In this episode, Kyle interviews Ted Riskin, LCSW: psychotherapist running group KAP sessions and certified in Core Energetics, Internal Family Systems, and Holotropic Breathwork, which he has taught in various forms for 26 years.

He discusses group ketamine-assisted psychotherapy: how he runs sessions, why being welcomed and loved in a group seems to be a bigger factor than the psychedelic, how he came to combine IFS with ketamine or breathwork, and why exploring the parts work of IFS seems to work so well with non-ordinary states of consciousness. And he talks about two complications we often don’t think about with Group KAP: the challenge of getting our different parts to all truly consent to an experience (and how do you get them to?), and how very safe spaces can inspire oversharing, and sadly, subsequent shame.

He discusses knowing when to use a non-directive approach vs. intervening; how people often learn more about themselves as a sitter; using core energetics before experiences to move energy we’re often afraid to work with; the importance of embracing anger (when necessary); memory reconsolidation and bringing exiles from the past into the present; the concept of double bookkeeping; and finding the magic in realizing that sometimes, just being there (“being a useless person” as he says) is all that’s needed.

Notable Quotes

“I think people underestimate the power of breathwork. These days, a lot more, people are coming to do breathwork for the first time and they have done psychedelics. In the past, that was more the minority, now it’s probably the majority. And I’ll tell them, ‘The difference is, you’re used to riding a motorcycle, and now this is a bicycle. You’ve got to pedal this one.’ And yet they’re shocked sometimes how deep just the breathing takes them.”

“We’re realizing that there’s so many things happening that it’s impossible to tease it apart. We don’t know how much the ketamine increases self-leadership, we don’t know if it’s the IFS work that people are doing, but I suspect it’s a combination – that the ketamine seems to really lubricate the IFS work and invites protectors to relax so that people can do deeper, and the rearrangement of the techniques of IFS happens much more deeply.”

“We also think the group experience is as powerful as anything else that’s happening, especially when people are anxious or depressed. Often, they have assumptions about how they will be welcomed by other people, and to be in a loving group where people are vulnerable and find out, ‘I can say anything. I can talk about my shame and fears and people are just with me and accepting’: I sometimes wonder if that’s doing more than the medicine, even.”

Links

Tedriskin.com

Groupkap.com

IFSessentials.com

YouTube: Overview of our Group Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy program