s work with “spiritual emergency,” I was able to normalize this intensity for him. He was experiencing past trauma (that he re-lived during his ayahuasca ceremonies the year before), but now he was somatically experiencing it, coming up and out of his body, resulting in uncontrollable shaking. Through his tears, he described his trauma as his body continued to tremble. As a child, Ron had been repeatedly molested by his older brother, and when he went to his mother, she told him he was lying. Confused and traumatized, he left home at 11 years old to stay with a friend, and his mother never came to collect him. I encouraged him to just keep on letting his body tremble- that this was a necessary part of releasing the traumatic experience. I found myself moving closer to him and making sure he felt safe. After giving him the encouragement that this was exactly what needed to happen, and with the support of his loving friends and family, he was eventually able to go home, instead of what normally would have resulted in an ER visit (I have to admit, when he first arrived, I thought I would have to refer him to the ER, but am very thankful that this didn’t happen). His trusted friend kept very close by, physically assuring him that he wasn’t alone and he was safe.
Two of his friends brought him back the next morning. Ron already looked better and was able to articulate more about his experience. He went on to meet with me several more times and has been able to process these very difficult events to the point where they are no longer stuck in his body. He has since described a sense of calm that he couldn’t ever remember feeling.
Because of the knowledge of what each of the particular plant medicines can do and how the body processes trauma, we were able to prevent what could’ve been a very detrimental stay in a psychiatric hospital. This is a very clear example of why integration is so important, and particularly with a trained therapist, with prior experience working in an acute care unit of a psychiatric hospital.
People who reach out for integration are looking to understand their experience and process it through their own history and trauma. They’ve turned to plant medicines or psychedelics because what they have been doing hasn’t been working and they’re not happy with how they’ve been living. They have not been able to get through the walls they built to keep them safe growing up (but no longer serve them as an adult).
In a therapeutic environment, there are no “bad trips.” The experience referenced above may appear to be frightening, but as we can see, it was very intense, and yet, very healing.
Category Two:
As for Category Two, I’ll share an example I had with Paul. He called to tell me that he wanted an appointment because he had a psilocybin experience that left him feeling happy for the first time since he could remember. He had been on the verge of suicide many times for the 3 years prior, seeking different forms of therapy and medication to no avail. He could not get out of a deep sadness and numbness that he felt, no matter what he tried. Plant medicine was a last resort, and in his words, if it didn’t work, he was done.
He tentatively arrived in my office and described this feeling of peace and love that he was somewhat desperate to hold on to. This integrative therapy evolved in a way that I didn’t expect, because over the course of a year of our work together, Paul went through some physical symptoms that derailed him for quite some time, but was so closely connected to the fear that kept him from experiencing any joy in his life. As he came to realize that these symptoms were connected to past trauma, and as he realized that he was, indeed, a very sensitive person (this was met with almost disdain when it was suggested in the early stages of therapy), he truly began to heal and come alive. This is an example of what the “spectrum of trauma” means. Paul’s repressed grief had a lot to do with his intense emotions around the death of a beloved pet when he was 11 years old. He was shamed for his grief by family members and peers. By pushing down these feelings of grief, coupled with this new shame, his capacity to feel was also pushed down, and depression became his norm. While this trauma may not appear to be nearly as intense as Ron’s trauma, it affected Paul to the point where he had disconnected from himself, and ultimately, didn’t think life was worth living, although he had no understood connection to the repressed grief at the time.
The psilocybin journey showed him what was possible, but it did not enable him to live a happy life until he got underneath his “firewall” (described below) and worked at it. There was a lot of grief for him to process, and tears came along with shame until it moved its way out. Today, I can happily say that smiling is the norm for him, and spontaneity is part of his daily life. He embraces his sensitivity and sees how it has become a gift to him. He worked hard to get there.
We all have unresolved trauma. Trauma is the response to a deeply distressing or disturbing event that overwhelms an individual’s ability to cope, causes feelings of helplessness, diminishes their sense of self and their ability to feel the full range of emotions and experiences. Some of us have experienced more intense trauma than others, but some of us are more sensitive than others as well. If a disturbing experience led you to disconnect from your true self because what you were feeling was too much, that is the internal impact of trauma. We create a “part” that protects us from this overwhelming emotional pain, assuring us that we will not feel it again. Most of the time, we are completely unaware that we have done this.
These traumas become more clear during integration therapy, as the plant medicine helps to reveal that which we have buried deep in our subconscious. I truly believe that psychedelics/ plant medicine, when used properly, are here to bring us back to our whole self- to show us our own “operating system” that we have created as a result of our experiences, and how there may be some “firewalls” up that are protecting us from pain and keeping us from our true nature. Why would we want to pull down this firewall that has protected us for so long? Because that pain we are protecting is where we are going to find ourselves the most alive. We need to sit with it, feel it, allow it, and finally, let it move its way through us and out. What is depression, but a condition where we feel disconnected from self and others, where nothing will make us feel better because we have lost our way? What is anxiety, but an unprocessed fear that we are not going to be ok? We may have felt like we couldn’t survive this emotional pain as a child (emotional pain can be very intense and confusing for a child, and none of us are exempt from this), but we need to know that we will survive it now. This is also what integration therapy is about- having a safe place to be reminded that you will be okay now. You are safe. You can learn to witness and feel at the same time, thus allowing the firewalls to gently move out of the way.
Category Three:
Finally, I’ll touch on Category Three. Terry called to tell me that she wanted to take psilocybin but was very scared to. Her husband and brother had both taken it and assured her that they would be there for her. Her motivation for wanting to do this was to help understand and heal her Misophonia, a condition meaning “hatred of sound,” which manifested in her becoming highly irritated at many sounds, with the sound of someone chewing or sniffing causing her the most distress. She loved her husband and children, but these sounds, even coming from them, created anger inside of her, which in turn, stressed her out even more.
We talked about some of her history and when the Misophonia began. She described overhearing a conversation between her parents that involved her father being unfaithful with a man. Terry loved her dad, and I believe she did not know what to do with any feelings of anger towards him, and she remembers being really angry at him chewing his food. This wasn’t the first time she thought there was a connection, but she didn’t know how to remove the root of it. We talked about what the set and setting would be like for her journey: music, a mantra she could use as she began preparing for the day, and what her husband could do as her “sitter.”
When we met after her journey, she described feeling so much love and no fear at all. She shared that she had a sure feeling that whatever was going on, there was something inside of her that was going to know how to handle it and know what to do. This was the plant medicine reminding her who she really was. Our subsequent sessions were about connecting with the anger that she was sidestepping and sitting with feeling uncomfortable around that, as she was able to understand that while it wasn’t safe for her at the time to feel anger towards her father, she transferred it to something that did feel safe. Obviously, this was no longer serving her and it was hurting her and her family members. Because of the inner knowing that she received from her experience with psilocybin, she was more easily able to access the anger in our integration sessions afterward, without feeling like she couldn’t handle it. She worked hard through these sessions and in-between, and while the Misophonia isn’t completely gone, she feels it very rarely now, and she is able to easily ride through the irritation.
As a therapist, it is a very rewarding experience to see the recognition in someone’s eyes that “yes, I can handle this and I will be ok.” This concept, called “therapeutic alliance,” allows a client to let go- to begin to trust. Many clients aren’t aware that they don’t trust because they’ve never experienced trust in the first place. They don’t know what it feels like to let go and still feel safe. Somewhere along their road of life, usually in early childhood, the world became an unsafe place to be. This is often due to parents or caregivers unable to see their child’s pain, or not knowing what to do with it, likely due to their own unrealized traumas. The child then learns to do whatever is necessary to survive because their world depends on them burying their intense emotions and “pushing through.” Intense emotions can make someone feel as if they are going to die. The emotion is too big for the child to bear, and often, there are no words to communicate this. If they are not seen by someone who cares, then the child has to figure it out for themself. This is where plant medicine can reveal deep traumas, underneath all of their survival mechanisms, beyond the “firewall.” Of course, there are other methods, but here, we focus on plant medicine.
It takes a great deal of courage (doing something in spite of fear) to put yourself in the hands of a shaman or sitter and enter the unknown. Most clients will say that they were scared but did it anyway.
Another final case I’d like to share: Brian had been addicted to heroin on and off for about 7 years. Many rehabs and detoxes did not accomplish what a 10-day stay at an ibogaine clinic did.
Brian had been on and off with me for about 3 years. We were working on a harm reduction approach away from opiates. This approach involved cannabis and kratom (an extract from a tropical evergreen tree from Southeast Asia, often used to help wean someone off opiates). Brian had already been through Buprenorphine and Methadone enough times to realize they weren’t going to keep him from relapsing back to opiates. The cannabis and kratom approach was up and down, and he still felt desperate. After much talk about ibogaine (ibogaine is a plant-based substance extracted from the iboga shrub, which originates in Africa), he went to a clinic out of the country and was administered ibogaine from a medical doctor. I believe that it is an immense disservice to addicts that ibogaine has not yet been legalized in this country for opiate addiction, although that is a subject for another article (stay tuned!). Two weeks later, he was back in session with me describing his experience, and it was clear that something had truly changed. He was able to see different paths that he took in his life, and how he always had other options. These paths were shown to him in a way that he reports “almost felt like it had rewired my brain. My interest in opiates is just not there”. A year and a half later, still clean from opiates, Brian has been working on creating that trusting relationship with his own self, developing confidence that he can withstand uncomfortable and painful emotions. Without integration, the uncovering of painful emotions could have led back to a relapse.
Thus, integration involves creating that relationship with yourself, dialoguing with that younger version of yourself, and helping your inner child to heal- integrating your OWN self. The word integration is so perfect, because as we are integrating the plant medicine experience, what we are really doing is integrating our true self, beyond all of our ego’s constructions of what was necessary at the time, but no longer serves us in being whole.
What has been most helpful to me as an integrative therapist was my own experiences with plant medicine, particularly ayahuasca. It’s not always easy to “hold space” for some of the pain that is releasing from clients, as the energy can be intense. One of the most important visions I had during an ayahuasca journey in Peru was the night I had a matrix in front of me of all happenings between humans for a long timespan. Certain squares of the matrix would become the focus as I observed specific human mental suffering, abuse, some more benign scenes… some family members and friends I knew… I could move the scene out of the way if it wasn’t something I felt I needed, and focus closer on scenes that were meaningful to me in some ways. I witnessed a scene between a relative and her father that was devastating, as well as several others like this. The reason this was the most important vision for me was I was a silent observer. I was aware of the pain and tragedy, but I wasn’t in pain myself. This is not usually true for me in my daily life, as I feel pain in my own body when someone else is experiencing pain. It has, at times, made it difficult for me as a therapist to hold back tears when a client is in tears, and I have had to momentarily think of something funny to pull me out of this empathic experience. Being able to be aware of the pain in this matrix experience, but not be in pain myself, has helped me tremendously in my practice, as well as with friends and family. I feel less responsible to “fix” it, in a way, because I clearly realize the pain is not mine. This has not made me less empathetic in any way, but it has enabled me to have more clarity. Therapy isn’t about fixing, but helping people to uncover their own guide within; their own inner wisdom. This has become my purpose, to just be a guide in the storm of someone’s life and allow them to see that they’ve known all along who they are, they just need to move their “firewalls” out of the way.
If you are reading this and have been wondering what it might be like to work with people in this capacity, I hope this has been helpful. As Terence McKenna once said, “It’s all about love… making someone else’s existence just a little easier… nothing else matters. I know this now.”
About the Author
Debbie Kadagian became certified as a Holistic Health Practitioner in 2007, specializing in Ayurvedic Health Counseling. She traveled to India to study at the Jiva Institute with Dr. Partap Chauhan. She received her Masters in Social Work from Fordham University and became a licensed clinical social worker. She has worked at inpatient psychiatric hospitals and outpatient treatment centers prior to setting up her private practice. Debbie is also a certified yoga teacher since 2001. Debbie has a true desire to assist people in finding meaning in their lives in order to transcend suffering, addiction, and trauma.
Debbie is the producer of the film, “Healing the Mind: The Synthesis of Ayurveda and Western Psychiatry.”
In today’s episode, Joe and Kyle sit down with Dr. Mike Hart. In the show they talk about Cannabis and Ketamine used as medicine.
3 Key Points:
The main uses for Cannabis are for chronic pain and mental health. CBD is really good for people with inflammation.
When it comes to any psychedelic/plant medicine therapy, it’s all about agency. The power lies within the individual, the therapy and the drug are just tools to help the person obtain the power to heal themselves.
Ketamine is a useful treatment for depression. It’s instant, a patient can take it and it’s effective right away, where typical antidepressants may take 4-6 weeks to kick in.
Show Notes
About Dr. Mike Hart
He attended Med school on Saba Island
Then he came to Ontario where he did his residency
8 months after practicing he started prescribing cannabis
He got into cannabis because it’s a great alternative to opioids and pain pills, etc.
Cannabis
The main uses for Cannabis are for chronic pain and mental health
CBD is really good for people with inflammation
CBD is good for anything with -itis like arthritis, etc
THC is found to be much better than CBD for things like sciatica and nerve pain
Kyle mentions that when he takes CBD he has flashbacks of ayahuasca dreams/experiences
CBD is not psychoactive in that it doesn’t get you high
Kyle says that people can have spiritual experiences just by breathing, so the
CBD is just another vehicle that helps
Adding a small amount of THC to CBD isn’t going to potentiate it, but there may be an entourage effect that can be a further benefit to a patient
Don’t use more than 2.5mg of THC with CBD if you don’t want psychoactive effects
Mike says that some people use CBD isolate, and that’s great, but like an egg, it’s best not to eat just the egg whites, it’s best to eat the whole egg to get all of the benefits
So just like eating the whole egg, the best way to get all the benefits of cannabis is to use/consume the whole plant
There are definitely situations where using the whole plant is best, and other situations where isolation is best
Cannabis and Therapy
Anxiety can be treated very well with exposure therapy
Exposure therapy is exposing something you’re afraid of, and exposing it over and over until its not an anxiety anymore
CBD can decrease learned fear
PTSD is a learned fear
“The people who end up doing the most in life, are the people who have had the most trauma. We need to tell people that their trauma does not define them.” – Mike
It’s all about personal agency
It’s not about the drug, its you
It’s not about therapy, its you
The power is in you, its just learning how to harness and use that power
Mike says your relationships, your job, and your health are the three most important things to master
Going without something makes you more grateful for that thing
Ketamine
Mike has been prescribing Ketamine for just over a year now
It is helpful for mental health and chronic pain
Ketamine is really useful for treatment resistant depression
He prescribes Ketamine orally
He advises his patients to take it in the morning as soon as they wake up on an empty stomach
If it is taken that way, they get a psychoactive effect, and he thinks that it is the most effective way
Its instant, a patient can take it, and its effective right away, where typical antidepressants may take 4-6 weeks to kick in
Michael Hart, MD is the medical director and founder at Readytogo Clinic in London, Ontario. Readytogo Clinic focuses on cannabinoid medicine, but also offers family medicine services, IV vitamin therapy and specialized hormone testing. Dr. Hart is a recognized speaker on the topic of cannabis. He has spoken at CME events throughout Ontario, multiple cannabis conferences and has been featured on a variety of cannabis websites. In March of 2017, Dr. Hart released a free Ebook with his co-author Jeremy Kossen. Dr. Hart has seen first hand how the opioid epidemic is affecting our population and wanted to take action by finding a solution. Dr. Hart believes that cannabis is an excellent alternative to opioids and has seen excellent results in his practice. Dr. Hart emphasizes lifestyle changes in his medical practice and follows a low carb diet himself. Dr. Hart actively trains MMA at Adrenaline Training center and follows a comprehensive strength and conditioning program.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s Episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to talk about therapists being unprepared to talk to people taking psychedelics, the drug war and more.
Should there be some sort of body regulating therapist training in integration?
Should there be a standardized training?
There are going to be good therapists that care, and go out of their way and get the training, and there will be bad therapists, that do harm
It’s a long and difficult topic
Should people be going to jail for being bad therapists?
Looking at breathwork, there are training groups, but there isn’t one large, overarching group that governs all trainings
“Are we acting with integrity if we aren’t bringing the utmost safety to the table?” – Joe
Group Setting Impact
How is COVID going to impact psychedelic tourism?
In breathwork, people are potentially coughing, crying, and in general just doing heavy breathing, COVID is super contagious
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
For decades the consensus of the psychedelic science community regarding bipolar disorder is that people with manic depression should avoid psychedelics as to not aggravate their condition.
They’re one of the few groups, along with those with a psychotic spectrum disorder or a heart condition, who are told sorry, psychedelics are not safe for them. In the case of those diagnosed with bipolar disorder, the fear is that the psychedelic experience can cause them to go manic, a state characterized by grandiose thinking and over-extending oneself (and often one’s bank account) that can lead to reckless, dangerous, and intrusive behavior that’s essentially out of character and can cause folks to lose control of their own lives or put themselves and possibly others in life-threatening situations.
And it’s not a myth, there are case studies, like this one from 1981, of people going manic during or after psychedelic experiences, but there haven’t been any trials controlling for things like the type of substance, set and setting, and dosage.
The Serotonergic System and Bipolar Disorder
Classic psychedelics and other medicines like MDMA work largely by affecting the brain’s serotonin system, especially the 5-HT2A receptor, says Will Barone, PsyD who’s worked in research and clinical settings with therapies involving MDMA, psilocybin, and ketamine. For most people, that’s not a huge risk. It’s not physically dangerous unless mixing different substances or taking super-high doses. But for people with bipolar disorder, the serotonergic activity may be what poses the problem – that increased activity could potentially trigger mania, or at least “increase the likelihood for mood episodes,” as Barone puts it.
Most bipolar people can’t even take SSRI anti-depressants without the risk of hypomania or a manic episode, and it’s how many of the folks I interviewed and who filled out a survey on bipolar and psychedelics I created got diagnosed in the first place. They went to their doctors feeling depressed, got prescribed an SSRI, and instead of feeling better (or nothing at all), they went manic, some even bordering or breaking through to psychosis. And so, to most in the psychedelic community that’s the end of the story. If an SSRI can cause mania, then surely it’s unsafe to give these folks psilocybin, MDMA, or ayahuasca, for example. Sorry bipolar diagnosed people, but you are excluded from the incredible and mystical insight, perspective shift and depression relief that psychedelics can grant others. But what if it’s not as open and shut as the community would make us think?
Before I dive any deeper into what I found investigating this subject, it’s important to say that I am in no way encouraging anyone to take psychedelics or get off their prescription medications. But living with bipolar disorder can be hard. Not only can mania be dangerous but the depression is also life-threatening; people with manic depression are much more likely to attempt and commit suicide than the general population. Yet, the hypersensitivity that is sometimes a handicap can also be a gift, one that many are unwilling to give up. And traditional pharmaceutical medication often suppresses empathy, creativity, spirituality, and concentration, among a host of other natural processes. So are there other options for folks living with this condition?
The Use of Ketamine for Bipolar Disorder
“Ketamine is the primary substance I would feel comfortable working with for a bipolar client,” says Barone. “It doesn’t seem to have the same risk for inducing a mood episode as MDMA or psilocybin.” He explains that ketamine doesn’t work nearly as much on serotonin as other entheogens, that instead, its primary action is on the glutamate and NMDA receptors, which has made many researchers theorize how ketamine produces its rapid antidepressant effects. “We’re still figuring out a lot about how ketamine works,” Barone explains, but the risk of inducing a manic episode from clinical ketamine treatment seems to be very low. “That’s one of the interesting things,” he says, “so far in clinical ketamine treatment, we haven’t seen mania develop in people with bipolar disorder, even with a history of mania. I haven’t personally seen any cases.” However, it’s important to note, many bipolar clients of Ketamine assisted therapy or infusions are also staying on their medications, likely mitigating the risk. “Ketamine is one of the only medications with psychedelic properties where it is appropriate for a patient to remain on their mood-stabilizing medications,” says Barone. “This is important for patients with bipolar disorder who can be destabilized by stopping medication too abruptly.”
In the program where Barone practices, Healing Realms Psychotherapy, clinicians sometimes utilize ketamine assisted psychotherapy (KAP) for individuals with bipolar disorder. It’s on a case by case basis, but essentially ketamine can be offered at different doses in conjunction with talk therapy, which can “use that psychedelic or altered experience to better understand your situation,” says Barone, “to have better awareness of your ego functioning and how to manage mood, in addition to the mood-stabilizing properties of ketamine.” Then, clinicians often increase the amount of follow-up sessions for bipolar clients to continue to monitor changes to mood or cognition, Barone tells me.
The Risks of Triggering Mania with Different Substances
A Ph.D. candidate at Flinders University, Benjamin Mudge, is looking into this phenomenon for his thesis and believes the type of substance plays a large role in mitigating the mania risk and providing the most balanced depression relief for those with manic depression. Mudge himself is bipolar, and at 48 has been through the wringer in attempts to treat his condition. Over a three hour Skype conversation, he tells me about being institutionalized and medicated on 17 different pharmaceuticals over 10 years with varying degrees of negative side effects, from weight gain and hair loss to losing his ability make art (a practice many thought he’d pursue professionally as a young person), capacity to make and perform music, and complete numbness to the rich world around him.
“I don’t feel suicidal, manic, or crazy [on the drugs the psychiatrists prescribed me],” Mudge explains. “But I don’t feel pleasure, fun, or arousal. I don’t feel a spiritual connection with nature. I can be sitting in a sacred ceremony, church, music festival, or forest, and everyone that’s around me is feeling something deep. But I just feel numb. And as a result of that, I then feel a sense of frustration and alienation from other people, and a sense of pointlessness.”
Eventually fed up, Mudge stopped taking pharmaceuticals cold-turkey (a practice he does not recommend to others) in search of a more natural remedy. After failed attempts with herbs like St John’s Wort, a friend asked if he had heard of ayahuasca. Now, 15 years later, Mudge drinks ayahuasca every couple of months to manage his condition (in addition to being careful with nutrition and avoiding other psychoactive substances) – and has never felt better. Even though, he tells me repeatedly throughout our conversation that this path isn’t for everyone and he in no way recommends folks stop taking their meds in favor of ayahuasca.
But his Ph.D. in psychiatry gives him the opportunity that many don’t have: he is systematically recording his moods and other reactions to ayahuasca, along with analyzing each tea he drinks in the lab to try and figure out the optimal brew for those living with manic depression. And he’s formulated a few fascinating theories that are catching the eye of psychedelic researchers around the globe.
For one, substance matters, and Mudge believes DMT might hold the most benefits for those with bipolar disorder because of its incredibly short binding time to the 5-HT2A receptor. Most psychedelics “plug into” the 2A receptor, LSD, psilocybin, and DMT included, but the length to which they stay there determines the length of a trip. So for example, (see image 1) LSD stays plugged in for the longest, which explains why it’s such a longer-lasting trip than psilocybin or simply smoking pure DMT. But Mudge theorizes the binding time also matters when determining the mania risk for the bipolar brain, that the short binding time of DMT poses less of a risk of pushing bipolar people into mania, while substances that bind for longer, like LSD, present a higher risk.
His theory gets more complicated than this and some of his mechanical ideas are based on findings of his mother, Anne W. Mudge, a Professor of neurobiology at University College London. In 2002 she discovered the bipolar brain has a malfunction in its inositol phosphate metabolism, which is a key regulating function that helps average folks regulate their moods, speed of their thoughts, and other related actions. In a nutshell, she discovered that instead of the bipolar mind being “too high” or “too low” (aka manic or depressive), that in reality, it was functioning at speeds that were too fast or too slow because of its missing regulating mechanism, thus explaining how medication like Lithium comes in to help regulate that speed (see image 2).
Now when we add serotonergic psychedelics or SSRI medication on top of a “dysregulated” brain, there’s a chance it could overextend itself and go too fast for too long, which could look like mania. And often, depression follows the mania in these cases, hence, the “disorderly” moods. However, this gets back to the binding time in Mudge’s theory, because what if shorter-acting psychedelics didn’t push people over the edge into mania, but rather, jump-started them out of depression and left them with more self-awareness to notice when their moods are fluctuating, giving them the ability to be more proactive in that process?
Mudge has found that ayahuasca and DMT help him the most (in carefully curated circumstances that we’ll discuss below). It brings him depression-relief and healing from a long list of past traumas, plus incredible awareness of the internal signs of a rising manic episode and how those behaviors have affected others. “One of the most fundamentally valuable things about ayahuasca for bipolar people is that it’s helped me understand how the manic episode is damaging people around me and damaging myself,” Mudge explains. “There is a sort of heightened sense of conscience, a social conscience that comes from the psychedelic awareness. That principle is perfect for getting bipolar people to understand how problematic the mania is, even if it feels amazing at the time.” And with the right brew of ayahuasca in a supportive container, this insight and healing come without pushing him into mania. He says after an ayahuasca ceremony he feels a “humble happiness” rather than a speedy or bordering on manic one.
Part of his research is interviewing others and collecting qualitative data of folks with bipolar disorder who use ayahuasca and DMT to try and determine what’s happening. And it’s beginning to prove his theories. For example, of the 10 bipolar people, he’s interviewed that smoke or vape pure DMT (without any MAOI inhibitor-containing plants or substances), “none of them went manic.” He says, “All of them reported the same thing, which was that it was mildly antidepressant. But it was also calming and grounding. As in, if they were on the manic end of the spectrum [which three were], it would bring them back to the center. And if they were depressed, it would bring them slightly up, but it wouldn’t keep pushing them and escalating into mania.”
This is a shocking finding, but not a surprising one. Psychedelics in the right dose and a prepared set and setting are known to give people a new perspective on their lives and behaviors, so why couldn’t they help folks increase their self-awareness around their mood? In a survey I conducted of bipolar diagnosed people who have tried psychedelics, I came to a similar finding. Of the 42 bipolar people who continue to use psychedelics like psilocybin, ayahuasca, DMT, mescaline and even LSD, 35 found the experience helped them manage their symptoms, including not only depression-relief but more awareness to ground themselves during mood shifts and ability to recognize manic behavior.
“I am aware of my manic episodes when they are taking place. I am also able to recognize them faster after they happen. Maybe I can’t change what I did in those moments, [but] I am able to hold compassion for myself and understand that I am still learning and growing because for so many years I just numbed myself with Pharma and alcohol,” described Mary* a 31-year-old with Bipolar I who no longer takes pharmaceutical medication but has been using psilocybin in varying doses since January 2019. “The manic events are shorter and less severe. For example, instead of spending $1,000 at a store, I’ll spend $100 and then recognize it and am able to hold compassion that I am making progress. (My manic episodes tend to lean towards over-spending, over-eating, over-everything). Also, it has helped my binging and purging, and my depression. Obviously, all are related, but I am just more aware of everything and also the plant medicine helps me see where everything is stemming from so I can re-parent those sides of myself.”
Interestingly, some who reported more awareness and ability to manage manic behaviors pointed to mania being a very “ego-driven” experience, perhaps explaining how psychedelics are helping folks deal with it rather than aggravate it further. “When I am starting towards a manic episode, psychedelics kind of smack me back down to earth and help me remember that I don’t have all my shit figured out. It humbles me and relieves the burning anger and irritation with compassion and connection to the ‘other’,” explained Sarah*, a 37-year-old with Bipolar 2 who is now off pharmaceuticals and instead uses psilocybin truffles about once a month in different doses, which are legal in the Netherlands where she lives.
Admittedly, the responses to the survey I created have a bias because most folks found the Google Form through my social media where I’m very pro-psychedelic (especially psilocybin mushrooms) and so my followers are more likely to report positive experiences than negative ones. However, considering the lack of options beyond lifelong medication for the bipolar population, it’s an interesting finding in need of more investigation beyond anecdotal reports. Could one psychedelic experience every few months “ground” bipolar folks, allowing them to experience and manage their full range of feelings without heavy meds like Lithium? Even in Barone’s practice with ketamine, he tells Psychedelics Today that when appropriate, the goal is to wean some patients off their pharmaceutical medications eventually and instead, manage their moods with the help of intermittent ketamine-assisted therapy sessions and building skills to independently manage mood fluctuations.
It’s super controversial, especially considering unmedicated bipolar folks are at a much higher risk for suicide. Plus, going off psychiatric medication quickly without a doctor’s supervision is also dangerous, especially when combined with psychedelics. Barone, who’s volunteered at Burning Man’s Zendo Project for seven years and supervised for four, explains the combination of stopping medication to take psychedelics has caused numerous attendees to have a psychotic break at Black Rock City. Plus, Barone says that for some people, “It may be the intensity of the experience or having insufficient support during and after a trip that shifts mood or cognitive process beyond the effects of the substance.”
At the same time, mixing bipolar medications with psychedelics seems to be contraindicated, although getting a clear answer from doctors on this is hard. While it’s pretty common knowledge that SSRI’s shouldn’t be combined with psychedelics for several reasons, including the potential risk of Serotonin Syndrome, there’s less info out there about common bipolar medications like lamotrigine and lithium. Some doctors, like a psychiatrist Mudge, knows of in New York and those I interviewed for my book on mushrooms, seem to think lamotrigine doesn’t pose a huge risk when mixing with psilocybin or ayahuasca, however, lithium seems to be in a class of its own. I’ve personally heard of two instances where lithium mixed with LSD caused such negative reactions (including a seizure) that both people were sent to the emergency room to the despair of their tripping friends. There’s more info on mixing Lithium and LSD in this Erowid vault.
To make matters even more complicated, even some of those who responded to my survey saying psychedelics help them reflect on their manic/hypomanic behaviors and ground themselves often also describe a singular incident where they did go manic and even psychotic or deeply paranoid after particular psychedelic journeys where they either “took too much,” had a “bad trip”, or took substances in less than ideal set and settings. Which brings us back to Mudge’s theories, that the bipolar brain is more sensitive and can’t handle certain substances or situations, like frequent psychedelic use or poly-drug mixes, without possibly heading into mania.
And so, Mudge has created harm reduction guidelines for bipolar diagnosed people who want to drink ayahuasca, although he tells me multiple times he is not advising anyone to take ayahuasca or do anything illegal, but instead to please wait until his research and other community initiatives are completed. Yet, if people ignore his advice, the guidelines (see image 3) do provide a lot of interesting information to reduce harm and the risk of mood episodes. For instance, while the ayahuasca tradition is to partake in multiple ceremonies over a week or two, Mudge says that puts the bipolar brain at a much higher risk for mania. Instead, participating in one ceremony and getting enough sleep afterward will provide folks with a lot more benefits than continuing to drink – and stimulate their 5-HT2A receptors – night after night.
Plus, he’s seen this high frequency of psychedelic use play out badly with other substances as well in his interview subjects, even at microdoses. For example, he tells me of a bipolar man who was microdosing psilocybin every day to manage his mood and had the worst manic episode of his life – at 40. Mudge believes it was the repeated stimulation of taking a serotonergic substance that binds for six hours that induced mania – similar to what an SSRI would do to a bipolar person.
When it comes to safe ayahuasca practices for those diagnosed with manic depression, Mudge believes mixing with other substances – even if they’re presented in ceremony as holy tools, like rapé, cannabis and even cacao or chocolate – poses a higher risk for pushing the bipolar brain into mania. I ask if there should be a specific bipolar “dieta” (a concept in the ayahuasca tradition where you adhere to a special diet in preparation for your ceremony) and he says absolutely. “This is why you’re not supposed to eat overripe bananas and soy sauce. Because it’s chemically reactive,” Mudge explains, and for bipolar folks, the dieta will have to be even more restrictive to provide the maximum benefits and the least amount of harm.
Lastly, when it comes to ayahuasca, not all brews are created equally, and Mudge also believes some brews that pose a higher risk than others based on their chemical composition. For example, ayahuasca prepared in the Amazon jungle can have a different combination of herbs and precise species of vine depending on the shaman, culture, and retreat center. While most psychedelics have a single type of molecule causing the experience, there are at least four psychoactive ingredients in ayahuasca: harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine, and DMT. Therefore, brews can have different ratios of MAOI inhibitors to DMT molecules, and Mudge believes the bipolar brain responds better to a brew that has more DMT because the MAOI inhibitors can push people into mania (just like MAOI pharmaceuticals are known to do). He also says ayahuasca prepared in other parts of the world that use Syrian Rue instead of the ayahuasca vine also poses more of a risk because it has a different ratio of harmala alkaloids than the Banisteriopsis caapi vine used in genuine ayahuasca.
Plus, lots of the ayahuasca that is consumed isn’t brewed fresh, but brewed once and is carried around for months to over a year, and in that time it begins to ferment and produce alcohol. And Mudge believes fermented ayahuasca poses a problem for the bipolar brain where a depressive hangover can follow rather than a humble afterglow. “I think it changes the qualitative experience for everybody,” he elaborates. “I think it makes the ceremony more intense, more into the shadow.” But for the bipolar brain, “which is more sensitive” it can leave people feeling agitated and depressed. He explains there is a trick to getting rid of the alcohol in aged ayahuasca, basically cooking the brew on a very low heat for 10 to 20 minutes so that it steams the alcohol off but never starts to boil or even simmer. “It should start to smell like a vegetable soup when it’s ready,” Mudge says.
And it’s not like bipolar people don’t ever go manic after drinking ayahuasca, it happens, and 17 of his 62 interview subjects experienced it. But, after investigating each situation further, it seems many, if not all, of the 17 were mixing substances, drinking fermented ayahuasca or brews with Syrian Rue and participating in multiple ceremonies in a week, and so in terms of his research, are technically false negatives. Although, these situations only further prove the need for his research and more like it.
Clinical Perspectives and Safety Concerns
But what about other psychedelic substances? If Mudge’s theory is correct, is DMT the only option that’s less likely to cause mania? What about mushrooms, LSD, or MDMA? Could they all have a place with specific safety guidelines? And what would those guidelines look like for a person diagnosed with manic depression? Cynthia*, a clinical therapist specializing in spiritual emergence and psychedelic integration who was trained in the transpersonal paradigm at the California Institute for Integral Studies (CIIS), thinks bipolar clients not only need a lot of preparation and integration support for a psychedelic experience, like with a professional therapist or spiritual guide, but they need to be able to sustain their stability without medication first, which she realizes just isn’t possible for everyone. She’s come to this belief not only as a clinician but as someone who was diagnosed with bipolar herself over 20 years ago, although she doesn’t identify very strongly with the diagnosis.
She views bipolar, and all mental illness, through a very spiritual lens. “It’s not just our biochemistry and our diagnostic criteria, but it’s really our souls,” she says. She tells me about her only manic-psychotic episode which was brought on by SSRI medication in the late 1990s when she was only 20 years old. “It absolutely was also a very spiritual experience and very much a healing crisis.” She explains, during her episode, she had trauma from her early childhood come up and other painful material that needs resolving, but she didn’t get the support to really examine it until years later. I ask her if she thinks mania can be thought of in terms of Stanislav and Christina Grof’s idea of “Spiritual Emergence(y)”, a theory that views some non-ordinary states of consciousness as healing processes that could be supported for the most positive gain rather than suppressed with tranquilizing medication.
“I do think mine was a spiritual emergence. And I knew that at the time, but I didn’t have the language for it,” she says. “And what I’ve come to conclude is I think it’s not necessarily a completely ‘either-or’. I think there’s both, or it’s almost like two different languages used to describe a similar thing. Because, if you go through the checklist, I definitely fit the criteria for manic psychosis. And I definitely was having trouble, just at the very end, not eating and sleeping and not being able to use words, things that were dangerous. Now, if I had had sitters and 24 hours of support and a bunch of space to wander around, I probably could have rode it out and had the support to just be in that state faithfully until it ran its course. But I didn’t, and most of us don’t.”
It’s a curious and radical idea that insight and healing can come from some natural non-ordinary states of consciousness, like mania and psychosis, if they could be “sat with” and supported as they played out, just like a psychedelic trip. And it’s not the first similarity between manic depression and the psychedelic experience that I came across researching this piece. Two other bipolar diagnosed people I spoke to pointed to mania being very much like a entheogenic journey. “So much of my mania feels like tripping,” said Pam* a 39-year-old woman with Bipolar 1 who no longer takes prescription mood stabilizers but uses different psychedelics to deal with her depression, “If the tripping will end, so will the mania.”
However, in our society, we very much view these states as needing to be “cured” and suppressed rather than explored and supported. And in Cynthia’s case, she ended up in a psychiatric hospital and then on Lithium for five years after her episode. But during her first semester of grad school at CIIS, she began working with a holistic psychiatrist, part of the Grofs’ Spiritual Emergence Network, who helped her confront her trauma, wean off the medication, and learn to feel and manage the full range of her emotions through the use of spiritual and Eastern practices. Which admittedly, right after years of Lithium, was hard. She essentially had to relearn how to feel and it was overwhelming at first. “And then I was terrified of doing anything spiritual. I was terrified to meditate. I had a chance to do holotropic breathwork and I was like, I don’t want to rock the boat.” But she did learn and developed other spiritual practices, like yoga, which helped her understand how to regulate her own energy. And, even though she’s not currently on daily pharmaceuticals, she definitely still thinks they have a place, like to regulate mood for a shorter time and to control “breakout” symptoms of mania, such as trouble sleeping.
Implications for Future Research and Guidelines
For Cynthia, psychedelics were not part of this re-learning for 20 years. Instead, she spent that time integrating her spiritual emergence/manic episode, learning how to recognize the “edges” of hypomania and ground herself naturally. But two years ago, she finally felt ready to go back into the psychedelic space with spiritual guides, and now she manages all types of psychedelic experiences, even the ones Mudge warns against like LSD, MDMA, 2C-B and others I had to look up like 3-MMC and 2C-E. She says it’s not the psychedelics that keep her grounded like some of my survey participants reported, but since she’s learned how to ground herself, these experiences are manageable and beneficial for other healing.
“I’ve had a lot of stuff come up from around my episode, like fear of my own greatness. It’s like I’m scared to go visionary because they’re going to label me as manic. But I had to reclaim my comfort with that.” Cynthia admits, after a trip, especially with “heart medicines” like MDMA, she does have increased energy, “It’s exciting, I have this sort of energy of how wonderful everything is. I just have to make sure I’m sleeping and intentionally doing things to stay grounded.”She says there was atime recently where she was taking empathogens a little too often – once a month, sometimes more – and she started to have “more depressive dips and more anxiety.” But she was able to recognize that and back off. “Now I’m trying to keep it like once a quarter or even less than that.”
However, she says as a clinician, “I don’t feel super comfortable if I had a bipolar client doing classic psychedelics. I might, but it would be very case by case because I do think there is that potential risk.” She also believes bipolar to be a spectrum, and those with more severe cases with recurrent manic episodes might not be able to stabilize themselves like she’s learned to. But the connection between spiritual emergence and bipolar disorder, psychedelics and mania seem too close and full of such vast potential to not be investigated further. And of course, Mudge has a plan for how to proceed.
Once Mudge figures out the ideal recipe for brewing ayahuasca “in a balanced way” that is medicinal but “not dangerous in terms of triggering mania,” his mission is to create the “Manic Depressive Community Church”. It would serve as a community for those with bipolar and those affected by the condition (like parents and spouses) where ayahuasca, served in the safest possible way by understanding facilitators who are bipolar themselves, is the sacrament. His vision is that this church would be a non-profit organization that’s local to people so they wouldn’t have to travel to the Amazon to take this medicine. And of course, being the academic that he is, he also envisions setting up a clinical trial or having the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) come in to do an observational clinical trial so the community can finally get some hard data on this population other than assumptions, anecdotes, and old case studies.
Mudge also insists that bipolar folks wait for him to accomplish this goal before they start drinking ayahuasca or taking other kinds of psychedelics. He says his safety protocol and recipe are still about two years away from being complete, and in the meantime, he encourages folks to prepare by getting their lifestyles in order. He explains that it means accepting their diagnosis and getting on medications that work, like lamotrigine and a low dose of lithium. It also means getting enough sleep and stopping other recreational or self-medicating drug use like alcohol, cannabis, or whatever else. “That’ll help you in the next year or two in a massive way,” says Mudge, “and then you’ll be ready to drink safely.”
But the weight of the bipolar community’s desire to heal shouldn’t be all up to one man. The psychedelic science community should also step up and start investigating the potential benefits and harms for this large and desperate population. “There’s a massive potential of psychedelics, but bipolar people have unique brain chemistry,” says Mudge. “They need the psychedelic experience to be chemically tailored to their brains’ needs.”
Some interesting developments today in the world of Holotropic Breathwork & Dr. Stanislav Grof. Stan and his wife Brigitte issued a statement on Facebook about their moving further away from Grof Transpersonal Training (the Holotropic Breathwork trademark owner).
We wish Stan and his family the best of luck on this venture.
You can learn more about Stan’s current and future work here. Learn more about their upcoming film here.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk mostly about Corpora-delic, companies and wealthy individuals investing in the psychedelic industry.
The CEO, Jason Hobson says, “The current health pandemic has resulted in a societal shift in the way we think about our health and the importance of access to treatment, both physical health and mental health. Ei.Ventures believes this is the right time to lean into mental health issues such as mood disorders and addiction, and eventual access to therapeutic treatments from innovations in botanical compounds that have been around for thousands of years.”
Joe and Kyle say that there is so much money coming in, and it worries the psychedelic community because they aren’t used to seeing capitalism
Joe says that he hopes that some patents don’t equate to ruining access
“Are these companies going to bully the smaller organizations out of existence so that diversity doesn’t really exist in the way we think it should?” – Joe
Medical is a great model, but it should be reduced to that only
Kyle says the sacred-ness feels like it may be taken away, and big companies just look at it as a commodity
“Not everyone sees this opportunity for entrepreneurship as a good thing. For researchers looking into the efficacy of psychedelics for therapeutic purposes, these substances are far more than a market opportunity—they’re potentially life-saving medications. And after decades of prohibition, psychedelics are just barely gaining mainstream acceptance.’ – from the article
People are bold enough to stand up to companies they don’t agree with It’s no joke how much money was spent on making Tim Leary look bad
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is launching a new drug program for treating soldiers with PTSD, depression, anxiety, and drug addiction, and it is drawing inspiration from psychedelic research.
Kyle mentions that this is tricky, its both a biochemical and experiential thing
Will eliminating the hallucinations ruin the experience?
Joe says that there are some people that are so unstable that a psychedelic experience can be really a lot
Joe also says that there arent alot of drugs that their use needs to be supervised (medically) and psychedelics are some of them
If we aren’t coming from psychedelic values when bringing these substances into the mainstream, then what are we doing?
What are psychedelic values?
Valuing the planet, valuing your place in the planet, a sense of connection, cooperation vs. competition, how do we honor a lineage or where these medicines come from? these could be some psychedelic values
Following the permaculture principles and applying them to life is a great tool for systems thinking
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Melissa Stangl and Daniel Cleland, Co-founders of Soltara Healing Center. They talk about integration, Shipibo healing lineage, accessibility of psychedelics, and psychedelic tourism.
3 Key Points:
Soltara is a Healing Center dedicated toward integration as well as practicing and preserving the Shipibo tradition of Ayahusca healing.
It doesn’t make sense to take nature based traditions and turn it into instant gratification and business. The further you get from tradition, the less beneficial it may be.
Tourism for Ayahuasca can bring both harm and benefits to the local community. Reinforcing the heritage, paying the healers very well and giving back to the forests in terms of sustainability are all ways that Soltara is using Ayahuasca tourism to help the local communities.
Show Notes
About Melissa
Melissa originally comes from the STEM field
She was working in corporate America and was in search for a deeper meaning
She met Dan and after joining one of his initial ayahuasca journeys into Peru, it changed her mindset about healing
Dan looked for someone to help him after starting up his first ayahuasca center in Peru, and so she dropped everything and moved to the jungle to make it happen
After witnessing the healing potential working within the Shipibo tradition, and the need for integration within the community, she later founded Soltara with Dan in Costa Rica
About Daniel
Daniel grew up in a small town in Canada
He followed the typical life trajectory, go to school, go to college, get a job, etc
He didn’t have big ambitions at the time, very in line with the middle class area that he grew up in
After entering the work-force, he was in un-ambitious jobs
He thought “are there just 30 years of doing this until this is over?”
He felt a strong pull towards South America
He was very close to nature in his upbringing
He got a job leading tours
He had a personal crisis that led him to do some soul searching
Within the span of a few years, the trajectory pushed him to build his own healing center in Peru
Pillars of Soltara
They feel very strongly about having the Shipibo healers lead the ceremony, and everything that they (Mel, Dan and the team) do is to help honor the tradition
They focus a lot on integration
For the Shipibo culture, their life is integraton, but for a lot of people that are coming from the Western world and other places, that is not the case
They started collaborating with clinical psychologists to help create a program that puts the retreat at the start of the program, the work comes after
Soltara includes a workbook for integration afterward
Our transition times in modern life are shamed, getting your period, having a mid life crisis, having a psychedelic experience, but these experiences can be very sacred
“Connecting to the sacredness of life is so healing and so needed for modern-day society” – Melissa
Container for Safety and Integration
The sensationalism is more around the experience itself
People think that you just go in and have the experience and then your life is changed forever and that is not the case
A place where people not only can find who they are, but then be who they are in that container, and meet people and create community, is so powerful
Kyle said when he attended his retreat there, he can’t shake how safe he felt He said it really stood out to him, for someone who is looking at integration and so involved in this field
“I would like to bring people to this tradition in a way that is accessible, and I think that starts with safety” – Melissa
Corporadelic
There are new products, treatment centers, etc
The further away you get from tradition, the less beneficial it may be
Dan says it doesn’t make sense to take nature based traditions for instant gratification, monopoly, and business
The ceremony is the healing part, the ayahuasca allows one to connect with the plants, and that it is just the songs in ceremony that really create the healing
Melissa says she understands that the science is helping the movement, but she is so afraid that big corporations will just run with this and ruin tradition around it
Kyle says during his experience at Soltara, he just felt flooded with gratitude to experience the medicine healing in nature and in the Shipibo culture, where it is natural
Ayahuasca Tourism
Tourism for Ayahuasca causes harm but also brings benefits to the community too
Dan says they are expanding the work, they are not taking away from the traditions
It takes a certain capacity to travel to the jungle, speak the language, figure out where to go, how to get there, and how to receive healing is not typically possible for the vast majority of people
The Shipibo is receiving really good pay doing this work, which isn’t typically possible for the indigenous people
This is also reinforcing the heritage, encouraging the children to continue the traditional path
Now it’s not only a cultural heritage, it’s also a way to make a living for the community members
You don’t cut down trees to grow ayahuasca, you grow ayahuasca among the trees, so it’s protecting the jungle
In recent years there has been more information and collective awareness to ask the hard questions, Bia Labate has been on the forefront of this, asking the indigenous leaders the important questions of how to keep Ayahuasca tourism sustainable, beneficial and protected
Sustainability
They just completed a fundraiser for the Amazon
They have been collaborating with Amazon Watch, and they raised over $10,000
They are working to plant new Ayahuasca, not to harvest but just to put back into the jungle
Final Thoughts
Melissa suggest listeners to watch Reconnect, a movie about a man’s journey to Soltara
After taking a leap of faith in September 2015 to step out of Corporate America and into the Amazon jungle, Melissa has since used her background in engineering, science, and management to help advance the plant medicine and psychedelic movements – first by helping run a top-rated ayahuasca center in Peru as Operations Manager, and then as Director of Business Development – and now as Founding Partner and COO for Soltara. She is passionate about using her technical, managerial, and problem-solving skills to help bridge the gap between the Western world and the incredible healing potential of plant medicines and holistic health. Melissa is honored to be a part of this project and working with such a high-quality team that understands the importance and sacredness of this work. Her ethos is one of authenticity, professionalism, respect for tradition, transparency, and high-quality service. These mutual tenets are the team’s vision for Soltara as a whole, and she is grateful to take part in creating a space that is a strong conduit for healing, sustainability, and knowledge, empowering each guest to become global beacons for positive change.
About Daniel Cleland
Daniel Cleland is the Founding Partner/Chairman and CEO of Soltara Healing Center. He is an international entrepreneur, traveller, and author of the book, Pulse of the Jungle: Ayahuasca, Adventures and Social Enterprise in the Amazon. Originating in Walkerton, Ontario, he has spent over a decade globe-trotting and hosting group tours all over Latin America and in the deepest parts of the Amazon to work with traditional indigenous medicine practices. After completing his Master’s of Intercultural and International Communication, Daniel founded the company Pulse Tours, a company operating in Peru which became one of the highest rated shamanic retreat centers in the world before he sold it completely in 2017. He believes in supporting sustainability initiatives around the world, such as a free solar power installation that he spearheaded for an entire village in the Amazon in 2017, and the work being done by Amazon Rainforest Conservancy, a Canadian NGO wherein Daniel sits as a member of the advisory board.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk about the Shadow Panel, embracing the weird in psychedelia, what is real, re-examining ‘normal’, and more.
Show Notes
Shadow Panel
Topics in the Panel include
Ayahuasca retreat centers
Maximization culture to use psychedelics for optimization
Ketamine therapy and shadow as aspects of character
It is a study of the spiritual provocations to be found in the work of Philip K. Dick, Terence McKenna, and Robert Anton Wilson
It’s a really nice survey of the weird
“Are you acknowledging what you’re getting by believing something is true? It’s a part of your analysis”
Joe says if you’re into the weird stuff in psychedelics, this book is for you. If you are only into the clinical stuff, then this is good for you.
Kyle says sometimes we don’t give enough credit to the weirdness in the psychedelic space
Corporadelic is a means of spiritual bypassing
The weirdness is core to what the psychedelic experience is
What is Real?
Psyche means more than just mind
When its mind, body, spirit, breath, it seems more accurate
It is worth reading Alfred Whitehead and James Fadiman, Philosophy is important
We are trying to understand and have helpful language around the psychedelic experience
“There are no whole truths, there are only half truths”
Kyle said that at the core of our being, how do we know what is true and real?
At the fundamental truth of what real is, Kyle says that sitting in the CAT scan machine and being on the brink of death, that’s the only place where truth sits for him
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe interviews Michelle Janikian, Author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion. In the show, they talk about Michelle’s book, the need to speak about the unspoken, and how psychedelic experiences differ for everyone.
3 Key Points:
Michelle Janikian is Author of the book, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, an easy-to-use guide to understanding magic mushrooms, from tips and trips to microdosing and psychedelic therapy.
Psychedelics can help people, but they don’t solve all problems. Doing the homework after an experience is so important.
The psychedelic subculture has a lot of repressed stuff going on like sexual abuse. We need to speak about the things that aren’t necessarily good for the movement, we need to talk about all of it.
Show Notes
About Michelle
Michelle was originally a cannabis journalist
Then she was a staff writer for Herb
She then started writing her own book, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion
So much has been happening with mushrooms lately, and Michelle thought we really needed a resource on how to use mushrooms safely
Ulysses Press did a few Cannabis books
Michelle was approached by them, they wanted to do a mushroom guide
She first took mushrooms when she was 17
She took them for fun, but had so many deep and meaningful experiences too
Michelle believes there are multiple right ways to use psilocybin, either therapeutically, ceremonially, recreationally, etc.
“As long as you’re being safe with your surroundings, and with yourself, anyway is the right way (except for the fact that they are still illegal)” – Michelle
In places where mushrooms are decriminalized, she mentions it totally changes your comfort level and experience when you’re not so afraid to have them on you
Retreat
Michelle just volunteered as a trip sitter at a week long women’s retreat in Mexico at Luz Eterna Retreats
She says she doesn’t have all the answers, but the group environment can be really great for some, and not good at all for others
She suggests, “do what feels right for you”
Routes of Administration
There isn’t one ideal form of administration across all drugs
Joe says one route of administration may be good for one person, and not for another
You can powder the mushrooms and put them into capsules, put them on food, eat them plain, make a tea out of them, etc
Michelle says she has a great recipe in her book for mushroom tea to prevent nausea
Different for Everyone
Michelle felt a calling to write the book because she says many other books and publications were coming out, and she didn’t want some people to feel upset when psychedelics didn’t just ‘heal them’
She says psychedelics help her, but they don’t solve all of her problems
Doing the homework after an experience is so important
The Unspoken
She says she feels uninspired to write about the ‘black and white’, the same old, stereotypical narrative
She wants to write about the grey, the unexpected, the in-between
Michelle asks how do we talk about the things that aren’t right for the movement? Like the sexual abuse that happens in this space
This psychedelic subculture has a lot of repressed stuff going on, and how do we talk about it?
We need to keep learning in this field to keep improving, it is dense and detailed
Michelle leaves us with a final thought, “read more books written by women!”
Michelle Janikian is the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, the down-to-earth guide that details how to use magic mushrooms “like an adult.” As a journalist, she got her start writing about cannabis for publications like High Times, Rolling Stone and Herb. Now, she writes a column for Playboy on all things drug related and also contributes regularly to DoubleBlind Mag, MERRY JANE, Psychedelic’s Today and others. She’s passionate about the healing potential of psychedelic plants and substances, especially psilocybin and cannabis, and the legalization and de- stigmatization of all drugs. Michelle studied writing and psychology at Sarah Lawrence College before traveling extensively in Latin America and eventually settling down in southern Mexico. Born in New York City and raised in New Jersey, Michelle ventures back to the States a few times a year to give talks and workshops on safe mushroom use and other cannabis and psychedelic related topics.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s episode with Kyle and Joe, they cover current events on psychedelics for treatment of COVID-19 trauma, an article on single dose psilocybin effects, psychedelic investments, self care and more.
The article states, the researchers found that self-reported emotional distress was reduced one week after psilocybin administration, but returned to baseline levels at one month after psilocybin administration
There were a few doctors and people that didn’t understand the value of psychedelics being used as psychiatric tools
Kyle thinks especially of all of the first-responders that are working non stop, without a break, for weeks on end, witnessing tons of people dying daily, and then trying to come back and process this
The mental health, long term of these people is going to be so impacted
Then we have to think about the people that can’t come together for a funeral after they lose someone
This pandemic is going to be traumatizing for people
Joe says this looks like a global ego death, all of the systems that we have had before are not adequate
The Spanish flu of 1918 was only a few years away from the Great Depression
We know that traumas influence health and behaviors, but we have tools and technologies to get ahead of this, from an epigenetic standpoint
Psychedelic Investments
Kyle and Joe talk for a while about psychedelics and money and research and funding
It’s a tricky thing, because we want there to be funding to make this accessible, but we want people to invest with integrity and to not start a monopoly on the funding
Joe says we (as a company) have been approached by investors, but we have been hesitant to stay with our vision, keep our integrity and stay on track with our mission
Self Care
Kyle says stay in the present moment, limit news consumption (watch it maybe once a day to know what’s going on, but then put the phone down and not drown in it)
It’s helpful to develop more of a spiritual practice in this time (yoga, meditation)
Self care is going to look different for everybody
Joe says ‘Maslow it’, get good sleep, drink good water, satisfy basic needs, those are first step during this time
Kyle says that he uses movement, somatic work, breathing into places in the body that are tense, etc
Kyle says that those who are doing a lot of online work, take time to move and stretch
This is a time to do a lot of work we have put off, but at the same time, its okay to give our bodies a break, take time to rest, get outside, find movement, etc
It’s important not to take on too much or do too many things
Psychedelics and the Shadow: A Series Exploring the Shadow Side of Psychedelia
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
Could it possibly be safe, ethical or even beneficial for psychedelics to have a role in addiction recovery?
The recovery community is huge and diverse, but the thing most members of AA and NA subscribe to is the complete abstinence from all mood-altering substances. Yet, there’s a small and controversial movement within the community that looks to loosen the strict boundaries of sobriety by allowing for the intentional use of psychedelics.
Psychedelics for Addiction in Clinical Trials
In clinical trials with classic psychedelics like psilocybin, a high dose, monitored entheogenic experience with clinical support is being shown to help people break addictive relationships with substances like alcohol, tobacco, and cocaine. For example, at the University of Alabama, Birmingham, clinical psychologist and researcher, Peter Hendricks, and his team are finishing up a study on psilocybin-assisted therapy for cocaine addiction, and their preliminary results are quite striking. Although they haven’t completed their data collection yet, Hendricks says they have looked at the first 10 participants, six of whom received psilocybin and four a placebo. And those who received the magic mushroom compound used cocaine much less frequently than those who received the placebo following their dosing session.
Hendricks believes the psilocybin group received greater benefit because of the vast insight the psychedelic experience gave them, specifically regarding their own cocaine use. “There seems to be this change in mindset, this very specific realization that ‘my cocaine use has had a very negative impact on the people I love. And the people I love are what’s most important to me. That’s what life is all about. And I can’t let my behavior continue to impact the people I love. So I am committed to stop this,’” describes Hendricks. “In the back of their mind, there’s this sense that I’m going to get back into it [sobriety]. I’m going to be abstinent. I’m going to make a change, no matter what I have to do.”
On the other hand, many in the placebo group reduced their cocaine use, but still “continued a certain pattern of use,” says Hendricks, rather than the extended periods of abstinence and drive to stay sober they saw from the psilocybin group. “I don’t know that it’s ever really a reasonable goal that someone would stop using any given substance and never ever use again, but we want to reduce as much as we can,” says Hendricks. “And if there are lapses or bumps in the road that those lapses would not turn into a full-blown relapse where folks return to their previous use patterns.”
Psychedelics in Addiction Recovery Support Groups
Although taking psilocybin in a clinical trial context is a bit different than taking mushrooms at home or out in nature, the insight psychedelic experiences provide, including the lasting motivation to prevent relapse, is a major reason folks in recovery are turning to psychedelics. Danielle Negrin, Executive Director of the San Francisco Psychedelic Society and Founder of the “Psychedelic Recovery” support group in the Bay Area explains most of the participants in her group are looking to sustain their sobriety from certain substances that cause them the most harm – like meth, opioids, or alcohol – in a practice called “targeted abstinence”. And they’re curious if psychedelics could be a part of that.
“I think that psychedelics can highlight really how harmful other substances and those behaviors can be and help us look introspectively at our lives and at our past to really reflect on the actions that we were taking and help us wake up to the fact that we are addicts and alcoholics and that recovery from that is possible,” explains Negrin.
Kevin Franciotti, who’s involved in a similar group on the East Coast, Psychedelics in Recovery, that’s now mostly an online community, tells me many members of his group are seeking out psychedelics for similar reasons. Although he couldn’t get into too much detail to protect folks’ anonymity, he says psychedelics have been helpful for people in recovery for a number of reasons, including “cultivating a conscious contact with a higher power of their understanding, which is a key component of 12 step recovery. And admitting powerlessness and then seeking the guidance from a trusting and loving power greater than oneself.” Franciotti also says he’s heard of a member using mushrooms for deeper insights into AA “step work”. For example, when it’s time to make amends with the people in their lives who they hurt with their addiction and related behaviors, they go to a mushroom trip to help them realize who else they might have hurt that they’re forgetting.
Yet even though intentional psychedelic use can seem like a good compliment to recovery, bringing this stuff up at an AA or NA meeting is risky. Most members of the program won’t want to hear it, it’s not an accepted part of the program, regardless if AA Founder Bill Wilson had life-changing LSD experiences, and so could get you ostracized from recovery communities. But that’s why groups like Psychedelics in Recovery are so important, to give a support network to folks who are trying to navigate this delicate and controversial landscape.
The Psychedelics and Addiction Recovery Movement
A new non-profit in the psychedelic community, Project New Day, is looking to support these recovery groups. Founded by Mike Sinyard and Allison Feduccia, PhD, Director and Co-Founder of Psychedelic.Support (a psychedelic integration resource), they’re inspired by psychedelic experiences helping folks overcome their addictions, and want to give back to that community. For their first order of business, they created an advisory board of four clinicians and five people who are already involved in psychedelic recovery support groups, including Negrin and Franciotti.
Feduccia says their next step is to create tangible materials, like pamphlets, for folks that go to these support groups and their family members who might be concerned about using one substance to get over another. They’re also planning on helping these support groups develop exercises they can engage participants in, as well provide referrals to clinicians for group members with more severe issues. Overall, Feduccia says they want to establish and promote best practices for such groups, and then help to promote them to a wider audience. She explains part of the plan is to expand Psychedelic.Support to include more support groups and to allow reviews. They’re also planning on providing grants to people who want to start these types of groups in their area, and to eventually expand beyond talking circles to more nature-based integration groups, like hiking or biking together.
“We’re just really in that phase of [exploring], what does the community need? How can we provide resources, information, connection to other people in a way to advance these groups?” says Feduccia. “[We’re] thinking of it as a way of modernizing an AA type program, which is really abstinence-based. We want to make this a little bit more inclusive for people as these [psychedelic-assisted] treatments become more readily available.”
Psychedelics and Addiction Recovery—A Deep Personal Journey and Decision
And a modernized, more harm-reduction focused approach to AA is desired by many in the community. Either because they find AA to be too restrictive, or like in the case of Ethan Covey, photographer and co-Founder of the Psychedelic Sangha group in NYC, they get the help they need from AA, but eventually outgrow it and are ready to move on. In Covey’s case, after four and a half years of following the program, he felt confident that his mindset and lifestyle had changed enough – away from his destructive addictive behaviors that opioids caused him – to cautiously dip his toes in psychedelic waters for personal and spiritual growth. Perhaps, psychedelic experiences could augment his new sober lifestyle. “I really felt like I learned the lessons that I needed to learn [regarding my own addictive behaviors]. And I started questioning whether the appropriate response to that was just to continue to check off time,” he says.
Covey explains, to get to that point, he really needed those four and half substance-free years to work on himself and change his lifestyle. “But as years went by doing that, I got to a point where I became very confident in my ability to not do the things that I know I shouldn’t do.” For Covey, that means maintaining an opioid-free, and for now, alcohol-free lifestyle. While telling me this story, he’s super cautious and stops himself more than once to tell me, “This is very difficult to talk about because I most definitely don’t want to say that my experience is what anyone else would experience, you know?”
And he’s right, everyone who struggles with addiction and substance misuse/abuse is on their own very individual journey. While consciously augmenting sobriety with psychedelics might work for some, it certainly doesn’t for others. For example, even though Franciotti is passionate about psychedelics in recovery, and has helped to write safety guidelines for such use, he tells me he’s not currently using psychedelics (or any substances) since his last relapse in 2018.
Ibogaine in a clinical setting helped to get him clean, but a few years later, he helped to organize an ibogaine conference in Mexico where he would have the opportunity to take a low dose. He debated with himself for months leading up, and at the same time, was going through a period of distance from his recovery community. So when the iboga opportunity fell through at the last minute, he instead spontaneously took an unknown amount of LSD in what he sees now as impulsive drug-seeking behavior and a “fear of missing out.” Even though he considered that LSD experience to be reckless and he tried to adhere more closely to an abstinence approach afterward, it was a catalyst to beginning a full-blown relapse. Not long after, he purchased a kilo of Kratom because he heard the DEA planned to ban the substance and that eventually led him back into the arms of his problem substance: opioids.
This type of narrative is a main concern for folks who attend Psychedelics in Recovery groups, that psychedelic use is considered a relapse or can push them over the edge back to the substance that causes them the most problems. Or, another related fear that Negrin points out, that they’ll replace one substance with another, like get off prescription anti-anxiety or depression meds, only to become reliant on microdosing psychedelics.
There’s also some concern around the addictive potential of psychedelics. Unlike other substances, classic psychedelics like magic mushrooms aren’t really considered addictive because they don’t promote compulsive use like opioids, meth, or alcohol. Plus, with most psychedelics, you can’t really use them to numb yourself and escape your problems like other substances. Instead, many psychedelics offer a deeper dive into those feelings, or a new perspective on your deeply held beliefs, and that can be too uncomfortable to dive back into day in and day out.
Yet that’s not to say people can’t develop problematic relationships with psychedelics. Not to stigmatize any substance further, but there’s definitely cases of people developing problematic relationships with LSD, MDMA/ecstasy, and Ketamine, particularly. But people can become “addicted” to all sorts of things, including food, sex, sugar, exercise, shopping, stealing, gambling, the list is endless. It really depends on the person and how they’re actively engaging these dopamine-releasing activities. And that’s another reason why support groups specifically for psychedelics in addiction recovery are so important, to help people navigate this tricky landscape and hold themselves and each other accountable.
If you’re in active recovery or addiction and this resonated with you, everyone I spoke to for this story recommended really checking in with yourself before engaging in any psychedelic use and taking a harm reduction approach. So be honest with yourself on your motives or intentions for use, and seek ample community support. Whether that’s your sponsor, close friends, family, partner(s), or support groups like Psychedelics in Recovery (or a combination of all of the above), because honesty, openness, and community are crucial to avoiding old, problematic, addictive behavior patterns. But psychedelics aren’t for everyone, so really do your homework before embarking on any kind of chemically-induced journey, and always practice safe use.
About the Author
Michelle Janikian is a journalist focused on drug policy, trends, and education. She’s the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, and her work has also been featured in Playboy, DoubleBlind Mag, High Times, Rolling Stone and Teen Vogue. One of her core beliefs is ending the prohibition of drugs can greatly benefit society, as long as we have harm reduction education to accompany it. Find out more on her website: www.michellejanikian.com or on Instagram @michelle.janikian.
In this episode, Joe invites previous guest, Dena Justice back on the show to continue the conversation on Neuro Linguistic Programming and non-ordinary states of consciousness.
3 Key Points:
93% of what we do on a day to day basis, is unconscious. If we can figure out how to work with that 93%, then we can really do some important things.
A lot of times we aren’t happy with our behavior, first we have to distinguish between cause and effect. With effect, you blame other people, but when you’re a cause in your life, you’re taking responsibility for what’s happening.
Creating new habits is hard at the conscious level, because it requires conscious thought. NLP focuses on the unconscious.
Show Notes
Last Episode
93% of what we do on a day to day basis, is unconscious
If we can figure out how to work with that 93%, then we can really do some important things
Communicating with the unconscious mind is kind of how we communicate with ourselves
NLP is all about our nervous system and what is coming in with our 5 senses, then the linguistic part is all about how we communicate what is happening in the body
NLP basically creates all of our behavior
The more we are able to understand how our unconscious mind works, the better we are able to get the outcomes we actually want
Outcomes
A lot of times we aren’t happy with our behavior
First we have to distinguish between cause and effect
When you’re at effect, you blame other people, but when you’re a cause in your life, you’re taking responsibility for what’s happening
“When we can help people be more at cause, they get those desired outcomes, and people start to get to where they want to go in life” – Dena
Perception is Projection
Whatever you’re believing that which is outside of yourself, it’s actually a reflection of you
Dena said that she won’t go to fitness classes simply because of the language they use
Altering your state through movement makes a person very vulnerable and the language can be very suggestive
What are we subjecting ourselves to everyday? When we sit down to watch TV or movies, we are in a trance-like state
Dena suggests being very careful to be aware of what we let in
Getting rid of barriers and obstacles to get where you want in life is the goal for NLP
Prepping the Unconscious Mind
Going to the gym is a habit so many people want to have and don’t
Creating new habits is hard at the conscious level, because it requires conscious thought
When we try to make decisions at the conscious level, it gets really difficult
“All learnings and behaviors, happen at the unconscious level” – Dena
“How many times did you have to tie your shoes consciously, before you tied your shoes, unconsciously?” – Dena
Most people don’t have good language running in the background, and that is a big reason why people are stuck in poor behaviors
Prime Directives of the Unconscious Mind
We create gestalts of emotions and experiences
A gestalt looks like a pearl necklace, and they are all related to each other
All of our experiences of our emotions (ex. anger) all get hooked together like a necklace
It’s a way that our mind organizes the information
When we learn to re-frame intentionally, we can take it as a tool into non-ordinary states of consciousness
Re-framing
In psychedelic experiences, we are re-framing the conscious mind, we shake loose of our gestalts
“We need to learn new tools in order to directly communicate with the unconscious mind” – Dena
When we can get to the ‘aha’ moment, we can create change more quickly
Limiting beliefs and negative emotions get in the way
Getting rid of limiting beliefs causes massive aligned action which leads to massive life change
Tools
Our unconscious mind loves following instructions
We tell the mind so many don’ts, ‘don’t cross the street, don’t walk on the grass, etc
We need to tell the mind exactly what to do
People are really clear about what they don’t want, but they aren’t always clear on what they do want
7% of what we are saying are just words, the other 93% is is how we say it, our emotions, our infections, are body positions, etc
Joe mentions somatic techniques, but that only goes so far, NLP takes it home
We learn language, but we don’t learn to be effective communicators
Workshop
Joe, Kyle and Dena are talking about doing a 5-day breathwork and NLP workshop in Sonoma, CA
Breathwork is such an amazing tool for non-ordinary state of consciousness
Until more news is released about the retreat/workshop, Dena invites listeners to take her course over at her website, Ecstatic Collective
As a master manifester, Dena has created a beautiful life for herself. She been financially responsible since age 15 including putting herself through college, two masters degrees and purchasing her own home in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has made over $1M in her life through a fulfilling career as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor and coach working with thousands of people across the country. She loved her career, yet hit a point where she felt empty. Near the top of her career ladder, she was a classic case of a high performer and leader hitting burnout. She chose a powerful pivot out of her J-O-B and into her own business. Now, she helps other high performers who have hit burnout and are scared to admit they’ve hit a plateau or a wall. She helps them get the eff out of their own way and move to the next level to increase their impact so they feel fulfilled and inspired again, as well as helping them create more wealth and the relationships they want in their lives. She helps people experience new levels of success, increase/improve focus and performance, abolish FOMO, evolve communication skills, develop transformational leadership skills, create amazing relationships, increase financial abundance and live life on their own terms.
In today’s Solidarity Friday’s episode with Kyle and Joe, they cover current events on COVID-19, social media narratives, a new world, psycho-pharma, psychedelic VICE articles, movies about acid and more.
Show Notes
Coronavirus
Joe and his girlfriend are recovering from being sick, potentially coronavirus (they weren’t allowed to be tested without being hospitalized)
Joe said he was really sick in a new and novel way
Kyle is located in New Jersey (currently around 19,000 cases, close to 250 deaths)
He has a weak immune system, so he is trying to be super careful by staying isolated (he hasn’t left the house in weeks besides to go on a walk outside)
Joe says this whole thing is really going to impact humanity and life on earth
The ecosystem of commerce is fragile and this is a strong way of showing it
Kyle says that Drumpf estimated 250,000 deaths in the US
Joe says we are going to get through this, and life will go on, but what will that look like?
How can the conscious show up as leaders?
When we are in a fear state, we don’t make rational decisions
Narratives
Kyle says all of the psychedelic people that he is connected to on social media are posting so much on 5G right now
There are dual narratives, like people dying, but also a lot of info on conspiracies
What do we pay attention to, and what is really happening?
Joe said that he played in the conspiracy, occult area for a while, and he couldn’t find any solid ground
In times like this, the conspiracy media ramps up, because people are afraid, and that impairs cognition
There is a lot of media saying that COVID-19 is a biological weapon
There is a lot of unknowns, and how do we not panic?
Processing All of This
We were not evolved for this moment
Now, how do we evolve to handle this stuff?
How do we build resilience?
As ecosystems collapse, some organisms start to mingle with other organisms and then viruses like this can come up, and will pop up more in the future
We are in a spiritual emergence-y right now, we need to bring up our shadow and do the work
What can I actually do in my life right now? Instead of worrying about everything
A New World
90% of products in the consumer economy right now are completely non-essential
We are on a finite planet with finite resources don’t mesh with infinite growth
Hopefully this is the emergency that we need to re-imagine the future
There is a role that the psychedelic community plays in this
The psychedelic culture is familiar with sitting with shadow, doing the inner work, and taking a creative approach at alternative systems and reimagining the future
Kyle says this feels psychedelic, having new ideas about what the future could look like, what we can offer the future
A lot of the things that we wish for are starting to unfold, in some sense, the collective has been wishing for the things that are happening
When we take substances, we are upgrading our operating system
Psycho-Pharma
MindMed (Mind Medicine) call themselves a leading neuro-pharma company for psychedelic inspired medicines
Right now they are working on a compound, essentially an iboga-like drug
There is a lot of suffering happening in the world, and whatever tools that can help with the suffering will do
There is a roller coaster of the psychedelic experience
If every experience was just rainbows and happiness, it would just devalue the human experience
Kyle says think about it, that sitting in a chair for a few hours with music can easily induce a psychedelic experience
Joe says “the experience is within you, the drug is a key to help unlock that”
Shadow Panel
Kyle is co-hosting a Shadow Panel with Ido Cohen and takes on a Jung approach to process the shadow
They host interviews with doctors and other speakers on the topic
They explore a lot of somatics in the shadow
It is a donation based course right now, potentially paid in the future
Final Thoughts
Joe says we are heavily impacted by COVID-19, a ton of breathwork events all had to be cancelled
But we have a ton of online courses and resources available, from integration books, to online guided therapist and clinician courses, to psychedelic online courses, coaching, and more
Joe said he had a fun conversation with a film producer (Malibu Road) on the acid scene in the 70’s
The film cant be streamed yet, but the trailer is out
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dylan Beynon, founder of Mindbloom, NYC based mental health and wellbeing platform. In the show they talk about how Mindbloom differs from other centers, paving the way for accessibility and affordability.
3 Key Points:
Mindbloom is a next-generation mental health platform, catered to accessibility and affordability.
They use ketamine tablets, different from lozenges and any other method. The tablets are held in the mouth and then spit out to avoid entering the liver, causing a sedation-like experience.
Mindbloom differentiates themselves from other psychedelic therapy options by using a patient-choice model, to keep it affordable for those who need it. They offer the 4-week therapy model and give patients the option to choose ‘add-ons’ like extra integration.
Dylan is not a clinician or a doctor, he is an entrepreneur and a psychedelic medicine and therapeutic ketamine patient
These medicines have been transformative in his life and he wants to bring their benefits to the public
He grew up in a family that suffered greatly from mental illness
He lost his mother to addiction
He discovered positive psychology
When learning about the science of happiness, he realized that he wasn’t happy
He was in business school and wanted to be a banker and make a ton of money
He soon realized that money doesn’t buy happiness, and he thought maybe everything he was doing was a lie
He was self medicating with psychedelics
About 5 years ago he heard about psychedelic therapy
About 18 months ago he started working with a clinician doing ketamine therapy
He saw that when it’s done in a therapeutic context, it can have a profound effect for people to get the most out of it
“Recreational vs therapeutic use is a false dichotomy” – Dylan
Mindbloom
The goal is to build the next-generation mental health platform
Right now they are doing Ketamine therapy
They are trying to make it accessible by making it affordable
They are trying to bring an elevated client experience, which they do with the space and software
Software Background
Voters Friend – a platform to help inform voters on the candidates, to increase access to democracy
Mighty – increasing access to social justice
Mindbloom – increase access to psychedelic medicines
Differentiation
The protocols that Mindbloom are using are capped
They are increasing access to the medicines, making it affordable
They keep it at $150-$250 a session, where at most Ketamine Therapy centers, it can range from $1000-$2000 a session
Dylan says he makes this possible by bringing in technology and software tools to make the sessions for efficient and effective
They use patient choice care, where the patient can use their best judgement on how in depth they want their treatment
They can ‘add on’ extra integration time onto the therapy session, or choose not to
This keeps the price down and accessible for each individual patient if need be
Mindbloom is a 4 session program, usually 1-2 months
They use the platform to have the client practice using the information in the weeks between each session, so they can practice integration even when not with a therapist or in session
The Program
The clinician prescribes a 4 week Ketamine Therapy session for anxiety and depression
The clinician will schedule a video interview to learn their symptoms
Then they will meet in person and build an integration program if needed
Its $1000 for the 4 session program and $600 for the renewal program
They use Ketamine tablets (similar to lozenges but faster acting)
They’re not swallowing it, they spit it out after
If they swallow it, it breaks down in the liver into nor-ketaine, and that produces a sedative effect
After they spit it out, there is about an hour of music with no vocals
After the session, they move to an integration room where they are journaling
The protocols at Mindbloom were based on the MAPS protocol
They don’t have a clinician in the room during the experience, only for after the experience
Dylan is looking to expand to other locations
A lot of people request couples or group therapies, so they will be taking that into consideration when building new locations
Final Thoughts
The more people who are thinking critically about this and putting their intentions into making this more accessible the better
There needs to be more gentle conversation around psychedelics and therapy, especially around the people that are still so unaware about this field
We should bring sacredness, specialness, and care to the conversation with those who might still be afraid about it
Dylan is the Founder & CEO of Mindbloom, an NYC-based mental health and wellbeing startup helping people expand their human potential with clinician-prescribed, guided psychedelic medicine experiences. There, he is partnering with clinicians, technologists, researchers, and patients to increase access to science-backed treatments, starting by reducing the cost of ketamine therapy for depression and anxiety by over 65%. Dylan is a 10-year psychedelic medicine patient and 3-time tech entrepreneur with both $100M+ in funding and an exit in his prior startups, which were focused on increasing access to justice and democracy. Dylan graduated from The Wharton School at The University of Pennsylvania.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Ryan Westrum, Psychedelic Integration Therapist. In the show, they talk about topics and teachings from Ryan’s book, The Psychedelic Integration Handbook.
3 Key Points:
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live.
There is an important part in distinguishing integration from aftercare. Aftercare can look as simple as taking care of your body, getting good rest, eating well. You can’t integrate without taking care of yourself first.
One of the pillars of integration is PREP (purpose, reflecting on experiences, expectations, potential).
“As a western civilization, we have really minimized the opportunity for growth, the expansion of consciousness, and to be ourselves.” – Ryan
These experiences are powerful, and to come back to a culture that does not support it, is hard
The goal is being conscious with your confidence of why you’re doing this work
About the Book
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live
This is not a book with black and white answers but an offering to individual people who want to explore all the possibilities for being alive and seeking wholeness.
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook contains historical perspective, maps of consciousness, approaches for integrating body-mind-spirit, and practical suggestions for all stages of psychedelic exploration.
The Psychedelics Integration Handbook
The book was written for people to make it their own
Its broken into 3 parts, educational, a ‘your turn’ section, and then integration
Its about having a compartment, and then playing within the compartment
Everyone has unique nuances, integration looks different to everyone
Integration practices don’t matter if they don’t personally mean something to you
Integration
The question to help determine the integration needs is, “What does the individual lead with?”
It’s the mind, body, emotion in the spirit altogether
Immediately after a psychedelic experience, some want to talk about it, others embody it
Do they lead with thoughts or emotions?
There is a part in the book: The difference between integration and aftercare
How do we distinguish between self care and integration?
Is my body rested? Am I comfortable? Are my needs taken care of?
Aftercare is grounding
“If you’re not taking care of your body, you won’t be able to integrate” – Ryan
It might not be as complex as it needs to be, its as simple as taking care of yourself
An important part of aftercare, is asking yourself when it is okay to practice again
Ryan was mentored by James Fadiman, and he believed in taking big doses every 6 months
One of the pillars is PREP (purpose, reflecting on experiences, expectations, potential)
Ryan says he is not the gatekeeper
Controlling willpower is a huge step in integration
Some people want to just take psychedelics, but not write, or do yoga, or do any other mindful activity
Safety
Dose, set and setting are the obvious
It’s like a goldrush, some just want to jump in blindly
You have to understand what safety means to you
Ryan thinks we aren’t talking enough about the recreational use
He is excited about all of the conversation on therapeutic use, but he thinks we are ignoring recreational use
He wants to see ritual and reverence in the recreational community
Preparation is so important
Kyle says that a lot of times after an experience he has all of these ideas for how to live his life, and he tries to practice them, but sometimes he finds himself slipping into old patterns of behavior
Ryan says he believes there is still movement and progress, be gentle with yourself
Dr. Ryan Westrum, PhD, LMFT, is an internationally recognized psychedelic integration expert. For more than 15 years, his primary focus has been working with individuals and groups facilitating experiential therapy and integrating psychedelic journeys into healing and personal transformation. Ryan speaks on a myriad of topics and leads experiential groups, like dreamwork integration therapy and psychedelic integration groups.
In this episode, Joe interviews Clinical Psychologist, Alicia Danforth. In the show, they cover topics including how to get involved in the space, consent, research, MDMA, Autism and more.
3 Key Points:
Alicia Danforth is a Clinical Psychologist who will be having a talk on Ethical Challenges in Psychedelic Medicine at the ICPR Conference in the Netherlands, April 2020.
There is a possibility for MDMA to have a non-responder effect. No one has done research dedicated to why some people don’t react at all to MDMA.
Psychedelic science is very hard to talk about. We have the language of science that studies the psychopharmacological effects of drugs but no language that holds the effects of an altered state of consciousness yet.
Her path to her current place is such a random road that led her to where she is
She was going to burning man and getting into harm reduction when she realized the untapped value of psychedelics, its where her interest began
She began volunteering, doing administrative work for a doctor
She was offered to be a study coordinator
She got introduced to the power of psilocybin as a medicine, for dying cancer patients
The patients had a prognosis from 6 months to a year
To see how this state of consciousness helped people transition to the end of life so smoothly, that is what inspired her
5 months after she started working on the study, she got a cancer diagnosis
Getting Involved in the Space
Alicia would always get people approaching her about how to get in the field and she tells them “what field?”
Her Power Point making skills, are what technically got her involved in this field
“You never know what skill may be needed in this field” – Alicia
Alicia encourages people to look into their own collection of skills, and dig deep into that, find your niche, and then use that to contribute to the movement
Clinical therapists and psychologists are not the only people in this field We need accountants, marketers, etc
Consent
People start to get really religious around this field
Joe mentions a story where someone performed non-consensual reiki
Current Research
She is currently looking at why psychedelics appeal to people who typically like to abuse power
She did a talk at burning man about ‘coming down from the psychedelic power trip’
She tries to cite as many references and research as possible
Her talk at ICPR is going to be the very professional, version of that talk
Why are individuals who seek to abuse these tools so irresistibly drawn to psychedelics?
“If someone gets abused, and people say don’t come out about it because it’s not good for the movement, then what kind of movement is that?” – Joe
Empathogens
MDMA is known as an Empathogen
Can empathogens help people who are not empathetic, become empathetic?
Cohen’s D is the measure of effect size
Big pharma uses this all the time, to determine the effects of one drug compared to another
The Cohen’s D is how large that difference is
Non-response MDMA
There is a known, non-responder effect with MDMA
There was a few double-blind sessions, where the patient received MDMA, and they didn’t react, their vitals didn’t change
At the end, it was revealed that they truly received MDMA, and then even to be sure, they would do a blood test, and it showed up in the blood
No one has done research dedicated to why some people don’t react at all to MDMA
It’s probably common, that for people who are relying on MDMA to work as their last resort option and try it and not feel anything at all, to end their life afterward
Media and Support
It’s the most difficult thing in dealing with the media
When you are entirely dependent on funding, if you don’t talk about what you’re doing, then you can’t get funding at all
There is a crisis in science on the replicability on these studies
Joe says its cool to have these studies replicated outside of the US
“Psychedelic science is very hard to talk about due to the subjective nature of the psychedelic experience. We have the language of science that studies the psychopharmacological effects of drugs. There is no language that holds the effects of an altered state of consciousness yet.” – Alicia
The rapport that the patient and facilitator have, and the effect of that relationship, is a variable
Alicia received her doctorate in clinical psychology from the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto in 2013. Since 2006, she has worked in clinical research at the Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center on clinical studies for adults with anxiety related to advanced-stage cancer and with autistic adults who experience social anxiety. She is currently a lead clinician and supervisor for a clinical trial at UCSF for psychological distress in long-term survivors of HIV/AIDS. She is also certified in Trauma-Focused CBT and Focusing-Oriented Psychotherapy.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Mike Margolies of Psychedelic Seminars. In the show, they cover topics including guests and conversations from the Psychedelic Seminars, the decriminalization of all drugs, and the importance of allowing psychedelic use to be a part of training therapists for psychedelic therapy.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic Seminars is an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics.
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but the conversation on decriminalization of all drugs is rare, which is what’s really important.
Some companies (MAPS for example) allow the option to use MDMA as a part of their therapist training program while other companies who are training therapists for psilocybin therapy, don’t have the option to use it. This leaves the question, “Should the psychedelic experience be part of the psychedelic therapy training?”
The talks were on microdosing and the unknowns of microdosing
Just because there is no real harms taking a large dose of LSD, doesn’t mean there aren’t any harms taking a low (micro) dose of LSD frequently
Mike thinks that the term Jim Fadiman uses is its ‘sub-perceptual’, in that you have a noticeable effect on the mood, but no other way of noticing it
Decriminalization
Drug Policy tends to stay in the realm of psychedelics only
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but no one likes to talk about the decriminalization of all drugs, which is what’s really important
Poppy is not considered in decriminalize nature, which is selective nature decriminalization
It’s not a real decriminalization, it’s just a low priority for law enforcement
He’s been asking in his conversations, opinions on decriminalizing all drugs
Different drugs have different risk profiles
“Just because you’re not using criminal justice as your mechanism for reducing risks of drugs, doesn’t mean you do nothing. The last thing we want to do is add criminalization to those who are already suffering, this is why we should decriminalize all drugs” – Mike
Laws should be written in terms of what are you not allowed to do, not what you’re allowed to do
He is allowed to walk down the sidewalk, but not punch someone he walks past, but the law shouldn’t be to get a license for walking down the street so long as you don’t punch someone
The communities that are marginalized continue to be marginalized by the drug war
Psychedelic Therapy and Experience with Use
With MAPS, there is an option to do MDMA as a part of the training
With psilocybin, at least with Compass Pathways, there is not an option to use psilocybin. Mike says that’s a huge issue
When you scale treatment, there is the risk of losing the quality of care
“We aren’t going to solve the problems of our future by mass distributing psychedelics” – Mike
The fact that we have such mass amounts of widespread depression, means that we have a deeply ingrained systemic issue at hand
Psychedelics treat the symptoms, but we still need to fix the underlying cause
“If you are distributing psychedelics, but still exacerbating the same underlying issues, you now have the problem and solution in the same hefty package” – Mike
“Psychedelic experience is intrinsically something spiritual. How can you guide someone in spiritual practice if you haven’t experienced it yourself?” – Mike
“Inducing a state intentionally, and guiding someone through a process, its completely unethical to guide someone through a spiritual process that you haven’t been through yourself.” – Mike
New Economy
Burning man is not a barter economy, it’s a gift economy, where things are given without an expectation of receiving something in return
We are far from that economy
What if we had a world where instead of trying to extract value, we were trying to create value?
Since 2015, Mark has worked full-time in the psychedelic community, starting and contributing to a number of projects as an event and media producer, connector, and advisor. He is the Founder of Psychedelic Seminars, an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics. On the PsychSems stage, he has interviewed a range of leaders including bestselling author Michael Pollan, Dr. James Fadiman and Ayelet Waldman on microdosing, and therapeutic ketamine expert Dr. Raquel Bennett. He started the project in 2015 after returning to his home city of Baltimore to build community for open and honest conversations about psychedelics. The project now operates primarily out of the San Francisco Bay Area and livestreams globally. Through his psychedelic community work in Baltimore, he seeded the Baltimore Psychedelic Society. He has sparked and mentored similar Psychedelic Societies around the world from Washington DC to San Francisco to Portugal. He helped start the Global Psychedelic Network to connect them.
If you want to learn how to become a psychedelic therapist, we’ve outlined the five main legal paths.
More people than ever are curious to try psychedelics for mental health and personal growth. But even though “psychedelic-assisted therapy” is going mainstream, the actual substances, like psilocybin, MDMA, LSD, and ayahuasca are still Schedule I substances in the U.S. Yet despite their illegality, doctors and therapists are regularly getting inquiries from their clients about psychedelics for addiction, PTSD, depression, and more. So, what can professionals do to start working with psychedelics—legally?
How to Become a Psychedelic Therapist Path One: Legally Facilitating Psychedelic Journeys
At the moment in the US, the only way for clinicians to legally facilitate psychedelic experiences with MDMA or psilocybin is in a clinical trial (we’ll get to substances like cannabis and ketamine below). These trials are being held at select universities in the US, like Johns Hopkins, NYU, and others. Each substance requires their own training by the different organizations that sponsor these trials. In the case of MDMA, that training is provided by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), and for psilocybin, it’s provided by either Compass Pathways or the Usona Institute, depending on the trial.
MAPS is currently training physicians (MDs, DOs, psychiatrists, and other “eligible prescribers”) as well as licensed therapists to work on phase 3 clinical trials using MDMA for PTSD and to form therapy pairs to open potential “expanded access” sites in the near future. MAPS training consists of five parts, beginning with an online course, which covers the basics from their treatment manual as well as recent scientific research and study protocols.
For part B, trainees attend a 7-day in-person retreat with “senior MDMA-assisted psychotherapy researchers,” which is often Michael and Annie Mithoefer. “[the Mithoefers] are really the core people that have been doing this since the beginning,” says Angie Leek, MA, LMFT who completed Parts A and B of the training in 2019.“Even if I never get to do this work – which I hope I do – but even if not, it was phenomenal,” elaborates Leek. “It influenced my clinical work without being able to do the MDMA part, for sure.”
Then, parts C, D, and E become more hands-on and include days of experiential learning with an opportunity to have an MDMA session, a day of role-playing, and then, supervision and evaluation of trainees’ first few sessions.
While getting trained to work with MDMA may seem simple and straightforward, the problem is that the training isn’t free. In fact, it’s out of budget for many, especially on a therapist’s salary. For instance, because Leek doesn’t live near a clinical trial site, she has decided not to complete training until the future of the therapy is more concrete. Until then, she can’t afford to keep paying out of pocket. She tells Psychedelics Today she paid $3,500 for the first two parts of the training, and she was told completing all 5 parts costs $7,000. As of now, MAPS has not announced training costs for 2020. Interested clinicians can apply for MAPS MDMA training here.
To work with psilocybin, professionals are trained by either Compass Pathways or the Usona Institute, however (as far as I can tell) training to work with either of these organizations is not currently open to the public. At the moment, only research professionals at universities hosting this research can currently be trained to work with psilocybin.
It’s also important to note that both MDMA- and psilocybin-assisted therapies are on track to become legal, FDA-approved medications for specific conditions in the near future. The FDA has granted both substances “breakthrough therapy status” which fast-tracks them for approval. According to MAPS’s Director of Communications, Brad Burge, MDMA is expected to be approved for the treatment of PTSD by 2021. Yet, in an email, Burge tells Psychedelics Today that MDMA could become available for expanded access in as soon as a few months.
The expanded access program, also known as “compassionate use”, gives patients with life-threatening conditions the right to obtain and use unapproved drugs and medical devices outside of clinical trials. In early 2019, MAPS applied for expanded access for MDMA to treat PTSD, considering the high risk of suicide those with treatment-resistant PTSD face, and it’s expected to pass in early 2020. Therefore, many trained MDMA-assisted therapists and prescribing physicians could be needed very soon to open expanded access MDMA sites around the US.
Which is why another route many in this field consider is applying to the California Institute for Integral Studies (CIIS) Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research. This one-year long certificate program is an in-depth study on psychedelic-assisted therapy and research, taught by the leading experts in the field, including Anthony Bossis, Rick Doblin, Charles Grob, and Michael and Annie Mithoefer. The program is only available to licensed professionals, like licensed family therapists, medical doctors, and registered nurses. Plus, acceptance into the program is competitive. According to an email CIIS sent to a recent applicant, they will be accepting a total of 75 students for their class of 2020, meaning one in four applicants will be admitted.
The program is completely accredited and considered the most prestigious training for psychedelic-therapists, yet completing the certificate does not guarantee graduates the ability to work with psychedelic substances or even on clinical trials. After completing the certificate, graduates will still have to undergo training from organizations like MAPS, Usona or Compass, and pay for it themselves.
Path Two: Training in Trauma and Transpersonal Psychology
Before professionals jump right into psychedelic-assisted therapy training, there are a few schools of psychological thought and therapy modalities they can get familiar with that can inform their work with “non-ordinary states of consciousness”.
For instance, although CIIS’s psychedelic therapy program may not be the best fit for everyone right now, two therapists we spoke to for this story received their master’s degrees from the university, and chose it for its focus on transpersonal psychology.
Transpersonal psychology is a school of psychological theory that considers the spiritual and transcendent aspects of life alongside modern psychological thinking, and it has been used by professionals to help folks work through altered states for decades. If you’re interested in learning more, check out the books and articles by Stanislav Grof as well as educational programs at Sofia University and Naropa University.
Another important area to be well versed in professionally before working with psychedelics is trauma. In fact, all the experts we spoke to for this story stressed the importance of training in different trauma modalities, especially somatic practices, as well as understanding and being comfortable with transference and projection. This level of comfort comes from both training in the subject matter and doing your own inner work.
While some of the training programs we’ve listed cover these issues, both Leek and Saj Razvi of Innate Path recommended Peter Levine’s Somatic Experiencing training as an informational and trustworthy source of trauma and somatic therapy work. Other integration coaches and therapists have also recommended the Hakomi Institute, a body-centered, trauma-based psychotherapy method that helps people work with strong emotions through mindfulness and guided meditations.
And of course, many in this field stress the importance of professionals doing their own inner work with psychedelics as an important aspect of training. While this can be contested in the community, it does seem like processing one’s own non-ordinary states of consciousness can help others do the same. For now, MAPS’s MDMA training does include an opportunity for clinicians to receive their own MDMA-assisted therapy session. While the CIIS program does not currently include any medicine work, they do incorporate opportunities for transpersonal breathwork and other drug-free forms of altering consciousness.
Path Three: Psychedelic Integration Therapy Training
Both therapists I spoke with for this piece, Robin Kurland, LMFT and Angie Leek, LMFT, told me they’d be interested in getting trained to facilitate psychedelic-assisted therapy in clinical trials, but haven’t found the whole process to be very accessible, especially considering the uncertainty of this work, it’s just not worth it to shell out over $10k for training. However, they both found a compromise in offering their clients “psychedelic integration therapy.”
Unlike psychedelic-assisted therapy, integration therapists do not provide clients with any type of guided psychedelic trip. They can, however, help interested folks in preparing for and then integrating their psychedelic experiences by discussing what it means to them and how they can use any insights or realizations they had in their everyday lives. It’s a very new thing for licensed therapists to offer even though psychedelic therapists in clinical trials and underground have been providing clients with prep and integration sessions for decades. But with the increased interest in this work and in people trying substances on their own or at retreats abroad for healing, aboveground therapists have begun helping people navigate the sometimes tricky emotions that come before and after these peak experiences.
Training for psychedelic integration is limited but exists and is growing quickly. The organization Fluence, based in New York City, hosts accredited classes for interested clinicians, called “Psychedelics 101 and 102” taught by Elizabeth Nielson, Ph.D. and Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D. In their two-day long workshop, they cover everything doctors didn’t learn in medical school about psychedelics, from past and present research to harm reduction and how to help clients prepare for and integrate their sometimes troubling experiences. Gorman and Nielson are also hosting a 3-day long retreat this January 17-20, 2019 in the Catskills, New York called “Psychedelic Integration in Psychotherapy: A Retreat for Clinicians.”
There are also options for life coaches and other interested individuals who are not necessarily licensed doctors and therapists. One popular choice is Being True to You (BTTY), which offers a four-month long, psychedelic integration coach training program that’s completely online for $3,500.
Here at Psychedelics Today, our founders Joe Moore and Kyle Buller also host an online course for clinicians, therapists, and coaches looking to expand their knowledge of psychedelic research and provide psychedelic integration to clients. The next eight-week live online course is enrolling now and begins on February 6th, 2020. The first four weeks cover the basics, including the history of psychedelic research, safety tips like preparation and navigating the space, and an intro to Stanislav Grof’s transpersonal psychology framework. Then in weeks 5 through 8, classes get more specific to clinicians, and cover topics like how to support psychedelic-curious clients, how to help clients integrate their experiences, and how to navigate the legal and ethical considerations.
MAPS is also a source of psychedelic integration education and has provided webinars as well as in-person training sessions in the past. This year, MAPS is planning another webinar series for April 2020 with a session on integration, Burge confirms. “Integration tends to be one of the most popular topics we address in our webinars, conferences, and educational materials,” Burge says.
Despite recent training offerings, many psychedelic integration therapists can still get frustrated by this work, mostly because it has to be substance-free at the moment. Kurland says she mostly worries about people taking mushrooms by themselves in less than ideal situations. “That’s really why I want to hurry and get the ball rolling with the FDA and have that certificate [from CIIS]. I would love to just be able to say, I’m going to sit with you and you’re going to be safe. I’m going to hold space for you and whatever comes up, we’re going to work through it and I’ll be there to hold your hand,” says Kurland.
Path Four: Working with Legal Altered States of Consciousness: Cannabis, Ketamine, and Transpersonal Breathwork
A new option emerging in this field is working with legal or prescription substances, like cannabis and ketamine. Psychiatrists already have the ability to give ketamine to patients in their offices as an “off-label use” for treatment-resistant depression, PTSD, and other conditions. It’s becoming increasingly popular, with ketamine infusion clinics opening around the US. Naturally, there are a number of ketamine training programs emerging alongside. So many, in fact, that we decided to dedicate a whole future piece on ketamine-therapy training, so keep an eye out.
Then there’s cannabis, which many argue is psychedelic in its own right and is legal in a majority of states for adult or medical use. And there are two programs in Colorado taking advantage of that fact. The first was Medicinal Mindfulness; they offer group psychedelic cannabis ceremonies, 1:1 cannabis therapy sessions, and now, cannabis “trip-sitting” training for any interested party.
There is also Innate Path, who began offering cannabis-assisted therapy to clients in 2018 in a very similar fashion to psychedelic therapy, and are now offering training to professionals. Innate Path co-founder and Director of Education, Saj Razvi tells me his cannabis-assisted therapists don’t actually give clients any weed, the client has to bring their own, which avoids any legal conflicts. This allows providers to practice psychedelic therapy before MDMA or psilocybin pass through the FDA, and if it catches on, has the potential to expand access drastically.
Razvi explains the cannabis-assisted therapy modality he and his co-founders have been developing over the course of several years is very body-focused and influenced by his own work as an MDMA-assisted therapist in MAPS’s phase 2 clinical trials, as well as the work of Peter Levine and Eugene Gendlin, the theorist, and philosopher who inspired Levine. At Innate Path’s training workshops, they teach therapists their somatic method, transference work, and psychedelic-therapy principals, which they use for both ketamine and cannabis-assisted therapy.
Of course, there is also the option of working with non-substance induced altered states of consciousness. “Holotropic” or “transpersonal” breathwork is a non-ordinary state very similar or indistinguishable from the psychedelic experience for many. Developed by Stanislav and Christina Grof, they have their own training program called Grof Transpersonal Training (GTT) that teaches practitioners to facilitate and process breathwork experiences with clients.
Dreamshadow Holotropic Breathwork is another group of trustworthy breathwork facilitators who offer an educational training program. Their founders, Lenny and Elizabeth Gibson, are colleagues and close friends of the Grof’s and are also who trained Psychedelics Today founders, Joe Moore and Kyle Buller, in this work.
Path Five: Trip Sitting
For clinicians and non-professional folk alike, getting trained to trip sit by MAPS’s Zendo Project is a great entry into the world of psychedelics. Zendo sets up shop at music festivals like Burning Man to provide a safe and tranquil place for people going through difficult psychedelic experiences to come and relax. They train sitters to be a calm and supportive presence for trippers without “guiding” their experience in any direction.
Zendo hosts trip sitting training workshops around the US to prepare interested participants for volunteering at events, and is a great way to learn the basics of “holding space” and to get experience working with those under the influence of a psychedelic substance. Zendo also has great resources for interested folk, like webinars and their book, The Manual of Psychedelic Support.
All in all, there are many options for all skill sets and types of professionals to get involved in this work. While becoming a psychedelic therapist right now might be expensive, it is possible. For those who can’t budget the risk until this therapy becomes more available, there are plenty of other options with lower price tags. We hope this piece cleared up some misconceptions in the community and can help folks choose the right path for them.
We realize there are also underground training options but they can be unreliable and hard to vet, so we decided to only focus on aboveground options for this piece.
About the Author
Michelle Janikian is a journalist focused on drug policy, trends, and education. She’s the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, and her work has also been featured in Playboy, DoubleBlind Mag, High Times, Rolling Stone and Teen Vogue. One of her core beliefs is ending the prohibition of drugs can greatly benefit society, as long as we have harm reduction education to accompany it. Find out more on her website: www.michellejanikian.com or on Instagram @michelle.janikian.
Given the overall state of the world’s mental health, this research is sorely needed, and long-overdue. With the kind of success rates we’ve been seeing, with lasting relief sometimes from one or a few sessions, it’s reasonable to predict that these remarkable substances will play an increasingly important role in the treatment of many mental illnesses, and hopefully will also be sanctioned for safe use in other contexts, as well.
While their effectiveness is becoming more and more established, psychedelics’ “mechanism of action” is perplexing to many psychologists, particularly to believers in prevailing ideas about mental illness and treatment. They’re clearly working, but why or how are they working? What is the cognitive or neurological basis for their sometimes near-miraculous treatment success?
One thing that’s not yet being discussed enough is how the high success rate of psychedelic therapies can be seen as a challenge to dominant mainstream paradigms about psychiatric epidemiology (the study of what causes mental illnesses), particularly the reductionist biological chemical imbalance theory, and related ideas. While we’ve all heard psychedelics are working, the largely untold story is how the way they seem to work should cast doubt on prevailing theories of mental illness.
Reductionism in Psychology
Psychology today has become dominated by the idea that most common mental disorders, particularly mood disorders like depression, can be explained by reducing mental activity to things like chemical imbalances in the brain, a wrench in the neurochemical gears so-to-speak, which are generally more or less random and/or biologically predetermined. While the psychological sciences have acknowledged more recently that depression is more complex than that, the idea remains prevalent among psychiatrists, and the overall view of mental illness in general remains mechanical and biological.
In other words, scientific reductionism in psychology dominates the scene, and determines how mental illnesses are understood, and treated. Like the universe itself, according to philosophical materialism which many think of as “the scientific worldview”, mental illness is considered a random, meaningless occurrence, which is best controlled by adding new chemicals to the brain to offset the error, and perhaps implementing cognitive-behavioral changes through the efforts of the conscious, rational mind. We are biological robots in a meaningless universe, and mental illness is like a computer malfunctioning.
There are many reasons for objecting to biological reductionism in psychology, but the general idea is that a sizeable dissenting minority of psychologists believe reducing everything to brain chemistry and other scientifically measurable variables isn’t enough when it comes to understanding the human mind. Even in a purely materialistic universe, the inability to account for the role of emergent qualities in psychological health goes largely ignored, under this model. While this skepticism of the reduction of the psyche is a powerful intuition in itself, there are also good reasons for believing in the limitations of biopsychiatry on a rational basis, as well.
Psychology has a rich history of non-reductive theories which emerged from other types of methods of investigation, including the humanistic and depth psychology traditions, as well as transpersonal and contemplative approaches, to name a few. Could these now alternative theories of the mind help us understand the findings of the psychedelic renaissance; to go even further, could their legitimacy even be implied by psychedelic experiences, themselves?
These alternative perspectives often pertain to branches of psychology which recognize and deal with things outside the purview of biopsychiatry (meaning things that aren’t so easy to measure), and which aren’t taken seriously by materialism. These include phenomena such as the dynamic between the conscious and unconscious mind, and its importance to psychological well-being, and potentially transcendental components of the human psyche, or at least the importance of transcendental states of consciousness. Because they are difficult to measure and prove, all these are things which the biopsychiatry crowd usually relegates to the realm of pseudoscience, or speculative fancy, and denies their very existence.
Yet, in light of the therapeutic and transformative effect of psychedelics, these ousted theories do seem to be granted a rise in validity. This is not to say that the findings of cognitive neuroscience research into psychedelics are no longer relevant, but an honest assessment of the psychedelic experience in all it’s profound strangeness coupled with its therapeutic success should at least call reductive assumptions into question. If psychedelic experiencers and researchers observe the emergence of unconscious material, and mystical or other non-ordinary states of consciousness, and these seem to act almost like a miracle cure for many of our psychological ailments, why should we ignore what that implies about the ailments themselves?
Depths and Heights Encroaching
The problem (for reductive explanations) is that some of the findings of psychedelic research indicate that their unique action, which can sometimes bring almost overnight cures or at least long-lasting one-time treatments, may pertain to both the emergence of psychological content from the unconscious mind, and also their ability to take people to the heights of human mystical experience. Most people who have encountered psychedelics in culture know of the profound realizations or otherworldly qualities they’re said to have, and in the lab, they are not so different. What’s surprising to those totally disconnected from the very idea of spirituality is that they work so well.
It’s not uncommon to hear recipients of psychedelic therapy say things like, “It was like years of therapy in one night,” or therapists reporting that “Miracles are becoming — not mundane, but pretty normal around here.” Since psychedelics are being found to accelerate psychotherapy by allowing people to discover underlying issues which had been inaccessible to normal therapeutic practices, this arguably implies that there are unconscious elements that influence and perhaps cause mental illnesses, a view long held by depth psychology known as psychodynamics.
Although the unconscious is not necessarily outright rejected by all cognitive scientists, some of whom have proposed a more reductive “New Unconscious”, it has generally been rebuked or deemphasized by the more science-oriented modern trend in psychiatry. The subjective psychedelic experiences of therapy recipients where unconscious material seems to be brought to the surface of consciousness, therefore, calls this rejection into question and deserves further investigation. This is compounded when some neuroscience indicates the validity of psychodynamic models, as well.
While psychedelics’ effects on the unconscious psychodynamics are only slightly explored in the literature, psychedelic mystical experience is a far more heavily researched topic, and its long-lasting psychological benefits have been a central point of the larger discourse around psychedelic research since the time of the Good Friday experiment, in 1962. Some have noted that the benefits of psychedelic mystical experience may relate to their ability to enhance the perception of meaning, another area where science remains agnostic beyond questionnaire measurements. The phenomenon of ego dissolution, where a person’s sense of self is temporarily obliterated to be born anew like a phoenix, also seems to be a major part of what creates these transformative effects.
Tracing from Cure to Cause
Although we typically approach illness by first investigating its cause and then using that knowledge to find its treatment, it is possible to do the reverse, when effective treatments already exist. We can learn more about the cause of a problem through what treats it best; in this case, a better understanding of the epidemiology of mental disorders may be derived from the very fact that the psychedelic experience treats or resolves them better than other methods, and this is most pointedly true in the case of depression.
The negative implications of psychedelics’ success for the chemical imbalance theory of depression aren’t difficult to see. Conventional biopsychiatry wisdom says that depression is a random chemical imbalance, although in more recent years they have broadened it to include “caused by a combination of genetic, biological, environmental, and psychological factors. (NIMH)” The ability of psychedelic mystical experiences to drastically improve or even cure depression, potentially by enhancing meaning, should be a clue that depression may have causes which are simply difficult to measure, and therefore not amenable to a scientific definition.
For instance, some have proposed that a major part of the epidemic of depression is something deeper than a mere chemical imbalance, but is instead a side-effect of a cultural swing towards the philosophy of materialism. Of course, many deny this connection, or even that materialism is inherently depressing, but it’s hard not to see this as straw-grasping. You don’t have to have a doctorate in philosophy to recognize that scientific materialism is dreary, as it basically tells us that we are little more than dust in the wind of a meaningless, purposeless, cold and cruel universe. To deny the inherent bleakness of this perspective is an exercise in futility; I won’t belabor the point here. What’s worse, this is now put forward as the intellectually orthodox worldview.
Naturally, this is not to say that scientific materialism and its intrinsic nihilism are the only reason that people get depressed; no doubt, various factors like economic disparity and poverty, political chaos, childhood development issues, and trauma play a huge part. Regardless, the fact that psychedelic experiences both help with depression and tend to make people more spiritually-minded should give the bio-centric psychiatrists pause. Just because it’s difficult to measure or explain, is it really so hard to see how psychedelics’ ability to show that we might be more than just space dust successfully treats people’s depression, and that this might shed light on a major cause or contributor to the disease itself?
A War of Ideas On the Battlefield of the Mind, and It’s Casualties
The point of critiquing reductionism in psychology is not that we should leave the psychiatric sciences behind us, but rather that a pluralism of methodologies and theoretical approaches have their place, in our quest to understand and heal the human mind. Measuring the activity and chemical levels of the brain during mental illness, or during the psychedelic experiences that seem to treat them, need not lessen or replace other theoretical systems, but instead can supplement them. It doesn’t have to be either/or.
This seems like a fairly pragmatic, diplomatic, and agreeable assessment, but unfortunately, psychology has become a casualty to a much larger ideological war of scientism against all things immeasurable. Psychology is merely one domain, one battlefield in this philosophical conquest, but a critically important one because so much of our suffering or well-being hinges on our having the best understanding of the human mind we can achieve.
One result of this parsing out of anything that can’t be scanned, measured, or repeated in a lab is that the default treatment for mental disorders has become (conveniently for pharmaceutical giants) psychoactive daily medications like antidepressants. We have reached a point in psychiatry where the central goal is essentially to chemically engineer the population’s neuro-soup, until all can be productive members of society, ideally in a way that is highly profitable. The fact that antidepressants aren’t really working comes as no surprise to those who never believed in the adequacy of biopsychiatry, in the first place.
While many seek refuge from guilt or blame in the biological definition of their mental illness, the reality is that understanding our illnesses to be more than just random neurochemical accidents, but perhaps fragmentations or distortions of the psyche which can be healed, can replace biological fatalism and reliance on daily doses of Xanax with hope and progress towards restored mental health. Psychedelics can help us make great leaps towards that brighter future, once we recognize and integrate the things they are showing us, and let go of our outdated ideological assumptions.
About the Author
Jonathan Dinsmore is a writer and digital freelancer with a degree in psychology, and a passion for all things philosophy, science, spirituality, and psychedelics.
In this episode, Joe interviews Jon S. on his experience in the psilocybin-assisted trials for alcohol dependency at NYU. In the show, they dive into Jon’s background and how psilocybin assisted therapy helped him out of his alcohol dependence and into a new life.
3 Key Points:
Jon participated in the NYU Double-Blind Trial of Psilocybin-Assisted Treatment of Alcohol Dependence.
The study was double-blind. In each session, he didn’t know if he was going to receive psilocybin or Benadryl.
The sessions helped him so much with this dependence on alcohol, he believes he is a better father, husband, and human overall. He hasn’t had a drink in 5 months (or a desire to).
He spent a lot of his life DJing, so he has spent a lot of time around alcohol
He found out about a psychedelic therapy study at NYU from someone at a Holotropic Breathwork Retreat
The study took place in New York City
He had always wanted to explore the psychedelic side of things
He read Michael Pollan’s book and it said in the book that the Holotropic Breathwork community would be a great group to help find a guide
The Trial
In his assessment, he found out truly how much he was drinking
He would crack a beer before even playing with his kids
He was into craft beer and at 8% a beer, his 3 beers were more like 5
He was asked to not have his sessions recorded so he could be as open as he could be
The session was very focused on curbing drinking
His wife knew he was going down the path of psychedelic healing
“I’m not doing this to have a good time, I’m doing this to be a better person” – Jon
His trial was double-blind
He was never told when he was receiving the psilocybin at each session
He was told that he was either going to get 1 or 3 doses in the trial
The First Session
The first session with the eye shades on (on psilocybin), was very visual
In that first session he kept seeing this pirate ship underwater
His sons would say “come on daddy, lets play on the pirate ship”
He would go to the pirate ship with his sons and then say “I need to go back down and do some work”, and he would swim back into the depths
He came home that day, and his youngest son greeted him at the door, and said let’s play power rangers, I’ll be the red power ranger and you be the pirate
It hit him in a float tank session, the message of that session was to play with his sons more
He had a moment in his first session of rebirth
Integration
There is a 2 hour integration session the very next day
He didn’t think it was going to be as important as it turned out to be
He had the choice to keep it at the same dose or up it
He upped the dose to 40mg instead of 25mg
He was told his second session wouldn’t be anything like his first
The medicine was so intense the second time, he couldn’t even remember the music
In his second session, he saw a body being chopped up (realizing it was his body)
He realized that he was one with the universe, love is the only thing that matters
He wanted to be a part of everything
He was compensated about $100 per session
“When the university gives you financial compensation, you buy everyone in the ice cream shop ice cream” – Jon
Jon says he has a new baseline for anxiety
He never thought he had anxiety, but after his sessions, he found that he is way less anxious than he was, even though he really wasn’t
He didn’t have a desire to drink, he hasn’t had a drink in 5 months
He has never felt better or happier
He’s a much better dad, and husband
Life After the Experience
He is re-reading Aldous Huxley and is finding a whole new meaning to it all
He is spending more time with his family and being present with the
He spends a ton of time with his kids now
Stuff that used to worry him, doesn’t worry him anymore
His experience was everything he hoped for and more
He genuinely believes, that whatever he got out of a session, is what he needed
Final Thoughts
He is talking to the Decrim Nature in NY
He appreciates the platform (Psychedelics Today) for the space to talk about his experience
He appreciates everyone at NYU for the work they are doing
Modern neuroscience has demonstrated that psychedelics such as LSD, psilocybin, the active ingredient in magic mushrooms, as well as ayahuasca operate to significantly reduce activity in the brain’s default mode network (DMN). This reduction in DMN activity functions as a kind of ‘rebooting’ of the brain, and is thought to be linked to one of the most enduring therapeutic effects of psychedelic substances.
What is the Default Mode Network?
The default mode network refers to an interconnected group of brain regions that are associated with introspective functions, internally directed thought, such as self-reflection, and self-criticism. Increased activity of the DMN is correlated with the experience of mind-wandering and our capacity to imagine mental states in others (i.e. theory of mind) as well as our ability to mentally “time travel”, projecting ourselves into the past or future.
The functioning of the DMN is considered essential to normal, everyday consciousness and is at its most active when a person is in a resting state and their attention is not externally directed on a worldly task or stimulus. For example, if you put somebody in an MRI scanner and don’t give them anything to do, their mind will start wandering and you will see the regions that make up the DMN light up.
The functional connections that make up the DMN increase from birth to adulthood, with the DMN not being fully active until later in a child’s development, emerging around the age of five as the child develops a stable sense of narrative self or “ego.”
As we mature, we learn to respond to life’s stimuli in a patterned way, developing habitual pathways of communication between brain regions, particularly those of the DMN. Over time, communication becomes confined to specific pathways, meaning that our brain becomes more ‘constrained’ as we develop. It is these constrained paths of communication between brain regions that quite literally come to constitute our ‘default mode’ of operating in the world, coloring the way we perceive reality.
Evolutionarily speaking, it has been hypothesized that the DMN plays a major role in our survival, helping us form a continuous sense of self, differentiating ourselves from the world around us. The DMN has been described by psychiatrist Matthew Brown as the part of the brain which serves to “remind you that you are you.”
Overactivity of the Default Mode Network & Mental Health Conditions
The DMN has been found to be particularly overactive in certain mental health conditions, such as depression, anxiety, and OCD. Matthew Brown likens DMN overactivity to experiences of “hypercriticality”, “rigid thought patterns”, and “automatic negative thought loops” about oneself.
Imagine that you are at a party, telling a joke that gets met with an awkward silence. Initially, people might think “Oh no, that wasn’t so funny,” but they tend to quickly move on to the next leg of the conversation, forgetting about it entirely. However, you go home that evening, finding yourself completely unable to sleep because you are wrought with worry about the bad joke you told, what a fool you appeared to be, and how others might be judging you harshly for it. This is a classic example of DMN overactivity and the negative thought patterns which tend to be visible in people who suffer from depression, anxiety, and OCD.
How Do Psychedelics Affect the Default Mode Network?
Psychiatric doctor and ayahuasca researcher Simon Ruffell likens the effects of psychedelics on the DMN to “defragmenting a computer.” When you ingest a psychedelic, activity of the DMN is significantly decreased whilst connectivity in the rest of the brain increases.
“Brain imaging studies suggest that when psychedelics are absorbed they decrease activity in the default mode network. As a result the sense of self appears to temporarily shut down, and thus ruminations may decrease. The brain states observed show similarities to deep meditative states, in which increased activity occurs in pathways that do not normally communicate. This process has been compared to defragmenting a computer. Following this, it appears that the default mode network becomes more cohesive. We think this could be one of the reasons levels of anxiety and depression appear to reduce.”
Dr. Simon Ruffell, Psychiatrist and Senior Research Associate at King’s College London
Due to psychedelics’ ability to disrupt the activity of the DMN, they have a particularly strong therapeutic potential when it comes to changing negative thought patterns. For example, a study by Imperial College London assessed the impact of psilocybin-assisted therapy on twelve patients with severe depression. Results demonstrated that psilocybin-assisted therapy was able to dramatically reduce their depression scores for a period of up to three months.
A follow-up study suggested that the therapeutic impact of psilocybin was linked to its ability to ‘reset’ the DMN, turning it off and reconsolidating it in a way that is a little less rigid than before.
In general, it has been shown that psychedelics produce increases in psychological flexibility, positing another explanation for why we see decreases in depression and anxiety following a psychedelic experience. Based on what we know about the DMN, we could hypothesize that it plays an influential role in one’s ability to be psychologically flexible.
Matthew Brown gave an analogy for how psychedelics are able to reset the DMN, enabling an increased sense of psychological flexibility:
“If you do the same thing repeatedly, it is like you are walking down the same path all the time. Naturally, that path becomes very well worn and easy to walk down. However, you realize that maybe there is another path that might be more advantageous for you and you want to try walking down that path. Psychedelics ‘mow the lawn’ so that it doesn’t seem that the weeds are quite so high and you can walk down that new path a little bit more easily.”
Entropic Brain Theory & The Reducing Valve
Psychedelics tend to disrupt the activity of the DMN, temporarily disintegrating the highly organized system of networks that it is made up of, allowing for “less ordered neurodynamics”, and a greater degree of entropy within the brain. That is to say that open, freer conversations begin to take place between brain regions that are normally kept separate.
According to the ‘entropic brain’ theory, the state of consciousness associated with psychedelics is comparable to that which exists in early childhood – we experience awe and wonder, looking at everything in the world around us as wholly novel.
These findings are in line with writer and philosopher Aldous Huxley’s early reflections on the psychedelic experience, in which he described psychedelic consciousness as “Mind at Large” in that it grants us access to a larger set of brain functions, allowing us to tap into an unbounded state of consciousness which extends beyond the individual and into the collective. He theorized that in order “to make biological survival possible, Mind at Large has to be funneled through the reducing valve of the brain and nervous system.”
In this case, we can think of the “reducing valve” as a metaphor for the DMN which in some sense serves “to protect us from being overwhelmed and confused by this mass of largely useless and irrelevant knowledge, […] and leaving only that very small and special selection which is likely to be practically useful.”
This self-guided class investigates the history, science, and best practices for safe and effective microdosing; hosted by Adam Bramlage, founder of Flow State Micro, Dr. James Fadiman, the “father of modern microdosing,” and a dozen expert guest faculty. Enroll today!
The Default Mode Network & Ego Death
In 2016, a breakthrough study by Imperial College London used a combination of neuroimaging techniques to measure electrical activity and experiential reports from participants to investigate the link between brain activity and reported psychological responses to LSD in twenty volunteers.
Results demonstrated that LSD dampens the function of the DMN, and that this decrease in activity strongly correlated with the subjective experience of “ego dissolution” or “ego death”, indicating that the DMN performs a vital part in sustaining the “ego” or “self.”
Similarly, researchers at Johns Hopkins University published a pioneering study, demonstrating that psilocybin is able to produce mystical-type experiences in participants, such as the experience of ego death. These experiences were considered to be deeply meaningful by participants and were seen to elicit sustained positive changes in attitude and behaviour.
Generally, it’s our ego – our sense of “I” – that tends to create and harbor negative thought patterns. In conditions such as depression and anxiety, we become self-absorbed, narrowly focused on thoughts about ourselves, unable to take a step back and see the bigger picture. The ego erects boundaries that can lead to us feeling isolated from the people around us, disconnected from nature and even ourselves.
In a state of ego dissolution, these boundaries are let down and a great “zooming out” takes place where you begin to see things on a macroscopic level. You are no longer an individual isolated from life as it takes place around you, but rather you are interconnected with everything through the web of life. It is not a logical, but rather a felt experience of incredible love and reconnection.
When asked about the therapeutic implications of having an experience like ego dissolution, Matthew Brown explained that it can be tremendously healing as our consciousness is able to extend itself beyond the confines of our individual experience, and become one with nature’s larger whole.
“You realize that you are extremely insignificant, and perhaps that sounds defeating. However, it can be very freeing to realize that you are just one human who is existing for a very small blip of time in the grand scheme of the universe.” — Dr. Matthew Brown, DO, MBA, ABPN, Child, Adolescent, Adult Psychiatry
It is important to note that although experiences of ego death can lead to deep personal insight, and thus have therapeutic benefits, they can also be terrifying. Author of Changing our Minds, Don Lattin reminds us that ego death can be a “fearful and/or enlightening experience” that “depends in large part on whether mind travelers are ready for the journey, what baggage they bring along, and who’s accompanying them.”
Perhaps what is most interesting about the ego death experience, and the temporary rewiring of the brain enabled by psychedelics, is the long-lasting, enduring therapeutic effects that remain beyond the temporality of the drug. The resetting of the DMN combined with the powerful experience of ego death induced by psychedelics are often described as amongst the most meaningful of experiences in a person’s life. Such experiences help us to break free from negative thought patterns, become more psychologically flexible as well as dissolve the barriers between ourselves and the world around us, realizing our place in the interconnected web of life.
About the Author
Jasmine Virdi is a freelance writer, editor, and proofreader. She currently works for the fiercely independent publishing company Synergetic Press, where her passions for ecology, ethnobotany and psychoactive substances converge. Jasmine’s goal as an advocate for psychoactive substances is to raise awareness of the socio-historical context in which these substances emerged in order to help integrate them into our modern-day lives in a safe, grounded and meaningful way.
In this episode, Kyle invites a guest interviewer, Hallie Rose of the Thought Room Podcast, to interview him on his recent experience at Soltara. In the show, they talk about Soltara, Kyle’s experience with the plant medicine, and important topics like privilege.
3 Key Points:
Integration is an important part of working with psychedelics and plant medicines. Indigenous cultures have different integration perspectives than Western attendees. In the West, attendees come back to more hustle and bustle, and may need more time for integration. Soltara does a really good job at providing integration resources and educating guests about the post-medicine experience.
Ayahuasca is a relational medicine. An anology that one of the facilitators used was that with psilocybin and other psychedelics, there is this one big entry door into the space – you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily. With Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate throug and you have to create a relationship with the medicine first.
If the people that really need the help can’t even afford medicine experiences, then how do we have mass healing? Peer support movements may be a way forward with this issue. As the field continues to grow, we need to look at more affordable and accessible models.
Hallie mentions that she was blown away by the amount of effort that it takes to uphold a medicine center like Soltara
Kyle says right from the start from arrival to the location, he was greeted with such warmth and it reminded him of his breathwork background
The ground rules that they laid down right at the start made him feel so safe
She said it’s amazing to see the amount of healing that happens in that space
“When it comes to your own medicine work, your own journey work, only you know what’s right for you” – Hallie
Hallie is part of a mastermind group through Aubrey Marcus, the CEO of Onnit
She is connected to a bunch of people as a part of this group
She was introduced to Dan Cleland, a co-founder of Soltara, who invited her to come down
Yes they had the traditional Shipibo aspects, but they also did a fantastic job of adding in the Western concepts to cater to the western needs
Hallie mentions that coming from the West, we have the need to integrate the experience in a different way than those coming from the East, and Soltara does a really good job with that kind of integration
The First Session
Before the first ceremony, participants engaged in what is called “vomitivo.” This is a process of clearing the body through purging. Participants are asked to drink a tea made from lemongrass and other admixtures that contain purgative properties.
Kyle said the tea was actually tasty
You drink a lot of it where you override the system to where the body wants to purge
The purging is to clear the system out of toxins and clean it out energetically
Soltara built in pre-ceremony sessions like yoga or meditation to help ease into the actual sessions
Kyle said that the Ayahuasca experience was familiar
Everything felt very green behind his eyes
There was a serpent weaving in and out of his DNA
The experience felt so healing
Kyle didn’t purge (vomit) but did do a little crying
He said he did not experience much anxiety
The serpent was healing him and stitching parts of himself back together
“There is something intelligent here working on very subtle levels” – Kyle
The next two ceremonies were very gentle, some crying, going through family dynamics, but always in the background, there was that same serpent
Kyle said the first 3 sessions felt really easy, compared to previous experiences with psychedelics
The spirit said to him “oh you think this was going to be easy, that you would just drink this and that I would show you all this stuff. Well, we have to get to know each other first”
With psilocybin, there is this one big door, you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily, with Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate through, you have to create a relationship with the medicine first
Final Ceremony
It was during the full moon in Cancer and lunar eclipse, the energy was already intense
For the 4th ceremony, Kyle was already feeling high energy, and did not want to go too strong, so he started with ¾ of a cup
Kyle felt more subtle effects of the medicine during the first part of the ceremony and the medicine told him to ask for a second dose
The facilitator gave Kyle ¼ of a cup more
That ¼ of a cup really opened up a door for Kyle
After the singing, he laid down and that’s when things took off
All of a sudden, he saw himself back in the CAT scan machine (referring back to his NDE as a teen)
He always tells the story as blissful and beautiful, but this time was so different
He saw himself back in the CAT scan machine as a child, and was terrified, and he began shaking
He felt this pain in his pelvic area as he felt during his NDE
He was shivering and so cold, it brought him right back into that state
He was re-experiencing the fear in a new way during the ceremony
He went into his body and felt the scar tissue and felt that shake and stretch and kind of brought in some healing there
After his actual surgery/NDE, as he was healing he was always really afraid to move in certain ways in the fear that movement would re-open some of the healing wounds
He got a clear way of looking at how the body holds trauma, especially after surgery
That trauma is tied to the way we hold ourselves, the way we walk and talk and in so many ways
This ceremony helped Kyle view somatic body work in such a new light
The ceremony was not scary, he allowed his body to process the fear, but not attach to the fear and become fearful
Yoga can also bring that out, stillness and vulnerability can bring up some body trauma and put you into that fight or flight response
Even when you think you’re done processing something, there are always more layers to dig into and see something differently to bring more clarity
Preparation
Hallie said what she is learning with this medicine, is that she doesn’t need to make anything happen, she needs to just let it happen
That feeling of relaxing things is scary because it means giving up control
It’s a practice and its a lot easier said than done
The most important part is the set (mindset), because the set is you
“Having your set figured out, when the going gets tough, you’re safe still” – Hallie
Kyle said that Aya always told him to wait, he didn’t need to jump into trying it right away, he waited over 10 years to process his NDE trauma
Hallie says it’s just like marriage, you can get married easily, but it’s not always going to work out if you don’t have the tools and the skill sets to maintain it
Ayahuasca is similar in needing the right tools and time to do it right
The dieta and the prep itself is so hard
People are turned off by the idea of doing something disciplined
These experiences can be so much different when we go through the process of giving something up
It’s not to punish ourselves, it’s to heal ourselves
“There is a whole other side of us, that opens up when we cut out some of the things that numb us” – Hallie
The dieta strips away the illusions, the plant medicines help us remember who we are
Hopi Creation Story
The great creator said “I have a gift for the human beings, but I need to hide it somewhere until they are ready to find it”
It is “the gift of the knowing that they can create anything, they can create their own reality”
The creator asked the earth where he should hide it
The eagle said he will bring it to the moon
The fish said he will bring it to the bottom of the sea
The buffalo said he will bring it to the edge of the plains
The creator said no to all of them, they will find it there
So the great grandmother who lives in the breast of the earth said, put it inside of them
And the creator said “it is done”
It brought Kyle back to his fourth ceremony, the Ayahuasca was a reminder that everything he needed was already inside of him
Privilege
It’s hard to tell people of their only legal options for healing, which most of them are leaving the country, which is not an option for some people
We are all worthy of finding relief of our suffering through psychedelics
Is therapy only going to be for the rich and elite? There are so many people who really need it
Yes, you can grow mushrooms, but then you’re at risk of the law
The system is so complex and we need a more humane way of moving forward in this field and offer experiences like this to the people that need it
Therapy is a privilege
Most people that need therapy are in survival mode that don’t have the privilege of access to therapy
Peer support movements are a way forward in this issue
If the people that really need the help can’t even afford it, then how do we have mass healing?
There are great healers out there that never became healers because they didn’t have the privilege to
Kyle says he escaped a lot of suicidal ideation after his near death experience, it took a lot of time to call earth his home
“Just to wake up and be a part of this, even that is magical in itself” – Kyle
“The stars come out every night, and we watch television” – Hallie
Authentic Self
Hallie has recently had her 12th Ayahuasca experience
“I am no longer breathing, I am being breathed” – Hallie
“Hatred does not exist, it is only a resistance to love” – Hallie
Even being hard on ourselves is only a resistance to loving ourselves
Its love with nowhere to go
People that have a lot of self hatred toward their bodies or themselves, the medicine always comes back to the self, it teaches people to love and take care of themselves
“You really can’t love anything outside of yourself until you love yourself” – Hallie
Kyle says that the people who he looks up to (ex, Stan Grof), what if they never showed up for themselfves? What if they never stood up for what they believe in?
Hallie Rose is an author, speaker, educator, and relationship coach from New York City. She is the host of The Thought Room Podcast and also the founder & CEO of the company Lunar Wild which aims to reclaim the sacred feminine and address a modern need for a Rite of Passage into womanhood. The Thought Room is a combination of edge-of-your-seat storytelling and groundbreaking interviews with celebrated thought-leaders from around the world. The show covers a breadth of topics including psychology, spirituality, sex & relationships, psychedelic science & plant medicine, bio-hacking, fitness, nutrition, alternative health, business & entrepreneurship, mindfulness, yoga, and meditation.
A few important notes. This is an episode of an individual experimenting with powerful drugs to see if he can get any sort of relief from autism. In this case, it appears to have been successful. That said, this came with a substantial amount of risks, and people need to be aware. Please read the below bullets so you understand.
Autism is not what is treated. The thing being treated would be a symptom like social anxiety.
“The field of autism science includes a long and shameful history of quack treatments and parents taking desperate and harmful measures to “fix” their children. Autism is a spectrum of congenital and neurocognitive variants, and there are no published research data in support of any compound that can influence its course.” Alicia Danforth, PhD
Please do not administer these drugs to children with autism. It would be highly unethical to do so.
There are only two researchers investigating where MDMA and autism meet – Alicia Danforth PhD and Dr. Charlie Grob. A scientific paper will likely be available on this in the next few months. Expect to see more here.
These drugs have not been shown to cure or treat autism, but in some cases, just like with neuro-typical individuals, some have seen meaningful changes.
Even if changes are noticed the person is still autistic no matter how many high doses of psychedelics they take.
Obtaining pure drugs is very difficult if not impossible in black markets.
Verifying purity will require the resources of mass spectrometry from organizations offering these services like Energy Control or Ecstasy Data
Providing unsafe, dirty or compromised drugs to people can cause serious harm or death.
If you are planning to use MDMA to alleviate some suffering on your own, please wait or don’t.
Do substantial research and have skilled people available to help.
Thanks to Alicia Danforth for helping us understand the nuance’s in this area.
..autism is a genetically determined cognitive variant. It’s pervasive, and it affects the whole person, not just the brain. No chemical compound has been shown to treat, cure, or alter the course of autism. However, for some people, substances like MDMA can help them manage symptoms such as anxiety, social anxiety, and trauma effects. – Alicia Danforth, Ph.D
In this episode, Joe sits down with Aaron Orsini, Author of Autism on Acid. In this powerful episode, Aaron shares his moving story on how LSD gave him life-saving relief from his struggles with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
3 Key Points:
Aaron spent the first 20+ years of his life suffering from the struggles of Autism Spectrum Disorder. He changed his life in an unexpected way through the use of LSD.
LSD gave Aaron the emotional installation of perception to see the stimuli in life that he had been blind from because of his disorder.
Aaron is the author of the book, Autism on Acid, a self told story on his autistic perceptions before, during and after his LSD experience. He goes into great depth on his experience in the show.
He didn’t know what he needed, he just wanted to leave
He got a backpack and a bike and headed west toward California
He had an opportunity to try LSD
He thought it was going to be an escape, and it ended up being the most involved experience of his life
He sat on a tree stump in a wooded area, finally noticing everything that had been there his whole life that he hadn’t seen before
He saw the beauty in literally being alive
He sat there and cried for an hour or two, it was a lot
Aaron eventually got up, and started walking and saw some people walking and he had an urge to say hello, so he did, and they said “hello, how are you” back
He describes it as a sensation of a child riding a bike for the first time
Them saying “hello, how are you” to him, was the first time he experienced someone saying hello to him and him feeling it
It was like a def person getting a cochlear implant and hearing for the first time
It kick started his exploration of the world around him
Integration
His LSD experience was about 6 years ago, and he didn’t know much about LSD at the time
He didn’t know what to do with his experience
In the beginning, he felt as if he would go into it, see everything very clearly, and then back out of it again, and things felt more muted and ‘blurry’
“I was utilizing LSD, not for a sub-perceptive, metabolic effect, I was going for a supra-perceptive effect” – Aaron
Aaron was taking at or slightly above the threshold dose amount (20-50micrograms)
For someone who already had sensitivity issues, it was very apparent when he would take ‘too much’
In no way is he advocating someone to repeat what he has done, he wants it more to spark interest in researchers to find more data on this in the hopes to find relief for others
Emotional Installation
“LSD has helped me understand myself and embrace that” – Aaron
Aaron said he’s willing to take a risk to not be anonymous, because it’s not some simple thing, it’s so important, it’s the most important thing to him
He gets emails all the time saying the same thing has happened to them, but they want to stay anonymous
Aaron says it has changed his relationships with his loved ones, the fact that he has this new depth of feeling has changed his relationships dramatically
The main treatments for kids with autism was to help the caretaker, to help the child not fidget when they sleep
Aaron says he needed to fidget, he needed to squirm around
“If you can’t hear, and someone is telling you over and over again ‘listen, listen, listen’, how are you going to begin to listen? That’s the void that LSD filled.” – Aaron
He fell in love with parts of himself that he didn’t get a chance to before
Every other form of therapy was coming from the outside and telling him what to feel, LSD was the only therapy that came from the inside
He mentions a quote from a documentary on someone who used truffles to help them, “Truffles installed emotionality in me”
Hope for Research
There were studies done with LSD on autistic children in hospital settings before the drug prohibition
The results showed the kids changing so fast and so effectively
It’s a difficult topic, ASD research in general is heavily funded by the government
Autism aside, the older you are in life, the more surprised you are when that veil is lifted for a moment
The risk that he is taking is nothing compared to the significance of what good this has a chance of bringing
It’s not a desired risk to come out as an Autistic person, and especially as one who has taken controlled substances to heal from it
Aaron Paul Orsini is a writer, public speaker, and survivor of a decades-long battle with clinical depression resulting from social isolation, mental rumination, and hypo-sensitivity issues common in autistic individuals. When Aaron was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at the age of 23, he took comfort in receiving a diagnosis but remained deeply depressed as a result of seeing himself as broken and blind; someone who just couldn’t and wouldn’t “get it”. But then came his first experience with LSD, during which he became intuitively aware of the very stimuli he’d been incapable of perceiving throughout his life. Thanks to LSD—and a yet-to-be-fully-understood combination of chemically-induced synesthesia and associated fluctuations in intrinsic functional connectivity within the salience and default mode networks, Aaron can now perceive critical social cues embedded in facial expressions, speaking tones, and body language, which in turn means he feels fully connected to the human experience, and fully capable of navigating the social and emotional landscapes of life.
In today’s episode, Joe visits Naropa in Boulder, CO to sit down with Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis. Alan is a Clinical Psychology Professor at Ohio State and Rafael is a legal Psychedelic Therapist operating out of Innate Path in Colorado.
3 Key Points:
Facilitation is a huge problem in the 5-MEO-DMT space. Some people take it without the intention of working on it afterward, they are commonly given too much, and also in a poor context. This recipe of poor facilitation and guidance leads to a lot of challenging experiences and a lot of integration work.
The feeling of oneness typically arises when taking 5-MEO-DMT. It can be great for some, but for others, it can be extremely overwhelming and harmful when not provided the correct intention, context and tools to work through it.
Privilege is a huge issue in the psychedelic space. The goal in this space is to make everyone’s voice heard, not just those of privilege.
Rafael studied Mental Health Counseling at the University of Wyoming
He is currently at Innate Path in Lakewood, CO doing Ketamine and Cannabis assisted Psychotherapy
Alan
Alan is on the Faculty at John’s Hopkins
He is a Clinical Psychologist
He is currently doing clinical research on psychoactive substances
5-MEO-DMT
It is a psychoactive substance that comes from the Sonoran Desert Toad
It’s a fast acting and powerful psychedelic substance that is challenging to predict
Some have amazing, beautiful and transcendent experiences, but it also has the ability to bring up challenging and dark things to deal with
It isn’t as visual as other psychedelics, it has to deal a lot more with consciousness itself
“It may feel like being shot right into the center of love, or the center of the universe” – Alan
DMT can be more visual, while 5-MEO-DMT can be more spiritual, not that they can’t dip into each other
5-MEO-DMT Harms
Alan did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT at Horizons
There are a lot of harms when using 5-MEO-DMT
Both Alan and Rafael have been contacted numerous times about looking for facilitators or about trying to integrate massive and difficult experiences
An ego death, in the right context, can be transformative, but in the wrong context, can be extremely harmful.
The facilitators are the problem
If the facilitators are delivering the medicine in a shamanic practice, and the people using it are coming from a Western mindset, then with goals misaligned, there can be some major issues
People have these grand, god-like experiences when using psychedelics, then feel like they need to become shamans and facilitate these experiences for others and have literally no clue or education on how to properly care for these people using the Toad
Joe says facilitators commonly overdose their users because the toad venom is hard to predict potency
Alan says that the fear response needs to be initiated when extracting the venom from the toad
He thinks it can come up as a huge problem when using 5-MEO-DMT from a fear-stricken animal
Alan says there is a lot of reports of feeling abducted by aliens, and it could be related to the fear response from the toad being hunted for its venom
It’s a similar concept to the traumatization of any other animal by the way it is killed and then eating the meat of that traumatized animal
On average, there is roughly 10-20% of 5-MEO-DMT in the venom
Oneness
When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, it takes a lot of detailed integration
When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, that would also mean that they experience the suffering of everything around them
When the rational mind comes back online, if the person does not decide to take action, it can be seriously overwhelming to feel that oneness
Integration has part to do with the experience but then the other part is everything before it, our family, relationships, job, our personality, etc.
“Yeah its cool that we are one with the universe, but so is everything else” – Rafael
Power and Privilege
Privilege means having a voice, but it also means position in society, gender, race etc
In psychedelics, for so long, it has been so hard to find a voice
But with this psychedelic renaissance, it has become so much easier to speak up about psychedelic use, research, etc
The people within the scientific community get put on a pedestal to speak about psychedelic research
Alan says his goal as someone in the middle of the research role, is to create community, to bring every voice to be heard
Being connected to psychedelics in anyway, used to mean prosecution
There are still imbalances that need to be looked at
The psychedelic renaissance is a chance to look at systemic issues
We need to determine what our personal values are, and values of the whole community, and whether or not they are aligned
Final Thoughts
Alan says his goal is to continue having a voice and allowing others’ voices to be heard in this space
Rafael says his goal is to make this therapy more available to those who can benefit from it and not just for the privileged
Rafael is a graduate from the University of Wyoming in Mental Health Counseling. He has worked as a wilderness therapy guide with adolescents and young adults experiencing a wide range of emotional and psychological challenges. He has also worked as a counselor at the Behavioral Health Services unit of a psychiatric hospital treating severe and persistent mental illness and medically supervised drug and alcohol detox. He has worked on several research projects studying the epidemiology of 5-MeO-DMT use in the global population and is also the administrator of 5meodmt.org, an online forum dedicated to hosting community discussions on harm reduction, integration, and safe practices around 5-MeO-DMT use. He is interested in the use of psychedelics paired with therapy for increased resiliency, mental health, and openness. He believes that the counseling relationship is essential to deepen, enhance, and actualize the benefits of psychedelic-assisted therapy. He is passionate about finding ways to make psychedelic-assisted therapies available to all those who may benefit from it as well as helping to raise awareness as to responsible clinical applications of psychedelics/entheogens.
About Alan Kooi Davis
Dr. Alan K Davis is an Assistant Professor of Social Work at The Ohio State University and an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Psychedelic Research Unit at Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Davis’s clinical experience includes working with people diagnosed with trauma-based psychological problems such as addiction, PTSD, depression, and anxiety. His clinical expertise includes providing evidenced-based treatments such as motivational interviewing, cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy. Consistent with his clinical interests, his research interests and expertise focus on contributing to the knowledge of and ability to help those suffering with substance use and mental health problems, understanding how to improve clinical outcomes through examining new treatments, and developing ways to conceptualize substance use and mental health problems through a strengths-based approach.
In this episode, Joe interviews Dena Justice from the Ecstatic Collective. Dena and Joe talk about Neuro Linguistic Programming and how it is beneficial to use with non-ordinary states of consciousness.
3 Key Points:
NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming. Dena Justice is a Lifestyle Design Strategist that uses NLP to help people create their dream, ecstatic life.
93% of communication happens at the subconscious level. NLP training focuses on how we use communication tools to help people in non-ordinary states of consciousness.
Perception is Projection. Our belief of someone else, is a projection of ourselves onto them.
As a master manifester, Dena has created a beautiful life for herself. She been financially responsible since age 15 including putting herself through college, two masters degrees and purchasing her own home in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has made over $1M in her life through a fulfilling career as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor and coach working with thousands of people across the country. She loved her career, yet hit a point where she felt empty. Near the top of her career ladder, she was a classic case of a high performer and leader hitting burnout. She chose a powerful pivot out of her J-O-B and into her own business. Now, she helps other high performers who have hit burnout and are scared to admit they’ve hit a plateau or a wall. She helps them get the eff out of their own way and move to the next level to increase their impact so they feel fulfilled and inspired again, as well as helping them create more wealth and the relationships they want in their lives. She helps people experience new levels of success, increase/improve focus and performance, abolish FOMO, evolve communication skills, develop transformational leadership skills, create amazing relationships, increase financial abundance and live life on their own terms.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Raquel Bennett to recap on the KRIYA Conference. Kyle attended the conference, which is to bring people together with dedication to understanding the better use of Ketamine.
3 Key Points:
The more recent KRIYA Conference was the last of its kind. The goal is to make information on ketamine more accessible to more people in the future.
At KRIYA Institute, they believe that there is not one right way to use ketamine, different patients are best served by different treatment strategies.
Intramuscular ketamine is usually 93% bioavailable, while nasal and lozenge based ketamine is usually only 40% bioavailable. The less variability the better when working with a powerful medicine for therapy.
KRIYA is an international conference focused on ketamine and its therapeutic potential
The goal of KRIYA is to get people of all different ketamine backgrounds in the same room
Different people benefit from different things, and different doses and methods matter
There is a symbiotic relationship between therapeutic and spiritual practice of ketamine
She wanted to create a place where researchers and clinicians could come together
This last conference was the last one
The conference is CME accredited, which means physicians can get units for their education
Raquel picks people from different backgrounds, therapists who use low dose ketamine for therapy, to those who do full blown spiritual work with ketamine
Ketamine is a relational medicine – which is about having a relationship with the substance
Ketamine Therapy
Ketamine Therapy Lessons
Wisdom Teaching
A Loving Relationship
The Medicine
The medicine is adjunct to the entire process, it’s not just about the ketamine, it’s about the relationships, the wisdom teaching, etc. And each are powerful on their own, and even more powerful when all combined
When people are using ketamine in absence from the other components, people are not getting the full effect that they could
“Ketamine when done correctly, when administered in the right setting, with the correct support, enhances resilience.” – Raquel
Therapy is an important mechanism to teach coping skills needed in psychotherapy
Highlights of KRIYA
When Raquel first started running this conference in 2015, the clinicians were afraid to even come, they were afraid to talk about Ketamine
This past year, there were hundreds of applicants and so much excitement around talking about ketamine
In 2014, a whole bunch of psychiatrists stood up and said they have been using ketamine for their patients and it worked
A doctor talked about combining meditation with ketamine to heal substance use disorder
When ketamine is offered in a structured context, its highly beneficial
Another doctor talked about using ketamine to treat those who are acutely suicidal
People who are severely psychiatrically distressed benefit from ketamine treatment
Another doctor talked about combining ketamine with EMDR to treat patients with PTSD
Bioavailability
Raquel says she prefers intramuscular ketamine over lozenges
It’s the cheapest way of doing it
Its super precise, you have a great control of the bioavailability of the ketamine to the patient
With IM, 93% is bioavailable
With nasal and lozenge ketamine, usually 40% makes it to the patient’s brain, which is a huge range of variability when working with a powerful medicine
Progression
Clinicians are on the fence for prescribing for at home use
A doctor talked about 4 different tiers of ketamine experiences related to dosage
Other doctors talked about measurement tools of pre and post experience ways to take data when administering ketamine to patients
There is a lot of ketamine use outside of the medical context
The field is stuck in the question “Should ketamine be allowed to be used by people who aren’t psychiatrically fragile?”
Everything good that is going to come out of ketamine usage and assisted therapy, will come
It’s a slow process, but it is all moving forward
Final Thoughts
Raquel encourages people to are interested with using ketamine in therapy to get together regionally and learn from each other
She is thinking about creating a video series, as well as a retreat for ketamine providers
The KRIYA Conference is over, but the KRIYA Institute isn’t going anywhere
She is looking at ways to get the information out faster and to more people, than to limit it just to conference attendees
Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.
In today’s episode, Joe sits down with Andy Frasco, a touring rock musician with the band, Andy Frasco and the UN. In the show, they cover what is it like to be a touring rock musician with drugs so available and how to live more healthfully in the space.
3 Key Points:
Andy Frasco is a talented, touring music artist a part of the band, Andy Frasco and the UN, as well as a podcast show host. Andy uses psychedelics to help cope with the anxiety that the rock star lifestyle brings.
Psychedelics open us up to the possibility that everything we know is wrong. Finding truth and clarity for some people is hard, and people resort to alcohol and other harmful behaviors to suppress the painful reality we live in.
Cocaine and uppers only keep a rock star up for so long. It keeps you awake for the partying, but it suppresses all the stresses of the lifestyle. Psychedelics and meditation can help with the balance needed in a stressful, lifestyle of traveling and fame.
Microdosing is typically 6 weeks on, two weeks off, dosing every 3 days
1/10-3/10ths of a gram (of mushrooms) is the typical microdose
Once you feel it, it’s more of a macro-dose
Paul Stamets has made mushrooms popular
Mushroom Evolution
Mushrooms did not leave a mark on bone structure, so it’s hard to tell if they actually made a difference in human evolution
Drugs have been around for a long time, and people in the past have definitely used them
There are studies of mushrooms helping to grow nerve cells and brain neurons back
We are only 50-100 years in on science “(Psychedelics) open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong.” -Terence McKenna
Joe says he’s been to a therapist a bunch of times, and he says he has enjoyed it
Joe’s main form of therapy has been Breathwork
His most intense experiences have been just as powerful as his Ayahuasca experience
About Andy
Andy says he is open about taking psychedelics, he takes mushrooms, he doesn’t really use cocaine
He says he feels more anxious when he isn’t taking them than when he is
He says he gets really anxious on weed now as he gets older
Psychedelics show us a lot of truths
“We are all trying to figure out life, it’s hard. Psychedelics help us create a better relationship with our mind.” – Andy
Andy says he has been anxious his whole life
He has had very scary panic attacks
He became addicted to sex as a crutch for his anxiety
He woke up one day, and sex didn’t give him the thrill anymore
Andy started in the music industry because rock stars get the chicks
Teen years are just about being super insecure about everything
Shame is a huge influence on our relationships with other people
“The majority of effects from drug use for people are good.” – a quote from Carl Hart, a Psychology Professor who studies drug use
Andy’s first psychedelic experience was an 8th of mushrooms at 18 years old
Rock Star Lifestyle
Andy says he used to be really into coke because he just had to stay up for the shows
But he says he doesn’t take anything anymore that feels like speed
He was coping his exhaustion with drugs and alcohol
“When you’re in a band you’re the party for one day of the year in that city.” – Andy
Life for a rock star can’t just be the 2 hour show, the trick is figuring out how to be mindful for the other 14 hours of the day after the party
The lifestyle is really hard, its very common to use drugs, sex and alcohol to suppress it
Humans were not designed for this
Andy has begun using transcendental meditation to help with this lifestyle
He also mentions having his first DMT experience recently
Links
Use code PSYTODAY at Onnit for discount on all products except fitness equipment Get a 30 day free trail at Audible
About Andy Frasco
Andy Frasco, a Los Angeles, CA native singer, songwriter, band maestro, entrepreneur, party starter and everyday hustler, tours with his band, “The U.N.” The music has elements of Soul, Funk, Rock and Roots and the shows have been described as orchestrated chaos, an overall great time. Frasco average 200+ dates a year, touring the country dozens of times, creating a loyal following everywhere he goes.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to cover questions from listeners of the show. They discuss topics that include psychedelic use for exorcisms, cluster headaches, athletic performance, processing grief and more.
3 Key Points:
There are a few examples where psychedelics are used to increase athletic performance. Psychedelics can also be used to help realign those who are using sports as a form of distraction from internalized issues.
When eliminating variables for psilocybin consistency in mushrooms for therapeutic use, freeze drying helps. But there are so many variables in mushrooms versus synthesized psilocybin.
When addressing the sustainability of the Toad, according to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT
The receptor site activity is the same as opioid pills
Using Psychedelics for an Exorcism
Kyle thinks of shamanic uses for plant medicines, and with the idea of purging and spiritual emergence, working in non-ordinary states can exacerbate these states and maybe help with this kind of work
Joe and Kyle go into writings from Stan Grof, explaining the physical appearance of those going through LSD psychotherapy or breathwork, and how it assimilates to an ‘exorcism’ of releasing the bad
The purging during a psychedelic experience may feel evil, or alien
Joe and Kyle say, do not perform an exorcism, leave it to the trained people
Treating Cluster Headaches with Psychedelics
Cluster Busters is an organization for the research on cluster headaches
LSD works for some as well as oxygen treatments work for others
We know a lot more about migraines than cluster headaches
The migraine is where neurons in the brain start misfiring and create a firing storm
How can Psilocybin Mushrooms be Standardized in Production for Therapeutic Use?
Joe says the practical solution is to have a really large amount of psilocybe cubensis, all blended up, and then split in even doses
There are potency differences between species, strains, etc
There are so many variances with mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin
Freeze drying also promotes close to 0% loss of psilocybin when drying mushrooms
Psychedelics and Athletic Performance
There may be psychological blocks that are getting in the way of a person reaching the peak performance of their genome
It could be trauma, or psychological blocks
Athletic performance could be a distraction from what you’re really here to do
Athletes have a lot of dysfunctional behavior
Psychedelics may show us our bad behavior and help us align
Kyle says he had this passion to snowboard and dedicate his life to snowboarding, and then he received a message in journeywork that told him snowboarding is simply a hobby and he needs to focus his life on other things
“Sports are a great way to cover up our emotions” – Joe
A lot of people internalize it instead of breaking down and letting it go
Links
Use code PSYTODAY at Onnit for discount on all products except fitness equipment Get a 30 day free trail at Audible
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Jac Harrison, a grammy nominated music producer. Kyle and Jac talk about music as therapy, how DMT mimics the near death experience, and how Jac produces music based on frequencies of mystical experiences.
3 Key Points:
Jac shares his story about his near death experience, and how DMT has been a therapeutic option for him to cope with his crippling anxiety and PTSD.
Jac is a music producer, who uses frequencies from mystical experiences to produce music. His music helps people with addiction, sleep issues, anxiety, and more.
Music is not an FDA approved medicine, but if there is music that tricks your mind into thinking you have taken a medicine, then it should be an option for those suffering.
Each song he did after that, catalogs the DMT experience he had
“An old projector TV, I had one for a while, it was great. The light came on and told me I needed to change the bulb. I changed the bulb and saw in a new and clear way forever. That’s what DMT is like.” – Jac
Kyle says that when he attended COSM for the DMT Spirit Molecule release party, Rick Strassman was there and said that the idea that DMT comes out of the pineal gland is just a hypothesis, and people took it and ran with it as truth
Frequency for Healing
After he smoked DMT, he heard this humming, and so he started humming and recording it as a frequency for the album
He took opium, and then figured out the frequency that substance performs at
He wrote music, based on the mathematical equation on how opium works and releases
He says it has helped others detox off of opium
Jac cant take mushrooms because he is allergic, so he takes DMT
Jac worked with a man who had gone through a ton of trauma, he had gone through combat
He kept reliving his combat trauma when he would try to go asleep
He smoked DMT, and really relived the experience, and was able to let go of it after that
“Your mind is a bitch.” – Jac
“If you can lock onto a memory, and dissociate it with something, and re-associate it with something else, Every time you can go back to that memory,you can relive it in a way that it’s tolerable, and get over it.” – Jac
Jac says without this, he would not be able to function, and he would be institutionalized
Jac’s music is Alex Grey’s form of art creation
It is made to go with journeywork experiences
It is supposed to mimic taking a pill, so you don’t need to take the actual pill
It is supposed to guide people when taking different psychedelics
His tracks match the frequency of specific psychedelics
Malta Hypogeum
The Malta Hypogeum, the oracle chamber, is a cave with naturally occurring frequencies
Raymond Reif is an underestimated person in history
He beat cancer using frequencies in the 30’s and 40’s
“If we’re not going to someone to get drugs for something that we need drugs for, and solving our problems using plant based medicines, music therapy, and frequencies, we are much better off.” – Jac
Jac came across psychedelics when trying to treat crippling anxiety
Kyle is the first person he has told this NDE story to
Alzheimers is not a neurological problem, it’s a perception problem
Psychedelic medicine should be used for research to treat cognitive health problems, PTSD, alzheimers, etc
“If the earth gives us something for our body, we should be able to take that at the same time we are able to take modern medicine.” – Jac
Jac says that he started doing this type of work as more of an Atheist, and after the psychedelic experiences, he says he has become more spiritual
Intuition
Jac says that his intuition and discernment came after his near death experience
Kyle says that this happens after mystical experiences, we become more in tune with what is going on around us
“I believe that we have something in us, that is triggered, when we have a fear of death.” – Jac
Final thoughts
Jac recommends Relief as the first track for listeners
He extends himself to people who are heavily anxious, have severe PTSD, or depressed, to come to him, and he will make music for them
He said that this is not medicine, but if there is music that tricks your mind into thinking you have taken a medicine, then it should be an option for those suffering
Having spent most of his adolescent life medicated to treat ADD/ADHD, Jac developed a dependency on the medications and could not function without them. When he stopped using them, his anxiety was so bad that he was diagnosed with PTSD in 2009; so he took his love for music with his understanding of mathematics and developed music to help himself get off all the medication. Mind Toy Box is the result of his work.
In this episode, Joe interviews Cody Swift from the Riverstyx Foundation. In the show, they talk about Peyote and the troubles for Native Americans and their church not having access and preservation of Peyote.
3 Key Points:
RiverStyx is a small family foundation that funds projects that demonstrate the potential for healing and beauty. RiverStyx has funded the preservation of land to protect the sacred Peyote plant.
The Portugal Model shows that decriminalization works. Portugal faced unprecedented overdoses and drug abuse, typically with heroine, and when they turned to decriminalization and treatment, overdoses and incarceration dropped significantly to almost none.
The Native American churches have held onto their ceremonial practices very tightly, and they struggle to find legal and sustainable access to Peyote, their sacred plant medicine.
Cody says, if cane syrup was made illegal because it is killing people, we wouldn’t ban the growth of corn, because it is sacred and used for so many other things
“Jail is one of the biggest problems for mushroom users” – Joe
Joe mentions that he was a little frustrated that Michael Pollan was able to take mushrooms and not go to jail, but the average person could go to jail
Cody says that he highly respects Michael Pollan and what he has done for the psychedelic revolution, and that he thinks that Pollan wouldn’t want anyone to go to jail for this
People like Michael Pollan and Tim Ferriss have done a tremendous job securing funding for Psychedelic Research
Peyote
Native American people had always been close to Cody’s heart
As a philanthropist, he didn’t know where to begin
There is a myriad of problems facing Native American communities
About 5 years ago, it just came into consciousness
He got connected to Sandor of the Native American church
He learned about ceremony and it became absolutely clear that he had to be a part of it
It was an unclear path on how to support the community in the beginning, there was no 501C-3, there were no other philanthropists, the community is so large
“How to support them in the continuance and empowerment of their using of a highly potent and healing substance to treat communities that have suffered so much, that was the key question” – Cody
Looking at the threat and endangerment of the Peyote plant was the most important part of securing the preservation of this sacred plant
Synthetic Mescaline is difficult to access and expensive
Ceremony
It’s hard to track the ancient original threats to the traditions
The Native American churches have held onto the ceremonial practices very tightly
It’s important that white people don’t just come in and tweak the ceremony
The average life expectancy for Native Americans is only in their 50s
They have gone through so much suffering, and they are very awake, sensitive people that are holding this culture and practice close to them
Alcoholism is one of the largest problems in Native American communities, and Peyote has shown to be a highly tangible benefit and cure for alcoholism
Preservation
It has taken over 4 years to begin building these alliances
Riverstyx and Bronners have been the only sources of funding, they need more
Through this, they purchased 605 acres of land for peyote preservation in Texas
600 acres may not solve the Peyote crisis, but it is a start and has opened the doors to connect with other farmers that has now led to 12,000 acres dedicated to peyote preservation
This is to return sovereignty and control to the Native
After the land was purchased, they had a pilgrimage with the Navajo
Peyote is God to them, it’s their connection to the spiritual realm
Native Americans have resisted acculturation and stuck to their ways, that is their strength
RiverStyx Foundation attempts to lessen human suffering caused by misguided social policy and stigma, while advocating enhanced opportunities for healing, growth, and transformation in such areas as drug policy, criminal justice, and end-of-life care. The Riverstyx Foundation believes in the human potential for healing, growth, and transformation. The Riverstyx Foundation works to provide a bridge to the relinquished parts of ourselves, our society, and our ecology, to ease those fears and prejudices by funding projects that demonstrate the potential for healing and beauty, when life is embraced in its fullest expression.
In the heart of Manhattan’s busy Greenwich Village, the Horizon’s Conference: Perspectives on Psychedelics, graced the Cooper Union Great Hall on October 12th and 13th. The largest and longest-running gathering of the psychedelic community brings folks from around the globe together for presentations on psychedelic research findings and activism every year.
The conference first ran in 2007 as a single afternoon of talks at the Judson Memorial Church with around 250 attendees. This year, both days were sold out and attendance exceeded 2,600 people, not including after-parties and other unofficial events around town.
This was also the first year that offered pre-conference classes for physicians as well as interested individuals, like Introduction to Psilocybin Therapy with Bill Richards and Rosalind Watts, Intro to MDMA Therapy for Clinicians led by Shannon Clare Carlin and Marcela Ot’alora, Intro to Ketamine Psychotherapy, and Sexual Ethics in the Psychedelic Community, all of which were sold out on Friday, October 11th.
But what kind of talks are given in such a collegiate atmosphere, at a podium that’s hosted leaders such as Abraham Lincoln, Susan B. Anthony, and Barack Obama? On day one, Julie Holland, M.D. and author of Weekends at Bellevue hosted the science-themed presentations, including recent research on psilocybin from the Imperial College London team, mindfulness-assisted Ketamine therapy by Elias Dakwar, M.D., the potential harms and benefits of 5-meO-DMT given by Alan K. Davis, PhD, among other fascinating and informative talks.
Then on day two, the theme switched to culture and Bia Labate, Executive Director of Chacruna and MAPS’s cultural specialist hosted presentations on psychedelics in the media by the DoubleBlind Mag founders, the indigenous peyote way of life by Steven Benally, president of Azee’ Bee Nahagha Nation (formerly known as the Native American Church of Navajo Land), the intersection of art and psychedelic-assisted therapy by artist and activist, Swoon, along with other important and moving discussions.
Let’s take a look at three main themes that emerged this year at Horizon’s to get a sense of the kinds of issues the psychedelic community is currently debating.
1. Psychedelics are coming, but how? Medicalization vs. Decriminalization vs. Legalization
The conversation at this year’s Horizon’s seemed to move past whether or not legal psychedelics are coming. Everyone at the conference seemed to agree that the future includes some kind of legal option for substances like psilocybin, but now the question is: What’s the best model for moving forward?
Yet, even for the psychedelic community, Hart’s ideas are somewhat radical. Other organizations in the space strongly believe in a more medicalized model, where psychedelics wouldn’t be legal to use and possess by anyone, but instead only by doctors who would administer them in a controlled environment to qualifying patients. It’s a big debate in the community, especially considering the medicalization of psychedelics probably wouldn’t be accessible to everyone because of the high price tag that will likely come attached.
Decriminalization is the third option, but can still fall short of being enough for the safest and most responsible drug use. For this reason, many in the community see it more as a step toward full, adult-use legalization than the finish line. In Hart’s talk, he pointed to the fact that law enforcement can still marginalize certain groups, especially POC (people of color), with decriminalization, and without regulations and purity testing of substances, people don’t have enough information to use drugs safely.
2. Economic Models of Psychedelic Expansion
Which brings us to our next point, if psychedelics are legalized, will companies be able to make a profit from selling them? Could “Big Psychedelics” come in and monopolize the space?
George Goldsmith, Bia Labate, Dr. James Rucker
While this issue was brought up in many contexts at Horizons, it was the center of discussion on Sunday morning at a panel titled, “Economic Models for the Expansion of Psychedelics”. George Goldsmith, co-founder and CEO of Compass Pathways, a for-profit company that has patented synthetic psilocybin and threatens to monopolize the space, was a member of the panel and put in the hot seat by many in the community, both during the Q & A and by the other panelists. Goldsmith is already a millionaire and is poised to make the most profit and have the most control over medicalized psilocybin, and that is cause for alarm for many people in the community. Most of the other organizations sponsoring research into psychedelic-assisted therapy are not-for-profit organizations, like MAPS with MDMA and the Usona Institute with psilocybin.
Other options for psychedelic expansion were also addressed in this discussion, like the “pollinator approach” by economics and public policy professor, Bennet A. Zelner, PhD, which is a more community-based model of resource and information sharing and distribution.
3. “Coming Out” as a Psychedelic User
Lastly, another main theme that was touched on in both presentations and private conversations was the need of community members to “come out” publicly as psychedelic users. The idea is to show the mainstream that anyone can be a responsible psychedelic (or other type of drug) user to try and break some of the stigma that still surrounds these substances. If we can change the public perception of psychedelics, then a shift in law and policy could naturally follow.
There’s even a group from Costa Rica trying to start an international coming-out campaign on February 20, 2020 called “Thank You Plant Medicine” to support folks in telling their transformative psychedelic stories publicly.
It was a busy and exciting year at Horizons NYC, and a great opportunity for the community to come together to push the conversation forward. These are three major issues to continue to pay attention to as psychedelic research and decriminalization progress!
About the Author
Michelle Janikian is a journalist focused on drug policy, trends, and education. She’s the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, and her work has also been featured in Playboy, DoubleBlind Mag, High Times, Rolling Stone and Teen Vogue. One of her core beliefs is ending the prohibition of drugs can greatly benefit society, as long as we have harm reduction education to accompany it. Find out more on her website: www.michellejanikian.com or on Instagram @michelle.janikian.
In this episode, Joe sits down with Jordan and Lou from Mycology Now, a company that makes and sells spore syringes for microscopy use. In the show, they talk about the start of Mycology Now, the culture change caused by psychedelics, and personal stories on how psychedelics changed their lives.
3 Key Points:
Mycology Now is a company that produces premium spores for microscopy use. The goal is to spread knowledge about mycology, one spore at a time.
We are living in an age of information that has never been experienced before, people have the tools to break the stigma on their own just by educating themselves.
Psychedelics are becoming a culture change agent, more and more people are becoming accepting of psychedelics, and psychedelics are helping people come together to create positive change.
Jordan and Lou are co-owners and creators of Mycology Now
The company runs out of Florida
Mycology Now is a company that sells spores for microscopy
They have two locations in Denver
The mission of the company is to spread spores and knowledge
Lou shares how his interest in mycology began
He says it began with his struggle with depression and suicidal tendencies
Psilocybin had ended up being the only thing that helped with the struggle, the depression was completely erased
Jordan shares his story
His mother was in a relationship when he was about 10 years old with an abusive man
This man abused narcotics, opioids
He was abusive mentally, physically and emotionally
He grew up being convinced that he wasn’t worthy of love, and he blamed himself
About 2 years ago, he discovered mushrooms, and was able to go into the painful parts of his childhood and forgive himself and heal from his trauma
“Although negative things did happen to me, and to my family, I was not the cause of it, and I should not have to carry that around with me.” – Jordan
He wants to do everything in his power to bring that to the rest of the world
Shattering the Stigma
One thing that they have noticed about the younger generation is that they are way more open and have way more acceptance of psychedelics and an interest in self care and mental health
“We are living in an age of information that has never been experienced before, people have the tools to break the stigma on their own just by educating themselves.” – Jordan
Joe mentions that in Colorado, psychedelics are a bit normalized to have conversation about
In Florida, the median age is 55, so there is more of a challenge because people that age grew up in the taboo time of psychedelics
The start of Mycology Now
It organically grew into a website
Lou says it was an entity that grew on its own
Joe predicts that in 2020, we are about to see the Psilocybin movement really take off
Joe brings up the Paul Stamets Stack, which is Cubensis, Lions Mane and Niacin
There are testimonials about auditory changes that you can measure, you can increase your ability to hear frequencies
They bring up an example of a deaf man being able to hear the waves of the ocean for the first time after practicing the Stamet’s stack
Psychedelics as a Culture Change agent
Some people say its the worst time in history, and other people say this is the best time in history
There is a hunger of more digestible ways of receiving information
Psychedelics can help us understand the impermanence of things
Lou brings up that Paul Staments and Dennis McKenna were the catalysts to his understanding of mycology
Jordan says that his inspiration and influence came from people at music festivals
People are very open and authentic when on psychedelics
Meeting real people with real lives who had profound change in their lives because of psychedelics are his major sources of inspiration
Psilocybin for Cancer and Depression
Lou’s sister was diagnosed with Metastatic breast cancer with a double mastectomy and was diagnosed with depression afterward
After talking about the health benefits, she took psilocybin, and laid down and disconnected with her body
Afterward, she was able to come out of it and talk about her ease with death
The experience felt like death itself, and having felt what death might feel like, she no longer experiences depression about her cancer
Final Fun Fact
Johns Hopkins psilocybin study on smoking cessation
80% of people were abstinent from smoking cigarettes on a 6 month followup
Those people smoked an average of 19 cigarettes per day for an average of 31 years of their life
Mycology Now is a humble small business dedicated to spreading awareness. They are a company that makes and sells spore syringes for microscopy use. Their Mushroom Spore prints and syringes speak for themselves; always having a heavy spore count.
In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Daniela Peluso, Cultural Anthropologist and Associate Director at Chacruna. In the show, they discuss guidelines for the awareness of against sexual abuse in Ayahuasca ceremony.
3 Key Points:
Ayahuasca settings bring together shamans and participants, and with the increasing occurrence of such encounters, there is an alarming rate of incidences where shamans make sexual advances toward participants during or following ceremonies.
Ayahuasca is a commonly used substance for seducing participants looking for healing, whom then return from their retreats needing additional healing from sexual abuse.
This guideline reviews some of the key behaviors to look out for and ways to prepare before attending an Ayahuasca retreat to avoid and protect oneself against sexual abuse.
There was an initiative that made a guideline for doing Ayahuasca but it was held back because there are so many different ways ceremony can be performed and it wasn’t accurate
Drinking with friends is wise
Drinking with experienced women or a couple is another wise move Abuse mainly happens to women but it does happen to men as well There is a higher chance for a person to speak up when they have someone they know and trust there with them Ayahuasca tourism is why sexual abuse is such a problem When someone doesn’t know that touch is out of the norm in ceremony, they might accept it because they were never informed that it’s wrong They may think that being touched sexually is just a part of the ceremony, and it’s not AyaAdvisors and Tripadvisor are both decent resources for reviews on Ayahuasca centers/ceremonial retreats Unless something goes terribly wrong, you will usually get good reviews Places also change over time
It’s not necessary for healers to touch intimate parts of your body or any area to which you do not consent There are forms of healing where the body is touched, so it’s important for the person to make known what is okay and not okay from the start
Curaciones, Sopladas and Limpiezas do not require you to remove your clothes If a shaman removes clothing, that may be a warning sign because that is not a part of tradition
Look out for warning signs that a healers intentions with you might be sexual When healers start to talk about how they aren’t married or that they can give you ‘special treatment’ or that sexual or ‘love magic’ is necessary for healing, that is a warning sign Use common sense and draw the line immediately if anything sexual comes up
Sexual Intercourse between healer and patient during ceremonies or directly after the ceremony is not acceptable in Ayahuasca tradition
Sexual intercourse with a healer does not give you special power or energy
Consider cultural differences and local behavioral norms when interacting with native healers, letting go of ethnocentrism Having an understanding of what is culturally normal is important
Consider cultural differences and local clothing customs
Protect your personal space, physically and spiritually Each person has a right to know their body and know what feels right and wrong to them No means no
Be wary if healers offer psychoactive substances other than those used during ceremonies
He is a Shaman, not a Saint! There is a lot more “I am a Shaman” these days, where it used to be more of “I am not a Shaman” Ayahuasca tourism definitely romanticized what being a Shaman really is
If violation occurs, get support People should speak up as quickly as they are able to, vocally or physically “There is no need to suffer in silence” – Daniela
Beware of what might appear to be consensual sex It has a lot to do with having the same form of communication, trust, and power dynamics
Beware of getting romantically involved
If you are aware of or witness sexual abuse, speak up
Final Thoughts
“Individuals have to accept that Ayahuasca has become a business and an industry as much as it is a spiritual practice, and that it includes the trappings of capitalism like exploitation and inequality.” – Daniela
Daniela Peluso is a cultural anthropologist whose current research focuses on indigenous Amazonian communities. She has worked over the last two decades in Lowland South America, mostly with communities in in the Peruvian and Bolivian Amazon. She is actively involved in various local efforts on issues relating to health, gender, indigenous urbanization and land-rights and works in close collaboration with indigenous and local organizations as reflected in her publications. She also specializes on the anthropology of finance. She received her PhD in 2003 from Columbia University and is a senior lecturer in social anthropology at the University of Kent. She is an Associate Director of the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines and on the board of the Society of Lowland South America (SALSA) and People and Plants International (PPI).
In this episode, Kyle interviews Laura Northrup, Marriage and Relationship Somatic Psychotherapist and creator of the podcast, Inside Eyes. Inside Eyes is an audio series about people using entheogens and psychedelics to heal from sexual trauma.
3 Key Points:
If you think sexual abuse is happening, its important to speak up! We live in a world where it’s scary to speak up, but at its core, it’s really scary to not speak up, and to let these things happen to our fellow humans.
Somatic work brings people the autonomy of their body that usually gets taken away when trauma is formed.
Dissociation is usually a side effect of trauma, and it’s common for a trauma patient to take psychedelics and become re-associative after one experience. But, if a patient was traumatized at a young age and dissociated their whole life, becoming re-associated can be stressful, and integration becomes really important.
Inside Eyes is an audio series about people using entheogens and psychedelics to heal from sexual trauma.
Laura says the name ‘Inside eyes’ means to look inward
Sexual violence happens in every community, as well as in the psychedelic community
“Entheogens and psychedelics can wake us up so we can be more empowered and better stewards to the earth. But just because someone uses these substances, it doesn’t mean that they will be operating at their highest self.” – Laura
Somatics
Laura is a psychotherapist in the Bay area who works with survivors of sexual trauma
There is a place where people get with their healing that is very difficult to move past
There is something on a spiritual level that needs to move to heal someone past their ‘block’
Somatic therapy is a huge part of preparing for and integrating these experiences to heal from trauma
Laura says when people talk about their healing, its common to only talk about the part when the entheogen or psychedelic comes in, but maybe not the 6 years of therapy they had before hand
She says she really wants to create the balance of including both the therapy and the entheogenic/psychedelic use
Laura says she also believes in community based healing
There is so much shame in secrecy
One theory of somatic therapy, is that there was a physical response that our body may have wanted to make during a moment of sexual trauma, and psychedelics and entheogens brings those movements out in therapy, to be able to heal
Somatic work brings people the autonomy of their body that usually gets taken away when trauma is formed
Integration
This thing can happen when you become extremely dissociated from trauma, and then you use psychedelics or entheogens, and you become associated after just one experience, thats great
But if you have trauma from a young age and have been dissociated for your whole life, one psychedelic experience can be very stressful
It takes a lot of integration to deal with the difficulties
Ketamine
Dissociation when you’re already suffering from dissociation has a healing effect
“Part of healing is going toward wholeness” – Laura
There is a lot of variation in what someone considers dissociation
“Being embodied is empowering, and being disembodied is different than being dissociated. People can become more embodied after using a dis-associative medicine.” – Laura
Laura also covers how people function in their relationships as they heal from their trauma
Alcohol is legal, its horrible for your body, it causes so many deaths yearly, yet we don’t look at Ayahuasca and MDMA and all these other medicines as a collective culture
Bystanders
If you think something is going on, it’s important to not just be polite and not say anything
The politeness is a sickness that we have in America
Psychedelics and entheogens can be really good at helping us be activists in healing both ourselves and others
We live in a world where it’s scary to speak up, but at its core, it’s really scary to not speak up, and to let these things happen to our fellow humans
Psychedelics and Entheogens get people into a deeper sense of their own truth
“We need to be in a globally aware place, we don’t need to just be healing ourselves, we need to all be healing.” – Laura
We need more connected relationships, if you spend today and have a more connected relationship to yourself or someone else, that is one step closer to healing our world
Advice
Just because you get connected to a group, does not mean that that group is the group you need to do your healing with
Do your research, and get references
Laura says she looks at psychedelic and entheogenic substance use from two lenses, she cares about the people taking it, and about the plants themselves
She says that some of these plant compounds are becoming endangered so it’s important to be mindful of that
She also says that some therapists and shamans use bodywork and ‘touch’ so it’s also important to be aware of that before ceremony or therapy
Touch can be both very healing, but also traumatizing, so it’s important to know boundaries
Horizons Event
Laura will be hosting an event at Horizons on sexual ethics in the psychedelic community, sign up here
Laura Mae Northrup is the creator and host of the podcast Inside Eyes, a series that explores the use of entheogens and psychedelics to heal sexual trauma. She is a practicing psychotherapist and educator. Her work focuses on defining sexual violence through a spiritual and politicized lens and supporting the spiritual integrity of our collective humanity. She is a champion of living more fully engaged and responsible lives through the healing use of entheogens and psychedelics. She lives and works in Oakland, CA.
After years of seeking refuge at the bottom of a bottle, Karen Shaw’s experimentation with psilocybin yielded unexpected discoveries… and a fresh start
Not long after Karen Shaw started microdosing psilocybin, a very distinct thought seemed to cry out, louder than the rest.
“One of the things I said to myself is I have
to make my life more beautiful. I have to do things to make my life beautiful
and happy.”
For months leading up to this point, Karen’s
life felt far from beautiful.
Having deviated from her career to start a
silversmithing business with her partner of 10 years, the venture turned sour
early on as their relationship disintegrated. With both her professional and
personal lives entwined in a deepening crisis, the depression and anxiety Karen
had struggled with for decades intensified and began to close in.
Laying out the story from her home office in
The Hague, at this point Karen paused and looked down at her teacup. A feeble
laugh and a pixelated Skype connection did little to disguise her lingering
pain.
“I’m a bit surprised. I thought I was over it.
But there’s obviously still something there. I’m happy to be talking about it,”
she said, lifting her chin. “They were bad days. Feeling like I could spiral
into the depths of despair and not come out of it.
“I felt like I was hanging on for dear life sometimes.
“Just trying to keep my sanity and keep going.
And of course, relying on drink too much.”
Alcohol had been a toxic ally during ongoing
bouts with mental illness. Feeling trapped in a decaying business still reeking
of her failed romance, Karen’s reliance on the habit grew.
“I think it was vodka at the time. If I’m
honest about it, I was probably drinking between half a bottle to a bottle of
it a day.”
***
Karen’s mounting dread and desperation, as well as her dissatisfaction with past mental health treatment, sent her searching for other solutions. Having stumbled across an article on microdosing a few years earlier, Karen decided it was an alternative measure she was willing to try. Living in the Netherlands, this was a significantly easier undertaking for her than it would be for many others.
“I bought a grow kit of magic mushrooms at a
shop down the road from me. I grew them, dried them and I started microdosing
in March 2017,” she said.
Following a protocol recommended by
psychologist and psychedelic researcher, Dr. James Fadiman, Karen took a
sub-perceptible dose of psilocybin mushrooms twice a week for six weeks.
“I would weigh out 0.2 to 0.3 of a gram and
put it in a little capsule and take that in the morning. I would do that on
Wednesdays and Sundays. They were my microdosing days,” she recalled.
From there, it didn’t take long for things in Karen’s life to start rearranging. Within weeks, she was finally able to pry herself from the doomed business and damaging relationship. While walking away was liberating, the reprieve was brief. At 59-years-of-age, having to join the unemployment line offered proof her life would have to get ugly before finding beauty.
“I was on employment benefits and I had the
opportunity to do some courses in how to design what you want to do with your
life. I remember feeling very insecure walking into those rooms, feeling
everybody was looking at me. I didn’t want to be there.”
The early days of her microdosing experiment
also proved a little bumpy. With some gentle coercion from the psilocybin she
was taking, Karen was forced to embrace a deeper level of vulnerability and
openness, which caused her to “feel a lot of anxiety at first. I think it’s
because I felt that I actually had to face the problems I was going through,”
she said. “It (microdosing) does make you think a lot more. It makes you
analyze yourself and why you do things and of course that can make you feel
uncomfortable.”
But as the days inched past, anxiety gave way
to something else.
“There was a gradual realization that things
were getting better. That I could handle things better. I was much calmer.”
Eventually, this shift unearthed another
realization Karen would never have thought possible… She was now ready to say
goodbye to an old and domineering friend.
“I started drinking less. I’ve not stopped. I
might have a glass of wine, or some cannabis, a joint after work. But I don’t
drink to excess. I don’t like getting drunk anymore. It’s not something I
enjoy.”
***
Following a 10-week break, Karen began her second round of microdosing, and the insights continued to flow, alongside some unexpected opportunities. A few months after making the tough decision to abandon silversmithing, someone approached Karen and offered her work on a small project. Given her background in graphic design and website creation, she decided to take it on. Then, a crazy notion caught her attention.
“I thought, ‘okay, now’s a good time to start
my own business.’ Which I did.”
Softly spoken and harboring a gentle temperament, Karen doesn’t come across as the bragging type. But as she described her newfound joy and contentment at growing her fledgling freelancing venture, she allowed herself a confident smile. Progress is going well. Networking events have filled her calendar as she seeks to expand her client base.
“Before, I just didn’t think I had it in me.
But I haven’t looked back since.”
Throughout this time, Karen has continued to
microdose on and off. She’s recently returned to it again, this time only
taking one dose a week. As well as using psilocybin to climb out of a
depressive slump, Karen found it’s benefitted her creativity, ultimately aiding
her work.
“When you microdose, you sort of go into this
flow state and become very, very aware of everything around you. At first, I
could get very distracted. But once I could control it and focus it on one
thing… well, you just forget everything. You get a sort of childlike delight.
It’s difficult to explain,” she said, shaking her head.
“I feel I can enjoy everything much more completely than
I have done for a long time.”
Digging into the depths of her artistic
potential, Karen has also discovered a love of writing. With the freedom to
explore a new passion, she’s since developed it into more than just a pastime,
and now offers it as part of her professional repertoire.
“I always thought I hated writing. These days,
I can spend hours getting the tone and the message right and enjoying the
language. I’d never enjoyed that before.”
While she’s relishing a fresh start, Karen realizes the difference between her old life and her recent achievements is terrifyingly slim. Asked where she’d be right now, had she not purchased that mushroom grow kit… Karen was adamant she’d be worse off.
“I’d probably still be drinking a lot and just
not enjoying life.”
Having come close to snaring a number of
helpdesk positions during her time searching for work, Karen is grateful such
an opportunity never came to fruition.
“I would have jumped at whatever came along.
I’d be sitting behind a computer answering problem emails all day and feeling
very bored and very unhappy with myself.”
***
While Karen’s career has enjoyed a kickstart,
the most radical transformation has been unfolding internally.
“One thing I noticed is I actually like
spending time on my own. I like being in my own head.”
This prospect, as simple as it seems, wasn’t
an option for Karen before microdosing. Stuck in a never-ending game of cranial
cat and mouse, she spent much of her mental capacity drowning out the pain of
her thoughts and problems. When this got too strenuous, liquor was able to
finish the job.
“My head was like one of those old telephone
exchanges,” Karen said, tensing her hands all talon-like above her light brown
hair to emphasize the analogy. “And it was a terrible mess. I didn’t know what
my problems were. I didn’t know how to turn my life around. I didn’t know how
to stop drinking. I didn’t want to
stop drinking.”
The biggest gift psilocybin gave her, Karen
said, was a “brain reboot”.
“It’s as if you had all this chaos in your
brain then all of a sudden, it sorts itself out and all of the connections are
working properly again. You can think more clearly and make better decisions.”
While the phrase “brain reboot” feels as if it
was lifted straight from the greasy elevator pitch of a Shake Weight salesman,
proof of Karen’s claim goes far beyond her words — it’s written all over her
demeanor. The current portrait of Karen Shaw hasn’t a single brushstroke of the
anxious scrapheap she spent half the interview describing.
“I think if you spoke to my eldest daughter,
she would say that I’m a very, very different person now than I used to be.”
So different, in fact, that talking to this
daughter wasn’t something even Karen herself could do back then. Difficulties
communicating led to frequent confrontations. The shame she carries about for
being inattentive to her children’s needs was just as easy to pick up on as her
own emotional scarring.
“When you feel pain inside, it’s very
difficult to connect with other people. You tend to lash out at them and not be
aware of their situation and their feelings,” she said. “I don’t think I’d ever
thought about my role as a mother before. I sort of just became a mother but
never thought about what that really means. Which sounds awful doesn’t it?”
As Karen’s relationship with psilocybin
deepened, so too did the frayed relationship with her eldest daughter start to
mend. Being less swept up in her perceived problems, Karen’s empathy grew.
Perhaps for the first time in her life, Karen started truly listening to her
daughter.
“She’s much more willing to phone me about her
problems and I’m not just able to help her more, but I’m happy to as well. I’m
gradually getting this feeling that I want to be a role model.
“I want to show my daughters that you can work for
yourself. You can be an independent woman and enjoy your life. I’d never
thought that before.”
Admitting this was a completely unexpected
development in her microdosing journey, the sheepish excitement that crept into
Karen’s features betrayed her gratitude for it nevertheless.
“I’m even looking forward to being a
grandmother. Before, that was something I didn’t want to think about. I thought
being a grandmother meant you were old!” Karen laughed, but was cut short by
the follow up: Is it possible a reconciliation may never have taken place?
“I think if I’d carried on like I was, then I
really think we might have grown further and further apart. It’s awful to think
that was definitely a possibility.”
***
Beyond the prospect of becoming a grandmother,
Karen has much more to look forward to. Chief among all of that is a commitment
to spend as much time as possible with herself.
Being at home, enjoying creative pursuits,
cooking, and gardening now sit at the top of her list of priorities. The simple
pleasures, it seems, are where she’s discovering vitality, as well as that
all-important objective she set out to achieve back when her life fell down
around her ankles — these days, Karen finds beauty where she’d never once cared
to look.
“I can spend hours just watching the birds and
the insects… Oh, and the spiders!” Karen added, an overt tinge of enthusiasm
taking hold of her voice. Someone imbued with a healthy distrust of spiders
might even describe her tone as bearing an irrational relish. “I find myself
being blown away by the incredible beauty of their webs and how they made them
and what clever little creatures they are.
“I even postponed trimming one of my bushes because a
spider had its web up and it was obviously preparing for winter. I wouldn’t
have thought that way before. I’m much more empathetic and feel very connected
to everything.
Last year, a published study out of the
Spiritual Mind Body Institute suggested cultivating a belief in being connected
to something greater than oneself can “have profound impacts on people’s
lives”. Having highlighted exactly where in the brain transcendent states are
processed also helped researchers deduce that spiritual encounters aren’t just
limited to religious practice, but can be brought about in many varied ways.
Potentially, Karen’s newfound love of spiders, and nature, in general, may be helping her build a brighter outlook and find greater meaning.
“Life is such a great thing. It’s all around
us. The world is teeming with life and we’re just a tiny little part of this
living entity,” she said, before more muttering about sounding silly again.
As for microdosing, Karen plans to continue
with one capsule a week, for as long as she feels is necessary. Lately, the
toughest thing about it is actually remembering to take the dose. Without a
reminder set in her phone, she’s prone to forgetting it altogether. It’s a much
different relationship with substances she’s still getting used to, but
understandably, she doesn’t mind the change.
“I’m healing. I don’t know if that process will ever stop, because you’re always growing and changing. But it’s certainly put me on a different path and has me feeling a lot better about myself,” she said. “The world could do with a lot more microdosing, I think there are a lot of people who could benefit.”
About the Author
Jason Schwab: When a 10-week microdosing experiment helped Jason overcome a lifelong struggle with depression and anxiety, he immediately became a passionate advocate for the widespread acceptance of psychedelics. A believer in the power of informed, intentional substance use to foster positive transformation, Jason knows that pulling people’s stories out from the shadow of prohibition is key to inspiring true healing on a global scale. A former journalist, he now travels the world seeking out the everyday men and women taking ownership of their health and wellbeing, making a real difference in their own lives, and consequently, the lives of others.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Rachel Anderson and James Franzo, founders of the EDELIC Center for Ethnobotanicals. In the show, they talk about the benefits of creating a healing practice using botanicals such as Kratom and the need to decriminalize all plants.
3 Key Points:
EDELIC is a non-profit in Eugene, Oregon that began as a public lending library that has grown to a community of information, events, and conservatory of psychoactive botanicals.
Kratom can sometimes get a bad rep, commonly thought of as an opioid. But Kratom is not an opioid, it just affects the opioid receptors in the brain, respiration never changes, and it’s actually in the same category as the coffee family, so it gives a boost of energy.
There is not an economic incentive that puts the botanical research on the same level as synthetic research. At EDELIC, the goal is to create scientific evidence that validates citizen-led research, authentic scientific information, and create a scientifically valid, open science and praxis oriented, non-commodified access pathway, to and from the direct human & botanicals/fungi relationship while protecting the bounty emerging from therein.
EDELIC is a non-profit in Eugene Oregon that has been operating for 4 years
They started as a public lending library
They put on a weekly discussion group and host events
What started as a library, grew to a conservatory to protect plants, and now includes research
Conservatory
They have 15-16 psychoactive species, such as Salvia, Kratom, San-Pedro, etc.
Volunteers are able to help out in the garden
They are interested in growing the conservatory to have different climates that cater to each individual plant
Events
They have done both a CBD event and Kratom event, and have brought the plants from the conservatory
The events that they have been holding are based on community desire for more information on those plants
Kratom
Kratom has the potential to prevent deaths in the opioid crisis with less initial stigma than ibogaine, psilocybin, etc
The symptoms of withdrawal from Kratom are similar to withdrawal from coffee
Kratom is a plant and the benefits can be harnessed along with a practice
when habits are formed, a person doesn’t need to have a dependency on the Kratom
Kyle mentions that creating a practice is a foreign concept to some people, they think their healing comes solely from the substance and not the practice
The best way to take it is in tea form, and let all the intelligence centers of the body take the medicine in
James says he hears news and TED Talks on Kratom tinctures and extracts, and he thinks that leans Kratom toward that abusive behavior again
Using it continuously and re-upping on the go makes it less of a practice
“In all cases, were encouraging folks to focus on the whole botanical, letting the intelligence of the body to form the relationship with the plant will keep you safer than going in the other direction” – James
The goal is to use the Kratom to take away the pain to a point where the individual has more energy and to say, “what can I do to improve my health in this moment?”
That may look less like taking 100% of the pain away and taking it away just enough to have the energy to create a practice of healing without the reliance on another substance
Its generally safe, it has a predictable response in individuals, and it is legal
Kratom is not an opioid, it just effects the opioid receptors in the brain, respiration never changes, and its in the same category as the coffee family, so it gives a boost of energy
“Botanicals, integration practice, and realizing our internal intelligence centers can really influence and inform our decision making process” – James
Kratom can be tested, and there are industry standards similar to how cannabis is tested
Kratom is highly unregulated and you are taking a risk when not testing it for quality
Decriminalize Nature
In 1994, the World Trade Organization introduced this piece of legislation that says in US Patent Law, minor scientific alterations to natural botanical plants can be patented
Patent law protects scientific adaptations to botanicals, and therefore, the US claimed that third world countries owe us royalties for agricultural products
In Canada, they said to patent an indigenous plant is to steal from the third world country, and i n that case, the US owes other countries over 300 million and in pharmaceuticals, billions
That is why in the US, there is an urge to make money on synthetic versions of these plants
There is not an economic incentive that puts the botanical research on the same level as the synthetic research
The WTO does not recognize technology or innovations by farmers, artisans or grassroots innovators that happen in a grassroots setup
There are churches that are recognized at the federal level, they cant conduct research, but they have access to provide these plants
“We are hoping to create scientific evidence that validates citizen-led research, authentic scientific information, and create a scientifically valid, open science and praxis oriented, non-commodified access pathway, to and from the direct human & botanicals/fungi relationship while protecting the bounty emerging from therein. – James
Rachel notes that all funding so far has been from volunteers and donors
“I am strongly for decriminalizing nature, it protects the indigenous, it protects nature, there is no reason someone should be criminalized for using plants” – Rachel
There is a unique interplay between the laws at the local, state and federal level
Final Thoughts
There is a need for people to come together, a need to not feel alone, a need to share
If anyone is interested in starting a non-profit, Rachel and James are willing to help
Rachel’s focus is on somatic therapies and the healthy integration of plant practices. She has successfully fund-raised, planned and organized public events, hosted intentional integration practices with ethnobotanicals, created artwork, designed integration journals, met with the 4J school board to discuss drug awareness education in classrooms. Rachel brings power, stability, and genuine strength and determination to ECfES and acts as an original steward for the original ECfES vision.
About James Franzo
A 20-year journey of self-education (using what has now become a large part of the lending library we operate) inspired James to launch ECFES. Additionally, gaining experience working in the field of chemical dependency treatment and social services contributed further to his disenfranchisement with current policy and treatment modalities, and attracted him further to evidence-based approaches to drug policy reform and the mental health field in general. Specifically, potent ethnobotanical plants and mind/body methodologies for integrating them. James is also an honorably discharged military veteran, who served for six years. James has been the website content developer @ ECFES, library archivist, team builder, and steward of the original vision for ECFES, an ethnobotanical/psychedelic/entheogenic healing center under one roof.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to have a conversation about the 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival, Healing the Mind, Healing the Planet. Joe attended the conference and heard from many amazing speakers.
3 Key Points:
Joe attended The 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival last weekend, a festival and conference that celebrates all things fungal and brings together a cohort of enthusiasts, experts, and scientists.
There was a lot of talk on the topic of microdosing. Opinions ranged from the feeling that there isn’t enough valid data to prove that microdosing is effective, to some testimony on how microdosing has helped relieve cluster headaches or help with traumatic brain injuries.
There was some exciting news on innovative ways that mushrooms can be used medically to help fight disease or agriculturally to fight insects without using pesticides.
The Telluride Mushroom Festival took place August 14th – 18th
This festival is is a placeholder Psychedelic conference
In the mycology world, the psychedelic topic isn’t typically included in events
Attendees and Talks
Brick Bunyard, who runs psychedelic magazine
Tradd Cotter of Mushroom Mountain, an excitable mycologist
Larry Evans of Blue Portal
Teresa Egbert of Herbal Visionz, a Psychedelic enthusiast
Peter Hendrix and Sara Lappan spoke on a study for using psychedelics to curb cocaine use
David Nichols, chemist, was pretty optimistic about where the psychedelic movement is heading
He gave a super scientific talk around receptor sites and LSD
Music and Psychedelics
Joe says that there is a long history of music and psychedelics
Kyle mentions a podcast he listened to about someone bringing in their own music for a Ketamine therapy session
Psychedelic Therapy
There was someone at the conference that said psychedelic therapists should have psychedelic experiences and should be open about it
It was an interesting conversation at the conference
Joe says, “you don’t need PTSD to treat someone with PTSD, it’s not the most important factor. The most important factor is safety.”
Scientist Conference
Joe mentions a conference coming up in the fall in New Orleans that is a Scientist only conference
If a scientist has published serious, quantitative data they are invited
It’ll be the first gathering of its kind where there is finally enough data
Microdosing
David Nichols shared his opinion on microdosing, that there isn’t real data on it and that importance should be put toward medical uses
Folks in the audience were making claims about microdosing for migraines and traumatic brain injuries, etc
Are people taking sub-perceptual doses or a threshold dose?
Joe says a macro dose is a dose you can see (maybe the size of an ant), micro dose is something you need a microscope to see
The majority of people microdosing aren’t educating themselves on dose size
Interesting Moments from the Conference
Joe was surprised was how charismatic Tradd Cotter was
Tradd has plans to do mushroom retreats in Jamaica
The most exciting news is a new method of pulling out the antibiotic resistant ‘stuff’ in a person, culturing it out and introducing it to sterilized/colonized grain bag and then reintroducing it to the person so they aren’t antibiotic resistant anymore
This would be a mushroom bi-product that fights disease in humans in less than 24 hours
This same model could be used in cancer treatments or even agricultural applications, using mushrooms to fight disease or bugs that kill plants, etc
There were mushroom foraging walks and mushroom identification tables at the festival
Vendors included mushroom kombucha, mushroom jerky, festival clothing, etc
There was a guy from outside of Arizona who casts real psilocybin mushrooms and makes detailed metal jewelry out of them
The town is small and surrounded by super tall mountains, and the festival is dispersed around the town
It’s a small festival and a great way to make connections
“This is where you quit your job and dedicate your life to mushrooms” – Tradd Cotter
Mushroom farming is one of the few businesses you can start with under $5,000
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
These are the people who toil away in obscurity for years doing the hard lab work with little to no recognition for their efforts. It is my opinion that “science” gets way too much credit while real scientists (not celebrities in lab coats) should be the ones getting the credit and publicity of groundbreaking research. I believe that the recent DMT study published in Scientific Reports is by far the most important study in 2019 and all the scientists involved in the study should deserve wide name recognition and credit for their efforts. Credit needs to go to the following: lead author and fast-rising DMT researcher Jon Dean, Dr. Jimo Borjigin, Dr. Steven Barker, Dr. Rick Strassman, Dr. Michael M. Wang, Dr. Tiecheng Liu, Dr. Sean Huff, and Dr. Ben Sheler.
It’s difficult to recall the last time that I had a great meal and made the generic claim of “I love food”. Generally speaking, it’s either the restaurant that receives compliments, the type of meal that receives praise, or homage is paid to the chef directly. This is why it’s so amusing and yet perplexing when people seem to generically pronounce their “love for science” when an interesting study is published. Similarly to the cooks of a great meal… it is humans, people, scientists that actually carry out the experiments.
JC: So… while many people have heard the backstory of how Dr. Rick Strassman got involved in DMT research due to his book “The Spirit Molecule”, not many know about how you got your start in this field. Would you mind giving us a little bit of background as to how all of this came about?
Jimo: I had been working on the pineal gland and studying how dynamic secretion of melatonin from the pineal gland teaches us about how circadian clock works in the mid-2000. I was also teaching our graduate students about the pineal gland. One day in 2011, when I googled the word “pineal gland” (hoping to find some cool pictures to include for my class teaching), I came across Rick Strassman’s book (DMT: The Spirit Molecule) and the documentary about the book. I was very surprised when I heard Rick saying that DMT was made and secreted in the pineal gland, since I knew nothing about it. I emailed Rick directly and asked him for the evidence that his statement was based on, and was told that it was just his speculation. I told Rick that I was interested in testing his theory, as we were routinely performing pineal microdialysis experiments and I believed that if DMT is ever secreted from the pineal gland, we should have them in the dialysates. Rick was nice and encouraging; he introduced me to Steve Barker who routinely analyzing controlled substances in his lab, and the rest was history.
JC: Good stuff… so let’s just dive right into it…you did a really big study recently. I’m obviously biased but this is probably the most important study of the year for sure. Your research team found the circulating levels of DMT at similar levels to very commonly studied neurotransmitters serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine. Being that you stated that this was found in the extracellular fluid am I correct in assuming that this is the cerebrospinal fluid? If so, where do you hypothesize that the DMT is synthesized in terms of the measurements you took at the cerebral cortex?
Jimo: Oh wow (laughing). Thank you I’m very flattered. Well, it’s within tissue in the extracellular space… we didn’t really stick a probe only into the brain ventricles where the cerebrospinal fluid is in abundance. We stuck our probe into the brain tissue where neurons are packed. So it is definitely extracellular. So, these are not the quantities within individual cells… I’m assuming that DMT is a neurotransmitter and it might be actually packed and stored inside the vesicles within neurons. The release is only activity-dependent if DMT is truly a neurotransmitter. The basal levels of the 3 monoamine neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine), which the DMT concentrations were compared with, were also assayed the same way. This means that they inserted a microdialysis probe into the brain to measure the basal level of those 3 neurotransmitters, which is why we think DMT is comparable.
JC: Where do you hypothesize that the DMT was synthesized when taking measurements at the cerebral cortex? Any specific cells?
Jimo: We believe that DMT is made in the neurons. The reason for that is the following… we showed that one of the DMT synthetic enzymes AADC which is also called DDC… the same protein with 2 different names. This is the first of the two DMT enzymes that converts tryptophan into tryptamine. It is essential for all other monoamine neurotransmitter synthesis, but it is also required for DMT synthesis. For a long time people knew that there are neurons in the cerebral cortex (really all over the brain) that contain AADC. However, none of the other 2 enzymes (tyrosine hydroxylase or tryptophan hydroxylase) that are essential for the synthesis of canonical monoamine neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine were found. It is tryptophan hydroxylase (-TPH2 in the brain) that is required for the synthesis of serotonin together with AADC; tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) together with AADC required for the synthesis of dopamine (and norepinephrine). So when people look for monoamine neurons that synthesize serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, … they always have to look for both enzymes (AADC + TH/TPH2). So in these scattered cortical neurons that contain AADC (called D-neurons), people couldn’t find either one of those enzymes (TH/TPH2). So clearly there is a lot of work to do for us to really have a thorough understanding of the details of the localization of potentially DMT produced in neurons in the brain. The reason we think these are neurons is because D-neurons were confirmed to be neurons in both human brains and animal brains in the cortex by others. But we still need to use a neuron-specific biomarker to measure the colocalization of a neuronal marker in the INMT- positive cells to thoroughly demonstrate that these neurons are the source of DMT or have the capacity to produce DMT.
JC: Prior to this study much of the discussion surrounding endogenous DMT from researchers in the field was based on stating that the lungs were the primary source of DMT.
Jimo: Right, right.
JC: From what I understand this was based on the levels of INMT found in the lungs… right?
Jimo: Correct! Yeah it’s amazing (laughing).
JC: But this recent study found not only INMT but AADC co-localized which we basically just covered. But in essence… the same people that were saying that DMT is not produced in the brain or not produced in the pineal gland…based on the INMT-DMT lung hypothesis it would seem that they would be forced to concede that DMT is produced in the brain now?
Jimo: Yeah (laughing)… I would think that any reasonable person would say that. It’s amazing to me that a lot of people were saying that DMT is made in the lungs. In the case of DMT production, it’s been known for a long time that it requires 2 enzymes and ideally, the 2 enzymes would be situated in the same cells in order for that cell to produce DMT. And yet… people are simply just looking at INMT expression and assuming that that alone is sufficient to produce DMT (without AADC).(
JC: Some people think that this study puts the pineal gland theory to rest. I feel like that’s not entirely correct.
Jimo: I think you’re right.
JC: This is the first study that actually shows that the human pineal gland has INMT/AADC in order to make DMT.
Jimo: Yes.
JC: While the extracellular levels of DMT in the cerebral cortex were similar between normal and pinealactomized rats, is it possible that the pineal produced DMT has a greater effect in the third ventricle or thalamus region in comparison to the cerebral cortex levels?
Jimo: Well… all I can say is that the neocortex can produce DMT in the absence of a pineal gland. Our study did not really address the issue of pineal DMT production. The fact is that in our data in the absence of the pineal gland the DMT levels go up (not significantly, though). Our data is relatively crude based on the fact that we surgically removed the pineal gland. When you yank the pineal gland out you disturb the blood-brain barrier a bit since the pineal gland is part of the blood-brain barrier preventing things from going in and out. So we don’t know why it goes up in the absence of the pineal gland. I haven’t given it too much thought but all we’re showing is that the brain doesn’t really require the pineal gland to produce DMT. The pineal may produce a small level of DMT but it’s clearly not contributing a huge amount. If the pineal gland produced 3X as much then we should have seen a difference. I strongly believe that the cortex (where we utilized our microdialysis probe) makes and secretes DMT independent of the pineal gland. The pineal gland is not essential and is not required… it doesn’t mean the pineal gland itself cannot make DMT since all the machinery is there. But we had a long paragraph in the discussion part of the paper discussing why we think the pineal gland may not contribute much to DMT production. If you look at the affinity of the AADC enzyme, it actually prefers to convert 5-hydroxtryptophan (5-HTP) into 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT). For serotonin production tryptophan is first converted to 5-hydroxtryptophan by TPH and the second step for serotonin synthesis is converting 5-hydroxytrytophan (5-HTP) to 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT); so apparently, AADC has a higher affinity for 5-HTP than tryptophan. So if both 5-HTP and tryptophan are around (in this case in the pineal gland) AADC would prefer to catalyze the reaction of 5-HTP to 5-HT… so it kind of ignores tryptophan. However, in other cells if AADC is only looking at tryptophan and if 5-HTP is not around, it should readily convert tryptophan to tryptamine.
JC: Are there any neurotransmitters or any endogenous biochemical(s) for that matter that have been identified to be rat specific in comparison to that of humans as far as we know? What I mean by this is whether there is any data to suggest that rats produce different biochemicals than humans in the brain or throughout the body?
Jimo: Usually when you go up the evolutionary tree, it is higher-order animals such as humans that have something that the rats don’t have and it doesn’t go the other way around. Especially being that both rats and humans are both mammals, so it’s highly unlikely. On the other hand, if you go down to invertebrates or lower vertebrates who have very unique habitats they may have stuff that humans don’t need. So my answer is NO, not as far as I know. There are genes and proteins only found in humans, but not in mice or rats. I am not aware of any genes or proteins present only in rats but not in humans.
JC: So that would mean that for someone to claim that DMT is not found in the human brain because the research only took place in live rats (although you took in vitro sampling of human brains that observed the same exact enzymes that rats produced in order to synthesize DMT) that they would be making claims that fall outside the scope of scientific data to date?
Jimo: Unless I’m mistaken Dr. Steven Barker has already measured DMT in the brains of deceased individuals and trace amounts in their blood. This could be a question for Steven regarding the solid evidence of showing DMT is found and collected from humans. All reasonable people would agree that if human brains are found to express both INMT and AADC, it is highly likely that DMT will be made in the human brain. The next step would be to stick a probe in a live human’s brain so we could monitor DMT at a level comparable to other neurotransmitters but usually, that level of proof is rarely demanded for research because it is so unusual to be able to get samples using such invasive techniques. No one would want to volunteer for that kind of experiment being that it comes with some kind of risk. So I don’t believe it is necessary. Having experimental proof from humans would certainly help, but it is not always feasible to do so.
JC: I think all the hard-nosed “skeptics” continuing to question whether humans brains produce DMT following this recent study should volunteer for the brain-probe study…
Jimo: (laughing) But remember we don’t want to really make any enemies. My take is that unless you have evidence against the human brain-DMT hypothesis there isn’t much to say. We are doing our best effort.
JC: Going back to the yanking out of the pineal gland… Being that DMT has been observed to have anti-inflammatory properties, is it possible that yanking out the pineal gland causes cerebral inflammation-inducing a periphery response to synthesize more DMT to alleviate this then causing the levels to go up?
Jimo: That is highly unlikely as in the periphery, there are very few cells that contain both AADC and INMT in contrast to the brain. Plus, if there were any inflammation, it should be within the brain near where the pineal gland was in touch with, which is not known to exert peripheral inflammatory responses. We performed numerous pineal removal surgeries over the years, have never observed any signs of notable inflammatory responses in rats.
(JC Note: I didn’t clarify when I stated “periphery.” I meant the periphery area of the brain in near proximity to the pineal gland wound not peripheral nervous system outside of the brain. It was my fault for not clarifying.)
JC: Ok. I find it super interesting that much of the same team that did this study also did the 2013 cardiac arrest study which observed the global and coherent surge in gamma waves in the brain. Based on the literature out there it seems as though exogenous DMT and Ayahuasca also induce increases in gamma waves. Do you believe that there is a possibility of a tight correlation between the upregulation of endogenous DMT and gamma activity?
Jimo: Well… in this recent paper we didn’t even have cardiac arrest in the title so it wasn’t our focus. The main message from this recent paper is that DMT can be produced and released from the neurons in the brain at the level that is comparable to other monoamine neurotransmitters. My students are super excited about our 2013 cardiac arrest paper and the link between the DMT and near- death experiences. The two areas of studies (near-death consciousness and DMT) emerged coincidentally at the same time in our lab as 2 independent branches of research which appear to have the potential to converge into a related research theme. Clearly Rick Strassman talked about this hypothesis and the idea has been floating around out there for many years and it sounds reasonable. In the recent paper, we wanted to know whether there was anything that could upregulate or downregulate DMT release. So when we induced experimental cardiac arrest in animals, their DMT levels went up in some but not all animals, which is interesting. The recent study was not done to demonstrate DMT levels in cardiac arrest but it was more based on showing that there are physiological events that can increase DMT. Some kind of physiological event can regulate DMT release. Regulated release of chemicals is required steps for something to be called a neurotransmitter. We are trying to push this work toward demonstrating DMT as a neurotransmitter. Some interpret our data as DMT being linked to NDE’s which is not my intention or the goal of the study; but clearly a lot of people are interested in the study because of that potential link. However, for DMT-NDE to be linked, we would have to do the same exact study we did in our 2015 PNAS paper where we monitored neurotransmitter release at 60 second intervals and measured the amounts of neurotransmitters released… and it was a huge amount. Within 2 minutes of asphyxic cardiac arrest, dopamine went up, norepinephrine went up, serotonin went up, GABA went up… not all neurotransmitters went up so high though. Glutamate only went up 2-fold… so it’s a massive release of various neurotransmitters, a tightly regulated process that happens super- fast. So we would have to monitor the release of DMT at a finer resolution in order to really say anything about whether DMT is potentially involved. That study still remains to be done.
JC: I guess what I’m asking you is to maybe hypothesize about… in the 2013 study you saw a huge surge in global gamma waves. Basically faster brain activity…
Jimo: Yes.
JC: In the 2015 study you basically saw a “brainstorm” in which a bunch of neurotransmitters were upregulated.
Jimo: Yes.
JC: Do you think it’s that far-fetched to think that DMT might be a part of that biochemical mix and that it could contribute to the gamma wave correlation or is that still too speculative?
Jimo: It’s possible. I guess until we do the experiment we’re not sure, we don’t know. There’s a possibility that those 2 are linked.
JC: In terms of a definitive way to know whether DMT is tightly correlated with gamma waves… is that something that you could figure out with an INMT-KO animal?
Jimo: Yeah… I think if a gamma surge disappeared then that might be a way to support the hypothesis.
JC: That makes sense… but it wouldn’t even really have to disappear necessarily right? It could just be affected.
Jimo: Correct… yes.
JC: Switching gears… One of the biggest issues I’ve seen is that people are so excited about psychedelic research and there seems to be a decent amount of funding for the field but I think that the endogenous research is even more interesting.
Jimo: I think so too (laughing). I agree with you there.
JC: Much of the psychedelic research these days focuses on fMRI studies so it seems like cerebral blood flow seems to be the predominant measure of perceived activity. However, in a yet to be published interview I did with Dr. Mauro Zappaterra he stated that based on his research, cerebrospinal fluid can act as a signaling medium being that it can carry the neurotransmitters and signaling throughout the brain on a global level. This would seem to add another layer of complexity in terms of analyzing brain activity when comparing fMRI to EEG. What are your thoughts regarding this?
Jimo: FMRI monitors changes associated with blood flow. Robin Carhart- Harris has done psychedelic work with fMRI and the subjects actually show the lowering of fMRI measures. It’s a different mode of regulation so we don’t really know… I wish when Rick Strassman did his study he had everybody monitored for EEG or fMRI to see what happened to them. My guess is that study is coming and somebody is working on that. We can easily do an EEG study on animals but we just cannot ask them what they experience. Sooner or later it will have to be done.
JC: It’s interesting that fMRI shows a decrease in whatever might be termed as brain activity but in EEG studies it shows that there’s an increase in faster oscillations and a decrease in slower ones.
Jimo: Right.
JC: A lot of stuff to uncover there…
Jimo: Correct.
JC: While the recent study focused on DMT and the enzymes INMT and AADC… what are your thoughts on researching endogenous monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) such as tribulin, tryptoline, neurocatin or pinoline and their relationship with endogenous DMT?
Jimo: Yeah, there is a lot to do and the future research is just wide- open for these questions to be addressed. Our study simply points out that there is a whole new world out there for people who are interested in the molecular basis of altered states of consciousness and a potential new direction for looking into psychiatric disorders. So I think there are lots of interesting things that can happen but right now we have to focus on something that the National Institutes of Health (NIH) could consider funding. We have to convince them that this is something that may be medically relevant and that we’re not just thinking about euphoric states and psychedelic states… something that can benefit patients.
JC: Yeah… would you consider private funding?
Jimo: Oh yeah totally.
JC: We’ll go off the record with that discussion…
Jimo: (laughing)
JC: Do you have any interest in replicating this recent study but also measuring levels of 5-MEO-DMT and Bufotenine?
Jimo: Oh yeah. Once again this is another area that is wide open that one can do. It all depends… once again… on funding. Right now people are lined up to want to work in my lab. Every year, lots of graduate students contact me for a position my lab; and the first thing I tell them is: I am sorry that I can’t take you in my lab because I don’t have NIH funding for DMT research.
JC: (Cutting in) Horrible
Jimo: (laughing) That’s the standard answer for several years now. I just recently accepted a very good student who insisted on joining my group regardless of the lack of NIH funding. In any case, we try to collaborate with people that have grants to make it happen; but the key is to have research funding to support the DMT endeavor.
JC: Absolutely. That’s one of the most frustrating things I see in terms of scientific research. There’s so much money that goes into genetic research and things of that nature but there’s so little funding that goes into endogenous DMT research by comparison.
Jimo: There are various ways that this line of research can now be supported because we’ve shown that DMT is really in the brain and may serve some kind of functions; we just need funding support to do more studies. That’s why I’m happy to discuss this research with the media, so we can raise more awareness and hopefully garner funding for our DMT research. Scientists tend to stay in their labs and do their own research and it takes years to get their data out there to be in the public and to gain support from the public. I think that the publicity this paper has created (which surprised me) may generate a lot of interest.
Jimo: (laughing) I think it would be faster to just wait for the paper to be published right? I don’t know who the author of the paper is though.
JC: It was a study in which the author of the paper passed away so that’s why Dr. Barker said it didn’t end up getting published.
Jimo: Oh. I see.
JC: I think it would be a really interesting replication study in the sense of Barker’s speculations that we have an endogenous hallucinatory system and that a lot of hallucinogens might just be activating that system rather than simply acting on their own.
Jimo: That’s interesting… hmmm. Yeah… well… I’m not sure. There are so many things to do. We have to choose wisely… I have to pick my fights wisely (laughing). I guess it depends on whether the funder is really interested in pushing that line of research and if it’s somehow in-line with my own interest. I am interested in things like demonstrating that DMT is a neurotransmitter which is something that requires some work, and establishing the whole system of DMT centric neurotransmission. Beyond that… as far as looking at the homologues and endogenous system… like you said monoamine oxidase inhibitors and the recent study you mentioned regarding Barker & LSD, there are a lot of interesting things to do (laughing). It would require more dedicated, highly motivated students and people working hard to making it happen.
Jimo: Gamma waves need to be mediated by neurotransmitter secretion that is acting on the post-synaptic neurons. So there has to be a neurochemical reaction that translates into electrical signaling. So I wouldn’t be surprised at all if DMT could be one of the many neurochemicals (not the only one), contributing to the experience although it could be a key chemical. The only real way to test how much DMT plays a role in the experience is to have a DMT deficient human (or group of them) undergo the “God Helmet” and have them report the types of experiences they have and compare them to people secreting DMT normally. So basically I would say that it is not impossible, unless data shows otherwise.
JC: Do you know if there are any methods to induce respiratory fluctuations in animals without inducing anesthesia? The reason why I ask is because breathing techniques such as the Wim Hof Method (WHM), Stan Grof’s Holotropic Breathwork, Joe Dispenza’s meditation, and the more ancient yogic renditions (Pranayama) have all been cited to induce visionary states when carried out for prolonged periods of time. There’s much speculation regarding DMT’s involvement and based on our conversation (and recent study) it wouldn’t be the least bit surprising as to the upregulation of DMT (alongside everything else) from these breathing exercises. Is it feasible to do a comparable study of breathing exercises in live animals?
Jimo: It’s something that I haven’t looked into so I don’t have an answer right now. Changes in breathing patterns can lead to excitation in the central nervous system. In an animal model I think you can create alterations to their trachea… it would be kind of a reversible time-controlled experiment in which you stimulate the nervous system of the animal to breathe harder. Experimentally it seems doable, as long as there are animal models to induce hyperventilation similar to that as humans it’s possible. I’m almost thinking it would be much faster and easier to do this study in humans but the invasive nature of measurement is an issue.
JC: I hear you Jimo. If it was up to you… what would you say are the top 5 studies that need to take place within this field that you are specifically focused on right now?
Jimo: The first one is that DMT is actually a neurotransmitter. After that, we would like to know how the DMT synthesis is controlled; and how it’s release is regulated. My prediction is that some of the regulatory mechanisms in charge of DMT release might be dysfunctional in patients with psychiatric disorders that feature hallucinations. We know that DMT has hallucinatory properties, so it’s not too far-fetched to predict the link there. The potential role of DMT in regards to Near Death consciousness remains to be experimentally tested explored with the gamma waves as you discussed in your blog. That’s something we can easily do to demonstrate that endogenous DMT can stimulate gamma waves.
JC: Ok.
Jimo: And, of course, whether DMT contributes to neural correlates of dream states is also an interesting question.
Jimo: So we’re not the first one to bring up the lack of funding! (laughing)
JC: It’s amazingly horrible. In terms of the human studies… do you have any ideas on how you might go about doing endogenous human studies? Have you looked into any of the technology out there that might be able to do it less invasively?
Jimo: Well… I believe there are human patients who are helped and being diagnosed with a microdialysis setup in certain parts of their brain. I think if we can find patients like that, we could potentially collaborate with their physicians or scientists who are working with those patients and maybe get a sample from them.
JC: That makes sense… like somebody being treated for hydrocephalus or something?
Jimo: Yeah something like that or even from someone undergoing surgery for brain tumor removal. Their brains are already exposed so maybe we can share a little bit of CSF from them and monitor their levels while the patients are alive.
JC: Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Have you heard much about a technology called proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy? I was reading that it has the ability to measure brain fluctuations in glutamate and glutathione non-invasively. Would this be applicable to DMT?
Jimo: Hmm… I’m not sure. I haven’t really looked into any measurement of DMT in humans yet. But that’s something to look into once we’re going that route… I’ll think about that (laughing).
JC: Well Jimo… it seems like I have some work to do in terms of reaching out to some people to try and get your lab some funding to continue this very important research. Thank you very much for your time… do you have anything you’d like to say in closing?
Jimo: What I’d like to emphasize is how important collaboration is to make science happen, not just the funding. If Rick (Strassman) did not introduce me to Steve Barker, our first DMT paper (Barker et al., 2013) would not have been materialized, and Jon Dean, the first author of our DMT paper and a very dedicated graduate student passionate about psychedelic research, would not have joined my team to produce the current publication (Dean et al., 2019). Collaboration with Mike Wang (a co-author on the Dean paper) on the role of a stroke on sleep and circadian rhythms in rats allowed us to discover the surge of neurochemicals in the brain of dying rats, which ultimately lead to the discovery of the surge of gamma activities in the dying rats. Collaboration with George Mashour’s group was essential for the computational analysis of the brain’s electrical signals (Borjigin et al., 2013). Collaboration with Bob Kennedy’s laboratory allowed the high resolution (every 60-sec) measurement of neurotransmitters in dying rats (Li et al., 2015). All I can say in closing is that I have been extremely fortunate to be able to work with these fantastic scientists. Teamwork rocks!
People must remember that “science” is a methodology… it’s not a living organism that makes decisions. “Science” is not even an organization with people within it that makes decisions. “Science” does not have the inherent intelligence to allocate funding opportunities to important, world-changing endeavors. This is because “science” is merely a methodology just like cooking is the method of preparing a meal. Methodology is great and all but it is hardly what makes the world change… it is people that make the world change.
I must admit… I’ve grown to loathe the praising of the term “science” as it is such a misunderstood and misused the term. Scientists are the organisms that propel the knowledge base further so that other organisms (the general public) can reap the rewards. The praise and acknowledgment should go to scientists who work in important fields of research (no… not all fields of scientific research are important). I’m expecting this interview to generate 200,000 to 300,000 reads by the end of the year so for those of you that are interested in seeing endogenous DMT research propelled further… please realize that it won’t happen on its own. This entire field of research has been lagging tremendously since the 1970’s financially speaking. It is embarrassing that with an annual budget of over $39 billion dollars that the NIH still refuses to allocate any amount to endogenous DMT research. One would figure that if the NIH can spend $3.2 million studying the effects of alcohol in monkeys, it can surely spend the same amount on a field that the general public is extremely interested in such as endogenous DMT. In any case, it’s been estimated that there are nearly 2,500 billionaires in the world and likely over 50,000 hundred millionaires (people with $100,000,000 or more). There is enough private funding out there collecting dust that could change this endogenous DMT research industry in a very short time frame. If you’re reading this right now you are already aware of the importance of this topic. I ask you, readers, to assist this movement and reach out to whatever contacts you might have that have access to private funding that has the courage to financially back this very important field of studies. And somebody… anybody and everybody sends this interview to Joe Rogan as he discusses DMT quite often on his podcast and has the reach to help in this endeavor of fundraising. I’m tired of waiting for the NIH to get it right.
E-mail us at dmtquest@gmail.com if you have any comments or $50 million to plunk down into “DMT/Endohuasca” research. DMT Quest is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization dedicated to raising funds primarily for endogenous DMT/Endohuasca research as well as providing media material (documentaries, articles, podcasts) to present the results of this research in layman’s terms. You can learn more about the DMT Quest project by visiting dmtquest.org. We can help fund Jimo’s research as well as other vastly underfunded DMT researchers throughout the world.
About the Author
John A. Chavez is an independent researcher that is interested in the biological correlates of “supernatural” occurrences.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Daniel Shankin, Founder of Tam Integration. They cover topics including the Psilocybin Summit, child rearing, and integration practice.
3 Key Points:
The Psilocybin Summit is an online conference on the myth, magic and science of psychedelic mushrooms.
Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves. We need to learn to ask ourselves how we can connect deeply without becoming codependent.
Child rearing is an important topic. Nurturing a child with care and love is similar to the way we use psychedelics, meditation and yoga for healing.
Daniel came up in the psychedelic space in the 90’s
Recreational use turned into therapeutic use
He explains that as enlightenment called to him, it also called him to do shadow work
He said the transformational work began in his 20’s
He said there was no community so he used Ram Dass books to help with integration
Daniel says that psychedelics made him feel a deeper sense of life, more responsibility in his role on earth, feel more connected, etc.
His calling from these feelings led him to practice yoga, open a studio, provide trainings and more
“People gain so much by being heard” – Daniel
Child Rearing
Daniel mentions talking to his wife about conscious child raising
The conversation is about how to heal, not just talking about how to raise ourselves so we need less healing
“How do I raise a baby with as little trauma as possible?” – Daniel
Grof talks about the birth process in his books but kind of stops talking about trauma after the baby is out
The baby is designed to be held by the mother, and to put that child in a box with other children in boxes without parents, in a cold and sterile environment is a horrible idea
We project our own anti-social tendencies onto babies
A baby is meant to have constant connection and attention, and when we give a baby neglect, we wonder why they have addiction, depression, etc.
Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves
“How much deep connection can you offer and can you stand? How can I connect deeply without becoming codependent?” – Daniel
Attachment and Healing
As a yoga teacher for 20 years, he has found that there is a type of reparenting, that it is helping people to learn to help themselves
“Caring for people is a good thing to practice, one of our greatest problems is self-centeredness” – Daniel
Money isn’t the problem, “my money” is the problem
Samskara is a subtle tendency of the mind (like an eroded river)
The tendency to prove that we exist, or to prove that we are right, is something that the ego promotes
It takes energy to tame the ego and recondition ourselves
“Am I trying to prove that I exist in order to feel loved?” If our needs are met and we feel safe and loved, we don’t need to prove ourselves
We tend to look for the quickest and easiest way possible for the least amount of suffering, we look for the quick fix, but there is a lot of work to be done typically
It’s important to introduce a meditation practice into a psychedelic practice
Babies will cry into an endless void because they don’t understand time, just like in breathwork or psychedelic sessions, where time is distorted
Mindfulness of Enthusiasm
Enthusiastic consent is where you can press someone into giving you consent
Are they enthusiastic about engaging with you? If not, then don’t
The 920 Coalition is doing for psilocybin what 420 is doing for cannabis
There has never been a conference that is just psilocybin, and never fully online and live
It allows people to attend a conference from home
There is no venue to pay for, no tickets for travel, making it more accessible
The goal is to get as much traditional information as possible
Daniel says he’s not advocating psychedelics, he is advocating meditation for those who use psychedelics
Daniel hopes that with this conference, that he didn’t choose the speakers to just spit facts, hopefully this is heart and mind education that helps people feel like there is something possible in their lives that makes them feel greater, and that may or may not include psilocybin
Coaching vs. Therapy
Some people do not need therapy, they need coaching and accountability
We live in a world where our context does not always work to serve us
After a profound and intense awakening experience in 1998, Daniel dove deep into his yoga and meditation practice to stabilize his realization in his body and the world. He began teaching in 2002, and took over leadership of his neighborhood yoga studio in 2004. He’s directed several teacher training programs and taught on the faculty of even more. Daniel ‘Sitaram Das’ Shankin has dedicated his life to the cultivation of clarity, resilience, and heart. With the recognition that our true nature is vast and generous, wise, he strives to serve his clients in finding their own innate goodness and boundless strength. He currently offers leadership coaching with a heavy emphasis on mindfulness and somatics, and is based in Marin County. You can visit his website and learn more about coaching opportunities at sitaramdas.com.
In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Torsten Passie, Professor of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy with the Hanover Medical School in Germany. In the show, they cover a range of topics on Dr. Passie’s studies on microdosing.
Dr. Torsten Passie will be taking part in a special panel dedicated to microdosing at Breaking Convention 2019 (August 16-18, Greenwich, London), also featuring Amanda Fielding of the Beckley Foundation, Dr David Erritzoe of Imperial College, London, Dr Devin Turhune (Goldsmiths), and Dimitris Liokaftos, exploring myriad aspects of microdosing, including its effects, unknowns, and media representation presented by BC director Nikki Wyrd. Find out more about Breaking Convention: https://www.breakingconvention.co.uk/
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic research in the University setting died off after 2004, but is finally seeing an increase as the psychedelic revolution continues to grow.
There is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs. It’s becoming popular for therapists to use the substances used on their patients, more common to do the self-work before doing the work on others.
Even if microdosing does not produce any significant effects and it is all placebo, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society.
Dr. Passie has been researching psychedelics for 25 years
He specializes in the therapeutic use of psychedelic drugs
He has found difficulties in researching psychedelics during prohibition
Dr. Passie had a mystical experience before using psychedelics and then became interested in psychedelic use
He had grown up as an atheist, a materialist, and his experience required him to change his psychological state
His perception of reality was irritated and he had to see a therapist to integrate this experience
He said that this was frustrating because he was young and still in search for his identity
Through all of this, he decided to study medicine and become a psychedelic doctor
He became very conscious that he was on the right track
Research Studies
The researchers were the only ones doing studies on psychedelic states, there wasn’t much happening at the Universities
He did studies with cannabis, ketamine and even laughing gas
The research then was on how cannabinoids can help with psychosis
They were not successful with that, but it came to be that CBD was a neuroleptic and an anti-psychotic
Research pretty much stopped after 2004 due to new laws and the cost of the research
Dr. Passie does mention that in the past 10 years research has really taken off again and that we are really seeing the renaissance of psychedelic culture
In most of the literature of doctors doing self-experimenting, there is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs
Kyle mentions that MAPS has included into their training protocol to allow for therapists to have self-experiments with the substances that they are using on patients
Kyle also mentions he can’t imagine trying to hold space in breathwork without having had his own experiences with breathwork
Dr. Passie says that the history of self-experimentation with psychedelics has shown that the participants can become ‘gurus’ and lose their objectivity, he uses Timothy Leary as an example
But with only a few times of self-experimentation, maybe 2-4 times, he doesn’t see risks
HPPD
Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a disorder in which a person has flashbacks of visual hallucinations or distortions experienced during a previous hallucinogenic drug experience
Dr. Passie thinks there is a selection bias in what is published about HPPD
Its more common to have a study published that talks about an adverse effect of LSD than a benefit of it
Hundreds of thousands of studies were conducted in the 50’s, and no one claimed that this phenomenon came up
And now one person has conducted a study, claiming that this phenomena exists
Dr. Passie says that this pattern happens among people who are prone to anxiety and who are dissociative
He says that most subjects that claim to experience HPPD, have experienced visuals even before ever taking LSD
Microdosing
It has been known to not have any effects from 15-20 micrograms of LSD
20-50 micrograms of LSD is considered mini-dosing, where you can feel some type of effects from it, but not as much as the full dose
Dr. Passie says it is strange for people to claim to have increased cognition during microdosing based on conventional data that shows that LSD produces poor cognitive function
He thinks that whatever the effects are of LSD at a high dose, that the effects at a low dose are the same, just less, not completely different effects
He believes that there is some placebo effect with microdosing
In terms of the microdosing trend, Dr. Passie is critical about the productivity factor, he does believe in the creativity factor though
The flow state may also be increased with microdosing
He claims that in his own experience with microdosing, he doesn’t experience the flow state, in fact he experiences a feeling of agitation
Combinations
In a study, when patients took a microdose first, and then a little while later, they took a different full psychedelic dose, the microdose impacted the experience of the full dose
It lessened the effects of the full dose psychedelic
Psychedelics and Sleep
Dr. Passie mentions a study where patients were given LSD, both high and low doses, during sleep
What was found was that LSD impacts REM sleep patterns
The dreams were not altered
The REM phases got longer during the beginning of sleep, and then much shorter near the end of sleep
It shows that the impact of sleeping patterns brings someone to feel much different the next day
The Microdosing Trend
Microdosing has much to be explored yet
But even if microdosing does not produce effects, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society
“Microdosing might be a new assimilation process of psychedelics into our culture” – Torsten
Instead of the 60’s where we are taking huge doses, we are taking tiny doses as a slow approach to assimilate psychedelics back into society
Torsten is a professor of psychiatry and psychotherapy affiliated with Hannover Medical School, and led the Laboratory for Consciousness and Neurocognition. He has conducted clinical research on psychoactive substances and has written several books including The Pharmacology of LSD (2010) and Healing with Entactogens (2012). Between 2012 and 2015 he was visiting professor at Harvard Medical School.
Download In this episode, Kyle interviews David Krantz, Certified Epigenetic Coach, and an expert in nutritional genomics. In the show, they talk about the effects of substances via the implications on an individual’s genetics.
3 Key Points:
Epigenetic testing is a bio-hack for boosting cognitive function and harnessing our creativity and ultimate human potential.
There has been a lot of research done on genetics and the effects of THC. The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally, which varies from person to person.
Each person should be seen on an individual level, and the more we know about our unique genetics, the more we can understand about our interactions with different substances.
David works with clients on creating optimal epigenetic expression
He uses people’s genetics as a guide to look at recommendations for diet, herbs, supplements, etc.
He began looking at cannabis for recommendations and found curiosity in psychedelics too
Epigenetics studies the effects of the modification of genetics
It looks at chemical groups attached to the DNA itself and what happens to them over time
Cannabis and Genetics
The most robust area of research on genetics is THC
David said he has seen some research on Psilocybin and just very recently that liver enzymes are responsible for LSD interactions
It looks at the way people are metabolizing these substances
When you ingest something or smoke it, it has a higher impact on the body, edibles are a great example
Kyle brings up the curiosity of edibles impact being either physiological or biological
Genetics show the body’s cannabinoid levels
The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally
There are two enzymes that break down cannabinoids in the body, Anandamide and 2AG
There is a higher likelihood to use cannabis in a person with lower levels of endocannabinoids
This makes some people high-functioning stoners, and others non-functioning stoners
The substance is neutral, it’s all about the body and how it reacts to it
When the liver breaks down an edible, it makes THC more potent
There is speculation that the slow metabolizers have a better chance of passing a drug test because they don’t have a chance to convert 110HTHC to the COOHTHC
Food and Substance Effects
Kyle mentions someone who was drinking grapefruit juice everyday for 3 weeks, and it potentiated the effects of Ketamine
In order to psilocybin to be converted to psilocin, you need a chemical in your body called alkaline phosphatase
Vitamin C deficiency and Vitamin B-6 deficiency all both correlated with alkaline phosphatase deficiency
David brings up his experience going keto, it worked really great for him, his energy levels increased, he lost weight, but his wife had a horrible time with keto
Then he looked to genetics and it made perfect sense to him as to why it worked for him and why it failed for her
Metabolism, biochemistry, genetics, and so many other factors impact a person’s reaction to substances
David also mentions that with companies like 23 and me, they get their money from selling people’s genetic information
He says Apeiron is focused on what you can actually do with the information, not just simply providing the results
David says its super valuable for people to know these things about themselves, how to mitigate stress, how the metabolism works, knowing what to eat, knowing vitamin deficiencies, etc.
Psychedelics in the Future of Epigenetics
David thinks were going to see that the epigenetics of psychedelics are going to show the ability to overcome trauma
When we look at people at an individual level, we all have our own idiosyncrasies and variations
“Because there is no such thing as an average human, let’s stop treating people like average humans and start treating them like they are individual people. Let’s stop leaving out the outliers.” – David
Taking an individualized approach to the psychedelic space is highly beneficial
David Krantz is a certified Epigenetic Coach who specializes in boosting cognitive function and helping clients harness their creative and personal power. As a lifelong musician, David sees the various systems of the body as parts of a complex symphony. And, as a coach, he excels at fine-tuning those parts to create resonant harmonious health. David also serves as Director of Psychoacoustics at Apeiron Center in Asheville, NC where he develops sound-based tools for better mood, energy, and focus. Additionally, he’s an expert in the pharmacogenetics of the endocannabinoid system and has developed a proprietary genetic test for looking at individual response to cannabinoids. A biohacker by training and artist by nature, David enjoys working with others who have a deep passion for enjoying life.
In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Sam Gandy. During the show, they cover topics including the implications psychedelics have for human well-being and the biosphere at large at a time of growing disconnection.
3 Key Points:
There have been a lot of recent threats to our planet and its survival if we continue on our current path of unsustainability. Feeling connected to nature increases the human desire to take care of and heal nature.
There has been an inverse correlation with our connectedness to nature and our connection with technology. Getting out in nature, as well as using psychedelics in nature, both help increase our connectedness to nature.
There has been a rise in cutting edge research that reveals the capacity of psychedelic substances to enhance human-nature connection, which Sam shares snippets of throughout the episode.
Sam has a PhD in Ecological Science from the University of Aberdeen and a Masters in Entomology from Imperial College London
He has a lifelong interest in nature and wildlife and has conducted research in areas all over the world
He is a Scientific Assistant to the Director at the Beckley Foundation
He is a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at the Imperial College of London
Sam’s interest in psychedelics began in London when it was legal to buy mushrooms
He was ‘anti-drug’ until he discovered psychedelics and began to explore consciousness and a love for nature
His background in Ecology (the science of interconnection) has combined with the Psychedelic field
Sam is interested in the capacity of psychedelics to increase human-nature connection and relatedness
Saving Earth
There is a huge threat that our planet won’t survive past this century if we continue on our path of destruction
Remedying our nature disconnect is something really important if we want to survive
This nature disconnection is inversely proportional from our technological connection
We cant live without nature
We have to make room for all the other life going on, not just the life that directly serves humans, like crops and livestock
There is an increasing awareness of the need for nature connection
Sam mentions about humanity’s screen addiction, it raises our cortisol levels and there are many consequences such as psychological and physiological effects
“Contentment is the enemy of invention”
Psychedelics and the internet are growing alongside each other
Timothy Leary would say the internet is the psychedelics of the future in terms of connection
The internet is playing a pivotal role in access to information in this psychedelic renaissance
“Technology is not good or bad, it’s about how its used, the intent behind it” – Sam
Nature Disconnect
Sam thinks that the first step that took us away from nature is when we started farming, we became less hunter-gatherer minded and stepped away from the wild environment
At that point we started living in large groups (creating cities)
Then there was the division of labor and urbanization
Cities and technology are the main reasons for our disconnect with nature
“Long term sustainability would be one of the chief governing principles of how things are ran” – Sam
Psychedelics and Nature
There is something radical about psychedelics, they can convert the skeptics into appreciating nature
The ego dissolution character of psychedelics are a key component in feeling connected to nature
The default mode network (where the ego resides) becomes relaxed and dissolved, and when that happens there is a breakdown of perceived boundaries between self and others/nature
That dissolution of boundaries is a key component in the psychedelic experience
“When you feel part of it, it changes fundamentally how you relate to it” – Sam
One’s knowledge of nature is a very weak predictor of one’s concern for nature
There isn’t research of the use of psychedelics in natural settings yet, Sam hopes that as we research psychedelics more (in clinical settings) the research can evolve into studying their use in nature
With psilocybin, most people have claimed to have a long-term fleeting change in their connectedness to nature, that the feeling of connection doesn’t go away after the trip is over, it lasts for weeks, months, even the rest of their life
Rigid Egos and Nature Disconnection
Psilocybin decreases blood flow to the default mode network
“When we are destroying our own homes (our bodies and nature) are we falling out of love with our self?” – Kyle
When we dissolve the ego, we increase connection, to ourselves, to others and to nature
Future in Psychedelics
We are going to see the rise of Psychedelic Therapy
We are going to see Psychedelic groups and communities on the rise
From those groups, we will see projects and initiatives develop, which could bring decriminalization, integration circles, etc.
Sam believes the rise of depression and anxiety are a cause of our disconnection to nature, and he believes there is a lot of personal healing to be had if we get back into nature and actually play a role in healing nature too
Instead of trying to save the world just for our children and our children’s children, we need to look at this planet as if we were to reincarnate and come back to this planet, so we should want to look after this physical plane to make it better for future installments of ourselves
Get Connected with Nature
The direct, physical sensory experience with nature alone is well known to increase our connectedness with it
Sam suggest listeners to get out in nature and do anything! Boating, gardening, bee keeping, a walk in the woods, whatever
Sam really likes the art of Japanese Forest Bathing, which is about mindfulness and taking in nature, maybe combining it with breathwork exercises, etc.
The more mindful you feel, the more connected to nature you are, and vice versa
Final Thoughts
Nature connection is just a single facet of the psychedelic experience, and Sam hopes for more research on this facet in the future
We have a decent amount of research on psychedelics effect on people with depression, PTSD, etc, but Sam hints toward some future research on the effects of psychedelics on the healthy-normal population
Make time for nature in whatever way works for you
2 hours of nature time a week are profoundly beneficial for health
Dr. Sam Gandy works on the cutting edge of psychedelic research, as Scientific Assistant to the Director of the Beckley Foundation, and as a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at Imperial College London. Sam has a lifelong love of nature and wildlife, and a PhD in ecological science from the University of Aberdeen. He has been fortunate enough to conduct field research in various parts of the world including the UK, Kefalonia, Almeria, Texas, the Peruvian Amazon, Vietnam and Ethiopia. Outside his work in the psychedelic field he has written papers, book chapters, articles and spoken at conferences and festivals on psychedelics and he is fascinated by their potential to benefit human lives.
In this episode, Joe interviews Raquel Bennett, Psy.D. at Kriya Institute. In the show, they cover topics surrounding the properties and paradigms of therapeutic Ketamine use.
3 Key Points:
The Kriya Institute is devoted to understanding the therapeutic properties of Ketamine. Raquel Bennett specializes in using Ketamine therapy for patients with severe treatment resistant disorders.
There are three questions that should be used when determining if someone is fit for Ketamine therapy. Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it ethical?
There are many different paradigms for Ketamine Therapy, but determining the best method for each individual patient is the goal.
The Kriya Institute deals with how to work with Ketamine specifically in Psychiatry and Psychotherapy
Kriya provides clinical services to patients, training for other clinicians, and Kriya conference
The conference is a big collaborative meeting
Raquel is trying to create a patient assistance fund to make services more available to people
Ketamine
Ketamine isn’t addictive physically
It is possible to become psychologically addicted to Ketamine
Raquel thinks its a property of the person not of the object
It’s possible to become addicted to anything, shopping, sex, etc.
About Raquel
She first encountered Ketamine in 2002 when she was suffering from severe depression
She was seeing a therapist that took her to a psychedelic shaman where she took Ketamine
From the way she felt after taking Ketamine, she wanted to know if it was replicable for other people
She is interested in people with treatment resistant mood disorders, such as severe depression, unusual bipolar disorder and people living with active suicidal ideation
She remembers her teachers (who gave her Ketamine) saying they don’t use it often, and don’t know if it will work
They were not seeking an antidepressant effect, they were helping her to connect to the cosmos and the universe, to find out why she was having such severe depression
The fact that it acted as a rapid-acting antidepressant was a surprise to them, and that’s what triggered her curiosity with it
“Most of what I know of being a Ketamine provider, I learned from being a patient” – Raquel
Ketamine and Patents
Johnson and Johnson just came out with a filtered Ketamine product that they patented
$850 for 84mg of filtered Ketamine
$1.59 for 100mg of generic Ketamine
They are only providing it as a nasal spray
Companies tried to make a new molecule, but they couldn’t
Instead, they modified it, and filtered it, and then patented it (Esketamine)
Ketamine Treatment Paradigms
There is a lot of disagreement on the route, the dose, the setting importance, etc
This was the reason she created the Kriya conference, to share ideas, to find the best possible methods
One way is to give it as a low dose infusion out of the anesthesiology model (0.5mg of Ketamine per kg of bodyweight in an infusion center)
They aim to get enough ketamine in the patient’s body without the psychedelic effects
They take the normal dose, divide it by 6, and space it out to avoid the psychedelic nature
The patient is being forced into a passive role, they aren’t being called to heal themselves, they are just showing up for the medicine
Raquel says that’s not all that there is to it, the medicine is only half of it
Another paradigm for using Ketamine is facilitated Ketamine Psychotherapy
In this way, the Ketamine is used as a lubricant for talk therapy
We are using Ketamine to help people to talk about material that is too painful or too shameful to get to otherwise” – Raquel
In this paradigm, the emphasis is on the therapy, not the Ketamine, the Ketamine is a lubricant and a tool
In this way, the patient and the therapist are both participating 50%, the patient is not passive
She says the psychedelic effects are to be avoided, or else the patient becomes too far out
The third paradigm would be to induce mystical experience on purpose
As a provider, it is believed that the visions are meaningful
Only about 1 in 6 patients are actually a good candidate for psychedelic dosing
The patient is willing to offer their body up as a vessel, and the messages they receive are from God
The provider’s role is to make sure the journey is safe, and then help the patients to help construct meaning from what they saw, create actionable steps on how to change their lives
Raquel says that all of these paradigms are helpful, different methods work for different patients
That’s her job as a Ketamine Specialist, to determine which method is best for patients
“This is where the direction of the field needs to go, being aware of the spectrum of the services available, and then matching the treatment to the patient. Individualized treatment.” – Raquel
Proper Use
Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it ethical?
Is it appropriate to give Ketamine Treatment to someone without a profound impairment or disorder?
The literature supports the use of Ketamine for the following psychiatric or psychological disorders; major severe refractory depression, bipolar depression, physical pain with depression, recurrent suicidality and obsessive compulsive disorder
Do the potential benefits verify the potential risks?
Raquel doesn’t believe that making this experience available to everyone is the right way, her goal is to demonstrate that Ketamine is safe and useful for refractory problems
Group Administration
They can work with 6 clients at a time
It includes carefully selected individuals that all fit into the group
This provides a much lower cost for patients
Ketamine Types
There are 3 Types of Ketamine
The molecules themselves are not flat, they are 3 dimensional and fold in space
Some molecules are ‘right handed’ and others are ‘left handed’
Right handed molecules are Arketamine and left handed are Esketamine
Generic Ketamine is an even amount of Arketamine and Esketamine molecules
What Johnson and Johnson did with Esketamine was patenting the filtration process of removing Arketamine from the Esketamine molecules
Kriya Institute Site
Kriya Conference in November
A list of providers working with therapeutic Ketamine
Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.
Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Ben Eddy, a Black Belt from Eddy Bravo’s 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. In this episode, they cover a range of topics on Jiu Jitsu, Psychedelics and flow state.
3 Key Points:
Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything. Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ type of game, and it allowed him to tap into a flow state.
Psychedelics have the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns, and when combined with a sport like Jiu Jitsu, you’re able to achieve a type of embodiment you wouldn’t have before.
We do not need to rush into psychedelics at a young age. It is important to experience life for what it is first, and to feel that fully to have a comparison to after diving into the psychedelic realm.
Ben got into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu when looking for a way to get in shape
He was in San Francisco in the tech scene
He was into wrestling in his past and competition and he found that Jiu Jitsu was similar
His main instructor, Eddie Bravo, was training for a match
He wanted to be around the energy of this event
He moved down to southern California and that is where his psychedelic use began
Ben knew that when he was going to do psychedelics, there was going to be a before and after, that there were going to be doors that were going to be opened
He says he took the time to really understand the sober life before psychedelics, in order to know the difference
Ben describes it as a cool opportunity to wait to use psychedelics, he had the choice to wait and experience life and figure out what life is before psychedelics
Joe says for the younger listeners “meditate on that”, figure out life first before diving into psychedelics
Strategy vs Flow
Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything
Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ game, where there is more of a ‘flow state’
He was running into people that could just ‘find answers in the moment’, there was no plan or no strategy, it was a natural flow
Psychedelics and Training
Training with an active dose was hard to get to at the start
Ben trains now with active doses
It has the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns
Ben’s active dose is 2 grams of mushrooms during a practice
Ben does mention that all people are different and his active dose is different than anyone else’s
Jiu Jitsu makes you bring everything that you have up to the forefront in that moment
Feeling is a way of knowing, especially in these flow states
He says that weed is commonly used in Jiu Jitsu, but he hasn’t seen a whole lot of Psychedelic use yet
Ben says that weed helps you drop into the one instrument that you’re trying to play, get into that flow state
Jiu Jitsu is a sport of form, technique, and dance, it’s not about strength
Origins
Jiu Jitsu came from Japan and their Judo
Then it came to Brazil and mixed with the beach vibes and turned into Jiu Jitsu
Then it came to the west and our beaches and developed into what it is today
Kyle mentions the idea of using Paul Stamets ‘microdosing’, psilocybin, lions mane and niacin
In that state we are creating new neurogenesis and neural pathways and being in that state may make us learn differently
Kyle says its an interesting application for performance and new ways of learning
Ben says the goal is to get to a certain level of embodiment, at every point you’re trying to be present in the here and now
Music
After Jiu Jitsu, music took on a whole new color, feel and wave for Ben than it did before
He thought music was a distraction
Once he started to play with flow more, he began to open up to music to live in it
Jiu Jitsu and the flow state really start with the breath
Its like breathing in and accepting life, and the exhale is where it all lets go
Ben Eddy is a Blackbelt at 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. Starting off in the tech scene in San Fransisco, Ben relocated to southern California, where he began his journey into Jiu Jitsu, psychedelics and tapping into the flow state. He currently travels and competes.
With the resurgence of psychedelics and the important research into the many therapeutic benefits – from Ketamine for treatment-resistant depression, to MDMA for PTSD, and Ibogaine for addiction recovery, and much more, the myriad lineages of traditional ceremonial and healing ways, as well as the flourishing of radical creativity with entheogenic use, the festival communities, we are all in a time of transformation and potential change for the healing and upliftment of each other and our planet.
These times, and working in these sacred and subtle, sensitive realms require ethics that far surpasses the standards that dictate dominant paradigm interactions. Holding space in a sacred way means attunement, humility, honoring, and most of all, putting aside what you think you know about what’s happening, in service to the one in spontaneous or entheogenically-induced Spiritual Emergence (SE).
The states of heightened sensitivity, openness to multidimensional realms, and to others’ energies requires extra responsibility – the ability to be responsive – on the part of the one who was holding space, witnessing, and guiding. The ones who are in the role of holding vigil must be as attuned as the survivors of trauma and spiritual emergency themselves have had to be.
Those of us who have lived experience of both spontaneous and entheogenically-induced non or extra-ordinary states may be activated and opened into psychic gifts – beholden to the underlying layers of realities and agendas – and when we share our visions and insights, the trauma of both being gaslit and pathologized are damaging in compounding denial of our truth!
In this time of the great revealing, what is hidden is coming to the surface to be seen, held, metabolized, transmuted, and the ethical requirement is that we all make contact with radical openness, radical compassion, and radical humility, contacting the reality that each of us is a bearer of truth, of wisdom, and thus we all deserve to be recognized as embodied divinity and treated with respect and care!
I was traumatized in two different medicine communities, due to lack of attunement, gaslighting, and negligence on behalf of the facilitators, guides, and space-holders. My spiritual emergency and subsequent hospitalizations are directly related to the openings of these intense and deep transformational processes- access to my deepest grief and fear, which had they been held properly, ethically, and responsibly, could have been some of the most healing and corrective experiences of my life, but instead they were some of the most re-traumatizing and isolating.
These spaces, ceremonies, ways are meant to induce opening, initiation, recalibration, and transmutation. When held out of alignment, they become potentially violating, dangerous, and re-wounding, especially for those who have had a history of trauma. As the research shows, entheogenic therapies are potentially very effective in recovery and healing in the right conditions.
What are ethically-held entheogenic containers, therapies, and ceremonies? I can tell you it is NOT forced touch, pushing farther, harder, deeper, or more. It IS attunement, respect, consent, and letting go of agendas. Allowing the Sacred Process to unfold, being guided by Spirit, and the Inner Healer. That is to say, the Inner Healer of the client, and following the needs, and being responsive and responsible to the client. And the necessity for each and every psychedelic therapist and guide to be trained in Spiritual Emergence Support and integration, resources, and acknowledging that the opening into SE through entheogenic use as well as spontaneously, is a deeply transformative process that deserves the utmost care, holding, and respect, as it is inherently an Awakening process, and why we are here in this Time-
To heal together, to return to Wholeness, and to support the activation of our gifts and capacities to be of service to one another and the Planet.
(I delivered this transmission at Will Hall’s Event on 5/4/19 at Oakland Omni Commons)
Featured Image: “Etheric Motherboard of the New Paradigm” by David Wyatt
About the Author
MichelleAnne Hobart, MA, SEC, AMFT is a teacher, writer, energy worker, and Associate Marriage and Family Therapist at Holos Institute. She trained as a Spiritual Emergence Coach with Emma Bragdon and collaborates with the Gnosis Retreat Center project. Her love for the Earth and education was exemplified in her past as a high school Biology and Health teacher working in the Baltimore parochial school system after receiving her BS in Biology from University of Maryland Baltimore County. Deeply longing to immerse herself in the subtle realms, she was drawn to the Bay Area to continue her studies. With her MA in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness from California Institute of Integral Studies, she continued her own personal journey of healing, and then sharing that path with others through her wellness center and intuitive collective. She has been in states of Spiritual Emergence throughout her life to varying degrees, and entered a state of Spiritual Emergency in 2013.. She completed and released her first book, Becoming Sacred Space in 2016. Then, in 2018, Michelle graduated from the Integral Counseling Psychology program at CIIS, and is currently finishing her second book, about Spiritual Emergence.
In this episode, Kyle hosts a conversation with Veronika Gold from the Polaris Insight Center, a center that offers Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy. They compare and contrast Ketamine Psychotherapy methods and Ketamine Infusion.
3 Key Points:
The most studied way of using Ketamine has been infusion, mainly used for treatment resistant depression and PTSD. Veronika used lozenges and intramuscular Ketamine therapy working for Polaris.
When people are healed from depression, there is a lot of anxiety and activation that happens. Infusion clinics don’t offer the therapeutic help that comes with Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy.
The dissociation that happens with Ketamine is a different dissociation that happens with trauma. With trauma, dissociation happens when the nervous system can’t handle the stress in someone’s life, with Ketamine, it allows people who feel dissociated from their trauma, to feel again.
She is involved in the clinical trials for the treatment of PTSD, sponsored by MAPS in San Francisco
Veronika is originally from Czech Republic
She studied at CIIS
She grew up in the Czech Republic in a communist time so she dealt with a lot of trauma
She met Stan Grof at 16 at a Transpersonal conference
She was fascinated with his work and Transpersonal Breathwork became a part of her healing
It lead her to study psychology and become a psychotherapist and study non-ordinary states
Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy
Ketamine therapy has been studied from the late 60’s until today
The most studied way of using Ketamine has been infusion, mainly used for treatment resistant depression and PTSD
In Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy, the therapy is as important as the medicine
There is a biochemical effect of Ketamine
When people are healed from depression, there is a lot of anxiety and activation that happens
Infusion clinics don’t offer the therapeutic help that comes with Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy
Benefits of Ketamine Psychotherapy
The treatment method used at Polaris includes a comfortable room, eye shades, music tailored to the therapy, and an ongoing therapist
They use non-ordinary states of consciousness as a part of the transformation
They use lozenges and IM (Intramuscular)
Only 30% of the ketamine from the lozenges are effective
The lozenges allow for a slow onset of the medicine
With IM, a higher dose can be used because it’s less taxing on the body and more effective
The property of Ketamine is dissociation
Veronika says she prompts people to explain where they are, to share about what comes up for them
“Sometimes there are memories that come up that are connected to their struggle. Sometimes they do full trauma processing. There are times where they go inside and then come out.” – Veronika
Ketamine vs. Classic Psychedelics
They used Ketamine as a means to do the work legally
For the work that is being done underground, the therapists are putting themselves at risk for legality, and it does impact set and setting
But even if other substances were legal, Veronika thinks Ketamine will still be used for certain issues
A moderate to high dose can allow people to have a near death experience or ‘review of their life’
The dissociation that happens with Ketamine is a different dissociation that happens with trauma
With trauma, dissociation happens when the nervous system can’t handle the stress
Opposingly, with Ketamine, it allows people who feel dissociated, to feel again
Veronika mentions a study that says the higher the effects of dissociation from a Ketamine session, the higher the antidepressant effects are.
She has work in somatic studies and organic intelligence
Breathwork
Veronika’s experience with Breathwork helps her understand her patients
The bodily experience that happens in Breathwork also helps her understand the body movement/energetic blockages, etc that happen in Ketamine therapy
The last 30-90 minutes is where the integration starts
Sessions
They do mainly one-on-one session but have done a few pair therapy sessions
Veronika says its easier to do one-on-one because the sessions are short and there is a lot of internal work
The Future of Ketamine
Veronika is excited about people’s curiosity with Ketamine therapy and the effectivity of it
Ketamine is a new and emerging field and we are figuring out who it is useful for and who it is not
Veronika says that non-ordinary states are all beneficial for healing, and not having to use Ketamine (using Breathwork) is still beneficial
“A big part of the healing is having a positive experience and connecting with places that feel good, having positive visions. Its supportive for our nervous system and our ability to heal.” – Veronika
“When we allow the inner healing intelligence to come through, it will take us to where we need to go.” – Veronika
Patients don’t always need to just feel the dark stuff and the trauma, sometimes sitting with the good feelings and remembering what good feels like is a part of the healing too
Kyle and Veronika were both on separate episodes of the Consciousness Podcast with Stuart Preston
Veronika has expertise in the treatment of trauma. Her approach is integrative and informed by Somatic Therapies, contemplative practices, and mindfulness. She also has an interest in educating others about the healing and transformational potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness.
In this episode, Joe talks with Matthew Remski, yoga teacher, consultant and author. In the show they talk about high demand group life and their cultic mechanisms, and the after effects of living in a high demand group setting.
3 Key Points:
Matthew Remski shares his experience of spending most of his 20’s in cults, and his healing journey afterward.
Cults aren’t defined by their content (political, religious, psychedelic), they are defined by their element of control. Another term for a ‘cult’ is a high demand group.
High demand groups can be very appealing from the outside, no one signs up for the rape, torture, or manipulative experiences that happen inside of a cult. And the after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, such as PTSD, inability to form romantic relationships, etc.
Yoga was a safe space of retreat and recuperation after being in cults
He was in a cult for 3 years led by Michael Roach at the Asian Classics Institute
He was in Endeavor Academy for 6 years in Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin
These experiences gave him group dynamic perspective
Yoga gave him somatic autonomy, and allowed him to feel himself again after the cultic nature of the groups
He spent age 22-29 in these groups where we would have built some sort of career, and he didn’t
He became a yoga teacher and opened his own yoga studio as a part of his healing
Cults
People end up doing harm to themselves, or do things that they didn’t sign up for
An organization misrepresents itself, and presents itself as a safe haven for people who may be vulnerable for any reason
High Demand Organization, along with other synonyms, are other words for ‘cult’
‘Self Sealed’ implies that everything that happens within the group is to have the individual think it’s for the ‘good’, a ‘bounded choice’ environment (saying that sexual advances or torture are a part of the development toward enlightenment, for example)
The high demand group rewires a person’s attachment patterns to make them ‘unattached’
The content of the cult doesn’t matter (religious, psychedelic, political, etc), it’s the element of control that is the same amongst true cults
There can be political groups that aren’t cults, but the element of control is what defines it as a cult
Octavio Rettig and Gerry Sandoval
They are perhaps responsible for multiple deaths (maybe not directly but through negligence)
They use 5-MEO-DMT with abuse and malpractice
Cult Impact
The impact from a cult can be cognitive, labor related, relationship/family oriented, etc.
Matthew says the estrangement from his family has taken over a decade to repair
The relationships he had prior, has been unable to restored
His identity was changed for him through social coercion
“The cult takes its best possible part of you for its own agenda” – Matthew
The after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, they can have PTSD, they may not be able to form romantic bonds, they may become estranged from their family, etc.
Recent estimates in the US alone say that there are 8,000 high demand groups
These dynamics can be found in many organizations
Wild Wild Country – When a controversial cult leader builds a Utopian city in the Oregon desert, conflict with the locals escalates into a national scandal
Psychotherapy Cult
Psychotherapy cults look like a Buddhist or yoga cult but with different group practice techniques
They will depend upon group psychotherapy that break down and humiliate members and create fear that looks like love and acceptance
It includes members revealing intense secrets so they become vulnerable
Practice And All Is Coming: Abuse, Cult Dynamics, And Healing In Yoga And Beyond
Matthew’s book is applicable in many different community constellations
His intention is to help foster critical thinking and community health
Joe says that anyone in a group dynamic or especially those leading groups (such as an ayahuasca circle) need to read this book
Matthew has been practicing meditation and yoga since 1996, sitting and moving with teachers from the Tibetan Buddhist, Kripalu, Ashtanga, and Iyengar streams. Along the way he has trained as a yoga therapist and an Ayurvedic consultant, and maintained a private practice in Toronto from 2007 to 2015. From 2008 through 2012, he co-directed Yoga Festival Toronto and Yoga Community Toronto, non-profit activist organizations dedicated to promoting open dialogue and accessibility. During that same period, he studied jyotiśhāstra in a small oral-culture setting at the Vidya Institute in Toronto. Matthew currently facilitates programming for yoga trainings internationally, focusing on yoga philosophy, meditation, Ayurveda, and the social psychology of practice. In all subject areas, he encourages students to explore how yoga practice can resist the psychic and material dominance of neoliberalism, and the quickening pace of environmental destruction.
This interview was transcribed from our Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care & Integration master class with Elizabeth Gibson of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork. In this interview, Elizabeth shares her insights of integrating exceptional experiences from facilitating and working with Holotropic Breathwork for over 25 years. Elizabeth has a great wealth of knowledge about the integration process and we are honored to present her insights.
Introduction
Kyle Buller: Welcome to the Psychedelics Today exclusive interview for the Self Care and Integration course. Today we are here with Elizabeth Gibson of DreamShadow Transpersonal Breathwork to talk about integration and breathwork. Thank you for joining us today, Elizabeth. It’s great to have you on.
Elizabeth Gibson: Thanks for having me, I’m happy to be here.
Kyle: So, let’s dig in, what does integration mean to you?
Elizabeth: Well, it’s a big topic and a really important topic to me. To me, integration is one of the most important aspects of work with extraordinary experiences. How do you take material that’s come up for you and bring it into your everyday life? That’s where the real benefit of this work comes from. I think it’s a topic that’s often overlooked.
So, how do people go back out into the world and realize the benefits of the intense inner work that they’ve done? That’s what it’s about to me. It’s about how people figure out how to do that and supporting them in that process.
Kyle: To backtrack a little bit, you have been facilitating breathwork for almost 20 years at this point? [25 years as of 2019].
And then you also were part of some MDMA therapy back in the 80s, right? When it was legal? So, you’ve been in this work for a while — working with people with non-ordinary states and doing integration work.
Elizabeth: Trying to, yeah.
Joe: What are some of the most important thing you see people maybe not do adequately to try to integrate?
Elizabeth: Well, I think the basic principle that we always remind people of when they are leaving a workshop or leaving a session that has involved an intense experience of any kind is the ongoing nature of the process. So, a lot of people who are, especially people who are new to this work, tend to think it’s all about the session.
The session, of course, is extremely important, but the process continues after the session is over. The intense emotions or material that has begun to come up during the session, if it’s a very organic process, can continue in the days and weeks after the session has actually taken place.
So, it’s really important to remind people that it’s important to give themselves space and to allow that process to continue and to really respect what’s going on inside and not try to jump right back into everyday life and the demands of work. given that, for many people, that’s a very difficult thing. People have jobs and families and relationships that they’re going back to.
It is important to remind them to remember the ongoing nature of the process and that it’s not all about your hours in the session. I think all of us who have done this work ourselves personally, I mean, I remember after when I did MDMA-assisted psychotherapy back in the ’80s, I can remember for days afterwards just kind of yearning to get back in the space I had been in.
It seemed like such a sweet experience and my life outside of the session seemed pale by experiences. It’s almost if I was trying to get back to where I had been in the session instead of understanding that I needed to pay attention to what was happening to myself right now in the moment and reconnect with myself in that way.
I think that’s really what integration is about — learning to be more present and authentic with ourselves in the moment. No matter what we are doing, whether we’re in an intense session or you know, even something as mundane as washing the dishes.
Kyle: Yeah, you make some really great points. Joe and I put that quote, “chop wood, carry water” in our presentation in this course. But also, it seems like people want to jump back into sessions again, like I think we brought up the fact that people may want to just go back and do ayahuasca ceremonies over and over again.
Maybe not because of the purging aspect, but just continue taking drugs to stay in that state (of consciousness). Or go back and do a bunch of breathwork sessions to move through some stuff. I think it is important to have that downtime and really be able to embody the experience and really understand what that means.
Elizabeth: I agree, Kyle. I think a lot of the changes that come about as a result of doing this work are subtle changes. The traumatic changes are fairly obvious and maybe don’t need as much attention in the sense that with the subtle changes they can be easily overlooked. The long-term changes that take place over time, those are the ones that I think you really want to honor and respect and give space to allow that to happen in yourself.
Developing A Daily Practice
Kyle: Do you have any tips or advice to how to stay in the moment after a session for the next week or a couple months to really embody what just happened?
Elizabeth: Yeah, well that’s the challenge. I think that it really is a very individual thing. There are specific techniques that can be used. I was looking this morning, and Stan Grof spoke in his book, Holotropic Breathwork, He has a couple of entries for integration. He talks about specific kinds of techniques that can be helpful for people after they do this kind of work. And you know, it’s the kinds of techniques that allow you to tap into yourself, be it whatever kind of form meditation works for you.
Some people like sitting meditation, some people like more active kinds of meditation like tai chi. Some people can’t really connect with meditation at all and there can be other kinds of activities like I remembered when I read Stan’s passage that he used to recommend for people who had intense kinds of physical experiences, that aerobic exercise, like swimming, running, for people who might be inclined in that way, who are more physically active, just as a way of connecting with the kind of energy and feelings that are operating at the deeper levels.
So, for me, I always have found it helpful to journal about my experiences in the days afterward. Not right after an experience because I’m not that verbal yet, which is why initially after a breathwork session, for instance, we offer drawing materials so people can just work with shapes and colors and begin to work with their experiences symbolically on that level before even putting words to them.
But then maybe a day or two later, I always find it really helpful to write about my experience. I notice if I keep up the process journaling in the days moving forward from there, I’m apt to stay more connected with the feelings of the experience.
But again, it’s whatever works for an individual person to create space for themselves to just sink into themselves. Basically, that means some kind of ongoing form of practice, daily practice, whatever works. And that’s a very personal and individual kind of thing.
And we’ve all, I know, tried in our lives to stick to some kind of practice. We’ve tried lots of things. What I’ve learned over the years is for me, I have to make my practice manageable. I can’t try and make it too big. So, I’ve learned for me, if I do something every morning for about half an hour, that’s probably the most realistic expectation I can have for myself.
So, I like to do yoga and tai chi, and I like to journal. Some combination or at least one of those, ideally in the morning. But then during the day, I mean, think what you like to do to nurture and support yourself. Get outside, go for a walk, connect with nature, to work it into your daily life as much as you can so it’s not like a separate kind of thing that becomes one more thing to do every day that you may not get to.
Kyle: Right. And then if you start acting that way, then you start beating yourself up that you’re not practicing, so yeah. I know that happens to me. I’m like, “Ah, I should really meditate more.” Then I think to myself, “Well, why am I beating myself up over it?”
Elizabeth: Yeah, yeah.
But do you find that? I mean, I do. I know that if I do something first thing in the morning, then if I wait ’til the end of the day, it’s less likely that it’s going to happen, so-
Kyle: Absolutely.
Elizabeth: My tai chi teacher used to say, “Just do it before you think too much about it. Get up and do it.”
The Importance of Community and Group Process
Joe: Can you think of any things not to do that might impact integration in a negative way?
Elizabeth: That’s a really interesting question, Joe. Things not to do. I think it’s important not to isolate yourself after you do this kind of work. So, that in addition to the whole principle of the ongoing nature of the process, I think the principle of community is really important.
I’ve come to appreciate the community around breathwork over the years — the relationships that we have created and the support that people offer each other. I really think we can’t do this kind of work completely on our own. We need support not just during the sessions, but in the days and weeks, months and even years between sessions.
We need support. We need to be able to talk with people about our experiences. We need to process our experiences verbally. I mean, we’re very social animals as human beings and we thrive in group kinds of settings. Now, some people at first are put off by group experiences and prefer to work one on one, maybe with a guide or a therapist. And that’s fine, but usually, there’s at least one other person involved. Somebody who can help you get through the rough spots in a way that’s supportive and not overly directive. And that can be a good friend as much as a therapist or an experience facilitator.
Kyle: Yeah. What’s Lenny’s saying? “We’re the descendants of very successful tribes.”
Elizabeth: Yeah, we’re all the descendants of successful tribes. So, that’s part of our heritage. I think in our margin, in our modern culture, that’s something that’s missing. And you see a lot of people just yearning for that kind of communal experience.
A lot of people come to our workshops, I see them get so much meaning and joy out of just the personal connections that are made. A lot of people are simply lonely, and you just need that kind of contact and the building of community and relationships.
Kyle: It makes me think a lot about rites of passages, how those are formed, say, in some of those traditional cultures where maybe the adolescent would go out and you’d have this experience, but then they’d have the safety net of the elders, the container, and the community to come back to.
And when we have these really big experiences, I mean, we might have a few people to talk to, but we don’t really have that community to come back to. I know after my near-death experience, I was like, “Whoa, who do I talk to you about this now? I can’t really talk to my parents about it.” And I had to leave to find that. And I found it in Burlington. I found it in breathwork with you and Lenny.
Elizabeth: I remember that about you, Kyle. And that was a process that took many years for you to build that kind of community. So, as a young teenager, that was really … As I understand it, that was one of the hardest aspects of it afterwards was that you didn’t have anybody you felt you could really talk to.
Kyle: Yeah, exactly. And that’s been one of the biggest integration pieces for me when I think about integration — how do you just be okay with the people around you and learn how to just embody that experience even though you might not be able to talk to that person necessarily? How do you continue to be in a relationship with them and not feel so isolated?
Elizabeth: Well that kind of goes back to your last question, Joe, of what not to do. So, Kyle just touched on that really when he mentioned who you can’t talk to about these experiences. So, I think it’s important to search out people who you know will be supportive and understanding, and not share your experiences with people who might discount or trivialize your experience because they just don’t understand this kind of work.
And that can be lonely if it’s somebody important in your life that you can’t discuss these kinds of experiences with. That’s definitely a big dilemma.
Kyle: Do you have any tips or advice to work through anything that arises after a workshop or an experience? We talk about the process continuing, but maybe how to work with some of that stuff that comes up in the next coming weeks to months.
Elizabeth: Well, so if there’s somatic stuff coming up in the body, it can be really helpful to go get some bodywork after a session. A really good deep tissue massage or any kind of work that’s going to help resolve things that might still be coming up in the body. We’re fortunate now in this day and age, there are so many different kinds of bodywork.
Bodywork can be extremely helpful.
And then those of us who are holding the space for people and supporting this kind of work, I think it’s on us to make ourselves accessible to people after the sessions and to say that we can be available for them to reach out and contact us if they’re having trouble — so that they know there’s somebody who understands what they’ve been through who’s there for them to listen to them.
I mean sometimes people just need to talk. It’s not like you have to do much else than just listen and support them with your attention. People need to be heard and feel that what they’re experiencing isn’t totally abnormal but it’s just a normal part of their process. That can be all they need maybe. Just a friend or a person who understands that they can talk with.
Joe: That ties into a lot of what we’ve been talking about lately where, maybe you have these integration groups, but that’s the essence of it right there is just to talk and be heard.
Elizabeth: I love the idea of the integration groups that you guys are doing. I mean, I think that’s exactly the kind of format that will help fill in the space in between experiential sessions and give people the sense of community and belonging.
I mean look at the whole AA thing, the fact that that’s done as group work. I mean, people struggling with in the addiction field, they go to groups that meet regularly where they can talk about their experiences and share them and feel that kind of support.
That has been an incredibly successful approach over the years. So, I think your idea of having these integration groups is exactly the kind of approach that’s going to be helpful for people who are struggling with integrating extraordinary experiences. I’m really happy you’re doing that.
Kyle: Thank you. Yeah, part of it too is we come to your workshop for a weekend, have these really close connections, have these really powerful experiences, and then in between it’s like, “Oh, where’s that community?”
So, part of it for me is how do we keep it going? How do we keep the conversation going and finding those people that we can support and hold space for so the process can continue and it’s still healing with it.
Elizabeth: Technology has made that easier too. I mean, look at what we’re doing right now. And the fact, even as an email group, you can continue sharing. It definitely has its limitations, but it’s better than nothing.
Don’t Make Any Big Changes Right Away
Joe: You often speak about not making any big changes in the next six months. Can you speak about that?
Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, a lot of times people take material that comes up in their sessions, there’s a tendency maybe to take it literally and think that to interpret their session in a certain way that makes them think, “Oh, that means I need to leave my job right now, or I need to end this relationship now.”
We encourage people to sit with that for a little while before they act on it, to be sure that things have settled and that they’ve had some time to process their experience a little more before making any major life decisions.
But there are no hard and fast rules about that. It’s just something to be aware of. People can have amazing insights and extraordinary experiences that are … Can be taken literally. But sometimes as you know, there are many levels to these experiences, and you have to treat them symbolically or metaphorically. So, it’s just a caveat, but not a hard and fast rule.
Final Thoughts
Joe: Is there anything, any additional points you might want to raise before we kind of wrap up here?
Elizabeth: I would just encourage people to reach out when they feel like they’re having difficulty or trouble understanding something that might be going on, and knowing that there are all kinds of groups out there. And to be sure that when they do this kind of work, they do it in a safe setting, and that they have access to people who will be able to support them afterwards.
The MAPS website is a really good resource for understanding this aspect of the work. I think there’s material there about safety set and setting. So, to keep all of those considerations in mind, I would just end with that reminder.
Joe: You’re never alone and people do want to help you.
Elizabeth Gibson, thank you very much. You can find her website at dreamshadow.com.
Elizabeth: Thank you.
About Elizabeth Gibson
Elizabeth Gibson, M.S., holds a bachelor’s degree in literature and a master’s degree in biology from The University of Tulsa. She has completed Herbert Benson’s Clinical Training in Mind/Body Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Previously she worked as a consultant at Arthur D. Little, Inc., and Radian Corporation in the areas of environmental protection and food research. She is a writer, editor and homemaker with interests in environmental literacy, yoga, music and gardening. Elizabeth is the editor of Stanislav Grof ’s The Ultimate Journey: Consciousness and the Mystery of Death and a contributor to the teaching manual MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for the Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, both published by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. For the past 12 years, she has been responsible for local news for the Town of Pawlet, and from 2008 – 2014 she was the editor of the weekly environment section for the Rutland Herald and Montpelier Times Argus newspapers in Vermont.
In this episode Kyle and Joe sit down and discuss Esketamine, a new FDA approved drug that is a derivative of Ketamine. They invite quotes from professionals who have experience with generic Ketamine and to voice their opinions.
3 Key Points:
Janssen Pharmaceutica has announced an FDA approved derivative of Ketamine, Esketamine, called Spravato.
The new drug is facing critique on its pricing, route of administration as well as functional differences when compared to the traditional, generic Ketamine.
Joe and Kyle invite professionals in the field who have experience with generic Ketamine to voice their opinions, hopes and concerns about Spravato.
Janssen Pharmaceutica, a Johnson & Johnson Subsidiary has created a derivative of Ketamine called Esketamine and has gone through the whole FDA approval process
There has been some concern about a big pharmaceutical company, Janssen coming in and creating a ‘new molecule’ and introducing an FDA approved ‘psychedelic’ to make generic Ketamine obsolete
Pricing
There is going to be price differences based on routes of administration (Intravenous vs lozenges)
$1.59 at 100 milligrams (93% bioavailable when administered IM)
The list price of Esketamine through Janssen will be $590-$885 per treatment session based on the dosage taken which will vary between patients
During the first month of therapy, that would add up to $4720-$6785
After the first month, maintenance therapy could range from $2300-$3500
Joe reads a quote from Scott that says that the new Janssen Esketamine product is overpriced, the research data showed that only 2 out of 5 studies demonstrated effectiveness, and generic Ketamine is much more effective and cheaper than Esketamine
Insurance
Insurance might cover Esketamine
Kyle says he hasn’t heard of too many generic Ketamine sessions being covered by Insurance
“I need not continue the discussion. The case is too clear for elaboration. Yet the trained body of physiologists under the influence of the ideas germane to their successful methodology entirely ignore the whole mass of adverse evidence. We have here a colossal example of anti-empirical dogmatism arising from a successful methodology. Evidence which lies outside the method simply does not count. We are, of course, reminded that the neglect of this evidence arises from the fact that it lies outside the scope of the methodology of the science. That method consists in tracing the persistence of the physical and chemical principles throughout physiological operations.” – quote from Function of Reason
Opinions
Joe invites listeners to ask questions and leave a message of opinions and such (either anonymously or using your name)
Google voice 970-368-3133
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
A common mistake people make is thinking all of the work happens in the session, when really only a portion of the work happens in the session, and the rest happens afterward during integration.
It’s important not to isolate yourself after this work, it’s important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience.
Elizabeth compares journeywork to planting a seed. You can’t grow a whole plant in one session, you simply plant the seed. You determine how it grows by how you water and cultivate it (integrate it), it’s a process that can’t be rushed.
Integration is one of the most important aspects of work with extraordinary experiences
“How do you take material that’s come up and bring it into your everyday life? How do you realize the benefit of the intense work that you’ve done?” – Elizabeth
Elizabeth’s Background
Elizabeth has been facilitating Breathwork for 23 years
She was a part of MDMA trials in the 80’s when it was legal
Elizabeth helped edit the MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy Manual
Integrating the Experience
A common mistake that people make is thinking all of the work is in the session itself, but really that’s only half of the work. The other half of the work happens after leaving the session, the integration.
Integration is about being more present with ourselves in every moment, not just yearning to get back to the state of the session
The long term subtle changes that happen over time are the most important
Stan Grof says that aerobic activity like swimming, running, etc is a way of connecting with energy and feelings that operate at deeper levels
Elizabeth says she likes drawing immediately after an experience to work with it symbolically, and then journaling a day or two later once she is able to verbalize her experience
“Just do it before you think too much about it”
Community Benefits
It’s important not to isolate yourself after this work
“The principle of community is really important. We can’t do this work completely on our own.” – Elizabeth
We are all the descendants of successful tribes
It’s important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience
If there is somatic stuff happening in the body, it is a good idea to do some body work, such as deep tissue massage
On the other side, if we are holding the space for others who went through a session, it’s important for us to make ourselves available for them
Just to talk and to be heard is so important on its own
Email follow up is tricky because a person can pour their heart out or be very vague or not get deep in their email
The email follow up method is also tricky because of difficult response time and interpretation of responses
Facebook groups can be a helpful way of finding the others and creating a community to be able to reach out to understanding individuals
Elizabeth says it’s like the analogy of seeds being planted, you decide how you want it to grow and how you cultivate it
Acting too quickly after an experience isn’t always the best idea, its best to keep it slow
Journeywork Tips
Safe setting
Access to people who will be able to support you afterward
Elizabeth Gibson, M.S., holds a bachelor’s degree in literature and a master’s degree in biology from The University of Tulsa. She has completed Herbert Benson’s Clinical Training in Mind/Body Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Previously she worked as a consultant at Arthur D. Little, Inc., and Radian Corporation in the areas of environmental protection and food research. She is a writer, editor and homemaker with interests in environmental literacy, yoga, music and gardening. Elizabeth is the editor of Stanislav Grof ’s The Ultimate Journey: Consciousness and the Mystery of Death and a contributor to the teaching manual MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for the Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, both published by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. For the past 12 years, she has been responsible for local news for the Town of Pawlet, and from 2008 – 2014 she was the editor of the weekly environment section for the Rutland Herald and Montpelier Times Argus newspapers in Vermont.
In this episode Joe interviews, Richie Ogulnick, a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast. During the show they discuss Ibogaine and Addiction-Interruption Therapy.
3 Key Points:
Ibogaine is a compound found in the Tabernanthe Iboga plant that has been used to treat opioid and other addictions.
Ibogaine has shown to have the power to reset the biochemistry of a person to a non-addictive state, and reduce/eliminate the agonizing symptoms of withdrawal, allowing a person to heal from an addiction.
The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse.
In 1989 he was Introduced to Ibogaine while visiting family and friends in New York
Its an alkaloid extracted from a West African shrub
He was ready to fall in love with doing something with purpose
He came across an article about a corporation called NDA created by Howard Lotsof
When Howard (a heroine addict) was 19 years old, a chemist gave him a dose of Ibogaine
A few days later, he realized he “wasn’t afraid” and then he realized he wasn’t having opioid withdrawals
In “Needle Park”, a park in New York, heroin addicts come there for free needles
Richie’s dream was to dose all the addicts with Ibogaine, and that only a quarter of them would show up to Needle Park because they were not addicted anymore
He brought 13 grams of Ibogaine back from Africa with him
He received a chapter from a book (Healing Journey) called Ibogaine: Fantasy and Reality by Claudio Naranjo
People were coming from all over the world to receive Ibogaine treatments
It was 15 years where he conducted over 750 psycho-spiritual and addiction-interception sessions underground
Upon training people, those people would then go and open their own treatment centers in Mexico, abroad, etc.
What is Iboga
Tabernanthe Iboga is the plant
Ibogaine Hydrochloride is the best product to use to interrupt addiction and symptoms of withdrawal from an addiction
Ibogaine is safe as long as someone has had an EKG that has been looked at very closely for any red flags
Other than cardiac risk and previous suicidality, schizophrenia, psychotic breaks there aren’t many more threats to being treated with Ibogaine
The Miracle Compound
“There is a miracle compound in ibogaine. There is nothing I have come across on the planet that can reset the biochemistry to a pre-addictive state, that can bring a person to make a choice without the agony of the symptoms of withdrawal.” – Richie
There is a 36 hour window where a person has a life review, what brought them to the addictive process in the first place, the person’s willingness and maturity
It creates a symbiotic relationship for a person to explore themselves with insight
Relapse is possible if they don’t work on the reason they became addicted in the first place
It’s the witness component that Ibogaine delivers that helps people process through their addiction
Ibogaine as a molecule has a really pharmacologically complex, alien like structure
Relapse
Justin Hoffman, a DJ in Las Vegas runs Holistic House, a facility where people get to relax and get out of their previous context for a week or two after treatment
If a family wanted to help out their family member who is addicted to heroine, Richie says that he asks the family about relocation because it’s a big part of reducing relapse
He also says that finding a proper therapist to help afterward is huge too
The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse
Big Pharma’s Impact
Joe says how he got a message from Dana Biel, talking about how the harm reduction movement has been manipulated by the ‘Big Pharma’ industry, especially suboxone
Richie says that drugs like suboxone are prescribed to be used everyday for the rest of someone’s life, and Ibogaine is a “one-time-only” style drug that doesn’t require alot of money to heal people
Ibogaine is not profitable so its not attractive to Big Pharma
“Ibogaine will never hit the streets like LSD did. It’s not a recreational experience, it’s a long, daunting 3 stage process.” – Richie
Use Cases
He knows of a story where these two ladies took Ibogaine daily for their Parkinson’s, and as soon as they stopped taking Ibogaine, they got their symptoms back
He knows of another lady who had been walking with a cane and upon taking Ibogaine she was walking a mile around her neighborhood without her cane
Final Thoughts
Joe asks if Richie thinks we are over harvesting Iboga
There is the Wakanga tree that contains a small amount of Ibogaine, so he thinks we are okay
Ibogaine is an important subject because a lot of people are dying from opiates
Ibogaine is available in Portugal but it hasn’t had much activity
It can be used for therapeutic use as well as addiction-interruption
Richie Ogulnick is a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast Over the course of fifteen and a half years, he conducted about 750 sessions, including addiction-interruption treatments. He spent the next several years referring close to 1,000 more people to other ibogaine providers. During that time, he also trained doctors and ex-addicts who opened ibogaine centers throughout the world. Richie feels a pull to focus again on the more therapeutic and psycho-spiritual treatments where he is able to offer his expertise in ibogaine treatment along with his knowledge of reintegration with individuals who are looking to deepen and enrich their life experience.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle sit down and engage in conversation together, covering topics such as Kyle’s capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork, current events, upcoming plans and the hurdles as a Psychedelic education and information company in a space of both ethical and unethical findings.
3 Key Points
Kyle will be soon finishing his capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork.
The project is on the clinical application of Breathwork Therapy. The goal will be to use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that can be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy.
Joe and Kyle find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world. They are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense. It’s a difficult time, where a lot of unethical stuff is happening around psychedelics, and Joe and Kyle feel responsible for the safety of the community.
Kyle’s been doing an internship a few days a week and has been doing undergraduate student counselling
He’s been working on his capstone project that has consumed a ton of his time and energy
He wants to thank Elizabeth Gibson and Alan Davis who have been reviewing his capstone project for him
Breathwork Therapy Capstone
Writing the capstone in the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program means it needed to have clinical applications
Kyle went to the MDMA Training in 2016, and he talked to Michael Mithoefer, who told him that if he wants to get involved, to figure out something that can be an adjunct to psychedelic therapy
Kyle thought that he could use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that could then be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy
Styles of Breathing
A deep, slow belly breath can be very activating to the parasympathetic nervous system that calms the body down
A fast, intense breath can be more active and can bring out traumas
The Phases
Phase 1: Grounding and Emotional Regulation (slow, deep breath, the therapeutic alliance)
They screen for people that have had a traumatic experience, spiritual emergence or psychosis in the last 6 months so they know where to start with a patient
They use a capscore (a test that looks at the severity of someone’s PTSD) to determine where to start in therapy
Joe mentions that it would be beneficial to see what level of capscore a patient responds positively or negatively to a Breathwork session
Phase 2: Using Breathwork in a somatic processing phase
Stage 1: Somatic experiencing (helping people breathe into the sensations in the body)
The body has a ‘secret language’, of how our body holds onto trauma
Turning inward and being more in touch with inner sensations (tightness, heat, etc)
Stage 2: A more activating of “blockages” by intensifying or speeding up the breath
Phase 3: Outside of the clinical scope, placing someone in a full group, 3 hour Breathwork that might bring up collective traumas or spiritual experiences
The goal would be to get people through therapy to get them to the larger group process, create community and form social connections
It needs to start with the clinical space, one-on-one to generate trust. Once they have that trust and confidence, they can go out and explore the more transpersonal and spiritual aspect of themselves
Bandwidth in Communication
We have modems, cable, fiber optics, 3g, 4g, 5g cell networks, etc.
Video communication, phone conversation is great, but it’s 2D
When its in person, depth of field kicks in, you’re able to see body language and intonation
Living in a tribe of 150 people and creating community, we’d be using our full bandwidth, bringing the human organism back to its full capacity
“Therapists get taught clinical practices, but they aren’t taught about theory and practice of trauma” – Joe
Joe says its not a bad thing, but there are risks by not having an in person facilitator
“We find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world, our relationship to coming out about that stuff is tricky. Yes, we are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense.” – Joe
Joe says he feels responsibility for safety in the community
Kyle says the psychedelic community sometimes feels like the wild west due to the lack of education. “When unethical stuff arises, what is our responsibility?” – Kyle
“We are trying to understand our future, and not put ourselves in a bad place, all while keeping you all safe and continuing to serve the community” – Joe
Joe and Kyle will be guiding 2 Breathwork workshops
They are excited to connect and meet people
Kyle and Joe will be going to another conference in March
The title of the conference is “Can Exceptional Experiences Save Humans, from Ecological Crisis”
“If were going to survive on earth, we’ve got to be a little more global. We are all linked to this spaceship that we are traveling through space on, and there are limited resources on this thing. We are answering a lot of these questions through psychedelics” – Joe
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, hosts Kyle and Joe interview Balázs Szigeti, PhD and David Erritzoe, PhD to discuss the self-blinded microdosing study in collaboration with the Imperial College London.
In this episode, they explore the self-blinding study and it’s pros and limitations, with the aim to collect data on microdosing and its possible benefits.
**Update as of 1/22/2018 – The plant psychedelic study extension was approved, together with the extension that allows for volumetric dosing.
3 Key Points:
Microdosing (LSD) has the least amount of research so far among research on drugs like Psilocybin, MDMA and Ketamine.
This microdosing study includes a procedure on how self-experimenters can implement placebo control. This will help determine whether microdosers feel benefits due to the placebo effect or because of the pharmacological action of the microdose.
Just because microdosing may have a placebo effect (the way a user feels while taking it) it may actually have benefits that one cannot necessarily ‘feel’ (users may become more creative, have better problem-solving skills, etc).
Balazs attended his undergrad in the UK at Imperial College and studied Theoretical Physics
He moved to Scotland to get his Ph.D. in Computational Neuroscience
He became interested in psychedelics via the Global Drug Survey
He was doing MDMA research and then the microdosing project came to him
About David
He is a medical doctor and works in clinical psychology doing research
He does brain imaging and his background has been in addiction, depression and schizophrenia
He did his postdoc at Imperial and worked with Robert Carhart Harris
He worked in a clinical trial working with people of treatment-resistant depression
He is currently working on an online survey for microdosing
Psychedelic Medicine
MDMA for PTSD is the most advanced in terms of available scientific evidence for psychedelic medicine
There is already a big gap in psilocybin vs MDMA for treatment
There isn’t much research on microdosing yet
In order to do research on microdosing, you’d have to bring in a ‘patient’ and have them in the lab for many hours at a time, very frequently, and it’s not practical
The Microdosing Study
In this microdosing study, they are testing cognitive function
The user will have to fill out a questionnaire throughout the duration of the microdose
There were a lot of things, very political for the downfall of psychedelic science
When the double-blind method was introduced for science, it used methods that would have compromised the ‘setting’ of taking psychedelics
There is a manual that the users have to follow for the setup process
Its a semi-randomized process where they take the microdose over 4 weeks and it may be either the psychedelic or a placebo
It works on a method of a dose hidden in a capsule assigned to a QR code, where the user doesn’t know what they take until the end of the study
This is a study inviting people that plan to microdose a blotter based psychedelic or plant-based psychedelics.
Its a hands-off study of observation, based on a users own plan on taking the substance
Summary of the Study
The Imperial-Beckley self-blinding microdose study is a new global study on psychedelics microdosing. The study uses a unique ‘self-blinding’ methodology where participants implement their own placebo control.
In the study, voluntary participants microdose on their own initiative, using their own substance, without the study team’s supervision. However, the study team provides a manual that explains step by step how self-experimenters can set up their own placebo control. The placebo control is implemented by placing both microdoses and empty capsules into sealed envelopes, which are then labelled with QR codes and distributed according to a schedule. Participants won’t know whether their capsules contain a microdose or an empty placebo until the end of the study.
The study is run entirely on the internet, therefore microdosers can participate from anywhere in the world, recruitment is now open.
This ‘self-blinding’ design allows the team to investigate whether the purported benefits of microdosing are due to the placebo effect, or the pharmacological action of the psychedelic, which is a critical scientific questions regarding microdosing.
Limitations of the Study
Its half-way between a clinical study and an observational study
They aren’t sending the users the LSD, they are just providing the platform for the users to share their experience on
In this trial, the flaw is that the research team doesn’t know the dose size of the blotter the user takes, it could start as a 100mg, more, less. Its a variable that cannot be controlled
The fix would be to have the LSD sent to the lab, tested for dose size, and then sent back to the user (anonymously), but since it’s illegal it cannot be done
It’s also hard to determine even distribution of a blotter into microdose size
They don’t know if the user is cutting the blotter paper like a pie or in squares
Also, because the drug is being bought on the black market, they wont know if there are adulterants in the drug unless the user tests the drug themselves
David and Balázs also say that based on current findings, most LSD tested is pure LSD, where a drug like MDMA is more common to contain an adulterant
They do have plans to extend the study to include plant based psychedelics and volumetric dosing
What is a Psychedelic Microdose?
Psychedelic microdosing is not the same as Pharmacological microdosing
A microdose in pharmacological context is 1/100th of a dose, where a psychedelic microdose is more like 1/10th of a dose
Is Microdosing Worth it?
People like David Nichols and Ben Sessa think microdosing is pointless
It could be that microdosing is a glorified placebo effect
Most people who are microdosing have had previous experience with psychedelics
People are doing it because they believe there is a benefit that comes from it
The placebo control is the most important component of this self-blinded method
People say that microdosing stimulates their creativity, but creativity is hard to measure
One thing they could measure is personality through a personality assessment
One thing that has been studied is an increase in the ‘Openness’ personality trait after psychedelic use
The flaw is that a personality test is a person answering questions about themselves
Current Findings
The benefit of this study is it doesn’t take people out of their natural, personal setting
Based on the feedback already received, the users are getting their guess right only half of the time, on whether it is the microdose or the placebo
Just because microdosing may have a placebo effect (the way they feel while taking it) it may actually have benefits (users may be more creative, have better problem-solving skills, etc).
Homeopathy is widely believed to be a placebo effect in the scientific community, but the homeopathy is continuing to grow
Dr. Balazs Szigeti has studied theoretical physics at Imperial College, but turned towards neuroscience for his PhD studies at the University of Edinburgh. His main work is about the behavioural neuroscience of invertebrates, but he has a diverse scientific portfolio that includes computational neuroscience and driving forward the OpenWorm open science initiative. Balazs is also the editor of the Dose of Science blog that is published in collaboration with the Drugreporter website. Dose of Science discusses and critically assesses scientific studies about recreational drugs. Recently Balazs has started a collaboration with the Global Drug Survey to quantitatively compare the dose of recreational users of various drugs with the scientific literature.
About David Erritzoe, PhD
Dr. David Erritzoe is qualified as a medical doctor from Copenhagen University Medical School and currently holds an Academic Clinical Lectureship in Psychiatry at Imperial College London. Alongside his clinical training in medicine/psychiatry, David has been involved in psychopharmacological research, using brain-imaging techniques such as PET and MRI. He has conducted post-doc imaging research in the neurobiology of addictions and major depression. Together with Prof Nutt and Dr Carhart-Harris he is also investigating the neurobiology and therapeutic potential of MDMA and classic psychedelics.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Jenifer Talley, Psychologist and Assistant Director at the Center for Optimal Living that specializes in harm reduction psychotherapy. Topics include the current stigma of substance use and the benefits of using a harm reduction approach.
3 Key Points:
Dr. Jenifer Talley is a Psychologist at the Center for Optimal Living who practices harm reduction with her psychotherapy clients.
Substance misuse is typically a symptom of a bigger issue. Jenifer uses integrative harm reduction psychotherapy, a model developed by Dr. Andrew Tatarsky that is organized around 7 Therapeutic Tasks to help build safe relationships with her clients in adjusting their relationships with drugs and alcohol and other behaviors.
There is a stigma on substance use, and shifting away from the current model into a harm reduction framework could help users be more receptive to change and healing.
Jenifer grew up outside of DC and moved up to the New York area for her internship and was working with female survivors of trauma and substance use at St. Luke’s Hospital.
Dr. Tatarsky founded the Center for Optimal Living in 2011 and she joined the team when they opened and is now the Assistant Director.
The Center for Optimal Living is known best for their clinical work and trainings focused on substance use and harm reduction.
Substance Misuse
Jenifer says that ‘abstinence only’ or ‘abstinence first’ approach doesn’t really work
It’s all about determining the relationship the patients want to have with a substance
Abstinence can be ineffective at engaging people who may not be ready to embrace abstinence as their goal. It also supports people’s autonomy and right to make decisions about what relationship they wish to have with drugs and alcohol.
People really struggle with vulnerability and trauma is a player as to why someone wants to use a substance
“Substance use is a symptom of a bigger issue” – Jenifer
It’s unfair to ask someone to change without asking the whole system to change
7 Therapeutic Tasks
The Therapeutic Alliance – Letting the client know they can trust them
Sets the stage for treatment in a way that is non-judgmental, compassionate and personalized. Emphasizing the goals that clients wish to work on vs. having my own agenda.
The Therapeutic Relationship Heals – Jenifer says they are sensitive about creating a safe therapeutic relationship with clients
Enhancing Self Management Skills – How to better help with coping skills, shifting how people relate to cravings
“What’s driving my urge to go for a drink right now?”
Loneliness, boredom, and sadness are reasons for craving
Assessment as Treatment – What was the craving, how did they respond to that craving, how did they give in to the craving, how did they feel afterward
When Friday night rolls around, can the client picture the guilt and shame of Monday morning in that moment?
Embracing Ambivalence – The client might have different parts of themselves, one part of them may want to really work on healing and change, and the other part of them might never want to change
Goal Setting – helping clients think through bigger lifestyle changes they want to make, such as diet, self-care activities, and specific substance use related goals
Personalized Plan for Change – asking people to really evaluate their use and create a realistic and individualized plan for meeting their goals
Substance Use Stigma
How do we not be judgmental about someone’s substance use, and care about their safety?
Jenifer says she feels very protective about people she works with, and is very sensitive to her clients because of the shame about their drug use
Clients Under the Influence
Jenifer asks herself “does this person need medical attention right now?”
She had a client that came in intoxicated but they were able to have a conversation still
But she didn’t let him go home because of the fact that he drank
She gave him food and water and waited until he was able to get home safely
She thought about it from a compassionate approach and thought “what is that telling us about his use?” and the next time the client came in they said their drinking was hardly manageable
Harm Reduction Model
There is a gap in training as clinicians as providers
In the US specifically, the 12 step process and abstinence are used which are a part of the disease model
There is a lot of stigma and shame in calling someone an “addict.”
The fear about the harm reduction model is that it is thought to lead to decriminalization
The other issue is that the harm reduction model is thought to not include abstinence
Jenifer says it does include abstinence, she just doesn’t lead with the abstinence approach
Kyle mentions that a common thought for clinicians is “How do I incorporate a hard reduction approach without condoning drug use?”
Jenifer says the drug use is happening already
The first step is noticing your own biases first, and then getting informed about the model
The training goes into the history and why there needs to be a paradigm shift in looking at addiction
The second and third days really go into the 7 Therapeutic Tasks
Because there is more funding, they are going to offer regional trainings in Florida and will also train the staff at the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene in NYC.
The idea of harm reduction might be less appealing to parents, so they really focus on educating parents and teens on harm reduction versus strict abstinence
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Dr. Jenifer Talley
As the Assistant Director of The Center for Optimal Living, Jenifer coordinates clinical services and training activities along with providing individual psychotherapy.Together with Dr. Andrew Tatarsky, she started the first-ever Harm Reduction Psychotherapy Certificate Program. In her clinical work at The Center for Optimal Living, she provides individual psychotherapy using an integrative harm reduction framework where the focus is on developing a collaborative and compassionate relationship with my clients to promote positive change.
In this episode, Joe interviews Steve Hupp, the Host of Kentucky Ayahuasca, a new series on Viceland. Topics include Steve’s background and how he wants to impact the American Ayahuasca scene through his work.
3 Key Points:
Kentucky Ayahuasca is a docu-series on Viceland about Shaman, Steve Hupp as he works with people seeking healing from severe emotional and physical issues.
Steve comes from an unusual background of career criminal and bank robber, and because of his time in prison with a Peruvian Shaman, has decided to bring the tradition to the United States.
Steve is careful not to mock what shamanism is by creating ceremony in the States. He wants facilitation to be done as safely as possible and is simply trying to help people through Ayahuasca ceremony.
It landed him in prison and put him into the same cell of a Peruvian shaman who had overstayed his visa and was probably doing some facilitating in the States
His name was Guadalupe and Steve called him Loopy because of the things he was talking about
But here and there Guadalupe would say something that would resonate with Steve days and weeks later that just made sense
Prison
He spent 4 years in prison
He got into the federal system because he had beaten the state system so the federal system picked up the case
Steve pleaded guilty and made a deal with them to give them their money back
He also agreed not to sue the police for opening fire on him
He was one of the first bank robbers released on a bond
Religion and Spirituality
Up to that point he was an Atheist
He decided that something else was keeping him alive for something because of what he survived during the police chase
Steve says he’s seen how religious law worked by seeing gangs turn into congregations
He says he is no longer an Atheist after having experience with Ayahuasca
He had an epiphany that “anything is possible” and he decided he wanted to bring this to everyone
He started to have coincidences that led him to facilitation
Shamanism
Steve isn’t trying to defraud what Shamanism is, but he is trying to tailor it to the American way of life
He says the Shaman in the jungle has a different context than an American does
Joe mentions that people get upset about how the word ‘shaman’ is used
Steve says ‘shaman’ comes from the Siberian word, ‘saman’, which means “to know” but has been branded by anthropologists
He also says shamanism is the oldest world religion
Joe brings up that so many people suggest doing Ayahuasca in the Amazon because that’s where the spirit of the plant is, but he also mentions that the same type of biodiversity exists in Kentucky too
Purpose
Steve says they face reverse-racism because they can’t work with native tribes because they are white, but he’s just looking to bring everyone together
“If we don’t start helping our little blue sphere heal, it’s all we’ve got” – Steve
He said he had more fear transitioning into Ayahuasca facilitation than any bank he’s robbed because he had to put his name on it
His intent is not to build a cult, he believes we are at the dawn of a new world and we are all in this together
Helping Addiction with Ayahuasca
Steve says he believes there are no addicts, just unbalanced humans
Joe says he read recently that the term “addict” keeps people in their problems
When he helps people who are addicted to drugs, and they drink Ayahuasca, they realize the drug is not the problem, but the guilt and the shame about using the drug is the problem
Plant Teacher
Steve believes we are intergalactic children
We could use our technology and knowledge to better us rather than being so distracted by the ‘lines in the sand’
He says we could feed everyone on the planet with land the size of Texas
What Ayahuasca is trying to teach us is to be kind to each other and we have that choice everyday
We need to get past this barbaric attitude of domination
“I know I’ve got grandchildren that I may never see, but I’ve got to try to leave them a world better than the one I’ve found” – Steve
If we were to teach our kids to teach our grandkids something, we wouldn’t be handing them millions of dollars in national debt
Its a non-violent change
“What if we collectively manifested accountability in our government?” – Steve
Law Enforcement
Steve believes law enforcement shouldn’t be able to have more power than soldiers at war
Soldiers in Iraq can’t fire unless they have been fired upon
Shaman University
No one has ever done this before, Steve wants to put together a structure to make sure this operation is done ethically
He wants to lay the foundation for people to participate in Ayahuasca ceremony safely
He says anybody can brew Ayahuasca, but doing it safely and properly is key
Joe encourages viewers to check out the series on Viceland
Steve also encourages listeners who want to do Ayahuasca abroad to do tons of research before attending to make sure there are proper facilitators, ethical procedures and quality emergency response techniques and resources
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Steve
Steve Hupp had spent time in the Military. He was lost in materialism, drug abuse, alcoholism and pride that led him on a 5 year bank robbing spree that ended with him in Federal Prison, where he met his first Shaman, a cellmate. Now he is an Ayahuasca Shaman performing psychedelic healing ceremonies in Kentucky. Steve has worked with Ayahuasca for 15 years, trained by a Shaman from South America on how to work with Ayahuasca. He has spent much of that time working alone and experiencing many visions and entities that called him to found Aya Quest.
In this episode, Joe sits down with Kevin Matthews, Campaign Manager of Decriminalize Denver, the group looking to decriminalize magic mushrooms. During the show, they cover topics such as the Right to Try Act, therapeutic success and what it might look like to have Psilocybin decriminalized in Denver.
3 Key Points:
Decriminalize Denver’s efforts are aimed to decriminalize Psilocybin Mushrooms in the city of Denver, CO., and are currently getting signatures to be on the May 2019 ballot.
The Federal Right to Try Act allows a person with a life-threatening illness to use any substance that has passed phase one clinical trials.
There is so much research and data on the benefits of Psilocybin Mushrooms, and being in an age of social media sharing, people are waking up to the idea of mushroom decriminalization.
Kevin is a part of the group, Decriminalize Denver
The group submitted the ballot initiative called the Denver Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization Initiative and they are getting signatures to make the May 2019 ballot
Kevin became interested in mushrooms after leaving as a Cadet at the US Military Academy due to major depression
He was interested in Psilocybin Mushrooms impact on depression
Talking Publicly about Psilocybin Use
“Self-healing from psychedelics” is something most people want to be careful talking about
Does it uninspire therapists?
Does it ruin the medical model?
Kevin states that people are afraid to talk about it because they are a schedule 1 substance
Those who are willing to take the risk to talk about it are because they believe that mushrooms might have the best impact on them
Right to Try Act
Kevin knows someone with PTSD and tumors who is prescribed to Psilocybin under the Federal Right to Try Act
Anyone who has a life-threatening illness can use any substance that has passed phase one under clinical trials
His psychiatrist said that the psilocybin has been nothing short of miraculous in its effects
He takes 1.5-2 grams of dried mushrooms every 7-10 days
It puts him in control of his own protocol
Trump just signed the Federal Right to Try Act this summer, Colorado has had their own since 2014
Generational Mushroom Use
Joe says that the media landscape has really changed in the past few years and so much more research and information is becoming accessible to everyone
Veterans for Natural Rights group is supporting this mushroom movement
After the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, a lot of people went underground with their use
30 million people in the country have used psychedelics in the last decade
More young people now are using psychedelics than the same age group used psychedelics in the 60’s
Decriminalize Denver
The goal of the group is to decriminalize the personal use and personal possession of Psilocybin mushrooms, including the propagation of mushrooms for personal use
“Our main goal with this is to keep individuals out of prison, help our vets, and help our loved ones who suffer from these traumas” – Kevin
Colorado Always Making Progress
Right now, Colorado state legislature is looking at safe injection sites and different kinds of penalty such as rehab instead of incarceration
Joe says Denver is a kind of microcosm of the whole nation, it has an interest in both sides of an issue, instead of just one sided
“Mushrooms help, in a very profound way. And opening that door is the first step to changing people’s minds, both metaphorically and physically.” – Kevin
The medical applications of Psilocybin are huge such as for a stutter, autoimmune issues, anxiety and depression
Talking about Psilocybin
Kevin says you can’t have a conversation without two opposing sides
He is excited for when the conversation starts because there is a ton of points on why Psilocybin is proven to be effective
John’s Hopkins said that Psilocybin should at a minimum be a Schedule 4 (same level as prescription sleep aids) source
Schedule 1 means “no medical value and high risk of abuse”
From the clinical research and population studies alone on Psilocybin, we know that’s false
Decriminalize Denver’s Current Focus
Getting all 5,000 signatures (2,000 so far) by January 7th
Coalition building, doing some fundraising
Getting volunteers activated
After getting all the signatures, then they will be on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the campaign and outreach starts
Using Psilocybin for Therapy
Joe brings up a story about his teacher Lenny Gibson who had multiple bouts of cancer and is a psychedelic scholar. Lenny was incredibly mad at Tim Leary because he was in cancer support groups and imagines how many more options cancer patients would have for pain if drugs were not made illegal
Looking at decreasing suffering, it would be special for the Denver population to find relief in anxiety and depression before going into a life-threatening surgery, etc.
If this turns into a regulatory medical paradigm, licensure is important
How do we create the paradigm to open the work in a professional therapeutic manner?
Grand Rounds
Doctors will get together around a case study and share it within the medical community
It’s a way to share and practice case studies organically and internally
With social media alone 30,000 people can be reached a month
Typing in to Google “benefits of mushrooms” brings up a ton of research
When people hear about John Hopkins, NYU, Harvard, UCLA Medical Center, and all of these companies that have already been doing the research they become more interested
It takes the breaking up of a family after prison time of a drug offense, 7 generations to recover
Joe knows of a case where someone in Colorado who got busted for having mushrooms only ended up serving 2 weeks and didn’t get a felony for it
In 2005 New Mexico Court of Appeal said that cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms does not qualify as the manufacture of a controlled substance, as long as they aren’t dried
Mushrooms are Beneficial, Not Harmful
How do we ruin fewer lives by legalizing mushrooms and keeping people out from behind bars?
Mushrooms can put you in touch with yourself and help connect yourself to others
Feedback
Most of the responses are, “Hell yeah I’m going to sign this!” or “This saved my life”
Kevin says when someone says no, it’s all about educating them
They had 45% support it and 20% maybes
Working with the City
The bill would include a Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, a city level committee made up of health professionals, Police, Denver Sheriff’s office, city attorneys, etc
Final Thoughts
Kevin wants as many people as possible willing to participate to volunteer
They will be starting public Q&A twice a month (and live streaming them)
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Kevin
Kevin Matthews is leading the decriminalization of Psilocybin mushrooms in Denver, Colorado. He and his group of dedicated volunteers are currently collecting signatures to make the May 2019 Ballot.
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In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Jake Mitchell from the Flight of Thoughts Podcast.
Jake has spent 4 years as a Paramedic in Canada and leads trainings around mental health, first aid and is bringing better practice of psychedelics into the psychedelic space.
3 Key Points:
It’s so important to know your substances and get a testing kit so you know its not laced and you know exactly what you’re taking.
More people seek help when they look at an overdose or a difficult experience as if they are suffering versus breaking the law. Decriminalization at the least, would help make people be seen as a patient and not a criminal.
Most police aren’t trained on mental health issues, and they have shot and killed people because they don’t know how to correctly respond to issues like schizophrenia. We need more mental health training among our law enforcement.
He had major depression and didn’t know it, and started to use cannabis as a useful tool for his depression
He started to notice some of the first responders use MDMA and Psilocybin off-duty to help with their PTSD
“PTSD for those who have been in combat is more understood than for first responders with it, people think that we can just handle it.” – Jake
There are levels of trauma that don’t qualify daily for PTSD, but for police and firefighters and such, they can be triggered by certain events
It’s hard to say what percentage of first responders use cannabis, MDMA and psilocybin for personal therapeutic use
Jake says he knows of at least a quarter of first responders who have been open about their use
There is a new initiative that if police use cannabis, even right before their shift, as long as they are ‘fit for duty’ they won’t be scrutinized
CBD
CBD counteracts the effects of THC, THC binds to CB1 receptors, and CBD binds to CB2 receptors
CBD is similar to Advil
If someone has taken too many edibles, they can take Advil to counteract the effect of the THC
It counteracts the THC similar to how CBD does
People used to say to have a good night, eat a pot brownie, but it’s a better idea to smoke for the first time than to eat an edible
Harm Reduction – Teaching People How to Respond to Overdose
They are teaching people about harm reduction kits or when to call an ambulance
Know your substances, and get a testing kit so you know its not laced and you know exactly what you’re taking
Know what breathing technique you want to use if you “feel the fear” setting in
If you know someone is on a clean substance, you can try to help them through it, but if it could be laced (with fentanyl, etc) call an ambulance
If someone is unresponsive, that’s a sign they could be overdosing
You can rub as hard as you can with your knuckles on their chest and scream their name, and if they don’t wake up, that’s a good sign to call 911
Always turn them on their side so that their air passages open up and they don’t asphyxiate on their tongue or vomit
If you are informed on how to use narcan and you think they are overdosing on fentanyl, use it
If they are awake and are psychologically freaking out, just sit them down and simply ask them “how can I help?” They might want something as simple as some water or to go for a walk
Knowing your dose is so important
LSD and psilocybin don’t have cardiac effects, they don’t shut off breathing, so you shouldn’t have a reason for feeling like your going to actually die unless it’s been laced
MDMA is one you have so worry about but you’d have to take hundreds and hundreds of milligrams
Usually the only reason that people overdose on heroin is because it’s laced with pharmaceuticals
Advil and Tylenol work similar to opioids
Sometimes we have emotional trauma and it comes out as physical pain
More people seek help when they look at it as that they are suffering versus breaking the law
Narcan costs $20-$40
An overdose death costs $30,000
In Canada, the pharmacist will inform you on how to use Narcan
Jake says he hopes that the US will catch up Narcan availability and use
The grinding of the teeth after taking MDMA may be a sign that it contains amphetamine
Decriminalization at the least, would help make people be seen as a patient and not a criminal
A Healthcare Issue, Not a Crime
The Good Samaritan Act in Canada says if you have minor possession of a substance and not a traffic-able amount, and you call the ambulance for an overdose, you will not be searched or charged
Most police aren’t trained on mental health issues, and there have been situations of people with schizophrenia having a moment in public, and because the police don’t have education on signs to look for, they have shot and killed the victim
23 and Me, the gene testing company, tested over 180,000 people’s genes in a sample
The findings showed that cannabis doesn’t cause schizophrenia, but people likely use cannabis to relieve symptoms of it
Serotonin Toxicity
Jake says he’s been hit in the face by someone on PCP
It took 6 police to hold one person down.
Another time, there was a guy who was wearing underwear in freezing weather, punching cars driving at almost 40 miles an hour
They were snorting Wellbutrin, an antidepressant that works as a stimulant when snorted
Serotonin syndrome is super dangerous
Ketamine is used in the ER for scenarios like this
Does taking MDMA too frequently ruin your serotonin system?
Emanuel Sferios – the number one risk of using MDMA is you might not get high from it anymore
Addiction
Type II Diabetes is a symptom of sugar addiction
Sugar and carbs create bacteria in the gut that releases plaque in the blood
Technology addiction – Jake had a patient that sliced an artery and was texting and on candy crush and Snapchat
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Jake
Jake is a Primary Care Paramedic with experience in emergency response, evidence-based research practice, harm reduction techniques, and crisis intervention. He is the Founder of The Psychedelic Society of First Responders and Emergency Workers.
Today in the show, Joe talks to Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente, founding members of Kosmicare, a drug testing, and harm reduction service at the Portugal Festival, Boom. Joe talks to Maria and Helena on their personal backgrounds, how they got into Boom, research on recreational use, what harm reduction looks like, and what populations are underserved. Drug use is decriminalized in Portugal, and the focus of risk minimization has been useful in getting the population served versus putting people in prison.
3 Key Points:
Kosmicare is a harm reduction and psychedelic emergency service starting at Boom music festival in Portugal. Working to support other events in Europe.
Boom is in Portugal, where drugs are decriminalized and drug testing is legal. Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has had.
The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, and HIV infection. Other countries like the US should consider a drug reform with the current opioid crisis.
Kosmicare is a non-profit organization that looks to transform nightlife culture through humanistic, comprehensive and evidence-based policies and interventions
They work toward a world where drugs can be used with liberty and wisdom
Making festivals safe in Europe
About Maria
Psychologist, graduated in 1999 at University of Porto
She started working in the field of problematic drug use
Growing up in a difficult neighborhood was her purpose for getting into studying psychology and drug use
She began focusing on recreational use
Her younger brother was into the Electronic Dance scene and positioning himself with using substances
She was interested in studying other motivations to use drugs than just using drugs to feed a problem
She heard an announcement by MAPS in 2008 recruiting volunteers to do work in psychedelic emergency at Boom
It was the perfect match considering her interest in psychology and drug use in recreational environments
About Helena
Helena is a Psychologist who was interested in drug use
She wanted to have field experience, and she volunteered in a needle exchange program
She began working for a harm reduction project to work in recreational settings that needed volunteers
She became interested in the potential that drug checking has in the harm reduction strategy
They are working toward a ‘drop-in’ where people can show up to a permanent space for drug checking and harm reduction
The Numbers
Over 20,000 people showed up to Kosmicare’s information session
This year for the first time, Kosmicare had an HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography) to identify LSD and pills
They tested over 700 drug samples in 6 days
Maria says half of the Boom population gets in contact with Kosmicare
They serve 1% of the Boom population for psychedelic emergency (about 350 cases out of 35,000 attendees)
The episodes usually have to do with psycho-spiritual situations versus just an emergency about the drug taken
Psychedelic Emergencies
Boom is a transformational festival that hosts attendees from over 50 countries
Boom is different from Burning Man in that Boom is in Portugal which has a much more legal framework which helps with the services that can be offered
Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has
Joe states that there are numbers of regulatory police at Burning Man
Kosmicare is included in the entire setup of Boom, which helps reduce the number of scenarios that would cause an emergency at the festival, such as providing shaded areas all over
It gets up to 43 degrees Celcius (108 Fahrenheit)
But there is a water element so people can refresh themselves
In the largest dance areas at the festival, they included medical emergency Teepees so attendees could be helped as quickly as possible
Recreational Drug Use
They did a survey on recreational drug use and most of the respondents said they use drugs in a beneficial way that doesn’t interrupt their lives in a bad way
Similarly with Boom attendees, most of them want to use harm reduction techniques so they have positive experiences and don’t develop problems with their drug use
Mat Southwell “drug users are calculated risk takers”
“The legal framework has a terrible influence on people’s relationship with drugs” – Helena
Lessons Learned
Maria says they have had many groundbreaking challenges
In 2016 they had someone die on them while having a psychedelic emergency
It made her really question why she was doing this
Her first impression was that she was doing this work to save the inexperienced user
She was caught off guard by the person who died because they were an experienced user and didn’t taking unadulterated substances
“People may go over the top for a wide variety of reasons, it was the biggest lesson I learned working for the Psychedelic Emergency services” – Maria
It’s hard to determine people’s ability to calculate risks
If the person had collapsed in front of an urban hospital in the city, the Hospital couldn’t have done anything more than what they did at Kosmicare
Collaborations
Kosmicare has a collaborative relationship with Zendo
MAPS was hired by Boom to direct the harm reduction services
They use a lot of Stan Grof techniques for transpersonal psychology
They are partnered with many other organizations in Europe that are trying to deliver the same type of psychedelic emergency and harm reduction services
The Risks of Drug Policy
Joe points out that there are so many festivals happening without these services
The Rave Act prevents companies from attending festivals because it “harbors” drug use
In Portugal, the fact that drug use is decriminalized, it opened up a legal framework around harm reduction
Portugal is one of the few countries where drug checking is allowed by law
The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, HIV infection, tuberculosis and other things
Helena says that the US should rethink their drug policy considering the opioid epidemic
In Portugal, there were only 12 overdose cases with heroin and opioids
Portugal before the Drug Policy
In the 80’s, there was a heroin epidemic, which had an epidemic of high infection rates and HIV. This motivated the policy change
It was evident that prohibition was not working
Usually when it affects only poor people, no one cares, but the fentanyl crisis is affecting all sorts of populations
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Maria
Maria Carmo Carvalho, Kosmicare Manager, Boom Festival, Portugal, is a Lecturer at the Faculty of Education and Psychology at the Catholic University of Portugal. She researches if the field of psychoactive substance use and has completed a MSc and a PhD at the University of Porto on the field of psychoactive substance use, youth and recreational environments. She is Vice-President of ICEERS and Kosmicare Boom Festival manager since 2012.
About Helena
Helena Valente began working with people that use drugs in 2004, focusing in nightlife settings. Helena has a vast experience in coordinating national and European projects in the drug field. At the moment she is a researcher and PhD. Candidate at the Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences of the Porto University and founding member of Kosmicare Association.
Bluebird Botanicals is leading the industry in third-party testing and Lab results, green initiatives and a stand on hemp policy.
CBD helps cushion the psychoactive impact of THC on CB1 receptors, making for a less intense ‘high’.
Lex has a lot of hope for the 2018 Farm Bill, and believes hemp has widespread uses that will open many market opportunities in the future.
Intro
Joe interviews Lex Pelger, Science Director of Bluebird Botanicals, a Colorado-based company. They talk about CBD and the issues with the FDA talking about health benefits. The use cases of hemp and drug war are discussed.
Who is Lex Pelger?
He is a Science Director of Bluebird Botanicals. Lex moves from New York to Colorado. He did a psychedelic storytelling open mic tour (Blue Dot tour) across the USA and it culminated at the MAPS Psychedelic Science Conference. Moved from the hustle of New York to Colorado to have his baby.
The Cannabinoid
Lex gets excited the more he learns about how intricate the endocannabinoid system is to humans and all mammals
Bluebird Botanicals doesn’t make any medical claims
CDB supports health and homeostasis
The cannabinoid system was discovered in the body only 25 years ago
Opium and Cannabis were the two oldest plants used in the body
There isn’t anyone connection for cannabis, because there are so many receptors in the human body
There is a ton of research happening on cannabinoids
Lex thinks the research ban on phytocannabinoids is unfortunate
Cannabis and cannabinoids are the most studied drugs in the US
CBD functions as a homeostasis molecule
Anandamide was the first endogenous cannabinoid discovered in the human brain in 1991 by a team led by Raphael Mechoulam in Israel
Raphael Mechoulam discovered the final structure of THC in 1963
CB1 Receptor in the brain was discovered in 1991 also
CB1 Receptor
If the CB1 receptors are blocked in a human or animal, they won’t get ‘high’ on weed
The presence of CBD doesn’t allow THC to fully bind to the CB1 receptor, so when CBD is present in THC, you won’t get quite as high
Lex thinks it’s unfortunate that because weed has been in prohibition, it has been bred so hard to only have THC
He thinks all weed should have a little bit of CBD to cushion the psychoactive nature of THC
The Endocannabinoid System
Joe says there is no profile to test the endocannabinoid system to know if a person is deficient or not, that he knows of
Lex says if you get your genetic results from a company like 23 and me, it will tell you about your cannabinoid alleles
A bad trip to a young brain can damage it forever
The activists that annoy Lex are ones that refuse the obvious negatives
Weed should not be given to all children
The ‘Right to Fly’ Jonathan Thompson – Psychedelic Parenting Blog and Podcast
How to create a community on psychedelics Noah Potter – Psychedelic Law Blog
An open-source thought experiment in psychedelic law and policy
“This plant is tied down by so many regulations” – Lex
In the state of Colorado, you can’t make new genetics
Lousy laws made it hard to diversify the cannabis plant
Lex believes Aldous Huxley’s book The Island is the best blueprint for what a sane integration of psychedelics and psychoactive might look like.
Lex says people taking mushrooms in the woods together is so special, simply because a group of people is spending 6-8 hours with nature and with each other.
Bluebird Botanicals
Many different products – isolates, oils, vape juice, and topicals will be back soon
Independent Lab Verification
Leading the industry with third-party lab results
Transparent about ingredients, NO pesticides used!
Paired with Eurofins – world’s biggest testing lab
Bluebird partners with the farmers, packaging partners, etc to be green and more eco-friendly always
CEO Brandon hears about a new point of quality to be added, he goes for it
Passed 99% inspection quality, CGMP
Lex thinks its so nice to work for a company that focuses on giving back to the customers, focusing on employees, quality, the planet, and just giving back
CBD Drug Law Changes in California
The regulations restrict being able to add CBD to food, which goes is against the 2014 Federal Farm Bill
Bluebird is on the board for the US Hemp Roundtable – Hemp Policy
Jonathan Miller – Lawyer of the group and writer to address misinterpretation of the law
“It’s foolish to have the 1950’s 1960’s mindset of cannabis” – Joe
Marijuana vs Hemp
Both are cannabis plants
Cannabis is the species, THC is more than .3% THC, Hemp is less than .3% THC
“If a state inspector comes in and tests 6 samples and the results come up as .4% or .5%, they make you burn it. They don’t burn it for you, you have to burn it yourself while you watch.” – Lex
Cannabis is tricky to grow for commercial use
It takes 3 generations for the plant to get used to the environment
“Thank you, farmers, for being farmers” – Joe
2018 Farm Bill
Mitch McConnell majority leader of the Senate, is pushing this because he comes from Kentucky, the Hemp state. The Senate version of the Farm Bill is correct, the House version has none of the correct language in it. McConnell and the pro-hemp committee will hash out the differences between the two bills. This Bill expands on all of the rights so it makes it look more enticing and safe for big businesses like Whole Foods and Banks. This bill is going to open up many markets.
Hemp as an Industrial Product
“What’s really cool about hemp is how widespread the uses are” – Lex
The Hemperor, Jack Herer discovered all of the uses for the hemp plant
Oil and plastic did win, hemp did not win as a top 10 commodity
It’s a hard plant to work within the processing stage
Thomas Jefferson stopped growing hemp because the retting stage was too hard on his slaves
Hemp is not going to change all the markets it’s been said it will transform
Lex says hempcrete is fascinating. Using hemp as lubricants, bath bombs, and just the seeds are fascinating uses
The Russians and the English fought in a war over access to hemp
Hemp is a rope that doesn’t get destroyed by saltwater, fueled the world’s Navy
Fiber is so important, and hemp as a fiber was widespread
Hemp seeds are a perfect mix of essential fatty acids
Hemp seed made pigeons breed more
Joe says there was a huge tradition of people eating pigeons
Agriculture is so bad for topsoil, hemp can help repair our lands for us to keep surviving
Hemp is a holy material in Korea
Joseph Needham layed out all of China’s inventions and explained that the founders of Daoism had a cannabis-induced ‘dream’ and envisioned the first Daoist school where Yin and Yang came from
Lex’s job as a Science Director for Bluebird
Lex does a lot of education around CBD, Cannabinoid science conferences
His passion for cannabis stems from his grandma’s medical condition
He wanted to find a way to describe the cannabinoid system for elders to understand
Lex is thankful for groups like Erowid, who sit down and interview our elders
Lex tells a story about a man who took LSD in the woods, and fell to the ground and felt one with the trees, felt himself rooting down, and felt complete. He never forgot that feeling
Lex thinks that a person should be stable before embarking on a psychedelic journey
“Huxley says that therapists are attracted to psychedelics because of their own dark icebergs” – Lex. He thinks that therapists should be A gatekeeper, not THE gatekeeper
Joe has been trying to get in touch with Dana Beal who popularized ibogaine
“Dana Beal was an old-time, cowboy pot smuggler to fund yippie political activism, outreach, and political activism, so he could make the way that he made money, illegal” – Lex He used the system against itself
Cannabis can cause catalepsy in people – which makes one ‘blackout’
90% of cointel pros were against the Black Panthers
Hoover feared them because they were black and he was racist
They were extremely effective
Lex explains that the war on cannabis has a racist framework, Nixon said “Because black people use cocaine and hippies use cannabis, we can use it against them”
Lex goes on to talk about the history of the CIA, which puts its money into drug trade because it’s untraceable, they protect the drug lords to use it for their own financial benefit
He says the CIA and DEA are inefficient bureaucracies
“Our belief at Bluebird, is we have to end the war on drugs. It’s not a war on drugs, it’s a war on people. The war on drugs is incredibly effective at doing what it was designed to do, and that was to hold, certain people groups down”
Joe comments saying that there are babies being born and being brought into this world. He appreciates Bluebird for having proper business practice
Final Thoughts
Lex finished his Moby Dick Pot books about the endocannabinoid system and the war on drugs He says he based them on Moby Dick because it was the only thing large enough to fit the entire history of cannabis and war on drugs
He does the Greener Grass Podcast for Bluebird which includes topics on cannabis and green initiatives.
The consumption of 5-MeO-DMT by inhaling bufotoxins from the Colorado River toad (lat. Incilius Alvarius), also known as “Bufo Alvarius”, “El Sapo/Sapito”, “Bufo”, and “Toad”, has become increasingly popular in a variety of underground ceremonial settings in recent years. Furthermore, due to the realization of the potential 5-MeO-DMT holds for therapy it has also become a new interest in psychedelic research.
When I started psychedelic research for my dissertation at Maastricht University in fall 2017, there was no research addressing the subjective effects from inhalation of bufotoxins in humans. Thus, I brought it upon myself to investigate this further as the consumption of the so-called “toad-medicine” was booming worldwide.
The primary aim of the study was to investigate whether the bufotoxins from the toad, which is known to contain significant amounts of 5-MeO-DMT, as well as other compounds, produces long-lasting changes on affect and thinking style. The second objective was to assess whether the acute and long-term effects of the bufotoxins depend on the degree of ego dissolution and altered states of consciousness that was experienced during the ceremony. The preliminary evidence of this study was presented at the Beyond Psychedelics conference in Prague in June, and the recording of this presentation is now circling around on the web.
Even though the study results are very interesting and important to highlight due to the consumption of the “toad-medicine” worldwide, I think it is of equal importance, if not more, to shed light on another side of the story. A side of the story that for once does not focus on humans.
This article aims to share information, increase awareness, and stimulate reflection about how the consumption of bufotoxins affect the toad.
5-methoxydimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) is a potent, fast-acting, natural psychoactive indolealkymine substance, which acts as a serotonin (5-HT-1-A/5-HT-2A) receptor agonist (Shen, Jiang et al. 2010, Szabo, Kovacs et al. 2014). 5-MeO-DMT was initially isolated from the bark of Dictyoloma incanescens (Pachter 1959), and has also been found in the milky-white secretion that protects the Incilius Alvarius toad against predators (Weil and Davis 1994).
This toad, also known as Bufo Alvarius, has become well-known worldwide as a “5-MeO-DMT-making-machine”. Its secretion, when inhaled through vaporization, has proven to be powerfully psychoactive within 15 seconds, causing an experience of unity reported by participants in underground ceremonies in the most repeated soundbite “we are all one” (Weil and Davis 1994).
The presence of 5-MeO-DMT in the secretion is not the only substance that makes the toad so interesting. In fact, it is also the only species whose skin contains 5-methoxyindolealkylamines as well as 5-hydroxyindole-O-methyl transferase activity (Erspamer, Vitali et al. 1967). This enzyme, among other reactions, converts bufotenine (5-OH-DMT) to the potent hallucinogen 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) (Weil and Davis 1994).
That being said, bufotoxins are the name of a collection of compounds which can be found on the toad’s skin, and in the two glands behind the eyes called the parotid glands (Tyler 1976). Several types of toxic and non-toxic substances can be found in the bufotoxins and they include the following; cardioactive agents such as for example bufagins (bufandienolides), catecholamines such as epinephrine and norepinephrine, indolealkylamines such as bufothionine, serotonin, cinobufotenine, bufotenine and dehydrobufotenine, and finally noncardiac sterols, which are non-toxic, such as cholesterol, provitamin D, gamma sitosteral and ergosterol (Chen and Kovaříková 1967). Moreover, as illustrated in the work for Erspamer and colleagues (1967) using paper chromatography, the bufotoxins include not only 5-MeO-DMT but also many other compounds. As previously mentioned, these compounds protect the toad from predators, and can, for this reason, have fatal consequences as demonstrated by reports of animals that have died after biting toads.
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Although these bufotoxins are a natural defense mechanism of the toad, humans have found a way of using them for a different purpose. At the present time, a number of people are smoking bufotoxins at underground ceremonies. Moreover, many also make use of 5-MeO-DMT from plant extract (i.e. yopo) or from a synthetic origin. A recent survey by Johns Hopkins demonstrates that use of 5-MeO-DMT, from either toad, plant extract or synthetic origin, is used infrequently and primarily for spiritual exploration (Davis, Barsuglia et al. 2018). Anecdotal, and empirical evidence demonstrates that people also use 5-MeO-DMT for treating psychiatric conditions such as depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder and substance abuse (Psychedelic Times, 2016). The resulting subjective effects appear to be due to the compounds ability to induce mystical experiences which have been demonstrated to have lasting beneficial effects (Garcia-Romeu, R Griffiths et al. 2014).
To be able to inhale the bufotoxins one would have to “milk the toad.” It is worth noting that the toads hibernate for most of the year, and generally appear just before summer showers, and congregate when the rains begin for reproduction (Fouquette Jr 1970). This is the time when they can be found and milked. The pamphlet titled “Bufo Alvarius, the Psychedelic Toad of the Sonoran Desert” outlines detailed instructions for collecting and drying the venom;
“You hold it [wearing gloves] over a flat glass plate or any other smooth, nonporous surface at least 12-inches square, the toad is held in front of the plate, which is fixed in a vertical position. In this manner, “the venom can be collected on the glass plate, free of dirt and liquid released when the toad is handled” (Most 1984).
Moreover, from the article Weil and Davis from 1994:
“One Bufo Alvarius yield 0.25-0.5 gram of dried venom. Since concentrations of 5-MeO-DMT may be as high as 15% one toad may yield 75 mg of an hallucogenic drug that, when smoked, is effective in humans at doses of 3-5 mg. In other words, a single toad produces 15 or more doses of one of the most potent psychoactive drugs found I nature. A matchbox sized container would represent thousands of effective doses.”
With this in mind, it is no wonder that the harvest and consumption of the toad’s bufotoxins have increased.
The harvesting of the toad’s bufotoxins happens not only from the hands of facilitators of ceremonies, or consumers but also from toad-hunters such as the ones filmed in “Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia: The Psychedelic Toad” who after harvesting the bufotoxins sell it (VICELAND 2017). In the video clip, the toad-hunters report that they have collected around 500 grams of bufotoxins over the years. This equals 5,000 doses if one dose is 100 milligrams of bufotoxin, and means that in order for one person to have the experience at least two toads must be milked.
Colorado river toad (Incilius alvarius), also known as the Sonoran desert toad.
Now how does the harvesting and consumption of bufotoxins impact the toad?
At this point in time (October 2018) the toads are classified as “least concern” on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (Hammerson & Santos-Barrera, 2004). Although this may be true, these assessments are from 2004, and is therefore very likely to be outdated. A new assessment about the toad’s population size is highly warranted given the attention the toad has received and the consumption of the toads’ bufotoxins worldwide.
Nevertheless, it is not old news that the amphibian population worldwide is declining. Actually, their global decline was first recognized in the early 1990s (Wake 1991). As of 2010, 32% of the world’s nearly 6600 amphibian species are threatened with extinction, 43% are experiencing declines and for another 22%, there are insufficient data (Stuart, Chanson et al. 2004). This phenomenon represents the Earth’s sixth mass extinction (Wake and Vredenburg 2008). That being said, there is no single cause to the global amphibian decline, rather there may be several contributing factors (Hayes, Falso et al. 2010). As outlined in the paper by Hayes and colleagues, there are three levels of possible factors for the amphibian decline.
The first level involves 1) death (or removal) of individuals and 2) reduced recruitment within a population. (Editors note: recruitment occurs when juvenile organisms survive to be added to a population, by birth or immigration, usually a stage whereby the organisms are settled and able to be detected by an observer. Source – Wikipedia
The second level involves 1) increased disease rate, 2) decrease in nutrition, 3) predation, 4) human exploitation 5) “other mortality”, which represent everything from the death of older individuals, incidental death, to catastrophic events.
Finally, the third level involves 1) atmospheric change, 2) environmental pollutants, 3) habitat loss, 4) invasive species, and finally 5) pathogens. These levels are also suggested to interact with one another.
It is not rocket science that the above-mentioned factors also have an impact on the toad. The increasing demand for the bufotoxins for inhalation has made the toad susceptible to not only ecological disturbance through the invasion of habitat and excessive milking, but also amphibian-trafficking and black-market dynamics. Additionally, according to herpetologist Robert Anthony Villa, the largest toads are most likely to be spotted and collected over smaller toads, and if you remove the biggest toads, you remove the population’s ability to sustain itself as the bigger toads have a lot of eggs (Psychedelic Today 2018). Moreover, based on studies on snakes, we know that 80% of snakes die if you catch them, move them to a different territory and let them go. Similarly, toads have an inner-GPS that they rely on, and if a toad is taken out of their territory for milking, and then set free elsewhere, they are very likely to die because they are either simply lost, could get run over by a car, or eaten by predators. The latter is more likely to successfully happen when the toad has been deprived of their main defense mechanism.
Along with that, Villa reports that the toad is very likely to be impacted negatively by pathogens, such as for example chytridiomycosis, which is exposed to them by people when they are collected for milking and can spread to the rest of the toad population. Additionally, as the surviving toads depend on the genetic variety of other populations to sustain themselves, the toads would inbreed themselves to extinction if there are no other populations to copulate with. Finally, keeping a toad as a pet, or many in large conservations for breeding, is a huge disservice to the toad as they do not do well in captivity, and due to the factors previously stated.
Given the circumstances, it seems to me that the harvesting and consumption of bufotoxins or so-called “toad medicine” is very much the case of the “double effect” principle; with a good act, comes a bad consequence. The aforementioned are all alarming factors that could very well lead toward population decline and so to extinction. This is all startling information that calls for action.
A discontinuation of “toad medicine” in favor of synthetic 5-MeO-DMT use can diminish the current unnecessary and excessive harassment of the Incilius Alvarius species. Switching from using toad bufotoxin to synthetic 5-MeO-DMT is better for many other reasons. First, synthetic 5-MeO-DMT does not contain a cocktail of other compounds and is therefore much safer to use. Likewise, it will be much easier for researchers to re-schedule and legalize a pure substance for medical use than a complex bufotoxin. Second, synthetic 5-MeO-DMT is not any different from “toad-medicine”. In fact, the argument that “toad-medicine” is better than synthetic is a claim that is drawn from personal experience and is not a good enough argument to extend to a generality.
I personally think it is important that we start to reflect upon the implications our actions have on the toads and take action. It is not necessary to wait until the toads are classified as endangered before we act.
My hope and wish for the future is that all of us, be it, consumers, researchers, organizers, or facilitators, will think twice about whether experiencing 5-MeO-DMT at the expense of a species’ continued presence on this planet is worth it. Especially when there is an alternative way which is much safer to use, not any different from the effects of the bufotoxins, and does not contribute to ecocide.
The book “Homo Deus; A Brief History of Tomorrow” highlights several important and interesting topics. One of them is the power human beings have, and how this power can affect the future of the planet. One thing that Harari points out, which seems to be very fitting for this moment, is that humans have the capability to do many things, but that question is not “what we can do?”, but rather; “what should we do?” (Harari 2015).
References
Chen, K. and A. Kovaříková (1967). “Pharmacology and toxicology of toad venom.” Journal of pharmaceutical sciences56(12): 1535-1541.
Davis, A. K., J. P. Barsuglia, R. Lancelotta, R. M. Grant and E. Renn (2018). “The epidemiology of 5-methoxy-N, N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) use: Benefits, consequences, patterns of use, subjective effects, and reasons for consumption.” Journal of Psychopharmacology: 0269881118769063.
Erspamer, V., T. Vitali, M. Roseghini and J. M. Cei (1967). “5-Methoxy-and 5-hydroxyindoles in the skin of Bufo alvarius.” Biochemical pharmacology16(7): 1149-1164.
Fouquette Jr, M. (1970). “Bufo alvarius.” Catalogue of American Amphibians and Reptiles (CAAR).
Garcia-Romeu, A., R. R Griffiths and M. W Johnson (2014). “Psilocybin-occasioned mystical experiences in the treatment of tobacco addiction.” Current drug abuse reviews7(3): 157-164.
Harari (2015). Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow.
Hayes, T., P. Falso, S. Gallipeau and M. Stice (2010). “The cause of global amphibian declines: a developmental endocrinologist’s perspective.” Journal of Experimental Biology213(6): 921-933.
Most, A. (1984). Bufo alvarius: The psychedelic toad of the Sonoran desert, Venom Press.
Pachter, I. J. Z., D.E.Ribeiro, O. (1959). “Indole alkaloids of acer saccharinum (the Silver Maple), Dictyoloma incanescens, Piptadenia colubrina, and Mimosa hostilis.” J Org Chem24: 1285-1287.
Shen, H. W., X. L. Jiang, J. C. Winter and A. M. Yu (2010). “Psychedelic 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine: metabolism, pharmacokinetics, drug interactions, and pharmacological actions.” Curr Drug Metab11(8): 659-666.
Stuart, S. N., J. S. Chanson, N. A. Cox, B. E. Young, A. S. Rodrigues, D. L. Fischman and R. W. Waller (2004). “Status and trends of amphibian declines and extinctions worldwide.” Science306(5702): 1783-1786.
Szabo, A., A. Kovacs, E. Frecska and E. Rajnavolgyi (2014). “Psychedelic N, N-dimethyltryptamine and 5-methoxy-N, N-dimethyltryptamine modulate innate and adaptive inflammatory responses through the sigma-1 receptor of human monocyte-derived dendritic cells.” PloS one9(8): e106533.
Wake, D. B. (1991). “Declining amphibian populations.” Science253(5022): 860-861.
Wake, D. B. and V. T. Vredenburg (2008). “Are we in the midst of the sixth mass extinction? A view from the world of amphibians.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Weil, A. T. and W. Davis (1994). “Bufo alvarius: a potent hallucinogen of animal origin.” Journal of ethnopharmacology41(1-2): 1-8.
About the Author
Malin Vedøy Uthaug is a Ph.D. student at the University of Maastricht, Department of Neuropsychology & Psychopharmacology. She has a background in health and social psychology and is currently researching psychedelic (ayahuasca, 5-MeO-DMT, DMT, and mescaline) and yoga-induced improvements of mental health. On the side of being a student and researcher, she is a life coach and public speaker. She started her coaching project titled Love & Gratitude in September 2016 which serves as a platform to spread information related to positive psychology, and transpersonal psychology. Love & Gratitude has also become a way to bring about information about psychedelics and help to destigmatize them. She has since September 2016 delivered talks, webinars and workshops in Belgium, The Netherlands, Czech Republic, Norway, United States of America, and Colombia.
You can find more from Malin on Psychedelics Today here.
Download Joe Moore interviews Brian Pace. He studies Evolutionary Ecology, is a science consultant at The Third Wave, and is the director of the project, Mind Manifest Midwest, and instigator of the “Find the Others” project.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelics are not just illegal, they are also taboo, and Brian’s efforts are aimed to create spaces that make it more comfortable to talk about psychedelics.
Online resources are great, but having local, and real psychedelic societies to create community will help people “come out” and be comfortable talking about their experiences.
Brian’s interest evolved from ecology to psychedelics when he realized the issue of global warming. The top environmental problems are selfishness and greed, and changing people’s minds with psychedelics is a big hope for the planet.
Met Paul Austin of The Third Wave at the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance Conference.
The conference was foundational in him becoming outspoken about psychedelics.
Ibogaine – last resort option for people suffering from addiction.
Brian and the team built The Third Wave with the goal to bring the conversation about psychedelics to be more comfortable among the general public.
It has been good about building bridges to invite all types of people to the community, not just white males. It’s important to be inclusive in this space.
Find the Others
Started at Psychedelic Science, to talk about what psychedelic societies are.
Aware Project by Ashley Booth (www.awareproject.org)
Psychedelics are not just illegal, they are also Taboo – Michael Pollan
“Were having a cultural hangover from the upheavals we’ve had in the late 60’s and early 70’s.” – Brian
“We can fight taboos when we can have conversations – about that which was taboo – in the grocery store, in the bar, with our parents. I think that’s definitely what’s needed with psychedelics.” – Brian
Had the first psychedelic society meeting at a bar that included a presentation about plant secondary compounds and human health and ended with storytelling.
20% of Americans over the age of 15 have had some experience with psychedelics, 11% with LSD. (source unsure)
Mitch Gomez from Dance Safe – more than 50% of the population of the U.S has done illegal compounds at age 15 and up. Psychedelics have taken a big chunk of that number.
Cannabis is a great help for football players and traumatic brain injury.
“If psychedelics are ever going to be reintegrated meaningfully in society, we are going to need some kind of mentorship.” – Brian
Timothy Leary – “You’re born with the right to fly”. If you start driving on LSD, you might lose that right.
Find the Others, Mind Manifest Midwest, The Third Wave
A collaborative project that allows people to speak in their own words what they are doing in their psychedelic societies.
Psychedelic Societies are real, local and create community.
MDMA for PTSD will be passed at the Federal level very quickly.
Evolutionary Ecology
Psilocybin – PhD focused on plant secondary compounds.
The mycorrhizae network – “the Earth’s natural internet” – Paul Stamets
Climate change
Consumption – eating meat and driving cars
The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy. Changing people’s mindsets with psychedelics could be an only hope.
“Given that psychedelics have reliably induced mystical and/or religious experiences in people throughout time and across a variety of contexts, it seems natural that we should start organizing communities that help unpack and contextualize these experiences.” – Brian
The status of our society
Why do we have to work 55 hours a week to barely afford a 2 bedroom apartment?
Guaranteed minimum income – an experiment in other countries.
What does our society look like when it is less stressed?
Timothy Leary
“Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others…”
Helped create the importance of set and setting.
Saw the inside of 36 prisons for possession of marijuana.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Brian
Brian Pace, M.S. is a scientist by training and psychonaut by inclination. His interest in biology was piqued acutely as a teenager while experimenting with his own neurochemistry. For more than a decade, Brian has worked on agrobiodiversity, food sovereignty, urban cycling, and climate change in the US and Mexico. Brian is the co-founder of Mind Manifest Midwest (facebook.com/mindmanifestmidwest), a Columbus, Ohio based psychedelic society and the instigator of the Find the Others Project (findtheothersproject.org), a global collaboration of the burgeoning psychedelic society movement. Since 2016, he has contributed as a strategist for The Third Wave (thethirdwave.co). At The Ohio State University, he co-created a graduate-level class entitled: Cannabis: Past, present, and future cultivation for fiber, food, and medicine. He spent a year slogging around oil and wastewater pits left by Chevron-Texaco testing mycoremediation techniques in the Ecuadorian Amazon. All pipelines leak. Plant medicine is indigenous technology. Brian completes his Ph.D. in Plant Evolutionary Ecology this semester at OSU.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe dig into and create conversation over an email received about the cost of psychedelics, the facets of capitalism and about feeling isolated after a psychedelic experience.
3 Key Points:
Capitalism in psychedelics is a complex topic and includes factors such as the schooling system, the medical system, monopoly, trade, and other facets that go into the cost of psychedelics.
There are other forms of therapy that don’t have to involve psychedelics or lots of money.
Feeling isolated after an experience is sometimes our own blockage, by refusing to create community because a person hasn’t had the same experience as us. Psychedelics aren’t always needed for a psychedelic experience.
Email concern: Some psychedelic experiences seem segregated by a price bracket. Ketamine Therapy – believed it would help with their depression, but ended up spending a thousand dollars every two weeks.
Joe – curious that ketamine lozenges may be a cheaper option that could help. Kyle – although the drug itself may be cheap, you’re not just paying for the lozenges, you’re paying for a therapist or a psychiatrist. Kyle – in America, healing is a privilege. We work hard to pay for health insurance, or even if we are insured through work or family, it gets hard to pay for because of the premiums.
“I would rather pay for taking care of myself, than going out and partying with friends.”
Healing may have to be a choice sadly, you may have to ask yourself “do I want this or do I need this?” Joe – One treatment of ketamine is beneficial for a short-term intervention in an urgent state
One session of ketamine therapy helps the user understand the situation clearer and can reduce the thoughts of suicide Kyle – “some of my greatest healing experiences were done through my own work, with myself or with friends”
“How do you feel about the resurgence of spirituality and psychedelics and it’s capitalism?” Joe – Going from the states to Peru to do ayahuasca to reach spiritualism isn’t the only means of spirituality. There are so many other options than capitalist outlets to find spiritual development. Kyle – “I want to offer a lot of help, and do free workshops, but need money to survive.” Joe – Jokingly “You’re three months behind on your rent Terrence!”
A person doesn’t need hundreds of trips to be complete and happy, Aldous Huxley says you need three to four strong trips throughout your life.
“How do we protect the planet, and how do we maintain freedom?”
To talk about Capitalism and psychedelics, we are assuming that something needs to mediate the trade or exchange for therapy. Let’s continue to educate ourselves so that we don’t blame capitalism on the fact that therapy has a cost. It’s a hard conversation to have, it’s a complex topic. Joe – pro-socialized medicine
$30,000 for a first responder to take an overdose death away
$20-$30 for a Narcan
Let’s prevent and heal more. Capitalism does incentivize doctors and healers. Kyle – “how can we use these as tools and not toys?”
Medicalization of psychedelics may have a potential tie to capitalism
The difference between doing it legally for an extremely high price, versus paying the market price for a gram of mushrooms (illegally) and doing the work (therapy) on your own. Joe – Monopoly=capitalism Kyle – the Education system
Student loan debt can be a half a million dollars to be a doctor or therapist
That debt plays an effect on how much those doctors or therapists charge
“How do you deal with isolationism that certain psychedelic experiences bring forward?” Kyle – “this has been a huge issue in my life, this resonates with me. After having my near-death experience, I didn’t know to talk to people, how to function in the world. A near-death experience is one of the most psychedelic things. To slowly slip away and ‘die’, and come back to this place and not feel like this is where I belong, how do I exist here? It can lead to isolation. It can be extremely heavy.”
“We’re all experiencing this reality through our own lens, so we have to meet people where they are.”
The reason these experiences can make us feel lonely is that of the lack of community. Kyle believes in not just constantly going into these experiences, but more about the integration of the experiences. Joe – Tim Leary says “Find the others”. But there are a lot of psychedelic people out there who don’t take psychedelics that can be a part of your ‘community’. Kyle – it makes sense to feel like you need to connect with someone who has done psychedelics in order for them to understand, but we can connect with other people who may not have had psychedelic experiences.
The psychedelic experience isn’t the only way. We can also experience spiritualism and healing without psychedelics, too. Kyle – Experience in Jamaica, the Rastas talking about home and family, “if the oil splashes up and burns me, my family isn’t here to help me, but you’re here to help me, and you can help me.”
The people around me are family, they don’t always need to have had experienced the same things as me in order to help me Joe – group strengthens self
Robert Anton Wilson’s habit – he would order magazine subscriptions and most subscriptions aligned with his interests, and the other half were of subscriptions way outside of his interests, so he wouldn’t develop a bias.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe interviews Shane LeMaster, a therapist and host of the new Podcast, Conversations with the Mind. In this discussion, we cover personal journeying, changing behavioral processes, Jiu Jitsu, and where we are headed as a collective consciousness.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelics can be a helpful tool for personal journey work.
Each type of psychedelic works as its own tool. They are all useful in their own context and should not be compared to each other as better or worse.
Shane has used psychedelic therapy to help rewire past imprinted constructs of his mind to learn new behaviors in his Jiu Jitsu practice and his daily life.
“Recently, I’ve been working on softening my hard edges”
Construct – the scared child. Our childhood leaves imprints that effect our behavior as adults.
Hyper-masculinity is a result of repressing past issues.
Are there different messages after a journey in ketamine versus peyote?
Substances produce a different feeling as if there is an “other” or “entity” that sends the messages where with breathwork it’s more of a self realization
Drug chauvanism “my drug is better than your drug”
“Is LSD worse than mushrooms for spiritual development? Or breathwork? We can’t say yes or no definitively.” -Joe
Stan Grof – “why would you do breathwork if you have LSD?”
“There is something special about the group work process in breathwork, that deeper sense of connection is hugely valuable.” -Joe
Some substances are better when done alone in some circumstances, and substances used in a community setting as better for different circumstances. We have a choice in which tool
“You can’t build a house with just a hammer. If LSD is a hammer and ketamine is a saw, you can’t say a hammer is better than a saw, they are both essential.”
Ketamine in Fort Collins, CO
Dr. Scott Shannon
Shane
Therapist, making great changes but small changes, looking to make a greater impact through social work, helping people to better themselves.
Interest in mindfulness, positivity interventions, helping people see their power to fix their own issues
The changing landscape of how we understand consciousness
DMT vape pens
Make it more convenient for the consumer
Democratizes the experience, knocks down barriers to be able to have a profound experience
Podcasts – creating conversation about a shift in consciousness
Elon Musk – our intelligence is heightened through proper use of the cell phone
Stan Grof – technology of the sacred (ex. Breathwork)
Tim Leary – “hedonic engineering” – how to live a maximally more pleasurable life
Positive psychology meets wearable technology – developing the steps to the most enjoyable life
Tim Ferris twitter feed – “Creation is a better means of self expression than possession, it is through creating not possessing that life is revealed.”
“Be a creative force in the universe, it feels so good to create, and bring something to fruition, and share it with everybody, not to possess it.” -Shane
Conversations with the mind – Shane’s podcast
“One mind having a conversation with another mind. Two minds interacting, sharing knowledge, sharing distress, sharing solution, and adding the sum of the two parts coming together, and sharing it with the collective mind.” – Shane on the purpose behind his podcast
Guests on the show
How psychedelics help in jiu jitsu
PhD credential people
PTSD patients
Advice from Stan Grof
30-60 days without alcohol is needed before using Breathwork for therapy when treating alcoholism
Analogy – default brain behavior
like sledding down a hill, we always choose the same route. With psychedelics, it helps us see a new route. You stand up, and for the first time, you look up and take a 360 degree turn and see so many new routes that you have the choice to take.
Analogy used to reprocesses trauma, brings new options to think about the experience differently
Microdosing helps bring out new patterns of behavior to learn new skills
“In wrestling, the last place you want to be is on your back, that’s when you get pinned, that’s when you lose a match. In jiu jitsu, being in your back is a good place to be, because there’s a lot of options from there. So I had to unlearn the fear of being on my back. It’s all about retraining my neural pathways, retraining my thinking.” -Shane
Jiu Jitsu
It’s been said, earning a black belt is as much time and effort as earning a PhD
The transferable skills of Jiu Jitsu can be used in therapy, breathwork and integrating psychedelic experiences. It’s all consciousness work.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Shane
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.
He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.
His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.
For the first time in nearly three decades, novel classes of medication are being offered to those suffering from chronic refractory mental health conditions. Studies have shown that 60% to 70% of people with treatment-resistant depression respond positively to ketamine, and some encouraging results are being found with OCD, PTSD, and alcohol dependence.
Though this discovery has been hailed as a massive boon to those living with persistent mental health concerns, their loved ones, and clinicians alike, it may also behoove us to explore the potential unintended consequence of these effective, fast-acting antidepressants.
Many welcome rapid recovery with relief and gratitude in being able to return to their lives; however, in our work with Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy, we have noticed that a small percentage of clients also experience a period of disequilibrium and difficulty in adjusting to these changes.
These reactions can range from over-reliance on older coping styles that no longer match one’s current state, to the distress that comes from the loss of a habituated identity (“I don’t even know who I am anymore, without my old buddy, Depression”). I have come to refer to this response metaphorically as “the therapeutic bends,” as a way to suggest the effects that can occur when we ascend rapidly from great depths. In two decades of clinical work, I have seen a variety of ambivalent-to-negative reactions to the prospect of “getting better.” Psychotherapy generally offers recovery as a gradual process, with adequate time to adjust and be supported; the “instant cure” has been seen as both unattainable and potentially illusory. The advent of these new treatments requires a shift in how we guide people through this work. I would like to discuss here some possible layers where distress can occur, and interventions for both clients and providers to consider at each level.
Confronting Reality: Cognitive-Behavioral Layer
Ketamine infusion pioneer and psychiatrist Dr. Steven Levine has been noting this reaction for some time; in a recent blog post, he encourages providers to set expectations with clients that “even good change is stressful (marriages, moving homes, new jobs, and the birth of children are some of life’s most stressful events).” More dramatically, he describes a process in which one emerges from a depressive episode, then becomes overwhelmed by the herculean tasks ahead:
[W]hen one looks around, one sees with new eyes the surrounding devastation and the casualties from an incapacity to do anything about the growing problems…[this] is akin to a poorly prepared survivor of a nuclear apocalypse stepping out of his bunker into a lonely world of destruction.
Dr. Raquel Bennett, a psychologist and founder of the KRIYA Institute, has also been observing the effects of therapeutic ketamine on one’s sense of self for many years. She echos Dr. Levine’s observations that:
Resistance can come up for some people; they get a little better, and then can get scared, sometimes retreating back into a remission, which is actually more psychological than chemical… People wake up and realize how much time was lost to their illness, how much money was spent, how many relationships ruined, how many opportunities missed… We need to think about how painful it is to just be with that, what this condition has done to one’s life (personal communication, August 12th, 2018).
Additionally, those accustomed to very brief respites from symptoms may have a habitual tendency to throw themselves headlong into intense task completion mode the moment remission begins, in an effort to “get everything that piled up done before the storm hits again.”
FOR PROVIDERS: Dr. Levine writes that “even a ‘magic bullet’ leaves a wound that requires a period of recovery,” and that key components to this recovery are social support and ongoing therapy. Therapy should, in part, focus on “teaching new skills to challenge and combat depressive thoughts, and working towards achieving successes that help rebuild self-esteem.“ Similarly, Dr. Wesley Ryan states that he frames ketamine treatment as something that can provide a catalyst for change, transiently lifting depression, and allowing people to more easily engage in other activities that will protect against relapse. He encourages “regular exercise, healthy eating, socialization, behavioral activation, structure/volunteering/work, work/life balance, addressing activities or relationships that clash with personal values (such as work, for some people), potentially setting better boundaries” (personal communication, August 13, 2018). Providers may want to focus here on slowing the work down so as to not trigger overwhelm, cognitively reframing approaches to task completion, and teaching new ways to manage the demands of life. Psychotherapists may also invite expressions of regret and grief around the sense of lost opportunities as a way to work through these feelings effectively. FOR CLIENTS: As stated above, it is important to not overwhelm yourself at this stage. Trust that you will have the opportunity to make repairs and address life tasks over time, and please access as much support as possible to assist you in this undertaking. This is an excellent time to begin practicing new self-care habits that will ensure longer-term change. Additionally, you may benefit from making space in your life to acknowledge and feel any difficult emotions you may have around what has happened and talking to someone you trust who can listen without judgment. You may want assistance from a therapist, support group, or a good self-help guide in shifting how you think about yourself and your life.
Readjusting Roles: Interpersonal Layer
Dr. Bennett notes that often people’s intimate relationships become organized around the care-giving other people provide, and that “as soon as they start to improve, expectations and the relationship dynamics start to change.”
In family therapy perspectives, the “identified patient” (also “symptom bearer” or “scapegoat”) is a member of a dysfunctional system that has been unconsciously selected to express the distress of that system. Other members may profess concern for the identified patient, but may also react instinctively (and unintentionally) to any improvement by working to reinstate the status quo. What once seemed like an entirely biochemical illness can often be revealed as multiply determined when we notice loved ones’ discomfort with their ward slipping out of “sick role.” I have often felt concern in watching someone achieve remission, and then return to the same stressful environment in which the initial problems flourished. In less pathologizing terms, let us remember that there is a social expectation in the continuity of the self over time. People around us have adapted to how we typically act and express ourselves, and react with surprise when that shifts. Those reactions may subtly encourage us to return to our previous baseline. This is rarely intentional, but is extremely important to recognize. FOR PROVIDERS: Potential interventions to navigate through this period might include family therapy, couples therapy, or psychoeducation on the nature of family systems or group dynamics. We can assist clients in setting appropriate boundaries, and support them in having difficult conversations. FOR CLIENTS: If this is something you would like to address in your life, please talk to your providers about your specific situation and best practice interventions. It may be helpful to talk through how your relationships might change if your mood improves, or any fears of what might be expected of you if your condition shifts. In general, reading about and practicing Nonviolent Communication is a good way to improve relationships with the people around you.
Exploring Identity: Personal Layer
Much like our intimate others, we also have an expectation in the continuity of the self. When one has lived with a longer-term condition, there are ways in which it can get woven into one’s own identity. We become habituated to our capacities for activity and relating, and depend on our ability to predict how we might think and feel in any given situation.
It can be incredibly disorienting when a cluster of your regular experiences disappears overnight, and can foster a sense of not knowing yourself at all anymore. (This may be partly responsible for the “rubber band effect”–the tendency to return to our usual modes of being–that Dr. Phil Wolfson discusses in The Ketamine Papers.) Participation in online forums and support groups can provide invaluable insight and camaraderie; as helpful as this can be, it may also reify one’s social role as a fellow sufferer. We come to define ourselves as a depressed person, as someone struggling with fibromyalgia, as a recipient of Social Security or disability benefits. (Perhaps this is not such a novel occurrence, after all, as a similar phenomenon emerged with the advent of SSRIs. Peter Kramer noted in his 1997 book Listening to Prozac how his perspective on the nature of temperament was altered by witnessing responses to medication: “I was used to seeing patients’ personalities change slowly, through painfully acquired insight and hard practice in the world. But recently I had seen personalities altered almost instantly, by medication.” He reported similar disorientation and adjustment periods.) FOR PROVIDERS: Just as we would allow space for someone to discover new aspects of the self during a coming-out process, recognize that the remission period is also a fruitful period for exploration. Identity-making is an ongoing conversation throughout the lifespan. Acknowledge that with every new gain made, there are losses, and parts of our selves and lives that we are saying goodbye to. Inquire about the feelings that might arise during this phase. In our practice, we draw upon Internal Family Systems (IFS) techniques to help people have productive dialogues with different parts of their psyche, and discover (without judgment) what attachment to a depressed identity might mean for them. FOR CLIENTS: This is a time to look deeper at the beliefs you hold about yourself, and question their accuracy. You may consider getting reflections from someone who can listen neutrally and without agendas for your direction. A great self-help resource for IFS-style work is Jay Earley’s Self-Therapy. If you are concerned about returning to the workforce, many communities offer peer and professional support for those returning to work after a period of unemployment. This type of support should encourage autonomy, allow exploration of ability and identity, and avoid perpetuating disempowering ideas about what those with mental health struggles are able to contribute.
Letting it Out: Emotional Layer
Classic psychoanalytic conceptualizations regarding depression as “anger turned inward” can help frame the irritability or distress that may surface unexpectedly when symptoms remit. We have supported clients who, once they were relieved of depressive burdens, were then able to confront and feel appropriate anger stemming from past trauma, abandonment, or loss. This can be an incredibly healing process if one is supported by providers who understand the emerging emotional responses in context, but can be difficult to navigate on one’s own. Dr. Bennett has also observed anger and/or grief reactions, with people suddenly feeling “angry at God for making them sick, or at the situation, or all the doctors that didn’t help them previously…[W]hen this is buried or held down in the depression, and then starts to come up and out following treatment, people need therapeutic support to address that.” Though we think about depression as “sadness” and recovery as “happiness,” the reality is often not as simple. Depression can present with a numbing or flattening of emotions, and recovery may mean regaining access to a wide range of different feeling-states. Learning to navigate these states is essential. FOR PROVIDERS: Set expectations for all involved that recovery may involve unearthing unanticipated feelings and memories. Trauma-informed treatment is essential when working with some of these frozen states. Encourage safe expression of affect in session, and offer psychoeducation around appropriate assertiveness, boundary-setting, and anger management techniques. Teaching and practicing grounding exercises, such as the ones in the Seeking Safety protocol, can help people learn to re-regulate themselves when distressed. Additionally, Dr. Bennett notes that some continue to have suicidal ideation, but a critical shift occurs in its source, moving from a ruminative, painful “voice in your head that tells you that you’re better off dead,” to a response of grief, loss, or anger. She emphasizes the critical importance of attuned listening by clinicians to differentiate these sources, rather than assuming that the treatment was unsuccessful. FOR CLIENTS: If strong feelings are emerging during your treatment, please talk to your providers and request specific support for these states. If you are feeling suicidal, please reach out for help from your support network, call a hotline, or access urgent/emergency care. We recommend you do not navigate this process on your own. If you would like to learn techniques to manage anger, you may find an Anger Management Workbook useful. Interpersonal process groups and assertiveness trainings may also be appropriate. We highly recommend the grounding techniques from the Seeking Safety protocol for those looking to manage the overwhelm that results from a history of trauma.
Digging Deeper: Unconscious Layer
Above all, we must make space for the deeply personal and idiosyncratic responses people have to both their symptoms and the remission of those symptoms. We can not assume that this process has identical meaning for everyone we see. Honoring the uniqueness of the self and its adaptations to life’s challenges is part of what gives this work its beauty and depth.
Furthermore, meaning is held both consciously and unconsciously. Deep structures of the self are laid down early in life, in the interactions between temperament and environment, and are rarely available for immediate reflection. It is the work of ongoing inquiry in the therapeutic relationship to bring these templates into awareness. For example, I have had the experience of working with people who were eventually able to articulate their depression as the only link remaining with a lost loved one; there is a way in which these symptoms served as tributes to the depth of their connection. Rapid removal of these mood states may then trigger responses of loss and abandonment. Other clients have also formulated depressions as a coping tool itself: as a protective layer that prevents one from having to engage fully in life, an escape from having to make difficult choices, or an avoidance of confronting painful realities. Another example is indicated by psychoanalyst Patrick Casement in On Learning from the Patient:
I have noticed, with a number of patients, that the experience of feeling better is sometimes treated by the patient as a signal for further anxiety. Some analysts might treat this as a fear of losing the “secondary gains from illness.” Others might regard it as “negative therapeutic reaction.” However, I believe there are some occasions when a patient is indicating that an unconscious link has been formed between an earlier experience of trauma and the prior sense of safety, as if that “safety” had been a warning signal for the pending disaster. Perhaps an unconscious set is formed in which feeling safe and the subsequent catastrophe are seen as forever linked (1992, p. 364).
FOR PROVIDERS: Although psychoanalytic and psychodynamic frameworks are fundamental to understanding the operation of these deep templates, dogmatic adherence to any one theoretical system forecloses the open exploration of individualized responses. Curious inquiry and a desire to hear about any potential meanings that may arise go much farther than the most brilliant textbook formulation. In essence: “what does this mean for YOU?” It can be helpful to explore the relationship someone has with their depression, and how that relationship has changed over time. Narrative therapy ideas and practices can assist people in re-writing the stories of their lives into a more integrated personal mythology. FOR CLIENTS: Part of recovery inherently involves an investigation into the myriad internal, interlocking factors that keep us stuck in old ways of being. Though your situation will be completely unique, you are in fine company with the rest of humanity, as we all struggle to move out of safety and towards growth. If you sense that there have been ways in which depression has protected you from confronting difficult aspects of life, please make sure you begin to discuss this with your providers. Together, you may begin to re-author the tale of your history in a way that conveys respect for your resilience, as well as hope for the future.
Spiritual Crisis: Transpersonal Layer
We know that higher-dose journeys with ketamine can produce psychedelic, dissociative states, facilitating a profound transpersonal or mystical peak experience and expanding one’s sense of self and understanding of existence. Dr. Bennett shares that for some, this “contact with the Divine” can be intense and overwhelming, especially if there has not been much preparation for this self-expansion, and if one has been “out of touch with God for 30 or 40 years.” She also notes that the changes one can be called to make in one’s life following a peak experience can be disorienting. Psychic and spiritual content–especially following the use of psychedelics–can be mistaken for symptoms of psychosis in our highly secular culture. It is extremely important to differentiate between an illness process, and an enhanced sensitivity to transpersonal material. When held in a supportive context, these experiences can be extraordinarily meaningful to people. FOR PROVIDERS: Have conversations during the preparation phase about your client’s existential concerns, spiritual encounters, and beliefs about the nature of reality or the universe. Familiarize yourself with the techniques and mindset necessary for supporting someone during a spiritual emergence or crisis process. Contemplate the differences between a dark night of the soul vs. depression. Work to bracket your own belief systems in order to allow for free expression. FOR CLIENTS: Again, adequate preparation for working with ketamine, especially at higher doses, is essential. Please choose your guides wisely, and work closely with them to help you navigate these experiences. If you are troubled by existential or spiritual concerns following a journey and could use a framework for integration, contact the Spiritual Emergence Network for more resources, including spiritual coaches and helpful reading material. You could work with a provider that specializes in psychedelic integration, or attend a community integration circle. You may also want to seek spiritual guidance within an organized or non-organized tradition (whether Western, Eastern, indigenous, or other). The above linked material on grounding can be helpful if you are experiencing a great deal of energetic activation following treatment.
In practice, these layers are obviously intertwined, and interventions at one level may affect all others, as we present as whole beings, bringing surface-to-depth concerns to every interaction. As a final note: please know that none of this is intended to frighten you away from obtaining ketamine treatment, but rather to assure you that should you have these experiences, you are not alone, and that there are many ways to move through this phase without necessitating a relapse or causing untoward effects in your life. Being prepared for the possibility of the therapeutic bends often helps people feel less surprised or destabilized, and collaborating with your support team on how to handle this, should it arise, is of paramount importance.
Thank you so much for reading this post, and we welcome your questions and comments!
About the Author
Dr. Jessica Katzman is a licensed Clinical Psychologist with 19 years of experience as a therapist, and was trained at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in both traditional and transpersonal perspectives on healing. She is also certified as a Spiritual Emergence Coach, and approaches altered states of consciousness from a nonjudgmental, exploratory stance.
In her private practice, she specializes in integrating psychedelic experiences, supporting LGBTQQIAAP communities and gender-creative folks, addressing alcohol and substance use from a harm reduction perspective, body image issues, mood/anxiety disorders, social justice conversations, and navigating non-traditional relationships and sexuality.
After assisting a local ketamine infusion clinic with psychotherapy program development, she and our medical doctor joined forces to provide integrated Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy for Healing Realms. She is supported by information received at the KRIYA Conference, an advanced training in therapeutic ketamine, and ongoing consultation with her colleagues in the field.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today we interview Emanuel Sferios, founder of DanceSafe and host of the new Drug Positive Podcast. The discussion mainly revolves around what “drug positive” means, MDMA, and harm reduction.
3 Key Points:
The history of MDMA is different than we have been taught.
MDMA is quite safe and the harms are very low. Risk reduction is a more appropriate term at times.
Emanuel is positive that his early drug experiences substantially helped improve his life.
Show Notes
There is an largely unknown history of MDMA.
Sasha Shulgin apparently was not the first to synthesize it in the modern era.
He created a new synthesis method.
MDMA was the first designer drug in a sense.
MDA became illegal and chemists decided to change the molecule
Manuel Noriega of Panama used MDMA at least once and gave permission to some chemists to manufacture in Panama shortly before the US invasion.
Harms from MDMA are quite minimal and small.
Parents who have lost a child can be natural allies to the drug positive movement.
Best practices for drug testing MDMA and Cocaine.
It is going to be really hard to convince the public to legalize drugs other than cannabis.
About Emanuel Sferios
Emanuel Sferios is an activist, educator and harm reduction advocate. Founding DanceSafe in 1998 and starting the first laboratory pill analysis program for ecstasy users that same year (now hosted at Ecstasydata.org), Emanuel pioneered MDMA harm reduction services in the United States. His MDMA Neurochemistry Slideshow has been viewed over 30 million times and remains a primary educational resource for physicians, teachers, drug abuse prevention counselors and MDMA users alike. Emanuel resigned from DanceSafe in 2001 and went on to work in other areas of popular education and harm reduction. He has recently come back as a volunteer. Oh! And he’s making a movie.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Robin Kurland-West, a licensed marriage and family therapist based out of California. Kyle and Robin chat about challenges and other questions in regard to providing psychedelic integration services. Psychedelic integration is a new territory, and there are plenty of questions to still answer and cover.
She offers integration services through her therapy practice.
Robin had questions about how to create an introduction practice and how to follow up.
She was licensed in 2010 and graduated from the California Institute of Integral Studies in 2006.
About a year ago she decided to do a karma cleanse and began to talk to a friend about psychedelics.
Her friend sent her a podcast that spoke to her.
She was doing some shadow work and dealing with her addiction experiences.
She said a prayer over the psilocybin and was open to what it would show her.
A spirit appeared and the forest started sending her messages.
It was a female spirit and used two trees to illustrate the inside of her brain.
It taught her that her mind was holding onto negative beliefs.
She taught her that she needed to let go, that it was “all so absurd.”
What has been the difference between experimenting in college vs. doing the work as an adult?
In college, it was seen as a party drug.
She had a hard time having conversations with people.
She doesn’t see it as a party drug anymore, it’s something that you honor.
She now views it as a medicine that heals parts that have been cut off.
Having had a history of addiction, some people are afraid psychedelics might be addictive.
Psychedelics are non-addictive because other drugs are about escaping, and psychedelics are about being fully present.
What is integration work for you and how do you approach it?
This is new territory for her after having her own experience.
She joined a network called the psychedelic support network.
Because it’s not yet legal, it’s a bit of a struggle.
She offers pre and post ritual services.
People meet with her and do a pretty thorough assessment.
They set the intention for the experience.
Afterward they look at what some of the messages were and how to incorporate it into their daily lives.
Do you help with dosage?
She focuses more on intention setting because she’s still new at this.
She refers people to resources to help with other things.
Is there a therapeutic approach you use with people?
She uses expressive arts therapy to tap into the unconscious and subconscious.
She always uses family systems, there’s usually a root to behavior.
She uses CBT and DBT.
She uses journaling and narrative therapy.
It’s an opportunity to rewrite your story – a new perspective to an old story.
She uses mandala work and drawing.
She has them stand up and move around.
Utilizing movement to integrate is huge.
After having her profound experience with psychedelics, she finds it to be a warm blanket she can reach for to remind you that things are different now.
What type of challenges have you had providing integration services to people?
She wants to know how soon she should see a client after they start on this journey.
How many times should she see a client after, and how many times?
It could be more individual.
She started to do psychotherapy to go deep and heal.
It’s possible to put your medical license at risk by providing certain services.
She can’t sit with people when they have their experience and has to be clear that it’s a decision that they’re making.
She has to detach herself from a lot of it.
She likes the idea of immediacy in following up with clients.
She sees a client 3-4 times beforehand to make sure they’re healthy enough and set intention.
Afterward she wants to see them soon so they can hold onto the gold they discovered in the journey.
How do you choose the right psychedelic experience for a person?
The idea of doing a diagnosis to find out what will work is tricky.
Throw it back on the person to see what they’re looking for.
It’s not a scary experience, but you want to make sure you’re with someone who’s trained.
There’s a couple that wants to come in and do integration therapy together.
She wants to meet with them individually and together beforehand.
People are in therapy to discover themselves and they might find something different than they’ve been looking for.
How do you approach people who think integration specialists can get them drugs or be a guide during experiences?
She says it isn’t about her telling them to use illicit drugs and she doesn’t do drugs with them or hook them up.
The difference between integration therapy and a guide:
A guide is someone you trust who sits with you.
An integration therapist is just pre and post where she’s not involved in the drug.
Have you had any clients reach out trying to integrate a really difficult experience?
Not yet, but she’s looking forward to it.
She would ask questions about what they saw and felt.
She would bring in the arts to map it out and they can look at it together.
You can have a psychedelic experience without having psychedelics.
Is there anything you’re looking forward to with clients?
In traditional therapy right now, she’s coming up against blockage in some of her clients.
She sees a lot of people being stuck, and that’s the hardest part.
She’s excited to see the light turn back on in people’s eyes and see them be healed.
She wants to see people be present with themselves and each other so they can have a fuller life.
How do you approach therapy and coaching?
She just does the psychotherapy, asking questions.
She appeals to a clients inner resources.
Do you do any online work?
She only does in-person work, every once in a while she does a phone session.
She works holistically, so people don’t just focus on the mind, also the body and the spirit.
Do you get people reaching out from all over the place?
Yes, because her name is on the psychedelic support list.
She filled out an application and had some correspondence with the organization.
What are some of your favorite podcasts and resources?
The Psychedelic Salon Podcast
Episode Quotes
I don’t see psychedelics as a party drug anymore, it’s something that you honor, a medicine.
I like to see my clients soon after their experience so they can hold onto the gold they discovered on their journey.
People are in therapy to discover themselves and they might find something different than they’ve been looking for.
Robin Kurland-West received her license in 2010. Prior to becoming licensed she has worked in non profit agencies and inpatient recovery centers as clinical director, supervisor and lead therapist. Through this journey she has focused her expertise on trauma and addictions. Currently Robin has a private practice in the Sacramento area and works with individuals, families, couples and groups. Her passion to explore consciousness and the healing potential of psychedelics has been prominent through out and is committed to making a difference with those suffering from PTSD and addictions through the use of plant medicines and psychedelic integration therapy.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle Buller interviews Dr. Richard Grossman, an ayahuasca ceremony facilitator and expert with a background in healing and acupuncture.
Episode Quotes
I find mystical poetry to be an amazing aid in ceremony work.
Is it the vision or the emotion that you feel and then the vision comes?
In my work, the psychedelic experience is about going beyond the visionary state.
The core of all creation is in the heart and breath.
Show Notes
About Dr. Richard Grossman
Has a long background in healing.
He used to be a macrobiotic chef.
Primeval meditations and licensed acupuncturist.
Works with ayahuasca and San Pedro.
How did Richard get involved in ayahuasca?
A friend brought some up from Peru and his life changed in one night.
It took him years as an acupuncturist learning more about healing.
He’s been doing this for about thirty years.
Do you integrate your acupuncture practice into ceremony?
Not so much with ayahuasca – that’s done traditionally.
He had a lot of experience with the Shipibo Tradition.
With the San Pedro method, the body change happens in one day.
Opinions on psychedelic visions.
Many people want them and they’re a distraction.
The real thing is that the source of everything is within.
If a person can experience that for an instant, their life changes.
There are a lot of things happening on subtle levels.
The psychonaut and healing processes are quite different.
What are some examples of ideas you’ve seen in the psychedelic community?
People trying to draw in gods and goddesses.
You need to see how deep a human being can go, it’s an infinite journey.
What is it like to go deeper and deeper?
If you can imagine a series of curtains parting over and over and over again.
You begin to see places of illusion.
During one of his trips, he visualized himself in a Nazi concentration camp.
A voice told him to trust and forgive.
He began to question what forgiveness and trust mean.
Some people are seeking spirituality and not really healing within.
Ayahuasca tourism is a fairly good thing, rather than people coming and ruining the jungle.
How would you define a healing process?
It’s a complex subject, he likes the idea of a series of concentric circles.
Do you work with a person’s energy?
People get very relaxed.
If there is someone who can’t get relax he calms them with acupuncture.
Do you think intoxicants affects the chi?
San Pedro or ayahuasca are not considered intoxicants.
He sees that ayahuasca is only good for the body.
Psilocybin has a rough effect on the liver.
The tannins in ayahuasca are valuable and bind toxins in the body.
Do you have to worry about any cardiovascular problems?
It is a stimulant so he screens people before doing the ceremony.
Beauty is a healing process, beauty heals.
Is there anything you’re excited about in the psychedelic world?
When the community comes together to heal it’s powerful.
We’re all going to a place of more love, peace, joy, and healing.
What’s the outcome of thousands of people experiencing love and joy?
What’s the ayahuasca ceremony structure?
Constant music, keeping things from going totally wonky.
There’s a point in the ceremony that it could go in either direction:
Total group insanity or total group healing.
Iowaska ceremonies can be dangerous.
It’s something to be respected with its own spirit.
You must hold close to the traditions of generations.
There’s always a point during the ceremony where he feels it’s the most important and beautiful place he’s ever been.
Drama’s not necessary, our culture wants the drama.
We need to outgrow externalizing the blame.
Life in our heart is meant to be enjoyed.
Suffering to heal just doesn’t work.
Culture seems to dwell on suffering, is that conditioning?
The worst thing a human can possibly do is feeling guilty.
“Guilt can’t fly and God wants you to fly.”
The nature of reality is joy and love.
You need to be willing to let go of the things that don’t work.
Sign up for our free course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Richard Grossman, L.AC., O.M.D., Ph.D.
Richard Grossman studied Oriental Medicine at the California Acupuncture College in Los Angeles and received his post-graduate acupuncture training in Beijing, in a course sponsored by the World Health Organization and attended by physicians from around the world. He earned a Masters in Acupuncture, a Doctor of Oriental Medicine degree, a Ph.D. in Oriental Medicine, a Diplomat in Acupuncture, a Diplomat of Pain Management, and a Diplomat in Acupuncture Orthopedics.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your hosts Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Dr. Monnica Williams from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Will Siu a psychiatrist in private practice based in Manhattan, and a therapist on MAPS’s MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD clinical trials at the University of Connecticut. They join us to discuss race-based trauma, people of color in psychedelics, and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.
Show Notes
About Dr. Will Siu
He’s a psychiatrist and therapist on the MDMA for PTSD clinical trials with the supervision of Dr. Monnica Williams.
Based in NYC and has a private practice.
Does some work in emergency psychiatry at a local hospital.
About Dr. Monnica Williams
Associate professor at the University of Connecticut.
Does graduate teaching and multicultural psychology and research in the health center.
Currently doing a study on MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD.
What is race-based trauma?
There had been some studies previously.
When people become traumatized by experiences of racism, oppression, marginalization based on their perceived identity.
Often because of ongoing experiences, like microaggressions
Eventually, people have so many of these experiences that they start to have symptoms of PTSD.
People get so distressed and afraid that they act in a way that might harm them.
You have to think about trauma in a non-single event way.
Exploring the topic epigenetics.
Trauma has been passed down from generation to generation.
Layer epigenetics on top of what’s currently going on and trauma is understandable.
How has recruiting been going for the MDMA study?
It’s challenging, they’re not drawing from the same population the other sites are.
They’re creating a culturally safe, welcoming environment for people of color.
There is fear and misinformation that requires them to do a lot of education on the front end.
Research abuses haven’t stopped, they’re still continuing today.
Psychedelic drugs are almost exclusively used by white people.
Are there any big problems you’re trying to tackle now in prepping the study?
Traditionally there has been no compensation for study participants, but it’s needed for this study.
Another layer is paying via direct deposit vs. cash and getting the university on board.
How do you send someone back into the trauma you’re trying to heal.
How do you support people in the study?
Support them as much as possible during the study.
Continue to follow-up with people after the treatment is over.
There is a lack of people of color in the therapy field, especially MAPS.
Often people of color don’t have a good experience with white therapists.
Why do you think there aren’t very many people of color in psychedelics?
People of color haven’t had the same advantages to become therapists.
It’s not safe to talk about substances when your license is on the line.
Culturally, psychedelics haven’t played as big of a role with people of color.
What does an ideal training model look like for you?
Watching the videos of people getting well was a big game changer.
The training needs a fuller understanding of what people from other ethnic and cultural groups need.
Monica is altering the training to be more relatable.
Talk about enrollment.
They have people at all different stages right now.
They have about 18 people total who have gone through the stages.
They still have to follow the guidelines of an indexed trauma to be accepted.
How big is your team right now?
Three therapist pair teams.
A few other people who assist in various ways.
Several people are doing double-duty.
How can the psychedelic community be more inclusive of people of color?
Make some close friends who are not white.
Do you have any fantasy projects you’d like to see play out?
Start a master’s program with a specialty track in minority mental health and psychedelic therapy.
All scholarships for people of color.
Any advice you’d give to a young person or professional?
There’s a lot of work to be done and we need enthusiastic minds.
Change won’t happen overnight or be easy, but it’s worth it.
Be involved in the community
Episode Quotes
The psychedelic community is a very, very white community – most people of color haven’t had an experience with psychedelics.
Ultimately, psychedelics and psychotherapy will be an accepted, licensed form of treatment.
About Monnica Williams
Monnica Williams, Ph.D. is a board-certified, licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in cognitive-behavioral therapies. She is an Associate Professor in the Department of Psychological Sciences at the University of Connecticut, and Director of the Laboratory for Culture and Mental Health Disparities. She is also the Clinical Director of the Behavioral Wellness Clinic, LLC in Mansfield, Connecticut, and she has founded clinics in Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania.
Will Siu, MD, DPhil
I grew up in southern California, where I completed college at UC Irvine and medical school at UCLA. Midway through medical school, I pursued research interests at the National Institutes of Health in Washington, DC and ultimately completed a doctoral degree at the University of Oxford. After finishing medical school I moved to Boston to complete my psychiatry residency at the Massachusetts General and McLean Hospitals, after which I continued to work for two years while faculty at Harvard Medical School. I moved to New York City in 2017 where in addition to having a private practice, I am a therapist on clinical trials using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to treat PTSD.
In this episode of Psychedelics, Kyle and Joe talk with Daniel Greig. Daniel is a student at the University of Toronto and psychedelic community organizer working with CSSDP and the Toronto Psychedelic Society.
We go all over the map but some notable things discussed in this episode include:
Measuring wisdom
Mindfulness
The promise of psychedelics
Future research opportunities
How friendly the University of Toronto is to psychedelic research
Interesting philosophical overlaps with psychedelics and occultism
and much more!!
Show Notes:
How did you get involved in researching psychedelics?
He never had to hide or be discreet about his research interests.
People are actually interested in his research work.
Canada just legalized marijuana countrywide.
He started experimenting with psychedelics when he was around 18.
He was able to feel positive emotions again after psychedelics.
Are there any recent studies that have you excited?
There was a publication in 2017 that looks at the role of mental imagery under the influence of LSD.
Daniel is interested in “what is the function of the imagination.”
What you get on LSD is similar to what happens during REM dreaming.
We’re not very in touch with our imaginative experiences.
How are you viewing mystical experiences?
Mental imagery is just reverse perception.
Mental imagery begins in higher processes and sends information down.
We share the faculty and functions of imagery with other animals.
How can you engage in some of this mental imagery?
There’s a process called active imagination.
Practicing active imagination helps you make the most of imagistic experiences.
It can be helpful to have someone else guide you through the images.
The most important thing is – is it effective?
Do you think what’s happening on the physiological level in the mind is a therapeutic part of psychedelics or imaginative?
It’s different for everybody.
For people with depression, it’s important to get the physiological tuned up.
For others, it’s the imagination that unlocks other things.
The developmental line we should all be orienting ourselves toward is wisdom.
The relationship between rationality in psychedelics.
You have to ask is psychedelics make you more rational?
Mindfulness can be seen as a form of rationality that makes you open to information.
Daniel talks about the computational mind, the algorithmic mind, and the reflective mind.
Authoritarianism is related to people’s fear.
Can psychedelics promote irrational thinking?
Yes, it’s one of the dark sides of the unitive experience.
There’s the feeling that you really know what’s true, but you can’t really articulate it.
Don’t try to annihilate yourself so nature can flow through you, elevate yourself.
How can people get involved?
Follow your heart and don’t disguise what you want to do.
Be enthusiastic and also correct.
Try to emphasize academic rigor.
Episode Quotes
We’re very much detached from our own traditions here in the west.
Just imagining practicing something can have just as much of an effect of your performance than actually practicing it.
You have to bring your insights back into the community to be an effective member of society.
There’s a strong relationship between wisdom and psychedelics.
Without intervention, life will tend toward suffering.
Daniel is a student of Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto. His focus is on mysticism, magic and the psychedelic experience through the lens of psychology and neuroscience. Daniel also works with the Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy (CSSDP). He has also spoken at a number of conferences and educational events in Toronto on the subject of psychedelics and philosophy.
Psychedelic science and research has been getting a lot of mainstream media attention over the years and for good reason. The preliminary research suggests that psychedelics may be extremely beneficial in helping to treat mental health disorders and as tools for studying consciousness. As this research begins to hit mainstream channels, some people are left wondering, “How can I find a psychedelic guide or sitter?”
We, at Psychedelics Today, have been receiving a lot of requests from people asking for instructions on how to obtain illegal drugs or for us to connect them with people offering underground services. While we understand that many people are suffering and seeking psychedelic treatments, sometimes out of desperation for healing, it is not easy to provide advice. Unfortunately, because of the legal system and the current laws in The United States, we are unable to help you on either of these fronts.
With that stated, we can provide some general advice for those looking for alternatives or legal options. Please take the time to conduct your own research as well.
First Things First
It is important to question what your intentions are and ask yourself why you may be seeking psychedelics either as therapy or as an experience.
Are you seeking a therapeutic experience because of a mental health issue?
Are you seeking a psychedelic experience for spiritual or religious reasons?
Are you just curious to know what the experience may feel like or what it is all about?
Are you looking for a recreational experience or to have fun?
Whatever your reasons or intentions are, it is important to continue to be self-reflective and question whether or not this is the right path to pursue. Also, be sure to spend time reflecting on the risk/benefit ratio.
While psychedelics are generally considered safe both psychologically and physiologically, there are some important considerations to take into account. These medicines and substances affect everyone differently based on the set and setting as well as a person’s own biology.
If you are seeking a psychedelic experience because you are suffering from a mental health issue or looking for psychological healing, it is important to evaluate whether or not it is the best option. The research is promising, but it also requires a lot of work, support, and follow-up treatment. Psychedelics are not always cure-alls or silver bullets.
If you are seeking this treatment out of desperation because you have read how positive or healing the experience can be, it is important to note that this change does not always happen right away. It may be important to find a psychedelic integration therapist to work with after or before. Also, ask yourself, “Have I tried other options?”
There are some powerful and effective somatic-based therapies that can be extremely cathartic and healing, such as breathwork, Somatic Experiencing, and others. A list of alternatives and somatic-based therapies can be found below in the “Experiential Therapies/Approaches” section. These therapies may be worth checking out if you have not looked into these therapies before and may also be a great first step to working with non-ordinary states of consciousness.
Exploring Legal Psychedelic Therapies and Other Alternatives
Experiential Therapies/Approaches
One thing that comes to mind is why are you looking for a guide? Is it to heal trauma or some sort of mental health issue? Are you looking for a spiritual experience or a way to reconnect with yourself? Depending on your intention, there may be other techniques and tools. It may not be as “sexy” as partaking in psychedelic work, but it is important to ask yourself, “What is my intention?”
There are some really powerful therapies and techniques that could potentially be helpful depending on the intention. In regard to therapy or addressing mental health issues, starting with a form of experiential therapy could be beneficial. You could look into some of these somatic approaches that could be helpful for dealing with trauma and other mental health issues before trying to seek underground work or travel outside of the country to work with psychedelic medicines.
Finding/working with a shamanic practitioner may be helpful for some as well. The Foundation for Shamanic Studies (founded by Michael Harner) is a good starting point for finding a practitioner to work with.
Legal Therapy Options
Ketamine-Assisted Therapy
Ketamine is an interesting substance and has recently been used to help treat depression. There are ketamine clinics throughout the United States that provide treatment for depression and other mental health issues. If you are interested in learning more about ketamine-assisted therapy, check out a few of our episodes covering the topic.
Cannabis-Assisted Psychotherapy
While many people do not think of cannabis as a psychedelic, some are exploring the therapeutic potential of cannabis in a legal and therapeutic setting. There are not many clinics operating with this protocol, so it may be hard to find, but as cannabis becomes legalized in more states for medicinal use and recreational use, this may become more accessible. Here are three resources that we know of so far for cannabis-assisted psychotherapy.
Did you know that when cannabis is used intentionally and skillfully, it is psychedelic and mimics other psychedelic medicines? Our participants commonly report experiences quite similar to MDMA, Psilocybin, Ayahuasca and even DMT. Cannabis is also safe, and legal to use in Colorado in this way. As the first organization to facilitate legal psychedelic cannabis experiences in Colorado, beginning in 2014, Medicinal Mindfulness has an incredible track record of keeping our clients safe and creating profound, life changing psychedelic experiences.
Conscious Cannabis Experiences are perfect for people who are curious about psychedelics but don’t know where to start. They’re also great for experienced practitioners seeking to deepen their psychedelic practice. As trauma informed practitioners, we also work with individuals who seek deep, transformational healing. As guides, we work with creative explorers of consciousness and complex problem-solvers, pushing the edges of what is possible.
Innate Path: Ketamine and Cannabis-Assisted Psychotherapy
Innate Path, located in Colorado, is exploring the potential of cannabis-assisted psychotherapy and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. As mentioned on their site, “Cannabis can be a powerful catalyzer of therapeutic process.”
Innate Path combines somatic processing with ketamine or cannabis assisted work, which is a unique bottom-up approach to psychedelic-assisted therapy.
Sara Ouimette Psychotherapy, located in Oakland, CA, offers psychotherapy, psychedelic integration services, and cannabis-assisted psychotherapy. As stated on Sara’s page:
When used in a particular way, cannabis can actually amplify or exacerbate your internal experience. You can become more aware of tightness or soreness in your body. Emotions are heightened; senses are more acute. You may have access to thoughts, fears, and feelings that are normally out of reach. You may even enter a trance-like state and “journey.” In these ways, cannabis can help deepen your therapy process.
One way to find a psychedelic sitter/guide is to participate in clinical research. Check out the following for more information.
Clinicaltrials.gov: This is a database of clinical studies from around the country and around the world. You can use this database to search active clinical studies on psychedelics and to search for recruitment opportunities. Just perform a simple search for “psychedelic” or anything else that you may be looking for in the search box. You can filter your search option and only search studies that are currently open for “recruitment.”
This option is not always available to everyone because of the cost of travel, accommodations and other expenses. While we understand attending a retreat or center in another country is not accessible for most, it is one of the few legal options for participating in this work. We advise doing extensive research including interviewing the retreat staff/owner and past guests before committing to international travel.
One site that we recommend for finding retreats or reviews is the Psychedelic Experience. While this site is still growing, this may be a great starting point for research. Another popular site is AyaAdvisors.
Psilocybin Retreats
Traveling to another country to participate in this work is obviously not ideal, but the option exists. Mushrooms are legal in The Netherlands, Jamaica, and Brazil. Mexico has protection for traditional medicines, and mushrooms do fall in this category.
Ayahuasca Retreats
Ayahuasca has an interesting legal status in the USA, where many groups are offering sessions in various contexts and settings from religious ceremonies (Christian or shamanic), YMCA gyms, rural retreat centers, churches, etc. Ayahuasca is legal in some countries like Peru and Ecuador. Ecuador provides licenses for shamans/facilitators while no other countries currently do.
Ibogaine Retreats
These retreats exist in Canada, Mexico and other countries around the world including where the plant is from and traditionally used – Gabon. Some facilities are very clinical and others are very traditional. Please know that Iboga and Ibogaine have some serious dangers that need to be carefully considered. There are also environmental concerns around iboga. Please don’t over-use this plant and if you go forward with it, please try to give back to the local environmental movements in Gabon.
5-MeO-DMT Retreats
We currently don’t advise people go on these retreats. The pressure on toad populations is severe and our culture’s desire for the toad venom may push this toad towards an endangered status. After interviewing toad scientists (herpetologists) we have concluded that it is not ethical to be participating in this “market”. If you feel very compelled, the more ethical path (at this point in history) is to work with synthetic molecules.
Holotropic Breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork
Breathwork is a term used to describe breathing techniques and systems that foster self-discovery, healing, and sometimes deeply emotional and physical cathartic releases. If you have been following Psychedelics Today, you have most likely heard us talk about this technique on the show. Breathwork is actually a legal and safe way to access a non-ordinary state of consciousness. There are various schools of breathwork, but the Breathwork technique that we are most familiar with is in the lineage of Holotropic Breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork. Holotropic Breathwork was created by Stanislav Grof, who was a pioneer in psychedelic research in the early years, and his wife Christina Grof. Breathwork can sometimes be on par with some psychedelic-like experiences.
It may not sound as sexy as psychedelic work, but do not be fooled, it can foster powerful shifts in consciousness. We have both had tremendously powerful healing experiences using Holotropic Breathwork, which plays a huge part in why we talk about it so regularly.
Conscious Breathwork and Conscious Cannabis | Medicinal Mindfulness
Medicinal Mindfulness is a Colorado-based organization that provides services in psychedelic integration, breathwork, and conscious cannabis work. Medicinal Mindfulness is a consciousness community/membership organization and education program that supports individuals and groups who choose to use cannabis and psychedelics with intention and skill. Through our Community Breathwork and Conscious Cannabis Events, we facilitate legal, accessible, safe and sacred psychedelic journey experiences that integrate the four primary paradigms of intentional medicine use: Creative, Scientific, Psychological & Spiritual. Our approach is Transpersonally aligned and somatically oriented.
You can learn more about the work at Medicinal Mindfulness on this episode of Psychedelics Today with the founder, Daniel McQueen.
Conclusion and Legal Notice
Finding an underground therapist to work with is extremely difficult because unfortunately, many of these substances are still illegal. This is why we often refer people to check out techniques like Holotropic Breathwork or to find a legal way to pursue this type of work. Remember, many underground guides are putting their professional careers and lives on the line providing psychedelic work.
We advise you to learn as much as you can before breaking any law as the consequences can be severe. If there are any questions that you think are serious enough to cause harm to yourself or others, please contact a legal professional before acting.
Psychedelics Today, LLC and its affiliates can not be held liable for any action you take. We are not doctors and therefore, cannot provide any medical advice. Please be responsible and seek professional attention when necessary.
Best of luck out there, and expect us to share as much as possible when the laws change.
A few important notes. This is an episode of an individual experimenting with powerful drugs to see if he can get any sort of relief from autism. In this case, it appears to have been successful. That said, this came with a substantial amount of risks, and people need to be aware. Please read the below bullets so you understand.
Autism is not what is treated. The thing being treated would be a symptom like social anxiety.
“The field of autism science includes a long and shameful history of quack treatments and parents taking desperate and harmful measures to “fix” their children. Autism is a spectrum of congenital and neurocognitive variants, and there are no published research data in support of any compound that can influence its course.” Alicia Danforth, PhD
Please do not administer these drugs to children with autism.
There are only two researchers investigating where MDMA and autism meet – Alicia Danforth PhD and Dr. Charlie Grob. A scientific paper will likely be available on this in the next few months. Expect to see more here.
These drugs have not been shown to cure or treat autism, but in some cases, just like with neuro-typical individuals, some have seen meaningful changes.
Even if changes are noticed the person is still autistic no matter how many high doses of psychedelics they take.
Obtaining pure drugs is very difficult if not impossible in black markets.
Verifying purity will require the resources of mass spectrometry from organizations offering these services like Energy Control or Ecstasy Data
Providing unsafe, dirty or compromised drugs to people can cause serious harm or death.
If you are planning to use MDMA to alleviate some suffering on your own, please wait or don’t.
Do substantial research and have skilled people available to help.
Thanks to Alicia Danforth for helping us understand the nuance’s in this area.
..autism is a genetically determined cognitive variant. It’s pervasive, and it affects the whole person, not just the brain. No chemical compound has been shown to treat, cure, or alter the course of autism. However, for some people, substances like MDMA can help them manage symptoms such as anxiety, social anxiety, and trauma effects. – Alicia Danforth, Ph.D
Introduction
Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Jon and Dre of the Voices in the Dark podcast out of England. The discussion addresses treating symptoms of autism with MDMA and LSD, what types of doses were used, and how to in part do it safely. Note there are always risks with any kind of drug. Learn the basics over at our Navigating Psychedelics course.
3 Key Points:
A lot of autism is sensory overload. As far as emotions are concerned, “we “see potentially too many things in other people’s faces.” – Dre
A good range for MDMA dosages is between 100mg and not going over 200mg.
125 micrograms per drop of liquid LSD, and not going above 250 micrograms is recommended.
Show Notes
Jon’s first psychedelic experience shifted his academic career path and helped him to deal with depression.
Dre first tried MDMA as a first step and it unlocked emotional empathy.
Sensory overload is a lot of autism according to Dre.
Jon’s experiences with MDMA made him feel like himself without the fear and the worry.
MDMA and LSD at the same time didn’t feel as emotional when combined to Jon.
125 micrograms per drop of liquid LSD, and not going above 250 micrograms is recommended.
Democratising psychedelic therapy is where Joe would like to see the industry go.
Jon is against the fetishizing of any particular concept of belief system in its totality.
Jon is excited that he is starting to see more types of research on LSD/MDMA and autism.
Dre’s experiences have shifted his autism by feeling that he has a foot in both worlds to know how living without it feels in his mind.
At Voices in the Dark, we bring you powerful, mind- and soul-expanding conversations about real life psychology, philosophy, psychedelics, spirituality, social dynamics and much more.
We’re a podcast, a blog, and a community of likeminded individuals who want to become the best versions of themselves. We’re dedicated to never stop Learning How To Human.
Our mission is to entertain, provoke, inform, and make you question everything you think you know.
DRE
A disturbingly quick study in most fields, Dre’s autism made learning people more of a challenge. The works of Robert Greene shone a light on the otherwise deeply confusing world of other people’s psyches, transforming the world around him into something which finally made sense.
JON
After spending far too many years in educational institutions, Jon got a PhD in History but is now finally learning something about the real world and the people in it. He always felt that science and scholarship needed more dick jokes and is on a mission to redress that balance. He writes, talks, travels, sings, and has a problematic relationship with cake and coffee.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe discuss professionalism in the psychedelic field. It has been brought to our attention that there are a number of people out there doing unprofessional things. As this field continues to develop and grow, it is important to be aware of what professionalism could look like, what self care, ethics, and boundaries look like in this world that we are all actively developing.
This episode is about raising the topic of professionalism in a new growing field rather than providing answers. We all need to be self-reflective in our development and question whether or not harm is being done by certain practices.
Have any thoughts, comments, or feedback? Leave them below or send us an email!
In light of festival season, we are offering a $30 off coupon for our online store with every purchase of our course, Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care and Integration throughout the month of June. If you are a student, please email us with your university email address to receive a special discount!
Joe and Kyle will also be offering some special live online course options. If you want to stay up-to-date about these offerings, sign up for our email list.
If you’re interested in learning more about DMTx, you can enroll in the DMTx 4-week Psychonaut Training. Proceeds go towards the DMTx project.
Download In this 88th episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Mike Brancatelli of the Mikeadelic podcast. After returning from a three-month Amazonian ayahuasca sojourn, Mikeadelic himself shares information about this extraordinary experience, how he has gotten involved in psychedelics and his journey.
Show Notes:
● Mike Brancatelli spent his three-month trip in Peru at the Temple of the Way of Lights with their residency program in the heart of the Amazon jungle during an ayahuasca retreat.
● Mike was previously doing stand-up comedy in New York City with his friend Dave Smith called “Part of the Problem.”
● Mikeadelic the podcast began in the spring of 2016.
● Drinking ayahuasca will produce an effect on you, especially when coupled with ceremony and healing songs.
● During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
● He feels passionate about ending the war on drugs and the prison industrial complex.
● You can remain filled with passion and compassion without being emotionally attached. Sit with your feelings without letting them control how you respond.
● The information overload of media drowns your spirit.
● A morning routine with meditation is helpful to get centered and focused for the rest of the day.
● The Netflix TV series “Wild Wild Country” is a true story about a controversial cult leader claiming to enlighten people.
● “Enlightenment Now” is a book about the enlightenment philosophy “science, reason and humanism”. It is a contemporary take on that philosophy – you could call Pinker’s take a Modern Enlightenment philosophy. Steven Pinker wrote the book. Joe Moore, suggests it and found out about it from the Bill Gates’s.
● “The Internet of Money” Volume 1 and Volume 2 by Andreas M. Antonopoulos is another interesting read suggested by Joe Moore.
● Before ayahuasca use, listen to your heart to understand why you want to try it.
3 Key Points:
1. During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
2. It is incredibly brave to be willing to confront your stress and be willing to stare into your soul and slay your demons.
3. Remain passionate, compassionate, and acknowledge the problems in the world, but don’t stay emotionally attached to them. Become mindful of how you respond.
Download Joe Moore interviews Britta Love, a passionate writer and sex educator based in New York City. Britta shares about the overlap of sexuality and psychedelics, her field of consciousness and embodiment studies, and dealing with the psychedelic patriarchy. She shares her desires to diversity the field and make supporters he safe and supported.
Quotes
We have to be OK with the fact that as we get confronted by the internalized racism and patriarchy and privilege that our psychedelic sub-culture carries, that its going
to be a little messy for a while, and we are all going to have to feel uncomfortable at times.
Giving up your privilege is the ultimate psychedelic trip. There is something about that surrender that’s really deep.
If you are someone who does what we call holding space or facilitates in someway, to actively hand that power back as often as possible, when you realize someone is trying to give it to you it, is a really powerful meditation.”
Show Notes
● Britta Love talks about sexual abuse stories that were discussed on a
panel on psychedelic patriarchy she participated in.
● In Britta’s anti-racist work, whenever she starts to feel uncomfortable, she recognizes that that discomfort is not as bad as what it must feel like to get oppressed by systemic racism.
● Author Robert Anton Wilson’s idea of “reality tunnels” is that we all have our B.S. (Belief System). What if we could flip between belief systems and be more
flexible and be more literate with reality and open-minded.
● Britta speaks about a healer who was sexually abusive to a woman she knows.
● A woman was raped by a male nurse and she was strong-armed to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
● The psychedelic community needs more diversity, more women and people of color to balance out the equality of voices.
● We need healthy models of sexuality to express sexual energy in a positive and constructive manner to get rid of sexual aggression and power dynamics.
● We are too willing to hand over our power to healers and shamans. We can become our own healers when we are in safe environments.
● Psychedelic therapy can be demystified and taught, and doesn’t have to remain esoteric with a hierarchy of privilege structures.
● Forming collectives of up to 100 people with different skills to form a safe, supportive, and collective village of awareness and wisdom.
● How do we create containers that are encouraging of and supportive of the deep reflection that is required to undo racism and patriarchy and systems of oppression require?
3 Key Points:
1. In Britta’s anti-racist work, whenever she starts to feel uncomfortable, she recognizes that that discomfort is not as bad as what it must feel like to get oppressed by systemic racism.
2. We are too willing to hand over our power to healers and shamans—we can become our own healers when we are in safe spaces.
3. Know your value and contribution within a group. People feel better when they are a giver.
Britta Love is a writer, somatic sex educator and multi-dimensional healer based in Brooklyn, NY. A graduate of the London School of Economics and Goddard College, she wrote her thesis in Consciousness Studies on the healing and spiritual potential of altered states, specifically those induced by conscious sexual practice and the ritual use of psychoactive plant medicines. She writes for Alternet, Psymposia and Reality Sandwich, gives talks and facilitates workshops in NYC, and blogs on sex, drugs and consciousness
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Stefanie Jones, the Director of Audience Development at the Drug Policy Alliance.
There are risks and benefits to all drug use.
Ultimately, you don’t want your teenager to use drugs, but if they do, you want to keep them safe and give them the right information.
The festival community needs to be so much more aware of opioid overdose and drug checking.
Show Notes
About Stefanie Jones
In her role, she oversees communication and outreach to specific communities on drug use and drug policy topics.
Personally runs the DPA music fan program.
She works on the Safer Partying program which has four goals:
Ending stigma against people who use drugs at festivals, concerts, and clubs.
Amending the illicit drug anti-proliferation act – aka The Rave Act.
Making drug checking happen in as many places and forms as possible.
Stopping the criminalization of party-goers.
The DPA is launching a pilot study at a school in Brooklyn with more honest and accurate information about drugs.
She’s been working for the Drug Policy Alliance for almost 13 years.
Stefanie Jones develops materials that bring us closer to drug policy reform.
She works with two different audiences:
Parents and educators
Drug users at events and concerts.
Drug education for teenagers and parents goes back a long way at DPA.
Marsha Rosenbaum wrote a very famous letter to her son who was about to go into school.
She wrote a booklet called “Safety First.” A reality-based approach to teens and drugs.
Stefanie Jones put together a harm reduction-based curriculum to be taught in schools.
Stefanie Jones is director of audience development at the Drug Policy Alliance, based in New York. In this role she oversees communication and outreach to specific communities on drug use and drug policy topics, including on novel psychoactive substances (NPS) and DPA’s youth drug education work. She personally runs the Music Fan program, which introduces harm reduction principles and drug policy alternatives to partygoers, public health officials and city nightlife regulators across the U.S.
In her prior role within the organization as an event manager, she produced four progressively larger editions of the biennial International Drug Policy Reform Conference, as well as numerous local policy conferences, fundraisers and coalition-building meetings.
Suppose you come to the end of your tether, can no longer cope, have a break-down, fall apart, go to pieces. To whom would you turn? Where would you go?
What alternatives do you have when you desperately need help, but have little, if any, say in the kind of help available?
When a person’s suffering becomes insupportable, to him or herself and to others, and yet persists, that person is in a state of distress. Once you find yourself in distress you come to realize that you are at the mercy of other people. Which of those people are you willing to be at their mercy, for better or worse? To whom are you willing to entrust your life? If you don’t happen to know anyone who comes to mind, then how will you go about finding someone you can trust? Do such persons exist?
Gnosis Retreat Center aspires to be such a place, by providing a safe place to be, when you are alone and afraid, confused, bereft, and not sure whom to turn to for help. Gnosis is a household that is populated by others like yourself, a refuge for those who are lost, afraid, bewildered, or simply seeking a fresh start, who may, if they choose, get over their ordeal and see it through, without jeopardy.
James Norwood, MA, is a doctoral student in the Clinical Psychology program at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, California. Norwood is presently working as a clinical intern, researching MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in concert with the Multi-Disciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, and is on the board of directors of Free Association Inc., a nonprofit organization that provides alternatives to treatment for people with altered experiences of reality in the Bay Area.
About Michelle Anne Hobart, MA
Michelle Anne Hobart,MA: is a practitioner of energy medicine and holistic health educator. She holds a BS in Biology, and an MA in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness. Currently, she is doing coursework in Integral Counseling Psychology at California Institute of Integral Studies. Michelle is an advocate for the Neurodiversity movement and a certified Spiritual Emergence Coach. She supports sensitive, empathic people whose gifts and experiences have been judged or oppressed and who are in the process of reclaiming and recovering their self-care, power, and personal truth. Michelle offers workshops, retreats, support groups, and one-on-one sessions.
Matt Kay, Co-Founder of the East Coast Float Spa, joins Kyle on this episode of Psychedelics Today. This is another experiential episode where Kyle gets to float and report on his experience. Kyle and Matt also talk about the benefits of floating, the history, and how Matt got involved in the float business. We hope you enjoy this episode! Let us know what you think below in the comment section.
Mission of East Coast Float Spa
Nothing too complicated: At East Coast Float Spa, our mission is to help as many people as possible by providing Floatation Therapy in a modern, comfortable setting, and being welcoming to everyone! We maintain a strong commitment to our passion for health through our core values and having the distinction of being an all organic and natural Spa; which includes buying local and sustainable products whenever possible. This includes all of our soaps, shampoos, health products, cleaning supplies, food, drink, and anything else we can think of!
Dr. Ben Sessa is a writer, psychiatrist, and researcher working in the UK to start the first ever MDMA for alcohol addiction study. We have a very exciting discussion and even get Dr. Sessa’s first reaction to the idea of DMTx. We also explore Ben’s background and his experiences with psychedelics legally – Ben is one of the few people who has ever received MDMA, LSD, DMT, ketamine, and psilocybin in a legal research setting.
We hope you enjoy this episode! Leave a comment below and let us know what you think.
Dr. Ben Sessa, M.B.B.S., M.D., B.Sc., M.R.C.Psych., is a consultant child and adolescent psychiatrist working in adult addiction services and with custodial detained young people in a secure adolescent setting. He trained at UCL medical school, graduating in 1997. He is interested in the developmental trajectory from child maltreatment to adult mental health disorders. Dr Sessa is currently a senior research fellow at Bristol, Cardiff and Imperial College London Universities, where he is conducting the UK’s first clinical studies with MDMA-assisted therapy for the treatment of PTSD and alcohol dependence syndrome. In the last ten years he has worked on several UK-based human pharmacology trials as study doctor or as a healthy subject administering and receiving test doses of LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, DMT, and ketamine. He is the author of several dozen peer-reviewed articles in the mainstream medical press and has written two books exploring psychedelic medicine; The Psychedelic Renaissance (2012 and 2017) and To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic (2015). In speaking publicly at universities and medical conferences, Dr Sessa is outspoken on lobbying for change in the current system by which drugs are classified in the UK, believing a more progressive policy of regulation would reduce the harms of recreational drug use and provide increased opportunities for clinical psychedelic research. He is a co-founder and director of the UK’s Breaking Convention conference.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe talk CBD, ketamine, terpenes, floating, psychedelic education and much more! This conversation is a little different than our normal episodes, but we wanted to share some things that are going on here at Psychedelics Today, such as exploring our recent sponsorships for the show. Please let us know your thoughts about this! Our goal is to keep this podcast sustainable, as well as help promote those who are doing great work directly or indirectly with the psychedelic community.
If you enjoy the show and want to support in another way, donating to our Patreon is a great option!
Thanks for listening!
The Pharmacology of Cannabis Cannabinoids and Terpenes by Dr. Ethan Russo
The only hemp extract company that offers full purity and potency tests on our website for every batch of our products.
All of the hemp extracted is grown using organic methods in CO using only sun, soil, and water
Legal to ship to everywhere in the US aside from SD
Sponsor: EntheoZen
About TransZen
TransZen is an all natural mood enhancement and stress support supplement designed to:
-fill in nutritional gaps that may be causing low mood
-promote neurotransmitter production such as serotonin and dopamine
-maintain a healthy inflammatory response in the brain
-promote the repair and regeneration of brain cells.
-It consists of 17 scientifically-studied ingredients including vitamins, minerals, amino acids and potent plant extracts.
-Works by providing your body with the raw materials it needs to balance the nervous system.
-It is made in a USA facility that is certified by the FDA as having Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) and third-party tested.
**Can not ship outside of the U.S.
Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care & Integration
What is breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork? Kyle and Joe talk about the components and mechanics of breathwork and share some personal experiences. Breathwork is a topic that is brought up often on Psychedelics Today, so here is a more in-depth discussion about what it is. The form of breathwork that Joe and Kyle are trained in is Transpersonal Breathwork. More about this practice below.
Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork is an applied, practice-linked philosophy that uses the method of Stanislav Grof’s Holotropic Breathwork as a modern shamanic practice for self-discovery through cathartic re-experience of events from a person’s biographic history and the process of birth, as well as the potential apprehension of archetypes and events in the cosmos.
The experiential aspect of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork uses a combination of group process, intense breathing, evocative music, body work, and expressive drawing.
The term “transpersonal” refers to those experiences where our sense of self-identity expands beyond our personal biography and ego boundaries and transcends the usual limitations of time and space. These experiences facilitate deeper understanding of ourselves, our relation to others and our place in the universe. They help us gain increased comfort in daily life and a spiritual intelligence that fosters calm and optimism amidst the difficulties of the world.
Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork draws on the work of William James, Carl Jung, Abraham Maslow, Stanislav Grof and others. Grof is a pioneering psychedelic researcher, investigator of exceptional human experiences and cofounder of the transpersonal psychology movement. Together with his wife Christina Grof, he developed Holotropic Breathwork, an inspiration of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork, Integrative Breathwork and other methods. In his book The Holotropic Mind, Grof describes Holotropic Breathwork as a seemingly simple process with “extraordinary potential for opening the way for exploring the entire spectrum of the inner world.”
5 Components of Breathwork
Intense Breathing – Deep circular breathing with a minimal pause in between the in and out breaths. There is no “right” technique, but to intensify and deepen one’s breathing.
Evocative Music– A music setlist is created to help drive the breathing session. The music is typically all instrumental with no distinguishable language. There are often times when music with foreign languages will be used because of the lack of context. The music setlist is around two to three hours long.
Focused Bodywork – Emotional energy can become stuck in the body. To help assist with stuck emotional or physical energy, bodywork is performed to help release the energy. Bodywork can also be in the form of support by offering a hand to hold.
Expressive Drawing – After the breathwork session, participants are asked to create a mandala or drawing. This helps to process the experience without language or words and can be very symbolic. This process helps to integrate the experience.
Group Process– We are social creatures. As Lenny Gibson states, “we are the descendants of successful tribes.” We need one another to survive in the world. The group helps to form a safe container for participants to dive deep into their psyche and being. The group holds the space for a healing process to occur.
Links & Notes
Dreamshadow: Holotropic Breathwork, Personal Development, and Transpersonal Education
Caitlin Thompson, the founder of EntheoZen, joins us on Psychedelics Today to share her healing story, her interests in psychedelics, and the supplement company that she started. Caitlin is also involved in the psychedelic community – she hosts events for the Aware Project San Diego and is a Kambo practitioner.
After struggling with her own depression and anxiety, Caitlin founded EntheoZen. She applied her background in neuroscience, diving deep into the scientific literature and discovered the importance of nutrition in brain and mood health. She created a scientifically-supported line of products that nourish, resource and balance the nervous system to promote a happy, healthy mind.
Caitlin uses EntheoZen as a platform to provide informative resources and tools to empower people to take their mental wellness into their own hands in a natural and sustainable way. EntheoZen provides educational media on cutting-edge wellness modalities including nutrition, herbs, meditation, psychedelics, neurofeedback training, kambo, and float tanks. Caitlin is a researcher and advocate in the psychedelic medicine movement, using EntheoZen to support research and promote awareness of psychedelic therapies as effective psychiatric interventions.
EntheoZen is a nutritional supplement company based in San Diego, CA. It was launched in 2014 by Caitlin Thompson. At EntheoZen, our goal is to contribute to the practice of using safe and natural ways to balance brain chemistry and promote brain health and a happy mood. Blending neuroscience and holistic nutrition, we believe that the mind, body, and soul need the proper resources to stay balanced and lively. Our products are based on proven scientific principles and target specific mechanisms & issues related to mood disorders based on scientific literature. When the brain has access to the raw materials it needs to repair and function optimally, it can often heal and regulate itself.
About TransZen
TransZen is an all natural mood enhancement and stress support supplement designed to:
-fill in nutritional gaps that may be causing low mood
-promote neurotransmitter production such as serotonin and dopamine
-maintain a healthy inflammatory response in the brain
-promote the repair and regeneration of brain cells.
-It consists of 17 scientifically-studied ingredients including vitamins, minerals, amino acids and potent plant extracts.
-Works by providing your body with the raw materials it needs to balance the nervous system.
-It is made in a USA facility that is certified by the FDA as having Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) and third-party tested.
After struggling with her own battle with depression and anxiety, Caitlin Thompson applied her background in neurobiology and dove into the cutting edge scientific literature on mood disorders and mental illnesses. This led her down a health rabbit hole, realizing that Lyme disease, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, microbiome dysbiosis and emotional trauma were at the root of her and many others’ depression. After successfully improving her own health, Caitlin founded her nutritional supplement company, EntheoZen in 2014. Caitlin now uses EntheoZen as a platform to spread information about modalities and tools to empower others to heal and achieve optimal mental wellness. Caitlin also works in the psychedelic field advocating for psychedelic research and education around their implications in mental wellness and autoimmune conditions. Caitlin is also a certified Kambo frog medicine practitioner based in San Diego CA.
The use of heroin and abuse of opiate pain-relievers has reached an all-time high in the USA. The addictive nature of these drugs has left us scrambling for treatment options that can offer us freedom from this epidemic.
The fact is, traditional treatments don’t work for everyone, and many are starting to look for more effective alternatives. Treatment that results in long-lasting sobriety is different for each individual.
When a traditional method isn’t working, it may be time to consider something new. Ibogaine is one such treatment, and the rise in opiate addiction has led to an increased interest in this alternative treatment for opiate and heroin addiction.
Iboga and Ibogaine
Ibogaine is just one of the many alkaloids found in the Tabernanthe Iboga shrub. Raw Iboga is one of the most powerful psychedelic plants in the world and has been used for its profound spiritual effect on those who experience it.
Iboga plant and Ibogaine molecule. Photo: Samwise – via Chacruna.net
This is why, for centuries, the Bwiti religion of Africa have been using Iboga as a way to induce introspection and a higher self-awareness.
In the early 1900s Ibogaine was extracted from the Iboga root and used by athletes, in very small doses, as a stimulant. At the time, Ibogaine was used because of the way that it excites certain pathways within the brain.
But in the 1960s, all of that changed.
Ibogaine as an Addiction Treatment
Howard Lotsof was suffering from an addiction to heroin when he tried Ibogaine for the first time in 1962. He was 19 years old and experimenting with any substance he could find.
Hours after trying the Ibogaine, Lotsof had an epiphany—he had not taken opiates for almost a day, yet, he had no withdrawal symptoms.
Ibogaine had allowed Lotsof to break his heroin addiction with just one dose. He knew immediately that these implications could have a massive impact on others who were struggling with heroin and opiate addiction.
But, given the importance of this conclusion, Lotsof realized he needed to perform further testing. So, he rounded up a few of his opiate and heroin-addicted friends, gave them the Ibogaine, and the results were stunning—none of his friends went into withdrawal.
This was the beginning of Ibogaine treatment for addiction. As Lotsof introduced more and more studies on the effects of Ibogaine on withdrawal, it became a real point of interest for scientists who were looking for more effective ways to help addicts beat their dependence.
Unfortunately, this also came at a time when the US government began making psychoactive substances illegal. Ibogaine was classified as a Schedule 1 drug, putting it in the same class as the drugs that it was meant to treat. It also made it very difficult for scientists to study its positive effects on addiction.
Lotsof was forced to study Ibogaine and treat addicts in Europe, where he founded the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance. He worked hard to try and change the laws in the USA and other countries, but, unfortunately, lacked the resources he considered necessary to do so.
Ibogaine has a unique effect on the chemical levels in the brain.
When the addict begins using opiates, these drugs release massive quantities of chemicals that plug into the brain’s neurotransmitters.
The brain becomes addicted to these high levels of pleasure-inducing chemicals, changing the way that the brain would normally function.
Because of these addictive adaptations, when the supply of drugs is cut off, the brain goes into a frenzy. Depression, seizures, and other symptoms are often the result. This is what we call withdrawal.
Ibogaine has the ability to work on the chemical receptors in the brain. It repairs neurons in the brain that have been damaged due to opioid addiction. It also restores balance to the brain so that naturally produced chemicals can work properly to control feelings of pleasure and happiness.
This gives addicts a fresh start, and the ability to start focusing on changing their lifestyle, instead of just fighting withdrawals.
But Ibogaine doesn’t just treat the withdrawal symptoms, it also affects the brain on a psychological level.
Psychological Effects of Ibogaine
In many addicts, though not all, Ibogaine induces a dreamlike state.
Those who have experienced this state often say that Ibogaine made them face their fears, past traumas, and helped them conquer many of the underlying reasons that caused their addiction in the first place.
This kind of psychological clarity and introspection is unique to the effects of Ibogaine and psychedelic medicines.
This is also why Ibogaine has been recommended, by some, as a treatment for trauma and other mental conditions—such as depression, anxiety, and PTSD.
The psychedelic effects of Ibogaine have the ability to treat these mental issues in ways that therapy never could. Some describe it as taking a look at themselves from the outside in, finally being able to address the core of their problems and address the root cause.
Is Ibogaine Right for You?
Just like any other treatment method, Ibogaine requires close supervision from medical professionals. Because of the way Ibogaine reacts in the body, it can be dangerous. This is why it is recommended that Ibogaine treatment should be done in a medical setting.
Addiction is a deeply personal disease and one that requires a different type of treatment for every individual. Ibogaine is not for everyone. It’s important to look into all of your options and talk to your physician.
Sobriety is possible. Every individual deserves a happy and successful life. Take the time to study all of the treatment options available and make the right decision for you or your loved one.
About the Author
Aeden Smith-Ahearn was a massive heroin addict for 7 years. After trying every traditional treatment method available, he put his last hop into Ibogaine treatment. Now, he has been clean and sober for 5 years while also helping thousands of addicts find freedom through Ibogaine. He is currently the treatment coordinator for Experience Ibogaine treatment centers and works hard every day to help people find success and happiness in life.
Download Emanuel Sferios joins us to talk about his upcoming film “MDMA The Movie” along with the founding story of Dance Safe.
Emanuel has a fascinating story that includes.
Humble beginnings
Lots of media attention
Huge amounts of fundraising for harm reduction
A film that is going to be incredible. Check out the trailers below!
MDMA was one of the last drugs that the old guard anti drug US government worked to smear with disinformation and outright lies, using outlets like Oprah and more to stain MDMA’s reputation. While Ophra’s media empire has now come around a bit, MDMA continues to hold parts of the social stigma that Oprah helped to give it. Emanuel tells the story here with on the ground details in ways that Kyle and Joe haven’t heard before.
We hope you love it!
If you enjoyed this episode you may love these other podcasts.
If you maintain a drug involved premises, you can be liable
“Massives” – Testing at massives – early raves – huge lines
Reducing harm by drug decriminalization
Cognitive liberty for adults
Gas chromatography & Mass spectrometry
Want to learn more about psychedelic harm reduction, safety, and integration? Sign up for our online course!
Find MDMA The Movie On Social Media
About Emanuel Sferios
Emanuel Sferios is an activist, educator, public speaker and harm reduction advocate. Founding DanceSafe in 1998, Emanuel was an early pioneer of MDMA harm reduction. DanceSafe has volunteer chapters in over two dozen cities across the United States and provides non-judgmental, peer-based drug education and drug checking (a.k.a., “pill testing”) services in the electronic dance music community. Emanuel also started the first public laboratory pill analysis program in 1999 which allowed ecstasy users for the first time to anonymously send tablets to a DEA-licensed laboratory for chromatography analysis. Originally publishing the results on the DanceSafe website, the program still exists today and is hosted at Ecstasydata.org.
Today Emanuel speaks at colleges and universities about MDMA, harm reduction, and drug policy. He lives in Grass Valley, California with his wife and two stepchildren.
Kyle and Joe talk with Shane LeMaster about ketamine as a therapeutic tool and also a tool for self-discovery and personal development. Shane shares some amazing stories, and we get to peel off some of the layers around ketamine. There are some amazing uses, and perhaps some therapeutic falling short of the mark in the ketamine world that we discuss. Hope you enjoy!
Shane is a past guest on the show and one of our favorites. You will really like his past episodes where we talked about peyote, treating veterans, Jiujitsu for PTSD and microdosing for athletic performance. (first – second)
Sign up for our course!
Show Topics/Discussion
Chemical effects
Lego world of the Ketamine experience
Hallucinogenic properties of Ketamine for Shane
Astral Projection
Therapeutic method. Music, Temp, Comfort, Safe setting, etc.
Not trauma work – getting to see all of reality as the machine as it is and his role in it.
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.
He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.
His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.
Keeping Tabs
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is designed to bring psychedelic experiences into the flow of your life and maximize their potential for helping you create the life you want to live
by Martin Prechtel
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Dr. Ben Sessa, M.B.B.S., M.D., B.Sc., M.R.C.Psych., is a consultant child and adolescent psychiatrist working in adult addiction services and with custodial detained young people in a secure adolescent setting. He trained at UCL medical school, graduating in 1997. He is interested in the developmental trajectory from child maltreatment to adult mental health disorders. Dr Sessa is currently a senior research fellow at Bristol, Cardiff and Imperial College London Universities, where he is conducting the UK’s first clinical st
