PT298 – Michael Sapiro, PsyD – Vital Psychedelic Conversations

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Michael Sapiro, PsyD: clinical psychologist, writer, meditation researcher, integrative coach, former Buddhist monk, Vital teacher, and now 3-time podcast guest. 

They begin with what he feels is the most vital conversation we should be having now, then he discusses the idea of bringing psychedelics to prisons; his mental time travel work with The Institute for Love and Time (TILT); building an ecosystem where those with means pay full price to enable those with less money a discount; rebuilding trust in the medical community; and the difference between a diploma and real-world experience and proper training. 

And he talks about the mystical experience, working with clients, and education: how so much more training is necessary than people realize, and how so much of the true education is learning how to vocalize an internal experience (and then integrating the positive aspects into everyday life). He talks about the complicated dynamics involved in what many see as a fantasy career; how he knows when to intervene; how he views “doing your own work”; whether or not the work can be gentle or joyous; the idea of joking during a session; his work with combat veterans and the intensity of 5-MeO-DMT; mainstreaming mysticism; and trusting that the universe has our backs. 

Notable Quotes

“We want people to have real, internal experiences that they’re aware of and they can vocalize, and that is the actual education; not just the knowledge I’m giving them about what this drug does to the brain or how you identify something. It’s really: What is alive in you, how do you identify what’s alive in you, how do you use it in real time, and then how do you navigate those circumstances and change and grow? That’s the real learning process.” 

“The mystical experience is a present moment experience where the universe unfolds in front, within, and around you, and then we integrate that into our human self. So Mike gets this amazing introduction to the universe through an experience and then it comes in and becomes insight and knowledge, and then hopefully practical application. So that’s where I think, in the end, we actually transform; is when that knowledge becomes integrated into the fabric of our own being [and] into our personality, and now Mike and the universe are more melded.”

“Zen is serious until you learn the universe is playful, and then you get to be kind of playful with it.” 

“My hope is that all of us touch on the unconditional love that’s here for us, within us. And once you touch that, you can’t not offer it. You can’t not take care of other things. …This work gives us access to what’s already fundamentally true, and helps us bridge that with everything else.”


Psychedelics Today: PT214 – Dr. Michael Sapiro – Engaged Spirituality: Bringing the Mystical Into the Ordinary

Psychedelics Today: Dr. Michael Sapiro – How Meditation, Mindfulness and the Psychedelic Experience Relate (TILT: The Institute for Love and Time) Mental Time Travel? A Neurocognitive Model of Event Simulation

Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action, by Simon Sinek

About Michael Sapiro, PsyD

Michael Sapiro, PsyD, is a clinical psychologist, writer, meditation researcher, and former Buddhist monk. He is on faculty at Esalen Institute, is a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and is completing a study on time travel, hope, and love with Dr. Julia Mossbridge of The Institute for Love and Time. Dr. Sapiro teaches nationally on the art and science of transformation, expanded human capabilities, and futuremaking. He is the integrative psychologist at the Boise Ketamine Clinic where he offers Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy (KAP and KAT) sessions, and is an integrative coach with VETS, helping former Navy Seals and other special operations team members recover from combat exposure with psychedelic-assisted therapy. He hosts a syndicated radio program called Radio Awakened out of KRBX. His work is dedicated to personal awakening for the sake of collective and planetary transformation. He can be found at

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