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During this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle Buller interviews Dr. Richard Grossman, an ayahuasca ceremony facilitator and expert with a background in healing and acupuncture.

Episode Quotes

• I find mystical poetry to be an amazing aid in ceremony work.
• Is it the vision or the emotion that you feel and then the vision comes?
• In my work, the psychedelic experience is about going beyond the visionary state.
• The core of all creation is in the heart and breath.

Show Notes

• About Dr. Richard Grossman
  • Has a long background in healing.
  • He used to be a macrobiotic chef.
  • Primeval meditations and licensed acupuncturist.
  • Works with ayahuasca and San Pedro.
• How did Richard get involved in ayahuasca?
  • A friend brought some up from Peru and his life changed in one night.
  • It took him years as an acupuncturist learning more about healing.
  • He’s been doing this for about thirty years.
• Do you integrate your acupuncture practice into ceremony?
  • Not so much with ayahuasca – that’s done traditionally.
  • He had a lot of experience with the Shipibo Tradition.
  • With the San Pedro method, the body change happens in one day.
• Opinions on psychedelic visions.
  • Many people want them and they’re a distraction.
  • The real thing is that the source of everything is within.
  • If a person can experience that for an instant, their life changes.
  • There are a lot of things happening on subtle levels.
  • The psychonaut and healing processes are quite different.
• What are some examples of ideas you’ve seen in the psychedelic community?
  • People trying to draw in gods and goddesses.
  • You need to see how deep a human being can go, it’s an infinite journey.
• What is it like to go deeper and deeper?
  • If you can imagine a series of curtains parting over and over and over again.
  • You begin to see places of illusion.
  • During one of his trips, he visualized himself in a Nazi concentration camp.
    • A voice told him to trust and forgive.
    • He began to question what forgiveness and trust mean.
  • Some people are seeking spirituality and not really healing within.
    • Ayahuasca tourism is a fairly good thing, rather than people coming and ruining the jungle.
  • How would you define a healing process?
    • It’s a complex subject, he likes the idea of a series of concentric circles.
  • Do you work with a person’s energy?
    • People get very relaxed.
    • If there is someone who can’t get relax he calms them with acupuncture.
  • Do you think intoxicants affects the chi?
    • San Pedro or ayahuasca are not considered intoxicants.
    • He sees that ayahuasca is only good for the body.
    • Psilocybin has a rough effect on the liver.
    • The tannins in ayahuasca are valuable and bind toxins in the body.
  • Do you have to worry about any cardiovascular problems?
    • It is a stimulant so he screens people before doing the ceremony.
    • Beauty is a healing process, beauty heals.
  • Is there anything you’re excited about in the psychedelic world?
    • When the community comes together to heal it’s powerful.
    • We’re all going to a place of more love, peace, joy, and healing.
    • What’s the outcome of thousands of people experiencing love and joy?
  • What’s the ayahuasca ceremony structure?
    • Constant music, keeping things from going totally wonky.
    • There’s a point in the ceremony that it could go in either direction:
      • Total group insanity or total group healing.
    • Iowaska ceremonies can be dangerous.
      • It’s something to be respected with its own spirit.
    • You must hold close to the traditions of generations.
    • There’s always a point during the ceremony where he feels it’s the most important and beautiful place he’s ever been.
    • Drama’s not necessary, our culture wants the drama.
    • We need to outgrow externalizing the blame.
    • Life in our heart is meant to be enjoyed.
    • Suffering to heal just doesn’t work.
  • Culture seems to dwell on suffering, is that conditioning?
    • The worst thing a human can possibly do is feeling guilty.
      • “Guilt can’t fly and God wants you to fly.”
    • The nature of reality is joy and love.
    • You need to be willing to let go of the things that don’t work.
    • Psychedelics can be used as a guiding light.
  • Any final advice, events?
    • Find him on his website or on Facebook.
    • Heartfeather.com – Dr. Richard Grossman’s website.
    • Don’t stop, just keep going.

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About Richard Grossman, L.AC., O.M.D., Ph.D.

Richard Grossman studied Oriental Medicine at the California Acupuncture College in Los Angeles and received his post-graduate acupuncture training in Beijing, in a course sponsored by the World Health Organization and attended by physicians from around the world. He earned a Masters in Acupuncture, a Doctor of Oriental Medicine degree, a Ph.D. in Oriental Medicine, a Diplomat in Acupuncture, a Diplomat of Pain Management, and a Diplomat in Acupuncture Orthopedics.