In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Mike Margolies of Psychedelic Seminars. In the show, they cover topics including guests and conversations from the Psychedelic Seminars, the decriminalization of all drugs, and the importance of allowing psychedelic use to be a part of training therapists for psychedelic therapy.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic Seminars is an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics.
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but the conversation on decriminalization of all drugs is rare, which is what’s really important.
Some companies (MAPS for example) allow the option to use MDMA as a part of their therapist training program while other companies who are training therapists for psilocybin therapy, don’t have the option to use it. This leaves the question, “Should the psychedelic experience be part of the psychedelic therapy training?”
The talks were on microdosing and the unknowns of microdosing
Just because there is no real harms taking a large dose of LSD, doesn’t mean there aren’t any harms taking a low (micro) dose of LSD frequently
Mike thinks that the term Jim Fadiman uses is its ‘sub-perceptual’, in that you have a noticeable effect on the mood, but no other way of noticing it
Decriminalization
Drug Policy tends to stay in the realm of psychedelics only
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but no one likes to talk about the decriminalization of all drugs, which is what’s really important
Poppy is not considered in decriminalize nature, which is selective nature decriminalization
It’s not a real decriminalization, it’s just a low priority for law enforcement
He’s been asking in his conversations, opinions on decriminalizing all drugs
Different drugs have different risk profiles
“Just because you’re not using criminal justice as your mechanism for reducing risks of drugs, doesn’t mean you do nothing. The last thing we want to do is add criminalization to those who are already suffering, this is why we should decriminalize all drugs” – Mike
Laws should be written in terms of what are you not allowed to do, not what you’re allowed to do
He is allowed to walk down the sidewalk, but not punch someone he walks past, but the law shouldn’t be to get a license for walking down the street so long as you don’t punch someone
The communities that are marginalized continue to be marginalized by the drug war
Psychedelic Therapy and Experience with Use
With MAPS, there is an option to do MDMA as a part of the training
With psilocybin, at least with Compass Pathways, there is not an option to use psilocybin. Mike says that’s a huge issue
When you scale treatment, there is the risk of losing the quality of care
“We aren’t going to solve the problems of our future by mass distributing psychedelics” – Mike
The fact that we have such mass amounts of widespread depression, means that we have a deeply ingrained systemic issue at hand
Psychedelics treat the symptoms, but we still need to fix the underlying cause
“If you are distributing psychedelics, but still exacerbating the same underlying issues, you now have the problem and solution in the same hefty package” – Mike
“Psychedelic experience is intrinsically something spiritual. How can you guide someone in spiritual practice if you haven’t experienced it yourself?” – Mike
“Inducing a state intentionally, and guiding someone through a process, its completely unethical to guide someone through a spiritual process that you haven’t been through yourself.” – Mike
New Economy
Burning man is not a barter economy, it’s a gift economy, where things are given without an expectation of receiving something in return
We are far from that economy
What if we had a world where instead of trying to extract value, we were trying to create value?
Since 2015, Mark has worked full-time in the psychedelic community, starting and contributing to a number of projects as an event and media producer, connector, and advisor. He is the Founder of Psychedelic Seminars, an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics. On the PsychSems stage, he has interviewed a range of leaders including bestselling author Michael Pollan, Dr. James Fadiman and Ayelet Waldman on microdosing, and therapeutic ketamine expert Dr. Raquel Bennett. He started the project in 2015 after returning to his home city of Baltimore to build community for open and honest conversations about psychedelics. The project now operates primarily out of the San Francisco Bay Area and livestreams globally. Through his psychedelic community work in Baltimore, he seeded the Baltimore Psychedelic Society. He has sparked and mentored similar Psychedelic Societies around the world from Washington DC to San Francisco to Portugal. He helped start the Global Psychedelic Network to connect them.
Dr. Carl Hart is neuropsychopharmacologist and Chair of Columbia University’s Department of Psychology. His research, which focuses on the behavioral and neuropsychological effects of psychoactive drugs in humans, has been published widely in academic journals, and Dr. Hart has discussed his research on numerous shows including Democracy Now!, The O’Reilly Factor, and The Joe Rogan Experience. His award-winning memoir, High Price: A Neuroscientist’s Journey of Self-Discovery That Challenges Everything You Know About Drugs and Society, charts Dr. Hart’s journey from childhood in a harsh Miami neighborhood to an academic life devoted to reframing society’s biased and harmful narratives around stigmatized drugs.
At the 2019 Psychedelic Science Summit in Austin, TX, Dr. Hart addressed a crowd of psychedelic enthusiasts about concerning language he’s noticed in psychedelic-focused conversations. In this interview, Dr. Hart explains how these narratives create a “psychedelic exceptionalism” that perpetuates harmful narratives around drugs like heroin, methamphetamine, and crack cocaine, by extension demonizing people who choose to use such substances. In these transitional times, Dr. Hart reminds us of the importance to hold healthy criticism while always maintaining focus as humanitarians.
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Sean Lawlor: In your speech, you were less gung-ho about this psychedelic renaissance than other people. This was partly due to something called “psychedelic exceptionalism.” Can you speak about this?
Carl Hart: This term refers to the perspective that psychedelics are somehow better and more useful than other classes of drugs like opioids or stimulants. I was just trying to remind people that these are all psychoactive substances. They interact on receptors in the brain to produce their effects, and we shouldn’t be treating some drugs as if they’re special while other drugs are somehow evil. Drugs all carry some risk, and depending on how you define danger, they fall on different levels of the spectrum of risk, and benefits.
Sean Lawlor: So, you’re responding to seeing people glorifying psychedelics while continuing to demonize substances that have been demonized since the War on Drugs, if not before?
Carl Hart: That’s exactly it. It’s great to be enthusiastic about your drug of choice. But remember not to vilify other drugs. That puts people at risk, and it marginalizes people. I don’t think anybody really wants to do that.
Sean Lawlor: Can you say more about how that puts people at risk?
Carl Hart: When people talk about heroin being evil or dangerous in generalized ways, it stigmatizes that drug and, by extension, people who use that drug. Then, we have increased penalties, and we view those people as being defective for even using that drug.
Sean Lawlor: A way of “othering” those people, putting them in a negative box.
Carl Hart: That’s right. We did that with crack, and we did that with that methamphetamine. But you look at MDMA versus methamphetamine, and the chemical structures are not that different. But we have wildly different narratives about them. It’s just not warranted.
Sean Lawlor: What do you see as the roots of this exceptionalism?
Carl Hart: I think people think that they’re being strategic. Folks who want to increase the availability of psychedelics for medicinal reasons, for recreation — I think they feel that if they associate with stigmatized drugs, then that stigmatizes their drug of choice. They’re playing a political game, a numbers game — you could say they’re calculating this. But there are people who are really suffering, who don’t have a choice to calculate, and no one’s given us the right to play with people’s lives based on politics. What’s wrong is wrong, what’s right is right, and it’s wrong to vilify drugs and people. No matter what.
That’s why I try to keep the focus on doing what’s right as a human being, as a humanitarian. It’s just wrong to vilify people for wanting to alter their consciousness and the particular drug that they use, especially when you’re doing the same thing with another drug. That’s just inconsistent with respecting other people’s humanity.
Sean Lawlor: I think a lot of people have seen friends and family die from opiates. You talk about how these deaths may be due to what they’re getting, how much fentanyl may be in there, etc. But if someone’s caught in cycles of addiction with drugs that have a higher overdose potential than, say, mushrooms, and a high dose of mushrooms could allow them to work on deeper issues fueling addictive cycles, how could that drug not be seen as more healing?
Carl Hart: Because there are all kinds of assumptions with that question that are flawed. First of all, it’s not up to me to decide what people choose to work on and what drug they use. If they choose heroin as opposed to mushrooms, that’s cool. That’s their decision as autonomous adults. And if we think heroin is uniquely more dangerous than mushrooms — well, if we’re talking about respiratory depression, yes, it certainly can be. But if we’re talking about paranoia at large doses, mushrooms are more dangerous.
When we look at the Swiss situation, with a regulated supply of heroin and all sorts of services, you don’t have the problems of overdose that we see in this country. So it’s not the drug. It’s the conditions under which the drug is being administered.
Now, we do have people in our country who are dying from heroin or opioid-related overdoses. That’s a fact. But that has more to do with the stigma and the social conditions under which the drug is being taken. I am wholeheartedly in support of dealing with those issues, which are not that complicated. We could have a regulated supply of heroin. We could check the mixture to verify that people don’t have an adulterated drug. With mushrooms, you’re less likely to have adulterants in your compounds than you are with opioids. That’s a problem, but not of the opioid itself. That’s a problem of our supply.
Sean Lawlor: How about the problem of what’s underlying people’s addictions in general?
Carl Hart: That’s a whole different issue, that we have to figure out why people are addicted. People are addicted for a variety of reasons — and when I say “addiction,” I mean the DSM criteria for substance use. Those criteria have to do with people’s inability to inhibit, their lack of responsibility skills, or the conditions under which these drugs are available or not available. It has more to do with all of those things than, again, the drug itself.
It’s true that opioids can produce a physical dependence, whereas other drugs are less likely to. But alcohol can produce a physical dependence that is deadly, and we do alcohol relatively well in this country. There are people who have problems with alcohol, but the vast majority of folks don’t. So, alcohol will remain legal.
Whether it’s a drug or an activity like driving a car, people can and will get in trouble. It’s crazy to think we’re somehow going to prevent all negative possible outcomes of some activity. We can certainly take steps to minimize it. And we do. And we could do the same thing with drugs like heroin.
Sean Lawlor: You said something during a panel that elicited a strong response. I believe your quote was, “Heroin made me a better person.” I’m curious what that meant.
Carl Hart: I don’t remember the context that I was saying that. But the point I was trying to make is simple. We have alcohol at receptions, for example, where alcohol functions as a social lubricant. The same can be true with a drug like heroin.
Many of these psychoactive substances people use make them less anxious, more magnanimous — all of these kinds of things. That’s not a shocking statement. It’s only shocking for people infected with the Puritanism virus. Anybody who knows anything about drug use, particularly with opioids, knows they can enhance positive social interactions, and that’s why many people take them.
Sean Lawlor: You’ve said that only 25% of people who use heroin are addicted, which is different than the instant-addiction cultural narrative we’ve inherited.
Carl Hart: Yeah. But still, you don’t want people to become addicted. And when I say addicted, I mean the DSM criteria, not just physical dependence. People who take antidepressants, for example, have physical dependency. They can’t abruptly stop after taking antidepressants for a number of years. They have to be weaned off. The same is true with opioids. So when I say “addiction,” I mean that the person is distressed by their drug use and the consequences of their drug use, and they have disruptions in psychosocial functioning.
That 25% still concerns me. But I think it has to do with the stigma associated with heroin. People have to hide their use and engage in tremendous risk because of how society sees heroin. In places like Switzerland, where heroin is available medically, you don’t see people engaging in disruptive behaviors to get it. They just go to the clinic and they get their daily doses. In many cases, these people work. They’re responsible members of society.
Sean Lawlor: If there’s a psychedelic correlate to these trends, I’d say it’s LSD. Microdosing is popular, but LSD carries the heaviest social stigma of any psychedelic. I hear far less people speak publicly about their use of it than mushrooms and MDMA, which have essentially been adopted as “good.” And LSD often appears at festivals, where you don’t know what you’re getting, and really bad stuff can happen.
Carl Hart: Exactly. You hit it on the head. We see that with all stigmatized drugs. People are more likely to take risks that decrease their likelihood of getting the drug they’re seeking, because people can replace them with more potent drugs. And that could be dangerous.
Sean Lawlor: Do you see any effort in this psychedelic community to combat psychedelic exceptionalism?
Carl Hart: I have to tell you, I’m always disturbed when people identify themselves as a “psychedelic community.” That seems fucking bizarre to me. When you have all of these psychoactive substances, and people are taking them for similar reasons of altering consciousness, and then you have a line — these drugs over here, these drugs over here — I just find it bizarre that people would even identify as such a thing.
Sean Lawlor: Have you noticed that delineation more than me saying it right now?
Carl Hart: Oh, yeah. I didn’t mean — you’re absolutely right. I’m just saying as a neuropsychopharmacologist, as somebody who’s interested in consciousness and having your consciousness altered by these substances, it just seems strange that people would have the audacity to include themselves in a single sort of community that delineates its boundaries in a way that excludes other people doing the same thing.
Sean Lawlor: Yeah, that very language is a kind of exceptionalism, aligning with a “community” that uses drugs that are becoming less stigmatized and more popular.
Carl Hart: Yeah. It’s very disturbing. It’s just inconsistent with being a humanitarian.
Sean Lawlor: I’m thinking about how the War on Drugs set regulations in place that have disproportionately affected people from particular areas or particular races who tend to associate with particular drugs, and how that’s created, institutional divisions.
Carl Hart: But it’s not necessarily the laws. It’s the enforcement of the laws. The laws can be enforced in a way that hits across the various dimensions of society. But the laws are not enforced in that way. The enforcement of the laws seems to focus on specific communities of color, so enforcement is the problem.
My expertise is in drugs, so I focus on that. But this is not unique to drug law enforcement. This is how we behave in this country in general. That’s why I try to help people to understand how their verbal behavior about one compound versus another contributes to a misperception that allows for disproportionate enforcement of the drug laws.
Sean Lawlor: What is your parting advice for people invested in this psychedelic renaissance?
Carl Hart: I would ask that people think about the language they’re using for substances they like versus their language for substances that have been vilified. I ask that people think about the narratives that have been built around crack cocaine and heroin versus the narratives built around drugs like psilocybin and MDMA, and how wildly they conflict. Whether people are using heroin or MDMA, they’re seeking to alter their consciousness. They’re seeking intimacy with partners. They’re seeking the same things.
Sean Lawlor: Thank you for your time, Dr. Hart. I figured some biases and assumptions would come through my questions, but hopefully representing them here can help dismantle them for others who read it.
Carl Hart: I hope so. Thank you for doing this. And if you just remind people to think about other people’s humanity in the same way they think about their own, this won’t be an issue. If they think of people as being equal to them, this is not a problem. We all make mistakes, and that’s fine. But once you remember that no matter who you’re dealing with, they’re another person who deserves the same kind of respect you deserve, then it becomes easy.
About the Author
Sean Lawlor is a writer, certified personal trainer, and Masters student in Transpersonal Counseling at Naropa University, in pursuit of a career in psychedelic journalism, research, and therapy. His interest in consciousness and non-ordinary states owes great debt to Aldous Huxley, Ken Kesey, and Hunter S. Thompson, and his passion for film, literature, and dreaming draws endless inspiration from Carl Jung, David Lynch, and J.K. Rowling. For more information or to get in touch, head to seanplawlor.com, or connect on Instagram @seanplawlor.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview previous guest of the show, Daniel Greig. In the show, he goes in depth into the meaning of enlightenment and previews the new book he is writing with Dr. John Vervaeke, The Cognitive Continuum.
3 Key Points:
Insight, flow and mystical experiences are all facets of working toward enlightenment.
Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality. It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life.
The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness. The most important part of having a mystical (psychedelic) experience is coming back into our bodies and developing better relationships with ourselves, others and the world.
Daniel is an educator, organizer and artist living in Toronto. He studied Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto, specializing in wisdom, consciousness, and spiritual belief and experience. In 2015, he founded the Mapping the Mind conference that occurs annually in Toronto, which raises much needed funds for psychedelic research. Daniel regularly host lectures and workshops, on topics in cognitive science. He is currently writing a book with Dr. John Vervaeke on the science of enlightenment, which will be published in 2020. When not contemplating the realm of the intellect, Daniel delves in the sonic perturbations of music, writing and producing progressive metal.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Chris Bache, author of LSD and the Mind of the Universe. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions and talks about his experience in the show.
3 Key Points:
Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions, but he says that pushing the edge of high dose and high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties. He does not recommend high dose sessions like he did.
The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves.
In the show, they discuss psychedelic therapy and the debate on whether or not therapists should have to have psychedelic experience to do the therapy. Chris believes that the level of experience a therapist has had will impact the type of support they will be able to give.
He was the professor of Religious Studies, sticking to his traditional life
He knew there would come a time for him to share his experiences with a larger audience
Chris says he’s always been locked into his body and his physical experience
He had no background in psychedelic states of consciousness
Protocol
He said you’re always working with a sitter and same context/setting
As the dosage increased, he began creating a more intense music playlist
Chris thinks music is very important for psychedelic sessions
Chris does not recommend working with high doses
“When you’re working with opening consciousness that radically, music has a tremendous effect, it has an amplifying effect by 5 or 10x than doing it without music” – Chris
Chris said he has experienced all the common layers of the psychedelic unconscious that’s talked about
Consciousness Levels
Chris experienced 4 different death/rebirths
Chris differentiated 5 levels of the universe
The first is at the personal mind, where an ego death happens
The second takes places at the collective mind, about species
The third level is an archetypal mind, the high subtle mind, moving beyond the species existence
The fourth level is causal mind, causal oneness, profound states of non-dual reality
The last is Diamond Luminosity, its absolute clarity, pureness
Psychedelic Therapy
Chris says that there is a certain level of support that one needs to truly let go of themselves and let go to the experience
He says that he thinks the level of experience will impact the type of support a therapist will be able to give
Subtle Level
The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves
Pushing the edge of high dose, high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties
Chris says he was very secret about his psychedelic use, his students didn’t know about it
But he said after he had gone deep and touched these different levels of consciousness, his students became alive
The deeper he went in his own work, the more it touched the students at a deeper level
Potency
Chris thinks that LSD is a little cleaner than other psychedelics
His basic sense is that psilocybin tends to be less evocative, disruptive
Ayahuasca is more disruptive in opening up to deeper levels
LSD is the most disruptive in opening people up to really deep levels of consciousness
With LSD is was less about his personal experience, and more about the collective unconscious experience
Realizations
With one of his experiences, he had seen everything in his whole life all at once
He then entered into archetypal experiences, the platonic domain beyond the time-space reality
The beings he ‘met’ were as large as universes, responsible for creating time and space
He went into ‘deep time’, different magnitudes of time experiences in a broader frame of reference (where we are in the history of time, what our future looks like)
He reached that diamond luminosity level only 4 times out of all of his LSD sessions
“If we keep this up, sooner or later, the totality of this consciousness is going to wake up” – Chris
“We are moving toward a collective wake up, it’s not a personal experience, it’s a collective experience. An evolution of our species.” -Chris
If Chris has one tip, is to let go of our fear of death, when we die, we go back home
After so many sessions, and not taking the time to stop to integrate, after years, his body was screaming for community, and he felt this deep existential sadness and felt as if he was just waiting to die
It took 10 years to integrate his deep exploration, and to finally feel okay and comfortable again in his body suit and in this life
The universe is an infinite ocean of possibilities, we will never reach the end
“The collective psyche is being cosmically stimulated by the trauma that we are entering into” -Chris
Christopher M. Bache is professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An award-winning teacher, Chris’ work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. Chris has written three books translated into six languages: Lifecycles – a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn – a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy and collective consciousness; and The Living Classroom, an exploration of teaching and collective fields of consciousness. His new book is Diamonds from Heaven ~ LSD and the Mind of the Universe (2019).
In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Addy, Licensed Mental Health Counselor out of Washington. In the show, they talk about the research and therapeutic use of Salvia.
3 Key Points:
Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports, although there are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant.
In a recreational setting, Salvia is usually smoked, but in the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method.
The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now. It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research.
Peter helped found the Yale Psychedelic Speaker Series
The main goal was to normalize talking about psychedelic research as research
Peter joined the pharmacology lab for his post doctoral research on Salvia
The team was mainly studying THC but were also studying Ketamine
He wanted to bring in MDMA and Psilocybin research
Peter attended The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
As a psychologist, Peter focused heavily on feedback and experience
Transpersonal Psychology
It all started when Peter stumbled across a dusty book in the library as a Freshman, States of Consciousness by Charles Tart The book talked a lot about meditation
Joe says he has been practicing non-drug transpersonal states (breathwork) for years
You can have a psychedelic experience without drugs, and you can also take psychedelics and not have the psychedelic experience at all, it’s not about the drug
“Everyone has an innate desire towards transcending who they are, moving towards wholeness, and personal and societal transformation” – Peter
“If I’m kind, then people around me are more likely to be kind, it’s about the transformation of groups and societies than about having a cool trick” – Peter
Salvia
“Psychedelic Assisted Psychotherapy is proven to do a lot of really good things, but it’s not the only way and it’s not necessarily the right way. There are wrong ways to do it, but not one culture owns this experience.” – Peter
“Having a healthy critique of science in the modern world is helpful because its a series of provisional truths, it’s a good tool to get closer to objective reality, but its not perfect, it’s all we have so far” – Joe
Peter says that art is an amazing tool as well
Verbal language is limiting, he has seen images that can convey an experience way better than words can
Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports
There are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant
There was going to be a bill to make Salvia illegal in 2008 or 2009
Now it’s just illegal for minors
Salvia Study
Peter recruited 30 people who had all used psychedelics
He used a controlled set, setting and intention
He used either a Salvia extract or just the unadulterated leaf
No one in the real world is using Salvinorin A, they are smoking the leaf or using extracts of the leaf
The participants smoked it when they desired, Peter was not enforcing the smoking
It was a very relaxed setting
Once the participants smoked, they then had an experience for 10 minutes, and then he came together with them and just listened to their experience
2 people got up and moved, the rest just sat there in the experience
Interoception (the inner feelings of your body) is the internal form of proprioception (the feeling of your body in space)
Every time you smoke something it is going to hit you quickly and be over quickly
By the time you realize what’s going on in a Salvia experience, you’re already on your way out
In the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method
Advice
The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now
It’s not easy to get funding for psychedelic research
Peter says if you do get funding, attach it to something else
MDMA research didn’t just begin to ‘see what it could help’, PTSD sucks, and there isn’t a whole lot that works to treat it, but MDMA does and it just happens to be a type of psychedelic
Peter is both a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Washington and a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oregon. He earned a PhD in Clinical Psychology from Sofia University in 2011, including certification in biofeedback and Process Oriented Psychodrama. There, he studied non-ordinary states of consciousness, holistic and all-encompassing views of a person, and ways that these experiences can transform a person and society. Peter then engaged in post-degree specialty training at Danville State Hospital, Yale University School of Medicine, and the Connecticut Mental Health Center. As faculty at Yale University he engaged in research and training. Some of his clinical training is in mindfulness-based therapies, Motivational Interviewing, and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He also discovered a passion for data management and security which he brings with him to his online therapy practice.
Sonoran Desert toads emerge from earthly tombs every year after the late summer monsoons roll in, which cause countless tiny ponds and lakes to form. Though most will evaporate in a few hours or days, toads lay eggs in the depths of these small water beds. Most of the tadpoles won’t last longer than the waters in which they are born, a few will become pollywogs then toads, ensuring survival for another generation.
Life in the desert is stark as it is. But these unique desert toads are currently facing a host of new threats, including climate change, habitat loss and — perhaps most dangerous — commodification. Bufo alvarius, the Sonoran Desert toad’s scientific name, is the only known animal source of 5-MeO-DMT, a popular chemical among psychedelic users. Unfortunately, poachers overharvest toads to feed the ever-growing market for this powerful substance. While the International Union for Conservation of Nature Red List of Threatened Species placed these toads in the lowest category of risk for extinction in 2004, the same report acknowledged they were virtually extinct in California. Scientists, conservationists, and artists are banding together to ensure the rest of the species avoids a similar fate.
Climate Change on Habitats
To understand how human-caused climate change could impact Sonoran Desert toads, we first need to look at potential effects on their home region. A 2012 study by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) predicted that the Southwest would continue to get hotter and drier. A 2018 National Climate Assessment bore out those predictions. This is bad news for toads, who already live near their physiological limits. More troubling was a 2017 report in Nature Climate Change, which predicted the probable decline of monsoons by 30 to 40 percent over the next century.
Thomas R. Jones, Amphibians and Reptiles Program Manager for the Arizona Game and Fish Department, believes parsing the impact of climate change from other threats and historical fluctuations is difficult if not impossible. This past summer he observed a decrease in toad populations at a site where they are normally abundant. “I think it’s a reasonable assumption to say if the monsoon gets squirrely and we have drier years, it will be rougher on summer breeding anurans — toads and frogs — like the Sonoran Desert toad,” Jones said.
Overdevelopment and the Destruction of Habitats
While climate change looms like ominous clouds in the distance, habitat loss is the single greatest threat to Sonoran Desert toads. According to a 2013 report from the USDA, 90 percent of riparian areas in Arizona and New Mexico converted to other land uses over the last century, ultimately turning habitats into agriculture fields or residential developments. At the same time, surface water was diverted from the few year-round rivers into massive reservoirs as aquifers pumped out groundwater in order to supply the region’s growing population and agricultural production.
These toads once thrived in farmland irrigation systems, too. But, due to the increasingly intense use of chemicals — both pesticides and fertilizers — and mechanization, they disappeared from some agriculture areas, such as the Southern California side of the Colorado River and the Imperial Valley.
Paved roads are also particularly deadly to these creatures. Toads go to pools that form on impermeable surfaces where water can more easily absorb through their skin. The hot spots for Sonoran Desert toads are lined with roads, often putting them in harm’s way. In fact, a 2010 study in Human-Wildlife Interactions estimated 12,264 amphibians died annually on roads in and around Saguaro National Park just west of Tucson, Arizona. Roads also hinder the toad’s range, causing a loss in gene flow, or genetic evolution, which negatively effects populations, according to Jones. “The number of animals that die on roads are just huge.”
Pop Culture, Money, and Psychedelic Tourism
The least understood threat is the impact of poaching and overharvesting for the 5-MeO-DMT market. Though Sonoran Desert toads can be legally gathered with appropriate licenses in Arizona, collecting them for the extraction of 5-MeO-DMT — which became a Schedule 1 substance in 2011 — is a federal crime.
In order to extract 5MeO-DMT, the toads must be agitated, which causes their glands to excrete poison. Then, it’s squeezed or scraped out. Robert Villa, president of the Tucson Herpetological Society (THS) and a research associate at the University of Arizona’s Desert Laboratory on Tumamoc Hill, is concerned about the harm this poses to toad survival.
“I think what’s going to happen over time is that if intensive collection continues,”Villa explained,“it’s going to create a vacuum in these areas, what is also known as a mortality sink.”
Some argue that indigenous communities have used the drug for centuries. But Villa points to flaws in this argument, saying that some advancing this position may have a vested financial interest in doing so. Some scholars have cited the discovery of toad bones at shamanic burial sites. If true, it could legitimize the toad extraction industry, helping businesses grow at the expense of the toad populations. For doctors or others selling 5-MeO-DMT, this would be a boon.
But Villa noted the bones were from a different species of toad that doesn’t produce 5-MeO-DMT. He is not convinced by the evidence that indigenous people historically used the toad as a source of 5-MeO-DMT. “We couldn’t decipher it from residues. There’s research that discovered cacao residue in pots in New Mexico,” Villa explained. “What we see today is a blatant misuse of indigenous culture to do it.”
We may never know who first smoked 5-MeO-DMT for sure, but one of the earliest academic papers citing its psychedelic properties appeared in a 1967 issue of Biochemical Pharmacology. Then, knowledge about how to extract, prepare, and consume 5-MeO-DMT from toads was first widely propagated by a pamphlet written in 1983. The document contained detailed instructions, diagrams, and background information. Its author was listed as Albert Most, a pen name, though multiple people throughout history have claimed to be Most.
Though its authorship is disputed, the pamphlet’s role in raising awareness about the drug is not. Following its publication, groups like the Church of the Toad of Light started promoting 5-MeO-DMT consumption. Its proponents claim the drug can help with depression and anxiety, which was supported by a study in The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse earlier this year. Advocates also claim it helps with recovery from substance abuse.
Unfortunately, a number of bad actors are harming toads and humans by providing the toad excrement for consumption. An open letter published earlier this year accused two doctors who facilitate 5-MeO-DMT use, Octavio Rettig and Gerry Sandoval, of defrauding, harming, and even causing patients to die. Numerous self-proclaimed shamans administer the drug illegally throughout the US and other countries. One such person was identified as Shaman Dan. He is alleged to have led a series of 5-MeO-DMT parties at the residence of a woman in Southern California, who we’ll call Christina (not her real name) for the sake of anonymity.
Christina was connected to Shaman Dan by her mentors, who recruited her into Amway, a multi-level marketing company accused of being a pyramid scheme by consumer advocates, academics, and newspapers such as the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. She described Shaman Dan as a white male under 25-years-old who formerly sold energy drinks through a multi-level marketing company. He told Christina that he was trained in Mexico by a woman named Shaman Sandra. After extracting the toad’s poison — which Christina incorrectly identified as venom — Shaman Dan described using an undisclosed chemical as a bonding agent into the 5 MeO-DMT blend.
“It’s not something the individual taking it knows,” Christina said. “That’s why it’s very important that you trust whoever is administering this, because if they do not know what they’re doing, they will mess you up. It’s basically like taking crystal meth from a drug dealer off the street.”
Public awareness of the toad has grown rapidly in recent years, with increasing references not just in academic journals, but in popular media as well. Journalist and author Michael Pollan discussed his negative experience with 5-MeO-DMT in his 2018 bookHow to Change Your Mind, which reached number one on the New York Times bestsellers list. Pollan also discussed the subject on The Joe Rogan Experience,a popular podcast. Host Joe Rogan has covered 5-MeO-DMTs transformative power many times, perhaps most notably in an episode from earlier this year with Mike Tyson. All this buzz leaves the little toads facing evermore heavyweight dangers from all corners.
The Sonoran Desert toad does not face these challenges alone, however. The THS is funding a project to study how the ionic composition of cement water holes may be harmful or even lethal to amphibians. Villa partnered with Cream Design and Print to produce t-shirts, posters and other items that spread awareness about the danger extraction poses to toads, and to raise money for conservation efforts. He hopes that if potential 5-MeO-DMT users know the harm they’re doing to these hardy animals, that they will choose less-harmful methods for obtaining whatever it is they seek.
While the toad may be the only animal source for 5-MeO-DMT, the compound can be synthesized and found in many plants. The seeds of one species of Anadenanthera trees in South America contain 5-MeO-DMT and DMT. Virola trees also originate from South America, and some species of this plant contain both forms of DMT as well. They are both typically prepared as snuffs but can be consumed otherways as well.
Synthetic 5-MeO-DMT is in many ways a superior delivery vehicle to the toad-sourced variety. The extract from toads contains many other chemicals and can be dangerous if it is not consumed correctly. Synthetic 5-MeO-DMT can be precisely dosed, whereas every toad’s extract is a little different. The study cited earlier showing 5-MeO-DMT’s effectiveness as a treatment for depression and anxiety used the synthetic variety in its experimental trials.
The benefits of synthetic versus toad-sourced 5-MeO-DMT were even discussed by Rogan on his podcast. Rogan reported a very positive experience when he consumed synthetic 5-MeO-DMT. Pollan had a very different reaction, describing his consumption of the toad-sourced variety as horrible. For the most toad-loving psychonauts, these alternatives can provide a safer and more eco-conscious way to experience this unique molecule. “It boils down to your individual ethics,” Villa said. “As psychonauts, I would hope that you are able to think about how your use of substances and your acquisition of those substances has an effect on the rest of the world.”
About the Author
Jeff Kronenfeld is an independent journalist and fiction writer based out of Phoenix, Arizona. His articles have been published in Vice, Overture Global Magazine and other outlets. His fiction has been published by the Kurt Vonnegut Memorial Library, Four Chambers Press and other presses. For more info, go to www.jeff-k.com.
In today’s episode, Joe interviews Mike Jay, Author of the book, Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic. In the show they discuss Mescaline’s origins and the history of Peyote use.
3 Key Points:
Mike Jay is a Cultural Historian and Author whose topics include science, medicine, drugs, madness, literature and radical politics.
Mike’s recent book, Mescaline, is a definitive history of mescaline that explores its mind-altering effects across cultures, from ancient America to western modernity.
Over time, Peyote has been used by spiritual seekers, by psychologists investigating the secrets of consciousness, artists exploring the creative process, and by psychiatrists.
Mike Jay is a freelance writer, an author and cultural historian
Mike has been interested in Mescaline for a really long time
Indigenous Use
James Mooney is a crucial figure in the transition from indigenous use of peyote to the more current applications
The New Deal made religions respected, protected under the First Amendment for freedom of worship
History
There is a ton of literature before the 60’s on psychedelic use
It was obvious that if people were interested in psychoactive drugs, they would take it themselves
Back then, science was much more proactive than it is today, but it is becoming more popular again
Peyote Experience
It’s hard to find an ethical source of Peyote
Mike says its unpleasant but warm and tingly and euphoric
By 1970, Mescaline was this legendary substance, but it was hard to find on the streets unless you knew an underground chemist
On the Erowid site, they have a bulletin that the DEA created about all of the street drug seizures He wrote a book 20 years ago called Emperors of Dreams
2CB is not as intense as Mescaline
Mescaline is a phenethylamine
It does not cross the blood brain barrier as easily. So you need to take more of it
It is a body and mind drug
Indigenous Use
The Comanches were in a reservation in the Wichita mountains
He was notified by the Comanches on some history
He went to meet with them, and they told him stories on the history
Peyote use originated inside of a Tipi
“The way that we see psychedelics in modern Western culture, is not the only way of thinking about it:” – Mike
Native American Church
There is an interesting thing that happened between Mexican/South American Shamanic practice and Native American Church
In the ceremony, the facilitator is made to not ask like a priest, everyone is their own priest
It is a healing modality for everybody
The very first peyote experiences in the west encouraged artists to make art
Salvador Dali was apparently anti-drug use
The surrealist movement had a number of rules
Huichol art is a very psychedelic inspired art
The plant
Peyote is so fast growing, in some places it is growing naturally
San Pedro is way more sustainable than Peyote
There is a lot of demand for Peyote currently
Joe says he thinks that Peyote is not scheduled in Canada
Accounts
The western story is full of first-person experiencesIts based on the personal
experiences and visions
In the indigenous accounts, there are very little stories on experience or personal matters, its more recording on the collective experience
Mike Jay is a leading specialist in the study of drugs across history and cultures. The author of Artificial Paradises, Emperors of Dreams, and The Atmosphere of Heaven, his critical writing on drugs has appeared in many publications, including The Guardian, The Telegraph, and The International Journal of Drug Policy. He sits on the editorial board of the addiction journal Drugs and Alcohol Today and on the board of the Transform Drug Policy Foundation. He lives in England.
The psychedelic revolution is upon us. After receiving an FDA “Breakthrough Therapy” designation for psilocybin (a hallucinogenic compound in magic mushrooms) and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy against treatment-resistant depression and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), hallucinogens are finally finding place amongst the most viable psychiatric protocols of the modern-day. With appropriate dosage, set and setting, psychedelics have demonstrated unparalleled clinical efficacy in alleviating symptoms of some of the most prevalent and pressing psychological disorders and afflictions—depression,1,2 PTSD,3 substance abuse and addiction,4,5,6,7 obsessive-compulsive disorder,8 anxiety in the terminally ill…9,10 The list goes on. And whether its the decriminalization of psilocybin by Denver and Oakland, new strides in clinical research with MDMA, or microdosing LSD to enhance corporate creativity in Silicon Valley, I open the paper to a new headline every day. The reach of these psychedelic agents is great, and only becoming greater.
With the second advent and accruing legitimacy of these therapeutic tools, we are confronted with an entirely new era of psychiatry and consciousness studies. It is the marriage science and spirituality, or, in the words of UCLA psychiatrist and psychedelic researcher Charles Grob, a form of “applied mysticism.”11 Under the auspices of integrative medicine, individuals are benefitting tremendously from psychedelically-occasioned mystical-type experiences. They are afforded feelings of unity, euphoria, vastness, unbridled love, and profound peace and joy.12,13,14 Also referred to as “plant teachers” and “entheogens”—literally translated to that which “releases the divine within”—psychedelics seem to open us up, to expose us to ourselves and the entire palette and majesty of existence, and then return us graciously to our more familiar form of being, endowed with an enhanced capacity for the fundamental human tenets of empathy, love, and compassion.
Undoubtedly, then, it is an exciting time — But a provocative and precarious time at that. There is still so much to know. So we must learn from the lessons of our psychedelic past, temper our excitement, and exercise faith and patience in the gradualism of empirical science. In order to fully realize the potential of psychedelics in psychological healthcare, we must all act together, slowly, steadily, and with altruistic intention.
As a recent undergraduate, I completed an independent Senior research project on the biochemistry of hallucinogenic mushrooms, in order to do my very small part. Word got around that I was studying psychedelics, even quicker than you would expect at a small liberal arts college in the middle of a rural farm state. To strangers, I became “the girl who studies shrooms,” and I did not mind.
Magic mushrooms? Spirituality? And Biochemistry? At an academic institution? How could that be?
To those inquisitors, I was prepared and passionate to discuss my findings. But I never could have anticipated the explosion of interest and many thoughtful inquiries I did receive.
My email inbox was deluged with “your research,” “looking to connect,” or “coffee?” subject headings, from people of all walks of life—those that fit the psychedelic archetype, and those remarkably unsuspecting or straight edge; those in tie-dye and those in polo shirts; students of every grade and social circle, athletes and artists, of red and blue states, all races, religious ideologies or lack thereof, and socioeconomic class; professors of music and mathematics, biology, economics, gender studies, and yes, of course, physics and poetry. Many were already knocking on Alfred Huxley’s Doors of Perception and finding that their particular variety of everyday existence just wasn’t cutting it anymore.
I was startled by how many were curious to try psychedelics, or were already actively exploring the subtlest realms of their unconscious mind; how many aspired for a better understanding of themselves, or felt spiritually deprived and were seeking validation or comradery of the soul; how many sought antidote to their feelings of anger, alienation, or dissatisfaction in “recreational” psychedelic use, and spoke with me in crisis of the psyche, believing there is and wanting more.
I wondered, is this a time of collective awakening and curiosity, but occurring behind closed doors? According to the 2010 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 17% percent of people surveyed between ages 21 and 64 reported lifetime use of one or more psychedelics, LSD, psilocybin (magic mushrooms), mescaline, and/or peyote.15 That is an estimated 32 million Americans tripping. People are doing psychedelics — on a therapist’s couch, in National Parks, in your very own neighborhood streets. And, consistent with accounts from clinical therapeutic psilocybin and MDMA trials, people are having extraordinary revelations. They are experiencing undiluted joy or traversing phantasmagorical landscapes of kaleidoscopic complexity. Some are enduring adversity there, confronting buried traumas and subconscious discontent, while others come face-to-face with God. Some experience an extinction of self, sheer terror, or utter bliss. Psychedelics are reawakening individuals to life, and sometimes, to love as its essence. And upon return to baseline “consensus reality,” many don’t quite know what to do.
The majority of those with whom I spoke or exchanged emails with were concerned with reintegration. They were apprehensive of the applicability of their psychedelic insight into day-to-day life. Put simply, they worry, where to put all the love? How to incite this change?
And I hope we can agree, it is sad that this dilemma exists. That inspired individuals struggle to find practical or quotidian applications for newfound senses of interconnectedness, peace and joy. Many feel estranged or paralyzed in the aftermath of a psychedelic experience, under the impression that their come-to-God realizations or mystical musings are not compatible with their preexisting way of life. Some worry that if they speak of their journey, eyes will roll, and their story will be met with skepticism. People do not feel adequately supported, socially or societally.
One friend of mine, a highly successful financial analyst in his mid 50’s, wrote to me after a particularly potent psilocybin journey, “society is not a place for the loving. It is ill-compassionate in conception and now character. And I am afraid I will be called a hippie.” I, too, struggle with this. My goal is to become an integrative psychiatrist, but I have been counseled to refrain from mentioning psychedelic research in my medical school application. I am not supposed to speak openly about my belief that hallucinogens are tremendous tools for personal transformation, or of the love and gratitude I have been afforded by incredible psychedelic insights of my own. I am not Michael Pollan and lack his immediate credibility. How may we legitimize our curiosity and excitement?
I believe the power to do so is in the hands of the people. By practicing acceptance, acting with kindness, cultivating community, and welcoming the return of psychedelic voyagers with open ears and arms, we, as an evolving society, may eliminate the stigma. We may realize the full potential of these medicines, in and outside of sanctioned medical settings. Because let’s face it, people are tripping anyway. Much like clinical psychedelic-assisted therapeutic models, in which debriefings are held, explorers of the mind may benefit from similar sympathetic settings to decompress, review and reflect, to derive meaning from their experience, assimilate and grow. In the absence of a mediating shaman or psychiatrist, by default, this responsibility may be assumed by friends and family. People should not be left to confide only in “the girl who studies shrooms.” Not to mention, risks associated with psychedelic use are most pronounced when used recklessly and/or in unsupervised settings. The likelihood of experiencing panic and paranoia of potentially lasting psychological detriment, or of injury or fatality due to impaired judgment, is reduced in safe and supportive physical session environments, which we may create and hold for one another.
May we remain leery and methodological regarding the process of legalization, then, to the extent that it does not inhibit personal growth, freedom of expression, cognitive liberty, and the propagation of love. While psychedelics are finding their rightful nook in modern medicine and perhaps, impacting the lives of some you hold dear, we should engage in communion, and indulge in the most effectively human thing about us, our ability to care and connect. To give and listen and learn. Hopefully, someday soon, there will be formal research and psychiatric training facilities, providing comfortable, secure environments for sensible psychedelic use. But in the meantime, may we embrace this important avenue of self-exploration, by being there for one another.
About the Author
Zoe Moynihan graduated in May, 2019 from Middlebury College, with a Bachelor’s degree in Biochemistry, Summa Cum Laude. Zoe completed independent senior research on the biochemistry of psilocybin mushrooms, which culminated in her final paper entitled Magic Mushrooms: A Reconciliation of Science and Spirituality; Psilocybin Phenomenology, Pharmacodynamics, and Psychopharmaceutical Applications.
In today’s episode, Joe sits down with Andy Frasco, a touring rock musician with the band, Andy Frasco and the UN. In the show, they cover what is it like to be a touring rock musician with drugs so available and how to live more healthfully in the space.
3 Key Points:
Andy Frasco is a talented, touring music artist a part of the band, Andy Frasco and the UN, as well as a podcast show host. Andy uses psychedelics to help cope with the anxiety that the rock star lifestyle brings.
Psychedelics open us up to the possibility that everything we know is wrong. Finding truth and clarity for some people is hard, and people resort to alcohol and other harmful behaviors to suppress the painful reality we live in.
Cocaine and uppers only keep a rock star up for so long. It keeps you awake for the partying, but it suppresses all the stresses of the lifestyle. Psychedelics and meditation can help with the balance needed in a stressful, lifestyle of traveling and fame.
Microdosing is typically 6 weeks on, two weeks off, dosing every 3 days
1/10-3/10ths of a gram (of mushrooms) is the typical microdose
Once you feel it, it’s more of a macro-dose
Paul Stamets has made mushrooms popular
Mushroom Evolution
Mushrooms did not leave a mark on bone structure, so it’s hard to tell if they actually made a difference in human evolution
Drugs have been around for a long time, and people in the past have definitely used them
There are studies of mushrooms helping to grow nerve cells and brain neurons back
We are only 50-100 years in on science “(Psychedelics) open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong.” -Terence McKenna
Joe says he’s been to a therapist a bunch of times, and he says he has enjoyed it
Joe’s main form of therapy has been Breathwork
His most intense experiences have been just as powerful as his Ayahuasca experience
About Andy
Andy says he is open about taking psychedelics, he takes mushrooms, he doesn’t really use cocaine
He says he feels more anxious when he isn’t taking them than when he is
He says he gets really anxious on weed now as he gets older
Psychedelics show us a lot of truths
“We are all trying to figure out life, it’s hard. Psychedelics help us create a better relationship with our mind.” – Andy
Andy says he has been anxious his whole life
He has had very scary panic attacks
He became addicted to sex as a crutch for his anxiety
He woke up one day, and sex didn’t give him the thrill anymore
Andy started in the music industry because rock stars get the chicks
Teen years are just about being super insecure about everything
Shame is a huge influence on our relationships with other people
“The majority of effects from drug use for people are good.” – a quote from Carl Hart, a Psychology Professor who studies drug use
Andy’s first psychedelic experience was an 8th of mushrooms at 18 years old
Rock Star Lifestyle
Andy says he used to be really into coke because he just had to stay up for the shows
But he says he doesn’t take anything anymore that feels like speed
He was coping his exhaustion with drugs and alcohol
“When you’re in a band you’re the party for one day of the year in that city.” – Andy
Life for a rock star can’t just be the 2 hour show, the trick is figuring out how to be mindful for the other 14 hours of the day after the party
The lifestyle is really hard, its very common to use drugs, sex and alcohol to suppress it
Humans were not designed for this
Andy has begun using transcendental meditation to help with this lifestyle
He also mentions having his first DMT experience recently
Links
Use code PSYTODAY at Onnit for discount on all products except fitness equipment Get a 30 day free trail at Audible
About Andy Frasco
Andy Frasco, a Los Angeles, CA native singer, songwriter, band maestro, entrepreneur, party starter and everyday hustler, tours with his band, “The U.N.” The music has elements of Soul, Funk, Rock and Roots and the shows have been described as orchestrated chaos, an overall great time. Frasco average 200+ dates a year, touring the country dozens of times, creating a loyal following everywhere he goes.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe sit down to cover questions from listeners of the show. They discuss topics that include psychedelic use for exorcisms, cluster headaches, athletic performance, processing grief and more.
3 Key Points:
There are a few examples where psychedelics are used to increase athletic performance. Psychedelics can also be used to help realign those who are using sports as a form of distraction from internalized issues.
When eliminating variables for psilocybin consistency in mushrooms for therapeutic use, freeze drying helps. But there are so many variables in mushrooms versus synthesized psilocybin.
When addressing the sustainability of the Toad, according to the data, there isn’t a real difference between 5-MEO-DMT from a toad and synthesized 5-MEO-DMT
The receptor site activity is the same as opioid pills
Using Psychedelics for an Exorcism
Kyle thinks of shamanic uses for plant medicines, and with the idea of purging and spiritual emergence, working in non-ordinary states can exacerbate these states and maybe help with this kind of work
Joe and Kyle go into writings from Stan Grof, explaining the physical appearance of those going through LSD psychotherapy or breathwork, and how it assimilates to an ‘exorcism’ of releasing the bad
The purging during a psychedelic experience may feel evil, or alien
Joe and Kyle say, do not perform an exorcism, leave it to the trained people
Treating Cluster Headaches with Psychedelics
Cluster Busters is an organization for the research on cluster headaches
LSD works for some as well as oxygen treatments work for others
We know a lot more about migraines than cluster headaches
The migraine is where neurons in the brain start misfiring and create a firing storm
How can Psilocybin Mushrooms be Standardized in Production for Therapeutic Use?
Joe says the practical solution is to have a really large amount of psilocybe cubensis, all blended up, and then split in even doses
There are potency differences between species, strains, etc
There are so many variances with mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin
Freeze drying also promotes close to 0% loss of psilocybin when drying mushrooms
Psychedelics and Athletic Performance
There may be psychological blocks that are getting in the way of a person reaching the peak performance of their genome
It could be trauma, or psychological blocks
Athletic performance could be a distraction from what you’re really here to do
Athletes have a lot of dysfunctional behavior
Psychedelics may show us our bad behavior and help us align
Kyle says he had this passion to snowboard and dedicate his life to snowboarding, and then he received a message in journeywork that told him snowboarding is simply a hobby and he needs to focus his life on other things
“Sports are a great way to cover up our emotions” – Joe
A lot of people internalize it instead of breaking down and letting it go
Links
Use code PSYTODAY at Onnit for discount on all products except fitness equipment Get a 30 day free trail at Audible
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to cover highlights from the Horizons Conference. In the show, they discuss the presentations and topics they heard at the conference.
3 Key Points:
Joe and Kyle attended Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics Conference in NYC, it is a forum that examines the role of psychedelic drugs and plant medicines in science, medicine, culture and spirituality.
Carl Hart gave a compelling talk; Dispelling the Lies that the Psychedelic Community believes about Drugs. Greater than 80% of the effects of drugs used are positive.
Another popular topic was on the economics around psychedelics, and discussion on companies trying to monopolize on psychedelics.
Carl Hart did a talk; Dispelling the Lies that the Psychedelic Community believes about drugs
Greater than 80% of the effects of drugs used are positive
PCP is a psychedelic drug, but the psychedelic community chooses not to own it
Ketamine was derived from PCP
Hamilton Morris said that no drug is bad, it comes down to the dose and how its being used
Poison can be a medicine, and medicine can be a poison, it all depends on dose
No drug should be illegal, drug scheduling should just go away
Some states are starting to ban private prisons
Joe says the drug war is the war on race, the war on class, etc
Joe suggests looking up the Portugal drug law; less overdoses, less HIV, less incarceration, etc
Kyle mentions that in some cultures they would drink alcohol to get into a trance state and dance around all night and then chill for 3 days afterward because they would all be recovering from the hangover
Talks and Topics
Shelby and Madison, co founders from Doubleblind Magazine did a talk
Fiona Misham did a talk on the use of psychedelics for festivals and fun
She talked about having on-site drug testing facilities and how they heighten safety
In 2018 in Europe the MDMA contents were tested at 168milligrams
1 in 5 substances are mis-sold
1 in 20 MDMA samples were long lasting N-ethylpentylone, a drug that keeps you up for 3 days straight
There was also an Economics panel
Kyle says it was a heavy and hot debate
There was a lot of conversation on companies making money on psychedelics
There was worry from some on Compass Pathways monopolizing on psychedelics
Kyle says big and fast growth can be dangerous for mental health
It’s possible that these companies will just push for results to pay off the investment than to really take the time to have slow meaningful sessions and include the therapeutic model
When therapists have more congruence with their client, they get better results
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
Extinction Rebellion has become the most well-known climate justice movement in history.
With over 100,000 members and worldwide protests regularly attracting crowds of thousands, XR aims to use non-violent civil disobedience to share their message: political leaders are not doing enough to protect the world from climate catastrophe.
Now the XR hourglass logo can be seen dotted around most major cities, and local groups are catalyzing a global revolution.
Extinction Rebellion began as a collaboration between climate activists who were becoming disenfranchised by the slow progress of their protest efforts. And uniquely, its roots are deeply set in the world of psychedelic plant medicines.
The Psychedelic Origins of Extinction Rebellion
Gail Bradbrook, one of the original co-founders of Extinction Rebellion, has been very transparent about the psychedelic influences behind her decisions.
Having been involved in climate activism for most of her life, Gail was feeling like nothing was working. Speaking at this year’s Breaking Convention in London, UK, Gail described howshe prayed for “the codes to social change” during an ayahuasca retreat in Costa Rica. Gail also took iboga and kambo, alongside ayahuasca, during her time there.
In her talk at Breaking Convention, Gail described the immediate lessons she learned from the West African plant medicine iboga, which told her: “Gail, you create your own reality!” The notoriously uncomfortable iboga experience eventually gave way to Gail feeling all her negative thought patterns being gently removed by a grandmotherly figure.
It was in an ayahuasca ceremony that Gail asked the specific question about where to go next with her activism. The Amazonian psychedelic brew, typically associated with intense physical purging, is often taken by people in search of otherworldly wisdom. “I was praying for guides, and allies, to know that people would have my back.” Although she received no immediate answers, Gail was aware that “ayahuasca is mysterious, and her gifts come later.”
One month after her ayahuasca ceremony, Gail met with activist Roger Hallam, and they talked for hours about the latest research into activism and revolution. It ended with Roger saying “What you’ve got here, Gail, are the codes for social change.”
It looked like her prayers had been answered.
Disobedience was the foundation of these codes, and it directly led to the philosophy of Extinction Rebellion. “It’s only by being disruptive that you get people to have a conversation about an issue,” says Gail. During the press conference at Breaking Convention, Gail called for mass psychedelic disobedience, “where we take [psychedelic] medicine to tell the state that they have absolutely no right to control our consciousness and to define our spiritual practice.”
Gail’s calls for psychedelic law-breaking are a distinct contrast to the mainstream stance of the psychedelic community, who are mostly seeking the medicalization of psychedelic compounds, the first wave of which could come within the next ten years.. Gail has responded to this by saying “We don’t have time to wait for the science. […] Society will have collapsed by then. Why mess around behaving ourselves?”
Psychedelics Can Shift Our Relationship With Nature
Although the Extinction Rebellion organization has no official stance on psychedelics, there’s good reason for XR to be interested in their potential. We know that psychedelics can help to change the way we see ourselves and our position in the world.
People who have more lifetime experience with psychedelics are more likely to feel a connection to nature, and be more environmentally friendly (such as reducing water usage and recycling) compared to others. Even when other personality traits linked to environmental behavior – such as conscientiousness and liberal morals – are taken into consideration, this finding stands up.
It’s also been shown that the intensity of the psychedelic experience can predict the level of connection to nature that people have. Those who have had the most profound sense of a “loss of self” during their psychedelic experiences are the people most likely to feel a strong connection to nature.
These findings are important because our detachment from nature is arguably a large part of why humanity has caused the climate and ecological crisis we find ourselves in. As Daniel Quinn explains in his book Ishmael, the modern narrative of our inherent disconnection from the natural world is a pervasive philosophy that has convinced many of us that humanity is a lost cause.
One chance we have to reject this philosophy is through psychedelics. Science has now confirmed that psychedelics have the potential to change our perspective of the natural world. And any psychedelic journeyer can testify about their power to remind us that there is no such thing as humanity outside of nature.
A Return to Animism?
It’s not just the psychedelic experience itself that can bring us into an awareness of our true place in the natural world, but also the traditions that can accompany it.
Most cultures that have developed alongside psychedelic plant medicines are fundamentally animist societies. This means that they believe every living thing in the world has a spirit, or soul. In other words, every being is just a human in another form; another life.
Animism takes interconnectedness to be the very core fact of life. Although animist societies are not immune to greed, corruption, homophobia or misogyny, in general they appreciate that these actions have consequences. These cultures, though often flawed, very rarely destroy their lands, and they understand that their existence relies upon the wellbeing of their surroundings.
The concept of animism is also starting to enter mainstream Western thought, as our growing understanding of quantum physics points towards consciousness being something of a big deal. The philosophy of idealism, adapted to fit our quantum view of the world, could be about to see a surge in popularity among Western thinkers and scientists. Animism could soon see a resurgence in Western culture.
Westerners often end up taking psychedelic plant medicines within animist cultural contexts, as the most experienced shamans and practitioners usually come from these traditions. This means that psychedelics present a unique opportunity – not just for the encounter with one-ness they can induce, but for the animist wisdom they can bring us into contact with.
Could Psychedelics Catalyze Social Change?
Is an increased connection to nature enough to catalyze widespread social change? Could this be enough to combat the climate crisis?
Gail Bradbrook does not think that this should be our focus. She feels that although changing our relationship to nature will be crucial in order to build a less destructive society, it would be a process requiring “many centuries of work.”
Right now, Gail is calling for urgent social upheaval, starting with large acts of civil disobedience.
Plant medicines have already catalyzed the formation of Extinction Rebellion. Now, they may be used as an expression of cognitive freedom. And ultimately, they could be a route towards a society thataccepts its place in a global ecosystem.
About the Author
Patrick Smith, PhD, is a biologist and science writer. He has been working in the psychedelic space for the past five years. He currently writes for EntheoNation.
In this episode, Joe interviews Tep, a chemical engineer and educated, psychedelic enthusiast. They dive into rich conversation regarding drug use education and creating a cohesive meaning among recreational, medical and therapeutic substance use.
3 Key Points:
There is a disconnect between drug education and drug use. There are a lot of people who use drugs, but not a lot of people who are educated on how to use them.
There is a huge advantage of isolating the property of the drug when using them for therapy. For example, using isolated psilocybin vs mushrooms.
Learning on site at festivals and music events may not be super successful, drug education and harm reduction may look more like preparation.
Tep listens to all sorts of music, whether that’s rave style with lights, or jam bands, or a music festival with camping, or even rap and jazz
There is a whole spectrum of drug use in the music environment
She points out that some people are very mindful of what and how much they are taking, and other people are just taking anything they can find, and sometimes a lot or too much
She started to talk to people at festivals and realized that people really didn’t know about the benefits and power of psychedelics
There definitely is a place for harm reduction education at festivals
Drug Use Assistance Groups
Joe brings up the Zendo project and other initiatives that help people who are having a difficult drug experience to walk them out of it
Some festival ‘families’ go around and have missions to hydrate people or make sure people are having a good time
They aren’t staff or paid to do it or anything but they do it for the good of the whole
Vision
Learning on site may not be super successful, most festival goers have an agenda for adventure and music and not for learning at a booth or speaker
Drug education and harm reduction may look more like preparation
Tep mentions Diplo doesn’t allow any drug use at his shows, alcohol is the only allowed substance
Tep thinks that he probably doesn’t know that alcohol is far worse than psychedelics and other drugs
Theraputic Use
When someone goes and has a vacation, they have certain chemicals released in their mind, it is still therapeutic, even if it’s not a psychedelic experience
“Not only can psychedelics be fun, they can also be therapeutic.” – Tep
Tep started going to camping style festivals and started hanging out with a crowd of people 10 years older than her, where their drug use was mature and mindful and safe
Then when she would hang around her younger friend group again, she realized how unsafe and unmindful their drug use was
It led her to be more active in wanting to educate everyone on how to use drugs properly
Exotic Compounds
Shulgin’s magical half dozen includes 2CB, 2CT2, and others
Tep mentions preference of truffles over mushrooms
Her and Joe bring up the decrease in potency of most drugs with exposure to moisture and time and other variables
Compound Isolation
There is a huge advantage of isolating the property of the drug when using them for therapy
For example, using isolated psilocybin vs mushrooms
The therapy is just as important as the substance
There is a way to find information in this community without getting a degree in it
About Tep
Tep is a chemical engineer who had an interest in modern psychedelic research. She is passionate about the EDM and music culture and finding new ways to educate drug users on harm reduction and drug use education.
In this unique episode, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H joins together in conversation with Dr. Andrew Gallimore, Author of Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game. In the show, these two Englishmen discuss Peter’s critique of Dr. Gallimore’s recent book.
3 Key Points:
Dr. Andrew Gallimore’s recent book, Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game, explains how DMT provides the secret to the very structure of our reality.
Based on a recently published review of Andrew’s book, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H sifts through and confronts Andrew’s idea that DMT allows one access to, and existence in a hyperspatial world.
They discuss Peter’s critique, covering topics on information, consciousness, dimensions, dreams and theory.
The first problem is a critique on what information is
The second point regards consciousness
The third point talks about dimensions and theories
Information
The first problem Peter states says that the originality of the work pushes the ideas further toward art and further away from truth
Andrew says he is a fan of making things a work of art, and he says at the start of the book that it isn’t something scientific
In philosophy it’s called speculative metaphysics
“It’s cliche isn’t it, that science fiction eventually becomes science fact.” – Peter
Minkowski Space Time, the theory that Einstein supports, HG Wells wrote about a half a century before Minkowski wrote about it
Peter says that a person could be defined by a set of numbers, weight, height, age, etc.
Andrew says that the information is the electron, and how it interacts with other information
How do we know that there is not more to anything than that which we can know about it?
How matter creates/is mind is a mystery
Consciousness
Peter asks, ‘does information at a high level produce subjectivity?’
Andrew says consciousness is fundamental
Panpsychism holds a distinction between an aggregate and a hold-on
Andrew says that integrated information is consciousness
Information doesn’t emerge from consciousness, information actually is consciousness
Andrew says that he is an idealist, he thinks that the world is structured
Peter says that information always has to be about something
Andrew disagrees and says that information is substantiated
You could say, the fundamental digits of our reality are ran by an ‘alien computer’, the physics completely different than our understanding of reality
Andrew says that the absolute self is not only aware of itself, its aware that it is aware of itself
He also says that these ideas are all musings, all things he has thought about as possibilities
Peter asks Andrew if he thinks brains are required for consciousness
Andrew says, consciousness is not a property of matter, it is an organization of things
Dimensions and Theories
Andrew says we don’t need senses to experience other worlds
The DMT experience is not mind dependent, it shows another reality
When you’re dreaming, it’s independent of the sensory experience, but its not entirely independent of the waking world
“The dream state is informed by the waking state.” – Andrew
Peter asks, ‘If the brain creates dreams, why does the brain not create the DMT world?’
“We know how the brain learns to construct worlds, but we don’t know how the brain learns to construct DMT worlds.” – Andrew
When looking at a machine elf, is he equally as able to deny his consciousness as we are able to?
Final Thoughts
Peter concludes that Andrew is a Realist/Panthiest
Peter and Andrew think that they don’t disagree with each other, but Peter believes Andrew would have to go into extremely deep detail on all of his points in his book, and the book is thick enough as it is
Peter agrees Andrew’s book is a great narrative for mapping the DMT space
Andrew likes to think of it as computational idealism
Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.
About Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H
Dr Peter Sjöstedt-H is an Anglo-Scandinavian philosopher of mind and a metaphysician who specializes in the thought of Whitehead and Nietzsche, and in fields pertaining to panpsychism and altered states of sentience. Following his degree in Continental Philosophy at the University of Warwick, he became a Philosophy lecturer in London for six years and has now passed his PhD (on ‘Pansentient Monism’, examined by Galen Strawson and Joel Krueger) at the University of Exeter, where he also teaches philosophy modules and writing skills. He is now to become a postdoc fellow of the university. Peter is the author of Noumenautics , the TEDx Talker on ‘psychedelics and consciousness‘, and he is inspiration to the inhuman philosopher Marvel Superhero, Karnak.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to have a conversation about the 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival, Healing the Mind, Healing the Planet. Joe attended the conference and heard from many amazing speakers.
3 Key Points:
Joe attended The 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival last weekend, a festival and conference that celebrates all things fungal and brings together a cohort of enthusiasts, experts, and scientists.
There was a lot of talk on the topic of microdosing. Opinions ranged from the feeling that there isn’t enough valid data to prove that microdosing is effective, to some testimony on how microdosing has helped relieve cluster headaches or help with traumatic brain injuries.
There was some exciting news on innovative ways that mushrooms can be used medically to help fight disease or agriculturally to fight insects without using pesticides.
The Telluride Mushroom Festival took place August 14th – 18th
This festival is is a placeholder Psychedelic conference
In the mycology world, the psychedelic topic isn’t typically included in events
Attendees and Talks
Brick Bunyard, who runs psychedelic magazine
Tradd Cotter of Mushroom Mountain, an excitable mycologist
Larry Evans of Blue Portal
Teresa Egbert of Herbal Visionz, a Psychedelic enthusiast
Peter Hendrix and Sara Lappan spoke on a study for using psychedelics to curb cocaine use
David Nichols, chemist, was pretty optimistic about where the psychedelic movement is heading
He gave a super scientific talk around receptor sites and LSD
Music and Psychedelics
Joe says that there is a long history of music and psychedelics
Kyle mentions a podcast he listened to about someone bringing in their own music for a Ketamine therapy session
Psychedelic Therapy
There was someone at the conference that said psychedelic therapists should have psychedelic experiences and should be open about it
It was an interesting conversation at the conference
Joe says, “you don’t need PTSD to treat someone with PTSD, it’s not the most important factor. The most important factor is safety.”
Scientist Conference
Joe mentions a conference coming up in the fall in New Orleans that is a Scientist only conference
If a scientist has published serious, quantitative data they are invited
It’ll be the first gathering of its kind where there is finally enough data
Microdosing
David Nichols shared his opinion on microdosing, that there isn’t real data on it and that importance should be put toward medical uses
Folks in the audience were making claims about microdosing for migraines and traumatic brain injuries, etc
Are people taking sub-perceptual doses or a threshold dose?
Joe says a macro dose is a dose you can see (maybe the size of an ant), micro dose is something you need a microscope to see
The majority of people microdosing aren’t educating themselves on dose size
Interesting Moments from the Conference
Joe was surprised was how charismatic Tradd Cotter was
Tradd has plans to do mushroom retreats in Jamaica
The most exciting news is a new method of pulling out the antibiotic resistant ‘stuff’ in a person, culturing it out and introducing it to sterilized/colonized grain bag and then reintroducing it to the person so they aren’t antibiotic resistant anymore
This would be a mushroom bi-product that fights disease in humans in less than 24 hours
This same model could be used in cancer treatments or even agricultural applications, using mushrooms to fight disease or bugs that kill plants, etc
There were mushroom foraging walks and mushroom identification tables at the festival
Vendors included mushroom kombucha, mushroom jerky, festival clothing, etc
There was a guy from outside of Arizona who casts real psilocybin mushrooms and makes detailed metal jewelry out of them
The town is small and surrounded by super tall mountains, and the festival is dispersed around the town
It’s a small festival and a great way to make connections
“This is where you quit your job and dedicate your life to mushrooms” – Tradd Cotter
Mushroom farming is one of the few businesses you can start with under $5,000
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Daniel Shankin, Founder of Tam Integration. They cover topics including the Psilocybin Summit, child rearing, and integration practice.
3 Key Points:
The Psilocybin Summit is an online conference on the myth, magic and science of psychedelic mushrooms.
Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves. We need to learn to ask ourselves how we can connect deeply without becoming codependent.
Child rearing is an important topic. Nurturing a child with care and love is similar to the way we use psychedelics, meditation and yoga for healing.
Daniel came up in the psychedelic space in the 90’s
Recreational use turned into therapeutic use
He explains that as enlightenment called to him, it also called him to do shadow work
He said the transformational work began in his 20’s
He said there was no community so he used Ram Dass books to help with integration
Daniel says that psychedelics made him feel a deeper sense of life, more responsibility in his role on earth, feel more connected, etc.
His calling from these feelings led him to practice yoga, open a studio, provide trainings and more
“People gain so much by being heard” – Daniel
Child Rearing
Daniel mentions talking to his wife about conscious child raising
The conversation is about how to heal, not just talking about how to raise ourselves so we need less healing
“How do I raise a baby with as little trauma as possible?” – Daniel
Grof talks about the birth process in his books but kind of stops talking about trauma after the baby is out
The baby is designed to be held by the mother, and to put that child in a box with other children in boxes without parents, in a cold and sterile environment is a horrible idea
We project our own anti-social tendencies onto babies
A baby is meant to have constant connection and attention, and when we give a baby neglect, we wonder why they have addiction, depression, etc.
Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves
“How much deep connection can you offer and can you stand? How can I connect deeply without becoming codependent?” – Daniel
Attachment and Healing
As a yoga teacher for 20 years, he has found that there is a type of reparenting, that it is helping people to learn to help themselves
“Caring for people is a good thing to practice, one of our greatest problems is self-centeredness” – Daniel
Money isn’t the problem, “my money” is the problem
Samskara is a subtle tendency of the mind (like an eroded river)
The tendency to prove that we exist, or to prove that we are right, is something that the ego promotes
It takes energy to tame the ego and recondition ourselves
“Am I trying to prove that I exist in order to feel loved?” If our needs are met and we feel safe and loved, we don’t need to prove ourselves
We tend to look for the quickest and easiest way possible for the least amount of suffering, we look for the quick fix, but there is a lot of work to be done typically
It’s important to introduce a meditation practice into a psychedelic practice
Babies will cry into an endless void because they don’t understand time, just like in breathwork or psychedelic sessions, where time is distorted
Mindfulness of Enthusiasm
Enthusiastic consent is where you can press someone into giving you consent
Are they enthusiastic about engaging with you? If not, then don’t
The 920 Coalition is doing for psilocybin what 420 is doing for cannabis
There has never been a conference that is just psilocybin, and never fully online and live
It allows people to attend a conference from home
There is no venue to pay for, no tickets for travel, making it more accessible
The goal is to get as much traditional information as possible
Daniel says he’s not advocating psychedelics, he is advocating meditation for those who use psychedelics
Daniel hopes that with this conference, that he didn’t choose the speakers to just spit facts, hopefully this is heart and mind education that helps people feel like there is something possible in their lives that makes them feel greater, and that may or may not include psilocybin
Coaching vs. Therapy
Some people do not need therapy, they need coaching and accountability
We live in a world where our context does not always work to serve us
After a profound and intense awakening experience in 1998, Daniel dove deep into his yoga and meditation practice to stabilize his realization in his body and the world. He began teaching in 2002, and took over leadership of his neighborhood yoga studio in 2004. He’s directed several teacher training programs and taught on the faculty of even more. Daniel ‘Sitaram Das’ Shankin has dedicated his life to the cultivation of clarity, resilience, and heart. With the recognition that our true nature is vast and generous, wise, he strives to serve his clients in finding their own innate goodness and boundless strength. He currently offers leadership coaching with a heavy emphasis on mindfulness and somatics, and is based in Marin County. You can visit his website and learn more about coaching opportunities at sitaramdas.com.
Download In this episode, Kyle sits down to chat with Greg Kieser, Founder of think-tank, Supersystemic.ly and author of Dear Machine, a book written as a letter to a future super-intelligent entity. Topics covered include blockchain, AI, money, Psychedelic Investments and how psychedelics can help humanity prepare for the emergence of super-intelligent entities.
3 Key Points:
Blockchain offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source.
Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper. Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services.
Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass Pathways is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale.
Greg worked at a foundation in NYC aimed at reducing the rate of poverty
He started an angel investment firm/think tank, Supersystemic.ly
He wrote the book, Dear Machine, a letter to a future, super-intelligent entity
Looking to the Past
Our nutrition narrowed when we became farmers
“The truth is, we can’t go back to where we came from, we have to go to a new place, so how do we do that?” – Greg
There is such difficulty with people living in clusters (cities) and transporting all of the food in from the country
It’s important for the psyche to get back to nature and even taking on a hobby as simple as gardening can be so healing
Children’s immune system has been shown to become stronger when living on farms and playing with animals and in the dirt
Psychedelics are helpful in understanding how interconnected everything is
Integration of Technology
Blockchains have the capacity to take data and pull it into a place where we have more control over it (can’t be bought or sold)
When we combine our knowledge of technology with psychedelics, we will really start to progress as a species
Block Chain
The creator of Bitcoin created BlockChain, which is a type of database that lives out on the internet that no one can own
It offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source
Greg mentions a block chain that will be a regeneration of land
Maybe all the members donate $50 to the block chain, and those members then can follow the progress of a pond or the growth of a tree, etc
Its a good example of a block chain being used for good
Money
Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper
Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services
AI
AI is going to get more and more powerful and corporations and governments are going to want to get their hands on AI for more power
In Dear Machine, Greg wrote about a super aware machine that helps us to make super intelligent decisions based on what food to eat (based on our microbes, our genetics, what is the most sustainable for the environment, etc)
Greg fears that the government will try to take control of it and have its own agenda, but he thinks that with super awareness for decision making, that good will win
Kyle mentions that the Western mind is so obsessed with Apocalypse
AI and Superintelligence are going to accelerate whatever systems we already have in place
If it happened right now, it would look ugly
But, if we create a world that appreciates interconnectedness and the diversity and complexity of our minds and our bodies, then we will be in a much better place
Psychedelics have a huge role to play, it allows us to appreciate things, it helps get our ego out of the way, it helps us break addiction
Monoculturization has led to a lot of bad things
“Don’t try to change the system, just make a new system” – Buckminster Fuller
Human well being and environmental stability are two metrics that we need to work on
Interest in Psychedelics
Greg’s interest in psychedelics began when we was invited to Psilocybin ceremonies
He said it just ‘clicks’
“You really don’t understand what psychedelics are until you take them” – Greg
He then began to invest in psychedelics, microbiomes, agriculture, etc
Compass Pathways
The main problem with the health system is that we get into the idea of patenting molecules
Psilocybin is a molecule that can’t be patented, so he’s not worried
Greg wants to see psilocybin use at a larger scale, so the medical model is a great way to get there
As a part of Compass Pathway’s program, in order to be a therapist and provide the therapy, you have to go through the therapy yourself
Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale
Looking Ahead
Greg is most excited to see healing from opioid addiction
Alcohol and tobacco fall under that in his hopes for healing
Greg is also really excited about the microbiome and the gut connection to the rest of the body
There was an Autism study that gave people with Autism a microbe transplant from healthy people and after 2 years there has been a remission of symptoms Microbiome Reddit
Greg Kieser is founder of Supersystemic.ly, a Brooklyn-based think-tank and angel investment firm dedicated to increasing humanity’s readiness for the emergence of superintelligent entities through the study and spread of “supersystemic” perspectives and innovations. Kieser, whose university and independent studies of complex systems science form the operating thesis of the company, founded Supersystemic.ly after more than a decade overseeing a portfolio of technology initiatives at an NYC-based poverty-fighting foundation. His work at the foundation was driven by a complex set of metrics for measuring the impact of investments on the economic, physical and mental well-being of low-income New Yorkers. Dear Machine, and to a greater extent the company, unites his unique skills and knowledge in technology, social investing and complex systems science.
In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Sam Gandy. During the show, they cover topics including the implications psychedelics have for human well-being and the biosphere at large at a time of growing disconnection.
3 Key Points:
There have been a lot of recent threats to our planet and its survival if we continue on our current path of unsustainability. Feeling connected to nature increases the human desire to take care of and heal nature.
There has been an inverse correlation with our connectedness to nature and our connection with technology. Getting out in nature, as well as using psychedelics in nature, both help increase our connectedness to nature.
There has been a rise in cutting edge research that reveals the capacity of psychedelic substances to enhance human-nature connection, which Sam shares snippets of throughout the episode.
Sam has a PhD in Ecological Science from the University of Aberdeen and a Masters in Entomology from Imperial College London
He has a lifelong interest in nature and wildlife and has conducted research in areas all over the world
He is a Scientific Assistant to the Director at the Beckley Foundation
He is a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at the Imperial College of London
Sam’s interest in psychedelics began in London when it was legal to buy mushrooms
He was ‘anti-drug’ until he discovered psychedelics and began to explore consciousness and a love for nature
His background in Ecology (the science of interconnection) has combined with the Psychedelic field
Sam is interested in the capacity of psychedelics to increase human-nature connection and relatedness
Saving Earth
There is a huge threat that our planet won’t survive past this century if we continue on our path of destruction
Remedying our nature disconnect is something really important if we want to survive
This nature disconnection is inversely proportional from our technological connection
We cant live without nature
We have to make room for all the other life going on, not just the life that directly serves humans, like crops and livestock
There is an increasing awareness of the need for nature connection
Sam mentions about humanity’s screen addiction, it raises our cortisol levels and there are many consequences such as psychological and physiological effects
“Contentment is the enemy of invention”
Psychedelics and the internet are growing alongside each other
Timothy Leary would say the internet is the psychedelics of the future in terms of connection
The internet is playing a pivotal role in access to information in this psychedelic renaissance
“Technology is not good or bad, it’s about how its used, the intent behind it” – Sam
Nature Disconnect
Sam thinks that the first step that took us away from nature is when we started farming, we became less hunter-gatherer minded and stepped away from the wild environment
At that point we started living in large groups (creating cities)
Then there was the division of labor and urbanization
Cities and technology are the main reasons for our disconnect with nature
“Long term sustainability would be one of the chief governing principles of how things are ran” – Sam
Psychedelics and Nature
There is something radical about psychedelics, they can convert the skeptics into appreciating nature
The ego dissolution character of psychedelics are a key component in feeling connected to nature
The default mode network (where the ego resides) becomes relaxed and dissolved, and when that happens there is a breakdown of perceived boundaries between self and others/nature
That dissolution of boundaries is a key component in the psychedelic experience
“When you feel part of it, it changes fundamentally how you relate to it” – Sam
One’s knowledge of nature is a very weak predictor of one’s concern for nature
There isn’t research of the use of psychedelics in natural settings yet, Sam hopes that as we research psychedelics more (in clinical settings) the research can evolve into studying their use in nature
With psilocybin, most people have claimed to have a long-term fleeting change in their connectedness to nature, that the feeling of connection doesn’t go away after the trip is over, it lasts for weeks, months, even the rest of their life
Rigid Egos and Nature Disconnection
Psilocybin decreases blood flow to the default mode network
“When we are destroying our own homes (our bodies and nature) are we falling out of love with our self?” – Kyle
When we dissolve the ego, we increase connection, to ourselves, to others and to nature
Future in Psychedelics
We are going to see the rise of Psychedelic Therapy
We are going to see Psychedelic groups and communities on the rise
From those groups, we will see projects and initiatives develop, which could bring decriminalization, integration circles, etc.
Sam believes the rise of depression and anxiety are a cause of our disconnection to nature, and he believes there is a lot of personal healing to be had if we get back into nature and actually play a role in healing nature too
Instead of trying to save the world just for our children and our children’s children, we need to look at this planet as if we were to reincarnate and come back to this planet, so we should want to look after this physical plane to make it better for future installments of ourselves
Get Connected with Nature
The direct, physical sensory experience with nature alone is well known to increase our connectedness with it
Sam suggest listeners to get out in nature and do anything! Boating, gardening, bee keeping, a walk in the woods, whatever
Sam really likes the art of Japanese Forest Bathing, which is about mindfulness and taking in nature, maybe combining it with breathwork exercises, etc.
The more mindful you feel, the more connected to nature you are, and vice versa
Final Thoughts
Nature connection is just a single facet of the psychedelic experience, and Sam hopes for more research on this facet in the future
We have a decent amount of research on psychedelics effect on people with depression, PTSD, etc, but Sam hints toward some future research on the effects of psychedelics on the healthy-normal population
Make time for nature in whatever way works for you
2 hours of nature time a week are profoundly beneficial for health
Dr. Sam Gandy works on the cutting edge of psychedelic research, as Scientific Assistant to the Director of the Beckley Foundation, and as a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at Imperial College London. Sam has a lifelong love of nature and wildlife, and a PhD in ecological science from the University of Aberdeen. He has been fortunate enough to conduct field research in various parts of the world including the UK, Kefalonia, Almeria, Texas, the Peruvian Amazon, Vietnam and Ethiopia. Outside his work in the psychedelic field he has written papers, book chapters, articles and spoken at conferences and festivals on psychedelics and he is fascinated by their potential to benefit human lives.
In this episode, Kyle talks with Tom Lane, author of Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl. In the episode, they discuss the history of Quetzalcoatl, the ceremony of the deified heart and sacred mushroom rituals.
3 Key Points:
Quetzalcoatl is a feathered-serpent deity of ancient Mesoamerican culture that can come to you when partaking in the ceremony of the deified heart. Quetzalcoatl teaches how to overcome fear and hatred and bring love.
The ceremony of the deified heart is a sacred mushroom ritual that when methods are combined correctly, can bring about Quetzalcoatl.
In the episode, Tom tells intriguing stories of his experiences with mushroom rituals and experiencing Quetzalcoatl, including a ceremony with Maria Sabina.
He was not an Aztec, he originated as a King in the Toltec civilization thousands of years before the Aztecs
As legend has it, where his blood fell is where the sacred mushrooms grew
Some people believe he was a Naga, a combination flow of energy, a male/female serpent
A winged, jeweled, male/female, serpent
In the ceremony of the deified heart, the serpent will come to you
About Tom
He was building geodesic domes in a remote area in Mexico
He had some of his first mushroom experiences, and it led him to realize that the story of mushrooms was about Quetzalcoatl
His first experience with the mushroom was mild
He said the mushrooms found him, he takes them as a sacrament
Ceremony of the Deified Heart
The legend was that Quetzalcoatl gave cacao to participants as an aphrodisiac and it would help release serotonin
The goal is not to talk a lot
Then, the mushrooms are to be retrieved from the ground, fresh
Before the ceremony, Tom says he likes to put four candles placed in all four directions
The key to eating the mushrooms is eating them totally covered with honey
You eat them two at a time, as it represents the male and female
And when you eat the mushrooms, you actually never swallow
You chew and chew and the mucous membranes of your tongue take the psilocin straight to the brain and spine
He says once it starts to take effect, it feels like there is a snake up your spine (He mentions his friends call this Kundalini)
Then you go out and Quetzalcoatl will come
When he comes, he is like a rainbow jeweled serpent, an embodiment of pure light, pure energy, pure love
Tom says the next day it feels like you’re 10 years younger
Its a pure force of love, an obliteration of the concept of time
Quetzalcoatl created this ceremony to bring about the serpent for healing, for a balance of male and female
This ceremony is best done during the night, with thunderstorms in the mountains
Ceremony with Maria Sabina
One night they went to see Maria Sabina
She agreed to do a ceremony at night
Her house was in the mountains and had a thatched roof with no windows or doors and sometimes clouds would come through her house
During a ceremony a lightning bolt came though the house, in one window and out the other
Maria’s daughter gave him truffle like mushrooms and he brought them back with him
Maria’s daughter really tried to learn his name, she repeated it a multitude of times until she said it exactly perfectly so she could say it during the ceremony
Quetzalcoatl Messages
God gave us love and pain
We have to learn how to celebrate the pain
God gave us knowledge, and tools of how to heal the pain
Tom’s goal is to teach people how to take the sacred mushrooms to meet Quetzalcoatl and find healing, love and peace
“Once you get rid of the ego, you get rid of fear, and then you have love.” – Tom
The only way you can overcome hatred and fear is with love
The body is teaching the mind when consuming the sacred mushroom
It’s best to just try to love people and be kind, and it’s all acts of kindness and love that makes a person feel good
Tom, Author, has a Bachelors in Forestry from the University of Tennessee and a Masters from the University of Florida in Science Education and Middle School Education. He has worked full time in the Solar Energy field as a Contractor and Trainer and has a background in Mushrooms. Tom spent some time in 1973 living in the jungles of Palenque in Mexico and learn about mushrooms and mushroom ceremony. Tom is the Author of the book, Sacred Mushroom Rituals, The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Alexander Belser, a Clinical Researcher who has done a variety of works in the psychotherapy and psychedelic fields, helping patients heal from depression, OCD, suicide, and other illnesses, all while focusing on gender neutrality and equality. In this episode, they cover topics on privilege, inclusivity and recommendations for the psychedelic space.
3 Key Points:
Privilege is commonly seen in therapist roles and as well in an individual’s access to treatment. It’s important for the psychedelic community to be vocal about privilege and be inclusive of all types of people, all repressed groups.
Psychedelics have the power to help people come to terms with their own sexuality, as well as become accepting of other individuals sexual identification.
In order to see more equality in the psychedelic space, we need to confront structural heterosexism and transfobia, retire the male/female therapy diad, and develop acknowledgement in the psychedelic world of the stresses that LGBTQ people face.
Alexander started attending psychedelic conferences in college
He works at Yale currently, treating individuals with major depressive disorders with psilocybin assisted psychotherapy
He lives in New York and works on a team for the MAPS, MDMA trial for the treatment of PTSD
Queering Psychedelics
Queering Psychedelics is a Conference put on with the help of Chacruna
Its an opportunity for Queer folk to come together and talk about psychedelic medicine
Alexander’s presentation was on Queer Critique for the Psychedelic Mystical Experience
Privilege and Inclusivity
People with more privilege have more power, more access to funding, more access to expanding the research agenda
Many of the people in psychedelic research are privileged, white, cisgender individuals (and Alexander believes they are using the privilege for good)
But it’s important for the psychedelic community to be vocal about privilege and be inclusive of all types of people, all repressed groups
Alexander thinks that we need to eliminate the male/female diad
The typical structure for psychedelic therapy is to have a male cisgender therapist and a female cisgender therapist
But Alexander thinks this is gender essentializing
Its totalizing of gender, assuming that the masculinity is held by the male therapist, and femininity is held by the female therapist
Alexander thinks that the therapists should be more gender neutral
Its essential to assess the individual needs of the client for specific gender pairing
Recommendations
Alexander’s Reccomendations
Confront Structural Heterosexism and Transfobia
Retire the Male/Female Therapy Diad
Acknowledgement in the Psychedelic world of the stress that LGBTQ people face
We need to be able to run moderation analyses to see if a type of psychedelic treatment works the same for sexual minority populations as it does for straight folks
Are there unique clinical considerations for sexual minorities?
The psychedelic Renaissance is maturing and reaching a point where our approaches can be more inclusive
He thinks it’s important for straight folks to think about this too
“We all suffer, including straight folks, in a world where the idea of gender and sexuality is firmly printed as either being A or B. It’s a disservice to our identities.” – Alexander
It is common to feel “oneness” after a psychedelic experience, and it’s common for gender roles to change throughout the process
And on the flip side, maybe our perception of other people’s gender (homophobia) transforms from a psychedelic experience, and we can become more accepting of other forms of gender
Mystical Experience
When people score higher on the mystical experience questionnaire (profound unity, transcendence of time and space) its predictive of their improvements on depression and anxiety
It’s important to be mindful of what value we put on marginalized people’s psychedelic experiences
The most common issue Alexander sees is people feeling ‘stuck’ in these bodies
Psychedelic medicine encourages (at least in appeal) embodiment
Final Thoughts
First, we need to come to terms with our own internalized homophobia, transphobia and racism
Together, we learn from each other, how to dismantle types of patriarchal, homophibic and transphobic structures
MDMA expanded access may probably end up being very expensive, we need to think about privilege and access to mental healthcare broadly
It’s not just about diversity, Alexander encourages people to create allies
He has hope that we can proceed with integrity in these topics
Alexander Belser, Ph.D., is a Clinical Research Fellow and clinical supervisor at Yale University. He is the Co-Investigator of two studies at Yale exploring psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy to treat OCD and depression. His research with sexual minority people has focused on preventing suicide among adolescents and on the protective role of gay-straight alliances for students. Dr. Belser was a founding member of the Psychedelic Research Group at NYU in 2006, and he is currently an Adjunct Faculty member in NYU’s graduate program in Counseling Psychology. He has been a researcher on various psychedelic studies of depression, anxiety, OCD, addiction, trauma, and among religious leaders. He is a study therapist for the MAPS study of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD. Dr. Belser serves as a peer reviewer and has published peer-reviewed articles on topics such as psychedelic mysticism, altruism, patient experiences in psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy, cancer and psychedelic therapy, case studies, psilocybin treatment and posttraumatic growth (forthcoming).
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In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Ido Cohen, co-founder of The Integration Circle. In the show, they talk about themes that arise from transformative experiences and the different ways to integrate them through attitude change, environment, and community.
3 Key Points:
A common theme after a transformative experience is the calling for an attitude change. The experience is only the first step, the integration is where the real work begins.
The environment is a critical part of integration. You can’t always change your environment, but you can change your relationship to it by forming new coping mechanisms than the ones used before a transformative experience.
Joining consciousness events, finding a therapist and looking for integration circles are all great way to not feel so ashamed or alone after a transformative experience.
Ido is a Clinical Psychologist based in San Francisco
He works with individuals and couples in integration groups
Ido graduated from the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)
He did his post-doctoral internship at C.G. Jung Institute in San Francisco
He went to India and it opened up the psycho-spiritual realm for him
He realized there is a lot more to this reality than what we see
He had a powerful Ayahuasca experience, and it led him to choose his dissertation project
He wanted to know how to take his experience and integrate it into his daily life
Integration
Ido began talking to people who had big transformative Ayahuasca experiences (pre, during and after)
He interviewed people at a year out of an Ayahuasca experience, so they had time to reflect
“For most people, something is calling them. Either curiosity or suffering.” – Ido
The message comes through a relationship that we are having with something
People felt that they had to go through something personal before they were able to go into archetypal realms
A theme afterward was a difficulty of re-entry (integration)
Another common theme was people realizing that they need to change their attitude in order to heal
It starts with small steps, maybe instead of watching TV for 2 hours you go for a hike for 2 hours, you open up to make room for change
Ego and Self
Jung’s idea of ego-Self axis; there is the ego that takes things and organizes them and processes things into our reality, and then the self that is the unconscious, the imaginary and dream state
The idea is to look at the relationship between the two
Are they fighting or are they in harmony?
The role of community is so important
“We need to learn to integrate not just the negatives, but also the positives.” – Ido
Having pleasurable experiences can feel unsafe to a person who has been through a lifetime of negatives
Transformative Experiences
Personal and Environmental
Most people have these experiences, and come back to the same urban environment, the same work mindset, the same cultural ideas about “achieving”, the instant coffee mentality
“We want things fast because we don’t want to suffer, we don’t want to wait, we don’t want to invest, we don’t want to change.” – Ido
“When people come back with this new experience but to an old environment, then the question is, ‘How can I not let the pressure of this old environment get in the way of my experience?’” – Ido
It really is all about changing your attitude
Maybe go journaling, go into nature, go dancing, etc.
“How do I honor my process and not succumb to the pressures of using the same coping mechanisms as I had before?” – Ido
Integration is a complex process
Environment
You can’t always change your environment, but you can change your relationship to your environment
You can start looking for integration circles
You can start looking for therapy
You can go to consciousness events, meditation/yoga groups
It really depends on the person but it’s all about finding resources that help you feel more connected, less ashamed, and less alone
One of Ido’s clients said to him “I realize I have to break my own heart if I really want to change”
Spiritual Bypass
Ido suggests a great book on understanding spiritual bypass
Dr. Ido Cohen is a clinical psychologist who got his doctoral from the California Institute of Integral Studies. He practices relational and depth-oriented psychotherapy with individuals and couples in San Francisco. As his Doctoral research, he conducted a 6-year study on the integration process of ayahuasca ceremonies from a Jungian perspective and has been providing preparation and integration services to individuals/couples/ groups in the bay area. He is also the co-founder of The Integration Circle, a community of practitioners who offer integration circles as well as diverse support to those who are preparing or integrating experiences of expanded states of consciousness.
Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Ben Eddy, a Black Belt from Eddy Bravo’s 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. In this episode, they cover a range of topics on Jiu Jitsu, Psychedelics and flow state.
3 Key Points:
Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything. Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ type of game, and it allowed him to tap into a flow state.
Psychedelics have the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns, and when combined with a sport like Jiu Jitsu, you’re able to achieve a type of embodiment you wouldn’t have before.
We do not need to rush into psychedelics at a young age. It is important to experience life for what it is first, and to feel that fully to have a comparison to after diving into the psychedelic realm.
Ben got into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu when looking for a way to get in shape
He was in San Francisco in the tech scene
He was into wrestling in his past and competition and he found that Jiu Jitsu was similar
His main instructor, Eddie Bravo, was training for a match
He wanted to be around the energy of this event
He moved down to southern California and that is where his psychedelic use began
Ben knew that when he was going to do psychedelics, there was going to be a before and after, that there were going to be doors that were going to be opened
He says he took the time to really understand the sober life before psychedelics, in order to know the difference
Ben describes it as a cool opportunity to wait to use psychedelics, he had the choice to wait and experience life and figure out what life is before psychedelics
Joe says for the younger listeners “meditate on that”, figure out life first before diving into psychedelics
Strategy vs Flow
Before Jiu Jitsu, Ben says he was very analytical, thinking of the most efficient, fastest way to complete anything
Jiu Jitsu is an ‘in the moment’ game, where there is more of a ‘flow state’
He was running into people that could just ‘find answers in the moment’, there was no plan or no strategy, it was a natural flow
Psychedelics and Training
Training with an active dose was hard to get to at the start
Ben trains now with active doses
It has the ability to imprint you and change your thought patterns
Ben’s active dose is 2 grams of mushrooms during a practice
Ben does mention that all people are different and his active dose is different than anyone else’s
Jiu Jitsu makes you bring everything that you have up to the forefront in that moment
Feeling is a way of knowing, especially in these flow states
He says that weed is commonly used in Jiu Jitsu, but he hasn’t seen a whole lot of Psychedelic use yet
Ben says that weed helps you drop into the one instrument that you’re trying to play, get into that flow state
Jiu Jitsu is a sport of form, technique, and dance, it’s not about strength
Origins
Jiu Jitsu came from Japan and their Judo
Then it came to Brazil and mixed with the beach vibes and turned into Jiu Jitsu
Then it came to the west and our beaches and developed into what it is today
Kyle mentions the idea of using Paul Stamets ‘microdosing’, psilocybin, lions mane and niacin
In that state we are creating new neurogenesis and neural pathways and being in that state may make us learn differently
Kyle says its an interesting application for performance and new ways of learning
Ben says the goal is to get to a certain level of embodiment, at every point you’re trying to be present in the here and now
Music
After Jiu Jitsu, music took on a whole new color, feel and wave for Ben than it did before
He thought music was a distraction
Once he started to play with flow more, he began to open up to music to live in it
Jiu Jitsu and the flow state really start with the breath
Its like breathing in and accepting life, and the exhale is where it all lets go
Ben Eddy is a Blackbelt at 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu system. Starting off in the tech scene in San Fransisco, Ben relocated to southern California, where he began his journey into Jiu Jitsu, psychedelics and tapping into the flow state. He currently travels and competes.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview Hamilton Souther, Shaman of Blue Morpho. In this episode, they cover Hamilton’s incredible journey from Western life into becoming a Shaman and the spirit teachings that he experienced along the way.
3 Key Points:
Hamilton Souther, a Shaman of Blue Morpho, shares his experience from living a normal Western life to his journey of his calling, learning and training to become a Shaman. He shares amazing examples of connectedness and spirit while living amongst the natives.
A common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony is that the plants care for you. The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving.
Shamanic training is a long and extremely difficult journey. Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it.
He had some near death experiences and accidents when he was younger
The year after he graduated from college he would go into spontaneous awakenings and altered states of consciousness while totally sober
He would have really intense visionary experiences in those states
Those experiences were so powerful which led him into training and into his Ayahuasca experiences
He felt without purpose and gave himself up to something greater
He turned to shamanism to try to explain the nature of those experiences
Spontaneous Awakening
Kyle mentions that this can happen, that substances are not always required for an ‘awakening’
Hamilton says he wanted to connect to something other than himself
The path took him to Peru, and there was a possibility of meeting people with Ayahuasca
He was being called to it and knew they were real and it led to his ‘apprenticeship’ as a Shaman
It wasn’t by accident that he was there, he had visions that he was supposed to stay there and to learn
Discernment
Coming from a scientific background, he demanded (from the spirit guide) that the process be practical and grounded in reason and logic
He used doubt in a way that he was able to use a lot of proof and truth toward his belief system rather than just being naive and believing these messages too early
He couldn’t envision how to evolve from the vomiting, defecating human on the ground to the composed shaman in the room
Even though he spoke the language, he couldn’t understand what the people were saying when they shared their stories
It seemed like a different world to him
The first few years were learning how to survive in the jungle and learn how to live off of the food
He says it was like reliving his childhood, he had no idea how to walk through the forest like he knew how to walk down a street growing up
The first house he lived in out of college was one he built himself with locals
These experiences were so far from what he grew up in
Toward the end of his apprenticeship, ceremony started to look less impossible and more of something he would dedicate his life to
Spirit
In the indigenous communities, everybody sees spirits, especially at night
And not just in the Ayahuasca culture, its everybody. They thought the jungle was literally alive with spirits
They would say things like “call me if you need me” and they meant it telepathically
Hamilton says “sure enough, they do answer when you call”.
He was in Southern Peru at a pizzeria, and they were in ceremony, and they started to call to him
He had to excuse himself from the table and go outside and sit with himself and went into an Ayahuasca vision and the two men in ceremony said to him in the vision “we just wanted to call to say hi”
So Hamilton, using his doubt, wrote down the place and the time of when this happened, and when he returned from his travels and got back to the community, the two men gave him the coordinates and time where Hamilton was when they called him. It matched perfectly
He realized then and there that they had a very different understanding of the forest and of space time and they were tapped into another kind of knowledge and wisdom
That’s what he was looking for when he came down to the Amazon in the first place
“The mysteries of consciousness are really unexplored and are not studied by science at all” – Hamilton
For Westerners, reality and how it is experienced is just a tiny slice of total consciousness
“When you’re in the amazon, and you’re living in the forest and you’re participating in these visionary experiences, you see the interconnectedness of life.” – Hamilton
“Globally we’ve all agreed that education, literacy and participating in the economy is worth it. I think it’s worth it to really address on a massive scale what were facing collectively. It’s a part of our natural evolution.” – Hamilton
The plants have a very specific role to play, and that they care
That’s a common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony, that the plants care for you
The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving
Especially with the environmental crisis, people who turn to Ayahuasca start to care for the environment
Psychedelic plants have a huge role to play in global life, individual growth and collective change
Blue Morpho
Its a center that Hamilton and the shamans that he works with created
They did a ceremony to talk with the plants to make sure that this was okay to use as an offering to everyone
It started in 2003 and evolved over the years to practice traditional ceremony and now San Pedro
People come from all over the world to visit them
The majority of the people are really coming for the right reasons, with clear intentions for transformation, growth, exploration and personal healing
Over 17 years they have focused on bettering services and professionalism and they believe they have truly succeeded
Ayahuasca is just one aspect of Amazonian plant medicine
There are hundred of plants with medicinal healing properties
The Dieta is a period of time where you go into deep individual isolation and connection to a specific medicinal plant where you create a relationship with a plant
Then you go into the Ayahuasca ceremony and Icaros are sung and you drink the Ayahuasca
Then the Dieta is a time where there are restrictions such as abstinence, no alcohol, strict food diet, no medications, etc. and you go into a meditative state for healing for a time of a few days, to weeks to even months
Shaman Training
Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it
Then, you find a lineage of shamans that are willing to accept you (if you aren’t born into a lineage of shamans)
It’s a journey, and you have to find a group of people open for training
It’s different from any kind of training from the western world, it’s a tremendous journey, and it could take years to decades
Its meant to be a test, and incredibly difficult
When Hamilton trained, he was told that 1 out of 100 make it to be actual shamans
It’s really a job of service, not an exalted one
The reason the training is so incredibly difficult, is so that you can sit with people, who are going through extremely difficult, and transformational experiences and you can be there for them and love and support them unconditionally with the strength gained through the training process
“Its a role of service, you have to be able to deal with any form of suffering that people come to you with.” – Hamilton
Final Thoughts
Stay open minded
He warns about a dystopian world
We need to be the change makers, and there is a lot we can do
We are incredibly powerful, especially when we are united in common goals
Whether they are about human rights or the climate
Hamilton focuses his work on Universal Spiritual Philosophy. He is bilingual in English and Spanish, has a Bachelors degree in Anthropology, and has studied shamanism in California, Cusco, and the Amazon. Hamilton was given the title of Master Shaman by Alberto Torres Davila and Julio Llerena Pinedo after completing an apprenticeship under Alberto and Julio. He guides ceremonies and leads shamanic workshops, in which he shares Universal Spiritual Philosophy.
With the resurgence of psychedelics and the important research into the many therapeutic benefits – from Ketamine for treatment-resistant depression, to MDMA for PTSD, and Ibogaine for addiction recovery, and much more, the myriad lineages of traditional ceremonial and healing ways, as well as the flourishing of radical creativity with entheogenic use, the festival communities, we are all in a time of transformation and potential change for the healing and upliftment of each other and our planet.
These times, and working in these sacred and subtle, sensitive realms require ethics that far surpasses the standards that dictate dominant paradigm interactions. Holding space in a sacred way means attunement, humility, honoring, and most of all, putting aside what you think you know about what’s happening, in service to the one in spontaneous or entheogenically-induced Spiritual Emergence (SE).
The states of heightened sensitivity, openness to multidimensional realms, and to others’ energies requires extra responsibility – the ability to be responsive – on the part of the one who was holding space, witnessing, and guiding. The ones who are in the role of holding vigil must be as attuned as the survivors of trauma and spiritual emergency themselves have had to be.
Those of us who have lived experience of both spontaneous and entheogenically-induced non or extra-ordinary states may be activated and opened into psychic gifts – beholden to the underlying layers of realities and agendas – and when we share our visions and insights, the trauma of both being gaslit and pathologized are damaging in compounding denial of our truth!
In this time of the great revealing, what is hidden is coming to the surface to be seen, held, metabolized, transmuted, and the ethical requirement is that we all make contact with radical openness, radical compassion, and radical humility, contacting the reality that each of us is a bearer of truth, of wisdom, and thus we all deserve to be recognized as embodied divinity and treated with respect and care!
I was traumatized in two different medicine communities, due to lack of attunement, gaslighting, and negligence on behalf of the facilitators, guides, and space-holders. My spiritual emergency and subsequent hospitalizations are directly related to the openings of these intense and deep transformational processes- access to my deepest grief and fear, which had they been held properly, ethically, and responsibly, could have been some of the most healing and corrective experiences of my life, but instead they were some of the most re-traumatizing and isolating.
These spaces, ceremonies, ways are meant to induce opening, initiation, recalibration, and transmutation. When held out of alignment, they become potentially violating, dangerous, and re-wounding, especially for those who have had a history of trauma. As the research shows, entheogenic therapies are potentially very effective in recovery and healing in the right conditions.
What are ethically-held entheogenic containers, therapies, and ceremonies? I can tell you it is NOT forced touch, pushing farther, harder, deeper, or more. It IS attunement, respect, consent, and letting go of agendas. Allowing the Sacred Process to unfold, being guided by Spirit, and the Inner Healer. That is to say, the Inner Healer of the client, and following the needs, and being responsive and responsible to the client. And the necessity for each and every psychedelic therapist and guide to be trained in Spiritual Emergence Support and integration, resources, and acknowledging that the opening into SE through entheogenic use as well as spontaneously, is a deeply transformative process that deserves the utmost care, holding, and respect, as it is inherently an Awakening process, and why we are here in this Time-
To heal together, to return to Wholeness, and to support the activation of our gifts and capacities to be of service to one another and the Planet.
(I delivered this transmission at Will Hall’s Event on 5/4/19 at Oakland Omni Commons)
Featured Image: “Etheric Motherboard of the New Paradigm” by David Wyatt
About the Author
MichelleAnne Hobart, MA, SEC, AMFT is a teacher, writer, energy worker, and Associate Marriage and Family Therapist at Holos Institute. She trained as a Spiritual Emergence Coach with Emma Bragdon and collaborates with the Gnosis Retreat Center project. Her love for the Earth and education was exemplified in her past as a high school Biology and Health teacher working in the Baltimore parochial school system after receiving her BS in Biology from University of Maryland Baltimore County. Deeply longing to immerse herself in the subtle realms, she was drawn to the Bay Area to continue her studies. With her MA in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness from California Institute of Integral Studies, she continued her own personal journey of healing, and then sharing that path with others through her wellness center and intuitive collective. She has been in states of Spiritual Emergence throughout her life to varying degrees, and entered a state of Spiritual Emergency in 2013.. She completed and released her first book, Becoming Sacred Space in 2016. Then, in 2018, Michelle graduated from the Integral Counseling Psychology program at CIIS, and is currently finishing her second book, about Spiritual Emergence.
In this episode, Joe talks with Shane LeMaster, Licensed Addiction Counselor and Certified Mental Performance Consultant. Shane is also involved in Psychotherapy as well as Sport and Performance Psychology and Psychedelic Integration Therapy. In this episode they cover a range of topics such as social work, Ketamine, sensory deprivation, psychedelic icons and the psychedelic culture.
3 Key Points:
Shane has a podcast of his own, and his goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them, to master the potential of our minds.
Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics. Its also a great place to start for therapy.
Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
If we don’t have differences then we won’t have styles to choose from.
Joe and Shane met up recently at a Psychedelic Club meeting about harm reduction in Fort Collins
Shane just got accepted into the PhD program in social work at CSU
He had been pursuing a PhD program in psychology and it wasn’t working out for him so he decided to take the social work route
He works with many people and has developed a strong skill set on the micro level and he wants to start making impact on a macro level with helping people
Social Work
Shane thinks of social work as an integrative approach for every discipline that we find useful, to come to a holistic, greater understanding of an issue
Shane wants to use Ketamine as a ‘medium’ term goal, because it’s legal
But ketamine is not where he is going to stop, he finds there are benefits in many other substances
He would love to work with LSD and Psilocybin
He will continue to offer his services through his business Mind Ops
Shane’s Podcast – Conversations with the Mind
His goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them
It’s important to create dialogue and invite people for conversation with differing opinions
The goal is to create a theory that implements both opinions
Ketamine
Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics
Shane has had a lot of personal and recreational experiences on Ketamine and when he returns to it as a medicine, he is able to attain and sharpen skills for mindfulness
Joe brings up the idea that recreational ketamine could have the ability to bring up past trauma or may re-traumatize someone if not used therapeutically
Ketamine has a lot of risks, but being educated and using the substance correctly can be absolutely beneficial
Shane says we shouldn’t try to avoid trauma, we should accept it and use it for good and let it power us
“Sometimes we don’t even know what were suppressing. We need some assistance to show us what were avoiding in life and I think that psychedelics help with that a lot.” – Shane
Sensory Deprivation
Shane says he’s interested in John Lilly’s work from back in the day and his terminology of being able to meta-program your human brain
Joe says John Lilly was a big part of isolation chambers which led to float tanks
Psychedelic Icons
Joe mentions Robert Anton Wilson, he was good friends with Timothy Leary
“My interest is not in psychedelics themselves, but psychedelics as a means to access higher states of who we are, parts we have forgotten.” – Shane
Psychedelics are just one way to tap into ourselves and discover our ultimate potential
“We should all be questioning, everyday, changing our belief systems” – Shane
“Belief is the death of intelligence” – Robert Anton Wilson
Shane says a lot of people give Leary a bad rap, but Shane appreciates what he has done
Joe mentions ‘smile squared’ – Space, migration, intelligence and life extension
TFYQA – Think for yourself question authority
“Turn on, Tune in, Drop out” – Timothy Leary
Shane says that phrase sticks with him, it called to his rebel phase in youth to grow and do this work in his life
The Psychedelic Culture
Splitting – a rephrase of divide and conquer
Joe says the psychedelic world is very cut throat
“We should take care of each other a bit more in this space” – Joe
Shane says, we need to lift each other up versus look for ways to step over each other
Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
If we don’t have differences then we don’t have styles to choose from
“We can’t become fundamentalists in our own practices, we need to value the differences culturally and from a world view. They are all valuable.” – Shane
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.
He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.
His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.
On May 8th, the city of Denver, Colorado voted yes on I-301, which decriminalizes the possession and use of psilocybin-containing mushrooms. The official results will be certified on May 16th. As of May 9th – the unofficial results are – yes (50.6%) and no (49.4%).
I-301 decriminalizes adult (21 years or older) possession and use of Psilocybin mushrooms – making these offenses the lowest priority for law enforcement. This initiative also prohibits law enforcement to spend money and resources enforcing arresting adults with possession of mushrooms.
Joe Moore recorded with Sean McCallister who is an attorney who helped advise Decriminalize Denver. If you want to learn about what decriminalization in Denver is really all about – tune in here. Expect to hear more from Sean in the future.
Sean T. McAllister is one of the nation’s leading cannabis business attorneys, licensed to practice law in both Colorado and California. Sean’s legal work focuses on the complex interplay between corporate law and state cannabis regulatory structures and federal law. Sean is a recognized leader in the cannabis industry. In 2004, he founded Sensible Colorado, which worked on all of the ballot initiatives in Colorado that culminated in recreational cannabis legalization in 2012.
In this episode, Joe talks with Matthew Remski, yoga teacher, consultant and author. In the show they talk about high demand group life and their cultic mechanisms, and the after effects of living in a high demand group setting.
3 Key Points:
Matthew Remski shares his experience of spending most of his 20’s in cults, and his healing journey afterward.
Cults aren’t defined by their content (political, religious, psychedelic), they are defined by their element of control. Another term for a ‘cult’ is a high demand group.
High demand groups can be very appealing from the outside, no one signs up for the rape, torture, or manipulative experiences that happen inside of a cult. And the after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, such as PTSD, inability to form romantic relationships, etc.
Yoga was a safe space of retreat and recuperation after being in cults
He was in a cult for 3 years led by Michael Roach at the Asian Classics Institute
He was in Endeavor Academy for 6 years in Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin
These experiences gave him group dynamic perspective
Yoga gave him somatic autonomy, and allowed him to feel himself again after the cultic nature of the groups
He spent age 22-29 in these groups where we would have built some sort of career, and he didn’t
He became a yoga teacher and opened his own yoga studio as a part of his healing
Cults
People end up doing harm to themselves, or do things that they didn’t sign up for
An organization misrepresents itself, and presents itself as a safe haven for people who may be vulnerable for any reason
High Demand Organization, along with other synonyms, are other words for ‘cult’
‘Self Sealed’ implies that everything that happens within the group is to have the individual think it’s for the ‘good’, a ‘bounded choice’ environment (saying that sexual advances or torture are a part of the development toward enlightenment, for example)
The high demand group rewires a person’s attachment patterns to make them ‘unattached’
The content of the cult doesn’t matter (religious, psychedelic, political, etc), it’s the element of control that is the same amongst true cults
There can be political groups that aren’t cults, but the element of control is what defines it as a cult
Octavio Rettig and Gerry Sandoval
They are perhaps responsible for multiple deaths (maybe not directly but through negligence)
They use 5-MEO-DMT with abuse and malpractice
Cult Impact
The impact from a cult can be cognitive, labor related, relationship/family oriented, etc.
Matthew says the estrangement from his family has taken over a decade to repair
The relationships he had prior, has been unable to restored
His identity was changed for him through social coercion
“The cult takes its best possible part of you for its own agenda” – Matthew
The after effects from high demand group life can be extreme, they can have PTSD, they may not be able to form romantic bonds, they may become estranged from their family, etc.
Recent estimates in the US alone say that there are 8,000 high demand groups
These dynamics can be found in many organizations
Wild Wild Country – When a controversial cult leader builds a Utopian city in the Oregon desert, conflict with the locals escalates into a national scandal
Psychotherapy Cult
Psychotherapy cults look like a Buddhist or yoga cult but with different group practice techniques
They will depend upon group psychotherapy that break down and humiliate members and create fear that looks like love and acceptance
It includes members revealing intense secrets so they become vulnerable
Practice And All Is Coming: Abuse, Cult Dynamics, And Healing In Yoga And Beyond
Matthew’s book is applicable in many different community constellations
His intention is to help foster critical thinking and community health
Joe says that anyone in a group dynamic or especially those leading groups (such as an ayahuasca circle) need to read this book
Matthew has been practicing meditation and yoga since 1996, sitting and moving with teachers from the Tibetan Buddhist, Kripalu, Ashtanga, and Iyengar streams. Along the way he has trained as a yoga therapist and an Ayurvedic consultant, and maintained a private practice in Toronto from 2007 to 2015. From 2008 through 2012, he co-directed Yoga Festival Toronto and Yoga Community Toronto, non-profit activist organizations dedicated to promoting open dialogue and accessibility. During that same period, he studied jyotiśhāstra in a small oral-culture setting at the Vidya Institute in Toronto. Matthew currently facilitates programming for yoga trainings internationally, focusing on yoga philosophy, meditation, Ayurveda, and the social psychology of practice. In all subject areas, he encourages students to explore how yoga practice can resist the psychic and material dominance of neoliberalism, and the quickening pace of environmental destruction.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview music artist, East Forest. Influenced by psychedelic Psilocybin sessions, Trevor Oswalt, the mind behind the project, produces soundtracks for psychedelic journeywork sessions.
3 Key Points:
East Forest is a music artist and producer with a mission to create a playground of doors for listeners to open and to explore their inner space.
His recent project, ‘Ram Dass’, captures the words of wisdom of Ram Dass and pairs it with sound, a project with four chapters that will release throughout 2019.
Ayahuasca is connected to the Icaros, but psilocybin doesn’t have a music ritual. His goal with his project, Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner, is to bring ritual to psilocybin journeywork.
East Forest is a 10 years and running music project that unfolded exploring into sharing and medicine circles and developed into a public interface
Its based around introspection and tools for people to use
Between retreats, podcasts and live performance, Trevor is inviting people in to assist with their journeys
Ram Dass
Trevor is working on a 4 part record project with Ram Dass
He had the idea to do a record with spiritual teachers
Ram Dass had a stroke 20 years ago, and he got Aphasia from it
It would take him 15-30 minutes to answer a question, so Trevor would put it to the music and put Ram’s words on the pauses in the music
His wisdom and story would come alive in the songs
The first time Ram Dass did psilocybin was with Timothy Leary and he said it changed his life
Ram Dass talks about the ‘witness consciousness’ a viewpoint of things from the soul
It is a place where you can love everyone and tell your truth and accept your dark thoughts
You can’t get rid of your dark thoughts, but you can learn to live with them
Journeywork Soundtrack
Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner
Its a 5 hour playlist for journeywork that guides you and helps you do the work
He made it live during his own journeywork session over a weekend the previous summer
He says he is influenced by Keith Jarrett, who does long form pianist pieces
Joe says trance in music is under explored
Trevor describes a trip that he had where he took mushrooms and listened to his own (first) album that he made
“It was as if I created this album without knowing what I was creating. My soul had tricked my ego into doing it so I could use it as a tool in that moment to transform into something new.” – Trevor
There is a lot of music, science, and arts that are inspired by psychedelics
He describes its a symbiotic relationship between psychedelics and music
That’s the thing about art, you put it out there and everyone puts their own meaning to it
His first experience with psychedelics was in college with mushrooms
He was outside at a festival and it was a very transcendent, blissful experience
Retreats
He attends retreats where there is either yoga, wilderness hikes or mainly revolved around music
He does a retreat using music at Esalen with his partner, Marisa Radha Weppner
They are doing another retreat in June at Esalen during the summer solstice and he will also be releasing the third chapter of the Ram Dass Record
He went to Vassar college in New York and there were pianos all over the school, he learned how to play simple songs and was shocked of how great it sounded coming to life and that fed on itself and he was hooked
His first album was made in iMac with pro tools and his skills developed from there
Sound quality is critical in journeywork
Joe’s friend has mentioned that it’s hard to make a living as a music creator, she goes by Living Light
Joe also mentions a festival he attended listening to Reed Mathis and the Electric Beethoven
They went on a 20-30 minute talk about how the music is a ritual
Kyle used to lead some hikes, once was with Trevor Hall and it has gotten more common to collaborate these experiences with music
Live Music
During Ayahuasca, the shamans sing the Icaros, and the song is a part of the ritual
No one uses Ayahuasca recreationally, the ceremony has never been detached from the drug
With psilocybin, in the western culture, it’s almost always only been used recreationally
His goal was to create a new musical tradition that would speak to our western years and make sense to us without taking from another religion and putting it to our ritual
East Forest is an American Ambient/Electronic/Contemporary Classical/Indie Pop artist from Portland, Oregon, United States. The project was created by Trevor Oswalt who derived “East Forest” from the German translation of his last name. To date he has released eight full-length albums and six EPs. East Forest’s newest release, “RAM DASS” is a full length album releasing in collaboration with the acclaimed spiritual teacher. Covering topics such as dark thoughts, nature, the soul and so much more, these songs are full of inspiration. The album will release in four “chapters” throughout 2019, culminating in a full length release on August 9, 2019.
In this Bonus episode The Teafaerie and Joe Moore get into lots of great topics. Enjoy! !
The Teafaerie micro-bio(me)
The Teafaerie is a writer, flow arts teacher, ruespieler, toy inventor, app designer, street performer, party promoter, and superhero. erowid.org/columns/teafaerie
In this episode, Joe holds conversation with Dr. Michael Sapiro, Clinical Psychologist out of Boise, Idaho. They cover topics surrounding how meditation and mindfulness intersect with psychedelia as well as psychic ability, altered states and integration.
3 Key Points:
Meditation and psychedelics have a lot of overlap such as ego dissolution and unity.
Dr. Sapiro believes that meditation and mindfulness bring personal awakening in order to create collective transformation.
Both meditation and psychedelics are the most beneficial when they are integrated into our waking life and when we use our experiences to help others and our planet.
It’s a dissolving type of experience, Its a non-dualistic style of tradition
The non-dual tradition helps one just be “whole and unbroken” and focus on the present and now
He does the human work in the Buddhism Dharma style, and the spiritual work with the restful piece of being in the now, the focus being integration
Vision
His vision has been on enhancing personal awakening in order to create collective transformation
He wants to help communities and states and nations to transform via individual awakening
He has worked with law enforcement agents, military vets, community members, a variety of people at different levels all the way from grounding to stability to thriving
He always ends each Sangha with saying ‘take this work and apply it to your neighbors’
A Sangha is a buddhist community of monks/individuals in support of each other
“People have such a deep connection to nature when you come out of the psychedelic experience. You start taking care of the environment differently than before went you went in.” – Michael
“We now have data on greater environmental concern and stewardship after the psychedelic experience.” – Joe
People who are consciously interacting with things outside of themselves have a greater care for those things. “If I am hurting the world I am hurting myself.” – Michael
“Hopefully one of the bigger things that come out of the psychedelic movement are greater levels of environmentalism and global stewardship” – Joe
The psychedelic movement helps us see systems that are made up are a part of our tangible reality and our responsibility to take care of the people in the systems
We can use psychedelics and meditation, and integration from these experiences, to see how we can operate in these systems and help people find resources in these systems
One of his colleagues has reached over 200,000 people with their work since 2011
His goal isn’t to be the lead, but the support of leaders, especially women because he feels the need for a balance and the need for more female leaders
Michael says he loves surrounding himself around ‘world-changers’ and loves doing anything to be around them and learn from them
Boise, Idaho
Michael says its surprisingly conscious state
Its very community oriented
There are 6-7 Buddhist Sanghas, groups of dedicated folks to their practice
There is a lot of nature and nature is Dharma, it is the teacher
Psychic Ability and Altered States
It’s very normal for humans to have psychic experiences
All of us have access to these states, we just have to tap into them
Michael encourages people to accept and cultivate these experiences
It may be better to accept these experiences than to deny them
There is a difference between energetic flow and psychosis
Crazy Wise is a documentary that touches on spiritual emergence issues
The Overlap of Psychedelic States and Meditation
The Institute of Noetic Sciences had a program called The Future of Meditation Research
They found in the research that they were only looking at reducing anxiety and depression, the clinical applications
But they found that more than half of the people experienced psychic phenomenon, mystical experiences, terrifying experiences, the things that overlap/correlate with psychedelic experiences
Both meditative and psychedelic experiences point to ego dissolution and unity at the same time
Ego and anxiety both have wisdom in them, we don’t want to lose them completely, but learn how to balance them and use them wisely
“We need to be mindful of how we integrate what we learn in the psychedelic/meditative state into our waking life” – Michael
“How can meditation and psychedelics lend themselves to being the best version of ourselves while committing to others well being? That is what I am most passionate about.” – Michael
Michael Sapiro, PsyD is a clinical psychologist, Dharma teacher, meditation researcher, and former Buddhist monk. He is on faculty at Esalen Institute and is a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where he engages in research on meditation, transformation, and consciousness. He completed his postdoctoral fellowship in advanced psychology at the Boise VA Medical Center where he specialized in rural health, PTSD, and combat trauma. Dr. Sapiro teaches nationally on the art and science of transformation, expanded human capabilities, self-care, and meditation for personal and community growth. He is the founding teacher of Maitri Sangha Boise, an integrated Buddhist community, and director of Maitri House Yoga, LLC, serving the community through integrating meditation practices, psychology, noetic sciences, and social justice. He can be found at maitrihouseyoga.com. He and his wife, Chef Sararak, own and operate Lime and a Coconut: The Art of Thai Cuisine, and together lead international meditation and culinary retreats to Thailand.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe host Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown, Authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art. The book showcases the work and inspiration of female artists such as Josephine Wall, Allison Grey, Amanda Sage, Martina Hoffman, Carolyn Mary Kleefeld and many others.
3 Key Points:
Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown are co-authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art, which includes discussions with 18 female artists.
The book and the episode are an exploration of the role that dreaming, psychedelic experiences, and mystical visions play in visionary art.
There is a strong need for a balancing of masculine and feminine energies. Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed.
David’s background is in Psychobiology, the interface between psychology and biology
He spent 10-15 years working in neuroscience and research labs
His interest in Neuroscience came from his experience as a teenager, experimenting with psychedelics
He wrote his first book, The Science of Psychedelics, about 10 years ago
David mentions that the psychedelic renaissance has allowed him to write openly about psychedelic topics that he’s been preparing his whole life researching for
About Rebecca
aka Molly Moon Sparkles
She has a huge creative drive
She is currently studying psychology and is playing in the art program
She is fascinated by entheogens, plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
She is a painter and is working on the Molly Moon Magick Series that focuses on the divine feminine
David was so fascinated with the visions he would see on psychedelics and wished that he had the talent to portray it through artwork, and then he began to see artists bring these visions to life
He also saw a lot of gender inequality, that there were more men than women in the visionary art space
It urged him to highlight the under recognized women in visionary art
Rebecca was experimenting with other realms with plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
She says her consciousness was so drastically different from any other time in her life, and she started painting her psychedelic experiences
This led her to begin building community with other artists who shared the same ‘vision’ as her
She said that the psychedelic experience has so much feminine nature to it that wasn’t being voiced
“We are going through a serious ecological crisis right now and the teachings behind the psychedelic experience is to heal the collective and help climate change” – Rebecca
There is an uprising of feminism with the “Me Too” movement, women in congress, women’s marches
Our species has been so dominated by men and we need the nurturing and caring aspects of the feminine perspective
Surprising Aspects of the Women
The most surprising aspect is how much in common the women had
David says it was beautiful how well each artist was connected to each other through their stories
Laura Holden is completely self taught
There were two women from the book that had never touched a psychedelic substance
They were inspired through dreams and daydreams
The psychedelic experience not only inspires the artwork, but it creates a new way of viewing artwork
Kyle mentions that he always wished he could record his dreams
Joe says he has been seeing research around capturing visual or imagined imagery
Discovering the Artists
David discovered most of the artists that he had not previously known through the community Rebecca had been a part of as visionary artists
COSM and Entheon
August 3rd, Rebecca and David are giving a presentation as COSM in New York
Entheon, the Sanctuary for Visual art may be open by them
Entheon will have workshops, painting classes, rooms to stay in, full moon ceremonies, etc.
It will be an art sanctuary, a church with a spiritual and psychedelic essence
Visionary art is getting into museums and becoming a recognized art form
The Desperate Need for Balance
Terrence McKenna told David that early on in human civilization, men didn’t understand the role that sex had in creating babies
The power of reproduction was within women and sex was something else
Once men began thinking that they were responsible for the generation of life, they starting saying its “my baby” its “my wife” instead of ‘our’ baby or the community’s baby. It kept developing into “my child” into “my country”, “MY”.
Then people started using less psychedelics and started consuming more alcohol and now everything is an over exaggerated male dominance
“Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed. It could be balanced and harmonized with more feminine energy.” – David
There is a crucial imbalance from male and female in history alone
But more than an imbalance between just males and females, it’s about an imbalance of masculine and feminine energies
Each of us, male and females have both a masculine and feminine energy
We can see the masculine and feminine imbalance in the world and our planet right now. We don’t need to shift to a goddess worshiping planet, but we just need to be back in balance and bring more feminine energy of nurturing and compassion and caring and healing
Penny (an artist highlighted in the book) mentions about Sandos giving LSD to researchers who gave it to artists
Getting Involved
“If you want to get involved in painting, dancing, making jewelry, clothing, gardening, don’t wait. Do it. If you are true to yourself and your own inner visions, you will succeed” – Rebecca
One thing all artists have in common is fear and insecurity, so you can’t let it hinder you from beginning
Final Thoughts
Artists like Android Jones are doing visionary artwork in virtual reality mediums
David thinks visionary artwork will become only even more interactive and immersive spaces
We need to find a more yin-yang balance between masculine and feminine
Rebecca Ann Hill (AKA Molly Moon Sparkle), is a visual artist with a wide range of experience in different creative mediums. She is the co-author and illustrator of “Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams & Mystic Visions”, as well as “Women of Visionary Art.” Primarily a painter, she is creating a new series entitled “Molly Moon Magick,” and her other projects include dancing with “Gold Town Burlesque,” writing a blog -“Go Ask Molly”- and working on a new book about her spiritual awakening.
About David
David Jay Brown is the author of Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics, and The New Science of Psychedelics: At the Nexus of Culture, Consciousness, and Spirituality. He is also the coauthor of five other bestselling volumes of interviews with leading-edge thinkers, Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge, Conversations on the Edge of the Apocalypse, Mavericks of Medicine, Frontiers of Psychedelic Consciousness, and of Women of Visionary Art. Additionally, Brown is the author of two science fiction novels,Brainchild and Virus, and he is the coauthor of the health science book Detox with Oral Chelation. Brown holds a master’s degree in psychobiology from New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in two of British biologist Rupert Sheldrake’s books on unexplained phenomena in science: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home and The Sense of Being Stared At. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including Wired, Discover, and Scientific American, and he was the Senior Editor of the special edition, themed MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) Bulletins from 2007 to 2012. In 2011, 2012, and 2013 Brown was voted “Best Writer” in the annual Good Times and Santa Cruz Weekly’s “Best of Santa Cruz” polls, and his news stories have been picked up by The Huffington Post and CBS News.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down with Renn Butler, who graduated from the second ever class of Holotropic Breathwork in 1989. During the show, they discuss topics on Breathwork, Stan Grof practices, archetypal astrology and the astrological landscape we are entering in 2019.
3 Key Points:
Renn Butler is an Archetypal and Holotropic Astrologer since the 70’s who uses astrology in his Breathwork practice.
Stan Grof’s Internalized Protocol includes lying down with eye shades and headphones with a sober sitter. A sober sitter is more common in therapeutic settings versus the shamanistic group settings, and Renn believes there is more benefit to a sober sitter in a personal session than a group session.
We are moving into a Jupiter square Neptune for all of 2019. Neptune represents our soul’s yearning to reawaken to the universal field of consciousness and Jupiter amplifies whatever it touches, so we are entering into a time of opportunity for self exploration and awakening.
Renn became interested in Stan Grof’s work through many conversations with Richard Tarnas in 1980, and then participated in a Grof month long session with guests like Gwen Frishkoff
He spent much time in Esalon
He remembers walking through the hallways where the mandalas from breathwork sessions were hung
He has been an Archetypal/Holotropic Astrologer since the 70’s
Archetypal Astrology
Stan Grof looked at ways to determine the content of people’s experiences in assisted psychotherapy
Through his friendship with Richard Tarnas, he found that people’s planetary alignments or ‘transits’ corresponded in a remarkable way with their experience in a session
“The purpose of astrology is to predict the meaning behind events rather than trying to determine the specific concrete forms they take.” – Renn
Carl Jung coined the term archetype based on the Greek word “arche”, which means ‘the forms’
It’s the psychological meaning behind events
Richard learned astrology by looking at his sessions and the content of the sessions and their correlation with astrological transits
Based on his findings, he was able to predict the best days to do sessions
A Powerful Breathwork Session
Renn had Kundalini Experiences happening for 4 years
Transiting Pluto was conjoining his natal Neptune
Pluto compels into being whatever archetypes it aligns with
Neptune represents divine consciousness
He did a 5 hour breathwork session that caused him to re-live aspects of toxic womb (disturbances of intrauterine life)
Pluto can help clear out disturbances of the psyche
At the end of the session, he felt way more cleared out than he did before
It resolved his Kundalini episode that he was in for the last few years
Kundalini Awakenings
Some describe it as energy moving up the spine or chakra
It means to clear out leftover traumatic baggage in the psyche
People can have emotional outbursts and start crying or screaming as they discharge the energy
Afterward, they will care what happens to the ecosystem and around them and want to be a part of the solution
Spiritual Emergence and Psychosis
Joe asks when to tell the difference between knowing if someone is going through a Spiritual Emergence or needs hospitalization
Renn responds saying you need to look for if the person is taking responsibility for their healing versus projecting.
Projecting would be someone saying “You guys are trying to poison me” versus taking responsibility and saying “I’m feeling toxic feelings inside myself”
Richard’s correlation of the outer planets Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto with Grof’s 4 perinatal matrices shows the process of revolutionizing astrology
Carl Jung would do chart work before seeing all of his patients
He would try to find transits with Jupiter, Uranus, Venus, etc
There are no astrological alignments that would be too dangerous to do journey-work during
But Renn says it’s like putting up the lightning rod during certain transits during breathwork
“Lie back and let the mother give birth to you” – Renn
Renn says it’s safer if you are on your back during journey work versus walking around and facing gravity and falling or hurting yourself
Grof Internalized Protocol
One patient at a time (sitter, breather team) to lie down, wear eye shades, and listen to music through headphones
The sitter agrees not to judge or direct the process or abandon the process
You can expect miracles with this type of protocol
You can’t face this material by yourself, you really need people you trust, who are sober and not doing a substance, one person at a time
Renn says the ayahuasca revolution has brought a lot of greatness to the western world, but the shamanic traditions usually meant that the shaman drinks with the clients to have a magical insight into the users psyche
Sitter Role
In a therapeutic framework, the sitter is sober and lets the client do all of the work, and the sitter is there to assist, but not to interfere with the process
Stan describes it as a way to maximize the benefits and minimize the risks
Renn brings up an example of 3 people doing mushrooms together
One person might be feeling aggressive, and another person might feel like a baby wanting to be held
The aggressive person won’t want to be doing any cuddling
One person does the catalyst, and the other 2 support them, and then the next time they rotate
Renn thinks one deep session is more beneficial than 3 ‘half-assed’ sessions
Interruptions During Sessions
Some people have a fear that their experience may interrupt another person’s experience
Renn says that if someone is laughing or screaming or crying that he understands it is just a part of the universe of the way things just are
He is shocked to hear stories about people having a loud experience getting taken out away from the rest of the group and told to contain themselves
Kyle mentions that sounds usually aren’t a bother, and the loud music helps
But it’s talking, English words that bring people out of a session
People can have great ayahuasca ceremonies, and then they think that ayahuasca is the best psychedelic out there
Renn says that all psychedelics are great tools
But he encourages people to try breathwork and this solo session style healing
Joe says he dreams of a place where shamanism takes a look at the solo process and maybe not always the group process, that all cultures can combine our knowledge for the best result
2019
We are moving into a Jupiter square Neptune for all of 2019, 90 degrees between Jupiter and Neptune
Neptune represents our soul’s yearning to reawaken to the larger world’s soul, to the universal field of consciousness
Jupiter amplifies whatever it touches
This presents a large opportunity for self exploration, with a feeling of deeper cosmic safety
“It seems like our psyche’s wait until things are safe for the deepest material to surface.” – Renn
Renn says it’s good to focus on death so that we can constantly keep our priorities straight
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Renn
Following a B.A. in English and Religious Studies from the University of Alberta, Renn Butler lived at the Esalen Institute in California for 2½ years where he became deeply immersed in the transpersonal psychology of Stanislav Grof and the emerging archetypal astrology of Richard Tarnas. He completed training as a Holotropic Breathwork facilitator with Stan and Christina Grof in 1989 and has facilitated many workshops in Victoria, Canada. His research includes over three decades of archetypal-astrology consultations and Holotropic Breathwork workshops, and thirty-five years of Jungian-Grofian dreamwork.
In this unique episode, Joe brings Tom Hatsis and Dr. Jerry Brown together for a psychedelic debate. They go back in forth in conversation on whether there was psychedelic use in medieval or ancient Christianity and if so, was there a secret tradition of including art of mushrooms or psychedelic substances in cathedrals and castles.
3 Key Points:
Jerry Brown makes the claim that there is evidence of visionary plants in Christianity and the life of Jesus found in medieval art and biblical scripture.
Tom Hatsis makes the claim that Christianity is not hiding a giant secret inside the biblical texts about the true hallucinogen at the root of the religion being an Amanita Muscaria.
Jerry and Tom debate back and forth, pulling from art and textual evidence (and lack thereof) to support or deny the claim that Psychedelic Mushrooms are the root of Christian religion.
Anthropologist, Author and Activist
Served as the Prof of Anthropology at FIU in Miami
He designed and taught a course on hallucinogens and culture
He is the Co-Author of Sacred Plants and the Gnostic Church: Speculations on Entheogen use in Early Christian Ritual The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity
Tom Hatsis
Author, Public Speaker, Roller Derby Player and Potion Maker
He is the Author of three books in Psychedelia;
The Witches Ointment: the Secret History of Psychedelic Magic
Psychedelic Mystery Traditions; Spirit Plants, Magical Practices and Psychedelic States Microdosing Magic: A Psychedelic Spellbook
Partnered with event organizer and short film maker, Eden Woodruff, who runs Psanctum Psychedelia in Portland in the process of winning the Guinness Book of World Record in Magic
Intro
The debate is around the early Christian use of psychedelics and mushrooms in Christian art
The conversation is on the validity on whether or not psychedelics were used in early Christianity
Dr. Jerry Brown on Psychedelics in Christianity
The Miracle of Marsh Chapel – a double-blind experiment conducted by Walter Pahnky in 1962 where 20 students were divided into two groups, half received niacin and the other half received psilocybin
9 out of 10 who took psilocybin had a profound psychedelic experience
Brown explains that this is an important part in the entire history of psychedelics
After discovering the Amanita Muscaria mushroom (confirmed by Paul Stamets) in a 15th Century Church in Scotland, he realized that there were many entheogenic images in Christian art
He says that most church historians do not have training in mycology to recognize entheogens and mushrooms
He brings up an image of Adam and Eve standing next to a large Amanita Muscaria mushroom
He went to a Parish Church and saw an image of Jesus entering Jerusalem on a Donkey, and one of the youths welcoming Jesus is holding a long mushroom cap
He went to churches in England, Germany and France
In the drawing of Genesis, he saw God creating plants (psilocybin mushrooms)
“When you go back beyond the 3rd century, there are no visual images or Christian art due to poverty and persecution” – Jerry
Jerry reads a passage,
“Jesus said to his disciples, “compare me to someone and tell me who I am like” Thomas said to him, “Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like.” Jesus said “I am not your master, because you have drunk you have become intoxicated from the bubbling wellspring that I have personally measured out. He who will drink from my mouth will become like me, I shall become like he, and the things that are hidden, should be revealed to him.”
He interprets the passage as a reference to drinking a psychoactive mushroom substance
Jerry goes on to explain that Jesus realized his feeling of eternal life through the use of psychoactive entheogens
He says that this is not a means of dismissing Christianity, but instead to reintroduce Christianity with its original roots
Tom Hatsis on Psychedelics in Christianity
Tom says that Jerry makes a lot of assertions, but does not present any evidence. He talks about art, but not anything in scripture
Tom is curious why the only artwork that Jerry brings his assertions about mushrooms are from a time where we can’t ask them about it
Tom brings up Julie and Jerry’s book and that the first chapter has nothing to do with Christian History at all
Tom uses an example of stone mushrooms. Someone doing a cross cultural analysis, might agree that they are mushrooms based on the other findings of cannabis and opioids
But, as a historian, Tom looks for evidence and in this case, there are eye witness accounts of its use
He brings up the example, the infamous plaincourault fresco of Adam and Eve at the tree of good and evil with the forbidden fruit
Using this one example, he wants to prove how critical historical methodology is used to prove unsubstantiated claims on Christian art as wrong
The paradise tree is a mix of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and a symbol of Christ’s victory over Adam’s transgression. In the play, it was tradition to place small Eucharist wafers on the tree branches so that’s what the white dots are on the tree branches
The tree’s shape is not a mushroom cap, it is a parasol of victory
Jerry’s Rebuttle
Jerry says that the absence of evidence, is not equal, or proof of evidence of absence (just because it’s not written in text, doesn’t mean that its not there in the art)
Jerry’s issue with the fresco is that “The Fall” is a New Testament creation, not all the way back in Genesis
He says that on their website, they do not ‘alter’ the image, they ‘enhance’ it
He says that Tom claims the fruit doesn’t matter, but the fruit does matter (it could be a psychedelic mushroom)
He touches on the skeletal appearance of Eve and the meaning of renewal of life
Jerry thinks this image is the beginning of the religious experience and symbolism that the soul is immortal and will continue to exist after death
He says the serpent is not a depiction of evil entering Eden, but instead a source of knowledge and a spiritual guide to the feminine to help bring man into higher awareness
Tom’s Rebuttle
Tom says he didn’t hear any evidence from Jerry, he heard arguments to authority
He says that Jerry uses anthropology to uncover history, and opinions of art historians, but medieval historians agree that the mushroom is not present in Christian art
He also says he did agree with Jerry about the mushroom in art, but that was last year and he has proven himself wrong and that the mushroom caps are parasols of victory
Jerry says that Amanita Muscaria was in the Soma, but Tom says cannabis was, and mushrooms were not Chris Bennett’s book on Soma
There is zero evidence for mushroom art during medieval times
In Jerry’s book, he writes about the Basilica di Aquilea, saying that they are Amanita Muscaria, but Tom says they are not that type of mushroom
Tom also says that in the play depicted in the plaincourault, that the script literally says the wafers are hung on the tree, and that the little white dots are not the dots from an Amanita Muscaria
Jerry’s Closing Remarks
He says that this isn’t just cultural analysis, this is about fieldwork and looking at how native people view this artwork
The problem he has with Tom and Church historians is that it is not taking evidence from Ethnobotanists
Jerry says he believes that there is a long tradition of entheogenic mushrooms in Christian art and would like this debate to continue
Tom’s Closing Remarks
Tom says he still isn’t hearing evidence, he is only hearing assertions and argument to authority and eminent scholars
Tom says that Genesis doesn’t matter in the plaincourault, because we know that it’s about the play
He has multiple articles debunking these images on his website
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Jerry
Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist, author and activist. From 1972-2014, he served as Founding Professor of Anthropology at Florida International University in Miami, where he designed and taught a course on “Hallucinogens and Culture.” The course examines the use of psychoactive plants by tribal and classical cultures, including Ancient India and Greece, and by and discusses the discoveries of the modern mind-explorers, the “psychonauts of the twentieth century.”
About Tom
Thomas Hatsis is an author, lecturer, and historian of witchcraft, magic, Western religions, contemporary psychedelia, entheogens, and medieval pharmacopeia. In his spare time he visits rare archives, slings elixirs, and coaches roller derby.
In this episode, Joe interviews Duncan Autrey, a conflict transformation catalyst and educator. He runs a podcast, Fractal Friends, that covers topics of self-similarity across our diversity. During their conversation, Joe and Duncan discuss ways of resolving conflict in our relationships and society.
3 Key Points:
Duncan Autrey is a conflict transformation educator, working for peace and cultural change.
Conflict happens when one person wants to be heard so much that they stop listening to the other side. It is a product of living in a diverse world.
We have more rights than we think we do when facing law enforcement.
Conflict is a product of living in a diverse world
Conflict resolution is about how to get different perspectives working together
Conflict happens when someone is really passionate about their side of the topic
Conflict also happens when one person wants to be heard so much that they stop listening to the other side
The ARC of conversation
A stands for acknowledge
R stands for reflect back
C stands for be curious
Resolving Conflict
Its okay to be certain about your own experiences, but someone might also be certain about their experiences and the key is to find a mutual ground
“How do we understand ecological issues better and work with each other to find how to create better conversation around it?” – Joe
In a conversation of conflict, the other side may be the antidote to your extreme
Interdependent Polarity – each side has something positive and negative, and each side should acknowledge the negative but aim to pull out the positive of the other side
“It’s better to find a way to navigate the question, rather than to answer the question” – Duncan
In a hierarchy of permanence, laws are really low. Laws come and go
3 ways we resolve conflict over time; power, violence and laws
But the interest based model includes everyone and all sides and works through conflict to live in and share the same planet with each other
Impressive Resilience in Humans
“Shifts happen”
People that Duncan works with start thinking to themselves “I’m a good guy facing a bad guy” and the person on the other side of conflict also thinks “I’m a good guy facing a bad guy”
Helping guide the people in conflict to just listen to the other person fully is what starts the shift
Law Enforcement and Conflict
It’s important to recognize the difference between the system and the individuals
Our whole system of television, movies, everything is all feeding into this
There are sociopaths in the world (5% of the population), and they are falling into roles like prison guards and CEO’s
Duncan brings up a story where he was in a car with someone who got pulled over, and the car got completely searched
He had vitamins on him, and the police assumed it was MDMA, so he was arrested and spent 4 days in jail
“This is a place where the people who are on the right side of the law, are being treated like assholes, and where people on the bad side of the law, are on their best behavior” – Duncan
This is a systemic issue, where the society says that you are a good person for doing something good, and are a bad person for doing something bad
But we shouldn’t be defined by what we are ‘caught’ doing, either good or bad
People should be able to hold onto their humanity (not be locked up for life) for something like possession of a drug
“If we’re going to care about our shared humanity and our right for everyone to be here, we have to figure out the path of restoration” – Duncan
“Slavery isn’t okay, unless someone gets convicted of a crime”
Victoria’s Secret has people in prison slavery making lingerie in South Carolina
People have to pay off debt from their incarceration, before they get a license, to get a job, that they have to apply to as a criminal
Society doesn’t make it easy to be human after prison
People in grad school with the same amount of debt, have an education, (usually) a job, and have hope for the future
Rights When Getting Pulled Over
Right to remain silent is real
Right to consent for search – you don’t have to say yes
Law enforcement tries to use the fact that you think you’re guilty and will let the search happen
You can’t be detained without probable cause (4th Amendment)
You can be detained long enough for a traffic citation, but not enough to be caught for another crime
Smoke smell in the car is probable cause, even in s state where it is legal
Joe mentions dash cams so that there can be recordings on both ends, not just one end (the police’s evidence)
Duncan had the thought that maybe once they realize that his vitamins were not MDMA, that they might try to switch out the vitamins with MDMA
His attorney said they aren’t that corrupt, or smart
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Duncan
Duncan Autrey has worked in facilitation and conflict resolution for over fifteen years in diverse contexts ranging from rural Paraguay and Colombia to cities of Seattle, Washington, DC, Cuenca and Buenos Aires. He approaches conflict from a belief that it arises from the diverse cultural experiences of common human needs. Every conflict or complicated situation, large or small, is an opportunity for deepening our relationships and improving the world we live in. Duncan currently runs a podcast called Fractal Friends covering topics on exploring our self-similarity across our diversity.
In this episode, Joe interviews Steve Hupp, the Host of Kentucky Ayahuasca, a new series on Viceland. Topics include Steve’s background and how he wants to impact the American Ayahuasca scene through his work.
3 Key Points:
Kentucky Ayahuasca is a docu-series on Viceland about Shaman, Steve Hupp as he works with people seeking healing from severe emotional and physical issues.
Steve comes from an unusual background of career criminal and bank robber, and because of his time in prison with a Peruvian Shaman, has decided to bring the tradition to the United States.
Steve is careful not to mock what shamanism is by creating ceremony in the States. He wants facilitation to be done as safely as possible and is simply trying to help people through Ayahuasca ceremony.
It landed him in prison and put him into the same cell of a Peruvian shaman who had overstayed his visa and was probably doing some facilitating in the States
His name was Guadalupe and Steve called him Loopy because of the things he was talking about
But here and there Guadalupe would say something that would resonate with Steve days and weeks later that just made sense
Prison
He spent 4 years in prison
He got into the federal system because he had beaten the state system so the federal system picked up the case
Steve pleaded guilty and made a deal with them to give them their money back
He also agreed not to sue the police for opening fire on him
He was one of the first bank robbers released on a bond
Religion and Spirituality
Up to that point he was an Atheist
He decided that something else was keeping him alive for something because of what he survived during the police chase
Steve says he’s seen how religious law worked by seeing gangs turn into congregations
He says he is no longer an Atheist after having experience with Ayahuasca
He had an epiphany that “anything is possible” and he decided he wanted to bring this to everyone
He started to have coincidences that led him to facilitation
Shamanism
Steve isn’t trying to defraud what Shamanism is, but he is trying to tailor it to the American way of life
He says the Shaman in the jungle has a different context than an American does
Joe mentions that people get upset about how the word ‘shaman’ is used
Steve says ‘shaman’ comes from the Siberian word, ‘saman’, which means “to know” but has been branded by anthropologists
He also says shamanism is the oldest world religion
Joe brings up that so many people suggest doing Ayahuasca in the Amazon because that’s where the spirit of the plant is, but he also mentions that the same type of biodiversity exists in Kentucky too
Purpose
Steve says they face reverse-racism because they can’t work with native tribes because they are white, but he’s just looking to bring everyone together
“If we don’t start helping our little blue sphere heal, it’s all we’ve got” – Steve
He said he had more fear transitioning into Ayahuasca facilitation than any bank he’s robbed because he had to put his name on it
His intent is not to build a cult, he believes we are at the dawn of a new world and we are all in this together
Helping Addiction with Ayahuasca
Steve says he believes there are no addicts, just unbalanced humans
Joe says he read recently that the term “addict” keeps people in their problems
When he helps people who are addicted to drugs, and they drink Ayahuasca, they realize the drug is not the problem, but the guilt and the shame about using the drug is the problem
Plant Teacher
Steve believes we are intergalactic children
We could use our technology and knowledge to better us rather than being so distracted by the ‘lines in the sand’
He says we could feed everyone on the planet with land the size of Texas
What Ayahuasca is trying to teach us is to be kind to each other and we have that choice everyday
We need to get past this barbaric attitude of domination
“I know I’ve got grandchildren that I may never see, but I’ve got to try to leave them a world better than the one I’ve found” – Steve
If we were to teach our kids to teach our grandkids something, we wouldn’t be handing them millions of dollars in national debt
Its a non-violent change
“What if we collectively manifested accountability in our government?” – Steve
Law Enforcement
Steve believes law enforcement shouldn’t be able to have more power than soldiers at war
Soldiers in Iraq can’t fire unless they have been fired upon
Shaman University
No one has ever done this before, Steve wants to put together a structure to make sure this operation is done ethically
He wants to lay the foundation for people to participate in Ayahuasca ceremony safely
He says anybody can brew Ayahuasca, but doing it safely and properly is key
Joe encourages viewers to check out the series on Viceland
Steve also encourages listeners who want to do Ayahuasca abroad to do tons of research before attending to make sure there are proper facilitators, ethical procedures and quality emergency response techniques and resources
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Steve
Steve Hupp had spent time in the Military. He was lost in materialism, drug abuse, alcoholism and pride that led him on a 5 year bank robbing spree that ended with him in Federal Prison, where he met his first Shaman, a cellmate. Now he is an Ayahuasca Shaman performing psychedelic healing ceremonies in Kentucky. Steve has worked with Ayahuasca for 15 years, trained by a Shaman from South America on how to work with Ayahuasca. He has spent much of that time working alone and experiencing many visions and entities that called him to found Aya Quest.
In this episode, Joe sits down with Kevin Matthews, Campaign Manager of Decriminalize Denver, the group looking to decriminalize magic mushrooms. During the show, they cover topics such as the Right to Try Act, therapeutic success and what it might look like to have Psilocybin decriminalized in Denver.
3 Key Points:
Decriminalize Denver’s efforts are aimed to decriminalize Psilocybin Mushrooms in the city of Denver, CO., and are currently getting signatures to be on the May 2019 ballot.
The Federal Right to Try Act allows a person with a life-threatening illness to use any substance that has passed phase one clinical trials.
There is so much research and data on the benefits of Psilocybin Mushrooms, and being in an age of social media sharing, people are waking up to the idea of mushroom decriminalization.
Kevin is a part of the group, Decriminalize Denver
The group submitted the ballot initiative called the Denver Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization Initiative and they are getting signatures to make the May 2019 ballot
Kevin became interested in mushrooms after leaving as a Cadet at the US Military Academy due to major depression
He was interested in Psilocybin Mushrooms impact on depression
Talking Publicly about Psilocybin Use
“Self-healing from psychedelics” is something most people want to be careful talking about
Does it uninspire therapists?
Does it ruin the medical model?
Kevin states that people are afraid to talk about it because they are a schedule 1 substance
Those who are willing to take the risk to talk about it are because they believe that mushrooms might have the best impact on them
Right to Try Act
Kevin knows someone with PTSD and tumors who is prescribed to Psilocybin under the Federal Right to Try Act
Anyone who has a life-threatening illness can use any substance that has passed phase one under clinical trials
His psychiatrist said that the psilocybin has been nothing short of miraculous in its effects
He takes 1.5-2 grams of dried mushrooms every 7-10 days
It puts him in control of his own protocol
Trump just signed the Federal Right to Try Act this summer, Colorado has had their own since 2014
Generational Mushroom Use
Joe says that the media landscape has really changed in the past few years and so much more research and information is becoming accessible to everyone
Veterans for Natural Rights group is supporting this mushroom movement
After the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, a lot of people went underground with their use
30 million people in the country have used psychedelics in the last decade
More young people now are using psychedelics than the same age group used psychedelics in the 60’s
Decriminalize Denver
The goal of the group is to decriminalize the personal use and personal possession of Psilocybin mushrooms, including the propagation of mushrooms for personal use
“Our main goal with this is to keep individuals out of prison, help our vets, and help our loved ones who suffer from these traumas” – Kevin
Colorado Always Making Progress
Right now, Colorado state legislature is looking at safe injection sites and different kinds of penalty such as rehab instead of incarceration
Joe says Denver is a kind of microcosm of the whole nation, it has an interest in both sides of an issue, instead of just one sided
“Mushrooms help, in a very profound way. And opening that door is the first step to changing people’s minds, both metaphorically and physically.” – Kevin
The medical applications of Psilocybin are huge such as for a stutter, autoimmune issues, anxiety and depression
Talking about Psilocybin
Kevin says you can’t have a conversation without two opposing sides
He is excited for when the conversation starts because there is a ton of points on why Psilocybin is proven to be effective
John’s Hopkins said that Psilocybin should at a minimum be a Schedule 4 (same level as prescription sleep aids) source
Schedule 1 means “no medical value and high risk of abuse”
From the clinical research and population studies alone on Psilocybin, we know that’s false
Decriminalize Denver’s Current Focus
Getting all 5,000 signatures (2,000 so far) by January 7th
Coalition building, doing some fundraising
Getting volunteers activated
After getting all the signatures, then they will be on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the campaign and outreach starts
Using Psilocybin for Therapy
Joe brings up a story about his teacher Lenny Gibson who had multiple bouts of cancer and is a psychedelic scholar. Lenny was incredibly mad at Tim Leary because he was in cancer support groups and imagines how many more options cancer patients would have for pain if drugs were not made illegal
Looking at decreasing suffering, it would be special for the Denver population to find relief in anxiety and depression before going into a life-threatening surgery, etc.
If this turns into a regulatory medical paradigm, licensure is important
How do we create the paradigm to open the work in a professional therapeutic manner?
Grand Rounds
Doctors will get together around a case study and share it within the medical community
It’s a way to share and practice case studies organically and internally
With social media alone 30,000 people can be reached a month
Typing in to Google “benefits of mushrooms” brings up a ton of research
When people hear about John Hopkins, NYU, Harvard, UCLA Medical Center, and all of these companies that have already been doing the research they become more interested
It takes the breaking up of a family after prison time of a drug offense, 7 generations to recover
Joe knows of a case where someone in Colorado who got busted for having mushrooms only ended up serving 2 weeks and didn’t get a felony for it
In 2005 New Mexico Court of Appeal said that cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms does not qualify as the manufacture of a controlled substance, as long as they aren’t dried
Mushrooms are Beneficial, Not Harmful
How do we ruin fewer lives by legalizing mushrooms and keeping people out from behind bars?
Mushrooms can put you in touch with yourself and help connect yourself to others
Feedback
Most of the responses are, “Hell yeah I’m going to sign this!” or “This saved my life”
Kevin says when someone says no, it’s all about educating them
They had 45% support it and 20% maybes
Working with the City
The bill would include a Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, a city level committee made up of health professionals, Police, Denver Sheriff’s office, city attorneys, etc
Final Thoughts
Kevin wants as many people as possible willing to participate to volunteer
They will be starting public Q&A twice a month (and live streaming them)
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Kevin
Kevin Matthews is leading the decriminalization of Psilocybin mushrooms in Denver, Colorado. He and his group of dedicated volunteers are currently collecting signatures to make the May 2019 Ballot.
In this episode, Joe interviews Philip Wolf founder of Cultivating Spirits, a cannabis pairing company. The talk includes topics on Terpenes, Social Consumption and the Cannabis experience industry.
3 Key Points:
Terpenes are the component in cannabis that produce the aroma and ‘mood’ you will be in after smoking.
As more and more places legalize cannabis, the market opportunity for combining food and cannabis grows.
Cultivating Spirits is a cannabis experience and tour company that offers small-batch cannabis, fine wines, and locally sourced gourmet meals. They are a leader in cannabis-infused experiences.
Philip has been in the legal industry of cannabis in Colorado for 9 years
Cultivating Spirits started in Breckenridge, Colorado in 2014 after legalization
He went to a wine experience event and had an epiphany of bringing the cannabis experience to the ‘soccer mom’
He walked away from equity in multiple companies because he believed in it
Cultivating Spirits is the first company to offer a cannabis pairings experience
After learning about terpenes he learned about pairing foods with attributes of cannabis
Terpenes
There are 3 components in cannabis that give you certain feelings
THC gets you high, gives a euphoric feeling
Flavonoids
Terpenes produce the aroma of cannabis and it determines the ‘mood’ you will be in after smoking
Terpenes are produced in all plants and produce, they attract pollinators and help fight disease within the plant
THC-A is non-activated THC, meaning it needs a flame or heat to activate it
Michael Pollan’s book – Botany of Desire
At the base genetic level, our goal is to reproduce and expand
“Are we the workers for this plant?” – Philip Wolf
People’s Reactions
They are loving it!
The average age for a person who attends Cultivating Spirits is 45
Cultivating Spirits focuses on parties and events
Old folks are some of the best clientele, they don’t have jobs and they are done with all of the hassles of making a family and working hard for their job, etc.
Microserving
Microserving is one hit
Holding cannabis in longer doesn’t get you higher, it’s about the surface area of your lungs
So if you expand your lungs very lightly, you will get less high than if you would if you fully expand your lungs when taking a hit
Expansion
Cultivating Spirits operates all over Colorado
They are working to expand to Las Vegas
They also opened up Cannabition
They are taking this business to other places with good heart
Cannabis Nightclubs and Social Consumption Lounges
Cannabis isn’t the reason for the decline in alcohol sales, but the desire for new experiences
Philip believes it will happen first through coffee shops
Everyone needs food, so it’s a great market to integrate into
“I use cannabis like I use a cup of coffee, I use it, but I don’t use it all day” – Philip Wolf
Cannabis… Psychedelic?
There is a psychoactive part to cannabis
Philip says he uses cannabis to deepen his meditation and yoga practice
He is a Certified Yoga Teacher
Although he is certified to teach, he did it for himself and to learn tools he can use during his whole life
Cannabis is a mirror – it’s what’s inside already but getting amplified
First Dinner Approved by Municipality
The opening of X-games in Aspen, CO in 2015
5 courses, 5 wines, 5 strains of cannabis
A DJ from Thievery Corporation deriving beats from where the food dishes come from
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Philip Wolf
Philip Wolf is one of the world’s first pot sommeliers, an expert and pioneer in the field. In 2014, he opened Cultivating Spirits with a mission to show mainstream America how cannabis should be treated. Setting tables with forks, wine, and pipes, Wolf’s pairings are grounded in the science of interpening, which the institute calls “a method used to identify and understand cannabis variety [by] interpreting … terpenes and flower structure.” Wolf can sniff a bud, identify the strain and terpenes, and interpret both the flavor profile and high. The protocol for his dinner with bud pairings is puff, eat, drink.
Today in the show, Joe talks to Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente, founding members of Kosmicare, a drug testing, and harm reduction service at the Portugal Festival, Boom. Joe talks to Maria and Helena on their personal backgrounds, how they got into Boom, research on recreational use, what harm reduction looks like, and what populations are underserved. Drug use is decriminalized in Portugal, and the focus of risk minimization has been useful in getting the population served versus putting people in prison.
3 Key Points:
Kosmicare is a harm reduction and psychedelic emergency service starting at Boom music festival in Portugal. Working to support other events in Europe.
Boom is in Portugal, where drugs are decriminalized and drug testing is legal. Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has had.
The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, and HIV infection. Other countries like the US should consider a drug reform with the current opioid crisis.
Kosmicare is a non-profit organization that looks to transform nightlife culture through humanistic, comprehensive and evidence-based policies and interventions
They work toward a world where drugs can be used with liberty and wisdom
Making festivals safe in Europe
About Maria
Psychologist, graduated in 1999 at University of Porto
She started working in the field of problematic drug use
Growing up in a difficult neighborhood was her purpose for getting into studying psychology and drug use
She began focusing on recreational use
Her younger brother was into the Electronic Dance scene and positioning himself with using substances
She was interested in studying other motivations to use drugs than just using drugs to feed a problem
She heard an announcement by MAPS in 2008 recruiting volunteers to do work in psychedelic emergency at Boom
It was the perfect match considering her interest in psychology and drug use in recreational environments
About Helena
Helena is a Psychologist who was interested in drug use
She wanted to have field experience, and she volunteered in a needle exchange program
She began working for a harm reduction project to work in recreational settings that needed volunteers
She became interested in the potential that drug checking has in the harm reduction strategy
They are working toward a ‘drop-in’ where people can show up to a permanent space for drug checking and harm reduction
The Numbers
Over 20,000 people showed up to Kosmicare’s information session
This year for the first time, Kosmicare had an HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography) to identify LSD and pills
They tested over 700 drug samples in 6 days
Maria says half of the Boom population gets in contact with Kosmicare
They serve 1% of the Boom population for psychedelic emergency (about 350 cases out of 35,000 attendees)
The episodes usually have to do with psycho-spiritual situations versus just an emergency about the drug taken
Psychedelic Emergencies
Boom is a transformational festival that hosts attendees from over 50 countries
Boom is different from Burning Man in that Boom is in Portugal which has a much more legal framework which helps with the services that can be offered
Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has
Joe states that there are numbers of regulatory police at Burning Man
Kosmicare is included in the entire setup of Boom, which helps reduce the number of scenarios that would cause an emergency at the festival, such as providing shaded areas all over
It gets up to 43 degrees Celcius (108 Fahrenheit)
But there is a water element so people can refresh themselves
In the largest dance areas at the festival, they included medical emergency Teepees so attendees could be helped as quickly as possible
Recreational Drug Use
They did a survey on recreational drug use and most of the respondents said they use drugs in a beneficial way that doesn’t interrupt their lives in a bad way
Similarly with Boom attendees, most of them want to use harm reduction techniques so they have positive experiences and don’t develop problems with their drug use
Mat Southwell “drug users are calculated risk takers”
“The legal framework has a terrible influence on people’s relationship with drugs” – Helena
Lessons Learned
Maria says they have had many groundbreaking challenges
In 2016 they had someone die on them while having a psychedelic emergency
It made her really question why she was doing this
Her first impression was that she was doing this work to save the inexperienced user
She was caught off guard by the person who died because they were an experienced user and didn’t taking unadulterated substances
“People may go over the top for a wide variety of reasons, it was the biggest lesson I learned working for the Psychedelic Emergency services” – Maria
It’s hard to determine people’s ability to calculate risks
If the person had collapsed in front of an urban hospital in the city, the Hospital couldn’t have done anything more than what they did at Kosmicare
Collaborations
Kosmicare has a collaborative relationship with Zendo
MAPS was hired by Boom to direct the harm reduction services
They use a lot of Stan Grof techniques for transpersonal psychology
They are partnered with many other organizations in Europe that are trying to deliver the same type of psychedelic emergency and harm reduction services
The Risks of Drug Policy
Joe points out that there are so many festivals happening without these services
The Rave Act prevents companies from attending festivals because it “harbors” drug use
In Portugal, the fact that drug use is decriminalized, it opened up a legal framework around harm reduction
Portugal is one of the few countries where drug checking is allowed by law
The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, HIV infection, tuberculosis and other things
Helena says that the US should rethink their drug policy considering the opioid epidemic
In Portugal, there were only 12 overdose cases with heroin and opioids
Portugal before the Drug Policy
In the 80’s, there was a heroin epidemic, which had an epidemic of high infection rates and HIV. This motivated the policy change
It was evident that prohibition was not working
Usually when it affects only poor people, no one cares, but the fentanyl crisis is affecting all sorts of populations
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About Maria
Maria Carmo Carvalho, Kosmicare Manager, Boom Festival, Portugal, is a Lecturer at the Faculty of Education and Psychology at the Catholic University of Portugal. She researches if the field of psychoactive substance use and has completed a MSc and a PhD at the University of Porto on the field of psychoactive substance use, youth and recreational environments. She is Vice-President of ICEERS and Kosmicare Boom Festival manager since 2012.
About Helena
Helena Valente began working with people that use drugs in 2004, focusing in nightlife settings. Helena has a vast experience in coordinating national and European projects in the drug field. At the moment she is a researcher and PhD. Candidate at the Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences of the Porto University and founding member of Kosmicare Association.
James Oroc is the Author of Tryptamine Palace and the New Psychedelic Revolution.
Show topics include Burning Man, visionary art, drug war, and politics around the 5-MEO-DMT experience.
3 Key Points:
James Oroc is cautious about the medicalization of psychedelics. He believes psychedelics do not necessarily heal sick people, but instead bring a new perspective to healthy users.
The 5-MEO-DMT experience is not like the typical psychedelic experience, not everyone should do it, and there are some serious negative side effects that could last for years if not integrated properly.
The Bufo Alvarius desert toad is at risk. With climate change and the demand for using them for their 5-MEO-DMT, there is a lot of pressure on their survival as a species.
James has written a few psychedelic books, and is kind of a psychedelic icon
His interests are in noveling and extreme sports journalism
He wrote a book for Burning man, and gave away 500 copies at the festival
He is a world-class paragliding competitor
He believes always being in nature is important
In the late 80’s the psychedelic culture had crashed, except for the mountain towns, which is where the psychedelic community ended up
Joe lives in the Rockies, and was hanging out in Aspen and ran into an old hippie deadhead who talked about skiing on mescaline, when everyone would typically ski on acid
In James new book he goes into psychedelics and extreme sports, about using a dose smaller than the psychedelic dose but larger than a microdose
Joe references a movie, Valley Uprising, where most of the climbers would hang out on the side of a mountain face, party all night, drop a bunch of acid and then sprint to the top
James’ Interest in Psychedelics
James says that 5-MEO-DMT converted him from to being a scientific, rationalist, atheist to agnostic, being merged and one with the god source, through the classic mystical experience
He says it took him multiple years to figure out how a 40-minute trip experience shifted his entire perspective for the rest of his life
That’s why he wrote his Burning Man book, as a way to help others relate to the experience and make their own sense of it
Joe says James Book is far more fascinating than Michael Pollan’s Book, especially for people that have been in the psychedelic space for a while
Michael Pollan states in his book that LSD was given to Tim Leary by Alfred Hubbard, but James says that’s not true, he says that a man by the name of Michael Hollingsworth gave LSD to Leary, after coming to America with a jar of mayonnaise full of LSD
James says its amusing for Pollan to form stories to fit his own narrative
He says Pollan has talked about using psychedelics only four times, and that he doesn’t like the psychedelic culture and by using them we will become more depressed
James thinks depression is a result of the paradigm that we are in
“I don’t like the idea of psychedelics being used as bandaids to help people except for the current paradigm, I like the idea of psychedelics being dynamite, to help bring the next paradigm shift” – James
Smart people are depressed because they are realizing we are screwing this planet up, and we may not have that much time left on it
He called it ‘extinction denial’ in his last book, and after writing his last book in 2009, its gotten exponentially worse
Joe asks James why he thinks people are denying the extinction narrative
James replies saying people feel like they can’t do anything about it, they worry about paycheck to paycheck, and get caught up in all the small distractions of life. He says no wonder people are depressed
Psychedelics aren’t a Medicine
James thinks the only reason they didn’t take hold as medicines in the 60’s is because they were difficult to use, and didn’t fit in the medical model
“The problem with medicalization is it puts psychedelics in one box, I’m more interested in giving psychedelics to healthy people than sick people”
They don’t fall under the true classification of medicines
James thinks they should be called therapy, instead of medicine
He understands the interest of why people want to use them as medicines, but that shouldn’t be the only way they are used
Joe adds that the medicalization doesn’t mean rescheduling – via drug policy alliance
James says that last year alone had the most arrests for cannabis than any other year, even as more states are ‘legalizing’
Joe mentions a comment from Brian Normand who runs Psymposia, “Is cannabis really legal, if you can only have 6 plants? It’s just heightened regulation.”
James thinks that keeping cannabis illegal in the south is the main tool for racial profiling, it’s the gateway drug to prison
Brooklyn wants to release 20,000 cannabis offenders
America
James thinks living in America is like living in the belly of the beast
There are so many forces at work in the US, James thinks the best thing for the world would be for it to break up in a few smaller countries, although it’s probably not going to happen
“It’s not where you want to be, its where they’ll have ya” – James
The data that John Hopkins comes up with is what we need to fight the cognitive liberty we should have to take psychedelics
Joe says Stan Grof became uninterested in the research of psychedelics and became more interested in visionary art
Creativity is what could help us survive
“Art could be the next religion” – Alex Grey
Reemergence of Spirit
James thinks we are in an interesting time in history, all of the models and structures are collapsing, we are getting to an individualized view of everything.
We have the right to create our own spirituality and religion. If we all go find what we find and then come together in clusters of like findings, that is a way for our spirituality to grow
Daniel Pinchbeck mentions cloistering up in small subculture communities focused on individual sub-aspects of what interest you
The reemergence of spirit is important and can happen with the democratization of psychedelics
Psychedelics play a role in inner reality and outer reality
“Psychedelic perspective is the worldview that we take on as a psychedelic user, and its the perspective that the planet needs to survive. Whether as a society that we can shift to that perspective quick enough, is the issue. But the tools are in hand.” – James
Burning Man
James tells a story of this wealthy CEO who attends Burning Man, and gets back and realizes he’s a rich asshole and starts contemplating how he can make his company better for the world and be better to his employees
Burning Man has a lot of potentials like psychedelics do, but it was easier back then Burning Man has blown up and isn’t what it used to be
These highly impactful experiences are more influential when they are small
Boom, a festival in Portugal is a free environment because everything is legal, there is no paranoia
Burning Man used to be free, but because things are still illegal, it has more of a defensive posture now
There are so many resources, police, undercovers, put into Burning Man for how little of crime that happens
John Gillmore – had the largest civil suit against the US govt. for phone tapping
If you have an intense psychedelic experience, take some time and integrate it
“The first place you go after a major psychedelic experience is the library”
James says 5-MEO-DMT was the greatest intellectual adventure of his life
He couldn’t grasp the concept of quantum physics, after 5-MEO-DMT it was one of the only things that made sense
Alexander Shulgin – plus four
James had a paradigm shift after the first time smoking 5-MEO-DMT
He says 5-MEO-DMT is extremely powerful, he doesn’t do it as much anymore, because he appreciates how powerful it is
He also believes that it’s wrong for ‘shamans’ to take the drug while facilitating
LSD is considered not powerful because its been dialed down
People don’t take the same dose that people used to in the 70’s
Every community should have its own psychonaut
James thinks people should not start with 5-MEO-DMT, but start with something less intense like mushrooms and a walk in the woods
Joe did a lot of holotropic breathwork before taking psychedelics
So many people go right to ayahuasca because they are out of the psychedelic culture and are being advertised to
James is annoyed with people calling drugs medicine out of context, like at a festival
He thinks toad is a sacrament, or therapy, not medicine. It hasn’t healed anybody
He believes that the ‘toad shaman’ culture will be eliminated once chemists start to synthesize 5-MEO-DMT
The toads are coming from an overly populated desert, and with climate change, there is a lot of pressure on these species survival
Final Thoughts
James suggestions
The 5-MEO-DMT experience is unique, it’s not like the typical psychedelic experience, not everyone should do it, and there are some serious negative side effects that could last for years if not integrated properly
Start with classic psychedelics like LSD or mushrooms, and go for a walk outside
Stan Grof’s house/library burnt down, Terence McKenna lost two libraries, and Jonathan Ott’s library burnt down. Decades of research burnt down
Check out this our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
Journalist, photographer, and artist James Oroc was born in the small South Pacific nation of Aotearoa. Since 1998 he has been pursuing and reporting on the cutting edge of extreme sports in more than 40 countries around the globe, his work appearing in magazines, films, and on MTV Sports. He has been a member of the Burning Man community since 1999, and he is also involved in the documentation and advancement of “Alternative Culture.”
Tom Hatsis is an intellectual, occultist, psychedelic user and advocate from Portland, Oregon. In the show, Joe and Tom talk about his new book about microdosing. Joe prepares listeners about the controversial topic, magick, which is highly discussed in the show. Witch craft, western shamanism, old religion and magick are all mentioned during the conversation. Tom is a coordinator for Sanctum Psychedelica, a psychedelic club in Portland.
3 Key Points:
Tom’s book Microdosing Magic is a book of templates for people to fill in the blank according to what works for them
Magic isn’t the ‘hocus pocus’ witchy stuff that people always assume, it’s actually mind hacking, reframing and neurogenesis, that every individual is born with the ability to tap into
Magic is a great way to create containers to frame our psychedelic experiences
Tom’s Book – Microdosing Magic: A Psychedelic Spellbook
Tom thinks having a childlike wonder and being curious helped him write his book
He has written 4 books, 3 have been in psychedelic topics
Tom’s background – a part of the Roller derby background since 2005
His first book was called The Roller Derby: A Sensation that caused a Book, the Confessions of a Roller Derby Mascot.
Then he got into psychedelic history and wrote The Witch’s Ointment, Psychedelic Mystery Traditions and his newest book, Microdosing Magic.
Portland is a great place for the psychedelic renaissance
Microdosing Magic
Tom said we should be using psychedelics in a magical way
Joe agrees saying when using psychedelics we should be flexible philosophically
Joe mentions the Robert Anton Wilson reality tunnels
We all have a B.S. (Belief System) and then reality tunnels are the marxist sunglasses and the capitalist sunglasses and feminist sunglasses, instead of having 40 glasses to see behind bias, we all have our own pair of shades
Microdosing is a tool that helps people become childlike, more genius
Magic
Microdosing Magic is a book of templates for people to fill in the blank to what works with them
Tom never tells people what to do with psychedelics, he is offering insight and techniques
Using his own techniques, him and his partner are about to win a guinness world record
“If microdosing is like a healthy diet and magic is like exercise, that’s great. But what happens when you put healthy diet with exercise? You have something far more powerful than those two things could have been by themselves. That’s how microdosing magic works.”
Magic = mind hacking, re-framing and neurogenesis
The Four Gifts
Tom talks about ‘The Four Gifts’ in his book
They make up the beginning of his personal magical system that he has cultivated over his lifetime
Carl Sagan quote, “The cosmos are within us, we are a way for the universe to know itself”
Tom agrees strongly with that saying, he thinks we are microdoses of that cosmic magic and from it, we’ve received 3 immaterial gifts, Intellect, Emotion and Will, however, due to our evolution in physical bodies, we’ve inherited a fourth gift, action
The magical system is about aligning your intellect, emotion and will, so that when we take action, we are acting in pure magic
Magic is super powerful, not something that happens at Disney World. It’s a very real thing that every individual is born with the ability to tap into
Orenda – the magic that you are born with
Microdosing Magic is Tom’s small contribution to bettering the world
Joe says there are so many people that practice subtle magic and don’t even know it; in catholic religion, in yoga practice
Tom has a friend who ‘doesn’t believe in magic’, who is a hardcore material reductionist, who has a ‘lucky hat’
Tom – “This isn’t for people with claws and fangs, magic is for anybody who recognizes their own power and wants to harness their power to make their lives and the world around them a better place”
Neurogenesis, better firing, and re-framing happens in a person’s brain after consuming Psilocybin, Lions Mane and Reishi
Tom says he was addicted to coffee, and after using Microdosing Magic, he hasn’t needed a cup of coffee on 8 months because of his new neural pathways
Joe jokes about overdosing on coffee for a few months on his coffee addiction
Tom jokes back that he’d just drink it out of the pot
Creative Genius
Dr. George Land study – 98% of 5 year old scored in the creative genius category in the same test that 32 year-olds only scored 2%
The modern education system robs us of our creative genius that we all had when we were kids, but at no fault to the teachers. The education system, buys these education models that just don’t work
Tom – “You have to use the internet wisely and not foolishly, to educate yourself and not de-educate yourself”
The Book Tour
Joe asks about the most interesting questions Tom has received on tour
Most people ask about dose sizes and safety questions
Tom explains that he gets nervous about certain questions because he isn’t a medical professional or a therapist
Tom “If you wouldn’t take a psychedelic dose, don’t start microdosing”
Microdosing
Tom has been microdosing on and off for over 20 years
“We didn’t call it microdosing, we called it being broke, we could only afford 1/8th of acid, so we split it up. We felt way more energy, I started writing way more songs, I couldn’t put my guitar down. It sparks that creativity”
Joe says it’s never been a better time for the psychedelic and microdosing renaissance
Cannabis is now legal in 13 states
FDA just approved mushrooms for PTSD in Canada
MDMA is in phase 3 testing
Tom says people in Silicon Valley, and believes people in Congress and DC are microdosing, they just can’t talk about it
He mentions a talk he just did in Salem, a very conservative place, and no one had any questions. And then after the talk, everybody came up to him privately and asked him their questions
Tim Leary made a joke on Liberals not wanting to ‘risk face’
Joe comments on Tom’s book saying it was playful, inspiring, and not threatening like some magic can be
Tom says we don’t have villages for support anymore, we have community which has replaced that
Sanctum Psychedelia’s main focus is community building
Tom uses an example of people going to Peru, taking ayahuasca, and because they don’t have that mystical framework, they come back to their regular lives and say “now what”? That’s why integration and community are so important
Tom says he’d love to see ayahuasca and ibogaine clinics with all the great results people have received from their heroine or cigarette addictions
Tom’s favorite presentation ever was Mark Haden’s blueprint on the future of psychedelics psychotherapy Mark Haden’s Presentation on Psycehdelics Mark Haden Psychedelic Reneissance
Cannabis and the War on Drugs
Tom likes to buy his cannabis directly from his farmer, he prefers to not have the government interfere
He says Gene Simmons from KISS has been so anti cannabis and now all of a sudden is promoting cannabis
Joe brings in the drug war issue, or the issue of people being put in jail for nonviolent crimes (cannabis)
Tom brings in another issue, saying that if a person is charged for drugs at one point in time that later becomes legal, they aren’t allowed freedom because of the fact that they did the crime during the time where it was illegal
Racism and the war on drugs really bothers Tom
Amanita and the True History of Christian Psychedelic History
Tom – “Psychedelics are an excellent way to change your mind and yourself”
Magic is a great way to create containers to frame difficult psychedelic experiences. It’s about putting new frames on your reality
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Tom
.
Thomas Hatsis is an author, lecturer, and historian of witchcraft, magic, Western religions, contemporary psychedelia, entheogens, and medieval pharmacopeia. In his spare time he visits rare archives, slings elixirs, and coaches roller derby.
The consumption of 5-MeO-DMT by inhaling bufotoxins from the Colorado River toad (lat. Incilius Alvarius), also known as “Bufo Alvarius”, “El Sapo/Sapito”, “Bufo”, and “Toad”, has become increasingly popular in a variety of underground ceremonial settings in recent years. Furthermore, due to the realization of the potential 5-MeO-DMT holds for therapy it has also become a new interest in psychedelic research.
When I started psychedelic research for my dissertation at Maastricht University in fall 2017, there was no research addressing the subjective effects from inhalation of bufotoxins in humans. Thus, I brought it upon myself to investigate this further as the consumption of the so-called “toad-medicine” was booming worldwide.
The primary aim of the study was to investigate whether the bufotoxins from the toad, which is known to contain significant amounts of 5-MeO-DMT, as well as other compounds, produces long-lasting changes on affect and thinking style. The second objective was to assess whether the acute and long-term effects of the bufotoxins depend on the degree of ego dissolution and altered states of consciousness that was experienced during the ceremony. The preliminary evidence of this study was presented at the Beyond Psychedelics conference in Prague in June, and the recording of this presentation is now circling around on the web.
Even though the study results are very interesting and important to highlight due to the consumption of the “toad-medicine” worldwide, I think it is of equal importance, if not more, to shed light on another side of the story. A side of the story that for once does not focus on humans.
This article aims to share information, increase awareness, and stimulate reflection about how the consumption of bufotoxins affect the toad.
5-methoxydimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) is a potent, fast-acting, natural psychoactive indolealkymine substance, which acts as a serotonin (5-HT-1-A/5-HT-2A) receptor agonist (Shen, Jiang et al. 2010, Szabo, Kovacs et al. 2014). 5-MeO-DMT was initially isolated from the bark of Dictyoloma incanescens (Pachter 1959), and has also been found in the milky-white secretion that protects the Incilius Alvarius toad against predators (Weil and Davis 1994).
This toad, also known as Bufo Alvarius, has become well-known worldwide as a “5-MeO-DMT-making-machine”. Its secretion, when inhaled through vaporization, has proven to be powerfully psychoactive within 15 seconds, causing an experience of unity reported by participants in underground ceremonies in the most repeated soundbite “we are all one” (Weil and Davis 1994).
The presence of 5-MeO-DMT in the secretion is not the only substance that makes the toad so interesting. In fact, it is also the only species whose skin contains 5-methoxyindolealkylamines as well as 5-hydroxyindole-O-methyl transferase activity (Erspamer, Vitali et al. 1967). This enzyme, among other reactions, converts bufotenine (5-OH-DMT) to the potent hallucinogen 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) (Weil and Davis 1994).
That being said, bufotoxins are the name of a collection of compounds which can be found on the toad’s skin, and in the two glands behind the eyes called the parotid glands (Tyler 1976). Several types of toxic and non-toxic substances can be found in the bufotoxins and they include the following; cardioactive agents such as for example bufagins (bufandienolides), catecholamines such as epinephrine and norepinephrine, indolealkylamines such as bufothionine, serotonin, cinobufotenine, bufotenine and dehydrobufotenine, and finally noncardiac sterols, which are non-toxic, such as cholesterol, provitamin D, gamma sitosteral and ergosterol (Chen and Kovaříková 1967). Moreover, as illustrated in the work for Erspamer and colleagues (1967) using paper chromatography, the bufotoxins include not only 5-MeO-DMT but also many other compounds. As previously mentioned, these compounds protect the toad from predators, and can, for this reason, have fatal consequences as demonstrated by reports of animals that have died after biting toads.
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Although these bufotoxins are a natural defense mechanism of the toad, humans have found a way of using them for a different purpose. At the present time, a number of people are smoking bufotoxins at underground ceremonies. Moreover, many also make use of 5-MeO-DMT from plant extract (i.e. yopo) or from a synthetic origin. A recent survey by Johns Hopkins demonstrates that use of 5-MeO-DMT, from either toad, plant extract or synthetic origin, is used infrequently and primarily for spiritual exploration (Davis, Barsuglia et al. 2018). Anecdotal, and empirical evidence demonstrates that people also use 5-MeO-DMT for treating psychiatric conditions such as depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder and substance abuse (Psychedelic Times, 2016). The resulting subjective effects appear to be due to the compounds ability to induce mystical experiences which have been demonstrated to have lasting beneficial effects (Garcia-Romeu, R Griffiths et al. 2014).
To be able to inhale the bufotoxins one would have to “milk the toad.” It is worth noting that the toads hibernate for most of the year, and generally appear just before summer showers, and congregate when the rains begin for reproduction (Fouquette Jr 1970). This is the time when they can be found and milked. The pamphlet titled “Bufo Alvarius, the Psychedelic Toad of the Sonoran Desert” outlines detailed instructions for collecting and drying the venom;
“You hold it [wearing gloves] over a flat glass plate or any other smooth, nonporous surface at least 12-inches square, the toad is held in front of the plate, which is fixed in a vertical position. In this manner, “the venom can be collected on the glass plate, free of dirt and liquid released when the toad is handled” (Most 1984).
Moreover, from the article Weil and Davis from 1994:
“One Bufo Alvarius yield 0.25-0.5 gram of dried venom. Since concentrations of 5-MeO-DMT may be as high as 15% one toad may yield 75 mg of an hallucogenic drug that, when smoked, is effective in humans at doses of 3-5 mg. In other words, a single toad produces 15 or more doses of one of the most potent psychoactive drugs found I nature. A matchbox sized container would represent thousands of effective doses.”
With this in mind, it is no wonder that the harvest and consumption of the toad’s bufotoxins have increased.
The harvesting of the toad’s bufotoxins happens not only from the hands of facilitators of ceremonies, or consumers but also from toad-hunters such as the ones filmed in “Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia: The Psychedelic Toad” who after harvesting the bufotoxins sell it (VICELAND 2017). In the video clip, the toad-hunters report that they have collected around 500 grams of bufotoxins over the years. This equals 5,000 doses if one dose is 100 milligrams of bufotoxin, and means that in order for one person to have the experience at least two toads must be milked.
Now how does the harvesting and consumption of bufotoxins impact the toad?
At this point in time (October 2018) the toads are classified as “least concern” on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (Hammerson & Santos-Barrera, 2004). Although this may be true, these assessments are from 2004, and is therefore very likely to be outdated. A new assessment about the toad’s population size is highly warranted given the attention the toad has received and the consumption of the toads’ bufotoxins worldwide.
Nevertheless, it is not old news that the amphibian population worldwide is declining. Actually, their global decline was first recognized in the early 1990s (Wake 1991). As of 2010, 32% of the world’s nearly 6600 amphibian species are threatened with extinction, 43% are experiencing declines and for another 22%, there are insufficient data (Stuart, Chanson et al. 2004). This phenomenon represents the Earth’s sixth mass extinction (Wake and Vredenburg 2008). That being said, there is no single cause to the global amphibian decline, rather there may be several contributing factors (Hayes, Falso et al. 2010). As outlined in the paper by Hayes and colleagues, there are three levels of possible factors for the amphibian decline.
The first level involves 1) death (or removal) of individuals and 2) reduced recruitment within a population. (Editors note: recruitment occurs when juvenile organisms survive to be added to a population, by birth or immigration, usually a stage whereby the organisms are settled and able to be detected by an observer. Source – Wikipedia
The second level involves 1) increased disease rate, 2) decrease in nutrition, 3) predation, 4) human exploitation 5) “other mortality”, which represent everything from the death of older individuals, incidental death, to catastrophic events.
Finally, the third level involves 1) atmospheric change, 2) environmental pollutants, 3) habitat loss, 4) invasive species, and finally 5) pathogens. These levels are also suggested to interact with one another.
It is not rocket science that the above-mentioned factors also have an impact on the toad. The increasing demand for the bufotoxins for inhalation has made the toad susceptible to not only ecological disturbance through the invasion of habitat and excessive milking, but also amphibian-trafficking and black-market dynamics. Additionally, according to herpetologist Robert Anthony Villa, the largest toads are most likely to be spotted and collected over smaller toads, and if you remove the biggest toads, you remove the population’s ability to sustain itself as the bigger toads have a lot of eggs (Psychedelic Today 2018). Moreover, based on studies on snakes, we know that 80% of snakes die if you catch them, move them to a different territory and let them go. Similarly, toads have an inner-GPS that they rely on, and if a toad is taken out of their territory for milking, and then set free elsewhere, they are very likely to die because they are either simply lost, could get run over by a car, or eaten by predators. The latter is more likely to successfully happen when the toad has been deprived of their main defense mechanism.
Along with that, Villa reports that the toad is very likely to be impacted negatively by pathogens, such as for example chytridiomycosis, which is exposed to them by people when they are collected for milking and can spread to the rest of the toad population. Additionally, as the surviving toads depend on the genetic variety of other populations to sustain themselves, the toads would inbreed themselves to extinction if there are no other populations to copulate with. Finally, keeping a toad as a pet, or many in large conservations for breeding, is a huge disservice to the toad as they do not do well in captivity, and due to the factors previously stated.
Given the circumstances, it seems to me that the harvesting and consumption of bufotoxins or so-called “toad medicine” is very much the case of the “double effect” principle; with a good act, comes a bad consequence. The aforementioned are all alarming factors that could very well lead toward population decline and so to extinction. This is all startling information that calls for action.
A discontinuation of “toad medicine” in favor of synthetic 5-MeO-DMT use can diminish the current unnecessary and excessive harassment of the Incilius Alvarius species. Switching from using toad bufotoxin to synthetic 5-MeO-DMT is better for many other reasons. First, synthetic 5-MeO-DMT does not contain a cocktail of other compounds and is therefore much safer to use. Likewise, it will be much easier for researchers to re-schedule and legalize a pure substance for medical use than a complex bufotoxin. Second, synthetic 5-MeO-DMT is not any different from “toad-medicine”. In fact, the argument that “toad-medicine” is better than synthetic is a claim that is drawn from personal experience and is not a good enough argument to extend to a generality.
I personally think it is important that we start to reflect upon the implications our actions have on the toads and take action. It is not necessary to wait until the toads are classified as endangered before we act.
My hope and wish for the future is that all of us, be it, consumers, researchers, organizers, or facilitators, will think twice about whether experiencing 5-MeO-DMT at the expense of a species’ continued presence on this planet is worth it. Especially when there is an alternative way which is much safer to use, not any different from the effects of the bufotoxins, and does not contribute to ecocide.
The book “Homo Deus; A Brief History of Tomorrow” highlights several important and interesting topics. One of them is the power human beings have, and how this power can affect the future of the planet. One thing that Harari points out, which seems to be very fitting for this moment, is that humans have the capability to do many things, but that question is not “what we can do?”, but rather; “what should we do?” (Harari 2015).
References
Chen, K. and A. Kovaříková (1967). “Pharmacology and toxicology of toad venom.” Journal of pharmaceutical sciences56(12): 1535-1541.
Davis, A. K., J. P. Barsuglia, R. Lancelotta, R. M. Grant and E. Renn (2018). “The epidemiology of 5-methoxy-N, N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) use: Benefits, consequences, patterns of use, subjective effects, and reasons for consumption.” Journal of Psychopharmacology: 0269881118769063.
Erspamer, V., T. Vitali, M. Roseghini and J. M. Cei (1967). “5-Methoxy-and 5-hydroxyindoles in the skin of Bufo alvarius.” Biochemical pharmacology16(7): 1149-1164.
Fouquette Jr, M. (1970). “Bufo alvarius.” Catalogue of American Amphibians and Reptiles (CAAR).
Garcia-Romeu, A., R. R Griffiths and M. W Johnson (2014). “Psilocybin-occasioned mystical experiences in the treatment of tobacco addiction.” Current drug abuse reviews7(3): 157-164.
Harari (2015). Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow.
Hayes, T., P. Falso, S. Gallipeau and M. Stice (2010). “The cause of global amphibian declines: a developmental endocrinologist’s perspective.” Journal of Experimental Biology213(6): 921-933.
Most, A. (1984). Bufo alvarius: The psychedelic toad of the Sonoran desert, Venom Press.
Pachter, I. J. Z., D.E.Ribeiro, O. (1959). “Indole alkaloids of acer saccharinum (the Silver Maple), Dictyoloma incanescens, Piptadenia colubrina, and Mimosa hostilis.” J Org Chem24: 1285-1287.
Shen, H. W., X. L. Jiang, J. C. Winter and A. M. Yu (2010). “Psychedelic 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine: metabolism, pharmacokinetics, drug interactions, and pharmacological actions.” Curr Drug Metab11(8): 659-666.
Stuart, S. N., J. S. Chanson, N. A. Cox, B. E. Young, A. S. Rodrigues, D. L. Fischman and R. W. Waller (2004). “Status and trends of amphibian declines and extinctions worldwide.” Science306(5702): 1783-1786.
Szabo, A., A. Kovacs, E. Frecska and E. Rajnavolgyi (2014). “Psychedelic N, N-dimethyltryptamine and 5-methoxy-N, N-dimethyltryptamine modulate innate and adaptive inflammatory responses through the sigma-1 receptor of human monocyte-derived dendritic cells.” PloS one9(8): e106533.
Wake, D. B. (1991). “Declining amphibian populations.” Science253(5022): 860-861.
Wake, D. B. and V. T. Vredenburg (2008). “Are we in the midst of the sixth mass extinction? A view from the world of amphibians.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Weil, A. T. and W. Davis (1994). “Bufo alvarius: a potent hallucinogen of animal origin.” Journal of ethnopharmacology41(1-2): 1-8.
About the Author
Malin Vedøy Uthaug is a Ph.D. student at the University of Maastricht, Department of Neuropsychology & Psychopharmacology. She has a background in health and social psychology and is currently researching psychedelic (ayahuasca, 5-MeO-DMT, DMT, and mescaline) and yoga-induced improvements of mental health. On the side of being a student and researcher, she is a life coach and public speaker. She started her coaching project titled Love & Gratitude in September 2016 which serves as a platform to spread information related to positive psychology, and transpersonal psychology. Love & Gratitude has also become a way to bring about information about psychedelics and help to destigmatize them. She has since September 2016 delivered talks, webinars and workshops in Belgium, The Netherlands, Czech Republic, Norway, United States of America, and Colombia.
You can find more from Malin on Psychedelics Today here.
Download Joe Moore interviews Brian Pace. He studies Evolutionary Ecology, is a science consultant at The Third Wave, and is the director of the project, Mind Manifest Midwest, and instigator of the “Find the Others” project.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelics are not just illegal, they are also taboo, and Brian’s efforts are aimed to create spaces that make it more comfortable to talk about psychedelics.
Online resources are great, but having local, and real psychedelic societies to create community will help people “come out” and be comfortable talking about their experiences.
Brian’s interest evolved from ecology to psychedelics when he realized the issue of global warming. The top environmental problems are selfishness and greed, and changing people’s minds with psychedelics is a big hope for the planet.
Met Paul Austin of The Third Wave at the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance Conference.
The conference was foundational in him becoming outspoken about psychedelics.
Ibogaine – last resort option for people suffering from addiction.
Brian and the team built The Third Wave with the goal to bring the conversation about psychedelics to be more comfortable among the general public.
It has been good about building bridges to invite all types of people to the community, not just white males. It’s important to be inclusive in this space.
Find the Others
Started at Psychedelic Science, to talk about what psychedelic societies are.
Aware Project by Ashley Booth (www.awareproject.org)
Psychedelics are not just illegal, they are also Taboo – Michael Pollan
“Were having a cultural hangover from the upheavals we’ve had in the late 60’s and early 70’s.” – Brian
“We can fight taboos when we can have conversations – about that which was taboo – in the grocery store, in the bar, with our parents. I think that’s definitely what’s needed with psychedelics.” – Brian
Had the first psychedelic society meeting at a bar that included a presentation about plant secondary compounds and human health and ended with storytelling.
20% of Americans over the age of 15 have had some experience with psychedelics, 11% with LSD. (source unsure)
Mitch Gomez from Dance Safe – more than 50% of the population of the U.S has done illegal compounds at age 15 and up. Psychedelics have taken a big chunk of that number.
Cannabis is a great help for football players and traumatic brain injury.
“If psychedelics are ever going to be reintegrated meaningfully in society, we are going to need some kind of mentorship.” – Brian
Timothy Leary – “You’re born with the right to fly”. If you start driving on LSD, you might lose that right.
Find the Others, Mind Manifest Midwest, The Third Wave
A collaborative project that allows people to speak in their own words what they are doing in their psychedelic societies.
Psychedelic Societies are real, local and create community.
MDMA for PTSD will be passed at the Federal level very quickly.
Evolutionary Ecology
Psilocybin – PhD focused on plant secondary compounds.
The mycorrhizae network – “the Earth’s natural internet” – Paul Stamets
Climate change
Consumption – eating meat and driving cars
The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy. Changing people’s mindsets with psychedelics could be an only hope.
“Given that psychedelics have reliably induced mystical and/or religious experiences in people throughout time and across a variety of contexts, it seems natural that we should start organizing communities that help unpack and contextualize these experiences.” – Brian
The status of our society
Why do we have to work 55 hours a week to barely afford a 2 bedroom apartment?
Guaranteed minimum income – an experiment in other countries.
What does our society look like when it is less stressed?
Timothy Leary
“Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others…”
Helped create the importance of set and setting.
Saw the inside of 36 prisons for possession of marijuana.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Brian
Brian Pace, M.S. is a scientist by training and psychonaut by inclination. His interest in biology was piqued acutely as a teenager while experimenting with his own neurochemistry. For more than a decade, Brian has worked on agrobiodiversity, food sovereignty, urban cycling, and climate change in the US and Mexico. Brian is the co-founder of Mind Manifest Midwest (facebook.com/mindmanifestmidwest), a Columbus, Ohio based psychedelic society and the instigator of the Find the Others Project (findtheothersproject.org), a global collaboration of the burgeoning psychedelic society movement. Since 2016, he has contributed as a strategist for The Third Wave (thethirdwave.co). At The Ohio State University, he co-created a graduate-level class entitled: Cannabis: Past, present, and future cultivation for fiber, food, and medicine. He spent a year slogging around oil and wastewater pits left by Chevron-Texaco testing mycoremediation techniques in the Ecuadorian Amazon. All pipelines leak. Plant medicine is indigenous technology. Brian completes his Ph.D. in Plant Evolutionary Ecology this semester at OSU.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe dig into and create conversation over an email received about the cost of psychedelics, the facets of capitalism and about feeling isolated after a psychedelic experience.
3 Key Points:
Capitalism in psychedelics is a complex topic and includes factors such as the schooling system, the medical system, monopoly, trade, and other facets that go into the cost of psychedelics.
There are other forms of therapy that don’t have to involve psychedelics or lots of money.
Feeling isolated after an experience is sometimes our own blockage, by refusing to create community because a person hasn’t had the same experience as us. Psychedelics aren’t always needed for a psychedelic experience.
Email concern: Some psychedelic experiences seem segregated by a price bracket. Ketamine Therapy – believed it would help with their depression, but ended up spending a thousand dollars every two weeks.
Joe – curious that ketamine lozenges may be a cheaper option that could help. Kyle – although the drug itself may be cheap, you’re not just paying for the lozenges, you’re paying for a therapist or a psychiatrist. Kyle – in America, healing is a privilege. We work hard to pay for health insurance, or even if we are insured through work or family, it gets hard to pay for because of the premiums.
“I would rather pay for taking care of myself, than going out and partying with friends.”
Healing may have to be a choice sadly, you may have to ask yourself “do I want this or do I need this?” Joe – One treatment of ketamine is beneficial for a short-term intervention in an urgent state
One session of ketamine therapy helps the user understand the situation clearer and can reduce the thoughts of suicide Kyle – “some of my greatest healing experiences were done through my own work, with myself or with friends”
“How do you feel about the resurgence of spirituality and psychedelics and it’s capitalism?” Joe – Going from the states to Peru to do ayahuasca to reach spiritualism isn’t the only means of spirituality. There are so many other options than capitalist outlets to find spiritual development. Kyle – “I want to offer a lot of help, and do free workshops, but need money to survive.” Joe – Jokingly “You’re three months behind on your rent Terrence!”
A person doesn’t need hundreds of trips to be complete and happy, Aldous Huxley says you need three to four strong trips throughout your life.
“How do we protect the planet, and how do we maintain freedom?”
To talk about Capitalism and psychedelics, we are assuming that something needs to mediate the trade or exchange for therapy. Let’s continue to educate ourselves so that we don’t blame capitalism on the fact that therapy has a cost. It’s a hard conversation to have, it’s a complex topic. Joe – pro-socialized medicine
$30,000 for a first responder to take an overdose death away
$20-$30 for a Narcan
Let’s prevent and heal more. Capitalism does incentivize doctors and healers. Kyle – “how can we use these as tools and not toys?”
Medicalization of psychedelics may have a potential tie to capitalism
The difference between doing it legally for an extremely high price, versus paying the market price for a gram of mushrooms (illegally) and doing the work (therapy) on your own. Joe – Monopoly=capitalism Kyle – the Education system
Student loan debt can be a half a million dollars to be a doctor or therapist
That debt plays an effect on how much those doctors or therapists charge
“How do you deal with isolationism that certain psychedelic experiences bring forward?” Kyle – “this has been a huge issue in my life, this resonates with me. After having my near-death experience, I didn’t know to talk to people, how to function in the world. A near-death experience is one of the most psychedelic things. To slowly slip away and ‘die’, and come back to this place and not feel like this is where I belong, how do I exist here? It can lead to isolation. It can be extremely heavy.”
“We’re all experiencing this reality through our own lens, so we have to meet people where they are.”
The reason these experiences can make us feel lonely is that of the lack of community. Kyle believes in not just constantly going into these experiences, but more about the integration of the experiences. Joe – Tim Leary says “Find the others”. But there are a lot of psychedelic people out there who don’t take psychedelics that can be a part of your ‘community’. Kyle – it makes sense to feel like you need to connect with someone who has done psychedelics in order for them to understand, but we can connect with other people who may not have had psychedelic experiences.
The psychedelic experience isn’t the only way. We can also experience spiritualism and healing without psychedelics, too. Kyle – Experience in Jamaica, the Rastas talking about home and family, “if the oil splashes up and burns me, my family isn’t here to help me, but you’re here to help me, and you can help me.”
The people around me are family, they don’t always need to have had experienced the same things as me in order to help me Joe – group strengthens self
Robert Anton Wilson’s habit – he would order magazine subscriptions and most subscriptions aligned with his interests, and the other half were of subscriptions way outside of his interests, so he wouldn’t develop a bias.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
In this episode, Joe Moore interviews Marisa Novy, a wonderful psychedelic artist living and working in Breckenridge, Colorado who has been helping Psychedelics Today with some awesome art and more.
3 Key Points:
Harm reduction was top notch at Shambhala but the festival could have done a bit more.
Early psychedelic experiences added substantial depth to her yoga practice and art.
Marisa has helped us at Psychedelics Today a ton and we are very excited to keep working with her.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Marisa Novy
I am Marisa, a 24 year old explorer of consciousness and purpose of life.
I graduated UW-Milwaukee with a BBA in Marketing and International Business with an emphasis in Entrepreneurship. I grew up making art, and for the most part, I am constantly creating. I have my own small creative business for my artwork at MARtianCuriosities on Etsy, and @martiancuriosities on Instagram for more consulting projects. I became interested in Psychedelics after reading some cosmic literature, delving deeper into my yogic practice, and through my search for meaning and enlightenment. Psychedelics have helped my creativity to blossom and to be my truest self.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Duli Wilkins, aka the “Beantown Ghetto Shaman” about his work and future plans. In this conversation, Kyle talks to Duli about his work with sacred plant medicines, how he got involved in this type of work, and also explore the topic of people of color and diversity in the psychedelic world.
Show Notes
About Duli Wilkins
He’s from the Boston area born and raised.
He gives credit to his parents for getting him into what he’s into right now.
His dad used to play jazz music and met a bunch of famous musicians.
He learned that sound and frequency can be used as a tool for healing.
He lived between two warring projects.
A lot of his friends got into the gang life.
He got heavily into Tai Chi and Chi Kung.
He became a multi-dimensional healer
He had a friend who gave him a mushroom and that’s when the magic begins.
How did everything begin for Duli?
His empathic abilities heightened more when he used cannabis.
He started getting deeper into the teachings of Rastafarians.
In the black community, you didn’t see a lot of people using psychedelics.
Using a mushroom was very new to him.
Duli’s experience with mushrooms?
At first he just felt some tingling and checked on his friend looking at the painting.
He started to see things happen before they were happening.
He was seeing the fabric of reality.
He started having out of body experience and heard drumming from the heavens.
“What was it like for you to be involved in this work when the people around you aren’t?”
Things are changing, more people across the globe are becoming aware of the benefits of teaching plants.
A lot of people report seeing ancestors that have passed away.
There’s a resistance to psychedelics in the black community because of the history of drugs.
It was easy for the government to shut down everyone but their own children.
We have to be patient and time will bring things to the surface.
Discussion about the pharmaceutical system.
It’s great when you have a broken bone, etc.
The pharmaceutical establishment is a business and it runs like a business.
When we deal with ancestral memory or epigenetics the medical industry can’t touch it.
Safety in a teaching plant ceremony is key.
Discussion about the dark night of the soul.
Work in the shadow is important if you want to become whole.
We’re all walking around with trauma.
He’s had a lot of past life experiences, even one where his son died very young.
It takes a lot of courage to try psychedelics and you have to have a good setting.
“Do you see a lot of spiritual bypassing?”
Yes, people try to hide behind things.
Some people hide behind the psychedelics.
Psychedelics and teaching plants are tools, how are you using the tools?
When we deal with wealthy people, maybe it’s the lack of struggle to obtain psychedelics.
There’s much more to us and as time goes by we’re going to have disclosure.
Duli talks about some experiences with extraterrestrials during psychedelic trips.
We’re going through cycles and making the same mistakes every time.
Last words?
Find him on Facebook under @abdukwilkins
Find him on YouTube under The Beantown Ghetto Shaman
Sign up for our free online course
Episode Quotes
Something inside me said, I should take the mushroom and that was the gateway to shamanism.
Things are changing, more people across the globe are becoming aware of the benefits of teaching plants.
We have to have a re-education and awareness around teaching plants.
About Duli Wilkins, a.k.a Duli Tha Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O Shaman
Abdul K. Wilkins a.k.a Duli Tha Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O (Gifted. Hearts. Equal. Towards. Total. Oneness) Shaman is a Boston Native…He grew up in the Inner City of Roxbury where he overcame an environment of gang street violence, neighborhood drug abuse, and police brutality! Duli was influenced at a young age by both of his parents in the interest of spirituality, mysticism, natural healing etc.
While attending College at Northeastern University he had a very mystical experience with psilocybin mushrooms and has been using mushrooms and other psychedelics as a tool for healing and conscious awareness ever since! He is a father of 2 and does massage therapy and natural healings in his community!
Kyle and Joe interview Robert Forte who has been around the psychedelic world for decades as a writer, facilitator and researcher. He has known or has worked with most of the biggest names in psychedelic history including Dr. Stanislav Grof and Timothy Leary among others.
The interview covers a lot of ground and will likely ruffle some feathers.
Robert has extensively studied the history of psychedelics and has drawn some conclusions about the origins of the field.
Psychedelics as Weapons
From the early days, scientists have been working with psychedelics to weaponize them. From project artichoke to MK Ultra, the US government and many foreign governments have spent a tremendous amount of effort researching these powerful compounds and likely still are.
Robert states that various governments particularly the United States government have groups that are using drugs to derange the public to make it easier for these groups to meet their desired outcomes – less democracy, increased plutocratic power, etc. Think Brave New World and Brave New World Revisitied.
Deranged from Miriam Webster:
1: mentally unsound : crazy 2: disturbed or disordered in function, structure, or condition
My leg was propped up on a library chair at the time, as it was too deranged to bend. 3: wildly odd or eccentric
He makes a compelling argument, but we want you the listener and reader to “Think for Yourself and Question Authority”. That was a Leary line that we think is valuablein situations like this. Read books on the subject, question the purpose behind them, think critically and see where you want to go with it.
James Fadiman calls Robert Forte, “a major but not well known hero of the psychedelic movement.” A scholar, editor, publisher, professor, researcher of the subject for over 3 decades, Forte has come to some disturbing realizations about the psychedelic renaissance that he helped to start. Huston Smith called his first book, Entheogens and the Future of Religion, “the best single inquiry into the religious significance of chemically occasioned mystical experience that has yet appeared.” Forte was introduced to psychedelics in 1980 by Frank Barron, who initiated Timothy Leary and started the Harvard Psilocybin Project with him. From the University of California Forte was invited to Esalen to study with Stanislav Grof, before going to the University of Chicago to study the history and psychology of religion under Mircea Eliade. Over the years Forte has worked closely with many of the most prominent leaders of the psychedelic movement, including R. G. Wasson, Albert Hofmann, Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner, Alexander Shulgin, Claudio Naranjo, and many others. His early MDMA research in 1981-85 turned on 100s of people to this new medicine. Though this project led to the creation of MAPS, Forte is a vocal critic of MAPS government collusion and deceptive policies. His second book is a rounded view of Timothy Leary, Outside Looking In: Appreciations, Castigations, Reminiscences. He first experienced ayahuasca in 1988, and conducted ayahuasca research with cancer patients in Peru, yet he is now suspicious of the globalizing of ayahuasca as an form of “spiritual colonialism.” He is a enthusiastic supporter of conscious, independent psychedelic healing and recreation, and an equally fierce opponent of psychedelics for mind control, profiteering, and social engineering by political and economic elites.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle Buller interviews Dr. Richard Grossman, an ayahuasca ceremony facilitator and expert with a background in healing and acupuncture.
Episode Quotes
I find mystical poetry to be an amazing aid in ceremony work.
Is it the vision or the emotion that you feel and then the vision comes?
In my work, the psychedelic experience is about going beyond the visionary state.
The core of all creation is in the heart and breath.
Show Notes
About Dr. Richard Grossman
Has a long background in healing.
He used to be a macrobiotic chef.
Primeval meditations and licensed acupuncturist.
Works with ayahuasca and San Pedro.
How did Richard get involved in ayahuasca?
A friend brought some up from Peru and his life changed in one night.
It took him years as an acupuncturist learning more about healing.
He’s been doing this for about thirty years.
Do you integrate your acupuncture practice into ceremony?
Not so much with ayahuasca – that’s done traditionally.
He had a lot of experience with the Shipibo Tradition.
With the San Pedro method, the body change happens in one day.
Opinions on psychedelic visions.
Many people want them and they’re a distraction.
The real thing is that the source of everything is within.
If a person can experience that for an instant, their life changes.
There are a lot of things happening on subtle levels.
The psychonaut and healing processes are quite different.
What are some examples of ideas you’ve seen in the psychedelic community?
People trying to draw in gods and goddesses.
You need to see how deep a human being can go, it’s an infinite journey.
What is it like to go deeper and deeper?
If you can imagine a series of curtains parting over and over and over again.
You begin to see places of illusion.
During one of his trips, he visualized himself in a Nazi concentration camp.
A voice told him to trust and forgive.
He began to question what forgiveness and trust mean.
Some people are seeking spirituality and not really healing within.
Ayahuasca tourism is a fairly good thing, rather than people coming and ruining the jungle.
How would you define a healing process?
It’s a complex subject, he likes the idea of a series of concentric circles.
Do you work with a person’s energy?
People get very relaxed.
If there is someone who can’t get relax he calms them with acupuncture.
Do you think intoxicants affects the chi?
San Pedro or ayahuasca are not considered intoxicants.
He sees that ayahuasca is only good for the body.
Psilocybin has a rough effect on the liver.
The tannins in ayahuasca are valuable and bind toxins in the body.
Do you have to worry about any cardiovascular problems?
It is a stimulant so he screens people before doing the ceremony.
Beauty is a healing process, beauty heals.
Is there anything you’re excited about in the psychedelic world?
When the community comes together to heal it’s powerful.
We’re all going to a place of more love, peace, joy, and healing.
What’s the outcome of thousands of people experiencing love and joy?
What’s the ayahuasca ceremony structure?
Constant music, keeping things from going totally wonky.
There’s a point in the ceremony that it could go in either direction:
Total group insanity or total group healing.
Iowaska ceremonies can be dangerous.
It’s something to be respected with its own spirit.
You must hold close to the traditions of generations.
There’s always a point during the ceremony where he feels it’s the most important and beautiful place he’s ever been.
Drama’s not necessary, our culture wants the drama.
We need to outgrow externalizing the blame.
Life in our heart is meant to be enjoyed.
Suffering to heal just doesn’t work.
Culture seems to dwell on suffering, is that conditioning?
The worst thing a human can possibly do is feeling guilty.
“Guilt can’t fly and God wants you to fly.”
The nature of reality is joy and love.
You need to be willing to let go of the things that don’t work.
Sign up for our free course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Richard Grossman, L.AC., O.M.D., Ph.D.
Richard Grossman studied Oriental Medicine at the California Acupuncture College in Los Angeles and received his post-graduate acupuncture training in Beijing, in a course sponsored by the World Health Organization and attended by physicians from around the world. He earned a Masters in Acupuncture, a Doctor of Oriental Medicine degree, a Ph.D. in Oriental Medicine, a Diplomat in Acupuncture, a Diplomat of Pain Management, and a Diplomat in Acupuncture Orthopedics.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your hosts Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Dr. Monnica Williams from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Will Siu a psychiatrist in private practice based in Manhattan, and a therapist on MAPS’s MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD clinical trials at the University of Connecticut. They join us to discuss race-based trauma, people of color in psychedelics, and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.
Show Notes
About Dr. Will Siu
He’s a psychiatrist and therapist on the MDMA for PTSD clinical trials with the supervision of Dr. Monnica Williams.
Based in NYC and has a private practice.
Does some work in emergency psychiatry at a local hospital.
About Dr. Monnica Williams
Associate professor at the University of Connecticut.
Does graduate teaching and multicultural psychology and research in the health center.
Currently doing a study on MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD.
What is race-based trauma?
There had been some studies previously.
When people become traumatized by experiences of racism, oppression, marginalization based on their perceived identity.
Often because of ongoing experiences, like microaggressions
Eventually, people have so many of these experiences that they start to have symptoms of PTSD.
People get so distressed and afraid that they act in a way that might harm them.
You have to think about trauma in a non-single event way.
Exploring the topic epigenetics.
Trauma has been passed down from generation to generation.
Layer epigenetics on top of what’s currently going on and trauma is understandable.
How has recruiting been going for the MDMA study?
It’s challenging, they’re not drawing from the same population the other sites are.
They’re creating a culturally safe, welcoming environment for people of color.
There is fear and misinformation that requires them to do a lot of education on the front end.
Research abuses haven’t stopped, they’re still continuing today.
Psychedelic drugs are almost exclusively used by white people.
Are there any big problems you’re trying to tackle now in prepping the study?
Traditionally there has been no compensation for study participants, but it’s needed for this study.
Another layer is paying via direct deposit vs. cash and getting the university on board.
How do you send someone back into the trauma you’re trying to heal.
How do you support people in the study?
Support them as much as possible during the study.
Continue to follow-up with people after the treatment is over.
There is a lack of people of color in the therapy field, especially MAPS.
Often people of color don’t have a good experience with white therapists.
Why do you think there aren’t very many people of color in psychedelics?
People of color haven’t had the same advantages to become therapists.
It’s not safe to talk about substances when your license is on the line.
Culturally, psychedelics haven’t played as big of a role with people of color.
What does an ideal training model look like for you?
Watching the videos of people getting well was a big game changer.
The training needs a fuller understanding of what people from other ethnic and cultural groups need.
Monica is altering the training to be more relatable.
Talk about enrollment.
They have people at all different stages right now.
They have about 18 people total who have gone through the stages.
They still have to follow the guidelines of an indexed trauma to be accepted.
How big is your team right now?
Three therapist pair teams.
A few other people who assist in various ways.
Several people are doing double-duty.
How can the psychedelic community be more inclusive of people of color?
Make some close friends who are not white.
Do you have any fantasy projects you’d like to see play out?
Start a master’s program with a specialty track in minority mental health and psychedelic therapy.
All scholarships for people of color.
Any advice you’d give to a young person or professional?
There’s a lot of work to be done and we need enthusiastic minds.
Change won’t happen overnight or be easy, but it’s worth it.
Be involved in the community
Episode Quotes
The psychedelic community is a very, very white community – most people of color haven’t had an experience with psychedelics.
Ultimately, psychedelics and psychotherapy will be an accepted, licensed form of treatment.
About Monnica Williams
Monnica Williams, Ph.D. is a board-certified, licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in cognitive-behavioral therapies. She is an Associate Professor in the Department of Psychological Sciences at the University of Connecticut, and Director of the Laboratory for Culture and Mental Health Disparities. She is also the Clinical Director of the Behavioral Wellness Clinic, LLC in Mansfield, Connecticut, and she has founded clinics in Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania.
Will Siu, MD, DPhil
I grew up in southern California, where I completed college at UC Irvine and medical school at UCLA. Midway through medical school, I pursued research interests at the National Institutes of Health in Washington, DC and ultimately completed a doctoral degree at the University of Oxford. After finishing medical school I moved to Boston to complete my psychiatry residency at the Massachusetts General and McLean Hospitals, after which I continued to work for two years while faculty at Harvard Medical School. I moved to New York City in 2017 where in addition to having a private practice, I am a therapist on clinical trials using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to treat PTSD.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Matt Pallamary, and have a discussion with him about his writing, research, and ayahuasca experiences. He also shares his concerns about self-proclaimed gurus and some issues that have been emerging because of the popularity of ayahuasca.
3 Key Points:
Science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a mentor of Matt Pallamary.
There are pros and cons to ayahuasca shamanism in Peru.
The more in touch with the natural world you are the more balanced you are.
Show Notes
Matt Pallamary was part of the early psychedelics podcast scene.
Matt grew up in Dorchester near Boston, and he began early experiences with sniffing glue, weed, and getting acid from a chemist from M.I.T..
He has almost 20 years experience with ayahuasca.
Too many people have a couple of ayahuasca experiences and claim to be a guru.
Famed science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a mentor of Matt Pallamary.
Everything is energy—the whole universe exists between our eyes.
Matt labels shamans as the first storytellers, the first musicians, the first performers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and first performers.
Being in touch with the natural world makes a person more balanced.
The boundaries between your conscious and subconscious are blurred, overlapping your visions, dreams, and waking life.
When going through an ayahuasca experience, you have to be in a safe place where you can be vulnerable and around people you can trust.
For ayahuasca experiences, be sure to get references from people that have successfully worked with a group.
Author, Editor, and Shamanic Explorer Matthew J. Pallamary is an award winning writer, musician, and sound healer who has been studying shamanism all of his life. He incorporates shamanic practices into his daily life as well as into his writing and teaching. He has over a dozen books in printthat cover several genres, many of which have been translated into foreign languages.
Matt has spent extended time in the jungles, mountains, and deserts of North, Central, and South America pursuing his studies of shamanism and ancient cultures. Through his research into both the written word and the ancient beliefs of shamanism, he has uncovered the heart of what a story really is and integrated it into core dramatic concepts that also have their basis in shamanism.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe discuss professionalism in the psychedelic field. It has been brought to our attention that there are a number of people out there doing unprofessional things. As this field continues to develop and grow, it is important to be aware of what professionalism could look like, what self care, ethics, and boundaries look like in this world that we are all actively developing.
This episode is about raising the topic of professionalism in a new growing field rather than providing answers. We all need to be self-reflective in our development and question whether or not harm is being done by certain practices.
Have any thoughts, comments, or feedback? Leave them below or send us an email!
In light of festival season, we are offering a $30 off coupon for our online store with every purchase of our course, Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care and Integration throughout the month of June. If you are a student, please email us with your university email address to receive a special discount!
Joe and Kyle will also be offering some special live online course options. If you want to stay up-to-date about these offerings, sign up for our email list.
If you’re interested in learning more about DMTx, you can enroll in the DMTx 4-week Psychonaut Training. Proceeds go towards the DMTx project.
As psychedelic research re-emerges from its dark ages, the world is beginning to learn about their healing potential for various psychological disorders such as post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, and near-death anxiety due to terminal illness. The research is fascinating, exciting, and seems to be catching a lot more mainstream attention. The preliminary research shows that psychedelics may be promising tools for mental health and could be the future of medicine. So the question is, how does one get involved in this work?
Joe and Kyle had the opportunity to talk with Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D.about how people can get involved in psychedelic research or in the field of psychedelics in general. Ingmar shared with us some really great information and we would like to recap some highlights. Some of the information provided is a mix between our own thoughts and what Ingmar mentioned.
Important Disclaimer: This is a fairly new field, so it is important to remember that the future of this work is not set-in-stone. Psychedelics are still illegal within the United States and many other countries around the world. While we remain optimistic for the future of psychedelic research, the landscape can shift at any moment. There is still a lot of work to be done!
First Thing First:
Ask yourself, “Why am I interested in entering into the field of psychedelic research?”
Do you want to get your foot in the door because you had an experience that changed your life or inspired you in some way? Did you have a healing experience that you want to share with others?
Do you want to give back to the community in some way by furthering scientific research or inquiry? If so, what is your expertise and area of interest?
What role can you play later on? Are there areas or specialties that need attention or growth?
Understanding and asking yourself, “Why do I want to do this? What is my motive?”
Personal or transformational experiences may not always be the best option for pursuing an active career in researching psychedelics. Psychedelic experiences can be healing, transformative, and magical, but this does not mean you have to enter into the field of science or research. There may be other options that might suit your interests better. Obtaining a professional degree can be a well-worth investment with your time and money if that is surely a path that you wish to pursue. It is important to think outside of the box.
Also, an important thing to note here is that psychedelics are still illegal. While the research and science is happening, obtaining a research position is often difficult considering the limited amount of research. This is not to discourage any of you, but just saying it will require a lot of work! While MAPS is projecting that MDMA will be legal for psychotherapy by 2021, it is still uncertain what the laws and regulations will be. We are hopeful that the future looks bright for psychedelic careers, but it is also important to err on the side of caution as well.
General Information:
Along with asking the questions above, here is some general information or advice for individuals who not wish to pursue a traditional degree. We are all hardwired differently and earning a professional degree may not be in everyone’s best interest.
Do Your Research: It is important to be well-read with the research and science behind psychedelics. If you do not have access to a journal database, check out Google Scholar or check out Academia.edu MAPS and Erowid have some great free sources from research papers to free ebooks.
Go to Conferences and Events: As in any field, it is important to try and make it to a conference or an event. The reality of our world today is that most people get opportunities because they network and seek out the opportunities. Conferences are great ways to network, promote your research or interests, and find the “others.” This is a relatively small and intimate field, and many people are approachable. Chances are you will be exposed to the most up-to-date research, learn about multidisciplinary approaches, and probably meet a lot of great people. You do not have to be a researcher or student to attend, there is definitely a place for everyone at conferences. Here are a few popular events/conferences:
The Non-Traditional Approach: There are other ways to get involved that do not require the investment your time and money for a professional degree. Are you a visual artist? Do you produce music? An interviewer? Are you a product inventor? For example, Joe mentioned during the podcast that he did not feel the need to go on to pursue a mental health degree because he does not feel like being a therapist is the thing that he wants to do right now. Instead, Joe and I are creating this podcast as a resource for the community. The bottom line, is there anything that you can contribute or create for the field? Many researchers and scientists are not artists or graphic designers and the field needs art to help convey the visual experience. Look at Alex and Allison Grey or Android Jones for example.
Develop an Expertise: Whether you are taking a traditional or non-traditional approach, I think it is safe to say that developing an expertise is a smart approach. Develop an expertise that can translate well to psychedelic research. Ask yourself, “how can I help or what can I contribute?”
Apply Your Skills: Again, think about how you can develop an expertise and think about how your skills can be applied to the field. Are you an accountant or into finances? Maybe if Rick Doblin’s dream of psychedelic treatment centers become real in the future, we are going to need lots of people to manage everything.
Volunteer: It does not hurt to reach out and develop a relationship with the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), Erowid, Zendo Project, DanceSafe, Drug Policy Alliance, or any other psychedelic organization. These organizations might be looking for a helping hand in a project or event. Volunteering can help you become connected with an organization, develop a relationship, and maybe help you land a job somewhere! Worst case scenario, you meet some awesome people.
Festival Harm Reduction Services: There are various organizations that provide harm reduction services at festivals. This may be a great way to get experience in the field. Check out the Zendo Project, DanceSafe, or Kosmicare for potential future opportunities.
Create a Psychedelic Club or Society: Local psychedelic clubs and societies are popping up all over the place. You can create your own too! You can check out our guide Tips on Creating Your Own Psychedelic Group
Psychedelic Community: Check out this new site, Psychedelic.Community to connect with others.
Stay Up-To-Date: Get the latest psychedelic news, articles, and podcasts by visiting these websites:
There are numerous ways to get involved in research projects. From self-report studies to actual participation, there are ways to get involved and possibly become a study participant. Here is a list of a few different options.
Clinicaltrials.gov: This is a database of clinical studies from around the country and around the world. You can use this database to search active clinical studies on psychedelics and to search for recruitment opportunities. Just perform a simple search for “psychedelic” or anything else that you may be looking for in the search box. You can filter your search option and only search studies that are currently open for “recruitment.”
Medicinal Mindfulness and DMTx:: Are you interested in participating in an extended-state DMT research project? Medicinal Mindfulness is currently in the process of putting a study together. Learn more at DMTx.org or sign up for the DMTx Psychonaut Training
If you are thinking about trying to get your foot in the door with psychedelic research, it is important to analyze which route you wish to take. There are many paths to choose from and you do not need always need to pursue a degree in science.
Are you currently or thinking about pursuing your Bachelor’s degree?
What are your interests? Are you interested in psychology or psychiatry? Neuroscience or neuropsychology? Chemistry? Biology? History or anthropology? Do you want to do therapy at some point? Figure out what interests you.
It is recommended if you want to do therapy or conduct scientific research to earn a degree in science and psychology.
Find a niche or a specialty: If you’re off to an early start, figure out what you may want to focus on. If you’re a psychology student, maybe focus on trauma or addiction. Current psychedelic research is mostly focused on if these substances can be beneficial for certain psychiatric or mental disorders. The research funds are not really there for “how” these substances work, but that might not be the case down the line in a few years. The field is shifting rapidly.
Go to conferences: Just in case you missed this in the last section, remember to try and attend a conference or event!
Find A School: It is suggested that if you would like to do rigorous academic/scientific research it might be important to seek out applying to a traditional school. There are schools out there doing research and it might not hurt to look into their programs. MAPS has made a list of schools that might make psychedelic research easier.
Create a Club: You can always try to create a drug advocacy/policy club at your university. If you are unsure how to go about doing so, you could always check out the Students for Sensible Drug Policy and create a local chapter at your university or school.
Training and Education: There are plenty of training opportunities that may be helpful when thinking about adding new skills to your toolbox. Here are some examples of trainings that could be beneficial or helpful.
If you just had just completed your undergraduate degree, are currently a graduate student, or trying to figure out what is next, here is some advice.
Master’s Degree or Ph.D.: Many people get caught up on this decision/topic. Some people believe that pursuing a clinical psychology PhD or PsyD is the best option if they want to get their foot in the door with psychedelic psychotherapy. Earning a Ph.D. or PsyD or even a medical degree such as a Psychiatry is a large investment in both your time and money. This route may not be the best option for everyone and it is important to know what you are interested in or what skills you are strong in. Maybe science and math is not your strong point, so pursuing a clinical psychology degree to become a clinical psychologist may not suit you. Some people just want to be able to conduct psychotherapy and there are plenty of ways to do so, such as getting a master’s degree in clinical mental health or social work. Weigh your options and think about what fits you the best.
Specialty and Niche: Like the bachelor’s advice, what is your specialty or expertise? What role can you play later on? The field of psychedelic research is looking for individuals with specialties. Look into the ways how to develop an expertise in the field. If your interest is in trauma, research how to develop a focus in body psychotherapy for trauma disorders. Focus on alternative treatments for addiction.
Passion and Drive: Since earning a professional degree or a doctorate degree is both an investment of time and money, you are going to need to be passionate about what you are studying. There are many people who start programs and realize that it is not for them. Know that if you want to pursue a professional career in psychedelics, you’re in it for the long haul!
Is There Therapeutic Benefit: If you are interested in research Ingmar mentioned that the funding may not be there for questions like, “how do these substances work?” or “how do they heal?” Even though the Imperial College of London has been doing amazing “how” research (how LSD, psilocybin, and MDMA affect the brain) there is not much of that type of research going on within the United States. The MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study wanted to know not how MDMA cures or helps PTSD, but rather, does MDMA-assisted psychotherapy help with PTSD?
Find a Mentor or Professor: It does not hurt to research mentors or professors in the field to see where they are teaching. Katherine Maclean mentioned in our latest interview that she was interested in psychedelic research and knew that Johns Hopkins was researching psilocybin. Look for post-doctorate fellowships, internships, etc. Attend a school that is doing the research
Find Grants for Research: If you are enrolled in a program and can find a faculty member that supports your psychedelic mission, try to find grants or scholarship money to support your research program. The Source Research Foundation is a new organization that is helping to provide grant money to students who want to conduct psychedelic research.
Training and Education: As mentioned in the “For Students” section above, there are various training/education opportunities that will help you grow and develop new skills. Please view the list above for ideas.
Best of Luck! We wish you the best of luck on your psychedelic journey and hope that you find this information useful. MAPS has a lot of great information and be sure to check out their “resource” section.
Be sure to leave a comment, subscribe to our podcast, and connect with us. We would love to hear from you.
Download In this 88th episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Mike Brancatelli of the Mikeadelic podcast. After returning from a three-month Amazonian ayahuasca sojourn, Mikeadelic himself shares information about this extraordinary experience, how he has gotten involved in psychedelics and his journey.
Show Notes:
● Mike Brancatelli spent his three-month trip in Peru at the Temple of the Way of Lights with their residency program in the heart of the Amazon jungle during an ayahuasca retreat.
● Mike was previously doing stand-up comedy in New York City with his friend Dave Smith called “Part of the Problem.”
● Mikeadelic the podcast began in the spring of 2016.
● Drinking ayahuasca will produce an effect on you, especially when coupled with ceremony and healing songs.
● During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
● He feels passionate about ending the war on drugs and the prison industrial complex.
● You can remain filled with passion and compassion without being emotionally attached. Sit with your feelings without letting them control how you respond.
● The information overload of media drowns your spirit.
● A morning routine with meditation is helpful to get centered and focused for the rest of the day.
● The Netflix TV series “Wild Wild Country” is a true story about a controversial cult leader claiming to enlighten people.
● “Enlightenment Now” is a book about the enlightenment philosophy “science, reason and humanism”. It is a contemporary take on that philosophy – you could call Pinker’s take a Modern Enlightenment philosophy. Steven Pinker wrote the book. Joe Moore, suggests it and found out about it from the Bill Gates’s.
● “The Internet of Money” Volume 1 and Volume 2 by Andreas M. Antonopoulos is another interesting read suggested by Joe Moore.
● Before ayahuasca use, listen to your heart to understand why you want to try it.
3 Key Points:
1. During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
2. It is incredibly brave to be willing to confront your stress and be willing to stare into your soul and slay your demons.
3. Remain passionate, compassionate, and acknowledge the problems in the world, but don’t stay emotionally attached to them. Become mindful of how you respond.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Joe Moore interviews Brian Normand of Psymposia and coordinator of the Cryptopsychedelic Conference.
Episode Quotes
Banks are devaluing currency by charging high fees.
With blockchain, you’ve got to think in the long-term.
There’s so much going on with crypto, you can’t keep up.
What blockchain developer wants to go work for Facebook?
Show Notes
Joe and Brian discuss the CryptoPsychedelic Conference the took place in Tulum, Mexico.
What is blockchain?
A next-gen decentralized ledger.
A peer-to-peer border-less, institution-less payment system.
Money will be one of the first users of blockchain.
Banks are devaluing currency by charging high fees.
The whole concept of money will transform, it will be a border-less thing.
When Napster came out, peer to peer transfer became a very popular technology.
When the record companies worried about being irrelevant, they sued.
There could be something like Spotify that pays artists more fairly than Spotify currently does.
Social media could be rebuilt.
We could no longer be the product being sold, but get paid for our contributions.
Could crypto be used to trace the history and purity of substances?
Yes, that’s a definite use case.
The first voting on a blockchain happened in Sierra Leone.
You’ve got to think in the long term.
What were some of the more interesting things that came out of the CryptoPsychedelic conference?
Some of the new relationships and seeing the potential collaboration between the two communities.
Projects in this space need to be taken on.
It was a time to question, not really a time for answers.
Watch the movie 2001 a Space Odyssey in one sitting.
Every time you watch it you come away with a new experience.
Cryptocurrencies are border-less, some have minimal fees, and it’s instant.
Decentralized systems
Information is easier to access, it doesn’t have to climb up a ladder.
The DAO is the Decentralized Autonomous Organization – there is no hierarchy.
Government could eventually be run via blockchain.
How could we use the internet to further the message of psychedelics?
Before the internet, the only way you were exposed to information was top down.
Networks, authority institutions.
Because of the internet, information is moving more horizontally.
How do you change incentive structures in the drug war? Could it be these new technologies?
The rate of innovation now is way faster than it was when the internet was first coming out.
You cannot keep up with what’s going on, there’s too much going on.
Look at money as a tool or form of energy.
Crypto will change everyone’s concept of paying taxes.
Air BnB cut the cities completely out of the picture.
Taxes and healthcare or both extremely important and impossible for people to understand.
Internet privacy is a big deal in crypto and psychedelics alike.
Brian doesn’t think that Facebook will ultimately make it.
Developers want to build new tools to take down the giants like Facebook.
Recently, Facebook announced a decline in users.
What can you do to reverse becoming “uncool”?
Reddit’s price per impression is much lower.
Steemit has a fascinating model.
It would be cool if you could be compensated for putting helpful content online.
We assume that the way the internet is now is how it’s always going to be.
How can we use the tool to help the people whose lives aren’t privileged like ours?
In a lot of refugee camps, you can’t have cash, so crypto is huge for them.
What happens when people who are impoverished around the world can now crowdfund?
Brian Normand is CoFounder of Psymposia, entrepreneur, and advocate of psychedelic science, therapy, and drug reform. He attended the University of Massachusetts Amherst and holds a B.S. in Plant, Soil, and Insect Science, Magna Cum Laude.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Stefanie Jones, the Director of Audience Development at the Drug Policy Alliance.
There are risks and benefits to all drug use.
Ultimately, you don’t want your teenager to use drugs, but if they do, you want to keep them safe and give them the right information.
The festival community needs to be so much more aware of opioid overdose and drug checking.
Show Notes
About Stefanie Jones
In her role, she oversees communication and outreach to specific communities on drug use and drug policy topics.
Personally runs the DPA music fan program.
She works on the Safer Partying program which has four goals:
Ending stigma against people who use drugs at festivals, concerts, and clubs.
Amending the illicit drug anti-proliferation act – aka The Rave Act.
Making drug checking happen in as many places and forms as possible.
Stopping the criminalization of party-goers.
The DPA is launching a pilot study at a school in Brooklyn with more honest and accurate information about drugs.
She’s been working for the Drug Policy Alliance for almost 13 years.
Stefanie Jones develops materials that bring us closer to drug policy reform.
She works with two different audiences:
Parents and educators
Drug users at events and concerts.
Drug education for teenagers and parents goes back a long way at DPA.
Marsha Rosenbaum wrote a very famous letter to her son who was about to go into school.
She wrote a booklet called “Safety First.” A reality-based approach to teens and drugs.
Stefanie Jones put together a harm reduction-based curriculum to be taught in schools.
Stefanie Jones is director of audience development at the Drug Policy Alliance, based in New York. In this role she oversees communication and outreach to specific communities on drug use and drug policy topics, including on novel psychoactive substances (NPS) and DPA’s youth drug education work. She personally runs the Music Fan program, which introduces harm reduction principles and drug policy alternatives to partygoers, public health officials and city nightlife regulators across the U.S.
In her prior role within the organization as an event manager, she produced four progressively larger editions of the biennial International Drug Policy Reform Conference, as well as numerous local policy conferences, fundraisers and coalition-building meetings.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your hosts Kyle Buller and Joe Moore talk to Zach Leary host of the MAPS podcast and It’s All Happening. We have an incredible time talking to Zach and his worldview, experiences, opinions and much more. It was a very fun time recording with Zach and we hope it can happen again in the near future.
Show Notes
Joe and Kyle discuss Zach’s connections with Ram Dass
Zach Leary calls himself a futurist and we discuss what a futurist is.
A natural way to continue the narrative of our physical evolution and our spiritual development.
Cyberspace is an invention as a result of our human condition.
The way and the reason we invented it is that we found a need to create another dimension.
Futurism and transhumanism and embracing the way technology is augmenting the human experience is a great place to be.
Do you see any major problems in psychedelia?
Overall, it’s a great time to be into psychedelics.
There’s so much research and data available to the end-user and the discussion is improving.
Many people are starting to be more open about their beneficial relationship with psychedelics.
It’s important to get people in the mainstream aware of their beneficial properties.
The Ayahuasca fad going on in the U.S. has many people calling themselves shamans, which raised a red flag to Zach.
It used to be that going to the medicine man was a common occurrence in any culture.
Mysticism didn’t go away, it just got turned into a more doctrinal practice.
The part of the church that bothers Zach is the authoritarian aspect, that there is only one god.
There’s an element of fanaticism when someone says there’s only one drug that’s worth taking.
April 19 is the 75th anniversary of the first intentional use of LSD (Bicycle Day).
We have to start re-thinking about what “natural” means.
The human imagination and what it creates is a by-product of nature.
There’s no stopping the technological march, the train has left the station.
A return to nature can include biodiverse rooftop gardens in New York.
It’s very hard to get off the grid.
What do we have that’s readily available and sustainable?
Mushrooms
LSD
Other synthetic compounds that don’t bother the rainforest, etc.
Zach is the host of both the “It’s All Happening with Zach Leary” podcast and “The MAPS Podcast.” They have helped to cement him as one of the most thought provoking podcasters in the cultural philosophy genre of podcasting. He’s also a blogger/writer, a futurist, spiritualist, a technology consultant and socio-cultural theorist.
In all of Zach’s work he blends his roles as a spiritual aspirant and a futurist into a unique identity all his own. His spiritual background has it’s roots in being a practitioner of bhakti yoga as taught through many of the vedantic systems of Northern India, in particular Neem Karoli Baba as taught by Ram Dass. Through the practice of bhakti yoga he has found keys that unlock doorways that allow the soul to experience it’s true nature of being eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. In addition to bhakti yoga, Zach is influenced by many different methods and traditions of consciousness exploration ranging from trans-humanism to buddhism and clinical psychology. Zach is also a frequent pundit on the political systems that are fueling todays economic and cultural structures. At the core of all of Zach’s work is the belief that we have been fused together by the collective practice of using technology to expand our species imagination with spirituality and mysticism to define the very nature of who we are.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe speak to Dennis McKenna (of Dennis McKenna fame) and Mark Plotkin founder of the Amazon Conservation Team. We discuss a broad range of subjects. One of the most interesting was a project that Dennis and many others have been working on for over a year at the time of recording this, titled Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs, which was a conference in the UK in 2017. It was a 50-year follow up to the initial event (and later seminal book) that Richard Evan Schultes, Ph.D. helped coordinate and host.
This link will take you to a page where you can see all of the talks that were given at ESPD50. https://vimeo.com/album/4766647
We really think you’ll enjoy the show. Please let us know what you think and if you can, pre-order the ESPD 50 to save some money on the post-release price.
“In 1967, a landmark symposium entitled Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs was held in San Francisco, California. It was the first international, interdisciplinary group of specialists – from ethnobotanists to neuroscientists – who gathered in one place to share their findings on the use of psychoactive plants in indigenous societies. Follow-up meetings were intended to be held every ten years, but the War on Drugs intervened. The findings of the convention were printed in a book entitled with the same name as the gathering.
On the 50th anniversary during the month of June 2017 an international group of specialists gathered again to share their perspectives on past, present, and future research in ethnopharmacology. The symposium was held at the spectacular Tyringham Hall in Britain.
ESPD50 was organized by a team led by Dennis McKenna, Founder of Symbio Life Sciences, PBC. Synergetic Press published a collector’s box set including the first edition of 1967 plus a brand new book with the 50th-anniversary symposium’s findings.”
Dr. Plotkin has led ACT and guided its vision since 1996, when he co-founded the organization with his fellow conservationist, Liliana Madrigal. He is a renowned ethnobotanist who has spent almost three decades studying traditional plant use with traditional healers of tropical America.
Dr. Plotkin has previously served as Research Associate in Ethnobotanical Conservation at the Botanical Museum of Harvard University; Director of Plant Conservation at the World Wildlife Fund; Vice President of Conservation International; and Research Associate at the Department of Botany of the Smithsonian Institution.
Among his many influential writings, Dr. Plotkin may be best known for his popular work Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice (1994), which has been printed continuously and has been published in multiple languages. Other works include the critically acclaimed children’s book The Shaman’s Apprentice – A Tale of the Amazon Rainforest, illustrated by Lynne Cherry, and Medicine Quest: In Search of Nature’s Healing Secrets. His most recent book, The Killers Within: The Deadly Rise of Drug-Resistant Bacteria, coauthored with Michael Shnayerson, was selected as a Discover Magazine book of the year.
In 1998, he played a leading role in the Academy Award-nominated IMAX film Amazon. Dr. Plotkin’s work also has been featured in a PBS Nova documentary, in an Emmy-winning Fox TV documentary, on the NBC Nightly News and Today Show, CBS’ 48 Hours and in Life, Newsweek, Smithsonian, Elle, People, The New York Times, along with appearances on National Public Radio. Time magazine called him an “Environmental Hero for the Planet” (2001) and Smithsonian magazine hailed him as one of “35 Who Made a Difference” (2005), along with Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg, and fellow New Orleanian Wynton Marsalis.
Dr. Plotkin has received the San Diego Zoo Gold Medal for Conservation; the Roy Chapman Andrews Distinguished Explorer Award; an International Conservation Leadership Award from the Jane Goodall Institute; and, with Liliana Madrigal, the Skoll Foundation’s Award for Social Entrepreneurship. In 2010, he received the honorary degree of “Doctor of Humane Letters” from Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon. Dr. Plotkin was educated at Harvard, Yale and Tufts University.
About the Amazon Conservation Team
The Amazon Conservation Team (ACT) is a non-profit organization dedicated to preserving South American rainforests. This small but robust outfit occupies a unique niche among other environmental non-profits working in the tropics: ACT works hand in hand with local indigenous communities to devise and implement its conservation strategies.
About Dennis McKenna
Dennis Jon McKenna is an American ethnopharmacologist, research pharmacognosist, lecturer, and author. He is a founding board member and the director of ethnopharmacology at the Heffter Research Institute, a non-profit organization concerned with the investigation of the potential therapeutic uses of psychedelic medicines.
McKenna received his Master’s degree in botany at the University of Hawaii in 1979. He received his doctorate in botanical sciences in 1984 from the University of British Columbia,[2] where he wrote a dissertation entitled Monoamine oxidase inhibitors in Amazonian hallucinogenic plants: ethnobotanical, phytochemical, and pharmacological investigations. McKenna then received post-doctoral research fellowships in the Laboratory of Clinical Pharmacology, National Institute of Mental Health, and in the Department of Neurology, Stanford University School of Medicine.
Joe recently had the opportunity to interview an old friend, Tarif Ahmed while visiting Long Island, New York. They had the opportunity to record about all sorts of things from diversity, privilege, open source experimentation with different psychedelic regimens, bringing psychedelics safely into Islam and much more.
If you enjoy the episode, please let us know what you think by leaving an iTunes review!
Topics in the show
Meeting at Evolver Boston events years ago.
Race and privilege
Growing up in a Muslim community
Bringing in psychedelics into Muslim communities quietly
How status could be helpful in the Muslim world
Possible psychedelic origins of some aspects of Islam
Psychedelic art
Sufism
Some teachings
Open source testing of ideas on places like reddit
Tracking experiences and tests in a journal is very important
Working with mentors long term to have consistent support over time
Nicholas Powers Ph.D. is a poet, journalist, and Associate Professor of English, SUNY Old Westbury. Nick joins us to talk about psychedelics, race, cultural diversity, and the future of psychedelics. Race and diversity within the psychedelic community has been a hot topic lately, and it is an important topic to continue discussing and examining. Unfortunately, the community is exclusive to people of privilege and power, which shows some concern when it comes to the future direction of this field, as it leaves out diverse ideas and beliefs from people from other cultural backgrounds and communities.
What are your thoughts on this topic? Leave us a comment below!
Show Topics
Diversity in research
Monica Williams – Diversity in the psychedelic research
The trust between diverse populations and institutional research
History of forced sterilizations and the Tuskegee syphilis study
The importance of storytelling and authentically listening to stories of people from other cultural backgrounds
Start your own psychedelic community
Psychedelics and intergenerational trauma
Including minority groups into the psychedelic community
Nicholas Powers is a poet, journalist and professor. His books, The Ground Below Zero and Theater of War, was published by Upset Press. He has written for The Indypendent, Alternet and The Village Voice. He has spoken and read all over the country. He teaches literature at SUNY Old Westbury and co-hosts the long running New York City College Poetry Slam at the Nuyorican Cafe. If you would like to work with Nick, please contact tara@upsetpress.org.
Download Dr. Matt Brown of the Chicago Psychedelic Club and the Psychedelics and the Future of Psychiatry Meetup joins us to talk about his interests and involvement with psychedelics. We talk about how Dr. Brown got interested in psychedelic research and how he got involved in forming two psychedelic meet up groups in Chicago.
Leave us a comment below and let us know what you think!
Show Notes
Perspectives on psychedelics
Creating a psychedelic meetup
Building community
Introducing more voices into the conversation besides medical professionals and students – artists and other creative people can help to provide various insights into the psychedelic conversation.
If you enjoy the show, please consider donating to our Patreon!
About Dr. Matt Brown D.O., M.B.A.
Dr. Brown Specializes in whole health psychiatry. This approach differs from many other practitioners who more and more practice symptomatic management when it comes to mental health. Dr. Brown takes the perspective that the body has the ability to heal itself, but from time to time may need assistance through balancing the things that are important for physical health that are also important from mental health. These include, sleep, diet, exercise, meditative/spiritual practice and cultivating positive social relationships. Dr. Brown also has a strong command of how to balance vital nutrients in our body with the aid of supplementation to augment traditional psychopharmacological therapies. Dr. Brown’s method is aimed primarily at the treatment of Depression and Anxiety as well as other mood disorders and ADHD. Dr. Brown is a specialist in the treatment of OCD specifically and is board certified by the ABPN in both adult as well as child and adolescent psychiatry.
Download Emanuel Sferios joins us to talk about his upcoming film “MDMA The Movie” along with the founding story of Dance Safe.
Emanuel has a fascinating story that includes.
Humble beginnings
Lots of media attention
Huge amounts of fundraising for harm reduction
A film that is going to be incredible. Check out the trailers below!
MDMA was one of the last drugs that the old guard anti drug US government worked to smear with disinformation and outright lies, using outlets like Oprah and more to stain MDMA’s reputation. While Ophra’s media empire has now come around a bit, MDMA continues to hold parts of the social stigma that Oprah helped to give it. Emanuel tells the story here with on the ground details in ways that Kyle and Joe haven’t heard before.
We hope you love it!
If you enjoyed this episode you may love these other podcasts.
If you maintain a drug involved premises, you can be liable
“Massives” – Testing at massives – early raves – huge lines
Reducing harm by drug decriminalization
Cognitive liberty for adults
Gas chromatography & Mass spectrometry
Want to learn more about psychedelic harm reduction, safety, and integration? Sign up for our online course!
Find MDMA The Movie On Social Media
About Emanuel Sferios
Emanuel Sferios is an activist, educator, public speaker and harm reduction advocate. Founding DanceSafe in 1998, Emanuel was an early pioneer of MDMA harm reduction. DanceSafe has volunteer chapters in over two dozen cities across the United States and provides non-judgmental, peer-based drug education and drug checking (a.k.a., “pill testing”) services in the electronic dance music community. Emanuel also started the first public laboratory pill analysis program in 1999 which allowed ecstasy users for the first time to anonymously send tablets to a DEA-licensed laboratory for chromatography analysis. Originally publishing the results on the DanceSafe website, the program still exists today and is hosted at Ecstasydata.org.
Today Emanuel speaks at colleges and universities about MDMA, harm reduction, and drug policy. He lives in Grass Valley, California with his wife and two stepchildren.
Download Kwasi Adusei of the Psychedelic Society of Western New York joins us to talk about the Global Psychedelic Month of Service campaign. This is a wonderful campaign to help encourage members of the psychedelic community to become more involved in their communities.
About The Global Psychedelic Month of Service
Still hiding in the psychedelic closet? Looking for an opportunity to join the movement? This November, find a need in your community, gather your friends, and participate in the Global Psychedelic Month of Service.
In the month of November, the global psychedelic community invites you to take on a need in your community in the name of psychedelics. Psychedelic groups all over the world are joining the cause by giving back.
At the core of the psychedelic movement is a mission of social activism. So take part in seeing this mission through by volunteering at your local soup kitchen, food pantry, or doing a community clean up.
The integration of a psychedelic experience is as important as the experience itself. Transform the feelings of connectedness induced by the psychedelic experience, into actions of connectedness.
How to get involved
1. Find a local service organization
2. Reach out to find volunteer opportunities in the month of November
3. Find psychedelic friends to volunteer with
4. Volunteer and send in pictures and number of hours completed
What to join the cause? Email buffalopsychedelic@yahoo.com with your name and location so we can add you to the list of participating individuals.
Kwasi Adusei Show Topics
Building community
Breaking down stigma
Doing psychedelic things
Spending time helping
Doing compassionate things
Psychedelic values and morals
Access to expensive MDMA therapies
How to bring more diversity into the psychedelic movement
Kwasi dedicates his work in the psychedelic movement to altering the stigma in mainstream channels by promoting the science, the healing potential of psychedelics, and civic engagement.
Kwasi is a nurse and a doctoral student at the University at Buffalo, studying to be a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner. He is the founder of the Psychedelic Society of Western New York and project manager for Psychonauts of the World, an initiative to share meaningful psychedelic stories, with the ultimate goal of publishing them in a book as an avenue to raise money for psychedelic research. He is also one of the administrators for the Global Psychedelic Network, a conglomerate of psychedelic groups and individuals from around the world.
He hopes to use his training and education to become a psychedelic therapist. Born in Ghana and raised in the Bronx, New York, Kwasi hopes to bring psychedelic therapy to communities of color.
Kyle and Joe report from the scene of the amazing Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics conference. We had the chance to interview attendees of Horizons NYC 2017 outside the venue on the closing day.
Horizons is a fantastic event at an amazing venue in the heart of Manhattan at the historic venue – “The Cooper Union.” The same podium on stage was shared by Abraham Lincoln, Susan B Anthony, and along with many other important historical figures.
It was an amazing event and we hope that this episode helps share some of the excitement. We talked to past guests, future guests, and also some new friends. You may recognize some of the voices 🙂 Let us know what you think of this episode and if you want to hear similar episodes to this in the future.
In the show, we speak about a lot of things from Horizons NYC including
The most interesting thing learned
The sense of community inside a conference like this
Some problems the movement has that we need to stay aware of
Issues with communicating the science of psychedelics with a wider audience
Volunteering for events for free tickets
Do you want to listen to Joe and Kyle recap their highlights of the conference and the Psymposia Microdosing event? Support us on Patreon to get exclusive access! Check out the video introduction to this episode – Here
Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics is an annual forum that examines the role of psychedelic drugs in science, medicine, culture, and spirituality.
In recent years, a growing community of scientists, doctors, artists, activists, seekers, and scholars have orchestrated a renaissance in psychedelic thought and practice.
Horizons brings together the brightest minds and the boldest voices of this movement to share their research, insights, and dreams for the future.
Horizons was founded in 2007 by Kevin Balktick, with Neal M. Goldsmith, Ph.D., joining as speaker curator and MC in 2008.
Horizons Media, Inc., a 501c(3) not-for-profit educational charity, is currently led by board members Kevin Balktick, Neal M. Goldsmith, Ph.D., James Vasile, Esq., and Ingmar Gorman, M.A.
Having outgrown Judson Memorial Church, its original location, Horizons is now hosted at The Cooper Union Great Hall, which has been a center for public dialogue since its founding in 1858, having hosted such illustrious speakers as Abraham Lincoln, Mark Twain, Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, and more recently, Barack Obama.
Horizons Media, Inc. conducts no other business besides the annual conference and is funded in solely by registration and concession sales. All profits go towards producing and improving the following year’s event. Its board members are not compensated.
Horizons Media, Inc. is not a political advocacy or scientific research organization, nor does it have any financial relationships with other organizations and businesses that participate as presenters or informational presences.
Sign up for our online course, “Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care & Integration”
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Animals are known to indulge in psychoactive compounds. Humans are not the only species who like to become intoxicated. From bees drinking to fermented nectars to reindeer of the Siberian tundra eating Amanita muscaria mushrooms, Aaron and Andras find a creative way to start a conversation about drug policy, harm reduction, and psychedelics. Aaron and Andras have started a company that produces tshirts depicting cute animals doing drugs. While this may seem like a way to promote drug use using cute animals, Aaron and Andras have a deeper meaning, which is about starting a conversation and trying to shift the cultural narrative about drug use.
If you want to get one of your own t-shirts, use the coupon code: PSYCHEDELICSTODAY25 to receive 25% off your purchase!
Cute Animals Doing Drugs was created by two friends to raise awareness around these issues, support drug policy reform, and encourage honest conversations about drugs in everyday life.
We believe individuals have the right to sovereignty over their own consciousness and that there is no reason to deny any adult the safe and beneficial use of psychoactive substances.
We believe social and political change can start from the bottom-up. Our apparel serves as a conversation-starter and a fun, unique way to show your support for an increasingly important social issue.
Cute Animals Doing Drugs is here to call attention to these issues, support psychedelic research, encourage drug policy reform, and promote cognitive liberty for all.
We also donate 10% of our pre-tax profits to MAPS, the Drug Policy Alliance, and other drug-related non-profit organizations.
Andras L is a cofounder of Cute Animals Doing Drugs Apparel, an initiative intended to help shift societal perceptions around drug use. Cute Animals builds on his previous work as a director on the board of Canadian Students for Sensible Drug Policy, where he advocated for the advancement of harm reduction and evidence-based drug policy reform. He is especially focused on reversing harmful policies and combating stigma. Andras graduated with an M.Sc. in Primary Care Research from McGill University and now researches infectious disease.
Aaron
Aaron co-founded Cute Animals Doing Drugs Apparel with Andras in the summer of 2017. He finished his BA at McGill University in 2014 and has since been traveling the world and working online. Aaron has a longstanding fascination with psychedelics, and is particularly interested in the subjective elements of psychedelics experience as well as the potential broad social impact of mainstreaming psychedelic use, especially in spiritual contexts. He writes about personal development, spirituality, and psychedelic experience at freedomandfulfilment.com.
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What is microdosing? Is this a growing trend in the psychedelic community? What do some people in the psychedelic community think about it? Can it really help boost creativity and productivity? While the idea that microdosing can help with depression, creativity, and productivity, these claims are usually backed by self-reported experiences. There is currently no hard science/research that highlights the risks, safety, or benefits of this concept despite the growing trend and loads of anecdotal evidence. If you want to learn more about this current trend, be sure to get your ticket to the upcoming Psymposia Microdosing event. We are sure all of these questions will be laid out on the table, and it will sure be a great night and discussion!
Brian Normand, Co-Founder of Psymposia, joins us again to talk about the Psymposia Microdosing event/Horizons afterparty. The event will be hosted by the one and only, Duncan Trussell. If you have plans to attend the Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics conference in NYC, be sure to check out the afterparty. It is always a great time and also a great place to “find the others.”
Save 5 dollars on your ticket with the coupon code psychedelicstoday
We also cover topics revolving around drug policy and Brian’s experience in the Amazon.
You’re invited to Psymposia’s 4th annual celebration following day 1 of the Horizons Perspectives on Psychedelics forum in New York City that examines the role of psychedelic drugs in science, healing, culture and spirituality.
This year, Comedian Duncan Trussell joins Hamilton Morris (VICELAND’s Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia), Katherine MacLean, Sophia Korb, and Paul Austin to talk about everything you wanted to know about microdosing and more, surrounded by a live audience in Brooklyn.
Co-sponsored by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies // MAPS
Brian Normand is CoFounder, lead designer, and webmaster of Psymposia. He’s a greenthumb, social entrepreneur & occasional trouble maker, focused on changing minds and creating spaces to teach people about plants and drugs. He graduated from the University of Massachusetts Amherst with a BS in Plant, Soil, Insect Science, & Sustainable Horticulture, Magna Cum Laude.
Joe speaks with Becca Segall Tarnas about her work with Carl Jung’s Red Book and J.R.R. Tolkien. There is a substantial amount of overlap between the two. Why these two in a show about psychedelics? Transpersonal Jungian psychology is the bridge. There appears to be objects or entities beyond the veil of our perception and understanding (so far). We have a collective imagination collective unconscious that these things interact in. Psychedelics and other methods can give us access to these. Becca will be presenting her work to this point at the Prague ITC 2017. This discussion goes all over the world, so feel free to reach out if you have any questions. We really enjoy Becca’s work and hope to have her on again in the near future!
About Becca Segall Tarnas
Becca Segall Tarnasis a doctoral candidate in the Philosophy and Religion department at the California Institute of Integral Studies. Her dissertation research is focused on the theoretical implications of the synchronicity between the Red Books of C.G. Jung and J.R.R. Tolkien. Becca received her M.A. from CIIS, and her B.A. from Mount Holyoke College. Her research interests include ecology, imagination, philosophy, and depth psychology, and she is also co-editor of Archai: The Journal of Archetypal Cosmology.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost; the old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost. J. R. R. Tolkien
“The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can.” Tolkien – The Fellowship of the Ring
“I indignantly answered, “Do you call light what we men call the worst darkness? Do you call day night?”
To this my soul spoke a word that roused my anger, “My light is not of this world.”
I cried, “I know of no other world!”
The soul answered, “Should it not exist because you know nothing of it?”
― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus
Download This talk was recorded live in Bolton, Vermont during a MAPS Psychedelic Dinner fundraising event in May 2016.
Lenny Gibson presented a lecture during the event about the brief history of psychedelics in the Western world — surveying the ancient Greek mysteries to the current contemporary psychedelic culture.
“Blessed is he who, having seen these rites,
undertakes the way beneath the Earth.
He knows the end of life,
as well as its divinely granted beginning.” Pindar
Creatures for a day! What is a man?What is he not? A dream of a shadow Is our mortal being. But when there comes to menA gleam of splendour given of heaven,Then rests on them a light of glory And blessed are their days. Pindar
I suddenly became strangely inebriated. The external world became changed as in a dream. Objects appeared to gain in relief; they assumed unusual dimensions; and colours became more glowing. Even self-perception and the sense of time were changed. When the eyes were closed, coloured pictures flashed past in a quickly changing kaleidoscope. After a few hours, the not unpleasant inebriation, which had been experienced whilst I was fully conscious, disappeared. What had caused this condition?
Dr. Albert Hofmann – Laboratory Notes (1943)
To fathom hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic.
Dr Humphry Osmond
Leonard Gibson, Ph.D., graduated from Williams College and earned doctorates from Claremont Graduate School in philosophy and The University of Texas at Austin in psychology. Lenny has 50 years of experience working with non–ordinary states of consciousness. He has taught at The University of Tulsa and Lesley College and served his clinical psychology internship at the Boston, MA V.A. Hospital. He also taught transpersonal psychology for 20 years at Burlington College. Lenny serves on the board of the Community Health Centers of the Rutland Region in Vermont. A survivor of throat cancer, he facilitates the head and neck cancer support group at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center. He is a past president of the Association of Holotropic Breathwork International.
You can find out more about Lenny at these two links.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle discuss the difference contexts of psychedelic use:
Therapeutic
Recreational
Psychospiritual & Self-Discovery
Ceremonial & Shamanic
While these categories can be flexible and sometimes merge into one another, we thought that it would be important to give context to the variety of experiences. As MAPS has just received “Breakthrough Therapy” status on the MDMA-assisted psychotherapy research, this is an exciting time for research and therapeutic use of a powerful medicine. However, there may be some confusion about how the therapeutic approach is different from some of these other contexts and ways of using psychedelics. While we believe that all contexts are valid or legitimate and each carry their own risk/benefit, we thought that it would be helpful and fun to talk about our views about this subject.
Zoe Helene of Cosmic Sister and Medicine Hunter joins us to discuss feminism, psychedelic feminism and eco feminism, and her organization, Cosmic Sister. During this conversation, we explore ayahuasca safety in general as well as ayahuasca safety for women — from understanding the risks of Toé as an admixture to ayahuasca to traveling in a group to stay safe.
Other Show Topics
Synthetic vs Natural compounds
Masculine energy in the psychedelic space
Ayahuasca Dieta
Sex and ayahuasca
Working with sexual energy pre and post ceremony
Sexual abuse in the medicine space
Finding one’s voice and power
What is Psychedelic Feminism?
Psychedelic Feminism is a sub-genre of feminism that embraces the power of the frontier field of psychedelic healing, transformation, inspiration, and mind/body/spirit exploration into altered states of consciousness. Safe, intentional journeying with psychedelics can help women look deeply inside themselves, in part to face core feminist issues in fresh and exciting ways. – Cosmic Sister
About Cosmic Sister
Cosmic Sister® is a network that connects kindred-spirit women in mutually supportive ways, working collectively toward shared goals while enhancing the personal journey of each individual. Cosmic Sister promotes love, higher consciousness, abundance and creativity, and members pledge to hold each other’s best interests at heart as allies and affiliates. We want to see women shine.
We envision a healthy, life-affirming balance of power between genders, worldwide. We envision a well world where women are fully respected globally, where their voices are heard and respected, and where a natural, healthy, life-affirming gender balance is restored. We believe that many of the world’s most critical problems are a result of a gross gender imbalance that has been sustained for thousands of years. We do not want our species to evolve in the direction we see the majority of human beings choosing, and we wish to be part of a global cultural shift that helps us evolve more rationally and with functioning minds, hearts and spirits with respect and love for other life-forms and the planet we all depend on to survive. We are passionate about helping to protect wilderness spaces and wildlife species that are currently in crisis or threatened.
Zoe Helene, MFA, an artist, environmental and cultural activist, and psychedelic feminist, founded Cosmic Sister, an “underground collective” for women who understand that balance of power between genders is the only way to true sustainability—a system in which all parties (human and non-human) thrive. Educational advocacy projects championing women’s frontline voices are a core concept in Cosmic Sister’s approach to creating positive change. Through these projects, Zoe emphasizes our responsibility—as Earth’s apex predator—to evolve ethically. Cosmic Sister’s educational advocacy projects include a trio of psychedelic feminism grants—Women of the Psychedelic Renaissance, Cosmic Sisters of Cannabis and the merit-based immersive Plant Spirit Grant—promote sacred plants (and fungi) such as ayahuasca, cannabis, peyote, and psilocybin mushrooms and our fundamental human right to journey with them. Zoe’s work in the field is focused on how exploring the wilderness of our own psyches with these natural allies can be a profoundly self-liberating experience for females in male-dominated cultures. She also speaks out for cannabis as a sacred plant for journeying and an “ambassador” for promoting the greater plant medicine conversation.
Zoe’s work has been featured in Bust, Vice, Forbes, Outside Magazine, Boston Magazine, Wisdom Daily, Utne Reader, AlterNet, Newsday and others, and her articles and interviews have been published in LA Yoga, Boston Yoga, Utne Reader, Huffington Post, Organic Spa Magazine, Eco Salon, Organic Authority and more. She has presented to audiences ranging from top-tier corporate executives to nonprofit organizations and women’s empowerment gatherings. Most recently, she led a psychedelic feminism talking circle at Bastyr University, and taught about Psychedelic Feminism: Core Concepts and Key Stages for Plant Spirit Journeying and Global Sustainable Medicinal Plant Trade at the 30th Anniversary of Rosemary Gladstar’s Women’s Herbal Conference. For the past decade, Zoe has traveled to remote regions of the globe with her husband, ethnobotanist and Medicine Hunter Chris Kilham, to promote medicinal plants (including sacred plants), environmental protection and cultural preservation and bear witness to the state of women, wilderness and wildlife. She also supports media professionals in communicating messages around global sustainable plant medicine and has worked with NBC Nightly News, The New York Times, The Dr. Oz Show and many others.
For the past decade, Zoe Helene has traveled to remote regions of the globe with her husband and partner Medicine Hunter Chris Kilham, to promote medicinal plants, environmental protection and cultural preservation.
Download Daniel Pinchbeck, author of the new book, How Soon is Now?joins us this week to talk about the global ecological crisis, climate change, and how psychedelics may play a role in transforming human culture.
If you do believe that we are in a time of great ecological crisis, what are you doing about it? Taking action is the most important step to creating change, but are we willing to take the sacrifices and action to create change?
Daniel shares his insights about how to take action to implement change. While some of these changes may be challenging, i.e., stop traveling as much, it may be necessary to help cut carbon emissions and to slow down the global warming cycle. Or is it too late to even take action?
Our model controlled for experiences with other classes of psychoactive substances (cannabis, dissociatives, empathogens, popular legal drugs) as well as common personality traits that usually predict drug consumption and/or nature relatedness (openness to experience, conscientiousness, conservatism). Although correlational in nature, results suggest that lifetime experience with psychedelics in particular may indeed contribute to people’s pro-environmental behavior by changing their self-construal in terms of an incorporation of the natural world, regardless of core personality traits or general propensity to consume mind-altering substances. Thereby, the present research adds to the contemporary literature on the beneficial effects of psychedelic substance use on mental wellbeing, hinting at a novel area for future research investigating their potentially positive effects on a societal level.
We are on the brink of an ecological mega-crisis, threatening the future of life on earth, and our actions over the next few years may well determine the destiny of our descendants. Between a manifesto and a tactical plan of action, How Soon is Now? by radical futurist and philosopher Daniel Pinchbeck, outlines a vision for a mass social movement that will address this crisis.
Drawing on extensive research, Daniel Pinchbeck presents a compelling argument for the need for change on a global basis. The central thesis is that humanity has unconsciously self-willed ecological catastrophe to bring about a transcendence of our current condition. We are facing an initiatory ordeal on a planetary scale. We can understand that this initiation is necessary for us to evolve from one state of being – our current level of consciousness – to the next. Overcoming outmoded ideologies, we will realize ourselves as one unified being, a planetary super-organism in a symbiotic relationship with the Earth’s ecology and the entire web of life.
Covering everything from energy and agriculture, to culture, politics, media and ideology, How Soon Is Now? is ultimately about the nature of the human soul and the future of our current world. Pinchbeck calls for an intentional redesign of our current systems, transforming unjust and elitist structures into participatory, democratic, and inclusive ones. His viewpoint integrates indigenous design principles and Eastern metaphysics with social ecology and radical political thought in a new synthesis.
I am the author of Breaking Open the Head (Broadway Books, 2002), 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl (Tarcher/Penguin, 2006), Notes from the Edge Times(Tarcher/Penguin, 2010), andHow Soon Is Now (Watkins, 2017). I co-founded the web magazine, Reality Sandwich, and Evolver.net, and edited the publishing imprint, Evolver Editions, with North Atlantic Books. I was featured in the 2010 documentary, 2012: Time for Change, directed by Joao Amorim and produced by Mangusta Films. I founded the think tank, Center for Planetary Culture, which produced the Regenerative Society Wiki. I hosted the talk show Mindshift on GaiamTV. My essays and articles have been featured in The New York Times Magazine, Esquire, Rolling Stone, ArtForum, The New York Times Book Review, The Village Voice, Dazed & Confused, and many other publications.
Check out our upcoming course, Navigating Psychedelics
Learn about harm reduction practices, self-care, and ways to integration your experience
Download Sara Gael joins us on this week’s episode. Sara is the Director of Harm Reduction at the Zendo Project. We get into some great stuff including some of Zendo’s biggest wins, how Zendo works, how to discuss harm reduction with festival organizers, and how to manage difficult experiences that arise in the Zendo. Something interesting that we learned during this talk was how law enforcement at Burning Man has really been interested in learning more about Zendo and their services, and requested Zendo to help train their staff.
Sara also shares her experience and insights working on the MAPS Phase 2 MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD trials and how she got involved in psychedelic research. We also explore how transpersonal psychology can serve as an important framework for working with psychedelic experiences.
We hope you enjoy this episode. Be sure to leave us a comment below and share this episode!
The Zendo Project
The Zendo Project is sponsored by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Zendo provides harm reduction services to the community and to festivals. Zendo strives to:
Reduce the number of psychiatric hospitalizations and arrests.
Create an environment where volunteers can work alongside one another to improve their harm reduction skills and receive training and feedback.
Demonstrates that safe, productive psychedelic experiences are possible without the need for law enforcement-based prohibitionist policies.
Sara Gael, M.A., Director of Harm Reduction, Zendo Project
Sara received her Master’s degree in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology at Naropa University. She began working with MAPS in 2012, coordinating psychedelic harm reduction services at festivals and events worldwide with the Zendo Project. Sara was an Intern Therapist for the recently completed MAPS Phase 2 clinical trial of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD in Boulder, CO. She maintains a private practice as a psychotherapist specializing in trauma and non-ordinary states of consciousness. Sara believes that developing a comprehensive understanding of psychedelic medicines through research and education is essential for the health and well being of individuals, communities, and the planet.
Community is an important part of integration. One of the most difficult aspects of integration is returning to a society that doesn’t understand or support psychedelic exploration. In fact, re-entering society can feel like a stark contrast between the interconnected, transpersonal state of the psychedelic experience. Therefore, one of most important tools for successful integration is a supportive, understanding community. We encourage our Guests to connect with and build supportive communities around themselves when they return home from the event. We support them in seeking professional help if necessary.
It is the week of the 4th of July. That means the United States is celebrating the signing of the Declaration of Independence, breaking free from the British Empire, and becoming an independent nation. With the holiday underway, it seems like a great time to reflect on the concept of freedom (including cognitive liberty) and what it means to each and every one of us.
In honor of Independence Day and the Declaration of Independence, here is a quote by Terence McKenna:
In this episode, Joe and Kyle reflect on the concept of personal freedom, cognitive liberty, and the impact that the War on Drugs has on the American people. It seems to be the consensus that the War on Drugs is failing. The policy has huge negative consequences on people across the globe, and significantly marginalizes minority groups and people of color.
Cognitive Liberty
As psychedelic research continues to progress in the academic and scientific realm, many people are still subjected to arrest and imprisonment because of this failed policy. Kyle and Joe share their thoughts about the pursuit for cognitive liberty and personal freedom.
The unexamined life is not worth living – Socrates
Do you think that exploring one’s own consciousness, whether through plants or other drugs, be illegal? Why should a person have to “ask permission” to have an experience with their own body, mind, and spirit?
We are giving away a SPECIAL offer just for the 4th of July! Receive 10% off our Earl-Bird special with the coupon code “freedom” when you check out. You do not want to miss this offer!
Doing work with veterans and gaining their trust for therapeutic relationships.
Traditional approaches to ayahuasca.
First hand accounts of what the Peyote world is like.
Shifting away from the predominant Newtonian Cartesian paradigm after psychedelic use and understanding that we know very little about what is really happening here in the world.
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.
He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.
His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.
Interested in learning more about psychedelic self-care and integration? Check out and sign up for our new online course!
Download In this episode, Kyle talks with Leia Friedman, co-founder of the Boston Entheogenic Network (BEN) and also known as “The Psychedologist.” Kyle recently was invited to facilitate an “Introduction to Transpersonal Breathwork” workshop for BEN. Joe also was in town for the weekend and presented a talk about “Breathwork, Psychedelics, and Ecological Collapse.” It was a great psychedelic weekend in Massachusetts.
After the workshop, Kyle had the opportunity to sit down and talk with Leia about her interests in the psychedelic field, feminism and eco-feminism, and how she got involved with starting a psychedelic group in Boston. She provides some helpful tips and advice for creating/starting your own local group.
Tips for starting your own psychedelic group:
First, what is the point of the group?
What is the purpose or mission?
Learn about your local laws and the legal risks
Do not condone or facilitate illegal activity
Go slow
Find the others to help you out
Check in with yourself and the other members of the group
Protect your members
Start online to gain awareness and then start an in-person meet up
Sign up below to get your FREE download “How to Create Your Own Psychedelic Group”
We hope you enjoy this episode and let us know what you think!
Leia Friedman is a professor, clinician, writer and the cofounder of Boston Entheogenic Network. Her present focus is an amalgamation of psychology, ecology, and experiences of altered consciousness as tools for deeper self-understanding. She is also involved in local social and climate justice activism, alphabet soup, and body positivity.
We discuss our recent trip to MAPS‘s Psychedelic Science 2017. It was incredibly fun and we loved being able to connect with so many with this shared interest. Many attendees are actively working to progress the case of psychedelic substances.
This was the largest psychedelic conference ever in recorded history attended by over 3000 people from 42 countries. There were discussions around ayahuasca, peyote, DMT, salvia, MDMA and many other substances. Some of the most interesting discussions were around ibogaine treating people with addiction. Turns out there are far more things that can be treated with ibogaine than simply opiate addiction.
I was very excited to discuss drug testing and harm reduction with the people from DanceSafe. We were also able to check out some really interesting technology – lights and music – that triggered some of the most intense visuals of my life. Illuminated SF put that demonstration together. It is highly recommend.
The experience of Psychedelic Science 17 was so incredible and encouraging that I cannot wait to go to the next one. Being around the movement was truly humbling and gratifying. Connecting with people from as far as Brussels, Poland and Hong Kong gave extra context to how far and wide this movement is spreading and that there is real depth in the movement.
We hope you enjoy the episode. If you want to connect with us please feel free to reach out using the contact page. If you want to stay in touch with us please join our mailing list and we will send some interesting links to you on a semi regular basis.
Links
https://www.solarwolfenergy.com/
https://maps.org
MAPS made available a tremendous amount of the talks for free on youtube. You should spend some time digging through the talks for things you may find very interesting.
Download Peter is a psychedelic philosopher focusing on panpsychism, psychedelics, Whitehead, Nietzsche and some other heavy weights. We discuss Peter’s psychedelic philosophy and influences from psychedelic liberty cap mushrooms found in a field in England, his influence on the famous comic author Warren Ellis, his essay Neo-Nihilism, transhumanism and much more. We really look forward to having Peter on the show again in the future!
‘The terms morality, logic, religion, art, have each of them been claimed as exhausting the whole meaning of importance. Each of them denotes a subordinate species. But the genus stretches beyond any finite group of species.’ (MT)
‘Philosophy is an attempt to express the infinity of the universe in terms of the limitations of language.’ (Autobiog.)
‘The doctrines which best repay critical examination are those which for the longest period have remained unquestioned.’ (MT)
‘[I]n the development of intelligence there is a great principle which is often forgotten. In order to acquire learning, we must first shake ourselves free of it. We must grasp the topic in the rough, before we smooth it out and shape it.’ (MT)
Peter Sjöstedt-H is an Anglo-Scandinavian philosopher who specialises in the thought of Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and Whitehead within the fields of Philosophy of Mind and Metaphysics – especially with regard to panpsychism and altered states of sentience. Peter received a Bachelor’s degree in Philosophy and a Master’s degree in Continental Philosophy from the University of Warwick, where he was awarded a first-class distinction for his dissertation on Kant and Schelling in relation to ‘intellectual intuition’. He subsequently became a Philosophy Lecturer in London for six years but is now engaged in his PhD at Exeter University where he also teaches philosophy modules and writing skills. Peter is the author of Noumenautics and an inspiration behind the new inhuman philosopher Marvel Superhero, Karnak.
In the words of futurist, philosopher and pop star Alexander Bard: ‘One of our favourite contemporary philosophers, Peter Sjöstedt-H…think a psychedelic Nietzsche’.
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Psymposia’s MC and Host, Lex Pelger, joins us again on Psychedelics Today to talk about Psymposia’s upcoming Blue Dot Tour. Lex also talks about his graphic novel about cannabis, the endocannabinoid system, and the War on Weed.
Our goal is to hit blue cities in red states that serve as such pressure cookers of activism, education, and art. But also blue cities in blue states, red towns in red states, purple villages in green states, and anywhere we can find a host from Mexico to Canada.
Lex is Host of Psymposia. He’s also a drug writer and scientist based in Brooklyn.
His current project, Anandamide or: the Cannabinoid a graphic novel about cannabis (based on Moby Dick), illustrates the beauties of the endocannabinoid system (the Whale), the brutalities of the racist War on Weed (Ahab), and the staggering benefits of medical marijuana to ease the aging of our grandparents
He graduated from Boston University with a BS in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
“Through my lens, so many problems in this world are driven by people acting from a reactionary place of fear and pain instead of from a place of compassion or love.” – Natalie Ginsberg
Joe and Kyle spoke with Natalie Ginsberg, Policy and Advocacy Manager at Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Natalie provides us with a summary on facets of the current state of global drug policy. She also discusses the role of racism and privilege in the psychedelic community in America. The following is an excerpt from our interview.
Edited by: Alyssa Gursky
Natalie: This past year, the UN General Assembly met for the first time in 20 years to revisit international drug treaties. A special session was called on the world drug problem. There were a series of different meetings. Vienna hosts something called the, Commission on Narcotic Drugs, every year. First, there is a big gathering in Vienna where reformers, non-reformers, and people working both from civil society on drug policy come to meet with delegates from around the world and educate them.
They tried to move drug policy from a criminalization approach to a more public health and harm reduction kind of approach.That was also pretty inspiring, and it was definitely a bit frustrating in terms of progress.We would’ve liked the outcome document to reflect much more progressive drug policy stances, but they’re very influenced by countries like Russia and China, who are really not open to the harm reduction approaches at all.
Being there, you meet so many global representatives. For example, the so-called drug czar, but he doesn’t like that name. The National Drug Coordinator of Czech Republic, for example, is really supportive of psychedelic advocacy and was able to host a lot of more innovative, progressive events. The Colombian health minister gave a really powerful speech on the floor of the United Nations (UN), basically saying the drug war… using that Einstein quote, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.” It was really epic for the minister from Columbia to be saying that to the whole UN.
Overall, for me, what was so, so valuable was really this coming together of the international reform community. Now, I work super-closely with advocates from Afghanistan, Mexico, and Nigeria. We’re much more in the same loop of what’s going on and learning about how we’re doing work in different countries is important because the UN is a really slow body that is quite reactionary, and it’s really driven forward by individual countries’ progress. The more we can support individual countries moving forward, the better chance we have for them to kind of influence the UN later.
Joe: Are there any star countries that you noticed that are really doing stuff that might not be on the radar yet?
Natalie: Bolivia actually legalized coca leaves and has done some really important work around protecting cultural indigenous plant medicines, like promoting the traditional use of these substances.
As I mentioned, the Czech Republic is really, I’d say, the leader on all things psychedelic that are not traditional, indigenous use. I would also say that even though Portugal gets a lot of attention for decriminalizing drugs, they actually weren’t the first place to do that. The Czech Republic has been decriminalizing drugs longer than Portugal, as has Spain. Portugal received a great deal of attention because they did it in response to a big opiate crisis. There’s some incredible results to show how dramatically things have shifted, but other countries have kind of taken that stance for a while, so there isn’t as much of a shift. But, they do have really promising results from not having a crazy drug war.
Spain is also really cool because of their cannabis social clubs. I was lucky to spend a few weeks in Barcelona this fall. They have these incredible spaces that basically was like a mix between coffee shop, co-worker space, maybe a little bar worked in there — just like a community space where you can go and become a club member.
Also, keep an eye on Colombia. When Ismail and I, my colleague from the policy team, were at the UN, we spoke to the Colombian health minister about MDMA therapy. He said, “Yeah, that sounds really promising.” I’m optimistic about that. They’re kind of still in the process of reforming their drug policies, and though they haven’t made as dramatic of strides as the other countries, a lot of the ministers and people doing work in Colombia are a lot more conscious. They see all of the horrible impacts of the drug war on their country and want to improve it. I think they will continue to do this work and lead some reform in South America.
Then also of course Canada is leading the way in so many ways on the drug policy front. From legalizing cannabis to really strongly supporting harm-reduction measures in response to opiate crises. I think Canada is going to be the leader on drug policy reform, and probably on a lot of other policies as well.
Joe: What else is going on in your world? Are you projected a couple years out to be working on some other interesting projects, or what do you see happening?
Natalie: I can speak about something that’s really near to my heart. In context of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, we are working to develop a study that would be focused on racial trauma, or PTSD from racism. We are working on another focusing on PTSD in trans communities as well. I’m really interested in talking about how social injustice can manifest in an individual as PTSD. I think that’s going to be a really important conversation.
Anti-racist work within the psychedelic community is really important. A lot of people I know are these peace-loving, hippie types who have really beautiful ideals, but don’t necessarily know the details or the reality of certain situations. I’ve heard from so many amazing, well-intentioned people in this community, “I don’t see race. All people are the same.” I think the concept is beautiful and well-intentioned, but that’s also really ignoring the experience of people of color in this country.
Unfortunately, police officers do see race. Breaking that conversation open I think is immensely important. If we’re a community that really talks about healing and working in solidarity with other social justice movements, I think that is really essential. I have seen more and more progress on that front, but I just want to definitely flag that because I think we have a lot of room to improve in that space.
Joe: What does that look like to you? How could we heal a bit? I know the research itself is very white, really kind of bland, but in terms of diversity, how do we heal that? What do you see?
Natalie: Yes, the research is quite white, unfortunately. This study focusing on racial trauma, we’re working with Dr. Monica Williams in process, but she’s a leading researcher on PTSD from racism. Working with experts and therapists of color to do outreach to their own communities. We have to work with communities and not just go in and be like, “Why don’t you come into our space?” We have to be willing to meet people where they are and really listen, and hear what different communities need from us and how we can best work with them. I think really the best way, when you ask how can we heal, it’s really we as white, psychedelic enthusiasts need to do our own work We need to do our own reading and need to start asking questions. And not questions just of people of color, and asking them to do this emotional labor for us, but maybe other white people who are doing this work who might be able to help support this process.
It’s a really long, difficult process that requires a lot of self-reflection, which is why I think there’s so much potential in our psychedelic community.We’re a community so focused on being conscious and self-reflection. All of these things that are essential to understanding racial consciousness, and the impact of racism on white people. There’s a lot of hugely harmful impacts of racism in white people, the way that sexism deeply harms men in patriarchy. I think it’s really important that we are doing some of our own work. That is a difficult process but a healing one, The more conscious we are of things, I believe that is really a way to move towards healing.
Returning war veterans are incredibly traumatized and don’t have adequate support, but yet compared to someone living in a poor, black neighborhood in Atlanta … There was a study that returning war veterans had way lower rates of PTSD than people living in this community. These people are also underdiagnosed, and don’t have the resources that even… It’s just interesting context because certainly, we dramatically need to improve our support for veterans as well, but even just stepping back and seeing that there’s so many people suffering from PTSD who have no access, or no even language to understand what they’re going through.
Kyle: Do you have any last-minute advice for students or anyone that is interested in getting involved with policy work? Because now, maybe, with this fear of the new administration taking over, we don’t really know what the climate is going to look like.
Natalie: In this political climate, it’s more important than ever to do work also outside of the so-called direct political system. Advocacy even means talking to your family or friends, creating a cultural space to support this political work is the most important thing we can do. This ties back into the conversation about the whiteness and privilege of the psychedelic space. I totally understand that there are such a span of people who are able to speak openly about this in certain contexts. You can be at risk for losing your job, your children, and certainly people of color are far higher risk for being arrested for drugs or things like that. I think that’s a really powerful part of recognizing being conscious of your privilege in this community — if you feel safe enough to speak in certain communities and speak out, that it’s super-important to do that and use that privilege to move the conversation forward. There’s so many ways for people to get involved. MAPS alone has a million volunteer opportunities, or we’ll help you host a global psychedelic dinner if you want help inviting people in your community, and having things to talk about. I encourage people also to just think of whatever they’re most passionate about and do that, and see how psychedelics can intersect with that, and how they can speak in their space.
Check out the full audio interview with Natalie Ginsberg here.
Transcribed by: Rev.com
About Natalie Ginsberg
Natalie earned her Master’s in Social Work from Columbia University in 2014, and her Bachelor’s in History from Yale University in 2011. At Columbia, Natalie served as a Policy Fellow at the Drug Policy Alliance, where she helped legalize medical marijuana in her home state of New York, and worked to end New York’s racist marijuana arrests. Natalie has also worked as a court-mandated therapist for individuals arrested for prostitution and drug-related offenses, and as a middle school guidance counselor at an NYC public school. Natalie’s clinical work with trauma survivors spurred her interest in psychedelic-assisted therapy, which she believes can ease a wide variety of both mental and physical ailments by addressing the root cause of individuals’ difficulties, rather than their symptoms. Through her work at MAPS, Natalie advocates for research to provide evidence-based alternatives to both the war on drugs and the current mental health paradigm.
Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle chat with Ed Liu of the podcast, Psychedelic Milk. It has been great to connect with other folks that host podcasts, and are doing whatever they can to spread the message about psychedelics and the psychedelic movement. We really enjoyed talking with Ed and appreciated his honesty as well as the conversations he is bringing to the field.
PsychedelicMilk.com is an independent media collective that takes a deeper look into the world of psychedelics through interviews and discussions. Our mission is to bring more awareness and understanding to alternative medicine and different ways of thinking to our our audiences through young and exciting ways. Psychedelic Milk also aims to investigate old and new consciousness opening technologies to see what roles they can play in our modern world. We believe psychedelic technologies are not just limited to plant medicines, but can be accessed through meditation, movement, knowledge, and many more. If you like the podcast, leave us a review on iTunes! (will help us tremendously)
About Ed Liu
Ed Liu is a podcast host and a music producer – previously charted on the Beatport Top 100. He is currently the host of the Psychedelic Milk podcast, a long form conversational interview with interesting and influential guests from all over the world to discuss topics of consciousness, psychedelics, and new emerging technologies.
Kyle and Joe speak with, Paul Austin, psychedelic educator, founder of The Third Wave and Psychedelia. Paul is a super fun guy to talk to. He tours both in the US and internationally to speak about microdosing. Microdosing is becoming incredibly popular and seems to be making psychedelics more popular in the mainstream. Microdosing can help with creativity, therapy and many other things without any of the burden of a “full” dose.
What is the psychedelic Third Wave? Paul describes it as:
A new era of psychedelic use. It is an era of psychedelic use defined by practical, measured use for specific purposes. It is an era, not for ‘dropping-out’ of society, but for integrating psychedelics into the mainstream. It is an era, not to fear psychedelics for their possible negative repercussions, but to embrace psychedelics for their tremendous upside.
Some insight from DR. JAMES FADIMAN
“For some people, it is helpful to identify your goals. Your goals may be spiritual: to have direct experience with aspects of your tradition or another tradition, to transcend prior beliefs, even to transcend belief itself. You may hope to have what is called a “unity experience,” in which there is no separation between your identity and all else. Your goals may be social: to improve relationships with your spouse, children, siblings, parents, colleagues, friends, and spiritual and secular institutions. Your goals may be psychological: to find insight into neurotic patterns, phobias, or unresolved anger or grief.”
We get into some great psychedelic topics such as:
As an entrepreneur and avid psychedelic explorer, Paul believes in the power of rational dialogue and community engagement in stripping away the stigma around psychedelic use.
He understands the power of responsible psychedelic use in aiding psycho-spiritual development, and believes in sharing this message with others.
When not ruminating on his next psychedelic project, Paul enjoys traveling, reading, and spending time outside.
Download Joe and Kyle talk at length about the recently produced documentary titled “The Sunshine Makers” created by Cosmo Feilding-Mellen and starring both Nick Sand and Tim Scully.
Let us know what you think about this and if it was interesting to you at all. Please rent or purchase the documentary through our amazon link here to support Psychedelics Today.
It is the start of a New Year. People are saying 2016 has been pretty horrible, but 2016 has been pretty decent in regards to psychedelic science and research. We are hoping that 2017 will be a fruitful year as well.
In this episode Kyle and Joe speak about the recent interview they recorded with Dimitri Muganis. There were some relatively important points in the interview that needed further discussion and expansion and in this podcast we unravel some of the material. There is plenty more to unpack there.
Some of what is discussed in this episode includes.
Race
Class
Research and Treatment
When should one take priority
Democratization of the medicines
Privilege
Paying for people to participate in research
The white upper middle class bias in the research
The bias in research towards veterans
Overall there are loads of things that we discussed, and in short the real message here is that we all need to keep moving forward. There is plenty of room for growth in the field for all of us to move our agendas forward.
With endless amounts of research left to be run, we can still treat people. I’m not sure we are going to see Psychedelic medicines be used in the next 1-2 years in major hospitals outside of research, but we are going to see it in the next decade for sure.
Neal M. Goldsmith, Ph.D. is a psychotherapist specializing in psychospiritual development. He is a popular speaker on drug policy reform, spiritual maturation, and the emergence of an integral society (a six-minute clip of his talk on the “Fusion of Spirit and Science” may be found at: http://vimeo.com/7517009) and an author, most recently of Psychedelic Healing: The Promise of Entheogens for Psychotherapy and Spiritual Development.
Dr. Goldsmith has curated dozens of successful conferences and cross-disciplinary “meetings of minds” for corporations as well as the psychedelic community, including the Horizons and MAPS Psychedelic Science conferences. He is a founder of several discussion salons on integral philosophy, governance, media, postmodern science, healing, and the future of society.
Brian Normand is Co-Founder of Psymposia, greenthumb, and occasional
trouble maker, focused on creating spaces and projects to teach people about plants and drugs.
He graduated from the University of Massachusetts Amherst with a BS in Plant, Soil, Insect Science, & Sustainable Horticulture, Magna Cum Laude. He lives in Baltimore.
In this interview, we discuss a lot, but here are some highlights.
Brian’s introduction to psychedelic art.
Music and plants informing Brian’s interest.
The genesis of Psymposia at a more academic conference.
The stuffiness of the academic world and it not being suitable for everyone.
Yet how important the academic work in top schools is.
Rick Doblin, David Nichols, Mithoffers and Grifiths and Dennis McKenna are individuals who prove how important it is to have top academic credentials.
Kyle and Joe speak with Djinn Thompson about their podcast Psychedelic Parenting and the future of the Psychedelic Parenting organization. Other topics that were covered include:
Talking about psychedelics and substances with teenagers and children
The Aftercare Project and psychedelic integration, and holding space.
How to pass on the values of the psychedelic experience through spirituality, conscious living, social justice, free expression, and radical honesty.
Djinn has over 20 years’ experience with psychedelic plants and has been trip sitting in a professional capacity for over a decade, having served as a facilitator for legal psilocybin retreats in Jamaica and other venues. Djinn specializes in working with victims of childhood trauma, those with treatment-resistant depression, and issues related to LGBTQ identities. Djinn came out as a nonbinary trans person in 2017. They are currently pursuing a Masters Degree in Social Work. Djinn was previously the host of the Psychedelic Parenting Podcast under their birth name, and has been a speaker on psychedelics and family life at multiple conferences, both in the USA and abroad.
Hope everyone enjoys this episode. We really enjoyed talking to Djinn and feel blessed by their wealth of knowledge and wisdom. Let us know what you think!
Download Kyle and Joe speak with Raven Renee Ray about the Aftercare project. Here is a short description of the project from it’s facebook site.
The Aftercare Project is dedicated to the psychological and spiritual well-being of people reintegrating after challenging psychedelic experiences.
The conversation is fun and wide ranging. We hope it is helpful and informative to academics, therapists, counselors and psychiatrists who are interacting with people coming back from difficult experiences.
Here is a slightly longer description of the ACP.
Given the fact that ayahuasca has shown promise in research studies, we feel we not only have the humane duty to help those in need, but also the responsibility to ensure the reputation of ayahuasca and her traditional stewards among decision-makers in our own culture. This will allow us to continue holding space for research to continue, while protecting traditional practices. Because of the colossal challenges inherent in navigating multicultural spaces and the lack of understanding outside of the anthropological community regarding conflicting paradigms of urban capitalism and jungle reciprocity, we must do our best as North Americans to prepare those in our own communities who are called to this experience prior to their trip. This preparation will include full, informed consent, education on safety, cultural expectations and differences, and what to do in the case that further care is required upon return.
Raven is also fundraising for the Aftercare Project. You can find a page for the fundraising effort here.
Download
Brett Greene is the co founder of Psymposia. Kyle and I talk to him about how Psymposia is different from events currently being put on and important for the psychedelic world. Story telling of people in the psychedelic world is just as important as doctors and academics giving presentations. Psymposia is having their busiest year yet. Check them out here to keep track of their upcoming events.
https://vimeo.com/143491234
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