In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, the news is once again skipped, with Michelle and Kyle instead speaking with Elan Hagens and Rebecca Martinez, co-founders of Portland, Oregon-based Fruiting Bodies Collective: an advocacy group, podcast, and multimedia platform with a focus on uplifting marginalized communities and shrinking the gap between industry insiders and the rest of us. Martinez is a regular contributor to the Psychedelics Today blog and was the Event and Volunteer Coordinator for Oregon’s groundbreaking Measure 109 campaign, and both serve on its Health Equity subcommittee.
They talk about their paths to creating their group and why education, access, and proper representation for everyone in the community is so important toward their next project: creating a facilitator training program that works for everyone, and is infused with justice and equity throughout.
They break down what exactly Measure 109 means to the people of Oregon, the misconceptions about decriminalization and confusion about how to access psilocybin therapy, the idea of creating different therapeutic paths for people based on their different circumstances, what risk really means to so many of us (and especially to people of color), and the problem American society has with trusting a Doctorate over thousands of years of Indigenous wisdom.
Notable Quotes
“When we’re doing this kind of work, we need to come back and realize that this stuff came from soil; it’s not just a pill. It can be a pill, and everybody can have medicine in their own way, but we need to acknowledge all these variables within it, and especially, especially Indigenous healing and Indigenous medicine- giving reverence to that and acknowledging that every chance it comes up in your mind, talk about it. Don’t be like, ‘Oh, we’ve talked about it too much.’ Every time it comes in your mind, let’s talk about it more.” -Elan “There is a privilege in being able to go to school and having a Doctorate. There is a privilege in having a parent who can support you in elementary school and have enough money to get you into college. But that does not mean that there are people who have not had all these degrees and stuff [who] do not have the same type of knowledge. So especially with psychedelic medicine, I’m always going to come back to the Indigenous wisdom- there are no Doctorates in there. There’s no titles in there.” -Elan
“We want to come out with the first batch of leaders and trainers to say, ‘Hey, here are some other options’ straight out of the gate so that the tone that has been set is one of equity and access. And it creates healthy peer pressure so that folks are like, ‘Wait, do you have a BIPOC scholarship fund? Do you have an Indigenous reciprocity fund? If not, why not? You all are talking about scale, which means you’re talking about big numbers, and we see these little groups that are putting x% of their profits, so why aren’t you guys?’” -Rebecca “We have this really sick thing here which is like this tree that is rotting from the roots and we’re clipping at the leaves and trying to make it better, but what we really need to do is compost it and grow something else here. But what is that vision? I think even if you look globally, we have so few examples of what a safe supply market would look like, and that’s so far down the road of so many conversations, culturally, that need to be had, and so many assumptions and ideas and stigmas that need to be peeled back layer by layer, that to say something to an average American voter like, ‘Imagine if we had a place where people who do use drugs could get a safe supply and know that they’re not going to overdose,’ you’re speaking a different language at that point.” -Rebecca
Elan Hagens and Rebecca Martinez are the co-founders of Fruiting Bodies Collective, a mission-based podcast, advocacy group, and multimedia platform in Portland, Oregon, serving the growing psychedelic healing community. They exist to bridge the gap between industry insiders and the eager-to-learn general public, with a focus on uplifting marginalized communities toward liberation for all. Their current project is the creation of a collectively owned, justice-centered psychedelic peer support training program for Oregon’s legal psilocybin facilitators.
Taking a deep look at what Measure 110 did and didn’t do in Oregon, and speaking with one of the measure’s Chief Petitioners, Anthony Johnson, on the future of drug policy reform.
“There’s never been a better time to be a drug policy reform activist,” says Anthony Johnson, a Chief Petitioner of Oregon’s Measure 110. Amid a sea of despairing headlines, it’s refreshing to hear a streak of optimism, especially from someone who has been working in public service for over twenty years.
Measure 110, also known as DATRA (the Drug Abuse Treatment and Recovery Act), received 58% of the Oregon vote in November. Similar to Portugal’s drug approach, the measure decriminalized the personal use and possession of all drugs. In addition, it allocated cannabis tax dollars and prison savings to pay for expanded drug treatment and other vital services. This progressive policy was passed alongside Measure 109, which created a legal statewide psilocybin therapy program.
Measure 110 was implemented statewide on February 1st, 2021. Addiction recovery centers and services must be available in each of the state’s 16 coordinated care organization regions by October, 2021.
What Measure 110 Does:
Removes criminal penalties for low-level possession of drugs. The amounts are as follows:
Under 1 gram of heroin
Under 1 gram, or fewer than 5 pills, of MDMA
Under 2 grams of methamphetamine
Under 2 grams of cocaine
Under 40 units of LSD
Under 12 grams of psilocybin
Under 40 units of methadone
Fewer than 40 pills of oxycodone
Allocates $100 million in state funding to expand behavioral health, addiction, recovery, housing, peer support and harm reduction services and interventions.
Establishes an Oversight and Accountability Council, made up of people who have direct lived experience with addiction, along with service delivery experts.
Reduces the criminal penalty for larger amounts of drugs from a felony to a misdemeanor.
Replaces the misdemeanor charge for small possession (which held a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison and a $6,250 fine) with a fine of $100. This fine can be waived by completing a health screening within 45 day of receiving a citation.
Nearly eliminates racial disparities in drug arrests, according to an independent analysis.
The Measure Does Not:
Legalize or create a regulated supply of drugs.
Change the criminal code related to drug manufacture and sale.
Change the criminal code for other crimes which may be associated with drug use, such as theft and driving under the influence.
I spoke with John Lucy, a Portland-based attorney focused on cannabis and business law, to clarify. He explained that Measure 110 covers all controlled substances, Schedule I through IV. The defined amounts in the bill language were provided for the more well-known drugs. So in short, Measure 110 really does make simple small possession a Class E violation for most drugs (with some A misdemeanors for larger quantities of the drugs listed that don’t meet commercial drug offense guidelines).
To be more specific, substances such as GHB (Schedule I and III), 2C-B (Schedule I) and Fentanyl (Schedule II) are now all class E violations, subject to the new $100 citation.
Why Measure 110 Matters for Racial Justice
The Oregon Criminal Justice Commission (OCJC) is an independent government body which is responsible for research, policy development and planning. In 2020, the Secretary of State released a Racial and Ethnic Impact Report, which explored the potential impacts of Measure 110. The findings make it easier to understand why Oregonians voted overwhelmingly in favor of this measure.
According to analysts, Measure 110 is slated to:
Prevent 8,000 arrests.
Reduce drug convictions of Black and Indigenous Oregonians by a whopping 94%.
Save between $12 million to $48.6 million from ending arrests, jailings, and convictions.
Also noteworthy are the more systemic solutions that could come from this measure. According to the OCJC’s report:
“This drop in convictions will result in fewer collateral consequences stemming from criminal justice system involvement, which include difficulties in finding employment, loss of access to student loans for education, difficulties in obtaining housing, restrictions on professional licensing, and others,” the report says, adding: “Other disparities can exist at different stages of the criminal justice process, including inequities in police stops, jail bookings, bail, pretrial detention, prosecutorial decisions, and others.”
Q & A with Anthony Johnson on Current and Future Drug Policy Reform
The three chief petitioners of Oregon’s Measure 110. From left to right: Haven Wheelock, Janie Marsh Gullickson, and Anthony Johnson.
I spoke with Chief Petitioner of Measure 110, Anthony Johnson, about the treatment-not-jails approach and where he hopes the drug policy reform movement will go next.
Rebecca Martinez: It’s a little late, but congratulations on the passage of 110. What a huge accomplishment!
Anthony Johnson: It’s a step in the right direction. Oregon took a big sledgehammer to the failed drug war. But I would say there is still more work to be done around the criminal justice element, making sure that harm reduction, treatment, and recovery programs are fully funded. And there’s still more work to be done expunging past criminal offenses that people have suffered from.
RM: Do you foresee new organizations being formed under this measure, or will the funding go to expand existing ones?
AJ: Right off the bat, at least with the initial funds, it will go to groups like Central City Concern and Bridges to Change that set up sober housing living situations and want to expand their programs so they can help people find places to live, get job training and experience, and be able to move on with their lives. Programs like that can expand. There could be rural organizations that understand there are places in Oregon where people have to travel hours to receive drug treatment. Groups could get funding for mobile units and meet people where they are. And then we have organizations like Outside In, who may want to expand the ability to provide NarCan, or fentanyl-testing supplies so that lives can be saved.
So in the short term, it will be organizations that are already up and running, doing good work and have experience applying for these types of funding sources. Over time, I could see new organizations established based upon lessons learned and the needs of the community.
Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists starts up again on May 20th. Reserve your seat today.
RM: When it comes to drug testing [as in checking for purity, not to be confused with urine drug testing], is this something we currently have in some form, and if not, is it legal and allowed under this new program?
AJ: Right now, organizations can get funding to expand programs to test drug supplies. There are organizations working today in Oregon that provide test strips so people can test their own drugs and make sure they are not fentanyl. I’m unaware that this conflicts with federal law if a group is just supplying testing equipment. It’s a little different than say, a safe consumption site where there is a violation of federal law happening on site. It’s more like, “Here’s your kit,” and you’re on your way.
When we talk about the interplay and all these issues of impact, I want to highlight one point, and I believe we did this effectively during the campaign. I hope this can reverberate all throughout Oregon: When people talk about drug policy changes, ultimately it is not about the drugs. It is about the people. Our loved ones. No matter where you live, who you are, you have family members using drugs, most likely illegal drugs, but definitely legal drugs, be it alcohol, tobacco, or prescription drugs.
Knowing the truth about these drugs, treating them without stigma so that when people who do have an issue, they’re willing to come forward and there are resources available to them. Ultimately, what do you want for yourself or a loved one? How do you want to be treated? Do you want them arrested, put in jail, fired, given a scarlet letter “F” labeling them a felon for the rest of their lives so they can’t get certain housing opportunities? Or do you want them treated with dignity and provided resources if they need help. Remember that the majority of drug users actually don’t need help and can lead productive lives.
When mainstream media stories are written, headlines are going to be as inflammatory as possible. The photo’s gotta be needles and lines, razor blades, if they can they throw some guns in the picture too, but that’s not a realistic representation of life in America. As we move forward, we want to be compassionate, empathetic, end the stigma, and treat people how we want to be treated.
When people talk about drug policy changes, ultimately it is not about the drugs. It is about the people.
RM: I have two immediate family members who have been incarcerated. Is there a pathway to ending sentences for people who are serving time for substances that are no longer illegal? Or, is it: “What’s done is done”?
AJ: Something could be done about it, for sure. And we were able to accomplish some of this work with cannabis. We could have something passed that provides a study saying, “Who is in prison for these substances that are now decriminalized?” Or, “The offense was reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor and their prison time should be reduced and they should be let out.”
For whatever reason, there’s often some reluctance around that. I don’t quite understand it. The way I see it, when we legalize cannabis or drug possession, voters and society are recognizing that the state has made a mistake. Cannabis shouldn’t have been illegal in the first place. These small amounts of drugs should not be a felony or a misdemeanor. So, why are people in prison and why do people have criminal records when the state made the mistake?
It will take further legislative changes to accomplish this. We still have such a huge stigma around drugs. Cannabis has taken 25 years. It may be due to coronavirus and other concerns, but really there’s been no movement on further decriminalizing drug possession yet.
RM: What do you want to see moving forward?
AJ: What I want to see, what I’m working for and will continue advocating for, is automatically expunging old convictions. Automatically releasing people from prison. Following Measure 91 [Oregon’s Legal Marijuana initiative, on which Anthony was also Chief Petitioner], one of the most proud moments of my activist career was reading an article on OPB.org in which a man said he cried tears of joy because his cannabis delivery conviction could finally be expunged from his record, after following him for 30 years of his life.
Now, six years later, I am still proud of that, but I am struck that we didn’t go far enough. He was in a position to hire an attorney, pay the court fees, pay for the filing. [But] expunging your criminal record should not depend on your ability to hire an attorney. The law is the law. It should just be off everybody’s record. It should not be based on how much money you have or whether you know how to jump through legal hoops.
RM: Have you heard interest from people in other states who want to create models designed after 110? Given what you know now, what would be the dream model that you believe could be pushed through in more progressive states?
AJ: I have been in touch with people interested in enacting similar policies, and even city or countywide changes where statewide is not feasible. The cannabis movement did the same thing with local efforts. I definitely support anything that moves the issue forward. I became an activist over 20 years ago and I definitely see a key change in where we are and we are definitely going to move forward in other states. My dream model would be largely based in Oregon.
Now, the possession limits of what you decriminalize should be examined and should be realistic around peoples’ usage. One of the critiques I heard a lot from addiction doctors was that the possession limits we decriminalized in Measure 110 were, really, too low for a lot of users.
Even potentially, so long as someone is not selling, [general possession] could be decriminalized. Automatic expungements of past offenses and early prison release, and I think there should be funds allocated for treatment, harm reduction and recovery for those who need it.
This should be looked at as an extension of our healthcare needs. States should also be looking into studies into the medicinal benefits of various psychedelics, be it psilocybin mushrooms or MDMA. Slowly but surely, we are getting research moving forward at the federal level, but it is really up to the states to move these things forward.
In the future, something like 109 and 110 could be combined.
Explore the shadow side of psychedelics in this learn-at-your-own-pace course.
AJ: I support anything that moves the issue forward and educates people. My one caveat [about Decrim Nature and the Plant Medicine Healing Alliance] is I don’t want anybody to possess larger amounts of these drugs [in Oregon] than what Measure 110 allows, believing they are okay under state law because of a city resolution. A city cannot make something legal that the state has made illegal.
This is a problem with not having a city court, and this is something I look at when we are planning future drug policy reform measures. Cities that have their own city court, such as Columbia, Missouri where I went to undergrad and law school, can pass a measure and force the city prosecutor and police to keep that case within city courts and not send it to county or state [court], or refer it to the feds. So in these places, you can actually change the law [at the city level].
The city can’t make, say 28 grams of psilocybin mushrooms legal if the state says 12. It could be de facto legal, if the district attorney chose not to prosecute people, but DA’s change and it may not always be that way. [It’s then up to] local police discretion… it could be “lowest law enforcement priority,” but they could still arrest you.
RM: If it is on the discretion of the police, is it worth putting resources into these city-based resolutions? The last thing any of us wants is blood on our hands or anyone having a brush with the law because they thought they had legal protection when they didn’t.
It is imperative for all advocates to do what they can to be open. Lowest law enforcement priority measures are symbolic measures. If you are not actually changing the law, people can still be arrested and convicted. There could still be a lot of good out of that, but we need education that helps people realize this doesn’t actually change the criminal code. It’s up to advocates to make sure people know the truth of the matter. We don’t want to do harm. That said, if anything is moving the issue forward, I tend to support it. My focus is on changing the law, but I support anything that’s chipping away at the drug war. We should be honest about the pros and cons.
We want to let science, truth, and common sense guide us. We need to be truthful about what a lowest law enforcement priority measure does.
Expunging your criminal record should not depend on your ability to hire an attorney. The law is the law. It should just be off everybody’s record.
RM: What would you say to those who are pro-psychedelics who are new to the idea of broader drug policy reform?
This is something I’ve battled within cannabis legalization, which I’ve been involved in for over 20 years. Early on, and still to this day, there was cannabis exceptionalism. People had the attitude of, “Don’t arrest us [cannabis users]. Arrest these other people who use heroin, or meth, or these other drugs.” And now we’re seeing the same thing with psychedelics.
In the end, I believe people need to do their best to be empathetic to the situations people are born into, how they’re raised, the traumas they go through, and the drugs that are used. If you were born in a different city, state, whatever… you may have used different drugs than what you use today.
When I first told people in cannabis activism that I was working on 110, they were like, “You’re not going to decriminalize meth, right?”
Bottom line is: Arresting and convicting people, whatever the drug is… it’s counterproductive. Throwing someone in jail and taking away their education, housing and job opportunities is not good for them or society. We have to set aside our feelings about drugs because we believe some substances are better than others and that [certain] people should be treated better than others. We all have circumstances and hardships. No matter the drug of choice, arresting, criminalizing and stigmatizing them is a counterproductive policy.
We always need to come back to that. We need to appeal to people’s compassion and empathy. We cannot arrest and jail our way out of people using drugs.
RM: You make an important point. You’re touching on the question of: What does punishment do to us? Does it move us closer or further from the society we want to have?
We have to change the conversation. Imagine the headlines you’d see if other drugs caused the consequences we see with alcohol. Car accidents, death, abuse, other accidents, all these bad decisions people make… if that was another drug, just imagine the headlines, every day. People committing crimes, getting in wrecks with alcohol in our systems. But for better or worse, it is accepted in our society.
But if someone came to you and said they used alcohol and thought they needed help, that is [also] totally acceptable in society. And it should be. That’s where we want to get with all drugs. No matter the substance someone uses. If people seek help, they should get the help they need. Ultimately, we need to end the stigma. It’s difficult when even people within drug policy reform have their own stigmas around certain drugs. I’m a different advocate in 2021 than I was in 2000. Everyone has their own journey, but I definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel.
We got a strong majority of the vote [in Oregon]. Drug decriminalization got a higher percentage of the votes than Jeff Merkeley, who is a very popular senator! This is more popular than we think. We’ve got to thank Dr. Carl Hart, who is braver than most, for paving the way.
I believe in ten years, in this discussion around decriminalization, stigma and use, we’re going to be in a much better place than we are now. It’s not just electoral victories, it’s conversations we have publicly like this one, conversations with our friends and family, we can just chip away at it.
I’m actually very hopeful. Drug policy reform is two steps forward, one step back. But as scary and maddening and the world can be, I’ve never been more optimistic about what we can do. I’m proud that Oregon’s been playing our part and other states are following suit.
I believe in our lifetime we are going to end the drug war.
Rebecca Martinez is a Portland, Oregon-based writer, parent and community organizer. She is a co-founder of the Fruiting Bodies Collective, an advocacy group, podcast and multimedia platform exploring the intersections between healing justice and the psychedelics movement.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Michelle is back, Joe is in Phoenix, news is covered, and rants are made.
They first cover Maine’s recent proposal to legalize psilocybin therapy, and how interesting it is that a diagnosis wouldn’t be needed, but a “licensed psilocybin service facilitator” would: Is this a move towards liberation or far away from it? They then discuss the excellent results finally coming out of MAPS’ Phase 3 Trial for MDMA-Assisted Therapy, which leads to a huge sidebar about the efficacy of therapy, what a diagnosis can mean, how we define “sick” and “healthy,” and how we trust “evidence-based” studies and the DSM when maybe we shouldn’t so much.
They then talk about a CEO of a $2 billion startup getting fired for using LSD at work in a microdosing experiment, the FDA proposing a ban on menthol-flavored cigarettes and flavored cigars (which Michelle refers to as what a lot of us know them as, “blunt wraps”), and the list that sparked a lot of controversy in the community, Psychedelic Invest’s “100 Most Influential People in Psychedelics” list, which, despite Joe’s inclusion at #85 (Yay Joe! Sorry Kyle!), Michelle did not entirely agree with.
Notable Quotes
“I understand that maybe totally regulating and legalizing psilocybin for sale without the facilitator component is a little radical for the mainstream to handle, but …I do hope that this is a first step toward that. Maybe we can show how safe and gentle psilocybin can be, and that the facilitator aspect should be a choice among people and not a necessity.” -Michelle
“You don’t need a clinical diagnosis to know you have shit to work on.” -Joe “Talking about diagnosis and the medicalization of therapy, I think it’s this double-edged sword where some people really find relief in having a diagnosis, and go, ‘oh, it gives me some sort of language that this is what’s going on with me and I have a path forward to treat it,’ but that also limits people from wanting to seek out therapy.” -Kyle “The establishment wants us to think that they’re keeping us safe so that they can continue to justify their existence. That’s one of my reads. I understand how that’s pretty cynical, but it’s kind of the way it’s been: ‘Oh, you’re smoking cannabis? We’re going to put you in jail and take your kids away, because it’s what’s best.’ That sounds like a nightmare, first off. And then secondly, where’s your data? Where’s your data that prohibition has ever worked? Ever, ever, ever?” -Joe
Rick Doblin and Bia Labate debated Jeffery Lieberman and Keven Sabet on whether or not psychedelics should be legalized, and the results may surprise you.
Last week, we received an invite to attend an early screening of the newest debate in Intelligence Squared US’s online debate series: “Should Society Legalize Psychedelics?” Being immersed in the world of Psychedelics Today, it seems like we’re constantly involved in various similar conversations around legalization, decriminalization, benefits and dangers, and the less-discussed idea of drug exceptionalism. So while I was curious to see how a question like this would be handled by a more mainstream outlet, I also wondered if they’d get it right. When I saw who would be involved, I knew this would be worth watching.
Arguing for the motion to legalize psychedelics were Rick Doblin, Founder & Executive Director of MAPS, as you likely know if you’re on this site, and Bia Labate, anthropologist, drug policy expert, and executive director of Chacruna. Against the motion were Jeffrey Lieberman, former President of the American Psychiatric Association and Chair of Columbia University’s Department of Psychiatry, and Keven Sabet, three-time White House drug policy advisor, president and CEO of Smart Approaches to Marijuana, and author of Smokescreen: What the Marijuana Industry Doesn’t Want You to Know. What instantly caught my eye was psychedelic legend Rick Doblin going against a three-time White House drug policy advisor (i.e. “The Man”), and I wanted to see exactly how Doblin would choose to wipe the floor with him. But this was a debate, and debates don’t care solely about facts, which to me, is exactly what makes them so interesting.
After a brief and somewhat cringeworthy performance by “psychedelic comedian” Sarah Rose Siskind (which felt very odd to me—if we’re taking this seriously, why are we starting it out with bad jokes about drugs?), moderator John Donvan came on and asked us all to cast a vote before the debate started. We’d be casting another one after the debate, and the winner would be declared by calculating which side’s numbers increased more, or really, which side won over more of the undecided voters.
I personally feel that this is a very nuanced topic that probably can’t be answered with a simple yes or no, but decided to vote “yes” anyway.
The debate started and right away, I noticed a classic juxtaposition between Doblin and the Against Legalization team: Lieberman and Sabet wore black sportcoats and white collared shirts with crisp, stylized hair, while Doblin looked to be wearing a Hawaiian shirt, hair as out-of-control as always. Lieberman looked to be sitting in a professional office with hundreds of journals and important books proudly staged behind him, while Doblin looked like someone dug a chair out of the piles of papers in his office and placed him on it shortly after waking him up. The For Legalization team argued passionately, with a more freestyle tone drawing from personal stories, while the Against Legalization team spoke more slowly and seemed to have more prepared statements (Lieberman seemed to be reading off a script several times).
Screen shot of Rick Doblin of the “For Legalization” team at the Intelligence Squared debate.
The opening round consisted of each participant getting a few minutes to make as many points as they wanted. Doblin started out by listing what he believed his opponents would agree with him on, and introduced the idea of “licensed legalization,” where the ability to use drugs legally would be handled the way a driver’s license allows you to drive a car (and would therefore be taken away with abuse or misuse). Labate focused on the prevalence of drug use throughout all of history, the racism and failure of the drug war, and how “the sky didn’t fall” when other countries have legalized drugs.
From the Against Legalization team, Lieberman made it clear that while he has plenty of experience with psychedelics and absolutely sees a benefit, they should be decriminalized only and studied for therapeutic use. He also called out MAPS’s mission statement, saying that their effort to develop cannabis into prescription medicines is a “ruse” to get around prohibition, and posited the idea that the gateways to creativity and spirituality people experience were maybe just the drugs fooling them. Sabet performed pretty strongly here, saying that the historical use Labate talked about couldn’t be further from what would happen if the US legalized psychedelics, which he imagines as stereotypically US as possible, with Super Bowl-level mass commercialization, major lobbyists promoting their agendas, and the rich getting richer off of an addiction-for-profit model. He also said that opioids and alcohol kill more people than all illegal drugs combined, partly because they’re legal and therefore used more.
Round two was more of an open discussion with Donvan moderating. Some good points were made by the For Legalization team: decriminalization means impure drugs; classic psychedelics are not addictive; there actually is a lot of ceremonial use already in the US; commercialization doesn’t mean a psychedelic boogeyman is going to create addictive psychedelics; and decriminalization is not freedom and still comes with fines.
Meanwhile, the Against Legalization team didn’t seem to grasp why decriminalization wasn’t enough, but made some great points about how legalization doesn’t always mean purer and better (look at tobacco and cigarettes), and if we haven’t gotten this stuff right in all this time, why would we suddenly get it right when it comes to the legalization of psychedelics? Much time was spent on the need for scientific proof over tons of anecdotal stories. The open discussion showed some heat, and also exposed some debater flaws, like Lieberman rambling to the point of me entirely missing his point and Labate not realizing when her time was up and talking over everyone several times.
Screen shot of all the debaters and moderator from the Intelligence Square debate, “Should Society Legalize Psychedelics?”
Round three went back to each participant making closing statements for two minutes. Doblin spoke passionately about how much he and his wife have benefited from regular MDMA use, and said opponents shouldn’t let the fear of overcommercialization from “Big Psychedelic” spoil something so many could benefit from. Labate talked about how the US is the “land of freedoms” (which I laughed out loud at), and we’re going to look back on this time in shame, saying that a lot of what had been said against psychedelics was based on fear, a false narrative, and science’s attempt to control everything. Lieberman said that this would be a very dangerous social experiment, and then spent an odd amount of time talking about Prometheus and Frankenstein.
Sabet, on the other hand, really killed it here, spending a good chunk of his allotted time reading a quote from Robert Corry (one of the writers of Amendment 64 on Colorado’s 2012 statewide ballot that permitted recreational sales of cannabis), who fully regrets what he has done after seeing the massive commercialization of the industry. He ended by echoing his main point again: “It’s one thing to advocate for decriminalization, ending the war on drugs. It’s another thing to advocate for the commercialization and normalization,” saying that this would create an industry that cared only about profits, to the detriment of everyone’s health and safety.
The pre-recorded debate ended, and those of us who were able to attend the sneak preview were then sent to a live check-in with all the participants. Here, huge points that were missed in the debate were finally made. Doblin asked Sabet if he’s so against big corporations getting rich off drugs, does that mean he’s OK with cartels getting rich instead?
Labate pointed out that the time people were the most reckless with alcohol was during prohibition. Lieberman hurt himself by making it clear that he felt medical use and recreational use have to be completely separate, and the same drug couldn’t be used for both. Sabet made his same points again, but hurt my view of him a bit by making sure to have the cover of his book prominently displayed twice in his background (I’ve never been a fan of shameless plugs).
My favorite parts of the debate were in this live session. The first was when Founder and Chairman of Intelligence Squared US, Robert Rosenkranz, joined in and made Doblin’s point about money even stronger: If something is bought, that means someone is selling it, so why does the amount of profit and who it’s going to matter so much to Sabet? It can go to corporations and be regulated, or go to criminals and stay unregulated. Which is better?
Labate also shut down Lieberman in extraordinary fashion. Lieberman had already established himself as being extremely focused on science, studies, and needing proof for everything, but also had a really odd moment where he was certain he had more psychedelic experiences under his belt than Doblin. I cringed at this, thinking, “Really? You’re arguing for keeping psychedelics illegal and talking about their dangers while bragging about breaking the law to enjoy them?” So I was filled with joy when he said that he had had wonderful experiences on psychedelics, and Labate immediately hit him with: “But there’s no proof that your experience was wonderful. There’s no peer-reviewed study. How do you know it was wonderful?” Yeah, take that, pal.
There was a place to submit questions, but the live session was kept to a half hour, leaving most questions unanswered. I wanted to know if the Against Legalization team would be for legalization if it was presented in a “licensed legalization” manner—the way Doblin had explained in his first segment (which wasn’t discussed again because it was outside of the main argument). Wesley Thoricatha of Psychedelic Times asked another great question in the chat window: “If our society believes that the benefits of alcohol legalization outweigh the observable risks, how can there be any valid case against legalizing these non-addictive substances that clearly have more potential benefits and less overall risks?” Since the pros didn’t address these thoughts, I guess it’s now the job for all of us to keep asking these questions and having these conversations on our own time.
All said and done, I really enjoyed this debate and found the arguments really interesting. Sabet’s “why would we get it right this time?” overcommercialization argument really hit home with me, as I’m quickly becoming disgusted with the money-grabs, ridiculous patent-filing, and dangerous “magic pill” narrative that keeps proliferating this movement, while constantly being reminded of the ineffectiveness and rampant corruption in the government. But I wondered if he really meant that, or if he was just trying to win the debate by cashing in on the “rich people are evil” attitude he guessed many viewers would have. And while his vision of the future is ugly, was his point (or any others made by the Against Legalization team) any stronger than Doblin’s argument for taking money out of the hands of criminals in favor of safer drugs?
I loved Labate’s passion and realness and she made some great points, but her talking over people hurt her. Lieberman was very organized and prepared, but his rigidity and inability to make strong, understandable arguments hurt him. So this felt more like a debate between Doblin and Sabet, and after breaking it down more, it really felt like hope, compassion, and common sense were going up against pessimism and fear.
At the end of the debate, the results were tallied. My view was a little more nuanced and I was more open to discussion, but I still generally sided with the For Legalization team. This was not the case for others. Before the debate, 65% of viewers voted to legalize psychedelics, while 15% disagreed with the motion and 20% were undecided. After the debate, however, even though the For Legalization vote increased to 67%, the Against Legalization vote grew to 24%, giving them a 9% total increase over the For Legalization’s 2%. Therefore, in the preliminary vote, Against Legalization ended up winning the debate.
Intelligence Squared US then posted the video and encouraged people to watch, leaving voting open for a week for a separate “online audience” tally. I assumed that a larger audience would trend more towards legalization and I’d get my win here, but I couldn’t have been more wrong. Not only did the Against Legalization vote jump from 11% pre-debate to 30% post-debate, but the For Legalization vote dropped from 74% to 62% too, leaving me to wonder what arguments swayed people so much.
In the end, as I assumed it would, this debate just highlighted the importance of nuance and looking at huge, important topics like this from all angles. I’m not sure that “should society legalize psychedelics?” is a question we should even be asking (can it really be answered with a simple yes or no?), but the beauty of it is that these questions are even being asked and debated, especially by such big names on such a mainstream platform. And as a culture, we’re now making available both sides of the argument, to be heard by anyone who wants to listen. These conversations need to be had, bad arguments need to be called out, and strong points by the other side need to be looked at fairly. While the complete adult-use legalization of all psychedelics may never happen, this is the only way we’re ever going to get close.
About the Author
Mike Alexander works for Psychedelics Today. He writes the show notes for each podcast, handles most of the email, edits video and audio, helps with the blog, and annoys the rest of the team on Slack. He eats a lot of pizza, spends a lot of time in the woods, and spends most of his money on Phish tour.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, a power outage keeps Michelle from joining in, but Joe and Kyle pick up the slack, going old-school SF style for the week.
They talk about new drugs: Cybin investigating using their proprietary psychedelic compound “CYB003” for alcohol use disorder, and scientists using a technology called psychLight to identify when a compound activates the brain’s serotonin 2A receptor (in hopes of activating the biological benefits of psychedelics without their traditional hallucinogenic effects).
They also give a legalization update, with new cannabis and psychedelic reform bills in Texas and legalization bills in Louisiana, talk about non-profit Porta Sophia’s new Psychedelic Prior Art Library and the importance of establishing a public domain, and discuss Johns Hopkins’ new study on psilocybin for Alzheimer’s-related depression (and ways to possibly combat the effects of Alzheimer’s). They also cover climate change, Leonard Pickard, the tragedy of the commons, 2C-B, the importance of looking at fringe cases, and the intelligence of millennials.
Notable Quotes
“How could we shift to more cooperative actions vs. competition all the time?” -Kyle “Our map of reality is minimized inappropriately when we exclude these fringe cases. …What does it mean that somebody can present as psychic, or present as a spirit, or meet these spirits, or go to the [afterlife] and come back (in your case) and then get set on an interesting trajectory via psychedelics? This is not what doctors can deal with, but this is what those of us outside of medicine can deal with, as a philosophical endeavor.” -Joe
“Some of these new compounds- I guess it’s exciting, and you always say we need new drugs, but …why is there a race for new drugs when we’re not even using the ones to the full potential that are not even on the market right now? ..Just thinking about all the new companies coming online trying to find new drugs for patents and development, when it’s like, have we really explored the potential of the ones that have been around for a while?” -Kyle
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle, Joe, and Michelle start out with what’s turning out to be a weekly legalization update (what a time to be alive!), this week highlighting New Mexico and Virginia’s recent legalization of cannabis and Maine representative Anne Perry filing a bill to decriminalize the possession of all drugs. Vacationland, indeed!
They then talk about a recent study that proved scientifically that psilocybin increases creativity, and another that analyzed changes in personality after ceremonial group ayahuasca use, which, based on self-report assessments filled out by both participants and informants alike, showed a reduction in neuroticism among participants. This leads to a conversation about the benefits of group work and the importance of more research being done on ceremonial ayahuasca use.
They then discuss Vice’s recent recovering of the long-lost page 25 from the CIA’s report on astral projection, why this was something conspiracy theorists have been clamoring for, and how the self-knowledge aspects of the report relate to psychedelics (other than astral projection being really freaking trippy, man). And they talk about Navigating Psychedelics (which has its next round coming up on May 20th) and remind us that although that’s the one they talk about the most, there are actually several other courses at psychedeliceducationcenter.com worth checking out. Maybe there’ll be one about astral projection soon? This guy sure hopes so.
Notable Quotes
“It’s nice to see that Virginia is authorizing home grow (up to 4 plants per household) beginning July 1st. I see all these other states being able to offer this besides New Jersey, so… F. U., New Jersey.” -Kyle, who lives in New Jersey
“Human creativity kind of got us here. Human creativity can get us out, and psychedelics can play a huge role in that, if we figure out how to leverage it properly. Let’s not use this stuff to help us get more oil out of the ground or pump more freshwater into single-use plastic bottles. Let’s use it to solve this crisis.” -Joe
“Our culture is set up in this weird way that it’s constantly making us feel bad and that we’re not doing enough. So when we can all be really vulnerable and honest and open in a group, whether it’s with psychedelics or not, it’s so important.” -Michelle “We can take an analytic approach and tear it apart and try to get to the core of ‘What is this?’ but all humans have this access to this other realm through breathwork, through meditation, through psychedelics, through near-death experiences. And if you’ve ever had that experience, how do you deny it?” -Kyle
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, everyone’s back and so is the news.
They cover California Senator Scott Wiener’s SB 519 bill to decriminalize psychedelics statewide (which is the first time a decriminalize bill has been put through and passed by lawmakers instead of ballot initiatives), a 3rd Massachusetts city decriminalizing psychedelics, an article pointing out how the various flaws in our capitalistic world also thrive in the psychedelic world, and a TIME magazine article on ibogaine and Marcus and Amber Capone’s VETS organization (that curiously didn’t mention Marcus’ 5-MeO-DMT use or iboga’s endangered status).
But there are 2 big articles that lead to the most discussion this week: first, Psymposia’s article about Third Wave’s Paul Austin stealing provider information (possibly including Kyle’s) from Psychedelic.support and MAPS and the ethics of doing something like this, and second, Vice’s article examining patents and ethics within the psychedelic world. How can companies be profitable while also being ethical? How can a company grow within a capitalistic society without falling into the greed traps of our Western ways?
And although he doesn’t call it out, this episode features the return of this show notes writer’s favorite PT segment, Joe’s Paranoid Update- this time about the chaos that could ensue if the Colorado River dries up.
Notable Quotes
“We can work on ourselves, but does that ultimately heal the society when these systemic issues are at play which continue to make us sick? It just feels like this endless feedback loop. …If we’re just focused on our individuation and not actually engaging and participating in the community, in the society, then what are we doing the work for? Are we just doing it for our individual selves?” -Kyle
“Representation matters so much and it affects people’s self-esteem and self-worth when they don’t have it there, because they don’t think that that’s ever going to be a possibility for them. It just felt so good to be able to put that article out there and to represent some different types of people in this space and highlight their really important and often overlooked work. And we’re going to continue to do it.” -Michelle
“It really is just this cool new therapy for the affluent class [that] Compass [Pathways] wants, and that’s how you make the most money. But I think that if you were an ethical psychedelic company, that wouldn’t be the goal. That wouldn’t be the mission, and you wouldn’t dress it up all in this B.S. language.” -Michelle
“I do feel like we’re in the middle of something really powerful and it can either really change everything or… not. I just hope that we, as a community, keep our eye on the prize, which is like- it’s more than psychedelics. It’s cultural change, societal change.” -Michelle
If you’re a regular listener of Psychedelics Today, you know how much Joe loved Dr. Carl Hart’s newest book and testament to responsible, out-of-the-closet drug use:Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear. In this episode, Joe and Kyle get to sit down and talk with the man himself for nearly 2 hours. This one’s in the “can’t miss” department, folks.
Hart’s main points echo many of ours: that the drug war is doing exactly what those in power created it for, that drug exceptionalism is wrong and only seeing one path towards progress is limiting, that our job is to use facts and logic to battle inaccuracies and people clearly pushing a false narrative, and that drugs can be fun and coming out of the closet about responsible drug use only opens up the dialogue more (and in the interest of that, this show notes writer is high right now).
They also discuss how scientists rationalize their work within the drug war, the frustrating inaction from drug policy organizations around coming out of the drug closet, opinion-makers and their relationship to the rest of society, what needs to be done to help Brazil, how decriminalization doesn’t stop problematic policy and police, the treatment industry’s misaligned focus on drugs over environment, incorrect assumptions about heroin, the importance of safe supplies and testing your drugs, and Hart’s desire to change “harm-reduction” to “health and happiness.”
Notable Quotes
“I’m always thinking that all I have to do is make this argument logically, and then people will fall in line. That’s naive as fuck, as I’m discovering. But that’s the world in which I live, and I love that world because I can’t live in an illogical world.”
“If the treatment provider is focused on the so-called drug of the person who’s having a problem …they’ve already lost.” “High Price was a book that was kind of comfortable for progressives and conservatives as well- it’s an up-from-slavery book, you know? A poor, Black boy from the hood done well, ‘We feel good about ourselves and our society. See? It can happen to you!’ kind of story. Whereas this book is like, ‘Fuck that. We want our rights.’”
“When these people say that they are worried about drug addiction or what I’m saying might increase drug addiction, that’s some bullshit distraction. If you’re really worried about the negative effects of drug addiction, you would make sure everybody in your society is working. You’d make sure they all have health care. You’d make sure that basic needs were handled. Because if you did those things, you don’t have to worry about drug addiction.”
“The way they portray heroin in the movies sometimes, it’s upsetting because they portray it like people are deadening their emotions and feelings. It’s like, no, shit, you take heroin to feel.”
“When politicians or whoever are out here saying that they care about the opioid crises and they’re not talking about drug-checking, you can stop listening to them because those people are idiots or they think you are an idiot, but in any case, there’s no reason to listen to those people.”
In this episode, Joe interviews the most guests he’s ever had on at once- 5 people from the Entheo Society of Washington: Leo Russell (Executive Director), Monique Bridges (Head of the Female Battalion and Head Guardian of the Santo Daime Ayahuasca Church), Malika Lamont (Director of VOCAL Washington), Tatiana (Executive committee member, DNS), and Solana Booth (promoter and teacher of traditional Native American healing techniques and modalities).
The Entheo Society of Washington is a 501c3 organization that is working to create community and treatment centers and eventually a movie about the underground psychedelic culture in the Pacific Northwest. Their larger, more socially-focused goals are to encourage people to reconnect to the earth, accept our emotions more, hold space for healing and encourage others to do the same, see the economy around legal cannabis and psychedelics become much fairer, and their biggest goals: to help the most marginalized people receive care without being criminalized, and to dismantle the very systems of power that keep marginalizing them.
They are a sister organization to Decriminalize Nature Seattle, which is yet another chapter of the Decriminalize Nature movement making legal waves across the US.
Notable Quotes
“I consider the first wave of the psychedelic movement to be very masculine-oriented. So for me, just my personal opinion- the second wave just feels much more diverse, and I see a lot more women leading, and I’m excited about these women. I have lots of curiosity about them. …how they’ve come up and how they found their voice. We’ve never seen women before lead in grassroots psychedelic political efforts. We’ve never seen that in human history. So I just want to celebrate these women. I want to help the ones that are behind a mountain and lift them up.” -Leo Russell
“What is extremely attractive about decriminalization of psychedelics is that we know that the most potential is there to be able to help people heal from the issues that have impacted them through systemic violence. However, we can’t stop there, because just to heal somebody to throw them back into a harmful system is not enough. We need to dismantle the systems.” -Malika Lamont
“I do believe that there’s also a shift in general towards not criminalizing people for any kind of substance use. I think that that is a very real, attainable goal. It’s coming, and I really believe that.” -Tatiana “I really don’t like it when people say ‘use psychedelics’ when they’re talking about mushrooms or talking about plant medicines, because we don’t use people. Like, I’m not going to ‘use’ my sister Leo when I’m in a conversation with her. I’m going to partner with her and listen and look at her face (if I can see her) and be with her in that moment. So, I’m not going to use any plants; I’m going to go into the medicine, I’m going to ask permission.” -Solana Booth
“With all of the talk of being gentle and reaching higher consciousness and being cognizant of the healing properties of these plants, I think that we also cannot lose focus that trauma out of context can look like culture. Trauma out of context can look like personality or be perceived as weakness.” -Malika Lamont
Traditional entheogens (natural plant and fungi medicines) can dramatically improve human health and happiness—transforming our ability to care for ourselves and one another. The Entheo Society of Washington educates the public about the healing value of entheogens and seeks to destigmatize and decriminalize their use. Their community believes the use of entheogens reinforces our connection with nature and is an inherent personal, therapeutic, and spiritual right.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle, Joe, and Michelle once again meet through the airwaves to discuss recent news articles and see where that takes them.
They first talk about a North Wales police boss who wants to give prisoners controlled amounts of cannabis as a way to combat violence and drug addiction and how that questions the notion of prisoners being expected to suffer. Then, they head to “Missurah,” where a bill was just introduced to remove their established provision against Schedule I substances, expanding eligibility and getting them closer to how other states use 2018’s federal Right to Try Act to help people with terminal and life-threatening illnesses.
They then talk about a study that showed significant reduction in alcohol consumption after MDMA use and why the sense of connection that MDMA fosters could be the reason, a self-blinding microdosing study that proved the power of the placebo (and expectation) effect and what that might mean for regular microdosers, and a listener email highlighting the importance of establishing the idea that rituals and ceremonies don’t have to have a Shaman, healer, or some other person in an all-knowing, leadership role.
Other topics covered: how to make therapy cheaper, whether or not a lot of letters after someone’s name matters, learning survival skills, Paul Stamets, NASA, and astromycology, Zapatistas, Star Trek: Discovery, and Pauly Shore (but only a little- hopefully more next week).
Notable Quotes
“I feel like they’re getting a little out of hand sometimes with how we sell these treatments. In press releases or on websites for retreat centers, it’s like: ‘Cure everything that’s ever been wrong with you in one week!’ and ‘Addiction no more!’ -all this kind of stuff. …It’s not as sexy to sell a mushroom retreat as like: ‘Start this new relationship with mushrooms and work on it every day for the rest of your life!” That’s not going to sell.” -Michelle
“How essential is it that the therapist is even in the room? Can’t you just be somewhere really safe with a volunteer sitter or somebody that doesn’t have a huge student debt to pay off? Is the conversation being steered in a particular direction because of incentives like graduate degrees, licensure, etc? …If I can consume $30 of street MDMA and not have to pay 12 grand, and I can just go to my medicare-covered therapist a few times before and after, that’s a way cheaper proposition.” -Joe
“There’s a lot of great healers in the world that would be really amazing at doing a lot of this stuff, but could they afford their degree? The answer is probably no, and so they don’t get to even be at the table to make any of these decisions.” -Kyle
“We can say microdosing is all a placebo effect, but I think there’s something more interesting here on the power of the expectation effect, and how we’re almost manifesting our own mood change.” -Michelle
“You don’t need a Shaman there, I think, for a spiritual experience. …You don’t need someone in a seat of power. I also feel like Shamans and healers- they’re fascinating and they’re a deep part of human history, but so is the desire for power. …You don’t have to get stuck in that ‘I’m nobody, the Shaman has all the power, and I need you for learning’ [narrative].” -Michelle
In this episode, Joe interviews the founder and CEO of MindMed, JR Rahn.
This one’s a bit different and plays out perhaps unsurprisingly, as Joe’s well-established talking points against the drug war and DEA, legalize-everything stance, and all-inclusive focus on the many branches of drug-use (medical/therapeutic use, religious use, celebration/partying, inner work and exploration, and creative problem-solving) meet a businessman whose life was saved by psychedelics and who doesn’t want to talk about the battle but instead wants to push forward, all-in on the method he thinks will get people in need the medicine that could save them the fastest: not putting so much effort towards state-by-state decriminalization and demonizing the DEA, but instead, working with them towards medicalization, and telling them what we want by passing measures that allocate more capital and resources towards infrastructure that will help people.
Rahn talks about what MindMed is working on: the first approved commercial drug trial studying the effects of microdosing LSD on adult ADHD, and their more long-term plan, developing a trip-neutralizing drug that would be a safer option than Xanax for ending a challenging trip and getting people back to stability. He also discusses the importance of scalability and lowering healthcare costs, changing anecdotal evidence into real science, and his life-saving (and cheaper) hope of patients being able to work with therapists in their homes rather than in expensive, anxiety-increasing medical environments.
Notable Quotes
“As a society, we need to prioritize treatment and we don’t. …It’s just completely illogical to me that, as a society, we stare it in its face every day and we blame the opioid crisis and we blame drug addiction for our crime and all these things, yet, as a society, we don’t allocate the resources necessary to solve it.” “I think there’s that Forbes article where I was like, ‘Oh, I want nothing to do with the decrim people.’ I definitely said that, but that’s not really what I meant. What I meant was: if we’re going to make psychedelics into a medicine, and we’re going to make it scalable and accessible, I think we should be having a federal conversation about it, and to me, the most efficient pathway to do that is the FDA. And I’m concerned that we’re going to go through this process of state-by-state legalization that happened in the cannabis days and we’re going to get some pretty unsavory people involved in this community …and I’m just concerned that, if it happens in that manner, it becomes a political battle, and it doesn’t become: How do we help people? How do we get medicine to folks that are in need?”
“If we’re going to get people willing to healing themselves and get over the stigma, I think it’s important to have the feature of: ‘Look, we have the emergency stop button. Your therapist can press it if they need to when they feel that you’ve reached a point that is not good anymore.’ And I think that, ultimately (and we’ll have to study this), it might make the experience even more therapeutic. …They should be walking into a cocoon and we’re taking care of them. They should not be walking into [a room] or sitting on their couch, going, ‘Holy shit, am I going to die?’” “I’d love to get to the point where we have destigmatized these substances enough in society that people value them for what they are, and I think we will be a much better society when we get to that point, but I don’t think we can do it all at once. People tried that- didn’t work. I would just hate to watch the potential for so many people that are actually suffering from mental health and addiction [to] not get access to this treatment because we went too fast.”
“Psychedelicstoday.com: best podcast in psychedelics.”
JR is a former Silicon Valley tech executive who realized that transformational solutions to mental illness and addiction might lie in psychedelic medicines. He spent 2 years researching and began personally investing in psychedelic research through his investment company. JR partnered with drug development veteran Stephen Hurst to start MindMed in 2019, assembling a leading clinical drug discovery and development team with vast experience conducting clinical trials and research on drug candidates derived from psychedelics. Before starting MindMed, JR worked in market expansion and operations at Uber.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe are joined once again from Mexico by Michelle Janikian, and let’s take a moment to do what wasn’t done last week: welcome Michelle to the podcast, as she will be joining the guys on SFs for the foreseeable future, and possibly on other podcasts soon as well. Welcome to the revolution, Michelle!
As you’d expect, they discuss the news: Norway’s plan to decriminalize personal drug use based on recommendations from the U.N. and W.H.O. and why that may be related to Norway’s high rate of drug-related deaths (or maybe even a high suicide rate), a new bill in California to not only decriminalize psychedelics (including MDMA and LSD, and excluding peyote) but expunge records as well, a new Massachusetts bill to decriminalize all drugs and study psychedelics, a study where researchers achieved real-time communication with lucid dreamers, and Alex Jones’ (likely true) claim that government officials regularly use DMT to communicate with freaking aliens.
The most-discussed articles though, are Vice’s post about how psychedelic therapy needs to embrace the mystical side of things, and Tim Ferriss’ recent blog, pleading people to follow more ethical, safer, and more environmentally-friendly paths in their explorations of different medicines. They also talk about Ferriss’ concept of a minimum effective dose, the progress of cannabis legalization in Mexico, using caution with frameworks, Pascal’s Wager, how the idea of a psychedelic community is becoming antiquated, and whether or not Kyle is regularly astral projecting without realizing it.
Notable Quotes
“This concept of political capital- you only have so many ‘politics tokens’ to put in the machine, and being a politician, you kind of have to play the game of not only influencing what you and your constituency want but [also] ‘how do I get re-elected too?’ It’s not spending political capital to be anti-drug in most states. [To] be a really hardcore prohibitionist, you actually gain political capital in a lot of ways. But putting your neck on the line for something like this is quite risky for a politician, so, good on ya!” -Joe
“It just doesn’t fit into that narrative where it’s like: ‘Can psychedelics revolutionize mental health?’ Yes, but not just help people and cure, heal- we have to change the way we think about the human experience and we have to let in so many other weird, unworldly experiences to really, fully– like, yea, it’s going to revolutionize mental health. It’s going to revolutionize everything if we really integrate it and take all aspects of it into consideration. But that’s really hard for doctors and these psychiatrists in-training to really do- they just want a new medication to help their patients. Do they really want to like, rethink reality? [sarcastically:] That’s just for weirdos like us.” -Michelle
“Sometimes when I’m in conversations with other clinicians and it’s so pathology-oriented, I’m like, do we need to keep continuing that language? Could there be other ways of viewing and seeing this? How [can] psychedelics- or not even psychedelics- just extraordinary experiences in general help shift our view of what it means to be human? What does it mean to be well in the world? Do I always need to be sick when I come to a mental health professional? Do I always need some sort of diagnosis? I think these are the questions that my exceptional experiences have made me think about- traditional systems and how they’ve really shifted over the years.” -Kyle
“The dream world, to me, has always been so fascinating, because it’s like the natural psychedelic everyone has every night. Dreams are so weird. There’s no psychedelic that really touches how weird dreams are. And yet we go to that place every night.” -Michelle
Our regular contributor on legal matters explains how the nascent psychedelic pharmaceutical industry and grassroots reformist movement could work together to achieve both their goals, read to the majesty of the classic American musical, Oklahoma!
Interested in learning more about the legal side of psychedelics? Then sign up here to receive info on our upcoming FREE series: Religious Use of Psychedelics in the United States.
In my last article, I introduced the idea of crafting the Uniform Plant and Fungi Medicine Act (UPFMA), which could be employed as a public initiative or adopted by state legislatures as a solution to the local piecemeal reforms and slow and improbable response from the federal government to make traditional entheogens lawful outside of religious use. I am happy to report that a team is assembling to undertake drafting UPFMA.
This, of course, begs a serious and important question: Who’s going to pay for that?Cue music…
“Oh, what a beautiful morning!” …. it would be to see the burgeoning psychedelic pharmaceutical industry back and support UPFMA. Why? Because, like the cowman and the farmer, the pharmaceutical industry and the grassroots movement can be friends. In fact, they need one another. No need to struggle with your feelings over cowboy Curly McLain and farmhand Jud Fry, Laurey. You can have both!
This is no mere minstrel show; this is serious stuff. Consider:
Farmers (Played Here by Grassroot Reformists) Need a Friend
UPFMA’s promise is to provide a uniform model body of law, akin to other uniform model laws (e.g., the Uniform Commercial Code) for state reformation and regulation of plant and fungi medicines. Amongst UPFMA’s goals are to promote further options in health care, responsible use, freedom of choice, elimination of the underground market, and personal and public safety, through state adoption of a uniform reformation law that will span the gulf between prohibition and total deregulation via a reasonable regulatory structure. The model we hope to write is intended to be adoptable either by state legislatures, or by public initiative campaigns in the more than a dozen states that allow citizen legislation.
Even with the volunteers who exist and those who will come, the production and campaign will cost the sort of sums that these sorts of campaigns cost. Let’s just put it out there on the square dance floor: “Purty little surreys” ain’t cheap. UPFMA needs benefactors, sponsors, patrons, supporters, shekels. So, peering over the fence and into the grazing lands, UPFMA’s supporters want to give a loud “Howdy, Neighbor!” to our cowmen friends in the pharmaceutical industry. We cannot help but to notice that supporting UPFMA would be hugely beneficial to your interests. It need not be, “All Er Nuthin.” Can we count on you to be neighborly?
Cowmen (Played Here by the Pharmaceutical Industry) and Grassroot Reformists Are Not Competitors for Territory
The psychedelic pharmaceutical industry will derive its revenues by exploiting patents and trademarks. But, aside from modified genetics, the pharmaceutical industry cannot patent or trademark natural medicine in its unrefined state. In contrast, UPFMA would seek only to democratize natural substances and would not be aimed at the same patent-driven and trademark-driven “market” as western industrialized pharmaceuticals seek to create. UPFMA poses no challenge to pharmaceutical patents or trademarks. Indeed, discussed further below, UPFMA might even be able to help facilitate product research. Like the cowmen and farmers from Oklahoma!, pharmaceutical industry and grassroots reformists may occupy overlapping interests, but they are not competitors and do not seek incompatible goals.
UPFMA Can Help Cowmen Catch Cattle Rustlers
As the existing pharmaceutical industry can tell the future psychedelic pharmaceutical industry, the individual home grower and/or user is no threat. Rather, it is the underground market, where pirate industrializers infringe intellectual property and undercut prices, that are your true “cattle rustlers.” Unfortunately for our cowmen…errr…pharmaceutical companies, the coming FDA approval of their products also brings an increase in public interest in psychedelics, and so too an increase in the illicit market. UPFMA is no friend of the unregulated market. Rather, one of UPFMA’s goals is to reduce illicit trade, and not just in (our metaphorical) Kansas City.
You Can’t Sell the Steak, But You Can Sell the Sizzle: Pharmaceutical Companies Benefit by Supporting UPFMA
Until FDA approval is given, the psychedelic pharmaceutical industry may not advertise their products or offer them for sale. Psilocybin and MDMA are at Phase 3’s door, and FDA approval looks promising, if not inevitable. But FDA approval is still years away, and pharmaceutical companies continue to burn capital waiting for the FDA’s start pistol to fire. This delay in marketing is a costly lost opportunity.
Meanwhile, UPFMA can do what no pharmaceutical company may – begin to educate the public and draw national popular interest in natural psychedelics. While pharmaceutical companies vie for rescheduling and for FDA approval, pharmaceutical companies who back UPFMA will receive years of permissible brand awareness and marketing research, in advance of being able to bring their products to market.
Support of UPFMA Does Not Risk the Ranch
Natural medicines and their patented counterparts do not typically compete. Instead, they compliment. Because of pricing constraints, a significant population will be unable to afford pharmaceutical industry products. It is significantly that demographic – those who cannot afford these patented medicines – that UPFMA addresses. UPFMA offers an alternative to exclusion. UPFMA does not pull market share away from the pharmaceutical industry. Rather, it addresses “customers” the industry never had or was going to have. In the wise words of Obi Wan-klahoma, “These are not the cows you’re looking for.”
There’s a Bright Golden Haze on the Meadow: Support of UPFMA Grows the Ranch and Buys More Cattle
Just like the nascent psychedelic pharmaceutical industry, UPFMA optimistically predicts the public will warm to psychedelics as an optional (if not preferred) tool to fight all sorts of mental illness. As UPFMA democratizes access, a residual effect will be the encouragement of further investment, thereby enabling pharmaceutical companies to more easily explore varieties of formulations, concentrations, extractions, etc., making their products more varied and more accessible to an ever-increasingly interested market. Again, UPFMA’s focus is on natural non-branded medicines, and has no ambition to occupy the patent market.
Support of UPFMA Allows Industry Cowmen to Better-Protect Fences
UPFMA intends to consider and to factor traditional use of entheogens, including cultural and environmental interests. UPFMA’s focus is legal access, not promotion of industrialization and scale, and UPFMA resists commoditization. UPFMA can help build fences, to allow the grassroots reformists to sustain themselves while leaving scale as the province of pharmaceutical companies. And don’t forget, pharmaceutical companies will, by virtue of their patents, retain exclusivity to further refine and to sell refined products.
UPFMA Helps When the Pharmaceutical Industry Brings Its Cattle to Market
By supporting UPFMA, the pharmaceutical industry invests in itself. UPFMA helps to popularize and to normalize psychedelics and can do it more quickly than the nascent industry presently may. Not only might that help to speed FDA approval for the industry’s products, but it might help to speed acceptance by health insurance companies. In turn, that speeds up and increases revenue that can be paid back to investors or poured back into research and product development.
UPFMA Gives Cowmen Opportunity to Show the Pharmaceutical Industry’s Human Side
At the end of Act I of Oklahoma!, an unscrupulous patent medicine peddler sells our heroine actual heroin – laudanum, to be precise – promising he had her best interests at heart, whilst taking her money. While no one expects the pharmaceutical industry simply to be just a girl who “cain’t say no,” industry support of UPFMA avoids a coming public relations whirlwind over the unavoidable disjunction of the pharmaceutical industry touting the benefits of its patent medicines, while pricing them outside the reach of many.
Support of UPFMA is consistent with ubiquitous sound public policy of fostering and promoting good mental health and responsible drug use. UPFMA can help give the public an alternative, while allowing the industry a platform to openly share the benefits of supporting humanitarian goals that pharmaceutical companies hold in common with the public. In other words, if the pharmaceutical industry touts its wares as good for everyone, support of UPFMA allows the industry to walk the walk.
UPFMA Can Create a Public Health Database
For public health study, UPFMA may consider inclusion of voluntary and anonymous data gathering provisions. This may include regulatory agency ability to present program users with voluntary questionnaires regarding their experiences and other relevant health data points. Support of UPFMA fosters gathering data and sharing it for study and research.
I submit that UPFMA and the pharmaceutical industry would be fine partners at the square dance. And, like in Oklahoma!, this would be OK. Besides, UPFMA needs a partner. How about it, cattlemen? Care to two-step?
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In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe are joined from Mexico by freelance journalist (who has been featured here several times) and writer of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, Michelle Janikian. They first get into an email from a listener in Costa Rica highlighting a problem Michelle has seen in Mexico (and that mirrors last week’s discussion about ayahuasca gatherings): expats’ disregard for Covid safety protocols showing an egotistical disrespect for the communities that have welcomed them.
The episode then shifts to a bit of a callback to the early days of solidarity, with fewer philosophical ponderings and a whole lot of articles (just scroll down to view the wall of links). From ketamine reducing suicidality (and is ketamine a cure-all silver bullet or just an overhyped respite?) to a Rick Strassman-backed study of DMT for stroke patients, to a college in Jamaica opening a Field-Trip backed psilocybin lab, to Vermont and New Jersey’s progress on decriminalization bills, to a discussion on if drug laws violate human rights, to extremely mainstream Vogue and Rolling Stone both reporting on psychedelics, this episode has it all. And yes, it does also include anti-government and drug war rants from Joe, so it’s truly a complete episode.
“If we are at home working with psychedelics because we can’t do group work, I think it’s still really important to be talking about it with other like-minded folks, because when we don’t have any community and we just are using psychedelics, it can get a little delusional. …We can still take psychedelics, but we have to live in reality.” -Michelle
“Everybody’s saying psychedelic integration is important [and it] makes me roll my eyes. Like, yea, true, but how many times do we have to say it? I guess ‘until everyone’s doing it’ is the answer.” -Joe
“A lot of my anxiety and depression stems from an existential, spiritual root, and a lot of my experiences with breathwork or psychedelics in the past would get me there and provide that deep level of insight of: ‘I have a choice here.’ And it allowed me to change my relationship (or at least provide insight on how I could change my relationship to that), but then coming back to do the work was the challenge. Like, ‘Oh shit, I need to actually change this. And how do I do that?’” -Kyle
“Ok, Federal government: what can you do to win my trust back? And I don’t know what the answer is, honestly. I don’t think I will, at large, ever really trust the US Federal government. I don’t really hold out hope that I’ll trust them again in my lifetime because they’ve shown to be a corrupt, gross, crony, capitalist system that does not care about human well-being.” -Joe (big shock)
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe cover several news stories, including the University of Wisconsin-Madison creating a Psychoactive Pharmaceutical Investigation masters program, a non-profit called the Healing Advocacy Fund being created to implement therapeutic-use psilocybin in Oregon, legislature in Hawaii filing a new bill to legalize therapeutic-use psilocybin and psilocin (and remove them from their Schedule I controlled substances list), Cambridge, Massachusetts joining its neighbor, Somerville, in decriminalizing entheogenic plants, and the biggest story: Compass Pathways attempting to patent such common aspects of psilocybin-assisted therapy as soft furniture, muted colors, and providing “reassuring physical contact.” This leads to a discussion on patents and what companies are really trying to do with this behavior.
They then discuss why mescaline isn’t researched more, why psychedelic exceptionalism is a problem, Dr. Carl Hart, The Weeknd, and one of everyone’s favorite topics: the drug war and why it sucks.
“Are we in a little bit of a fantasy land when we’re trying to separate ourselves from the rest of drug culture? Big portions of psychedelic culture overlap with other portions of other drug cultures. And we’re not mutually exclusive. We’re prosecuted and surveilled by the same government agencies. Prohibition hits us all really hard.” -Joe
“I think that’s how a lot of politicians win votes, is by being ‘tough on drugs’ when we should be tough on the drug war.” -Joe
“What does it really cost to end the drug war? What do we save by ending the drug war? It’s probably actually better for culture to end the drug war than to medicalize psychedelics. It’s going to be cheaper, we’re going to have a lot of our citizenry back, we’re going to have less felons, …much less racist culture, all of that. I know this is Psychedelics Today and once in a while, I feel like I’m going, “This is Drug War Today!’ but this is just a thing that keeps coming back to me, and I think it’s important that we examine our cultural baggage around our traditions. Should we really be demonizing people who use PCP? I don’t think so.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe first talk about some great news stories pushing forward the psychedelic movement: Massachusetts General Hospital creating the Center for Neuroscience of Psychedelics with backing from Atai Life Sciences, Florida pushing forward a bill to establish a legal therapeutic-use psilocybin model similar to Oregon’s (with a task force responsible for studying psilocybin), Connecticut pushing forward their own much simpler bill to establish their own psilocybin-studying task force, and a recent study using fMRI to examine brain connectivity that found that under the influence of LSD, the relationship between anatomy and brain structure on brain function (similar to phrenology) weakens, thereby allowing the brain to explore other functional connectivity patterns.
They then dive into the hot and oddly polarizing topic of ayahuasca centers continuing to hold ceremonies with as many as 80 people and 3 sessions a week during a time when people should be doing their best to avoid large groups for the hopeful eradication of the constant thorn in our side known as Covid-19. Even for centers testing people before allowing entry, tests aren’t 100% accurate, and that only really addresses people’s time at the center and not the travel and interactions afterward. When considering risk management and harm reduction, do people attending these events really need to do this now? Could talk therapy or breathwork over the internet (or taking LSD or psilocybin safely with a trusted friend) be a temporary tide over until gathering in large groups is safe again? What’s ethical here?
“A lot of people fear that folks like you and I and the psychedelic culture at large might destroy this whole medicalization thing by perhaps being too reckless, making regulators nervous. But I think because a huge money company like Atai and Mass General are working on this (and there’s so many other big institutions), that this is the kind of ballast that would resist any kind of backslide into a deepening of the drug war. …This is a nice way to say, ‘Ok, we can’t really go backwards from here.’” -Joe “Politics is regularly about gambling: ‘What is going to be politically popular, possibly make a big difference, or get me re-elected?’ And it’s kind of a weird political calculus that people have to make. The fact that politicians in these states are willing to put their name on the line and say, ‘Hey, I believe in this. I think you should too’- that’s a pretty big deal. They’re spending their political capital. Whereas years ago, it would have been maybe, ‘Let’s stop the Iraq war,’ now, it’s: ‘Let’s get these people treatment with psilocybin’ and that’s really cool progress.” -Joe
“When you’re talking about magical thinking and ‘The spirit of ayahuasca’s going to protect me,’ well, I guess we have to look back into history- did shamanistic beliefs help protect a lot of Indigenous people that fell ill from a lot of the European sicknesses and disease that came over in the early years? … A lot of people died from illness being transmitted within those communities.” -Kyle
“Does your organization have a contact tracing plan? Even if you have a contact tracing plan and testing, that doesn’t mean that people aren’t going to die as a result of you doing this” -Joe
In this episode, Joe interviews author of Psychedelica Lex, general counsel to the Peyote Way Church of God, founder and president of the Arizona Cannabis Bar Association, and practicing attorney for nearly 30 years, Gary Michael Smith, Esq.
Smith talks about what he specializes in- the law and how it relates to psychedelics, and what’s happening most in his world right now: people trying to create new religions, people fighting for their religions to be legally permitted to use entheogens, and investors rapidly trying to push psilocybin and MDMA through the FDA as prescribable medications. He also talks about the Peyote Way Church of God, the history of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (often referred to as RFRA), the problems with banks and dealing with money attached to illegalities, the complications of fighting for legal drug use and the importance of having established history with entheogens, the antihero aspects and deification of Timothy Leary, Nixon and the scheduling of cannabis, federal patent law, today’s speed of knowledge and the youth’s resistance of what they’re being told, and how there’s an argument to be made that many of today’s existing religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam, of note) have a right to use entheogens due to their somewhat newly discovered historical use.
Notable Quotes
“The short story is, I went looking for this book and I couldn’t find it. It didn’t exist. So I figured well, heck, if I’m going to have to pull and do all this research, I might as well assemble it into a book and fill the void. So that’s how the book came about- written because nobody else wrote it.” “There aren’t really any psychedelic lawyers yet. I’m probably the first one to publicly come out and say that I am. And for good reason: there’s really not a lot of business right now that attracts this. But seeing cannabis unfold over the last decade, as I have- it doesn’t really take a genius to figure out that the law is way behind the curve on this, and lawmakers even more behind the curve, and there’s no shame in trying to catch up, or, Heaven forbid, get ahead.”
“I’m advocating a middle ground position where I think that these companies absolutely have a place, I think that they absolutely can do good (it’s not the tool that’s bad, it’s how you use the tool), so what I’d like to see is both the fostering of this licit market where there are companies that can mass-produce and also give people in the West what they’re comfortable with, which is a Western model of medicine. …I think as long as there is an across-the-board decriminalization so people can still do freely for themselves, let the medical model grow up next to it. There’s no contradiction as far as I’m concerned.”
A seasoned litigator, advisor, mediator and arbitrator, Gary Smith focuses his practice on commercial matters, construction, real estate, cannabis and administrative law. He has represented a wide range of individual and institutional clients in both State and Federal courts, administrative hearings, and arbitration. Moreover, Gary is one of the leading cannabis attorneys in the state, often advocating for ADR in the industry under the Weediator and Weediation brands. Notably, he served as amici counsel to the former Director of the Arizona Department of Health Services in the Arizona Supreme Court petition State v. Jones, attempting to restore cannabis extracts and concentrates to legal status under the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act. He has authored numerous articles about cannabis law, and he is commonly invited to share his expertise with professional association and industry groups. Further, Gary is a founder and current president of the Arizona Cannabis Bar Association, an organization committed to educating lawyers and the public about cannabis law and responsible legislation.
Wittingly or not, pharmaceutical companies are clearing the path to the next populist revolution in traditional psychoactive plant and fungi medicines. Although still on the horizon, reregulation is fait accompli. As decriminalization and rescheduling of plant and fungi medicines advances, the inability to drive product costs suitably down will fuel the existing black market. Illicit users exist and more will join their ranks as pharmaceutical companies create a customer base. While new understanding of these ancient medicines disseminates, the public will learn that plant and fungi medicine is significantly less expensive to forage or cultivate at home than clinics or pharmacies could ever offer.
Pharmaceutical Companies Are Protecting Their Interest with Patents, and the FDA Will Impose Limits on End-Users
Pharmaceutical companies are doing necessary and helpful work, leading the way with regulators. But their reign will not last. It is inevitable that a populist preference to procure psychedelics per penny will prevail. Profiteers have a problem: price.
Consider the effect on price caused by:
Federal law’s support of patent “monopoly.”
Health insurance’s slow adoption of psychedelics.
Investor need to recoup investments in years of research and promotion.
Investor hunger for profits.
Novelty, as the world awakens with fascination to something old as something new.
To recoup the tens-to-hundreds of millions of dollars invested in securing FDA approval and related patents, and then the expense of thereafter marketing their wares for a profit, the corporate owners of these future FDA-approved psychedelics are not acting out of principled charity or for the goodwill of all humankind. They are going to make their money, either in the pricing of the medicine or in the coupling of it to clinical services. At least in the early years, as the owners of these patents and FDA approvals try best to figure out how to market their products, it seems the inevitable price per dose will be multi-hundred dollars. Even if the price gets down to tens of dollars, nature remains tough competition- nature’s price tag of “free” is a tough price to beat.
Pharmaceutical Companies Are Not the Problem— But They Are Its Origin
This not a rant against pharmaceutical companies, capitalism, or therapeutic services. It’s far from such, and each plays a necessary and vital role in this story. Without pharmaceutical company efforts, there would be no story. This is simply an observation that plant and fungi medicines are nothing more than unrefined nature, metaphorically and literally as cheap as dirt. With simplicity of that sort as competition, pharmaceutical companies are going to have a tough time keeping the genie in their “bottle of exclusivity.” This is not the circumstance where a retort of, “If you don’t like our prices, try to manufacture your own ibuprofen” ends the conversation. With psychoactive plants, if you do not like industrial prices, you can easily forage or home grow for pennies or free.
FDA Approval Means Islands of Privilege and a Festering Public Resentment
Here is the rub: future customers who may initially believe it acceptable to pay high prices for psilocybin or other natural therapeutic psychoactives will be the second group to bear resentment.
The people who cannot afford to partake are the first to be left out.
The western industrial medical model is unintentionally in the midst of creating a psychedelic privileged class. If you cannot afford FDA-approved medicine, you will be left out. And if you try to partake like the wealthy people who can pay Gwyneth Paltrow prices, you will be branded a criminal. The difference? Pay your “tithing” to a corporation, and you will be alright. Do not pay? Well, tough luck on you, felon.
Who dares tell those who can’t afford this ancient “new” medicine not to turn to alternative sources, after science and corporate America confirm these plants and fungi are effective and healthy? Who dares blame those who correctly observe that contemporary science confirmation and corporate blessings do not themselves literally turn something old into something new? The fact that a corporate board finally figured out how to squeeze a nickel, or a politician found courage through campaign donations is not going to wipe out thousands of years of well-documented natural medicines and their effects.
Shareholders telling the public not to access nature, while slapping nature’s bounty with big price tags, is not going to sit well. The public will not long tolerate pharmaceutical companies touting the “added value” their little tweaks, concentrates, or clever packaging and marketing may bring. The public will inevitably learn that science did not give us psychedelics. Rather, science, in the name of politics, merely confirmed what thousands of years of human history have already well documented. The use of certain psychoactive plants and fungi to treat anxiety and depression is no more a credit-worthy invention than Columbus accidentally running into North America, and like a continent, thousands of years of history were not waiting for a contemporary politician’s approval to justify its existence.
Resentment over artificial financial barriers will satiate itself in a black market and home cultivation. The more pharmaceutical companies raise awareness, insisting compounds like psilocybin treat depression and anxiety, the more the public will want affordable access. Profiteering pharmaceutical companies are making a case against their own long-term interests. As modern cannabis has taught us, much like every vegetable at the supermarket, product price is a race to the bottom, and the vendor with the lowest price wins. Mother Nature, with her pesky ability to self-generate, and with a price tag of “free,” poses eternal and tough competition.
State Legislatures Could Be the Solution (But Won’t)
As federally approved plant and fungi medicines make inroads, there will be market-driven increase in illicit use- illicit being “illegal,” only because our current laws deem it so. Knowing this, the logical thing would be for legislatures to act and get ahead of what will become a problem. Make no mistake, it is coming. But most legislatures are too frightened of change, and psychedelics, for too many, represent radical change.
The political familiar is not the noble lion. It is the chicken, and rather than face their fears (and in so doing, master them), legislatures opt to ignore and pretend it will all just go away. My home state of Arizona is such a place. Three times, the citizens of Arizona passed pro-marijuana laws by public initiative. This election, a successful citizen initiative made Arizona the 13th state to legalize recreational marijuana. Although invited multiple times to craft laws, Arizona’s legislature took no action, forcing the citizens to do so for themselves.
A Better Solution— Introducing the Public Initiative
No one expects self-initiated reform from the federal government or from agencies like the FDA and DEA. One need only look to cannabis’ experiences these many decades. But one-by-one, citizens of certain states and cities are changing their local laws through a direct democratic process known as public initiative.
Public initiatives are citizen-initiated and citizen-driven proposals for new state laws or state constitutional amendments (sorry, there is no such thing as a federal public initiative). If enough citizen signatures are collected to qualify an initiative to be on the ballot, the initiative is added to the ballot and citizens vote on whether to adopt the initiative as new state or city law. For example, in November 2020, a few plant and fungi medicine citizen initiatives went to ballot, including Oregon’s psilocybin initiative, Measure 109, Arizona’s recreational cannabis initiative, Smart & Safe Arizona, and District of Columbia’s Initiative 81. All were successful- a historic first in U.S. history.
Even though state initiatives do not change federal law, changes in state law take off some pressure, reduce individual criminal entanglements, and allow for experimentation of policy reform. Plus, public initiatives garner the attention of other states and the federal government, thereby advancing the dialogue of reform.
Citizens of states with no public initiative
laws are in a tougher place. They must resort to lobbying and campaigning for
office to make these changes. But maybe those of us in states with public
initiative laws can help at home. Plus, there is no reason a uniform model
plant and fungi medicine act could not similarly be adopted by state
legislatures. After all, the goal of a public initiative is to create laws upon
which a majority of citizens agree. Any well-worded initiative good enough for
a public vote could as easily be adopted inside a legislature.
Do Not Move a Mountain One Pebble at a Time
Although an initiative’s success at the ballot box is important, the progress it brings is slow, local, and piecemeal. There is a better way. Citizens can join forces and campaign with a uniform initiative that could be introduced simultaneously in multiple states and flip the country in one election.
As seen with cannabis, successful initiatives sometimes have a domino effect. There is every reason to believe that neighboring states will take notice. A well-regulated legal environment is apt to serve as the national model, and success invites imitation. Strong currents in law and politics favor uniform laws. They make commerce and predictability more reliable across jurisdictions. The unanimous adoption of the Uniform Commercial Code is emblematic.
Strength in Numbers
Imagine the buying power of shared campaign costs across ten or more states. Imagine the impact on national public awareness with campaigns running simultaneously in multiple states, educating the public about plant and fungi medicine reform. Imagine the favorability a well-crafted initiative will receive, if citizens across the country know they are not alone in considering change. A multi-state public initiative can attract and focus investment dollars from every national (and local) group with a stake in serious drug policy reform. In lieu of small and local, perhaps a national campaign will attract national dollars and national support from national drug policy, mental health, civil liberty, and similar reform organizations.
As results of the 2020 election suggest, there has never been a better time than now to push for impactful reform. A uniform initiative can succeed if it is thoughtful about cost and access, is patient-focused, is respectful of privacy, is driven by science, promotes responsible access and responsible use, and looks upon plant and fungi medicine as a health and spiritual issue instead of a criminal issue.
Remember there is no such thing as perfect law, and there is always someone ready to complain. Doomsayers can be placated with the inclusion of terms to address child safety, impaired driving, tax allocation, etc. A well-crafted uniform model plant and fungi medicine act can and should deal with the good and the bad upfront. A well-crafted uniform plant and fungi medicine initiative can curry favor amongst millions of citizens and be implemented in multiple states in a single election cycle. Swaths of the nation can tune in and turn on together, while implementing sound and measured policy that can start to erase the damage of the last 50 years of oppression and societal harms brought about by the Controlled Substances Act and the war on drugs.
In February 2020, Israel treated its first PTSD patients in Phase 3 trials with MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. The trials are part of a research initiative conducted in partnership with the US-based Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), encompassing 15 sites in the US, Canada, and Israel, that is expected to conclude in the fourth quarter of 2021, in anticipation of receiving full regulatory approval.
The first randomized controlled trial of MDMA, the results of which were published in 2010, achieved an incredible 83% success rate in alleviating symptoms of PTSD, sustained over the 3.5-year duration of the study. More recent studies have demonstrated such significantly higher therapeutic results with MDMA relative to FDA-approved drugs for PTSD that in 2017, the FDA granted it a breakthrough therapy designation (BTD).
In 2019, Bella Ben Gershon, director of the Israeli Ministry of Health’s Psychological Trauma Unit, reported a 68% success rate for clinical trial patients whose PTSD symptoms were resistant to more conventional forms of treatment.
Considering the role of post-traumatic stress in exacerbating and perpetuating conflict, one way the US could improve its prospects for achieving a sustainable set of interdependent diplomatic agreements addressing security concerns in the Middle East would be to lead a Middle East science diplomacy initiative including Israel, Iran, and the Arab states.
A highly promising area of research to focus regional cooperation on would be the application of psychedelic drugs to the treatment of post-traumatic stress, which, over time, could be applied to countering violent extremism, security sector reform, and conflict resolution.
Political opposition to a US invitation to Iran should be reconsidered in light of decades of scientific cooperation on a broad range of issues between the US and the Soviet Union from the Eisenhower to the Reagan administration. Israel and the UAE’s more recent decision to conclude a peace agreement and engage in scientific cooperation, followed by a similar agreement between Israel and Bahrain (despite outstanding policy differences between these countries concerning the Israeli-Palestinian issue) set the stage for regional science diplomacy. Despite persistent enmity between Israel and Iran, Israel’s direct offer to the Iranian public to assist in water supply management, though lacking in diplomatic tact, further strengthens the case.
Though its many applications have yet to enter into the mainstream of international relations, psychedelic research based in prestigious Western research institutions such as Johns Hopkins University, New York University, MAPS, Imperial College London, and Beckley Foundation has made great scientific strides since the missteps of the 1960s and subsequent decades of government suppression of research into these highly intriguing substances.
One can envision a future, as close as the next decade or two, in which they become instrumental- not only to the treatment of mental health disorders that established medications and therapeutic techniques have, in many cases (at best) unsatisfactorily managed, but also to resolve some of the most complex problems of international diplomacy. Solving these problems will depend on leaders reconciling with their own trauma and expanding their empathetic and creative problem-solving capacities, all of which psychedelics have the potential to facilitate, depending on the openness of those who are courageous enough to explore them.
This is not such a bold proposition considering the broader historical and current context. Intelligence agencies, including the CIA, researched LSD and other psychedelics beginning in the 1950s (if not earlier) for their potential efficacy in interrogation and covert operations. Illicit drugs such as Captagon are being distributed on the battlefields of Syria to bolster combatants’ endurance and fighting resolve.
The highly unstable state of the Middle East and the demonstrated shortcomings of world leaders to engage broadly in effective diplomacy raises the question of why drugs should not be studied in earnest with the aim of applying them to psychological issues related to peace-building and international cooperation. Considering the existential threats to human civilization from cyber and hypersonic nuclear weapons and the callous disregard of world leaders for the destabilization of our planet’s climate, this is arguably, more than ever, a moral imperative.
As MAPS’ Director of Policy and Advocacy, Natalie Lyla Ginsberg, notes, “For millennia, indigenous communities around the world have used ceremonies and traditions involving plant medicines in the service and protection of intergenerational peace, and some communities continue to use traditional medicine practices for active conflict resolution. For example, in Colombia, councils of indigenous communities are joining together to hold yagé (ayahuasca) ceremonies to bring together those fighting on opposing sides of the civil war.”
Anecdotes of deep personal shifts in perspective, healing, and transformation have been documented in American veterans who have explored treatment with ayahuasca for post-traumatic stress- a contributing factor to substance abuse, domestic violence, and suicide.
In addition to ayahuasca and psilocybin mushrooms, there is evidence that natural psychedelics such as ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT may be able to catalyze healing from post-traumatic stress and related symptoms, as documented in a study published in the scientific journal Chronic Stress in July, 2020.
In an October 2018 segment on treating veterans with the empathogen MDMA, The Economist reported that the VA alone spends approximately $400 million per year on PTSD and other mental health issues. An estimated 8 million Americans suffer from PTSD.
Approximately 900,000 Israelis- 10 percent of the population- also suffer from PTSD, according to Dr. Keren Tzarfaty, MAPS’ representative in Israel.
Among the millions of refugees and internally displaced persons of the conflicts of Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Libya, vast numbers are susceptible to developing PTSD and some are vulnerable to recruitment by militant groups, in part, as a result of their traumatic experiences.
Psychedelics do not offer magic cures to the complex problems ailing our world. They can be used for nefarious and noble purposes and everything in between. As with nuclear power or any technology, it ultimately depends on how one chooses to use them. With wisdom and good intention, they may help us to achieve even deeper diplomatic breakthroughs that have, for so long, eluded us, in great part because they have so challenged our political leaders’ empathic capacities.
Thomas Buonomo is an independent political consultant with expertise in Middle East affairs. Much of his research over the last decade and a half has focused on how trauma associated with violent conflict can inhibit conflict resolution and, in more recent years, on how psychedelics could help increase the probability of constructive diplomatic outcomes. His writing has been published by Middle East Policy, Atlantic Council, Washington Institute for Near East Policy’s Fikra Forum, The Cipher Brief, Securing America’s Future Energy (SAFE)’s The Fuse, Cairo Review of Global Affairs, The Daily Star, The National, RealClear Defense, Informed Comment, The Hill, CQ Roll Call, The Humanist, et al.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle review all of the big wins from the U.S. election, from Oregon decriminalizing drug possession and legalizing psilocybin therapy, to 4 states legalizing cannabis use for adults, to the most surprising (in terms of how far this movement has come), Washington D.C. decriminalizing plant medicines with an overwhelming 76% of voters in favor.
And they talk about the other side of this good- how Oregon memes show just how little the majority of people understand, how there are still huge issues with stigma, drug exceptionalism, and labeling, how liability and the rules of healthcare get in the way of compassion and humane treatment, and how those same issues will unfortunately extend into psychedelics.
They also do a brief deep dive into breathwork- its history, its various versions, its building blocks (accelerated breathing, evocative music, focused bodywork, group process, and safety), and the risks and likely loss in benefit in attempting to do this kind of work online.
“I remember just watching all of this stuff come in on election night and just thinking, ‘Wow, it feels like plants have really won the election here.’ …All of the initiatives that were up there passed during this election cycle, which is pretty phenomenal and a huge kind of shift.” -Kyle
“These different institutions have different rules, different liabilities. Like, a VA doc is probably going to be a lot more protected than a private practice doc, but the VA doc is going to be on a lot tighter regulations on what they can do, just based on the healthcare system they’re in. It’s a complicated deal. I don’t envy doctors for having to be in that situation. It’s really not an easy job. And I know they’re doing the best they can; it’s just, you know, their rules get in the way of their compassion and interest in healing people sometimes.” -Joe
“I had and still have a ferocious case of ADD that’s never been diagnosed. I’ve been extraordinarily productive if I ever needed to use something like Adderall. It works great. But there’s so much stigma around saying something like that in the psychedelic world. We’re often a little too judgy, is kind of my position. …There’s cases when it’s appropriate, there’s cases when it’s not appropriate, and as long as there’s informed consent and decent education, it should be up to the individuals, and we should stay the fuck out of people’s business.” -Joe
On breathwork: “It’s my favorite. It’s something I’ve been doing for so long that it’s my most comfortable, somehow least scary method of going inside and doing inner work, because I know I have this safe cultural container- a safe container with people I trust and love, and it’s always helpful and amazing. Even if I don’t get the experience I want, just being there in community is still medicine enough.” -Joe
The 2020 U.S. election has brought several significant wins for proponents of drug policy. Presidential and pandemic madness aside, these wins deserve to be celebrated. Here are the most significant changes this election has ushered into law.
1. Psilocybin Mushrooms Have Been Legalized in Oregon
For the first time since they became a Schedule I drug in 1971, psilocybin mushrooms have attained legal status in a U.S. state. With nearly a 56% majority, Oregon’s Measure 109, referred to as the Psilocybin Services Act, has significantly altered the psychoactive fungi’s future in the state, and quite possibly the nation.
Psilocybin’s newfound legality in Oregon carries important caveats: mushrooms will be legal only within state-regulated “psilocybin service centers,” their use will require supervision by a state-licensed facilitator, a preparation session will be required, and participants must be over the age of 21. Thus, it would be more accurate to state that under the umbrella of the Oregon Health Authority (OHA), regulated psilocybin mental health services will now be legal in the state.
The OHA will establish the specific protocols- i.e. supervisor training requirements and dosing standards over the next two years. So long as universal implosion has not transpired by 2022, we will witness the formation of a legal service in the United States that committed psychonauts of the last many decades never could have anticipated.
So, Oregon will not suddenly become a haven for independent growers holding ecstatic dance bashes and selling their flushes to flannel-wearers far and wide. It will, however, set the standard for psilocybin-assisted mental health services in the United States. Given that the Schedule I label has long classified mushrooms as having “high potential for abuse” and “no currently accepted medical use,” a successful implementation of these treatment facilities could pave the way for large-scale changes in propaganda-informed prohibitions long embedded into federal law.
For the sake of a bad pun at the expense of one of two U.S. Presidents most responsible for these prohibitions, let’s celebrate Measure 109 as a loss for the Gipper, and a big win for the Tripper.
2. Measure 110 Decriminalizes Drug Possession in Oregon
Beyond the psychedelic-specific world, Oregon has made another huge move in ending the war on drugs with the passing of Measure 110. The measure, which passed with nearly a 59% majority, effectively decriminalizes non-commercial possession of small amounts of some of the most heavily penalized drugs in the country, including cocaine and heroin.
To clarify the significance, Oregon’s previous classification of non-commercial possession was a Class A Misdemeanor, which was punishable with up to a $6,250 fine and one year in prison. That has now changed to a Class E violation. Instead of potential imprisonment, folks possessing small amounts of these substances will have the option to pay a $100 fine or receive a “completed health assessment” at an addiction treatment facility. According to the measure, these treatment services will be paid for “in part by the state’s marijuana tax revenue and state prison savings.”
This is a huge win for those fighting the oppression of the war on drugs on several fronts. Not only are penalties far less life-destroying, but the state is actively shifting the ethos of criminality around substance use that has dominated the nation for decades into a model of rehabilitation and social service. Within this shift is the recognition that substance addiction is not reducible to moral failures of the will, but rather a mental health illness that often requires external intervention to heal.
Now, it’s key to remember the difference between “legalization” and “decriminalization.” Mushrooms, for instance, were famously decriminalized in Denver in 2019. This meant that they remained a Schedule I illegal substance, but the prosecution of their possession became the city’s lowest law enforcement priority. The potential ambiguities of this nuance were cast in sharp relief when Denver’s infamously boastful mushroom grower/distributor Kole Milner was raided by the DEA five months after the initiative’s passing. Milner was charged on one account of possession with intent to distribute, and last month, Milner pleaded guilty in hopes of reducing his sentence to six months in prison.
The goal in sharing this isn’t to freak you out or be a downer. It’s to remind you to be mindful and careful during this propitious phase of drug policy reform and evade the pitfalls of Icarus’ ill-fated hubristic flight.
A final implication of Measure 110 is that while psychedelics may be the substances of choice for readers of Psychedelics Today, it can be dangerous to over-glorify psychedelics at the expense of other drugs. Engaging in this “psychedelic exceptionalism” can unconsciously perpetuate and embed racially-motivated, propaganda-induced stigmas around “bad” drugs. As Dr. Carl Hart told Psychedelics Today, “It’s just wrong to vilify people for wanting to alter their consciousness and the particular drug that they use, especially when you’re doing the same thing with another drug.”
At its core, using any substance is choosing to alter consciousness. Measure 110 opens a big door on the long route toward making that choice an essential human right, while simultaneously recognizing and addressing the potential for harm that substance use invariably opens.
One of the most high-profile chapters of the Decriminalize Nature movement has been Washington D.C.’s Initiative 81. Yesterday, the initiative passed by a landslide, with 76% of voters casting a ballot in its favor.
The initiative effectively decriminalizes the “non-commercial cultivation, distribution, possession, and use of entheogenic plants and fungi” in the nation’s capital, a category defined as “species of plants and fungi that contain ibogaine, dimethyltryptamine, mescaline, psilocybin, or psilocyn.”
Initiative 81’s passing makes D.C. the fourth U.S. city to decriminalize entheogens, and the fifth to decriminalize psilocybin. (Denver’s Ordinance 301 was limited to psilocybin mushrooms.) As with the decriminalization measures of Oakland, Santa Cruz, and Ann Arbor, the D.C. initiative renders the enforcement of laws against natural plant medicines among the lowest law enforcement priorities.
The decriminalization movement’s continuing spread through the U.S. has not come without controversy. The Indigenous Peyote Conservation Initiative (ICPI) and the National Council of Native American Churches (NCNAC) have spoken critically of the decriminalization movement, citing histories of oppression and mistrust of these non-Indigenous measures that could further threaten peyote, their sacred and endangered medicine. In March of 2020, these organizations made a specific request that decrim movements remove the word “peyote” from their initiatives. While Initiative 81 mentioned “mescaline,” the psychoactive chemical of peyote, the phrasing appears to have respected this request.
4. Four States Legalize Cannabis for Adult Use
Cannabis is now legal for adult recreational use in four more states: Arizona, Montana, New Jersey, and South Dakota (South Dakota!). On top of legalization, Arizona’s passed measure will also allow for people previously convicted of particular cannabis-related crimes to clear their records. With these four added to the roster, cannabis is now legal for adult consumption in fifteen States.
South Dakota and Mississippi legalized cannabis for medical use as well, making South Dakota the first state to pass medical and recreational laws under two separate measures in the same election. These advances now bring the total number of states offering some form of medical access to thirty-five.
In their debriefing of these changes, the Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP) wrote, “By 2022, we could end U.S. federal marijuana prohibition.” The fight to end the war on drugs is far from over, but each new policy is a crucial step toward an optimistic conclusion.
Looking Forward
2020 has been quite a turbulent flight for many, if not an intergalactic rocket on constant verge of explosion. All predictions of where the world is headed appear to have collapsed into cosmic uncertainty. Nevertheless, amidst the turmoil these curated algorithms of frantic news churn and sell, significant changes in drug laws continue to take effect in unprecedented propulsion.
With these new laws in mind, as well as MDMA-assisted psychotherapy’s legal forecast set for 2023, the landscape of substance use and normalization is shaping up to look radically different by the mid-2020s. Plenty of folks are going to need some help rebounding from this seismic maelstrom we are collectively navigating. For those who often sink into despair lamenting the global situation, perhaps it’s helpful to remember that these new options are adorning the tables of expanding possibility.
About the Author
Sean Lawlor is a writer, certified personal trainer, and Masters student in transpersonal counseling at Naropa University, in pursuit of a career in psychedelic journalism, research, and therapy. His interest in consciousness and non-ordinary states owes a great debt to Aldous Huxley, Ken Kesey, and Hunter S. Thompson, and his passion for film, literature, and dreaming draws endless inspiration from Carl Jung, David Lynch, and J.K. Rowling. For more information or to get in touch, head to seanplawlor.com, or connect on Instagram @seanplawlor.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and dissect 3 recent items in the news.
First, they discuss a 2-year study on 18 older long-term AIDS survivors (OLTAS) with a high degree of demoralization and trauma, in which participants underwent 3 hours of individual psychotherapy, one 8 hour psilocybin session, and 12-15 hours of group therapy. While the study predictably showed improvement in demoralization after a 3-month follow-up, the bigger takeaway is the effectiveness of group therapy and the ability to replace hours of individual therapy, (in this case) cutting therapist time almost in half. With many people struggling to connect with facilitators but finding connection in groups, could group therapy work better to help with healing while also cutting costs? This brings up the concept of AI therapy and what improvements we could see by adding technology to this fairly established clinical model, both in cost and effectiveness.
They next talk about Decriminalize Nature Oregon groups urging voters to vote “no” on the upcoming Oregon Psilocybin Service Measure 109 due to them finding the measure to be highly restrictive and essentially putting these plant medicines behind a paywall, making it even more difficult for those with race and income-based trauma to gain access. They wonder why DN is so opposed to what they see as progress- why not come at the problem from all angles and embrace legality alongside other initiatives, especially in a time when we are likely to see huge spikes in pandemic-related PTSD?
This leads to a discussion of David Bronner of Dr. Bronner pulling funding from DN at a national level (but still supporting local initiatives) and the in-fighting that’s seeming to happen everywhere with this battle. And that leads to money and the very common feeling that large donations usually come with ulterior motives. And how do you make sure they don’t? Does taking money from someone to further your cause automatically make you a sell out? Or is there only a conflict if you have the contingency of the donor needing some sort of return on investment that affects the end goal?
Notable Quotes
“Let’s just keep experimenting and understanding what we lose when we get a little bit more technical, and perhaps also what we might gain. What would happen if you had your clients wearing a wearable, so you could review how their week actually was in data terms vs. self-reporting? That would be an interesting adjunct. And what happens when you do a full system thing with apps and the wearable being tied to that, to say, ‘Alright, hey, you should go meditate for a little bit, [and] right now, because you are spiking’ or ‘Go do this bio-feedback thing for 5-10 and re-regulate and then go back to your day’?” -Joe
“I think a lot of people that are just starting off, that are looking for some sort of mental health treatment- they’re probably going to want this medical model. Going to a group setting scares the shit out of them. They might not want to go to ayahuasca ceremonies or these spiritually-oriented, self-development groups with people. They might want that one-on-one, individual session, maybe to start off with, until they can build up a little bit of expertise and understand their own inner psyche, where they say, ‘Huh, maybe I can explore different models and different uses of context now.’ But I think that is something that is important to try to explore too- what do the people want that are outside of these inner circles that are more seasoned psychonauts- people that are trying to push for some of these changes and trying to say, ‘Hey, this is the model that we want’? Well, does everyone want that? Is that going to work for everybody?” -Kyle
“There’s no real reason to think that laws stay forever. Laws are flexible. Laws are a pain in the butt. Laws are also amazing sometimes. So consider flexibility when thinking about laws and that citizens can change things. Perhaps we don’t get it right [on the] first try, but let’s get it right iteratively. This is the direction of right, in my mind- what OPS [Oregon Psilocybin Society] is doing.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and discuss recent items in the news, including the passing of Tav Sparks; author, therapist, co-director of Grof Transpersonal Training, and creator of “Movie Yoga,” and scientist Jordi Riba; one of the early pioneers of ayahuasca research and one of the first ever to bring it into the lab.
They discuss the ayahuasca episode of the new Netflix docuseries “Unwell,” and 2 articles from Marijuana Moment: psychedelic activists in Oakland creating a guideline for plant medicine healing ceremonies and the new initiative to allow for legal use in controlled settings, and 4 state attorney generals and 50 current and former law enforcement officials sending a letter to Congress endorsing a federal marijuana legalization bill after a recent poll showed that 62% of likely voters support it. As Joe says, “It’s about time… 20 years ago.”
And lastly, they discuss Bright Minds Biosciences’ recent tweet claiming that the future is in what they’re working on: modifying molecules in psilocybin to reduce trip times from 4-6 hours to 60-90 minutes. While this could be huge for people who can’t safely partake in longer trips, and more specifically for sufferers of cluster headaches, they wonder about intention: is this for the betterment of mankind or just for profit and headlines? Isn’t sitting with the trip part of the healing? Isn’t integration afterward even more important? Is this a new tool/solution, or a band-aid? Is it all of the above?
This leads to Kyle sharing that a friend of his recently committed suicide, and the reminder that we all need to practice self-care- it’s never been more important than it is now in our current disconnected, online, fearful, COVID lives- even the smallest effects of what’s going on can take a big psychological toll. Remember to take care of yourselves, folks.
Notable Quotes
“We just need more and more drugs, but we have to be able to see through this marketing junk so we know how to appropriately contextualize it, and not just fall prey to ‘Oh cool, this is the right drug. This is the best drug, it has the most research behind it.’ Subtext: this just had the most pharma dollars behind it.” -Joe
“Do we really need these fast solutions? I think, on one hand, yes, because some people are definitely going to kill themselves tomorrow. At least 22+ veterans are going to kill themselves tomorrow, which is horrible- and today, and yesterday and every day until we have some sort of good intervention, or the numbers go [down]. It’s really tough. But also, no. Are we just slapping a band-aid on and saying, ‘cool, go get sick again’?” -Joe
“When I think about these quick, band-aid-like substances, like, ‘Oh yes, you can just do your healing.’ Well, this is where the integration comes in. Do you have that support network? Are you living a life that feels like it’s in balance with how you want to live? Are you surrounded by good people? Are you surrounded by that community? Are you taking care of yourself?” -Kyle
“Scary shit, but as a species, we’ll get through it. Individual tragedies don’t usually slow down the machine of human progress. And we’re going to see a continually exciting series of events, I think, for the next 70 years. So I don’t think, you and I, in our lifetime, Kyle, are going to get bored. We might be horrified at times, we might be amazed at times, but we’re going to see slow progress.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and talk about recent items in the news, and dive deep into analyzing 2 articles that are very critical of MAPS’ involvement with the police, military, and government.
They first discuss Canada-based nonprofit TheraPsil’s recent win of four people with incurable cancer being granted the ability to use psilocybin for end-of-life therapy, and how this framework could be copied and used in the US through the Right-to-try act, signed into law in 2018.
They then discuss Dimitri Mugianis’s recent article in Salon, which highlighted the long history of psychedelics being used in negative ways, from Vikings presumably using some sort of mushroom to get to a pillaging, “Berserker warrior” mindstate, to the 11th century Nizari Isma’ili State, which reportedly used hashish as a tool for motivation and control, to MKUltra and experiments on Whitey Bulger, to the most recent death of Elijah McLain from a large forced injection of ketamine. And they discuss David Nickles’s article in Psymposia, which poses that since MAPS is working to provide treatment to police and soldiers with PTSD, they are essentially in bed with the enemy, and only promoting organizations that create more violence, division, trauma, and PTSD, while treating the perpetrators instead of the victims.
Both articles are critical of MAPS but neglect to see the importance of diplomacy and working to see eye to eye with people in disagreement for the greater good- that yes, these tools can be used against people, but can also be used by people, with immense benefits. Joe reads a comment sent in by listener Danny McCraken, pointing out that “as the saying goes, ‘only Siths deal in absolutes.’” This leads to more discussion: when and how should ketamine be used for submission? Why do healthy, trained cops need to even get to that point? How much of this is just governments trying to make the costs of war cheaper? Why don’t more people see things from all sides?
Lastly, they remind us that on September 17th, 2 new rounds of (now CE-approved) Navigating Psychedelics will be starting up, and there is a new class for sale developed with Johanna Hilla-Maria Sopanen called “Imagination as Revelation,” which focuses on Jungian psychology and how it can be applied to understanding psychedelic experience.
Notable quotes
“I remember when we chatted with Dr. Katherine MacLean way, way back when we first got it rolling. Something that she said- ‘it’s almost like a birthright for us to try to prepare for death. And do we have to wait to have some sort of end-of-life illness, or can we start trying to prepare a little bit earlier?’ Just really awesome to see that these 4 patients will be able to have an experience and maybe discover things about themselves during their last time here. So congrats TheraPsil for making that work for these folks.” -Kyle
“From the anarchist perspective, this just helps governments, which are typically organizations that have monopolies on power (what anarchists are against, primarily). So any kind of government that’s using tools against people is bad, and these are tools that are being used against people. They’re also being used for people. It’s this weird dichotomy of: these things have such huge healing benefit for so many different types of people, and they can also be used to support things that are against people, like any tool. Like a knife or a gun- it can be used to save a life or take a life.” -Joe
“Is this what we want? Last episode, we talked a lot about decriminalization vs. legalization, and we didn’t really talk about how that contrasts with medicalization. Do we really want these powerful people in groups telling you when you can and cannot take these things? I think the answer is no. We don’t want that. We want autonomy. We want cognitive liberty. We want to not go to jail for this stuff. We want safe access.” -Joe
“Essentially, the critique is that MAPS is supporting cops (PTSD) and soldiers (PTSD), and as a result, MAPS is supporting violent organizations that are causing more PTSD, and treating the perpetrators vs. treating the victims. I understand why they would write this article, but I think it’s not done in good taste. I think it’s not necessarily aware of the broader implications of these things coming to market and being prescribable and healing a lot of people. But it is helpful in that it says, ‘Look, cops are doing bad stuff. Military has done bad stuff. Should we be supporting it?’ …How do we balance those two things? …I think MAPS is almost at the finish line, so I’m going to cheerlead for MAPS to finish [and] cross the line with MDMA, even though they’re kind of pandering to the militarized people who have a monopoly on violence, both inside and outside of the country.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to discuss recent topics in the news and analyze the ongoing debate of decriminalization vs. legalization.
They first discuss the story of LSD chemist William Leonard Pickard, who was released from prison on July 27th due mostly to his age, health status and risk for contracting Covid-19, and while it’s great that he’s out, how it changes nothing about the conspiracy surrounding his arrest (“Halperngate”) and the very questionable DEA claims of LSD availability decreasing by 95% after his imprisonment.
They then talk about Denver mushroom grower Kole Milner, who is facing up to 20 years in prison and a $1 million fine, and all the complications surrounding state or city legality vs. federal legality, and how anyone in this space should be extremely careful about what personal information they share publicly, regardless of any perceived legal safety.
This leads to a long discussion about decriminalization vs. legalization: the need for more conversation, what the model might look like for the US, what we can learn from Portugal, how Covid-related economic issues might influence things, the “my drug is better than your drug” issue with advertising, the problem with D.A.R.E.’s “scare you straight” model and the need for truth instead of manipulation, and how advertising and corporate profit incentives may come into play- does legality mean that companies will try to convince more people to use these powerful medicines irresponsibly?
Notable quotes
“It’s a false dichotomy to just say ‘decriminalization vs. legalization.’ As we say, decriminalization doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It can mean something for a municipality or a county or a state but it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the case for the feds. And as soon as you’re crossing state lines, that’s when they can be really into it. But realistically, the DEA seems to have plenty of power to do whatever they want.” -Joe
“I remember a few years ago, I started making this comment: ‘Oh cool, so you want it to stay illegal so you can have your heady, farm-to-table LSD. Cute, but that’s not really how it works and there’s plenty of people getting hurt as a result of not having these controls in place.’ …It just takes a couple high schoolers whipping up a shitty lab, or non-safety-oriented people just trying to make a quick buck to get a few people hurt. I want to be a libertarian, but I don’t necessarily trust people’s motives enough to fully be a libertarian. I feel like there needs to be incentive structures in place and regulation in place for a lot of things.” -Joe
“I remember them threatening us: ‘If you do this, we will come and arrest you.’ Like, whoa… What if you had somebody that was like, “Hey, psilocybin mushrooms- these were originally used in ceremonial contexts, they had these kinds of safety mechanisms built in place, and this is what’s going on, here are the risks and dangers, this is why you would want to do it in a situation like this, people are using it to find spiritual growth…” And I don’t know, is that more enticing to people? Like, “Oh. I’m really curious!” But at least when they would practice, hopefully, they’d be like, “Oh yea, remember, they told us to do it in this context” instead of being like “This is an illegal thing, we’re going to get arrested so let’s hide and do it in secrecy and not tell anybody about it because the police chief is going to kick down my door and arrest me and tell me I’m a bad person.” -Kyle
“Let’s just be fact-based. Like, ‘Ok, here are the laws, here’s where it comes from, here’s the history, here are the pluses and minuses, and here are the legal consequences at this point in time.’ I would just like the facts, you know? I don’t need to be manipulated. Because that’s all I felt it was- a manipulation of the truth and a manipulation of us. This is not science-based policy, and I think a lot of us now want science-based policy.” -Joe
In this episode, Joe speaks with Jacob Curtis, photojournalist at Denver7, a Denver-based ABC affiliate.
Curtis covered Alaska’s marijuana legalization in 2014, and as a photojournalist living in Denver, has been at the forefront of the Decriminalize Denver movement, even providing some of the first broadcasted footage of a local mushroom grow.
Curtis speaks about attending Psychedelic Club meetings and meeting James Casey, wanting to be the person to bring this story to the mainstream, and how these meetings and growing interest from the community were ultimately the incubators for the Decriminalize Denver, and later, Decriminalize Nature and #thankyouplantmedicine movements.
They also discuss the National Psychedelic Club (of which Joe reveals he is now on the Board of Directors), Edward Snowden and the dangers of speaking with the media, and advice for how to protect one’s identity, the Telluride Mushroom Festival and documentaries like “Dosed,” the Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, new startups in the field like MindMed, the Denver Mushroom Cooperative, MkUltra experiments in Denver, the importance of the #thankyouplantmedicine hashtag, and ultimately, how much Covid-19 has impacted the speed of progress in bringing legalization to the mainstream.
Notable quotes
On James Casey: “He was an awesome subject to sort of wrap the story around, and he was the perfect poster child because he had all the right ingredients- he was a veteran, really well-spoken, and just pretty straight-laced.”
“It is interesting to watch, how the media sort of responds and works with stories that are on the fringes and then move slowly towards the mainstream. It’s one of those things about our culture- it bends and shifts. The times change and what was radical 10 years ago is normal now.”
“We’ve had so many huge events that have taken place in our lifetimes that this kind of seems trivial… it’s not the highest priority anymore after we had the 2000 election, September 11th, the Iraq war. Those things [psychedelics] aren’t as high on the list of things that we are supposed to be worried about anymore.”
“I don’t think that we’re going to shy away from talking about psychedelics after a catastrophic virus collapses the world economy. It’ll be an easy topic.”
On #thankyouplantmedicine: “I don’t think there was necessarily a hashtag for drug policy reform that has been a conscious effort like that before, so it definitely gained some attention… If anything, it brought people together. If it didn’t get this big media splash, it definitely helped grow the network.”
Jacob is a photojournalist at Denver7, a Denver-based ABC affiliate. He has been at the forefront of the Decriminalize Denver movement, even providing some of the first broadcasted footage of a local mushroom grow.
In this episode, Joe interviews Tom and Sheri Eckert, organizers of the Oregon Psilocybin Therapy Initiative. The IP 34 is the bill that would legalize psilocybin therapy.
3 Key Points:
IP 34 asks the Oregon Health Authority to create a licensing system that will create a regulated program where Oregonians suffering from depression, anxiety, trauma and other challenges can see a licensed and trained facilitator to receive supervised psilocybin therapy.
IP 34 was written by licensed therapists in Oregon along with the country’s leading advocates in the field. It is supported by healthcare professionals, treatment providers, veterans’ groups and community leaders across the state.
There has been a multitude of studies from leading medical research institutions such as Johns Hopkins, UCLA, and NYU showing that psilocybin therapy works.
Show Notes
About
Tom and Sheri began their interest in psilocybin research about 5 years ago when they read an article in The New Yorker by Michal Pollan
They realized how powerful psilocybin was for clinical work
They are both therapists, and were inspired to find out if there was a way to create a modality that allowed them to provide psilocybin therapy to help their clients
Psilocybin Assisted Psychotherapy
Psychotherapy is supposed to be experiential, the breakthrough is where the change happens
Sheri says that psilocybin therapy gets all parts of the brain in communication together
“The more intense the mystical experience the more clinical outcomes that are achieved” – Tom
Ballot Initiative
They started in 2015
They wanted the breakthrough studies and the research proving low risks to work for them
The psychedelic community was very helpful
They went through rotations with the way the initiative was written
They like the therapy model, its safe, careful and mindful
Clause
Joe asks about a Supremacy Clause, where the state supersedes local districts
This initiative does not get in the way of any other initiative
There are angles on all different types of drug policy reform
There is nothing in the IP34 that blocks any other initiative like decriminalization
We are all a part of the big picture, we all need to work together
GMP Psilocybin
They wanted to keep this in the frame of non-commercialization
Their goal with this is not about money, it’s really about the healing
“We are trying to move forward a healing modality to help people, we are trying to legalize psilocybin assisted psychotherapy” – Tom
There is a part in the initiative that says measures will have to be taken to make sure the psilocybin is ‘food grade’ standard or in general just clean and safe
As husband-and-wife founders of the Oregon Psilocybin Society (OPS) and authors of the Psilocybin Service Initiative (PSI), Tom and Sheri Eckert have set in motion a historic campaign to legalize Psilocybin Services, also known as Psilocybin Assisted Therapy, in their home state of Oregon. A growing number of Oregonians are getting behind the idea, largely in response to the latest science. The Eckerts, with a growing army of volunteers, are spreading a truth held increasingly self-evident: that the psilocybin experience, when facilitated under safe and supportive conditions, can be a life-changing gift.In addition to their activism, the Eckert’s own and operate “Innerwork” – a private psychotherapy practice serving the Portland metro area. Included in their catalog of services is their groundbreaking “Better Man” program, which is shown to neutralize intimate partner and family violence. Sheri has been awarded a Cosmic Sister Women of the Psychedelic Renaissance in support of her presentation at the Spirit Plant Medicine conference.
In this episode, Joe interviews Amanda Feilding, Founder and Director of The Beckley Foundation. In the show, they cover topics on psychedelic research, policy work, regulation, and the benefits of psychedelics in a time of crisis.
3 Key Points:
The Beckley Foundation pioneers psychedelic research to drive evidence-based drug policy reform, founded and directed by Amanda Feilding as a UK-based think-tank and NGO.
There is some interesting research happening around LSD expanding the neuroplasticity of the mind and increasing neurogenesis.
We are in the midst of a mental health crisis, especially in the West, and psychedelics may be helpful in improving mental health.
Show Notes
The Beckley Foundation
Amanda says she felt alone for a long time, they were taking a scientific approach, and it was much too serious for the underground
The Beckley Foundation is doing policy work, medical work, scientific work, etc
Amanda has a passion for science, but felt a social responsibility to do the policy work
It’s a very destructive work with ‘drugs’, because they are all under the same umbrella, but we psychedelic enthusiasts know, that psychedelics are beneficial and different than other drugs
Joe mentions he always thought how crazy LSD sentencing is, in some places it is longer than murder charges
“The ego is really a mirror of the government, and it can be much too restrictive and damaging” – Amanda
LSD
LSD increases cognitive function by expanding the networks of integrative centers in the brain
Amanda thinks that LSD is better at increasing cognition than mushrooms
She says they are doing exciting work with LSD and how it expands neuroplasticity of the mind, and how it increases neurogenesis
She thinks we haven’t really even scratched the surface of exploring the benefits of these compounds
Joe says he is hearing about a lot of athletes using LSD as a performance enhancing drug
Neuroplasticity is like when the brain becomes hot metal and it can adapt and change
Crisis
We have a horrible mental health crisis in the west, 1 in 3 teenage girls are depressed
Out of all death causes in the US, air pollution is one of the largest
“Our society needs a paradigm shift” – Amanda
Amanda says that she doesn’t believe that all people need to take psychedelics, but that they can be very beneficial
Regulation
Joe says he would love to see regulation everywhere
The cause of most drug harms are prohibition
Portugal and Switzerland are great models for boosting public service
Recognizing the potential benefits helps (starting with medical but not stopping there)
Final Thoughts
We are all moving in the right direction
The spreading of knowledge and education is the right path
The intuitive gains are the main benefits of these altered states of consciousness
Amanda Feilding has been called the ‘hidden hand’ behind the renaissance of psychedelic science, and her contribution to global drug policy reform has also been pivotal and widely acknowledged. Amanda was first introduced to LSD in the mid-1960s, at the height of the first wave of scientific research into psychedelics. Impressed by its capacity to initiate mystical states of consciousness and heighten creativity, she quickly recognised its transformative and therapeutic power. Inspired by her experiences, she began studying the mechanisms underlying the effects of psychedelic substances and dedicated herself to exploring ways of harnessing their potential to cure sickness and enhance wellbeing. In 1996, Amanda set up The Foundation to Further Consciousness, changing its name to the Beckley Foundation in 1998.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk about current topics in the news including MindMed, psilocybin synthesis, treating climate grief with psychedelics, psychedelic decriminalization and more.
MindMed is a psychedelic Pharmaceutical company that is exploring LSD and patenting anything they find during the research
Joe comments and says that organizations like Zendo are able to do optimal work and we don’t necessarily need a Pharma company to help in recreational/festival settings
But in a clinical setting, this is more necessary
“Are these big companies coming into the space as allies are not?” – Joe
Joe says he thinks they are part of the ecosystem, for better or worse
Joe says, imagine if drugs were legal, they would be so much safer
Kyle questions what legalization would look like not in a capitalistic market
There is a lot of reason why people choose not to play in commodified markets
“How do we know what is true? How do we know what is helpful for us?” – Joe
Joe says lets not have a quick easy answer
“It’s infeasible and way too expensive to extract psilocybin from magic mushrooms and the best chemical synthesis methods require expensive and difficult-to-source starting substrates” – a quote from the article
If COVID wasn’t a thing currently, it looks like decrim would happen in the belly of the beast, in D.C.
Despite the public health crisis, its looks like citizens want to reassess entheogenic use
“When there is hardship, creativity seems to spike” – Joe
Joe says to check out the microdose VR by Android Jones
About Kyle
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Mike Margolies of Psychedelic Seminars. In the show, they cover topics including guests and conversations from the Psychedelic Seminars, the decriminalization of all drugs, and the importance of allowing psychedelic use to be a part of training therapists for psychedelic therapy.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic Seminars is an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics.
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but the conversation on decriminalization of all drugs is rare, which is what’s really important.
Some companies (MAPS for example) allow the option to use MDMA as a part of their therapist training program while other companies who are training therapists for psilocybin therapy, don’t have the option to use it. This leaves the question, “Should the psychedelic experience be part of the psychedelic therapy training?”
The talks were on microdosing and the unknowns of microdosing
Just because there is no real harms taking a large dose of LSD, doesn’t mean there aren’t any harms taking a low (micro) dose of LSD frequently
Mike thinks that the term Jim Fadiman uses is its ‘sub-perceptual’, in that you have a noticeable effect on the mood, but no other way of noticing it
Decriminalization
Drug Policy tends to stay in the realm of psychedelics only
There are large topics of decriminalizing psilocybin or the movements for ‘decriminalize nature’, but no one likes to talk about the decriminalization of all drugs, which is what’s really important
Poppy is not considered in decriminalize nature, which is selective nature decriminalization
It’s not a real decriminalization, it’s just a low priority for law enforcement
He’s been asking in his conversations, opinions on decriminalizing all drugs
Different drugs have different risk profiles
“Just because you’re not using criminal justice as your mechanism for reducing risks of drugs, doesn’t mean you do nothing. The last thing we want to do is add criminalization to those who are already suffering, this is why we should decriminalize all drugs” – Mike
Laws should be written in terms of what are you not allowed to do, not what you’re allowed to do
He is allowed to walk down the sidewalk, but not punch someone he walks past, but the law shouldn’t be to get a license for walking down the street so long as you don’t punch someone
The communities that are marginalized continue to be marginalized by the drug war
Psychedelic Therapy and Experience with Use
With MAPS, there is an option to do MDMA as a part of the training
With psilocybin, at least with Compass Pathways, there is not an option to use psilocybin. Mike says that’s a huge issue
When you scale treatment, there is the risk of losing the quality of care
“We aren’t going to solve the problems of our future by mass distributing psychedelics” – Mike
The fact that we have such mass amounts of widespread depression, means that we have a deeply ingrained systemic issue at hand
Psychedelics treat the symptoms, but we still need to fix the underlying cause
“If you are distributing psychedelics, but still exacerbating the same underlying issues, you now have the problem and solution in the same hefty package” – Mike
“Psychedelic experience is intrinsically something spiritual. How can you guide someone in spiritual practice if you haven’t experienced it yourself?” – Mike
“Inducing a state intentionally, and guiding someone through a process, its completely unethical to guide someone through a spiritual process that you haven’t been through yourself.” – Mike
New Economy
Burning man is not a barter economy, it’s a gift economy, where things are given without an expectation of receiving something in return
We are far from that economy
What if we had a world where instead of trying to extract value, we were trying to create value?
Since 2015, Mark has worked full-time in the psychedelic community, starting and contributing to a number of projects as an event and media producer, connector, and advisor. He is the Founder of Psychedelic Seminars, an educational conversation series deepening awareness of the benefits, risks, and complexities of psychedelics. On the PsychSems stage, he has interviewed a range of leaders including bestselling author Michael Pollan, Dr. James Fadiman and Ayelet Waldman on microdosing, and therapeutic ketamine expert Dr. Raquel Bennett. He started the project in 2015 after returning to his home city of Baltimore to build community for open and honest conversations about psychedelics. The project now operates primarily out of the San Francisco Bay Area and livestreams globally. Through his psychedelic community work in Baltimore, he seeded the Baltimore Psychedelic Society. He has sparked and mentored similar Psychedelic Societies around the world from Washington DC to San Francisco to Portugal. He helped start the Global Psychedelic Network to connect them.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and chat with Veronica Hernandez and Larry Norris of Decriminalize Nature Oakland. Decriminalize Nature is an educational campaign to inform Oakland residents about the value of entheogenic plants and fungi and propose a resolution to decriminalize our relationship to nature, which just recently had success in doing so.
3 Key Points:
Decriminalize Nature Oakland is a campaign that just recently found success in decriminalizing psilocybin mushrooms as well as other psychedelic compounds naturally derived from plants or fungi, such as ayahuasca, peyote and DMT.
The mission behind Decriminalize Nature is to improve human health and well-being by decriminalizing and expanding access to entheogenic plants and fungi through political and community organizing, education and advocacy.
These decriminalization initiatives are gaining traction across many cities in the US. It’s about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there, to provide access to people everywhere.
Veronica is a clinical psychologist licensed in Peru
She has been working in the US as a Social Worker Clinician
She has been combining plant medicines and spirituality back into psychology
She is currently finishing her PhD at CIIS
About Larry
He is in the same PhD program as Veronica
Him and Veronica are the team that created ERIE
In between they have taken the time to run Decriminalize Nature Oakland
Decriminalize Nature
In this initiative, they had to convince 8 people of city council to agree to this, in comparison to the Denver Initiative, where they needed thousands of ballot signatures
This bill included naturally occurring psychedelic compounds, not just mushrooms
Larry mentions they used the word entheogen instead of psychedelic, as a way to create new conversation around the plant medicines a reduce the stigma
A Win for Plant Medicine
From where Veronica comes from, Ayahuasca and other plant medicines are national patrimony, state and church can’t touch them
To be able to bring these to a place where it’s considered schedule 1, Veronica is super inspired about being able to make this happen
Right now these plants are in a tug of war between money interest of the tax side and the government, and the other side of corporate interest
The goal now is to educate people on what these plants do, safe practices and develop places and services to hold the space and make these plants available to people
It’s about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there
Starting city by city is typically easier to initiate, to then have a better hold on direct action and education afterward to be able to duplicate on the state level
They have had 50 different cities from 30 different states reach out to make this happen in their communities
Veronica says that her first time trying San Pedro, she had felt an immediate connection to the plants
It became her goal to combine conventional medicine with plant medicines and make it available to everyone
“To be in touch with something bigger than yourself is one of the most important things” – Veronica
Sustainability
Although there was no verbiage in the bill, they are being mindful about sustainability of the plants when making them more available with decriminalization
Synthesis is a better idea for ibogaine, 5-MEO-DMT and other compounds that are naturally derived but also pose a risk to their sustainability with decriminalization
The landscape just doesn’t allow for synthesis right now, so we start at decriminalization and then hopefully open doors to the route of synthesis to aid in the sustainability of these substances and resources
Larry’s advice is that instead of spending your money and taking a trip to Denver or Oakland, to stay home and organize this is your own community because it can actually happen
It starts now and it starts with education
Joe says the most major push-back received in Denver for the decriminalization was the threat of people driving on mushrooms
Veronica Hernandez, is a clinical psychologist and shamanic practitioner from Peru. Since 2006 she has been trained on shamanic facilitation. She received her clinical training at the Institute of Rational-Emotive Therapy, New York, under the supervision of Dr. Albert Ellis. She was assistant professor at the Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia and research assistant at the Hospital Psiquiátrico Noguchi de Lima (Peru). In the United States, she worked as a Social Services Clinician at John Muir Health Hospital’s Inpatient Psychiatric Adolescent Unit, California. Currently she is completing her doctoral degree at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS), San Francisco, where she is carrying out research on the healing and transformative benefits of entheogens, especially Ayahuasca.
About Larry
Larry Norris, MA, PhD Candidate is the co-founder and executive director of ERIE (Entheogenic Research, Integration, and Education) 501(c)(3), a group dedicated to the development of entheogenic research and integration models. Larry is also a co-founder and on the Board of Decriminalize Nature Oakland and helped to co-author the resolution which received an unanimous decision from Oakland City Council. Beginning his studies in cognitive science as an undergrad at the University of Michigan, he is now a PhD candidate in the East-West Psychology department at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco. His dissertation reviews archived ayahuasca experiences to identify transformational archetypes that induce insights hidden within the experiences. As adjunct faculty at CIIS, Larry taught a graduate course called Entheogenic Education: Contemporary Perspectives on Ancient Plant Wisdom in order to discuss the concept of entheogens as educational teachers and cognitive tools. He was also an adjunct faculty at John F. Kennedy University teaching a class titled Paradigms of Consciousness. A dedicated activist and proponent of cognitive liberty, Larry’s efforts are a contribution to not only change the Western legal status of these powerful plants, fungus, and compounds, but also to emphasize the potential sacred nature of entheogens given the right set and setting.
In this episode, Joe records with Sean McAllister, an attorney who helped advise Decriminalize Denver. During this special, extra episode, Sean helps us understand the language in the recent bill for Mushroom Decriminalization in Denver, CO.
3 Key Points:
Recently, Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization passed on the ballot in Denver, CO.
Psilocybin mushrooms have not been made legal, they have simply been decriminalized. This means that Denver has the lowest law enforcement priority around psilocybin and that no money can be used to criminalize this behavior.
Decriminalization of Psilocybin in Denver is a big step toward changing the stigma around psychedelics. But we need to be careful, decriminalization is just a tiny step in the right direction and we need to be respectful and responsible with this initiative.
On May 8th, the city of Denver, Colorado voted yes on I-301, which decriminalizes the possession and use of Psilocybin-containing mushrooms. The official results will be certified on May 16th. As of May 9th – the unofficial results are – yes (50.6%) and no (49.4%).
I-301 decriminalizes adult (21 years or older) possession and use of Psilocybin mushrooms – making these offenses the lowest priority for law enforcement. This initiative also prohibits law enforcement to spend money and resources enforcing arresting adults with possession of mushrooms.
Sean’s Role in the Mushroom Decriminalization in Denver, CO
Sean is an Attorney with McAllister Garfield Law Firm in Denver
He has done a lot with cannabis law since 2005
He heard about the Mushroom Decriminalization campaign and began working with them
His role started in January to help the team understand what it would look like if the bill passed and his role definitely continues going forward now that it has passed
What the Vote Means
“Decriminalize” means just that
Psilocybin mushrooms have not been made legal, they have simply been decriminalized
“You should never be arrested for putting something in your body that grows naturally in nature.” – Sean
This means that Denver has the lowest law enforcement priority around Psilocybin
It’s not legal, it’s not regulated
This bill means that a person cannot be imprisoned for possession and cultivation for personal possession amounts
The city is not supposed to spend any money to criminalize this behavior
You can grow them to eat them yourself, but you can’t grow them to sell them
This also doesn’t mean that groups can host events and ‘give out’ mushrooms as a gift in return for a donation, this is not good behavior for this initiative
This initiative is simply a first step at looking at mushrooms in a better light and reducing the stigma
For the benefit of this bill passing, we have to be careful about amounts, the smaller the amount of mushrooms the better
There isn’t an amount listed in the bill to distinguish between personal use and intent to sell
The city has to establish a review commission
What this commission is supposed to do is track the public safety impact, use, criminal justice impact, etc
We hope and guess that psilocybin will not impact any of these, just like how marijuana did not impact anything for the worse when it was decriminalized
Once the city sees the results, they won’t have so much stigma about it, and Denver will lead the way for the state and the rest of the nation for sensible drug policy
Political Pushback
The typical response was “we already legalized marijuana, let’s not jump to something else”
Sean thinks this gives Denver an amazing reputation, that it understands therapeutic ability and research and no tolerance for the drug war
“We need a system that addresses public safety concerns but maintains as much personal liberty as possible on these topics” – Sean
Other Initiatives
Sean is a part of Chacruna, based in San Francisco
Oakland is attempting to Decriminalize Nature, which by nature means all naturally occurring substances
They aren’t on a ballot, they are looking to convince city council to agree with it and accept it
California attempted to raise signatures to be on the ballot in the 2018 election but it failed to get on the ballot
Oregon is now collecting signatures to get on the ballot at the state level in 2020
Oregon’s model is for medicalization, Sean expresses concern for a purely medical model
Between big pharma and quiet equity firms, they want to monetize on psychedelics like they did with marijuana, and that’s what we risk with medicalization
Psychedelic Liberty Summit in 2020 in the Bay Area will be to talk about the rights and wrongs around psychedelic initiatives
Final Thoughts
Sean mentions a possible system that revolves around a licensing structure
Similar to how we get a drivers license; we practice, we take tests, etc.
For psychedelics, we would need to learn the effects, harm reduction techniques, take tests to verify our knowledge, etc and receive a license that allows us to use psychedelics freely
If we abuse psychedelics and use them improperly, then we would get our license taken away, suspended, etc.
Overall, after this initiative passing, we have to be careful we don’t ruin this victory with poor behavior
Let’s just do what we’re doing respectfully, responsibly, and to ourselves
Sean T. McAllister is one of the nation’s leading cannabis business attorneys, licensed to practice law in both Colorado and California. Sean’s legal work focuses on the complex interplay between corporate law and state cannabis regulatory structures and federal law. Sean is a recognized leader in the cannabis industry. In 2004, he founded Sensible Colorado, which worked on all of the ballot initiatives in Colorado that culminated in recreational cannabis legalization in 2012.
On May 8th, the city of Denver, Colorado voted yes on I-301, which decriminalizes the possession and use of psilocybin-containing mushrooms. The official results will be certified on May 16th. As of May 9th – the unofficial results are – yes (50.6%) and no (49.4%).
I-301 decriminalizes adult (21 years or older) possession and use of Psilocybin mushrooms – making these offenses the lowest priority for law enforcement. This initiative also prohibits law enforcement to spend money and resources enforcing arresting adults with possession of mushrooms.
Joe Moore recorded with Sean McCallister who is an attorney who helped advise Decriminalize Denver. If you want to learn about what decriminalization in Denver is really all about – tune in here. Expect to hear more from Sean in the future.
Sean T. McAllister is one of the nation’s leading cannabis business attorneys, licensed to practice law in both Colorado and California. Sean’s legal work focuses on the complex interplay between corporate law and state cannabis regulatory structures and federal law. Sean is a recognized leader in the cannabis industry. In 2004, he founded Sensible Colorado, which worked on all of the ballot initiatives in Colorado that culminated in recreational cannabis legalization in 2012.
In this episode, Joe gets on the mic to chat about some current events in the psychedelic space such as the recent passing of psychedelic icon Ralph Metzner, the Psilocybin decriminalization initiatives in Denver and now Oakland, and psychedelic use in the Military.
3 Key Points:
Psychedelic Icon, Ralph Metzner passed away on March 14th, 2019. He had a remarkable career and published a ton of books around psychedelics in his time.
A recent study found that a single dose of Psilocybin can enhance creative thinking and empathy for up to 7 days after use.
Activists are planning an initiative to decriminalize Psilocybin in Oakland. Denver will vote on decriminalization on the May 7th ballot.
Joe mentions conversation he had with a friend of the show
He mentioned that Ayahuasca sometimes has mold on it
Ayahuasca is labor intensive to make, so they make it once and then it grows mold
Then people come and drink the mold infested Aya and it can make a person more sick than they need to be
“If you have the option to be more safe, should you be?”
If we have less harm and less deaths in the drug world over time, in the next 5 or 6 years we are going to see huge benefits with these substances
Staying out of jail, not dying, and by being safer with drugs we have more of a chance to influence policy and make these substances and drug checking more available for the future culture
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In this episode, Joe sits down with Kevin Matthews, Campaign Manager of Decriminalize Denver, the group looking to decriminalize magic mushrooms. During the show, they cover topics such as the Right to Try Act, therapeutic success and what it might look like to have Psilocybin decriminalized in Denver.
3 Key Points:
Decriminalize Denver’s efforts are aimed to decriminalize Psilocybin Mushrooms in the city of Denver, CO., and are currently getting signatures to be on the May 2019 ballot.
The Federal Right to Try Act allows a person with a life-threatening illness to use any substance that has passed phase one clinical trials.
There is so much research and data on the benefits of Psilocybin Mushrooms, and being in an age of social media sharing, people are waking up to the idea of mushroom decriminalization.
Kevin is a part of the group, Decriminalize Denver
The group submitted the ballot initiative called the Denver Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization Initiative and they are getting signatures to make the May 2019 ballot
Kevin became interested in mushrooms after leaving as a Cadet at the US Military Academy due to major depression
He was interested in Psilocybin Mushrooms impact on depression
Talking Publicly about Psilocybin Use
“Self-healing from psychedelics” is something most people want to be careful talking about
Does it uninspire therapists?
Does it ruin the medical model?
Kevin states that people are afraid to talk about it because they are a schedule 1 substance
Those who are willing to take the risk to talk about it are because they believe that mushrooms might have the best impact on them
Right to Try Act
Kevin knows someone with PTSD and tumors who is prescribed to Psilocybin under the Federal Right to Try Act
Anyone who has a life-threatening illness can use any substance that has passed phase one under clinical trials
His psychiatrist said that the psilocybin has been nothing short of miraculous in its effects
He takes 1.5-2 grams of dried mushrooms every 7-10 days
It puts him in control of his own protocol
Trump just signed the Federal Right to Try Act this summer, Colorado has had their own since 2014
Generational Mushroom Use
Joe says that the media landscape has really changed in the past few years and so much more research and information is becoming accessible to everyone
Veterans for Natural Rights group is supporting this mushroom movement
After the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, a lot of people went underground with their use
30 million people in the country have used psychedelics in the last decade
More young people now are using psychedelics than the same age group used psychedelics in the 60’s
Decriminalize Denver
The goal of the group is to decriminalize the personal use and personal possession of Psilocybin mushrooms, including the propagation of mushrooms for personal use
“Our main goal with this is to keep individuals out of prison, help our vets, and help our loved ones who suffer from these traumas” – Kevin
Colorado Always Making Progress
Right now, Colorado state legislature is looking at safe injection sites and different kinds of penalty such as rehab instead of incarceration
Joe says Denver is a kind of microcosm of the whole nation, it has an interest in both sides of an issue, instead of just one sided
“Mushrooms help, in a very profound way. And opening that door is the first step to changing people’s minds, both metaphorically and physically.” – Kevin
The medical applications of Psilocybin are huge such as for a stutter, autoimmune issues, anxiety and depression
Talking about Psilocybin
Kevin says you can’t have a conversation without two opposing sides
He is excited for when the conversation starts because there is a ton of points on why Psilocybin is proven to be effective
John’s Hopkins said that Psilocybin should at a minimum be a Schedule 4 (same level as prescription sleep aids) source
Schedule 1 means “no medical value and high risk of abuse”
From the clinical research and population studies alone on Psilocybin, we know that’s false
Decriminalize Denver’s Current Focus
Getting all 5,000 signatures (2,000 so far) by January 7th
Coalition building, doing some fundraising
Getting volunteers activated
After getting all the signatures, then they will be on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the campaign and outreach starts
Using Psilocybin for Therapy
Joe brings up a story about his teacher Lenny Gibson who had multiple bouts of cancer and is a psychedelic scholar. Lenny was incredibly mad at Tim Leary because he was in cancer support groups and imagines how many more options cancer patients would have for pain if drugs were not made illegal
Looking at decreasing suffering, it would be special for the Denver population to find relief in anxiety and depression before going into a life-threatening surgery, etc.
If this turns into a regulatory medical paradigm, licensure is important
How do we create the paradigm to open the work in a professional therapeutic manner?
Grand Rounds
Doctors will get together around a case study and share it within the medical community
It’s a way to share and practice case studies organically and internally
With social media alone 30,000 people can be reached a month
Typing in to Google “benefits of mushrooms” brings up a ton of research
When people hear about John Hopkins, NYU, Harvard, UCLA Medical Center, and all of these companies that have already been doing the research they become more interested
It takes the breaking up of a family after prison time of a drug offense, 7 generations to recover
Joe knows of a case where someone in Colorado who got busted for having mushrooms only ended up serving 2 weeks and didn’t get a felony for it
In 2005 New Mexico Court of Appeal said that cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms does not qualify as the manufacture of a controlled substance, as long as they aren’t dried
Mushrooms are Beneficial, Not Harmful
How do we ruin fewer lives by legalizing mushrooms and keeping people out from behind bars?
Mushrooms can put you in touch with yourself and help connect yourself to others
Feedback
Most of the responses are, “Hell yeah I’m going to sign this!” or “This saved my life”
Kevin says when someone says no, it’s all about educating them
They had 45% support it and 20% maybes
Working with the City
The bill would include a Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, a city level committee made up of health professionals, Police, Denver Sheriff’s office, city attorneys, etc
Final Thoughts
Kevin wants as many people as possible willing to participate to volunteer
They will be starting public Q&A twice a month (and live streaming them)
Check out our online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Kevin
Kevin Matthews is leading the decriminalization of Psilocybin mushrooms in Denver, Colorado. He and his group of dedicated volunteers are currently collecting signatures to make the May 2019 Ballot.
Today in the show, Joe talks to Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente, founding members of Kosmicare, a drug testing, and harm reduction service at the Portugal Festival, Boom. Joe talks to Maria and Helena on their personal backgrounds, how they got into Boom, research on recreational use, what harm reduction looks like, and what populations are underserved. Drug use is decriminalized in Portugal, and the focus of risk minimization has been useful in getting the population served versus putting people in prison.
3 Key Points:
Kosmicare is a harm reduction and psychedelic emergency service starting at Boom music festival in Portugal. Working to support other events in Europe.
Boom is in Portugal, where drugs are decriminalized and drug testing is legal. Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has had.
The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, and HIV infection. Other countries like the US should consider a drug reform with the current opioid crisis.
Kosmicare is a non-profit organization that looks to transform nightlife culture through humanistic, comprehensive and evidence-based policies and interventions
They work toward a world where drugs can be used with liberty and wisdom
Making festivals safe in Europe
About Maria
Psychologist, graduated in 1999 at University of Porto
She started working in the field of problematic drug use
Growing up in a difficult neighborhood was her purpose for getting into studying psychology and drug use
She began focusing on recreational use
Her younger brother was into the Electronic Dance scene and positioning himself with using substances
She was interested in studying other motivations to use drugs than just using drugs to feed a problem
She heard an announcement by MAPS in 2008 recruiting volunteers to do work in psychedelic emergency at Boom
It was the perfect match considering her interest in psychology and drug use in recreational environments
About Helena
Helena is a Psychologist who was interested in drug use
She wanted to have field experience, and she volunteered in a needle exchange program
She began working for a harm reduction project to work in recreational settings that needed volunteers
She became interested in the potential that drug checking has in the harm reduction strategy
They are working toward a ‘drop-in’ where people can show up to a permanent space for drug checking and harm reduction
The Numbers
Over 20,000 people showed up to Kosmicare’s information session
This year for the first time, Kosmicare had an HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography) to identify LSD and pills
They tested over 700 drug samples in 6 days
Maria says half of the Boom population gets in contact with Kosmicare
They serve 1% of the Boom population for psychedelic emergency (about 350 cases out of 35,000 attendees)
The episodes usually have to do with psycho-spiritual situations versus just an emergency about the drug taken
Psychedelic Emergencies
Boom is a transformational festival that hosts attendees from over 50 countries
Boom is different from Burning Man in that Boom is in Portugal which has a much more legal framework which helps with the services that can be offered
Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has
Joe states that there are numbers of regulatory police at Burning Man
Kosmicare is included in the entire setup of Boom, which helps reduce the number of scenarios that would cause an emergency at the festival, such as providing shaded areas all over
It gets up to 43 degrees Celcius (108 Fahrenheit)
But there is a water element so people can refresh themselves
In the largest dance areas at the festival, they included medical emergency Teepees so attendees could be helped as quickly as possible
Recreational Drug Use
They did a survey on recreational drug use and most of the respondents said they use drugs in a beneficial way that doesn’t interrupt their lives in a bad way
Similarly with Boom attendees, most of them want to use harm reduction techniques so they have positive experiences and don’t develop problems with their drug use
Mat Southwell “drug users are calculated risk takers”
“The legal framework has a terrible influence on people’s relationship with drugs” – Helena
Lessons Learned
Maria says they have had many groundbreaking challenges
In 2016 they had someone die on them while having a psychedelic emergency
It made her really question why she was doing this
Her first impression was that she was doing this work to save the inexperienced user
She was caught off guard by the person who died because they were an experienced user and didn’t taking unadulterated substances
“People may go over the top for a wide variety of reasons, it was the biggest lesson I learned working for the Psychedelic Emergency services” – Maria
It’s hard to determine people’s ability to calculate risks
If the person had collapsed in front of an urban hospital in the city, the Hospital couldn’t have done anything more than what they did at Kosmicare
Collaborations
Kosmicare has a collaborative relationship with Zendo
MAPS was hired by Boom to direct the harm reduction services
They use a lot of Stan Grof techniques for transpersonal psychology
They are partnered with many other organizations in Europe that are trying to deliver the same type of psychedelic emergency and harm reduction services
The Risks of Drug Policy
Joe points out that there are so many festivals happening without these services
The Rave Act prevents companies from attending festivals because it “harbors” drug use
In Portugal, the fact that drug use is decriminalized, it opened up a legal framework around harm reduction
Portugal is one of the few countries where drug checking is allowed by law
The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, HIV infection, tuberculosis and other things
Helena says that the US should rethink their drug policy considering the opioid epidemic
In Portugal, there were only 12 overdose cases with heroin and opioids
Portugal before the Drug Policy
In the 80’s, there was a heroin epidemic, which had an epidemic of high infection rates and HIV. This motivated the policy change
It was evident that prohibition was not working
Usually when it affects only poor people, no one cares, but the fentanyl crisis is affecting all sorts of populations
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Maria
Maria Carmo Carvalho, Kosmicare Manager, Boom Festival, Portugal, is a Lecturer at the Faculty of Education and Psychology at the Catholic University of Portugal. She researches if the field of psychoactive substance use and has completed a MSc and a PhD at the University of Porto on the field of psychoactive substance use, youth and recreational environments. She is Vice-President of ICEERS and Kosmicare Boom Festival manager since 2012.
About Helena
Helena Valente began working with people that use drugs in 2004, focusing in nightlife settings. Helena has a vast experience in coordinating national and European projects in the drug field. At the moment she is a researcher and PhD. Candidate at the Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences of the Porto University and founding member of Kosmicare Association.
In this episode, Joe Moore interviews Mike from the podcast “End of the Road“. Its a great podcast covering psychedelic and spiritual topics that are probably of interest to you. Mike is an attorney and he joins us to share some insights around patent law in the psychedelic space. Kyle and Joe were even feature on the show a few months back.
Disclaimer – This interview is for informational purposes only, not for obtaining legal advice. “Opinions expressed by me, at my own only, and not my firms.”
3 Key Points:
Patent law is worth understanding and shouldn’t be ignored in our current psychedelic era.
It can be used to help protect inventions and innovations that took time and money to develop.
Patents aren’t all bad. They can help protect the small guy as well and large corporations.
1986 Boston College Law review article (source) Warren Miller, scientist and entrepreneur obtained a patent on a strain of ayahuasca vine.
400 indigenous tribes challenged the validity of the patent. Controversy over the patent created hostility between Ecuador and US.
Patent criteria
A patent must be a process, machine, or manufacture or composition of matter. A patent does not depend on whether a composition of matter is living or non-living, but rather that it is altered and is not a naturally occurring substance.
Taking a plant from South America, and not altering it should not receive a patent.
Organizations owning a genome?
Transgenic modification – able to be patented
Plant patent – specific category
Psilocybin
Compass pathways – applied for a patent for growing psilocybin – “good manufacturing practice” global standard for manufacturing pharmaceuticals, know your dose each time, etc
Compass Pathways applied for a British patent called the “Preparation for Psilocybin”
FDA requires that you meet certain standards when you test a product for purity.
Trying to patent a pure form of psilocybin. “Non naturally occurring”
Using the patent as justification to cover the cost for FDA trials.
Group of scientists who created a statement on open practice – 4 point manifesto. (Ram Dass supports it) Trying to make it non-capitalistic – so no one can create a monopoly on it.
Full rights can bring the risk of unfair pricing moves
Previous groups have decades of open sharing. Compass does not have the same origins
Scare – Compass marks up psilocybin. Could be unethical things happening within Compass, but not much journalism done here yet.
Once a patent is made, harder to make a similar patent.
Broad-based patents make it harder to create further patents down the line since they have to be novel or significantly different and precisely new
The process Compass is trying to patent is not the only way to produce GMP psilocybin, there are many other ways.
May pull a move that gives them special access to administer
Paul Stamets – psilocybin patent application
Using psilocybin and niacin for neural regeneration – a neural regenerated composition based upon constituents isolated from or contained within mushroom fruit bodies or psilocybin or the corresponding synthetic molecules combined with niacin
Google patents – US PTO 154914503 filing date April 23, 2017, another in 2018
Claims – Mushrooms have improved memory, cognition, motor skills, complex computer coding challenges, hearing, sensory, vision, learning, promote neurogenesis. Therapeutic applications of psilocybin.
A broad patent that covers a large variety of application for using psilocybin therapeutically, not approved yet.
Probably would capitalize on the patent. Keen for data sharing and being public with his work.
Previous patent: Pesticide replacement – fungi that infects ants and brings them back to their homes. More effective than pesticide.
Good he applied for a patent – it would mean that it wouldn’t block people from accessing it or developing their own
Andrew Chadeayne – inventor and patent attorney
Has psilocybin patent update blog
Applied for patents in the psilocybin space
Monopoly law
If there is a popular drug used in the market, a drug company wanting to capitalize – it will cover all their bases with a patent
Smoking – route of administration dosing precision standard is 30%, their dose delivery is at 70%
Tel Aviv Israel – producing the lowest price per gram in the world of cannabis
All cannabis being researched in the country must come from one specific facility – set the US back
German patent – synthetic ayahuasca DE201610014603
Open source model
Common law copyright and trademark protection
Laws changed in 2013 – first to file the patent first, gets the invention
Important to get patent protection early in the process
Provisional, and non-provisional patent. Provisional gives a year grace period to file non-provisional without all of the details of the full application.
Infusion pump technology – method of delivery (ex. DMT) controls the level of a substance in the blood for an undefined, extended period of time.
Insulin pumps – monitor and deliver
Raspberry pie devices – can buy a computer and program it to do specific functions. Ex. automated brewing system with temp controls.
DMTx – same computer could be programmed and applied to control the levels of DMT in the bloodstream
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
About Mike
Exploring the Horizons we never touch, because we are already there….with Michael. Mike is a patent lawyer with a long history in trial law. He has a great podcast that you should check out – End of the Road
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Stefanie Jones, the Director of Audience Development at the Drug Policy Alliance.
There are risks and benefits to all drug use.
Ultimately, you don’t want your teenager to use drugs, but if they do, you want to keep them safe and give them the right information.
The festival community needs to be so much more aware of opioid overdose and drug checking.
Show Notes
About Stefanie Jones
In her role, she oversees communication and outreach to specific communities on drug use and drug policy topics.
Personally runs the DPA music fan program.
She works on the Safer Partying program which has four goals:
Ending stigma against people who use drugs at festivals, concerts, and clubs.
Amending the illicit drug anti-proliferation act – aka The Rave Act.
Making drug checking happen in as many places and forms as possible.
Stopping the criminalization of party-goers.
The DPA is launching a pilot study at a school in Brooklyn with more honest and accurate information about drugs.
She’s been working for the Drug Policy Alliance for almost 13 years.
Stefanie Jones develops materials that bring us closer to drug policy reform.
She works with two different audiences:
Parents and educators
Drug users at events and concerts.
Drug education for teenagers and parents goes back a long way at DPA.
Marsha Rosenbaum wrote a very famous letter to her son who was about to go into school.
She wrote a booklet called “Safety First.” A reality-based approach to teens and drugs.
Stefanie Jones put together a harm reduction-based curriculum to be taught in schools.
Stefanie Jones is director of audience development at the Drug Policy Alliance, based in New York. In this role she oversees communication and outreach to specific communities on drug use and drug policy topics, including on novel psychoactive substances (NPS) and DPA’s youth drug education work. She personally runs the Music Fan program, which introduces harm reduction principles and drug policy alternatives to partygoers, public health officials and city nightlife regulators across the U.S.
In her prior role within the organization as an event manager, she produced four progressively larger editions of the biennial International Drug Policy Reform Conference, as well as numerous local policy conferences, fundraisers and coalition-building meetings.
Leonie Joubert, a science writer, author, trainer and public speaker, joins Kyle Buller and Joe Moore to discuss psychedelic policy in South Africa. We discuss the promising avenues of improving policy around mushrooms, iboga and more. We also learn about South Africa wanting to be more involved in the psychedelic movement including research and medicalization.
About Leonie Joubert
Leonie uses different storytelling approaches to wander through the often unmapped terrain faced by all of us as we find ways to live together on an ever more tightly packed planet: climate, energy, environmental change, and hunger and malnutrition in the world of Big Food. Mostly, her stories try to give voice to a silenced environment, and the social injustices of a society where the divide between rich and poor has never been greater.
She has spent the better part of 15 years exploring these topics through books, journalism, communication’s support to academics and civil society organisations, and non-fiction creative writing.
Bibliography
Scorched: South Africa’s Changing Climate
Boiling Point: People in a Changing Climate
Invaded: the Biological Invasion of South Africa
The Hungry Season: Feeding Southern Africa’s Cities
Oranjezicht City Farm: Food, Community, Connection
She has also contributed a few book chapters, including:
Opinion Pieces by South African Thought Leaders, edited by Max du Preez (Penguin, 2011)
Bending the Curve, edited by Robert Zipplies (Africa Geographic, 2008)
Climate Governance in Africa – A Handbook for Journalists (IPS Africa and HBF, 2014), contributed an article.
We have an awesome time speaking with SSDP’s Drug Education Manager, Dr. Vilmarie Narloch. Vilmarie is making a big difference with drug safety in the US and internationally with SSDP’s education program ‘Just Say Know.’
During the show we discuss Vilmarie’s work with policy around the Good Samaritan laws and other impressive and impactful harm reduction projects. We also discuss some of the pressure from various elements in the government regressing rules, like some law enforcement offices refusing to use Narcannaloxone to help save the lives of people overdosing.
This episode is a dose of compassion and gives perspective about the different impacts from the drug war and prohibition.
If you are a student who wishes to get involved in drug policy work, please check out the work that SSDP is doing. If you do not have a chapter at your school or university, start one today!
Vilmarie also joins us in our course Navigating Psychedelics for a master class featuring harm reduction strategies and more. Be sure to sign up today to learn more from Vilmarie and many others!
About Students For Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP)
Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP) is the only international network of students dedicated to ending the war on drugs. At its heart, SSDP is a grassroots organization, led by a student-run Board of Directors. We create change by bringing young people together and creating safe spaces for students of all political and ideological stripes to have honest conversations about drugs and drug policy. Founded in 1998, SSDP is comprised of thousands of members at hundreds of campuses in countries around the globe.
About Just Say Know
Just Say Know is a series of drug education modules aimed at promoting open and honest dialogue around commonly used substances. The program aims to equip young people with harm reduction tools and skills as it relates to the specific substance, but can be applied to substance use generally.
Students for Sensible Drug Policy believes that students should be an overall part of any campus and community prevention and intervention strategy. Our SSDP Peer Education program seeks to empower students in our network to analyze the relationship between drug policy and drug use by providing evidence-based drug information, teaching students to recognize and address dangerous behaviors and unhealthy attitudes, and promoting prosocial and harm reduction oriented behaviors and attitudes.
Vilmarie Narloch, PsyD., is the Drug Education Manager at Students for Sensible Drug Policy. In this role, Vilmarie oversees the development and implementation of the SSDP Peer Education program, which is a training program for SSDP Members to become certified to deliver our drug education program, Just Say Know, to their peers. Vilmarie is passionate about reforming drug education in the U.S. and abroad, and has dedicated years of study on the topic for her dissertation. Vilmarie has taken on this position because as an organization driven by students with exceptional knowledge on drug policy and other drug use related issues, SSDP is uniquely positioned and qualified to be developing a drug education program. Additionally, Vilmarie educates staff and the network on the current state of research and treatment issues with regard to substance use disorders and mental health. Vilmarie aims to aid in the connection of policy and practice by helping our network understand the impact of policy on access to treatment and care while utilizing the latest research.
Vilmarie earned her M.A. in Counseling and Psychological Services from Saint. Mary’s University of Minnesota, and a Psy.D. in Clinical Psychology. During her time at Roosevelt, she was a graduate research assistant with Roosevelt University’s Illinois Consortium on Drug Policy. Her work at ICDP included research support, report co-authorship and event planning and coordination. Vilmarie’s interests in drug education, access to treatment, and harm reduction policy and practice have led her to numerous projects, including the provision of counseling and harm reduction services to students at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and DePaul University, serving as a member of the Chicago Consortium on College Alcohol Harm Reduction, a predoctoral internship in the Adult Behavioral Services department in a local public health department, and a postdoctoral fellowship in a small prviate agency, where she provided therapy for individuals, couples, families, and groups in addition to supervising interns. Additionally, Vilmarie has been an adjunct instructor teaching undergraduate and graduate courses in psychology and substance use disorder treatment. She has dedicated her studies and clinical work to advance Harm Reduction as the standard of practice for substance use disorders. In doing so, she has sought opportunities to educate others in her field about harm reduction, including her students. Vilmarie’s dissertation, titled, “What Youth Want: Developing a Drug Education Curriculum Based on Youth Guidance and Evidence-Based Principles,” inspired her to continue to advocate for effective drug education on a professional level, which led to her current position at SSDP. Additionally, Vilmarie’s next personal career goal is to become trained to deliver psychedelic psychotherapy, which she considers to be the future of psychological practice.
It is the week of the 4th of July. That means the United States is celebrating the signing of the Declaration of Independence, breaking free from the British Empire, and becoming an independent nation. With the holiday underway, it seems like a great time to reflect on the concept of freedom (including cognitive liberty) and what it means to each and every one of us.
In honor of Independence Day and the Declaration of Independence, here is a quote by Terence McKenna:
In this episode, Joe and Kyle reflect on the concept of personal freedom, cognitive liberty, and the impact that the War on Drugs has on the American people. It seems to be the consensus that the War on Drugs is failing. The policy has huge negative consequences on people across the globe, and significantly marginalizes minority groups and people of color.
Cognitive Liberty
As psychedelic research continues to progress in the academic and scientific realm, many people are still subjected to arrest and imprisonment because of this failed policy. Kyle and Joe share their thoughts about the pursuit for cognitive liberty and personal freedom.
The unexamined life is not worth living – Socrates
Do you think that exploring one’s own consciousness, whether through plants or other drugs, be illegal? Why should a person have to “ask permission” to have an experience with their own body, mind, and spirit?
We are giving away a SPECIAL offer just for the 4th of July! Receive 10% off our Earl-Bird special with the coupon code “freedom” when you check out. You do not want to miss this offer!
The MAPS Psychedelic Science 2017 conference was the largest psychedelic conference in history to date. It is an exciting time to be part of the movement and to get involved in the field. There is a push to legalize psychedelics for therapy and to recognize these substances as medicine. While the field needs the science and research to legitimize psychedelics as medicines to treat various disorders, but the change in status does not mean access for everyone. This is not to discourage the research or science, we acknowledge that it is important, but rather it is to help educate the public that the change in status does not mean psychedelics will be legal for recreational use.
There may be a misconception floating around that once MDMA or psilocybin becomes medicine there will be greater access. This is not entirely true according to Jag Davies. The criminalization of psychedelic substances will continue despite the health and clinical applications. Jag and the DPA strive to help move drug policy away from a criminalization approach and help to move it towards a more health-based approach.
In this episode, we talk with Jag Davies, Communication Strategy Director of the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA). Jag provides us with his insights about the current state of psychedelics, psychedelic research, and other drug laws. Jag also talks about his work with the DPA and what the DPA’s mission is. We discuss drug policy, advocacy, harm reduction, scheduling vs penalty, racism, and so much more.
One of the best things to do to get involved is to help spread the word about the healing potential of psychedelic medicines and substances. The policy around these substances are constantly changing and new issues are always arising. We talk a lot about privilege in this episode, and how being in a privileged position makes it easier to speak about experiences with psychedelics or other substances.
Another great way to get involved is connecting with the Drug Policy Alliance. There is a wonderful drug reform conference coming up and that is also a great way to get your foot in the door with this work. The Reform Conference is happening in Atlanta, Georgia, from October 11th-14th. If you do not think you can attend, try applying for the scholarship, which ends June 9th.
About the Drug Policy Alliance
The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) is the nation’s leading organization promoting drug policies that are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights.
Our supporters are individuals who believe the war on drugs is doing more harm than good. Together we advance policies that reduce the harms of both drug use and drug prohibition, and seek solutions that promote safety while upholding the sovereignty of individuals over their own minds and bodies. We work to ensure that our nation’s drug policies no longer arrest, incarcerate, disenfranchise and otherwise harm millions – particularly young people and people of color who are disproportionately affected by the war on drugs.
Mission and Vision of the Drug Policy Alliance
The Drug Policy Allianceenvisions a just society in which the use and regulation of drugs are grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights, in which people are no longer punished for what they put into their own bodies but only for crimes committed against others, and in which the fears, prejudices and punitive prohibitions of today are no more.
Our mission is to advance those policies and attitudes that best reduce the harms of both drug use and drug prohibition, and to promote the sovereignty of individuals over their minds and bodies.
As director of communications strategy, Jag Davies works with communications, program, development and senior management staff to oversee production of all DPA publications and to facilitate best practices in the implementation of the organization’s messaging and brand identity. Davies manages a team that includes DPA’s research coordinator and communications coordinator, as well as external consultant relationships with writers, designers, and multimedia content producers.
Davies also plays a key role in DPA’s media work. He is regularly quoted in a wide range of media outlets and his writings have appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, BBC.com, CNN.com, and dozens of regional and online publications.
Davies has more than a decade of professional experience working to establish drug policies grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights. Before joining the organization, he served as director of communications for MAPS, a nonprofit pharmaceutical company conducting clinical trials aimed at developing marijuana and certain psychedelic drugs into federally-approved prescription medicines. Davies also previously served as policy researcher for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) Drug Law Reform Project (now known as the Criminal Law Reform Project), where he coordinated local, state, federal, and international efforts to end punitive drug policies that cause the widespread violation of constitutional and human rights.
“Through my lens, so many problems in this world are driven by people acting from a reactionary place of fear and pain instead of from a place of compassion or love.” – Natalie Ginsberg
Joe and Kyle spoke with Natalie Ginsberg, Policy and Advocacy Manager at Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Natalie provides us with a summary on facets of the current state of global drug policy. She also discusses the role of racism and privilege in the psychedelic community in America. The following is an excerpt from our interview.
Edited by: Alyssa Gursky
Natalie: This past year, the UN General Assembly met for the first time in 20 years to revisit international drug treaties. A special session was called on the world drug problem. There were a series of different meetings. Vienna hosts something called the, Commission on Narcotic Drugs, every year. First, there is a big gathering in Vienna where reformers, non-reformers, and people working both from civil society on drug policy come to meet with delegates from around the world and educate them.
They tried to move drug policy from a criminalization approach to a more public health and harm reduction kind of approach.That was also pretty inspiring, and it was definitely a bit frustrating in terms of progress.We would’ve liked the outcome document to reflect much more progressive drug policy stances, but they’re very influenced by countries like Russia and China, who are really not open to the harm reduction approaches at all.
Being there, you meet so many global representatives. For example, the so-called drug czar, but he doesn’t like that name. The National Drug Coordinator of Czech Republic, for example, is really supportive of psychedelic advocacy and was able to host a lot of more innovative, progressive events. The Colombian health minister gave a really powerful speech on the floor of the United Nations (UN), basically saying the drug war… using that Einstein quote, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.” It was really epic for the minister from Columbia to be saying that to the whole UN.
Overall, for me, what was so, so valuable was really this coming together of the international reform community. Now, I work super-closely with advocates from Afghanistan, Mexico, and Nigeria. We’re much more in the same loop of what’s going on and learning about how we’re doing work in different countries is important because the UN is a really slow body that is quite reactionary, and it’s really driven forward by individual countries’ progress. The more we can support individual countries moving forward, the better chance we have for them to kind of influence the UN later.
Joe: Are there any star countries that you noticed that are really doing stuff that might not be on the radar yet?
Natalie: Bolivia actually legalized coca leaves and has done some really important work around protecting cultural indigenous plant medicines, like promoting the traditional use of these substances.
As I mentioned, the Czech Republic is really, I’d say, the leader on all things psychedelic that are not traditional, indigenous use. I would also say that even though Portugal gets a lot of attention for decriminalizing drugs, they actually weren’t the first place to do that. The Czech Republic has been decriminalizing drugs longer than Portugal, as has Spain. Portugal received a great deal of attention because they did it in response to a big opiate crisis. There’s some incredible results to show how dramatically things have shifted, but other countries have kind of taken that stance for a while, so there isn’t as much of a shift. But, they do have really promising results from not having a crazy drug war.
Spain is also really cool because of their cannabis social clubs. I was lucky to spend a few weeks in Barcelona this fall. They have these incredible spaces that basically was like a mix between coffee shop, co-worker space, maybe a little bar worked in there — just like a community space where you can go and become a club member.
Also, keep an eye on Colombia. When Ismail and I, my colleague from the policy team, were at the UN, we spoke to the Colombian health minister about MDMA therapy. He said, “Yeah, that sounds really promising.” I’m optimistic about that. They’re kind of still in the process of reforming their drug policies, and though they haven’t made as dramatic of strides as the other countries, a lot of the ministers and people doing work in Colombia are a lot more conscious. They see all of the horrible impacts of the drug war on their country and want to improve it. I think they will continue to do this work and lead some reform in South America.
Then also of course Canada is leading the way in so many ways on the drug policy front. From legalizing cannabis to really strongly supporting harm-reduction measures in response to opiate crises. I think Canada is going to be the leader on drug policy reform, and probably on a lot of other policies as well.
Joe: What else is going on in your world? Are you projected a couple years out to be working on some other interesting projects, or what do you see happening?
Natalie: I can speak about something that’s really near to my heart. In context of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, we are working to develop a study that would be focused on racial trauma, or PTSD from racism. We are working on another focusing on PTSD in trans communities as well. I’m really interested in talking about how social injustice can manifest in an individual as PTSD. I think that’s going to be a really important conversation.
Anti-racist work within the psychedelic community is really important. A lot of people I know are these peace-loving, hippie types who have really beautiful ideals, but don’t necessarily know the details or the reality of certain situations. I’ve heard from so many amazing, well-intentioned people in this community, “I don’t see race. All people are the same.” I think the concept is beautiful and well-intentioned, but that’s also really ignoring the experience of people of color in this country.
Unfortunately, police officers do see race. Breaking that conversation open I think is immensely important. If we’re a community that really talks about healing and working in solidarity with other social justice movements, I think that is really essential. I have seen more and more progress on that front, but I just want to definitely flag that because I think we have a lot of room to improve in that space.
Joe: What does that look like to you? How could we heal a bit? I know the research itself is very white, really kind of bland, but in terms of diversity, how do we heal that? What do you see?
Natalie: Yes, the research is quite white, unfortunately. This study focusing on racial trauma, we’re working with Dr. Monica Williams in process, but she’s a leading researcher on PTSD from racism. Working with experts and therapists of color to do outreach to their own communities. We have to work with communities and not just go in and be like, “Why don’t you come into our space?” We have to be willing to meet people where they are and really listen, and hear what different communities need from us and how we can best work with them. I think really the best way, when you ask how can we heal, it’s really we as white, psychedelic enthusiasts need to do our own work We need to do our own reading and need to start asking questions. And not questions just of people of color, and asking them to do this emotional labor for us, but maybe other white people who are doing this work who might be able to help support this process.
It’s a really long, difficult process that requires a lot of self-reflection, which is why I think there’s so much potential in our psychedelic community.We’re a community so focused on being conscious and self-reflection. All of these things that are essential to understanding racial consciousness, and the impact of racism on white people. There’s a lot of hugely harmful impacts of racism in white people, the way that sexism deeply harms men in patriarchy. I think it’s really important that we are doing some of our own work. That is a difficult process but a healing one, The more conscious we are of things, I believe that is really a way to move towards healing.
Returning war veterans are incredibly traumatized and don’t have adequate support, but yet compared to someone living in a poor, black neighborhood in Atlanta … There was a study that returning war veterans had way lower rates of PTSD than people living in this community. These people are also underdiagnosed, and don’t have the resources that even… It’s just interesting context because certainly, we dramatically need to improve our support for veterans as well, but even just stepping back and seeing that there’s so many people suffering from PTSD who have no access, or no even language to understand what they’re going through.
Kyle: Do you have any last-minute advice for students or anyone that is interested in getting involved with policy work? Because now, maybe, with this fear of the new administration taking over, we don’t really know what the climate is going to look like.
Natalie: In this political climate, it’s more important than ever to do work also outside of the so-called direct political system. Advocacy even means talking to your family or friends, creating a cultural space to support this political work is the most important thing we can do. This ties back into the conversation about the whiteness and privilege of the psychedelic space. I totally understand that there are such a span of people who are able to speak openly about this in certain contexts. You can be at risk for losing your job, your children, and certainly people of color are far higher risk for being arrested for drugs or things like that. I think that’s a really powerful part of recognizing being conscious of your privilege in this community — if you feel safe enough to speak in certain communities and speak out, that it’s super-important to do that and use that privilege to move the conversation forward. There’s so many ways for people to get involved. MAPS alone has a million volunteer opportunities, or we’ll help you host a global psychedelic dinner if you want help inviting people in your community, and having things to talk about. I encourage people also to just think of whatever they’re most passionate about and do that, and see how psychedelics can intersect with that, and how they can speak in their space.
Check out the full audio interview with Natalie Ginsberg here.
Transcribed by: Rev.com
About Natalie Ginsberg
Natalie earned her Master’s in Social Work from Columbia University in 2014, and her Bachelor’s in History from Yale University in 2011. At Columbia, Natalie served as a Policy Fellow at the Drug Policy Alliance, where she helped legalize medical marijuana in her home state of New York, and worked to end New York’s racist marijuana arrests. Natalie has also worked as a court-mandated therapist for individuals arrested for prostitution and drug-related offenses, and as a middle school guidance counselor at an NYC public school. Natalie’s clinical work with trauma survivors spurred her interest in psychedelic-assisted therapy, which she believes can ease a wide variety of both mental and physical ailments by addressing the root cause of individuals’ difficulties, rather than their symptoms. Through her work at MAPS, Natalie advocates for research to provide evidence-based alternatives to both the war on drugs and the current mental health paradigm.
Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle chat with Ed Liu of the podcast, Psychedelic Milk. It has been great to connect with other folks that host podcasts, and are doing whatever they can to spread the message about psychedelics and the psychedelic movement. We really enjoyed talking with Ed and appreciated his honesty as well as the conversations he is bringing to the field.
PsychedelicMilk.com is an independent media collective that takes a deeper look into the world of psychedelics through interviews and discussions. Our mission is to bring more awareness and understanding to alternative medicine and different ways of thinking to our our audiences through young and exciting ways. Psychedelic Milk also aims to investigate old and new consciousness opening technologies to see what roles they can play in our modern world. We believe psychedelic technologies are not just limited to plant medicines, but can be accessed through meditation, movement, knowledge, and many more. If you like the podcast, leave us a review on iTunes! (will help us tremendously)
About Ed Liu
Ed Liu is a podcast host and a music producer – previously charted on the Beatport Top 100. He is currently the host of the Psychedelic Milk podcast, a long form conversational interview with interesting and influential guests from all over the world to discuss topics of consciousness, psychedelics, and new emerging technologies.
Download Joe and Kyle talk to Shannon Clare Petitt about the current state of MDMA research and what MAPS needs to do in the next number of months with the FDA as the phase three trials become approved. A few days after the interview the New York Times reported that the phase three research was approved. Shannon’s story is great and optimistic. If you are interested in how to get a job in the psychedelic field, this is certainly an episode you’ll want to listen to. We also discuss some possible tweaks to the studies that could be done that may yield interesting results, and also why MAPS is taking the approach that they are (its the most straightforward way to push the research through the FDA). Continue reading “Shannon Clare Petitt – MAPS, Zendo and an update on MDMA’s status”
Keeping Tabs
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Vilmarie Narloch, PsyD., is the Drug Education Manager at Students for Sensible Drug Policy. In this role, Vilmarie oversees the development and implementation of the SSDP Peer Education program, which is a training program for SSDP Members to become certified to deliver our drug education program, Just Say Know, to their peers. Vilmarie is passionate about reforming drug education in the U.S. and abroad, and has dedicated years of study on the topic for her dissertation. Vilmarie has taken on this position because as an organization driven by students with exceptional knowledge on drug policy and other drug use related issues, SSDP is uniquely positioned and qualified to be developing a drug education program. Additionally, Vilmarie educates staff and the network on the current state of research and treatment issues with regard to substance use disorders and mental health. Vilmarie aims to aid in the connection of policy and practice by helping our network understand the impact of policy on access to treatment and care while utilizing the latest research.
talie earned her Master’s in Social Work from Columbia University in 2014, and her Bachelor’s in History from Yale University in 2011. At Columbia, Natalie served as a Policy Fellow at the Drug Policy Alliance, where she helped legalize medical marijuana in her home state of New York, and worked to end New York’s racist marijuana arrests. Natalie has also worked as a court-mandated therapist for individuals arrested for prostitution and drug-related offenses, and as a middle school guidance counselor at an NYC public school. Natalie’s clinical work with trauma survivors spurred her interest in psychedelic-assisted therapy, which she believes can ease a wide variety of both mental and physical ailments by addressing the root cause of individuals’ difficulties, rather than their symptoms. Through her work at MAPS, Natalie advocates for research to provide evidence-based alternatives to both the war on drugs and the current mental health paradigm.
